Re: [bolger] Re: Spar making
Doug:
An excellent analysis -- useful to me in future projects, I think.
Patrick
Doug Pollard wrote:
An excellent analysis -- useful to me in future projects, I think.
Patrick
Doug Pollard wrote:
> Wanna say a little more about spar making. I would say that spar
> size is more a matter of how you think than any size a designer can
> decide on. A rig designer has to make his decision based on the idea
> that we very unprofesional boat builders will use a piece of wood that
> is not perfect and maybe even worse than that. Normally you figure that
> something has to carry a certain load then you double or even tripple it
> to allow for all the things you can't calculate. A step ladder for example.
> So the builder decides and he makes that decision at the lumber
> yard. If he can find a perfect piece of very light strong wood he can
> make the spar smaller than called for. If the wood selected is mediocre
> the spar needs to be what the designer calls for. If you pick a louzy
> piece of wood you better make the spar plenty heafty and in which case
> you will wind up with a heavy rig that may even be weaker than the
> designer intended.
> The guy who designs things from wood faces a really difficult
> problem where strength of material is concerned. He likely has a table
> that gives the strength of a piece of wood of a certain kind . The
> problem is the figure on that table is only for the piece of wood
> tested. Or maybe an average of a bunch of differencet pieces.
> The test for a mast has traditinally been to set the ends on a
> sawhorse and stand in the middle if it doesnt break it's good,but then
> that depends on how big the mast is. If your mast is for a 14ft boat
> you will likely break then all.
> If you're not going to put much thought into buying wood I would
> say make it as strong as called for because very little thought and
> little understanding of wood is what the designer was counting on.
>
> Doug
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...> wrote:
snotter and mainsheet( tied right at the bitter ends of the sprit
boom or lead off from around thole pins near the ends of the sprit
boom), you may wish to make the sprit boom a wee bit longer(about
10" to 12") to ensure against the snotter end of the boom jamming up
tight against the block(pulley) on the mast. It is important to be
able to fully flatten the mainsail in strong winds and that little
bit of extra length will make it a sure thing as it allows for some
stretch in the associated lines(clew and luff) yet still giving you
some length to snug down firmly on the snotter to haul the sprit
boom out good and tight.
I hope that makes some sense :-)
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan, re-living,in my head,some glorious days sailing with
LESTAT..........
>I14'6"
> would trust the Bolger plans which call for 2 inches square by
> long.Depending on exactly how you set up the attachment points for the
snotter and mainsheet( tied right at the bitter ends of the sprit
boom or lead off from around thole pins near the ends of the sprit
boom), you may wish to make the sprit boom a wee bit longer(about
10" to 12") to ensure against the snotter end of the boom jamming up
tight against the block(pulley) on the mast. It is important to be
able to fully flatten the mainsail in strong winds and that little
bit of extra length will make it a sure thing as it allows for some
stretch in the associated lines(clew and luff) yet still giving you
some length to snug down firmly on the snotter to haul the sprit
boom out good and tight.
I hope that makes some sense :-)
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan, re-living,in my head,some glorious days sailing with
LESTAT..........
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Doug Pollard <Dougpol1@...> wrote:
You Sir are one lucky guy! WOLFTRAP is one of my all time favorite
Bolger design and many have been the times that I have gazed at the
cover of Different Boats and imagined that the two people shown on
board were my brother and I :-)
I built an Elver some time ago(before my Micro) and broke the main
sprit during the first season. Mind you, this was due to a) my stowing
the rig like the Thames sailing barges;sprit left standing and
deployed with sail furled up to it and around the mast and b)
sharp,steep and plentiful power boat wakes which would cause the sprit
to go through violent occillations and even to bounce around,while the
boat was tied up to her quay. The remedy, for me, was to slightly
increase the scantlings with three laminations(instead of the simpler
two) and to attach a pair of preventer lines running down from the
peak of the sprit to each quarter.
Similarily with the Micro, I knew I was going to stow the sprit
boom in an"up" position supported by a couple of topping lifts,instead
of having to always deal with it laying down flat on the deck.Thus it
too was beefed up slightly for this reason and to avoid developing an
un-wanted bend in the boom after hanging that way month after month at
its quay.
Neither of these boats were dry sailed but instead spent about six
months a year working from a quay.
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan, who would love to see some interior pictures of
WOLFTRAP...............
>believe the sprit called for on it
> Peter I am kind of with you on this. The only real experience with a
> sprit was the spritboom on Wolftrap. I am building and Elver and I
> is much stronger than needed unless you catch it between the dockand
> the boat. Something I hope not to do.Hi Doug,
You Sir are one lucky guy! WOLFTRAP is one of my all time favorite
Bolger design and many have been the times that I have gazed at the
cover of Different Boats and imagined that the two people shown on
board were my brother and I :-)
I built an Elver some time ago(before my Micro) and broke the main
sprit during the first season. Mind you, this was due to a) my stowing
the rig like the Thames sailing barges;sprit left standing and
deployed with sail furled up to it and around the mast and b)
sharp,steep and plentiful power boat wakes which would cause the sprit
to go through violent occillations and even to bounce around,while the
boat was tied up to her quay. The remedy, for me, was to slightly
increase the scantlings with three laminations(instead of the simpler
two) and to attach a pair of preventer lines running down from the
peak of the sprit to each quarter.
Similarily with the Micro, I knew I was going to stow the sprit
boom in an"up" position supported by a couple of topping lifts,instead
of having to always deal with it laying down flat on the deck.Thus it
too was beefed up slightly for this reason and to avoid developing an
un-wanted bend in the boom after hanging that way month after month at
its quay.
Neither of these boats were dry sailed but instead spent about six
months a year working from a quay.
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan, who would love to see some interior pictures of
WOLFTRAP...............
Wanna say a little more about spar making. I would say that spar
size is more a matter of how you think than any size a designer can
decide on. A rig designer has to make his decision based on the idea
that we very unprofesional boat builders will use a piece of wood that
is not perfect and maybe even worse than that. Normally you figure that
something has to carry a certain load then you double or even tripple it
to allow for all the things you can't calculate. A step ladder for example.
So the builder decides and he makes that decision at the lumber
yard. If he can find a perfect piece of very light strong wood he can
make the spar smaller than called for. If the wood selected is mediocre
the spar needs to be what the designer calls for. If you pick a louzy
piece of wood you better make the spar plenty heafty and in which case
you will wind up with a heavy rig that may even be weaker than the
designer intended.
The guy who designs things from wood faces a really difficult
problem where strength of material is concerned. He likely has a table
that gives the strength of a piece of wood of a certain kind . The
problem is the figure on that table is only for the piece of wood
tested. Or maybe an average of a bunch of differencet pieces.
The test for a mast has traditinally been to set the ends on a
sawhorse and stand in the middle if it doesnt break it's good,but then
that depends on how big the mast is. If your mast is for a 14ft boat
you will likely break then all.
If you're not going to put much thought into buying wood I would
say make it as strong as called for because very little thought and
little understanding of wood is what the designer was counting on.
Doug
size is more a matter of how you think than any size a designer can
decide on. A rig designer has to make his decision based on the idea
that we very unprofesional boat builders will use a piece of wood that
is not perfect and maybe even worse than that. Normally you figure that
something has to carry a certain load then you double or even tripple it
to allow for all the things you can't calculate. A step ladder for example.
So the builder decides and he makes that decision at the lumber
yard. If he can find a perfect piece of very light strong wood he can
make the spar smaller than called for. If the wood selected is mediocre
the spar needs to be what the designer calls for. If you pick a louzy
piece of wood you better make the spar plenty heafty and in which case
you will wind up with a heavy rig that may even be weaker than the
designer intended.
The guy who designs things from wood faces a really difficult
problem where strength of material is concerned. He likely has a table
that gives the strength of a piece of wood of a certain kind . The
problem is the figure on that table is only for the piece of wood
tested. Or maybe an average of a bunch of differencet pieces.
The test for a mast has traditinally been to set the ends on a
sawhorse and stand in the middle if it doesnt break it's good,but then
that depends on how big the mast is. If your mast is for a 14ft boat
you will likely break then all.
If you're not going to put much thought into buying wood I would
say make it as strong as called for because very little thought and
little understanding of wood is what the designer was counting on.
Doug
>
>
> Thanks guys,
> Its now full steam ahead on the sprit boom, I'll ease of the
> questions now for a while! Scored a great deal on some 13mm ply for
> the bottom yesterday, $89 each - 1200x2400, AC grade, barely
> discernable from marine grade). They are metric sheets just under
> the specified 4'width so it will call for an extra join up near the
> nose, inconvenient but worth it for the price.
> Col
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com<mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com>,
> "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...> wrote:
> >
> > On Dec 6, 2007 8:38 PM, Peter Lenihan <peterlenihan@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com<mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com>,
> "Col" <cmoone11@> wrote:
> > > Does anyone know where the biggest
> > > > stress point is on a sprit boom? Possibly where it touches
> the mast?
> >
> > Being in compression, the maximum stress point is halfway at
> 7'3". I
> > would trust the Bolger plans which call for 2 inches square by
> 14'6"
> > long.
> >
> > The trouble being that with standard dimensional lumber, getting 2"
> > thick stock is not easy. I like the advice of cutting two pieces
> to
> > 1" x 2 " and glue them back together to get a 2" square.
> >
> > I would try to find the straightest grain standard lumber
> available,
> > but don't loose sleep over this. The Micro is a forgiving design.
> > Personally, I would pick through the stack of 16 foot 2x6's at Home
> > Depot and choose the nicest straight grain piece. Then I would rip
> > cut the two 2" strips using a Skilsaw with a rip guide, then run
> those
> > through the tablesaw with a rip fence to make them 1"x 2". I would
> > flip one over so the cup of the grain of one piece 'mirrors' the
> other
> > piece and so any knots are offset. This evens out the tendency of
> the
> > wood to bend as it drys. Glue those two pieces together to be
> 2"x2".
> > Trim to 14'6" trying to keep the knots and crooked grain out of the
> > middle third of the length.
> >
> > At my California location, at least, it is possible to choose 2"x6"
> > out of the pile that is 90% good and straight, and I would expect
> that
> > I could find a piece 'good enough' where no scarfing is needed.
> Small
> > tight knots would be fine, the what you want to avoid are the
> pieces
> > where the grain of the wood does not run in parallel alignment with
> > the length of the stock (as happens near large knots).
> >
>
>
Thanks guys,
Its now full steam ahead on the sprit boom, I'll ease of the
questions now for a while! Scored a great deal on some 13mm ply for
the bottom yesterday, $89 each - 1200x2400, AC grade, barely
discernable from marine grade). They are metric sheets just under
the specified 4'width so it will call for an extra join up near the
nose, inconvenient but worth it for the price.
Col
Its now full steam ahead on the sprit boom, I'll ease of the
questions now for a while! Scored a great deal on some 13mm ply for
the bottom yesterday, $89 each - 1200x2400, AC grade, barely
discernable from marine grade). They are metric sheets just under
the specified 4'width so it will call for an extra join up near the
nose, inconvenient but worth it for the price.
Col
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...> wrote:
>
> On Dec 6, 2007 8:38 PM, Peter Lenihan <peterlenihan@...> wrote:
> >
> > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Col" <cmoone11@> wrote:
> > Does anyone know where the biggest
> > > stress point is on a sprit boom? Possibly where it touches
the mast?
>
> Being in compression, the maximum stress point is halfway at
7'3". I
> would trust the Bolger plans which call for 2 inches square by
14'6"
> long.
>
> The trouble being that with standard dimensional lumber, getting 2"
> thick stock is not easy. I like the advice of cutting two pieces
to
> 1" x 2 " and glue them back together to get a 2" square.
>
> I would try to find the straightest grain standard lumber
available,
> but don't loose sleep over this. The Micro is a forgiving design.
> Personally, I would pick through the stack of 16 foot 2x6's at Home
> Depot and choose the nicest straight grain piece. Then I would rip
> cut the two 2" strips using a Skilsaw with a rip guide, then run
those
> through the tablesaw with a rip fence to make them 1"x 2". I would
> flip one over so the cup of the grain of one piece 'mirrors' the
other
> piece and so any knots are offset. This evens out the tendency of
the
> wood to bend as it drys. Glue those two pieces together to be
2"x2".
> Trim to 14'6" trying to keep the knots and crooked grain out of the
> middle third of the length.
>
> At my California location, at least, it is possible to choose 2"x6"
> out of the pile that is 90% good and straight, and I would expect
that
> I could find a piece 'good enough' where no scarfing is needed.
Small
> tight knots would be fine, the what you want to avoid are the
pieces
> where the grain of the wood does not run in parallel alignment with
> the length of the stock (as happens near large knots).
>
On Dec 6, 2007 8:38 PM, Peter Lenihan <peterlenihan@...> wrote:
would trust the Bolger plans which call for 2 inches square by 14'6"
long.
The trouble being that with standard dimensional lumber, getting 2"
thick stock is not easy. I like the advice of cutting two pieces to
1" x 2 " and glue them back together to get a 2" square.
I would try to find the straightest grain standard lumber available,
but don't loose sleep over this. The Micro is a forgiving design.
Personally, I would pick through the stack of 16 foot 2x6's at Home
Depot and choose the nicest straight grain piece. Then I would rip
cut the two 2" strips using a Skilsaw with a rip guide, then run those
through the tablesaw with a rip fence to make them 1"x 2". I would
flip one over so the cup of the grain of one piece 'mirrors' the other
piece and so any knots are offset. This evens out the tendency of the
wood to bend as it drys. Glue those two pieces together to be 2"x2".
Trim to 14'6" trying to keep the knots and crooked grain out of the
middle third of the length.
At my California location, at least, it is possible to choose 2"x6"
out of the pile that is 90% good and straight, and I would expect that
I could find a piece 'good enough' where no scarfing is needed. Small
tight knots would be fine, the what you want to avoid are the pieces
where the grain of the wood does not run in parallel alignment with
the length of the stock (as happens near large knots).
>Being in compression, the maximum stress point is halfway at 7'3". I
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Col" <cmoone11@...> wrote:
> Does anyone know where the biggest
> > stress point is on a sprit boom? Possibly where it touches the mast?
would trust the Bolger plans which call for 2 inches square by 14'6"
long.
The trouble being that with standard dimensional lumber, getting 2"
thick stock is not easy. I like the advice of cutting two pieces to
1" x 2 " and glue them back together to get a 2" square.
I would try to find the straightest grain standard lumber available,
but don't loose sleep over this. The Micro is a forgiving design.
Personally, I would pick through the stack of 16 foot 2x6's at Home
Depot and choose the nicest straight grain piece. Then I would rip
cut the two 2" strips using a Skilsaw with a rip guide, then run those
through the tablesaw with a rip fence to make them 1"x 2". I would
flip one over so the cup of the grain of one piece 'mirrors' the other
piece and so any knots are offset. This evens out the tendency of the
wood to bend as it drys. Glue those two pieces together to be 2"x2".
Trim to 14'6" trying to keep the knots and crooked grain out of the
middle third of the length.
At my California location, at least, it is possible to choose 2"x6"
out of the pile that is 90% good and straight, and I would expect that
I could find a piece 'good enough' where no scarfing is needed. Small
tight knots would be fine, the what you want to avoid are the pieces
where the grain of the wood does not run in parallel alignment with
the length of the stock (as happens near large knots).
Sorry about that, that's one and three quater not 3/4 .
Doug
Doug Pollard wrote:
Doug
Doug Pollard wrote:
>
> Peter I am kind of with you on this. The only real experience with a
> sprit was the spritboom on Wolftrap. The first boom I put on her was
> alum pipe about 3" in diam and pretty thick wall.Way over kill.. I
> built a second one ! 3/4" dia. 1/16 wall thickness and the whole thing
> weighed less than 15lbs. This was 20ft long on a 500ft mainsail. We
> were afraid of it for a while but sailed offshore and all up and down
> the east coast and Bahammas in all kinds of conditions and never any
> sign of a problem. I think almost all sprits are heavier then they need
> to be. I am building and Elver and I believe the sprit called for on it
> is much stronger than needed unless you catch it between the dock and
> the boat. Something I hope not to do.
>
> Doug
>
> Peter Lenihan wrote:
> >
> > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com<mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com>, "Col"
> > <cmoone11@...> wrote:
> > Does anyone know where the biggest
> > > stress point is on a sprit boom? Possibly where it touches the mast?
> >
> > Hi Col,
> >
> > The sprit boom pretty much ends up as a spar in compression,I
> > think, and not all that much either,as it holds the sail out snug
> > along its foot,tensioned by the snotter hauling the sprit tight into
> > the clew of the mainsail. The mainsheet acting to simply guide the
> > sail to its best postion for sailing,like a windvane.Lateral forces
> > are not that great,in my experience.
> > And,on one tack the sprit boom never touches the mast while on the
> > other tack, the point of contact with the mast is almost at the end of
> > the sprit thus not much bending or lateral force there.
> > But I'm just talking through the big hole in my head as I am not
> > an engineer or science type guy.Lately I've been relying ever more on
> > my gut feeling, and it is an ever expanding gut at that,thanks to
> > copious amounts of home cooking and bottled refreshments various :-)
> >
> > Success with your build Col!!
> >
> > Sincerely,
> >
> > Peter Lenihan,merrily ambling along...........
> >
> >
>
>
Peter I am kind of with you on this. The only real experience with a
sprit was the spritboom on Wolftrap. The first boom I put on her was
alum pipe about 3" in diam and pretty thick wall.Way over kill.. I
built a second one ! 3/4" dia. 1/16 wall thickness and the whole thing
weighed less than 15lbs. This was 20ft long on a 500ft mainsail. We
were afraid of it for a while but sailed offshore and all up and down
the east coast and Bahammas in all kinds of conditions and never any
sign of a problem. I think almost all sprits are heavier then they need
to be. I am building and Elver and I believe the sprit called for on it
is much stronger than needed unless you catch it between the dock and
the boat. Something I hope not to do.
Doug
Peter Lenihan wrote:
sprit was the spritboom on Wolftrap. The first boom I put on her was
alum pipe about 3" in diam and pretty thick wall.Way over kill.. I
built a second one ! 3/4" dia. 1/16 wall thickness and the whole thing
weighed less than 15lbs. This was 20ft long on a 500ft mainsail. We
were afraid of it for a while but sailed offshore and all up and down
the east coast and Bahammas in all kinds of conditions and never any
sign of a problem. I think almost all sprits are heavier then they need
to be. I am building and Elver and I believe the sprit called for on it
is much stronger than needed unless you catch it between the dock and
the boat. Something I hope not to do.
Doug
Peter Lenihan wrote:
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com<mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com>, "Col"
> <cmoone11@...> wrote:
> Does anyone know where the biggest
> > stress point is on a sprit boom? Possibly where it touches the mast?
>
> Hi Col,
>
> The sprit boom pretty much ends up as a spar in compression,I
> think, and not all that much either,as it holds the sail out snug
> along its foot,tensioned by the snotter hauling the sprit tight into
> the clew of the mainsail. The mainsheet acting to simply guide the
> sail to its best postion for sailing,like a windvane.Lateral forces
> are not that great,in my experience.
> And,on one tack the sprit boom never touches the mast while on the
> other tack, the point of contact with the mast is almost at the end of
> the sprit thus not much bending or lateral force there.
> But I'm just talking through the big hole in my head as I am not
> an engineer or science type guy.Lately I've been relying ever more on
> my gut feeling, and it is an ever expanding gut at that,thanks to
> copious amounts of home cooking and bottled refreshments various :-)
>
> Success with your build Col!!
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Peter Lenihan,merrily ambling along...........
>
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Col" <cmoone11@...> wrote:
Does anyone know where the biggest
> stress point is on a sprit boom? Possibly where it touches the mast?
Hi Col,
The sprit boom pretty much ends up as a spar in compression,I
think, and not all that much either,as it holds the sail out snug
along its foot,tensioned by the snotter hauling the sprit tight into
the clew of the mainsail. The mainsheet acting to simply guide the
sail to its best postion for sailing,like a windvane.Lateral forces
are not that great,in my experience.
And,on one tack the sprit boom never touches the mast while on the
other tack, the point of contact with the mast is almost at the end of
the sprit thus not much bending or lateral force there.
But I'm just talking through the big hole in my head as I am not
an engineer or science type guy.Lately I've been relying ever more on
my gut feeling, and it is an ever expanding gut at that,thanks to
copious amounts of home cooking and bottled refreshments various :-)
Success with your build Col!!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,merrily ambling along...........
You can serve a multi-spiral binding of stout twine onto the glued up spar,
in lieu of clamps... - Bill
_____
From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Col
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 7:26 AM
To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Spar making
Thanks John,
Sounds indestructable.
Col
--- In bolger@yahoogroups. <mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com> com,
catboat15@... wrote:
NCID=aoltop00030000000001)
in lieu of clamps... - Bill
_____
From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Col
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 7:26 AM
To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Spar making
Thanks John,
Sounds indestructable.
Col
--- In bolger@yahoogroups. <mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com> com,
catboat15@... wrote:
>be the way
> If your wood is not long enough to make your spar, scarfing would
> to go. I would still laminate the spar or mast from two or morepieces and
> be sure the scarfed joints are not across from each other. For the16 foot mast
> of my "Car Topper" for the first boat I had a 16 foot 2 X 6 andripped off
> two chunks, reversed them and epoxyed them using every clamp Ihad in my
> collections. If you decide to scarf the joints still make it intwo pieces with
> the scarfed areas not across from each other.2007's hottest
>
> Bolger, Payson Car topper
> 14-9 foot Swifty
> John Meacham
>
>
>
>
> **************************************Check out AOL's list of
> products.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?
> (http://money. <http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?>
NCID=aoltop00030000000001)
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Thanks Bill,
I had been wondering about that. Does anyone know where the biggest
stress point is on a sprit boom? Possibly where it touches the mast?
Col
I had been wondering about that. Does anyone know where the biggest
stress point is on a sprit boom? Possibly where it touches the mast?
Col
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, BllFs6@... wrote:
>
>
> In a message dated 12/5/2007 11:02:39 PM Central Standard Time,
> catboat15@... writes:
>
> If you decide to scarf the joints still make it in two pieces
with
> the scarfed areas not across from each other.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Another consideration I would think is how you lay out your
scarfing in
> relation to the loads and load directions on your spar....ie the
load is mostly
> in this direction, so therefore orient the scarfing this way.....
>
> I dont know enough about scarfing or loads on sailboat structures
to give
> advice here....but maybe someone more knowledgeable can give
advice in these
> regards
>
> Blll
>
>
>
> **************************************Check out AOL's list of
2007's hottest
> products.
> (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?
NCID=aoltop00030000000001)
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
In a message dated 12/5/2007 11:02:39 PM Central Standard Time,
catboat15@...writes:
If you decide to scarf the joints still make it in two pieces with
the scarfed areas not across from each other.
Another consideration I would think is how you lay out your scarfing in
relation to the loads and load directions on your spar....ie the load is mostly
in this direction, so therefore orient the scarfing this way.....
I dont know enough about scarfing or loads on sailboat structures to give
advice here....but maybe someone more knowledgeable can give advice in these
regards
Blll
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catboat15@...writes:
If you decide to scarf the joints still make it in two pieces with
the scarfed areas not across from each other.
Another consideration I would think is how you lay out your scarfing in
relation to the loads and load directions on your spar....ie the load is mostly
in this direction, so therefore orient the scarfing this way.....
I dont know enough about scarfing or loads on sailboat structures to give
advice here....but maybe someone more knowledgeable can give advice in these
regards
Blll
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Thanks John,
Sounds indestructable.
Col
Sounds indestructable.
Col
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, catboat15@... wrote:
>
> If your wood is not long enough to make your spar, scarfing would
be the way
> to go. I would still laminate the spar or mast from two or more
pieces and
> be sure the scarfed joints are not across from each other. For the
16 foot mast
> of my "Car Topper" for the first boat I had a 16 foot 2 X 6 and
ripped off
> two chunks, reversed them and epoxyed them using every clamp I
had in my
> collections. If you decide to scarf the joints still make it in
two pieces with
> the scarfed areas not across from each other.
>
> Bolger, Payson Car topper
> 14-9 foot Swifty
> John Meacham
>
>
>
>
> **************************************Check out AOL's list of
2007's hottest
> products.
> (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?
NCID=aoltop00030000000001)
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
If your wood is not long enough to make your spar, scarfing would be the way
to go. I would still laminate the spar or mast from two or more pieces and
be sure the scarfed joints are not across from each other. For the 16 foot mast
of my "Car Topper" for the first boat I had a 16 foot 2 X 6 and ripped off
two chunks, reversed them and epoxyed them using every clamp I had in my
collections. If you decide to scarf the joints still make it in two pieces with
the scarfed areas not across from each other.
Bolger, Payson Car topper
14-9 foot Swifty
John Meacham
**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
to go. I would still laminate the spar or mast from two or more pieces and
be sure the scarfed joints are not across from each other. For the 16 foot mast
of my "Car Topper" for the first boat I had a 16 foot 2 X 6 and ripped off
two chunks, reversed them and epoxyed them using every clamp I had in my
collections. If you decide to scarf the joints still make it in two pieces with
the scarfed areas not across from each other.
Bolger, Payson Car topper
14-9 foot Swifty
John Meacham
**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
products.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Thanks Bruce,
I'm not sure what you mean about 1 1/2" nominal, but you and Peter
seem to think that the 2" finished sprit boom is a bit light. I
might bump it up to 2 1/2" with nicely rounded edges.
Cheers,
Col
I'm not sure what you mean about 1 1/2" nominal, but you and Peter
seem to think that the 2" finished sprit boom is a bit light. I
might bump it up to 2 1/2" with nicely rounded edges.
Cheers,
Col
> >enough.
> >
>
> I ditto Peter's advice that a 1 1/2" nominal square is not big
>
> Though personally, I would be satisfied with a 1:8 scarf.
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...> wrote:
>
> On Dec 5, 2007 3:03 AM, Col <cmoone11@...> wrote:
> >
> > Peter,
> > Yes the plans specify 2" square, 14'6" long. Thanks for the tip
re
> > the scarf length, should make for some fun woodwork.
> >
> > Col
--- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bill" <kingw@...> wrote:
Not sure which Peter you are refering to,but I hope he is as
flattered as me :-)
But,alas, my sprit boom was also given a fancy-dancy bit of rope
work for chafe protection as can be seen here,fifth picture down
tilted "head":
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/files/Micro/Lenihans%27%20%20%
22LESTAT%22%20/
I used to challenge folks at boat shows to guess,exactly,how
many feet of line it took to make.The correct guess got the boat
free.No one(thank you Jesus!) ever came really close.
Now,had I really been fancy, there would have been stitched
leather everywhere and anywhere,even on my box of invisible rope:-)
Sincerely,
Peter lenihan, letting my mind gently drift onto images of other fine
uses for leather,like thigh high boots and tickle whips,titilating I
dare say in the least :-D...........
>the
> Col,
> Ditto for me- for my boom I ripped my stock in half and staggered
> scarfs. I was able to hide one of my scarfs (I finished my sparsHi Bill,
> bright) by wrapping it with rope, as anti-chaffing where it rubs the
> mast. The fancier members of the list (cough*Peter*cough) used
> stitched leathers for anti-chaffing.
Not sure which Peter you are refering to,but I hope he is as
flattered as me :-)
But,alas, my sprit boom was also given a fancy-dancy bit of rope
work for chafe protection as can be seen here,fifth picture down
tilted "head":
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/files/Micro/Lenihans%27%20%20%
22LESTAT%22%20/
I used to challenge folks at boat shows to guess,exactly,how
many feet of line it took to make.The correct guess got the boat
free.No one(thank you Jesus!) ever came really close.
Now,had I really been fancy, there would have been stitched
leather everywhere and anywhere,even on my box of invisible rope:-)
Sincerely,
Peter lenihan, letting my mind gently drift onto images of other fine
uses for leather,like thigh high boots and tickle whips,titilating I
dare say in the least :-D...........
Col,
Ditto for me- for my boom I ripped my stock in half and staggered the
scarfs. I was able to hide one of my scarfs (I finished my spars
bright) by wrapping it with rope, as anti-chaffing where it rubs the
mast. The fancier members of the list (cough*Peter*cough) used
stitched leathers for anti-chaffing.
Bill
Ditto for me- for my boom I ripped my stock in half and staggered the
scarfs. I was able to hide one of my scarfs (I finished my spars
bright) by wrapping it with rope, as anti-chaffing where it rubs the
mast. The fancier members of the list (cough*Peter*cough) used
stitched leathers for anti-chaffing.
Bill
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
>
> Even if I have the proper length timber for a spar I always rip it in
> two reverse the pieces and glue it back up. Makes for a stabler
piece of
> wood and no defect goes all the way through.
>
> HJ
>
> Col wrote:
> > Hi group,
> > Am making my last remaining spar for Micro (main boom). I have lots
> > of 2x2 inch douglas fir but none long enough for the job. Is normal
> > scarfing sufficiently strong , or should I rip the timber in half and
> > laminate it up to the desired length? (epoxy and structural filler
> > used for gluing).
> > Thanks,
> > Col
> >
> >
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging
dead horses
> > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred'
posts
> > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
On Dec 5, 2007 3:03 AM, Col <cmoone11@...> wrote:
Though personally, I would be satisfied with a 1:8 scarf.
>I ditto Peter's advice that a 1 1/2" nominal square is not big enough.
> Peter,
> Yes the plans specify 2" square, 14'6" long. Thanks for the tip re
> the scarf length, should make for some fun woodwork.
>
> Col
>
> Wow thats a long scarf - I'll have to hone up my wookwork skills.---
Though personally, I would be satisfied with a 1:8 scarf.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Col" <cmoone11@...> wrote:
With a well honed blade on that well seasoned wood,it'll go
quickly,trust me :-) Besides, a regular jack plane just about covers
half the 24 inches you'll be planning. Just take your time, check
often with a square and when it is all perfectly true,put a small
(1/16"+) hollow on the faying surfaces while keeping about an inch
away from either ends of the scarf slope.The visible end seams will
be tight,as with the perimeter seams, and epoxy will still be in the
joint.
Check in here to review what I mean by hollow:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/files/How%20To/
Aim for high standards!!
Sincerely,
Peter
>re
> Peter,
> Yes the plans specify 2" square, 14'6" long. Thanks for the tip
> the scarf length, should make for some fun woodwork.Col,
>
> Col
>
> Wow thats a long scarf - I'll have to hone up my wookwork skills
With a well honed blade on that well seasoned wood,it'll go
quickly,trust me :-) Besides, a regular jack plane just about covers
half the 24 inches you'll be planning. Just take your time, check
often with a square and when it is all perfectly true,put a small
(1/16"+) hollow on the faying surfaces while keeping about an inch
away from either ends of the scarf slope.The visible end seams will
be tight,as with the perimeter seams, and epoxy will still be in the
joint.
Check in here to review what I mean by hollow:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/files/How%20To/
Aim for high standards!!
Sincerely,
Peter
Thanks for that Harry,
I just read Peters response who suggested that a scarf would be
sufficient, but your suggestion sounds equally valid. I'll check my
timber and if I find any faults I might try ripping it, but from
memory it looks pretty good. When I bought this timber about 10
years ago I was told it came from the forests of north America or
Canada and exported to Australia - sorry guys. It was relatively
cheap too, dry, clear and close grained. My local supplier doesn't
stock it now as they can't get any clear lengths. I'd hate to think
what the set of Micro spars would cost me at todays prices. You
don't appreciate something until its gone...
Col
I just read Peters response who suggested that a scarf would be
sufficient, but your suggestion sounds equally valid. I'll check my
timber and if I find any faults I might try ripping it, but from
memory it looks pretty good. When I bought this timber about 10
years ago I was told it came from the forests of north America or
Canada and exported to Australia - sorry guys. It was relatively
cheap too, dry, clear and close grained. My local supplier doesn't
stock it now as they can't get any clear lengths. I'd hate to think
what the set of Micro spars would cost me at todays prices. You
don't appreciate something until its gone...
Col
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
>
> Even if I have the proper length timber for a spar I always rip it
in
> two reverse the pieces and glue it back up. Makes for a stabler
piece of
> wood and no defect goes all the way through.
>
> HJ
>
> Col wrote:
> > Hi group,
> > Am making my last remaining spar for Micro (main boom). I have
lots
> > of 2x2 inch douglas fir but none long enough for the job. Is
normal
> > scarfing sufficiently strong , or should I rip the timber in
half and
> > laminate it up to the desired length? (epoxy and structural
filler
> > used for gluing).
> > Thanks,
> > Col
> >
> >
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or
flogging dead horses
> > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks,
Fred' posts
> > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip
away
> > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-
subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
Peter,
Yes the plans specify 2" square, 14'6" long. Thanks for the tip re
the scarf length, should make for some fun woodwork.
Col
Wow thats a long scarf - I'll have to hone up my wookwork skills.---
Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Lenihan" <peterlenihan@...> wrote:
Yes the plans specify 2" square, 14'6" long. Thanks for the tip re
the scarf length, should make for some fun woodwork.
Col
Wow thats a long scarf - I'll have to hone up my wookwork skills.---
Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Lenihan" <peterlenihan@...> wrote:
>lots
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Col" <cmoone11@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Hi group,
> > Am making my last remaining spar for Micro (main boom). I have
> > of 2x2 inch douglas fir but none long enough for the job. Isnormal
> > scarfing sufficiently strong , or should I rip the timber inhalf
> andfiller
> > laminate it up to the desired length? (epoxy and structural
> > used for gluing).be
> > Thanks,
> > Col
> >
>
> Hi Col,
>
> If by"normal scarfing" you mean a 12:1 ratio, then yes, it will
> planty strong for its' purpose.do
> 2 X 2 seems a bit on the small sided for the main sprit boom.I
> not recall what is called for on the plans but I do remember mineas
> being closer to 3 X 3 but six sided to take off some of the weightand
> apparent bulk.
>
> Peter
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Col" <cmoone11@...> wrote:
If by"normal scarfing" you mean a 12:1 ratio, then yes, it will be
planty strong for its' purpose.
2 X 2 seems a bit on the small sided for the main sprit boom.I do
not recall what is called for on the plans but I do remember mine as
being closer to 3 X 3 but six sided to take off some of the weight and
apparent bulk.
Peter
>and
>
> Hi group,
> Am making my last remaining spar for Micro (main boom). I have lots
> of 2x2 inch douglas fir but none long enough for the job. Is normal
> scarfing sufficiently strong , or should I rip the timber in half
> laminate it up to the desired length? (epoxy and structural fillerHi Col,
> used for gluing).
> Thanks,
> Col
>
If by"normal scarfing" you mean a 12:1 ratio, then yes, it will be
planty strong for its' purpose.
2 X 2 seems a bit on the small sided for the main sprit boom.I do
not recall what is called for on the plans but I do remember mine as
being closer to 3 X 3 but six sided to take off some of the weight and
apparent bulk.
Peter
Even if I have the proper length timber for a spar I always rip it in
two reverse the pieces and glue it back up. Makes for a stabler piece of
wood and no defect goes all the way through.
HJ
Col wrote:
two reverse the pieces and glue it back up. Makes for a stabler piece of
wood and no defect goes all the way through.
HJ
Col wrote:
> Hi group,
> Am making my last remaining spar for Micro (main boom). I have lots
> of 2x2 inch douglas fir but none long enough for the job. Is normal
> scarfing sufficiently strong , or should I rip the timber in half and
> laminate it up to the desired length? (epoxy and structural filler
> used for gluing).
> Thanks,
> Col
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
Hi group,
Am making my last remaining spar for Micro (main boom). I have lots
of 2x2 inch douglas fir but none long enough for the job. Is normal
scarfing sufficiently strong , or should I rip the timber in half and
laminate it up to the desired length? (epoxy and structural filler
used for gluing).
Thanks,
Col
Am making my last remaining spar for Micro (main boom). I have lots
of 2x2 inch douglas fir but none long enough for the job. Is normal
scarfing sufficiently strong , or should I rip the timber in half and
laminate it up to the desired length? (epoxy and structural filler
used for gluing).
Thanks,
Col