Re: alternative boat glue for epoxy allergy???
Or,in the case of the replica 'Cuckoo' Chesterfield
canal narrowboat that the society will be constructing
in about 12 months time(we're waiting for the wood to
season),turpentine,boiled linseed oil and horse
manure.The carpenter who will be building the 70ft
boat specified grain,not grass fed horses to provide
the last item.Incidentally,as far as I
know,Chesterfield Cuckoos were the only narrow boats
to be sailed.Leeboards were available but not
generally used on the river Trent(the canal linked
Chesterfield to the Trent)although in later years
usual practise was to get a tow from one of the Trent
tugs,as did the Humber keels.However they occasionally
penetrated as far as the wash,which involved coastal
sailing,and leeboards were used for that.Which makes
me think that PCB should have specified detachable
leeboards on Weston Martyr and not the bigeboard used
cheers
Andy Airey
Send instant messages to your online friendshttp://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
canal narrowboat that the society will be constructing
in about 12 months time(we're waiting for the wood to
season),turpentine,boiled linseed oil and horse
manure.The carpenter who will be building the 70ft
boat specified grain,not grass fed horses to provide
the last item.Incidentally,as far as I
know,Chesterfield Cuckoos were the only narrow boats
to be sailed.Leeboards were available but not
generally used on the river Trent(the canal linked
Chesterfield to the Trent)although in later years
usual practise was to get a tow from one of the Trent
tugs,as did the Humber keels.However they occasionally
penetrated as far as the wash,which involved coastal
sailing,and leeboards were used for that.Which makes
me think that PCB should have specified detachable
leeboards on Weston Martyr and not the bigeboard used
cheers
Andy Airey
Send instant messages to your online friendshttp://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
On 10/6/07, Robb <Robb@...> wrote:
which is still holding up after a decade. Regardless, I have switched
now entirely to epoxy glue because it is so excellent and cheap. I
use gloves and entirely avoid skin contact, and work with good
ventilation in my shop (one wall is missing!)
There is one condition where Gorilla Glue is much superior to epoxy:
that is when working outdoors in the rain, and/or with 'green' wet
wood.
>I used a (Gorilla Glue type) polyurethane glue on my Bolger Spur II,
>
> Hmmmmmm......this is the first time I've ever heard anything negative about gorilla glue.
which is still holding up after a decade. Regardless, I have switched
now entirely to epoxy glue because it is so excellent and cheap. I
use gloves and entirely avoid skin contact, and work with good
ventilation in my shop (one wall is missing!)
There is one condition where Gorilla Glue is much superior to epoxy:
that is when working outdoors in the rain, and/or with 'green' wet
wood.
Proper prep of all woods before gluing is sanding. This is the one
mistake most people make the other is to not coat both surfaces befor
putting tigather. The first causes poor bond surface the second glue
starvation. Both mistakes lead to week glue joints in area of stress.
Proper prep helps prevent shear failures. Dried woods be it kilm
dried or seasond have closed cells on the surface sanding opens it up
for the glue to soak in for better bond.
Jon
mistake most people make the other is to not coat both surfaces befor
putting tigather. The first causes poor bond surface the second glue
starvation. Both mistakes lead to week glue joints in area of stress.
Proper prep helps prevent shear failures. Dried woods be it kilm
dried or seasond have closed cells on the surface sanding opens it up
for the glue to soak in for better bond.
Jon
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Slimak" <otter55806@...> wrote:
>
> One more post on resorcinol and epoxy
>
> I first used epoxy as a child around 1959 or 60, thereabouts. It
was
> not on the market to everyone, but my Dad was the supervisor of the
> research machine shop for Bemis company, making prototype machines
> for the plastic industry. I also had plastic bags when no one know
> what they were. Who knew what a mess for the environment plastics
> would turn out to be! Anyway, decades later when I was building my
> Bruce Roberts Spray, and had an both epoxy joints fail on 7 inch
high
> in a place where they were subjuect to high shear loads, I asked
him
> about it and he said the lab guys say epoxy is great except for
> shear. I'm sure epoxy has improved a lot since then, but not
wanting
> to take a chance on my wood mast I went back to resorcinol. The
> reason for this was that, before WWII my Dad worked as a machinest
> for General Dairy. They made the huge blades for the churns from
> oak, lamimated with resorcinal into a large plank, about 6" X 12" I
> seem to recall. Then they put this laminated piece into a huge
> steambox where it was twisted to make the churn blades, paddles,
> whatever they called them. Any glue that can survive that can be
> trusted.
> I, of course, do use epoxy because I am too impatient to try to
make
> the perfect joints necessary when I don't have thousands of dollars
> worth of joiners, planers, etc. to make such joints. Remember,
> before epoxy a GOOD glue joint was expected to be .oo5 inches,
> something not possible with my $89.95 table saw from Menards:(
>
> Bob
>
> PS - My Spray is still around the area, and the mast is still good
> after 23 years.
>
> -- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "bill shamblin" <bshamblin2002@>
> wrote:
> >
> > thanks everyone! this is the information i needed.
> >
> > bill in nc
> >
> >
> >
> > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "David" <arbordg@> wrote:
> > >
> > > It was Fine WW, I believe. They tested both "good" joints
> > and "sloppy"
> > > joints. The Titebond III did, indeed, come out ahead of the
tested
> > > group - which included Gorilla Glue, but did not, IIRC, include
> > either
> > > resorcinol or plastic resin glue. I might also note that the
epoxy
> > > tested was not one I was experienced with. I'm not sure it was
> > > representative of those typically used for boatbuilding, but
> > probably
> > > it was close enough.
> > >
> > > I like Titebond III, and - as a professional woodworker - have
> been
> > > using it increasingly. However, if I remember the article
> > correctly,
> > > they did not address the issues of repairability, or
> reversibility,
> > > neither of which are good traits for T III.
> > >
> > > Repairability is whether an adhesive will glue to itself. Many
> > folks
> > > say T III won't. My experience is not as bad as some of the
> stories
> > > offered, but it seems a bit iffy. I've not enough experience
yet
> to
> > > say for sure what factors come into play. My sense is that the
> more
> > > fresh wood fibre exposed the better and the earlier in the cure
> the
> > > better. Epoxy and resorcinol have good repairability. Gorilla
> > glue -
> > > also not trustworthy.
> > >
> > > Reversibility is whether a cured/dried glued joint can be
undone.
> > For
> > > example, antique furniture was usually assembled with some sort
of
> > > hide glue. Hide glue can be reversed with the application of
> heat -
> > > esp. moist heat. A conservator of fine antiques would never do
> > repairs
> > > using epoxy, or PVA glue (like standard Titebond), or modifed
PVA
> > > (like T III). Partly, that's for historical accuracy, and
partly
> > it's
> > > for the sake of being able to make future repairs without
> damaging
> > a
> > > valuable piece of furniture. The closest any of the typical
marine
> > > adhesives comes to reversibility is epoxy. If heated to maybe
> 160 -
> > > 200 degrees F(depending on the brand/formulation), it will
begin
> to
> > > reliquify.
> > >
> > > As for my distrust of Gorilla Glue, it may just be my
impatient,
> > surly
> > > side kicking in when faced with some new "miracle goo". I tried
> it
> > on
> > > several small projects for my own use. I made some test panels.
> > Some
> > > panels I left out to weather, some I did some destruction
testing
> > on,
> > > and some I did the boil test on. I was not impressed with the
> > results.
> > > I've also seen a few reliable sources echo my concerns (such as
> the
> > > Fine WW test mentioned above). However, several of my 'Ol Coot
> > buddies
> > > have built their boats primarily with GG. None have fallen
apart
> > yet,
> > > and neither has yours. My cynical self says, talk to me 10
years
> > from
> > > now. Talk to me after your boatcover leaks and she sits with a
> > bilge
> > > full of water for months. Talk to me after you go through some
> > heavy
> > > weather, and she gets tossed and beat beyond what you ever
> expected
> > > her to. I hope those reports will be good, but I'm a bit
> skeptical.
> > >
> > > Cheers & Smears,
> > > David Graybeal
> > > Portland, OR
> > >
> > > "These are my principles, and if you don't like them... well,
> I've
> > got
> > > others" -- Groucho Marx
> > >
> > > **************
> > >
> > > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "fredschum" <fredschum@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I think it was Fine Woodworking that did a comparative glue
> test
> > a
> > > > few months ago and determined that Titebond III was the best,
> > > > slightly ahead of epoxy. It rated the polyurethane glue last.
> > The
> > > > test did not include underwater exposure. However, Titebond
is
> a
> > > > waterproof glue. Guzwell, of Trekka fame, became allergic to
> > epoxy
> > > > and built a boat using a two-part (aliphatic acid-hardened, I
> > think)
> > > > glue. The article was in Wooden Boat some years ago.
> > > >
> > > > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "bill shamblin"
<bshamblin2002@>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > builders,
> > > > >
> > > > > what is the best hull building glue ( for fir/pine/exterior
> > grade
> > > > > plywood ) for one who has developed epoxy allergy???
> > > > >
> > > > > my last boat was built with 1 part poly-urethane glue ( pl
> > premium
> > > > > construction )which let go after about 2 years around the
> > chines,
> > > > > mostly i suspect, because 1- i took out the dry wall screws
> > after
> > > > the
> > > > > glue dried and 2- i didnt fully cover the hull with
> fiberglass
> > > > inside
> > > > > and out (which i will do this time.)
> > > > >
> > > > > im doing a small boat - a double Brick 4x16.
> > > > >
> > > > > thanks,
> > > > >
> > > > > bill in NC
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
One more post on resorcinol and epoxy
I first used epoxy as a child around 1959 or 60, thereabouts. It was
not on the market to everyone, but my Dad was the supervisor of the
research machine shop for Bemis company, making prototype machines
for the plastic industry. I also had plastic bags when no one know
what they were. Who knew what a mess for the environment plastics
would turn out to be! Anyway, decades later when I was building my
Bruce Roberts Spray, and had an both epoxy joints fail on 7 inch high
in a place where they were subjuect to high shear loads, I asked him
about it and he said the lab guys say epoxy is great except for
shear. I'm sure epoxy has improved a lot since then, but not wanting
to take a chance on my wood mast I went back to resorcinol. The
reason for this was that, before WWII my Dad worked as a machinest
for General Dairy. They made the huge blades for the churns from
oak, lamimated with resorcinal into a large plank, about 6" X 12" I
seem to recall. Then they put this laminated piece into a huge
steambox where it was twisted to make the churn blades, paddles,
whatever they called them. Any glue that can survive that can be
trusted.
I, of course, do use epoxy because I am too impatient to try to make
the perfect joints necessary when I don't have thousands of dollars
worth of joiners, planers, etc. to make such joints. Remember,
before epoxy a GOOD glue joint was expected to be .oo5 inches,
something not possible with my $89.95 table saw from Menards:(
Bob
PS - My Spray is still around the area, and the mast is still good
after 23 years.
-- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "bill shamblin" <bshamblin2002@...>
wrote:
I first used epoxy as a child around 1959 or 60, thereabouts. It was
not on the market to everyone, but my Dad was the supervisor of the
research machine shop for Bemis company, making prototype machines
for the plastic industry. I also had plastic bags when no one know
what they were. Who knew what a mess for the environment plastics
would turn out to be! Anyway, decades later when I was building my
Bruce Roberts Spray, and had an both epoxy joints fail on 7 inch high
in a place where they were subjuect to high shear loads, I asked him
about it and he said the lab guys say epoxy is great except for
shear. I'm sure epoxy has improved a lot since then, but not wanting
to take a chance on my wood mast I went back to resorcinol. The
reason for this was that, before WWII my Dad worked as a machinest
for General Dairy. They made the huge blades for the churns from
oak, lamimated with resorcinal into a large plank, about 6" X 12" I
seem to recall. Then they put this laminated piece into a huge
steambox where it was twisted to make the churn blades, paddles,
whatever they called them. Any glue that can survive that can be
trusted.
I, of course, do use epoxy because I am too impatient to try to make
the perfect joints necessary when I don't have thousands of dollars
worth of joiners, planers, etc. to make such joints. Remember,
before epoxy a GOOD glue joint was expected to be .oo5 inches,
something not possible with my $89.95 table saw from Menards:(
Bob
PS - My Spray is still around the area, and the mast is still good
after 23 years.
-- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "bill shamblin" <bshamblin2002@...>
wrote:
>been
> thanks everyone! this is the information i needed.
>
> bill in nc
>
>
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "David" <arbordg@> wrote:
> >
> > It was Fine WW, I believe. They tested both "good" joints
> and "sloppy"
> > joints. The Titebond III did, indeed, come out ahead of the tested
> > group - which included Gorilla Glue, but did not, IIRC, include
> either
> > resorcinol or plastic resin glue. I might also note that the epoxy
> > tested was not one I was experienced with. I'm not sure it was
> > representative of those typically used for boatbuilding, but
> probably
> > it was close enough.
> >
> > I like Titebond III, and - as a professional woodworker - have
> > using it increasingly. However, if I remember the articlereversibility,
> correctly,
> > they did not address the issues of repairability, or
> > neither of which are good traits for T III.stories
> >
> > Repairability is whether an adhesive will glue to itself. Many
> folks
> > say T III won't. My experience is not as bad as some of the
> > offered, but it seems a bit iffy. I've not enough experience yetto
> > say for sure what factors come into play. My sense is that themore
> > fresh wood fibre exposed the better and the earlier in the curethe
> > better. Epoxy and resorcinol have good repairability. Gorillaheat -
> glue -
> > also not trustworthy.
> >
> > Reversibility is whether a cured/dried glued joint can be undone.
> For
> > example, antique furniture was usually assembled with some sort of
> > hide glue. Hide glue can be reversed with the application of
> > esp. moist heat. A conservator of fine antiques would never dodamaging
> repairs
> > using epoxy, or PVA glue (like standard Titebond), or modifed PVA
> > (like T III). Partly, that's for historical accuracy, and partly
> it's
> > for the sake of being able to make future repairs without
> a160 -
> > valuable piece of furniture. The closest any of the typical marine
> > adhesives comes to reversibility is epoxy. If heated to maybe
> > 200 degrees F(depending on the brand/formulation), it will beginto
> > reliquify.it
> >
> > As for my distrust of Gorilla Glue, it may just be my impatient,
> surly
> > side kicking in when faced with some new "miracle goo". I tried
> onthe
> > several small projects for my own use. I made some test panels.
> Some
> > panels I left out to weather, some I did some destruction testing
> on,
> > and some I did the boil test on. I was not impressed with the
> results.
> > I've also seen a few reliable sources echo my concerns (such as
> > Fine WW test mentioned above). However, several of my 'Ol Cootexpected
> buddies
> > have built their boats primarily with GG. None have fallen apart
> yet,
> > and neither has yours. My cynical self says, talk to me 10 years
> from
> > now. Talk to me after your boatcover leaks and she sits with a
> bilge
> > full of water for months. Talk to me after you go through some
> heavy
> > weather, and she gets tossed and beat beyond what you ever
> > her to. I hope those reports will be good, but I'm a bitskeptical.
> >I've
> > Cheers & Smears,
> > David Graybeal
> > Portland, OR
> >
> > "These are my principles, and if you don't like them... well,
> gottest
> > others" -- Groucho Marx
> >
> > **************
> >
> > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "fredschum" <fredschum@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I think it was Fine Woodworking that did a comparative glue
> aa
> > > few months ago and determined that Titebond III was the best,
> > > slightly ahead of epoxy. It rated the polyurethane glue last.
> The
> > > test did not include underwater exposure. However, Titebond is
> > > waterproof glue. Guzwell, of Trekka fame, became allergic tofiberglass
> epoxy
> > > and built a boat using a two-part (aliphatic acid-hardened, I
> think)
> > > glue. The article was in Wooden Boat some years ago.
> > >
> > > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "bill shamblin" <bshamblin2002@>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > builders,
> > > >
> > > > what is the best hull building glue ( for fir/pine/exterior
> grade
> > > > plywood ) for one who has developed epoxy allergy???
> > > >
> > > > my last boat was built with 1 part poly-urethane glue ( pl
> premium
> > > > construction )which let go after about 2 years around the
> chines,
> > > > mostly i suspect, because 1- i took out the dry wall screws
> after
> > > the
> > > > glue dried and 2- i didnt fully cover the hull with
> > > inside
> > > > and out (which i will do this time.)
> > > >
> > > > im doing a small boat - a double Brick 4x16.
> > > >
> > > > thanks,
> > > >
> > > > bill in NC
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
thanks everyone! this is the information i needed.
bill in nc
bill in nc
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "David" <arbordg@...> wrote:
>
> It was Fine WW, I believe. They tested both "good" joints
and "sloppy"
> joints. The Titebond III did, indeed, come out ahead of the tested
> group - which included Gorilla Glue, but did not, IIRC, include
either
> resorcinol or plastic resin glue. I might also note that the epoxy
> tested was not one I was experienced with. I'm not sure it was
> representative of those typically used for boatbuilding, but
probably
> it was close enough.
>
> I like Titebond III, and - as a professional woodworker - have been
> using it increasingly. However, if I remember the article
correctly,
> they did not address the issues of repairability, or reversibility,
> neither of which are good traits for T III.
>
> Repairability is whether an adhesive will glue to itself. Many
folks
> say T III won't. My experience is not as bad as some of the stories
> offered, but it seems a bit iffy. I've not enough experience yet to
> say for sure what factors come into play. My sense is that the more
> fresh wood fibre exposed the better and the earlier in the cure the
> better. Epoxy and resorcinol have good repairability. Gorilla
glue -
> also not trustworthy.
>
> Reversibility is whether a cured/dried glued joint can be undone.
For
> example, antique furniture was usually assembled with some sort of
> hide glue. Hide glue can be reversed with the application of heat -
> esp. moist heat. A conservator of fine antiques would never do
repairs
> using epoxy, or PVA glue (like standard Titebond), or modifed PVA
> (like T III). Partly, that's for historical accuracy, and partly
it's
> for the sake of being able to make future repairs without damaging
a
> valuable piece of furniture. The closest any of the typical marine
> adhesives comes to reversibility is epoxy. If heated to maybe 160 -
> 200 degrees F(depending on the brand/formulation), it will begin to
> reliquify.
>
> As for my distrust of Gorilla Glue, it may just be my impatient,
surly
> side kicking in when faced with some new "miracle goo". I tried it
on
> several small projects for my own use. I made some test panels.
Some
> panels I left out to weather, some I did some destruction testing
on,
> and some I did the boil test on. I was not impressed with the
results.
> I've also seen a few reliable sources echo my concerns (such as the
> Fine WW test mentioned above). However, several of my 'Ol Coot
buddies
> have built their boats primarily with GG. None have fallen apart
yet,
> and neither has yours. My cynical self says, talk to me 10 years
from
> now. Talk to me after your boatcover leaks and she sits with a
bilge
> full of water for months. Talk to me after you go through some
heavy
> weather, and she gets tossed and beat beyond what you ever expected
> her to. I hope those reports will be good, but I'm a bit skeptical.
>
> Cheers & Smears,
> David Graybeal
> Portland, OR
>
> "These are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I've
got
> others" -- Groucho Marx
>
> **************
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "fredschum" <fredschum@> wrote:
> >
> > I think it was Fine Woodworking that did a comparative glue test
a
> > few months ago and determined that Titebond III was the best,
> > slightly ahead of epoxy. It rated the polyurethane glue last.
The
> > test did not include underwater exposure. However, Titebond is a
> > waterproof glue. Guzwell, of Trekka fame, became allergic to
epoxy
> > and built a boat using a two-part (aliphatic acid-hardened, I
think)
> > glue. The article was in Wooden Boat some years ago.
> >
> > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "bill shamblin" <bshamblin2002@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > builders,
> > >
> > > what is the best hull building glue ( for fir/pine/exterior
grade
> > > plywood ) for one who has developed epoxy allergy???
> > >
> > > my last boat was built with 1 part poly-urethane glue ( pl
premium
> > > construction )which let go after about 2 years around the
chines,
> > > mostly i suspect, because 1- i took out the dry wall screws
after
> > the
> > > glue dried and 2- i didnt fully cover the hull with fiberglass
> > inside
> > > and out (which i will do this time.)
> > >
> > > im doing a small boat - a double Brick 4x16.
> > >
> > > thanks,
> > >
> > > bill in NC
> > >
> >
>
It was Fine WW, I believe. They tested both "good" joints and "sloppy"
joints. The Titebond III did, indeed, come out ahead of the tested
group - which included Gorilla Glue, but did not, IIRC, include either
resorcinol or plastic resin glue. I might also note that the epoxy
tested was not one I was experienced with. I'm not sure it was
representative of those typically used for boatbuilding, but probably
it was close enough.
I like Titebond III, and - as a professional woodworker - have been
using it increasingly. However, if I remember the article correctly,
they did not address the issues of repairability, or reversibility,
neither of which are good traits for T III.
Repairability is whether an adhesive will glue to itself. Many folks
say T III won't. My experience is not as bad as some of the stories
offered, but it seems a bit iffy. I've not enough experience yet to
say for sure what factors come into play. My sense is that the more
fresh wood fibre exposed the better and the earlier in the cure the
better. Epoxy and resorcinol have good repairability. Gorilla glue -
also not trustworthy.
Reversibility is whether a cured/dried glued joint can be undone. For
example, antique furniture was usually assembled with some sort of
hide glue. Hide glue can be reversed with the application of heat -
esp. moist heat. A conservator of fine antiques would never do repairs
using epoxy, or PVA glue (like standard Titebond), or modifed PVA
(like T III). Partly, that's for historical accuracy, and partly it's
for the sake of being able to make future repairs without damaging a
valuable piece of furniture. The closest any of the typical marine
adhesives comes to reversibility is epoxy. If heated to maybe 160 -
200 degrees F(depending on the brand/formulation), it will begin to
reliquify.
As for my distrust of Gorilla Glue, it may just be my impatient, surly
side kicking in when faced with some new "miracle goo". I tried it on
several small projects for my own use. I made some test panels. Some
panels I left out to weather, some I did some destruction testing on,
and some I did the boil test on. I was not impressed with the results.
I've also seen a few reliable sources echo my concerns (such as the
Fine WW test mentioned above). However, several of my 'Ol Coot buddies
have built their boats primarily with GG. None have fallen apart yet,
and neither has yours. My cynical self says, talk to me 10 years from
now. Talk to me after your boatcover leaks and she sits with a bilge
full of water for months. Talk to me after you go through some heavy
weather, and she gets tossed and beat beyond what you ever expected
her to. I hope those reports will be good, but I'm a bit skeptical.
Cheers & Smears,
David Graybeal
Portland, OR
"These are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I've got
others" -- Groucho Marx
**************
joints. The Titebond III did, indeed, come out ahead of the tested
group - which included Gorilla Glue, but did not, IIRC, include either
resorcinol or plastic resin glue. I might also note that the epoxy
tested was not one I was experienced with. I'm not sure it was
representative of those typically used for boatbuilding, but probably
it was close enough.
I like Titebond III, and - as a professional woodworker - have been
using it increasingly. However, if I remember the article correctly,
they did not address the issues of repairability, or reversibility,
neither of which are good traits for T III.
Repairability is whether an adhesive will glue to itself. Many folks
say T III won't. My experience is not as bad as some of the stories
offered, but it seems a bit iffy. I've not enough experience yet to
say for sure what factors come into play. My sense is that the more
fresh wood fibre exposed the better and the earlier in the cure the
better. Epoxy and resorcinol have good repairability. Gorilla glue -
also not trustworthy.
Reversibility is whether a cured/dried glued joint can be undone. For
example, antique furniture was usually assembled with some sort of
hide glue. Hide glue can be reversed with the application of heat -
esp. moist heat. A conservator of fine antiques would never do repairs
using epoxy, or PVA glue (like standard Titebond), or modifed PVA
(like T III). Partly, that's for historical accuracy, and partly it's
for the sake of being able to make future repairs without damaging a
valuable piece of furniture. The closest any of the typical marine
adhesives comes to reversibility is epoxy. If heated to maybe 160 -
200 degrees F(depending on the brand/formulation), it will begin to
reliquify.
As for my distrust of Gorilla Glue, it may just be my impatient, surly
side kicking in when faced with some new "miracle goo". I tried it on
several small projects for my own use. I made some test panels. Some
panels I left out to weather, some I did some destruction testing on,
and some I did the boil test on. I was not impressed with the results.
I've also seen a few reliable sources echo my concerns (such as the
Fine WW test mentioned above). However, several of my 'Ol Coot buddies
have built their boats primarily with GG. None have fallen apart yet,
and neither has yours. My cynical self says, talk to me 10 years from
now. Talk to me after your boatcover leaks and she sits with a bilge
full of water for months. Talk to me after you go through some heavy
weather, and she gets tossed and beat beyond what you ever expected
her to. I hope those reports will be good, but I'm a bit skeptical.
Cheers & Smears,
David Graybeal
Portland, OR
"These are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I've got
others" -- Groucho Marx
**************
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "fredschum" <fredschum@...> wrote:
>
> I think it was Fine Woodworking that did a comparative glue test a
> few months ago and determined that Titebond III was the best,
> slightly ahead of epoxy. It rated the polyurethane glue last. The
> test did not include underwater exposure. However, Titebond is a
> waterproof glue. Guzwell, of Trekka fame, became allergic to epoxy
> and built a boat using a two-part (aliphatic acid-hardened, I think)
> glue. The article was in Wooden Boat some years ago.
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "bill shamblin" <bshamblin2002@>
> wrote:
> >
> > builders,
> >
> > what is the best hull building glue ( for fir/pine/exterior grade
> > plywood ) for one who has developed epoxy allergy???
> >
> > my last boat was built with 1 part poly-urethane glue ( pl premium
> > construction )which let go after about 2 years around the chines,
> > mostly i suspect, because 1- i took out the dry wall screws after
> the
> > glue dried and 2- i didnt fully cover the hull with fiberglass
> inside
> > and out (which i will do this time.)
> >
> > im doing a small boat - a double Brick 4x16.
> >
> > thanks,
> >
> > bill in NC
> >
>
Glad to see you havn't had problems but my info came frol the Wood
Products Testing Lab. Good thing you use tight fits the stringth
drops quickly when it fomes to fill gaps. Read the small print on the
back it says WATER RESISTANT not proof.
Jon
Products Testing Lab. Good thing you use tight fits the stringth
drops quickly when it fomes to fill gaps. Read the small print on the
back it says WATER RESISTANT not proof.
Jon
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Robb" <Robb@...> wrote:
>
> Hmmmmmm......this is the first time I've ever heard anything
negative about gorilla glue. I've built numerous small boats like
bolger skimmers and other similar 2 sheet boats.....sometimes without
even taping the chines at all and I've NEVER had any problem
whatsoever. Dave Zeiger who designed the trilobyte boats even
recommends it OVER epoxy for construction. For years I refused to
use anything other than epoxy but I've finally come off my addiction
and building boats is MUCH more enjoyable and faster with the other
glues. on an important boat I do glass the bottom but it certainly
isn't out of fear of the gorilla glue failing. I stongly question
the validity of any report of it failing. My latest skimmer is on
year 7 of its life and it has been outside 99% of the time. I am
currently using it on all of the internal framing on my Robbsboat.
Do a good enough job on your cutting so that you don't have any
cracks and gorilla glue won't come apart. Robb
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: David
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2007 12:28 AM
> Subject: [bolger] Re: alternative boat glue for epoxy allergy???
>
>
> I'm with Jon & Kenneth. My personal experience with Gorilla Glue &
> it's clones has not been good. I've largely stopped using it.
>
> The resorcinol is a good option, if you're willing & able to take
the
> care necessary to achieve close-tolerance joinery, and allow for
> sufficient clamping pressure. It has been used for boatbuilding &
> airplane construction for many decades, and was the adhesive of
choice
> prior to the widespread availability of epoxies.
>
> Epoxy is just as good, if not better as an adhesive. The added
> advantages are: sloppy, quicker joints are fine - even good;
minimum
> clamping is required; it also serves as a high-build, water-
resistant
> primer coat for painted or varnished finishes - in fact, a
variety of
> available additives make it useful for a wide range of tasks.
>
> Seems like you have three options: use epoxy, but take
extraordinary
> steps to protect yourself from exposure (seems doable, but watch
for
> symptoms!); switch to resorcinol glue, and live with it's
limitations
> (also doable); switch to traditional boatbuilding techniques
(nothing
> wrong with that, but is slower with more of a learning curve).
>
> Cheers,
> David Graybeal
> Portland, OR
>
> "Argue for your limitations and sure enough, they're yours" --
Richard
> Bach
>
> *************
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Kenneth Grome <bagacayboatworks@>
wrote:
> >
> > Gorilla glue has been reported to fail in more than one boating
forum.
> > Apparently it does not live up to the hype.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> > Ken Grome
> > Bagacay Boatworks
> > www.bagacayboatworks.com
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Hmmmmmm......this is the first time I've ever heard anything negative about gorilla glue. I've built numerous small boats like bolger skimmers and other similar 2 sheet boats.....sometimes without even taping the chines at all and I've NEVER had any problem whatsoever. Dave Zeiger who designed the trilobyte boats even recommends it OVER epoxy for construction. For years I refused to use anything other than epoxy but I've finally come off my addiction and building boats is MUCH more enjoyable and faster with the other glues. on an important boat I do glass the bottom but it certainly isn't out of fear of the gorilla glue failing. I stongly question the validity of any report of it failing. My latest skimmer is on year 7 of its life and it has been outside 99% of the time. I am currently using it on all of the internal framing on my Robbsboat. Do a good enough job on your cutting so that you don't have any cracks and gorilla glue won't come apart. Robb
----- Original Message -----
From: David
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2007 12:28 AM
Subject: [bolger] Re: alternative boat glue for epoxy allergy???
I'm with Jon & Kenneth. My personal experience with Gorilla Glue &
it's clones has not been good. I've largely stopped using it.
The resorcinol is a good option, if you're willing & able to take the
care necessary to achieve close-tolerance joinery, and allow for
sufficient clamping pressure. It has been used for boatbuilding &
airplane construction for many decades, and was the adhesive of choice
prior to the widespread availability of epoxies.
Epoxy is just as good, if not better as an adhesive. The added
advantages are: sloppy, quicker joints are fine - even good; minimum
clamping is required; it also serves as a high-build, water-resistant
primer coat for painted or varnished finishes - in fact, a variety of
available additives make it useful for a wide range of tasks.
Seems like you have three options: use epoxy, but take extraordinary
steps to protect yourself from exposure (seems doable, but watch for
symptoms!); switch to resorcinol glue, and live with it's limitations
(also doable); switch to traditional boatbuilding techniques (nothing
wrong with that, but is slower with more of a learning curve).
Cheers,
David Graybeal
Portland, OR
"Argue for your limitations and sure enough, they're yours" -- Richard
Bach
*************
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Kenneth Grome <bagacayboatworks@...> wrote:
>
> Gorilla glue has been reported to fail in more than one boating forum.
> Apparently it does not live up to the hype.
>
> Sincerely,
> Ken Grome
> Bagacay Boatworks
> www.bagacayboatworks.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I'm with Jon & Kenneth. My personal experience with Gorilla Glue &
it's clones has not been good. I've largely stopped using it.
The resorcinol is a good option, if you're willing & able to take the
care necessary to achieve close-tolerance joinery, and allow for
sufficient clamping pressure. It has been used for boatbuilding &
airplane construction for many decades, and was the adhesive of choice
prior to the widespread availability of epoxies.
Epoxy is just as good, if not better as an adhesive. The added
advantages are: sloppy, quicker joints are fine - even good; minimum
clamping is required; it also serves as a high-build, water-resistant
primer coat for painted or varnished finishes - in fact, a variety of
available additives make it useful for a wide range of tasks.
Seems like you have three options: use epoxy, but take extraordinary
steps to protect yourself from exposure (seems doable, but watch for
symptoms!); switch to resorcinol glue, and live with it's limitations
(also doable); switch to traditional boatbuilding techniques (nothing
wrong with that, but is slower with more of a learning curve).
Cheers,
David Graybeal
Portland, OR
"Argue for your limitations and sure enough, they're yours" -- Richard
Bach
*************
it's clones has not been good. I've largely stopped using it.
The resorcinol is a good option, if you're willing & able to take the
care necessary to achieve close-tolerance joinery, and allow for
sufficient clamping pressure. It has been used for boatbuilding &
airplane construction for many decades, and was the adhesive of choice
prior to the widespread availability of epoxies.
Epoxy is just as good, if not better as an adhesive. The added
advantages are: sloppy, quicker joints are fine - even good; minimum
clamping is required; it also serves as a high-build, water-resistant
primer coat for painted or varnished finishes - in fact, a variety of
available additives make it useful for a wide range of tasks.
Seems like you have three options: use epoxy, but take extraordinary
steps to protect yourself from exposure (seems doable, but watch for
symptoms!); switch to resorcinol glue, and live with it's limitations
(also doable); switch to traditional boatbuilding techniques (nothing
wrong with that, but is slower with more of a learning curve).
Cheers,
David Graybeal
Portland, OR
"Argue for your limitations and sure enough, they're yours" -- Richard
Bach
*************
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Kenneth Grome <bagacayboatworks@...> wrote:
>
> Gorilla glue has been reported to fail in more than one boating forum.
> Apparently it does not live up to the hype.
>
> Sincerely,
> Ken Grome
> Bagacay Boatworks
> www.bagacayboatworks.com
Gorilla glue has been reported to fail in more than one boating forum.
Apparently it does not live up to the hype.
Sincerely,
Ken Grome
Bagacay Boatworks
www.bagacayboatworks.com
Apparently it does not live up to the hype.
Sincerely,
Ken Grome
Bagacay Boatworks
www.bagacayboatworks.com
> No disrespect for John but the fine print
> on the back of Gorila glue here in the us
> says it is water resistant.
No disrespect for John but the fine print on the back of Gorila glue
here in the us says it is water resistant.
Jon
here in the us says it is water resistant.
Jon
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Charles Rouse" <zavala@...> wrote:
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "bill shamblin" <bshamblin2002@>
> wrote:
> That's bad luck with the expoxy. I use epoxy but John Welsford has
a
> little discussion about glue here,
>
>http://tinyurl.com/2ueezj
>
> Resorcinol has been used on boats, it requires that you learn how
> to use it. Jamestown Distributors might have it.
>
> Charles Rouse
> >
> > builders,
> >
> > what is the best hull building glue ( for fir/pine/exterior grade
> > plywood ) for one who has developed epoxy allergy???
> >
> > my last boat was built with 1 part poly-urethane glue ( pl
premium
> > construction )which let go after about 2 years around the chines,
> > mostly i suspect, because 1- i took out the dry wall screws after
> the
> > glue dried and 2- i didnt fully cover the hull with fiberglass
> inside
> > and out (which i will do this time.)
> >
> > im doing a small boat - a double Brick 4x16.
> >
> > thanks,
> >
> > bill in NC
> >
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "bill shamblin" <bshamblin2002@...>
wrote:
That's bad luck with the expoxy. I use epoxy but John Welsford has a
little discussion about glue here,
http://tinyurl.com/2ueezj
Resorcinol has been used on boats, it requires that you learn how
to use it. Jamestown Distributors might have it.
Charles Rouse
wrote:
That's bad luck with the expoxy. I use epoxy but John Welsford has a
little discussion about glue here,
http://tinyurl.com/2ueezj
Resorcinol has been used on boats, it requires that you learn how
to use it. Jamestown Distributors might have it.
Charles Rouse
>the
> builders,
>
> what is the best hull building glue ( for fir/pine/exterior grade
> plywood ) for one who has developed epoxy allergy???
>
> my last boat was built with 1 part poly-urethane glue ( pl premium
> construction )which let go after about 2 years around the chines,
> mostly i suspect, because 1- i took out the dry wall screws after
> glue dried and 2- i didnt fully cover the hull with fiberglassinside
> and out (which i will do this time.)
>
> im doing a small boat - a double Brick 4x16.
>
> thanks,
>
> bill in NC
>
> Excellent boats have been built for many centuries without epoxy.Or trunnels and tar and oakum.
> They used plenty of nails, screws, and caulking.
On 10/6/07, bill shamblin <bshamblin2002@...> wrote:
They used plenty of nails, screws, and caulking.
> what is the best hull building glue ( for fir/pine/exterior gradeExcellent boats have been built for many centuries without epoxy.
> plywood ) for one who has developed epoxy allergy???
They used plenty of nails, screws, and caulking.
I will second that on the TB-III TB-II and the Gorila glue types are
only water RESISTANT in the fine print. Glues like PL don't soak in
as well and so they only surface glue. If you are going to glass
afterwards why not use the same precautions you use to glass to glue.
Proper protection with nonfully cured epoxy like gloves and masks at
all times though a pain saves the itch.
Jon
only water RESISTANT in the fine print. Glues like PL don't soak in
as well and so they only surface glue. If you are going to glass
afterwards why not use the same precautions you use to glass to glue.
Proper protection with nonfully cured epoxy like gloves and masks at
all times though a pain saves the itch.
Jon
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "fredschum" <fredschum@...> wrote:
>
> I think it was Fine Woodworking that did a comparative glue test a
> few months ago and determined that Titebond III was the best,
> slightly ahead of epoxy. It rated the polyurethane glue last. The
> test did not include underwater exposure. However, Titebond is a
> waterproof glue. Guzwell, of Trekka fame, became allergic to epoxy
> and built a boat using a two-part (aliphatic acid-hardened, I
think)
> glue. The article was in Wooden Boat some years ago.
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "bill shamblin" <bshamblin2002@>
> wrote:
> >
> > builders,
> >
> > what is the best hull building glue ( for fir/pine/exterior grade
> > plywood ) for one who has developed epoxy allergy???
> >
> > my last boat was built with 1 part poly-urethane glue ( pl
premium
> > construction )which let go after about 2 years around the chines,
> > mostly i suspect, because 1- i took out the dry wall screws after
> the
> > glue dried and 2- i didnt fully cover the hull with fiberglass
> inside
> > and out (which i will do this time.)
> >
> > im doing a small boat - a double Brick 4x16.
> >
> > thanks,
> >
> > bill in NC
> >
>
I think it was Fine Woodworking that did a comparative glue test a
few months ago and determined that Titebond III was the best,
slightly ahead of epoxy. It rated the polyurethane glue last. The
test did not include underwater exposure. However, Titebond is a
waterproof glue. Guzwell, of Trekka fame, became allergic to epoxy
and built a boat using a two-part (aliphatic acid-hardened, I think)
glue. The article was in Wooden Boat some years ago.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "bill shamblin" <bshamblin2002@...>
wrote:
few months ago and determined that Titebond III was the best,
slightly ahead of epoxy. It rated the polyurethane glue last. The
test did not include underwater exposure. However, Titebond is a
waterproof glue. Guzwell, of Trekka fame, became allergic to epoxy
and built a boat using a two-part (aliphatic acid-hardened, I think)
glue. The article was in Wooden Boat some years ago.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "bill shamblin" <bshamblin2002@...>
wrote:
>the
> builders,
>
> what is the best hull building glue ( for fir/pine/exterior grade
> plywood ) for one who has developed epoxy allergy???
>
> my last boat was built with 1 part poly-urethane glue ( pl premium
> construction )which let go after about 2 years around the chines,
> mostly i suspect, because 1- i took out the dry wall screws after
> glue dried and 2- i didnt fully cover the hull with fiberglassinside
> and out (which i will do this time.)
>
> im doing a small boat - a double Brick 4x16.
>
> thanks,
>
> bill in NC
>
builders,
what is the best hull building glue ( for fir/pine/exterior grade
plywood ) for one who has developed epoxy allergy???
my last boat was built with 1 part poly-urethane glue ( pl premium
construction )which let go after about 2 years around the chines,
mostly i suspect, because 1- i took out the dry wall screws after the
glue dried and 2- i didnt fully cover the hull with fiberglass inside
and out (which i will do this time.)
im doing a small boat - a double Brick 4x16.
thanks,
bill in NC
what is the best hull building glue ( for fir/pine/exterior grade
plywood ) for one who has developed epoxy allergy???
my last boat was built with 1 part poly-urethane glue ( pl premium
construction )which let go after about 2 years around the chines,
mostly i suspect, because 1- i took out the dry wall screws after the
glue dried and 2- i didnt fully cover the hull with fiberglass inside
and out (which i will do this time.)
im doing a small boat - a double Brick 4x16.
thanks,
bill in NC