Re: $200 OTTER
> What would it take for plans for prefabricated, "flatStudy Plan:
> pack", "instant boat" hull construction to be developed?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger_study_plans_only/files/OTTER%20%
23231/
Some time ago (2003!) I was directed ask Dave Carnell a similar
question about the original OTTER I was interested in. He was gracious
enough to reply saying he had indeed built an _OTTER II_.
He said it was a good sailer!
Dave said he had hoped that OTTER II would be a trailerable sailboat.
Dave said he found it too heavy and difficult to rig for that. He said
PCB told him that the other two prototype builders swamped their boats,
so Dave built flotation into the cockpit, but never had real problems.
He said by the time he had water coming over the gunwale the rig dumped
its wind.
Dave said he found it was terribly cramped for two to cruise aboard.
He used it for ten years till the worms ate through the bottom and sank
her at her mooring.
I would suggest you'd need to consider Dave's definition
of "trailerable", "heavy", and "difficult to rig" bearing in mind that
it was Dave who designed the lighter, simpler $200 SAILBOAT. The boat
may be less cramped for smaller people, I don't know Dave's size. The
plans Dave had may also have been for a prototype model, I don't know.
That he used it for ten years, had no capsise trouble, and said it was
a good sailer speaks volumes.
A deep cockpit version of WISH II? Now, that could be very interesting
too!!
Graeme
question about the original OTTER I was interested in. He was gracious
enough to reply saying he had indeed built an _OTTER II_.
He said it was a good sailer!
Dave said he had hoped that OTTER II would be a trailerable sailboat.
Dave said he found it too heavy and difficult to rig for that. He said
PCB told him that the other two prototype builders swamped their boats,
so Dave built flotation into the cockpit, but never had real problems.
He said by the time he had water coming over the gunwale the rig dumped
its wind.
Dave said he found it was terribly cramped for two to cruise aboard.
He used it for ten years till the worms ate through the bottom and sank
her at her mooring.
I would suggest you'd need to consider Dave's definition
of "trailerable", "heavy", and "difficult to rig" bearing in mind that
it was Dave who designed the lighter, simpler $200 SAILBOAT. The boat
may be less cramped for smaller people, I don't know Dave's size. The
plans Dave had may also have been for a prototype model, I don't know.
That he used it for ten years, had no capsise trouble, and said it was
a good sailer speaks volumes.
A deep cockpit version of WISH II? Now, that could be very interesting
too!!
Graeme
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "pvanderwaart" <pvanderwaart@...> wrote:
>
> > Does anyone know if the Otter II from "Different Boats" has
> > been built? Does Bolger still sell plans?
>
> Bolger wrote some comments in the late, lamented Small Boat Journal to
> the effect that at least one boat had been built and that it was
> tender until ballast was added. Bolger does still sell plans, but he
> might well try to talk you into a different design. (Maybe not) For
> example, he designed a version of the 20' Wish II with a deep cockpit
> that a man and his daughter took down the Mississippi. And of course,
> he's very proud of Birdwatcher.
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "pvanderwaart" <pvanderwaart@...>
wrote:
justified. At the same time, the Otter II is a great looking
boat, light, trailerable and so forth.
I should have done more research before I posted the question.
There was a two part article in MAIB, Volume 24, #3 and #4
May and June of 2006, about Otter II and a suggestion for
an Otter III with sketches which are interesting without
being actual working plans. He suggested at the time that
he would include the sketches if someone ordered Otter II plans
and they would do more work on them when and if they got the
time, a familiar story for them lately and understandable.
Dave Carnell then did a one page write up of his Otter II in
MAIB Vol. 24, #10 in Oct. 2006. Mr Carnell seemed to be happy
with the boat, he did deck over the forward well after he had
to bail it out, and he didn't like stepping the mast. Carnell
thought that Otter III would take care of some of this with
a tabernacle and so forth.
Both Bolger and Carnell discussed the stability problem with
a knockdown of this boat. It would seem that with foam, which
Bolger recomends, and a water tight cuddy, the boat wouldn't be
unreasonable in this regard if you don't head towards blue water
in it. Carnell said he underestimated the worms in the Eastern
Intercoastal and had to replace the bottom.
I'm mostly a lake sailer and I need a trailer sailor so I'm looking
at it.
Charles Rouse
wrote:
>Journal to
> > Does anyone know if the Otter II from "Different Boats" has
> > been built? Does Bolger still sell plans?
>
> Bolger wrote some comments in the late, lamented Small Boat
> the effect that at least one boat had been built and that it washe
> tender until ballast was added. Bolger does still sell plans, but
> might well try to talk you into a different design. (Maybe not) Forcockpit
> example, he designed a version of the 20' Wish II with a deep
> that a man and his daughter took down the Mississippi. And ofcourse,
> he's very proud of Birdwatcher.I think his high regard for the Birdwatcher is entirely
>
justified. At the same time, the Otter II is a great looking
boat, light, trailerable and so forth.
I should have done more research before I posted the question.
There was a two part article in MAIB, Volume 24, #3 and #4
May and June of 2006, about Otter II and a suggestion for
an Otter III with sketches which are interesting without
being actual working plans. He suggested at the time that
he would include the sketches if someone ordered Otter II plans
and they would do more work on them when and if they got the
time, a familiar story for them lately and understandable.
Dave Carnell then did a one page write up of his Otter II in
MAIB Vol. 24, #10 in Oct. 2006. Mr Carnell seemed to be happy
with the boat, he did deck over the forward well after he had
to bail it out, and he didn't like stepping the mast. Carnell
thought that Otter III would take care of some of this with
a tabernacle and so forth.
Both Bolger and Carnell discussed the stability problem with
a knockdown of this boat. It would seem that with foam, which
Bolger recomends, and a water tight cuddy, the boat wouldn't be
unreasonable in this regard if you don't head towards blue water
in it. Carnell said he underestimated the worms in the Eastern
Intercoastal and had to replace the bottom.
I'm mostly a lake sailer and I need a trailer sailor so I'm looking
at it.
Charles Rouse
> Does anyone know if the Otter II from "Different Boats" hasBolger wrote some comments in the late, lamented Small Boat Journal to
> been built? Does Bolger still sell plans?
the effect that at least one boat had been built and that it was
tender until ballast was added. Bolger does still sell plans, but he
might well try to talk you into a different design. (Maybe not) For
example, he designed a version of the 20' Wish II with a deep cockpit
that a man and his daughter took down the Mississippi. And of course,
he's very proud of Birdwatcher.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
wrote:
Does anyone know if the Otter II from "Different Boats" has
been built? Does Bolger still sell plans?
Charles Rouse
wrote:
Does anyone know if the Otter II from "Different Boats" has
been built? Does Bolger still sell plans?
Charles Rouse
>
> Hi,
>
> PCB wrote the only problem with OTTER, that had proven to sail
> really well, was in his early type of "cut and fit" plans. He wrote
> he wished he could get those plans back!
>
Hi,
PCB wrote the only problem with OTTER, that had proven to sail
really well, was in his early type of "cut and fit" plans. He wrote
he wished he could get those plans back!
"FEATHERWIND" was already designed for assembling prefabricated
pieces like an early "instant boat", yet Dave Carnel produced plans
for more simplified construction and with Bolger's approval sold
plans for the $200 SAIL BOAT. Those plans are now available as the
NUTMEG.
Jim Michalak's mate, Jim Huxford, built and sailed an OTTER in the
late 1980's to early 1990's and it seems that it is the only one
there are a few photos of.
Probably after the 1960's to early 1970's there have been very few
OTTERs built, and that's a shame. Everyone says what a nice looking
boat it is, and we know from Bolger himself, and Jim Michalak, that
it proved a good boat in practice (even if JM says cabin space is a
bit too low).
Similar to designs like BLACK SKIMMER this boat has got "it"!
Unlike BLACK SKIMMER the construction method is almost traditional,
and I think that is what prevents millions and millions of OTTERs
being built!
What would it take for plans for prefabricated, "flat
pack", "instant boat" hull construction to be developed?
I reckon they would sell, and a reasonable number of those plans
sales would end in built boats.
OTOH - if the boat was built from the original plans could it be
done more "instant boat" style, without the need for such an
involved building jig, and "cutting and fitting", if stitch and tape
construction was used. Stitch and tape allows a lot more tolerance
in the fitting together of pieces. It was those tolerances that
Bolger was not sure of and warned against. I think that the $200
SAIL BOAT is also for stitch and tape construction.
Cheers
Graeme
PS. As19 on the same length, but bigger, continues to grow on me,
but I am absolutely certain I would build an OTTER if the
construction were as easy. Proportional to the cube of the length
the OTTER has about only double as much material in it as a
FEATHERWIND. Apart from cartopping it would be just as easy to get
on the water, but would have much more than double the capability,
for more than doubling the waters that could be sailed on as OTTER
was designed to cope well with rough water, and has cabin, etc.
PCB wrote the only problem with OTTER, that had proven to sail
really well, was in his early type of "cut and fit" plans. He wrote
he wished he could get those plans back!
"FEATHERWIND" was already designed for assembling prefabricated
pieces like an early "instant boat", yet Dave Carnel produced plans
for more simplified construction and with Bolger's approval sold
plans for the $200 SAIL BOAT. Those plans are now available as the
NUTMEG.
Jim Michalak's mate, Jim Huxford, built and sailed an OTTER in the
late 1980's to early 1990's and it seems that it is the only one
there are a few photos of.
Probably after the 1960's to early 1970's there have been very few
OTTERs built, and that's a shame. Everyone says what a nice looking
boat it is, and we know from Bolger himself, and Jim Michalak, that
it proved a good boat in practice (even if JM says cabin space is a
bit too low).
Similar to designs like BLACK SKIMMER this boat has got "it"!
Unlike BLACK SKIMMER the construction method is almost traditional,
and I think that is what prevents millions and millions of OTTERs
being built!
What would it take for plans for prefabricated, "flat
pack", "instant boat" hull construction to be developed?
I reckon they would sell, and a reasonable number of those plans
sales would end in built boats.
OTOH - if the boat was built from the original plans could it be
done more "instant boat" style, without the need for such an
involved building jig, and "cutting and fitting", if stitch and tape
construction was used. Stitch and tape allows a lot more tolerance
in the fitting together of pieces. It was those tolerances that
Bolger was not sure of and warned against. I think that the $200
SAIL BOAT is also for stitch and tape construction.
Cheers
Graeme
PS. As19 on the same length, but bigger, continues to grow on me,
but I am absolutely certain I would build an OTTER if the
construction were as easy. Proportional to the cube of the length
the OTTER has about only double as much material in it as a
FEATHERWIND. Apart from cartopping it would be just as easy to get
on the water, but would have much more than double the capability,
for more than doubling the waters that could be sailed on as OTTER
was designed to cope well with rough water, and has cabin, etc.