Re: [bolger] Re: Sticky question on epoxies
There used to be a Windermere Valley Brewing Co. in BC, but it appears
that they closed down several years ago. :o(
http://beerexpedition.com/bc/b_04412.shtml
that they closed down several years ago. :o(
http://beerexpedition.com/bc/b_04412.shtml
On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 03:30:12 -0800, Peter L wrote:
> ...
> Peter Lenihan, somewhat saddened, upon learning,that in fact, such
> beer, called WINDERMERE, neither far nor near, exists for me.........I
> think I'll shed a tear.........
--
John <jkohnen@...>
Power always has to be kept in check; power exercised in secret,
especially under the cloak of national security, is doubly
dangerous. <William Proxmire>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Lenihan" <peterlenihan@...> wrote:
try guzzling _windermere beer_, and you're sure to get some. Ooops, I
mean googling it. 147000 returns, eg Widermere Valley Brewing in BC (up
your way),http://beerexpedition.com/bc/b_04412.shtml
Raising cold Windermeres, downing cold Windermeres, toasting a
Windermere launching - sounds good!
Graeme
(or there's a so-so dry cider from SA?)
> Peter Lenihan, somewhat saddened, upon learning,that in fact, suchme.........I
> beer, called WINDERMERE, neither far nor near, exists for
> think I'll shed a tear.........Peter,
>
try guzzling _windermere beer_, and you're sure to get some. Ooops, I
mean googling it. 147000 returns, eg Widermere Valley Brewing in BC (up
your way),http://beerexpedition.com/bc/b_04412.shtml
Raising cold Windermeres, downing cold Windermeres, toasting a
Windermere launching - sounds good!
Graeme
(or there's a so-so dry cider from SA?)
Had to be at a outing at Flounders Day last year David had some sissy
drink with a umbrela. Hand full of umbrelas by the end of the night
but the stories where great.
Jon
drink with a umbrela. Hand full of umbrelas by the end of the night
but the stories where great.
Jon
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen" <jhkohnen@...> wrote:
>
> After a few pints of their Hefeweizen if you try to say "Widmer
beer" fast
> it sorta sounds like "Windermere." Is that close enough, Peter? Jon
must
> have overheard David ordering some more Hefeweizen at last year's
> Flounder's Day (Dec. 28th) feast in the Megalopolis... <g>
>
> On Mon, 17 Dec 2007 07:39:56 -0800, David G wrote:
>
> > Well, not exactly windermere. There is a small brewery that was
> > started by Kurt & Rob Widmer....
>
> --
> John <jkohnen@...>
> Heaven, as conventionally conceived, is a place so inane, so
> dull, so useless, so miserable, that nobody has ever ventured to
> describe a whole day in heaven, though plenty of people have
> described a day at the seashore. <G. B. Shaw>
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen" <jhkohnen@...> wrote:
sold my soul to Le Fin Du Monde,Le Diable and deep dark Ports.It'll
take considerably more then "a few pints" to have me stumble......but
I'm certainly willing to give it a try.....do they deliver? :-)
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan, somewhat saddened, upon learning,that in fact, such
beer, called WINDERMERE, neither far nor near, exists for me.........I
think I'll shed a tear.........
>beer" fast
> After a few pints of their Hefeweizen if you try to say "Widmer
> it sorta sounds like "Windermere." Is that close enough, Peter? Jonmust
> have overheard David ordering some more Hefeweizen at last year'sAh John, you forget that I have tasted all the strongest meats and
> Flounder's Day (Dec. 28th) feast in the Megalopolis... <g>
sold my soul to Le Fin Du Monde,Le Diable and deep dark Ports.It'll
take considerably more then "a few pints" to have me stumble......but
I'm certainly willing to give it a try.....do they deliver? :-)
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan, somewhat saddened, upon learning,that in fact, such
beer, called WINDERMERE, neither far nor near, exists for me.........I
think I'll shed a tear.........
After a few pints of their Hefeweizen if you try to say "Widmer beer" fast
it sorta sounds like "Windermere." Is that close enough, Peter? Jon must
have overheard David ordering some more Hefeweizen at last year's
Flounder's Day (Dec. 28th) feast in the Megalopolis... <g>
it sorta sounds like "Windermere." Is that close enough, Peter? Jon must
have overheard David ordering some more Hefeweizen at last year's
Flounder's Day (Dec. 28th) feast in the Megalopolis... <g>
On Mon, 17 Dec 2007 07:39:56 -0800, David G wrote:
> Well, not exactly windermere. There is a small brewery that was
> started by Kurt & Rob Widmer....
--
John <jkohnen@...>
Heaven, as conventionally conceived, is a place so inane, so
dull, so useless, so miserable, that nobody has ever ventured to
describe a whole day in heaven, though plenty of people have
described a day at the seashore. <G. B. Shaw>
HayZooos John - don't say it out loud!!
Cheers,
David Graybeal
Heart of Cootland
"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" -- Ben Franklin
********************
Cheers,
David Graybeal
Heart of Cootland
"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" -- Ben Franklin
********************
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen" <jhkohnen@...> wrote:
>
> Coots? <g>
>
> On Mon, 17 Dec 2007 12:45:29 -0800, David J wrote:
>
> > Been lurking on this thread for a while after reading the dreaded "C"
> > word.
> > ...
>
> --
> John <jkohnen@...>
> School days, I believe, are the unhappiest in the whole span of
> human existence . They are full of dull, unintelligible tasks,
> new and unpleasant ordinances, brutal violations of common sense
> and common decency. <H. L. Mencken>
>
Coots? <g>
On Mon, 17 Dec 2007 12:45:29 -0800, David J wrote:
> Been lurking on this thread for a while after reading the dreaded "C"
> word.
> ...
--
John <jkohnen@...>
School days, I believe, are the unhappiest in the whole span of
human existence . They are full of dull, unintelligible tasks,
new and unpleasant ordinances, brutal violations of common sense
and common decency. <H. L. Mencken>
Never fear that Kristine...
_____
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Kristine Bennett
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 11:30 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Sticky question on epoxies
You know some of us gave those things up willingly... I never wanted
to be what they said I was in the first place.... I'm happy with the
shape of the body now...
Hmmm maybe that's to much info for the faint hearted males in
here....
From my viewpoint I enjoyed boats and building then no matter what
my gender was.
Blessings Krissie
Better get back to day dreaming about how nice and comfy WINDERMERE
is
going to be once she is launched and/or this weeks up coming work in
the Captains quarters,like lining the closest with aromatic cedar
and
taking off the dimensions for the doors......God! Just about
anything
to erase the soldering iron down"there" image...ouch!ouch!ouch!!!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan, mercifully not a hypocondriac....yet!
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.
Try it now.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
_____
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Kristine Bennett
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 11:30 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Sticky question on epoxies
You know some of us gave those things up willingly... I never wanted
to be what they said I was in the first place.... I'm happy with the
shape of the body now...
Hmmm maybe that's to much info for the faint hearted males in
here....
From my viewpoint I enjoyed boats and building then no matter what
my gender was.
Blessings Krissie
Better get back to day dreaming about how nice and comfy WINDERMERE
is
going to be once she is launched and/or this weeks up coming work in
the Captains quarters,like lining the closest with aromatic cedar
and
taking off the dimensions for the doors......God! Just about
anything
to erase the soldering iron down"there" image...ouch!ouch!ouch!!!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan, mercifully not a hypocondriac....yet!
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.
Try it now.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Some serious stuff on epoxy.
Epoxy fumes are heavier than air and will sink to the bottom of your shop. Leaving a door open will allow these fumes to disipate.
Before I open the first container, I go by the local drugstore and buy a box of latex gloves (vinyl works too, but don't fit as well). The gloves go on when I start to mix and stay on until I'm finished. Aside from protection, this helps with cleanup. It is also a good idea to pull the glove up over your watch....
There are those who never get epoxy on their clothes; I am not one of them. I keep a dedicated pair of jeans and a sweat shirt for epoxy work.
Vinegar will remove epoxy from your skin and is more benign than other solvents.
Epoxy by itself is relatively harmless, but sanding dust is not.
The first defense against dust is to apply the epoxy as neatly and smoothly as possible. I try to do any coating while the panels are flat. When working "in the round", I try to mask where drips and runs are likely and I try to clean up runs as they occur.
I use a Sandvik carbide scraper to clean up runs and the raised part of fg tape. This works best while the epoxy is still "green". The resulting shavings don't get in the air (but will stick to things if you don't clean them up promptly).
I use a random orbital sander (haven't found one that lasts yet--replace 'em as necessary) hooked to a Fein shop vac (which is expensive, but relatively quiet) and this reduces the dust in the air by a huge amount. I good quality dusk mask takes care of much of the rest. (Keep your dust masks in a tupperware container when ot in use--there is always a lot of dust in the shop and you want to keep your dust masks clean). Vacuum accumulated dust rather than seep it up--sweeping or brushing kicks a lot of dust into the air.
Finally, I have an aircleaner which hangs on the shop ceiling and helps keep the dust down.
I haven't always done all of these things and I'm still here. If need be, I could skip a lot of the recemmendations above, but I would not tackle epoxy without gloves and good dust masks.
Have fun and stay safe.
JohnT
Epoxy fumes are heavier than air and will sink to the bottom of your shop. Leaving a door open will allow these fumes to disipate.
Before I open the first container, I go by the local drugstore and buy a box of latex gloves (vinyl works too, but don't fit as well). The gloves go on when I start to mix and stay on until I'm finished. Aside from protection, this helps with cleanup. It is also a good idea to pull the glove up over your watch....
There are those who never get epoxy on their clothes; I am not one of them. I keep a dedicated pair of jeans and a sweat shirt for epoxy work.
Vinegar will remove epoxy from your skin and is more benign than other solvents.
Epoxy by itself is relatively harmless, but sanding dust is not.
The first defense against dust is to apply the epoxy as neatly and smoothly as possible. I try to do any coating while the panels are flat. When working "in the round", I try to mask where drips and runs are likely and I try to clean up runs as they occur.
I use a Sandvik carbide scraper to clean up runs and the raised part of fg tape. This works best while the epoxy is still "green". The resulting shavings don't get in the air (but will stick to things if you don't clean them up promptly).
I use a random orbital sander (haven't found one that lasts yet--replace 'em as necessary) hooked to a Fein shop vac (which is expensive, but relatively quiet) and this reduces the dust in the air by a huge amount. I good quality dusk mask takes care of much of the rest. (Keep your dust masks in a tupperware container when ot in use--there is always a lot of dust in the shop and you want to keep your dust masks clean). Vacuum accumulated dust rather than seep it up--sweeping or brushing kicks a lot of dust into the air.
Finally, I have an aircleaner which hangs on the shop ceiling and helps keep the dust down.
I haven't always done all of these things and I'm still here. If need be, I could skip a lot of the recemmendations above, but I would not tackle epoxy without gloves and good dust masks.
Have fun and stay safe.
JohnT
----- Original Message -----
From: Jon & Wanda(Tink)
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 12:59 AM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Sticky question on epoxies
Depending on temp after 24 hours epoxy is set to where it is
nontacky. To be fully cured may take another week and the grip on the
SS screw just gets better. Sanding on it when set makes sanding easy
but as it cures sanding gets harder. Where a lot of backyard boat
builders make a mistake sanding is not wearing a resperator when it
is just set and can have a alergic reaction.
Jon
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, catboat15@... wrote:
>
> Epoxy is strange stuff. I goofed on the sheathing on my Car Topper
and a
> friend who applies sheathing to aircraft gave me a hint. I used a
heat gun to
> soften the epoxy and the glass just peeled off in one big sheet.
Also when
> building a Swifty small S.S. wood screws are used to holed the ply
in place and
> removed after the epoxy sets up. I found that if I pulled the
screws the next
> day there was no problem, but two days and the screws had to be
heated to
> remove. (Let a phillips screw driver in the battery drill spin a
bit and the
> screw is hot enough to come right out.)
>
> Epoxy is softened by both heat and UV light. So if you build
outside throw
> on a coat of primer as soon as you can or you will find some joints
coming
> loose. (I was startled when one of my rub rails popped out where it
was bent
> hard.)
>
> Bolger, Payson Car topper
> 14-9 foot Swifty
> John Meacham
>
>
>
>
> **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes
> (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.17.4/1188 - Release Date: 12/17/2007 2:13 PM
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Depending on temp after 24 hours epoxy is set to where it is
nontacky. To be fully cured may take another week and the grip on the
SS screw just gets better. Sanding on it when set makes sanding easy
but as it cures sanding gets harder. Where a lot of backyard boat
builders make a mistake sanding is not wearing a resperator when it
is just set and can have a alergic reaction.
Jon
nontacky. To be fully cured may take another week and the grip on the
SS screw just gets better. Sanding on it when set makes sanding easy
but as it cures sanding gets harder. Where a lot of backyard boat
builders make a mistake sanding is not wearing a resperator when it
is just set and can have a alergic reaction.
Jon
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, catboat15@... wrote:
>
> Epoxy is strange stuff. I goofed on the sheathing on my Car Topper
and a
> friend who applies sheathing to aircraft gave me a hint. I used a
heat gun to
> soften the epoxy and the glass just peeled off in one big sheet.
Also when
> building a Swifty small S.S. wood screws are used to holed the ply
in place and
> removed after the epoxy sets up. I found that if I pulled the
screws the next
> day there was no problem, but two days and the screws had to be
heated to
> remove. (Let a phillips screw driver in the battery drill spin a
bit and the
> screw is hot enough to come right out.)
>
> Epoxy is softened by both heat and UV light. So if you build
outside throw
> on a coat of primer as soon as you can or you will find some joints
coming
> loose. (I was startled when one of my rub rails popped out where it
was bent
> hard.)
>
> Bolger, Payson Car topper
> 14-9 foot Swifty
> John Meacham
>
>
>
>
> **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes
> (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Epoxy is strange stuff. I goofed on the sheathing on my Car Topper and a
friend who applies sheathing to aircraft gave me a hint. I used a heat gun to
soften the epoxy and the glass just peeled off in one big sheet. Also when
building a Swifty small S.S. wood screws are used to holed the ply in place and
removed after the epoxy sets up. I found that if I pulled the screws the next
day there was no problem, but two days and the screws had to be heated to
remove. (Let a phillips screw driver in the battery drill spin a bit and the
screw is hot enough to come right out.)
Epoxy is softened by both heat and UV light. So if you build outside throw
on a coat of primer as soon as you can or you will find some joints coming
loose. (I was startled when one of my rub rails popped out where it was bent
hard.)
Bolger, Payson Car topper
14-9 foot Swifty
John Meacham
**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
friend who applies sheathing to aircraft gave me a hint. I used a heat gun to
soften the epoxy and the glass just peeled off in one big sheet. Also when
building a Swifty small S.S. wood screws are used to holed the ply in place and
removed after the epoxy sets up. I found that if I pulled the screws the next
day there was no problem, but two days and the screws had to be heated to
remove. (Let a phillips screw driver in the battery drill spin a bit and the
screw is hot enough to come right out.)
Epoxy is softened by both heat and UV light. So if you build outside throw
on a coat of primer as soon as you can or you will find some joints coming
loose. (I was startled when one of my rub rails popped out where it was bent
hard.)
Bolger, Payson Car topper
14-9 foot Swifty
John Meacham
**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Well I don't think epoxy had a thing to do with it... I think it was more to do with mom being on birth control when I started my way into this life. :) Mom and Dad were also told I was not going to see my 5th birthday... A good thing the Dr. was WRONG! I beat that 5 year mark by 45 years!
I've worked with Epoxy, Polyester, Vinylester, and I'm still here. But I alway used gloves and did my best to keep clean when working with the stuff.
Blessings all!
Krissie
"Jon & Wanda(Tink)" <windyjon@...> wrote: LOL so what kind of cancer are you going to blaim on epoxy.
Jon
I've worked with Epoxy, Polyester, Vinylester, and I'm still here. But I alway used gloves and did my best to keep clean when working with the stuff.
Blessings all!
Krissie
"Jon & Wanda(Tink)" <windyjon@...> wrote: LOL so what kind of cancer are you going to blaim on epoxy.
Jon
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Kristine Bennett <femmpaws@...> wrote:
>
> You know some of us gave those things up willingly... I never wanted
to be what they said I was in the first place.... I'm happy with the
shape of the body now...
>
> Hmmm maybe that's to much info for the faint hearted males in
here....
>
> From my viewpoint I enjoyed boats and building then no matter what my
gender was.
> Blessings Krissie
---------------------------------
Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
LOL so what kind of cancer are you going to blaim on epoxy.
Jon
Jon
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Kristine Bennett <femmpaws@...> wrote:
>
> You know some of us gave those things up willingly... I never wanted
to be what they said I was in the first place.... I'm happy with the
shape of the body now...
>
> Hmmm maybe that's to much info for the faint hearted males in
here....
>
> From my viewpoint I enjoyed boats and building then no matter what my
gender was.
> Blessings Krissie
You know some of us gave those things up willingly... I never wanted to be what they said I was in the first place.... I'm happy with the shape of the body now...
Hmmm maybe that's to much info for the faint hearted males in here....
From my viewpoint I enjoyed boats and building then no matter what my gender was.
Blessings Krissie
Better get back to day dreaming about how nice and comfy WINDERMERE is
going to be once she is launched and/or this weeks up coming work in
the Captains quarters,like lining the closest with aromatic cedar and
taking off the dimensions for the doors......God! Just about anything
to erase the soldering iron down"there" image...ouch!ouch!ouch!!!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan, mercifully not a hypocondriac....yet!
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Hmmm maybe that's to much info for the faint hearted males in here....
From my viewpoint I enjoyed boats and building then no matter what my gender was.
Blessings Krissie
Better get back to day dreaming about how nice and comfy WINDERMERE is
going to be once she is launched and/or this weeks up coming work in
the Captains quarters,like lining the closest with aromatic cedar and
taking off the dimensions for the doors......God! Just about anything
to erase the soldering iron down"there" image...ouch!ouch!ouch!!!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan, mercifully not a hypocondriac....yet!
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
If nurse's stories make you uneasy, I recommend, in the strongest possible terms, that you avoid medical malpractice claims adjusters!
JohnT
JohnT
----- Original Message -----
From: Jon & Wanda(Tink)
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 4:13 AM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Sticky question on epoxies
Best discription for lack of medical term. Go for it medical people
can be farted in front of and see it as normal. They can even talk
about the bodaly functions every one has and most deny. Just try to
keep from visualizing so much. In these parts Windermere is a micro
brew David knows well but those are other stories best told by him.
Jon
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Lenihan" <peterlenihan@...>
wrote:
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jon & Wanda(Tink)" <windyjon@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Now David has been knowen to tell realy tall tails..... It was in
> the
> > days they still used the soldering irons to stop the bleaders and
no
> > one ran anywhere fast yet alone ran. The wife was in the medical
> > field for a lot of years and her question was why was someone
useing
> > epoxy there. But then we won't get into the stories the nurse
types
> > can tell LOL
>
> Oh dear! I'm with a nurse in real life! Anything I should know Jon
> before I get ahead of myself and propose on bended knee? :-)
> Soldering irons? Down"there"?! I'm getting light headed, you know,
> just before one passes out....the imagery is too much for me :-O
>
> Better get back to day dreaming about how nice and comfy WINDERMERE
is
> going to be once she is launched and/or this weeks up coming work
in
> the Captains quarters,like lining the closest with aromatic cedar
and
> taking off the dimensions for the doors......God! Just about
anything
> to erase the soldering iron down"there" image...ouch!ouch!ouch!!!
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Peter Lenihan, mercifully not a hypocondriac....yet!
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.17.4/1188 - Release Date: 12/17/2007 2:13 PM
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Hi: Am trying to find if Dural is still made. I assumed it was
because I just bought 3 boxes at a hardware store but now cannot find
at Durals site. Apologies, Mark
Jim Michalak offers the following at
http://ftp.apci.net/~michalak/15Dec04.htm
GLUE
Since we're on the topic of scarphing, we should address glue. Many
of us in the Midwest have noticed that DAP's Weldwood plastic resin
glue is getting awfully hard to find. In Madison, WI I had to order
it online. This would be fine, but the shipping charges make the
price a bit high, and when you run short, you're out of luck.
Well, I ran short. I had read on Dave Beede's site (famous for his
PVC cleats), simplicityboats.com, of various experiments using PL
Premium in place of epoxy. This even included stitch & tape
construction! I did a little reading on PL400 and have been using it
on the schooner since I ran out of Weldwood. The experiments on
Beede's site are testing the limits of the material, but gluing wood
to wood, fastened with nails or screws is EXACTLY what PL400 is
designed for. PL Premium is probably overkill for this.
Benefits include:
Locally available anywhere there is a construction trade of any kind -
even on weekends! WaterPROOF (Weldwood is only water resistant)
Fast to use - no mixing
No need for containers, mixing sticks or spreaders
Bridges up to 3/8" gap
Thixotrophic - doesn't dribble down the sides when you glue the
bottom on
Possibly cheaper than Weldwood when purchased in 28oz contractor size
tubes
Low temperature curing - 10 degrees F!
That last benefit is important for many of us. Weldwood requires 70
degree temperatures to fully cure. Most of us want to be BOATING when
it's 70 degrees! We need a winter adhesive, since that's when we
build stuff. PL400 can be applied at 10 degrees. That is serious
winter building capability. I was going to get more Weldwood for my
spars, but I think I'm switching to PL400.
There are some other options out there now as well. Titebond III is
also waterproof, and will cure at 47 degrees F. But it is nowhere
near as strong as Weldwood and it only gives you about 10 minutes
from when you start spreading the glue to when your clamping should
be done. As easy to use as any carpenter's glue, it's pretty
expensive. Titebond II is cheaper and water resistant, like Weldwood,
but only allows 5 minutes assembly time after glue is spread. Again,
it's nowhere near as strong as Weldwood. Weldwood gives you a 4 hour
pot life at 70 degrees, which is its greatest strength. I was hopeful
about these new glues, since they are locally available, but it seems
they don't measure up well to Weldwood.
NOTE: If you ask for Weldwood in Midwestern hardware stores, they
will direct you to a large assortment of contact cements with the
Weldwood brand name. These are not what you want. You want Weldwood
Plastic Resin Glue. Don't be surprised if they have never heard of it
and think you're off your rocker. Even the really good old-line
hardware store here in Madison, WI dropped this adhesive 2 years ago,
and only the real old-timers can even remember it!
Of course, Epoxy works rather well for any of these applications. But
I find it messy, expensive, and a huge pain in the butt to sand.
PL400 is certainly messy, but I can cut away the mess with a sharp
chisel.
because I just bought 3 boxes at a hardware store but now cannot find
at Durals site. Apologies, Mark
Jim Michalak offers the following at
http://ftp.apci.net/~michalak/15Dec04.htm
GLUE
Since we're on the topic of scarphing, we should address glue. Many
of us in the Midwest have noticed that DAP's Weldwood plastic resin
glue is getting awfully hard to find. In Madison, WI I had to order
it online. This would be fine, but the shipping charges make the
price a bit high, and when you run short, you're out of luck.
Well, I ran short. I had read on Dave Beede's site (famous for his
PVC cleats), simplicityboats.com, of various experiments using PL
Premium in place of epoxy. This even included stitch & tape
construction! I did a little reading on PL400 and have been using it
on the schooner since I ran out of Weldwood. The experiments on
Beede's site are testing the limits of the material, but gluing wood
to wood, fastened with nails or screws is EXACTLY what PL400 is
designed for. PL Premium is probably overkill for this.
Benefits include:
Locally available anywhere there is a construction trade of any kind -
even on weekends! WaterPROOF (Weldwood is only water resistant)
Fast to use - no mixing
No need for containers, mixing sticks or spreaders
Bridges up to 3/8" gap
Thixotrophic - doesn't dribble down the sides when you glue the
bottom on
Possibly cheaper than Weldwood when purchased in 28oz contractor size
tubes
Low temperature curing - 10 degrees F!
That last benefit is important for many of us. Weldwood requires 70
degree temperatures to fully cure. Most of us want to be BOATING when
it's 70 degrees! We need a winter adhesive, since that's when we
build stuff. PL400 can be applied at 10 degrees. That is serious
winter building capability. I was going to get more Weldwood for my
spars, but I think I'm switching to PL400.
There are some other options out there now as well. Titebond III is
also waterproof, and will cure at 47 degrees F. But it is nowhere
near as strong as Weldwood and it only gives you about 10 minutes
from when you start spreading the glue to when your clamping should
be done. As easy to use as any carpenter's glue, it's pretty
expensive. Titebond II is cheaper and water resistant, like Weldwood,
but only allows 5 minutes assembly time after glue is spread. Again,
it's nowhere near as strong as Weldwood. Weldwood gives you a 4 hour
pot life at 70 degrees, which is its greatest strength. I was hopeful
about these new glues, since they are locally available, but it seems
they don't measure up well to Weldwood.
NOTE: If you ask for Weldwood in Midwestern hardware stores, they
will direct you to a large assortment of contact cements with the
Weldwood brand name. These are not what you want. You want Weldwood
Plastic Resin Glue. Don't be surprised if they have never heard of it
and think you're off your rocker. Even the really good old-line
hardware store here in Madison, WI dropped this adhesive 2 years ago,
and only the real old-timers can even remember it!
Of course, Epoxy works rather well for any of these applications. But
I find it messy, expensive, and a huge pain in the butt to sand.
PL400 is certainly messy, but I can cut away the mess with a sharp
chisel.
Been lurking on this thread for a while after reading the dreaded "C"
word.
My first build was a Bolger Nymph over 23 years ago and still going
strong. Rails were glued with Plastic Resin Glue, and the boat
coated and fiberglassed with polyesther resin. Yes, I developed
cancer shortly after and then switched to epoxy on the assumption
that fewer vapors made it less toxic. There is probably no
correlation between the two, but I still take great pains to stay
clean, wear respirators, gloves and disposable clothing for any epoxy
glueing projects.
this thread may convince me to go back to polyester with the same
precautions I am currently using. The epoxy is very expensive on a
big project such as Birdwatcher. I used quite a bit of it glueing
the transom for the Clam skiff as well. It does hold up well over
time, if carefully applied. Although it makes for a heavy boat.
Someday I may finish one of these. Looks like the Clam skiff is
ahead by a slim margin.
David Jost
word.
My first build was a Bolger Nymph over 23 years ago and still going
strong. Rails were glued with Plastic Resin Glue, and the boat
coated and fiberglassed with polyesther resin. Yes, I developed
cancer shortly after and then switched to epoxy on the assumption
that fewer vapors made it less toxic. There is probably no
correlation between the two, but I still take great pains to stay
clean, wear respirators, gloves and disposable clothing for any epoxy
glueing projects.
this thread may convince me to go back to polyester with the same
precautions I am currently using. The epoxy is very expensive on a
big project such as Birdwatcher. I used quite a bit of it glueing
the transom for the Clam skiff as well. It does hold up well over
time, if carefully applied. Although it makes for a heavy boat.
Someday I may finish one of these. Looks like the Clam skiff is
ahead by a slim margin.
David Jost
Manufacturers of an inexpensive Marine plastic resin glue Dural AM18.
There is a similar made in the US and mentioned by Payson. Have used it
with great results.
http://www.adhesivesandsealants.com/storefronts/dural.html
There is a similar made in the US and mentioned by Payson. Have used it
with great results.
http://www.adhesivesandsealants.com/storefronts/dural.html
Peter,
Well, not exactly windermere. There is a small brewery that was
started by Kurt & Rob Widmer. They were one of the early successes of
the local microbrew scene. Their dad (who helped them get started)
lives near me, and we chat a bit when I walk the dog. Fin old fellow.
My old shop was strategically located withing walking distance of
their facility, and on occasion we'd go up for lunch and a pint, or
send one of the boys up for a growler. They make a mighty fine Hefeweizen.
Prozit,
David Graybeal,
Portland OR.
"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" -- Benjamin
Franklin
**************
Well, not exactly windermere. There is a small brewery that was
started by Kurt & Rob Widmer. They were one of the early successes of
the local microbrew scene. Their dad (who helped them get started)
lives near me, and we chat a bit when I walk the dog. Fin old fellow.
My old shop was strategically located withing walking distance of
their facility, and on occasion we'd go up for lunch and a pint, or
send one of the boys up for a growler. They make a mighty fine Hefeweizen.
Prozit,
David Graybeal,
Portland OR.
"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" -- Benjamin
Franklin
**************
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Lenihan" <peterlenihan@...> wrote:
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jon & Wanda(Tink)" <windyjon@>
> wrote:
> In these parts Windermere is a micro
> > brew David knows well but those are other stories best told by him.
> >
> > Jon
>
> Well blow me wild and call me windy!!! There is actually a beer out
> there called WINDERMERE!?!?
> I'll have to order me a case or two for launching day.Have you got a
> brewery name or address or web site I could look into Jon?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Peter Lenihan, suddenly overcome by a fierce thirst for beer,despite
> the winter blizzard howling outside the window as I type.........
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jon & Wanda(Tink)" <windyjon@...>
wrote:
In these parts Windermere is a micro
there called WINDERMERE!?!?
I'll have to order me a case or two for launching day.Have you got a
brewery name or address or web site I could look into Jon?
Thanks!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan, suddenly overcome by a fierce thirst for beer,despite
the winter blizzard howling outside the window as I type.........
wrote:
In these parts Windermere is a micro
> brew David knows well but those are other stories best told by him.Well blow me wild and call me windy!!! There is actually a beer out
>
> Jon
there called WINDERMERE!?!?
I'll have to order me a case or two for launching day.Have you got a
brewery name or address or web site I could look into Jon?
Thanks!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan, suddenly overcome by a fierce thirst for beer,despite
the winter blizzard howling outside the window as I type.........
Best discription for lack of medical term. Go for it medical people
can be farted in front of and see it as normal. They can even talk
about the bodaly functions every one has and most deny. Just try to
keep from visualizing so much. In these parts Windermere is a micro
brew David knows well but those are other stories best told by him.
Jon
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Lenihan" <peterlenihan@...>
wrote:
can be farted in front of and see it as normal. They can even talk
about the bodaly functions every one has and most deny. Just try to
keep from visualizing so much. In these parts Windermere is a micro
brew David knows well but those are other stories best told by him.
Jon
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Lenihan" <peterlenihan@...>
wrote:
>no
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jon & Wanda(Tink)" <windyjon@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Now David has been knowen to tell realy tall tails..... It was in
> the
> > days they still used the soldering irons to stop the bleaders and
> > one ran anywhere fast yet alone ran. The wife was in the medicaluseing
> > field for a lot of years and her question was why was someone
> > epoxy there. But then we won't get into the stories the nursetypes
> > can tell LOLis
>
> Oh dear! I'm with a nurse in real life! Anything I should know Jon
> before I get ahead of myself and propose on bended knee? :-)
> Soldering irons? Down"there"?! I'm getting light headed, you know,
> just before one passes out....the imagery is too much for me :-O
>
> Better get back to day dreaming about how nice and comfy WINDERMERE
> going to be once she is launched and/or this weeks up coming workin
> the Captains quarters,like lining the closest with aromatic cedarand
> taking off the dimensions for the doors......God! Just aboutanything
> to erase the soldering iron down"there" image...ouch!ouch!ouch!!!
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Peter Lenihan, mercifully not a hypocondriac....yet!
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jon & Wanda(Tink)" <windyjon@...>
wrote:
before I get ahead of myself and propose on bended knee? :-)
Soldering irons? Down"there"?! I'm getting light headed, you know,
just before one passes out....the imagery is too much for me :-O
Better get back to day dreaming about how nice and comfy WINDERMERE is
going to be once she is launched and/or this weeks up coming work in
the Captains quarters,like lining the closest with aromatic cedar and
taking off the dimensions for the doors......God! Just about anything
to erase the soldering iron down"there" image...ouch!ouch!ouch!!!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan, mercifully not a hypocondriac....yet!
wrote:
>the
> Now David has been knowen to tell realy tall tails..... It was in
> days they still used the soldering irons to stop the bleaders and noOh dear! I'm with a nurse in real life! Anything I should know Jon
> one ran anywhere fast yet alone ran. The wife was in the medical
> field for a lot of years and her question was why was someone useing
> epoxy there. But then we won't get into the stories the nurse types
> can tell LOL
before I get ahead of myself and propose on bended knee? :-)
Soldering irons? Down"there"?! I'm getting light headed, you know,
just before one passes out....the imagery is too much for me :-O
Better get back to day dreaming about how nice and comfy WINDERMERE is
going to be once she is launched and/or this weeks up coming work in
the Captains quarters,like lining the closest with aromatic cedar and
taking off the dimensions for the doors......God! Just about anything
to erase the soldering iron down"there" image...ouch!ouch!ouch!!!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan, mercifully not a hypocondriac....yet!
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "David" <arbordg@...> wrote:
much information......although it does give new meaning to ironman
competitions with balls of steel or in this case balls of epoxy :-D
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan, totally on the wrong coast to be an active member
(oooops!that was close!a wee bit North of things out of steel or
epoxy!)) of the much esteemed and photographed COOTS....much to my
regret............
>Thanks for the "details" David,right on the edge of what may be too
> Peter - Take it as an understatement. Jon is truly a man among Coots.
> Rumor is, he Jogged Home from his vasectomy.
>
> Cheers,
> David Graybeal
> Portlnd, OR
>
> <no, I haven't seen the evidence for myself>
>
much information......although it does give new meaning to ironman
competitions with balls of steel or in this case balls of epoxy :-D
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan, totally on the wrong coast to be an active member
(oooops!that was close!a wee bit North of things out of steel or
epoxy!)) of the much esteemed and photographed COOTS....much to my
regret............
Now David has been knowen to tell realy tall tails..... It was in the
days they still used the soldering irons to stop the bleaders and no
one ran anywhere fast yet alone ran. The wife was in the medical
field for a lot of years and her question was why was someone useing
epoxy there. But then we won't get into the stories the nurse types
can tell LOL
Jon
days they still used the soldering irons to stop the bleaders and no
one ran anywhere fast yet alone ran. The wife was in the medical
field for a lot of years and her question was why was someone useing
epoxy there. But then we won't get into the stories the nurse types
can tell LOL
Jon
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "David" <arbordg@...> wrote:
>
> Peter - Take it as an understatement. Jon is truly a man among
Coots.
> Rumor is, he Jogged Home from his vasectomy.
>
> Cheers,
> David Graybeal
> Portlnd, OR
>
> <no, I haven't seen the evidence for myself>
>
> **************
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Lenihan" <peterlenihan@>
wrote:
> >
> > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jon & Wanda(Tink)" <windyjon@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Why would you use it on your testicals and with proper safty
> > > exsposure is limeted. But then again for us that are fixed we
realy
> > > arn't useing them anyway.
> > >
> > > Jon
> >
> > Now THAT takes alot of balls to to state and/or admit .....:-D
> >
> > Sincerely,
> >
> > Peter Lenihan...........
>
Peter - Take it as an understatement. Jon is truly a man among Coots.
Rumor is, he Jogged Home from his vasectomy.
Cheers,
David Graybeal
Portlnd, OR
<no, I haven't seen the evidence for myself>
**************
Rumor is, he Jogged Home from his vasectomy.
Cheers,
David Graybeal
Portlnd, OR
<no, I haven't seen the evidence for myself>
**************
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Lenihan" <peterlenihan@...> wrote:
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jon & Wanda(Tink)" <windyjon@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Why would you use it on your testicals and with proper safty
> > exsposure is limeted. But then again for us that are fixed we realy
> > arn't useing them anyway.
> >
> > Jon
>
> Now THAT takes alot of balls to to state and/or admit .....:-D
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Peter Lenihan...........
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jon & Wanda(Tink)" <windyjon@...>
wrote:
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan...........
wrote:
>Now THAT takes alot of balls to to state and/or admit .....:-D
> Why would you use it on your testicals and with proper safty
> exsposure is limeted. But then again for us that are fixed we realy
> arn't useing them anyway.
>
> Jon
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan...........
An old used refrigator works even better and you can get then for taking them away most times. I saw one that was all set up for storing epoxy. The person has his "sticky stuff" epoxy pump right in there as well. As I remember the pump was on a slide out shelf. They also had a small fan in it the blow the air around in it so the temp was top to bottom.
Krissie
Bill Kreamer <kreamers@...> wrote: A 50 watt bulb gives enough heat, if the box is insulated with 1" u.f. foam
(R-Max etc.). Provide cut-outs in the shelves at both ends, and put the
light bulb near the bottom of the box at one end. The temp will be in the
90s(F) or so. - Bill
_____
---------------------------------
Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Krissie
Bill Kreamer <kreamers@...> wrote: A 50 watt bulb gives enough heat, if the box is insulated with 1" u.f. foam
(R-Max etc.). Provide cut-outs in the shelves at both ends, and put the
light bulb near the bottom of the box at one end. The temp will be in the
90s(F) or so. - Bill
_____
---------------------------------
Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I would only use a carpenters glue that is truly waterproof. In white
glues that is Tightbond 3. In the 2 part real exspensive brown glues
they get brittle as they age. I have a Lightning built in 62 that is
proof of that as well as a few old dinning room chairs. The wood
products institute did tests on them all. Epoxy is the best and
depending on brand cheaper even with waste. On safety it isn't that
big of a bother but those that don't follow after lurning will lurn
or deserve to. Once cured epoxy is nonalergenic and with most brands
not a broblem to breathe the fumes unless overheated like when doing
fillets to slowly for size of bach. Epoxy that has fillers to
controle speed can be bad to breath because of the fillers and what
they do to the epoxy not the epoxy it self. 1-1 epoxy generaly is
thicker then 2-1 and more flexable making it better for gluing joints
and sheeting. Addatives for gluing should be only Fumed Silica a
product of many names and milled glass. Micro ballons make it weaker
and wood dust can leave voids. Precoat both parts with straite epoxy
and recoat when gluing to prevent glue starvation. So gloves and
coveralls when gluing or spreading epoxy resperator when sanding and
sweeping up the shop and sanding dust. The boat is only as good as
the craftmanship what ever glue you use epoxy just lets you have a
OPPS now and then so it is more forgiving. Epoxy is only bad if you
are unsafe or educated just like CO2. Food can give you a better life
or kill you even water if you drink to much can kill you. Just be
safe and know when you need what safty equipment.
Jon
glues that is Tightbond 3. In the 2 part real exspensive brown glues
they get brittle as they age. I have a Lightning built in 62 that is
proof of that as well as a few old dinning room chairs. The wood
products institute did tests on them all. Epoxy is the best and
depending on brand cheaper even with waste. On safety it isn't that
big of a bother but those that don't follow after lurning will lurn
or deserve to. Once cured epoxy is nonalergenic and with most brands
not a broblem to breathe the fumes unless overheated like when doing
fillets to slowly for size of bach. Epoxy that has fillers to
controle speed can be bad to breath because of the fillers and what
they do to the epoxy not the epoxy it self. 1-1 epoxy generaly is
thicker then 2-1 and more flexable making it better for gluing joints
and sheeting. Addatives for gluing should be only Fumed Silica a
product of many names and milled glass. Micro ballons make it weaker
and wood dust can leave voids. Precoat both parts with straite epoxy
and recoat when gluing to prevent glue starvation. So gloves and
coveralls when gluing or spreading epoxy resperator when sanding and
sweeping up the shop and sanding dust. The boat is only as good as
the craftmanship what ever glue you use epoxy just lets you have a
OPPS now and then so it is more forgiving. Epoxy is only bad if you
are unsafe or educated just like CO2. Food can give you a better life
or kill you even water if you drink to much can kill you. Just be
safe and know when you need what safty equipment.
Jon
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Doug Pollard <Dougpol1@...> wrote:
>
> Seems to me that if the epoxy is stronger than the wood the
strength of
> the joint is that of the wood. Most of the carpenter glues are also
> stronger than the wood but weaker than epoxy. They may have the
> disadvantage that you can't boil them in water but you can't boil
epoxy
> either as it will soften. Will the carpenter glues weaken when wet
over
> a period of time, maybe or probably, even likely. Can you put
fiberglass
> on the outside of you boat with carpenters glue? You probably
could but
> it wouldn't likely be worth a plug nickel.
> If carpenters glue weakens under water does it weaken as much
as
> the wood does? Wood fibers separates pretty easy when wet. Maybe
it is
> , or maybe it is not that the wet carpenters glue is weaker than
the wet
> wood.
> It's a sure thing that epoxy fills sloppy made joints. Is
using
> epoxy with gloves respirators and coveralls easier than making good
> tight joints. I doubt that. Is the satisfaction of a well fitted
joint
> greater on poked full of epoxy? I think so. Does worrying about be
> coming sensitive epoxy detract from the pleasure of building a
boat. I
> would say it detracts even more for the person who doesn't worry
about
> it because he is likely to be the one with the problem. We after
all
> could coat our boats with asbestos to keep out the cold. Now
theres a
> good idea.
> The questions here are what matters most, not my stabs at
answers?
> My answers are only opinions but the questions are real.
>
> Doug
>
>
> Clyde Wisner wrote:
> >
> > Epoxies generally have great strength but don't do well with
impact, as
> > in hitting a piling a little too hard in the wind. The newer, high
> > priced generation may have some vertues as in impact resistence,
stick
> > to anything(West Sys), I haven't tried any of them but plan to.
Clyde
> >
> > Bruce Hallman wrote:
> >
> > > Bear in mind that in most situations, the element in the joint
to fail
> > > is the wood. Wood is much weaker than epoxy, even the generic
epoxy,
> > > by about an order of magnitude. You can prove this to yourself
by
> > > making some test joints, and then 'breaking' them. I have done
this
> > > type of test, and what typically breaks are the fibers of wood,
just
> > > adjacent to the epoxy/glass. Really important joints probably
should
> > > have bolts, screws and nails anyway.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
>
A 50 watt bulb gives enough heat, if the box is insulated with 1" u.f. foam
(R-Max etc.). Provide cut-outs in the shelves at both ends, and put the
light bulb near the bottom of the box at one end. The temp will be in the
90s(F) or so. - Bill
_____
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Harry James
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 2:57 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Sticky question on epoxies
Fast hardener, I was working it after over night. System Three used to
say that you could use their fast hardener down to freezing, I don't
know if they still do. You can put your epoxy in a box with a 100 Watt
light bulb to keep it warm and it gives it a running start.
HJ
Chris Feller wrote:
(R-Max etc.). Provide cut-outs in the shelves at both ends, and put the
light bulb near the bottom of the box at one end. The temp will be in the
90s(F) or so. - Bill
_____
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Harry James
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 2:57 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Sticky question on epoxies
Fast hardener, I was working it after over night. System Three used to
say that you could use their fast hardener down to freezing, I don't
know if they still do. You can put your epoxy in a box with a 100 Watt
light bulb to keep it warm and it gives it a running start.
HJ
Chris Feller wrote:
> --- In bolger@yahoogroups. <mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com> com, HarryJames <welshman@...> wrote:
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> I have gotten good results with RAKA and System Three down to less
>>
> than 40>
>
> I did not know that they would work in temps that low. Which hardener
> did you use with RAKA?
>
> Chris
>
>
>
>
>> HJ
>>
>>
>
As long as we are swapping epoxy stories, over the years I found that
about one time in a hundred I would accidentally mix up the 1:2 ratio
epoxy to be 2:1, resulting in a sticky mess.
Every since I have switched to 1:1 epoxy, and find it to be hard to goof up.
about one time in a hundred I would accidentally mix up the 1:2 ratio
epoxy to be 2:1, resulting in a sticky mess.
Every since I have switched to 1:1 epoxy, and find it to be hard to goof up.
Fast hardener, I was working it after over night. System Three used to
say that you could use their fast hardener down to freezing, I don't
know if they still do. You can put your epoxy in a box with a 100 Watt
light bulb to keep it warm and it gives it a running start.
HJ
Chris Feller wrote:
say that you could use their fast hardener down to freezing, I don't
know if they still do. You can put your epoxy in a box with a 100 Watt
light bulb to keep it warm and it gives it a running start.
HJ
Chris Feller wrote:
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
>
>> I have gotten good results with RAKA and System Three down to less
>>
> than 40>
>
> I did not know that they would work in temps that low. Which hardener
> did you use with RAKA?
>
> Chris
>
>
>
>
>> HJ
>>
>>
>
Doug,
Depending on what you're building and what you otherwise need the glue
to do, I wouldn't worry about carpenter glue under fiberglass and epoxy.
Strip canoes are commonly built using carpenter glue to edge glue the
strips, in fact it's preferred. The feeling is that if something happens
that compromises the hull so that water reaches the glue line, you've
got worse problems than the glue not being waterproof to worry about.
Just a thought. How that plays out with the particular stresses on a
larger boat and the relative protection of epoxy-fiberglass sheathing
could be a different story.
Charles Campbell
Depending on what you're building and what you otherwise need the glue
to do, I wouldn't worry about carpenter glue under fiberglass and epoxy.
Strip canoes are commonly built using carpenter glue to edge glue the
strips, in fact it's preferred. The feeling is that if something happens
that compromises the hull so that water reaches the glue line, you've
got worse problems than the glue not being waterproof to worry about.
Just a thought. How that plays out with the particular stresses on a
larger boat and the relative protection of epoxy-fiberglass sheathing
could be a different story.
Charles Campbell
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Doug Pollard <Dougpol1@...> wrote:
>
> Seems to me that if the epoxy is stronger than the wood the strength
of
> the joint is that of the wood. Most of the carpenter glues are also
> stronger than the wood but weaker than epoxy. They may have the
> disadvantage that you can't boil them in water but you can't boil
epoxy
> either as it will soften. Will the carpenter glues weaken when wet
over
> a period of time, maybe or probably, even likely. Can you put
fiberglass
> on the outside of you boat with carpenters glue? You probably could
but
> it wouldn't likely be worth a plug nickel.
> If carpenters glue weakens under water does it weaken as much as
> the wood does? Wood fibers separates pretty easy when wet. Maybe it is
> , or maybe it is not that the wet carpenters glue is weaker than the
wet
> wood.
> It's a sure thing that epoxy fills sloppy made joints. Is using
> epoxy with gloves respirators and coveralls easier than making good
> tight joints. I doubt that. Is the satisfaction of a well fitted joint
> greater on poked full of epoxy? I think so. Does worrying about be
> coming sensitive epoxy detract from the pleasure of building a boat. I
> would say it detracts even more for the person who doesn't worry about
> it because he is likely to be the one with the problem. We after all
> could coat our boats with asbestos to keep out the cold. Now theres a
> good idea.
> The questions here are what matters most, not my stabs at answers?
> My answers are only opinions but the questions are real.
>
> Doug
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
I did not know that they would work in temps that low. Which hardener
did you use with RAKA?
Chris
>than 40>
> I have gotten good results with RAKA and System Three down to less
I did not know that they would work in temps that low. Which hardener
did you use with RAKA?
Chris
>something
> HJ
>
> Chris Feller wrote:
> > The only difference I have found between epoxies is that some are
> > easier to work with than others. They all are very strong and
> > strength is not an issue between them. I have never used Silvertip
> > but my guess is that it has a low viscosity and non blushing hardener.
> > Also the better hardeners have a wider range of working temperature.
> > By this I mean that they will cure at lower temps and don't kick off
> > and cure as fast at higher temps.
> >
> > The lowest cost epoxy I have used is USComposites 2 to 1 slow setting
> > epoxy and hardener at about 30-35 dollars a gallon. This hardener is
> > non blush but needs to cure at temps above 70. The best I have used
> > is MAS or RAKA 350 hardener. They both are non blushing and can be
> > used down to about 55 or 60 degrees. I used to use West System but
> > they just have not kept up and are not as good of a choice anymore.
> >
> > Chris Feller
> > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "mike" <mikearedmond@> wrote:
> >
> >> Good evening everyone,Got myself thinking about epoxies and
> >> is bugging me.Besides the name and the price what is the realout
> >> difference between Silvertip epoxy and Marinepoxy....someone goes
> >> and fillets his boat with Marinepoxy is he more at risk of having aMi8ke R
> >> joint failure compared to the other brand...curious about this
> >>dead horses
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging
> > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred'posts
> > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
> > - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
Seems to me that if the epoxy is stronger than the wood the strength of
the joint is that of the wood. Most of the carpenter glues are also
stronger than the wood but weaker than epoxy. They may have the
disadvantage that you can't boil them in water but you can't boil epoxy
either as it will soften. Will the carpenter glues weaken when wet over
a period of time, maybe or probably, even likely. Can you put fiberglass
on the outside of you boat with carpenters glue? You probably could but
it wouldn't likely be worth a plug nickel.
If carpenters glue weakens under water does it weaken as much as
the wood does? Wood fibers separates pretty easy when wet. Maybe it is
, or maybe it is not that the wet carpenters glue is weaker than the wet
wood.
It's a sure thing that epoxy fills sloppy made joints. Is using
epoxy with gloves respirators and coveralls easier than making good
tight joints. I doubt that. Is the satisfaction of a well fitted joint
greater on poked full of epoxy? I think so. Does worrying about be
coming sensitive epoxy detract from the pleasure of building a boat. I
would say it detracts even more for the person who doesn't worry about
it because he is likely to be the one with the problem. We after all
could coat our boats with asbestos to keep out the cold. Now theres a
good idea.
The questions here are what matters most, not my stabs at answers?
My answers are only opinions but the questions are real.
Doug
Clyde Wisner wrote:
the joint is that of the wood. Most of the carpenter glues are also
stronger than the wood but weaker than epoxy. They may have the
disadvantage that you can't boil them in water but you can't boil epoxy
either as it will soften. Will the carpenter glues weaken when wet over
a period of time, maybe or probably, even likely. Can you put fiberglass
on the outside of you boat with carpenters glue? You probably could but
it wouldn't likely be worth a plug nickel.
If carpenters glue weakens under water does it weaken as much as
the wood does? Wood fibers separates pretty easy when wet. Maybe it is
, or maybe it is not that the wet carpenters glue is weaker than the wet
wood.
It's a sure thing that epoxy fills sloppy made joints. Is using
epoxy with gloves respirators and coveralls easier than making good
tight joints. I doubt that. Is the satisfaction of a well fitted joint
greater on poked full of epoxy? I think so. Does worrying about be
coming sensitive epoxy detract from the pleasure of building a boat. I
would say it detracts even more for the person who doesn't worry about
it because he is likely to be the one with the problem. We after all
could coat our boats with asbestos to keep out the cold. Now theres a
good idea.
The questions here are what matters most, not my stabs at answers?
My answers are only opinions but the questions are real.
Doug
Clyde Wisner wrote:
>
> Epoxies generally have great strength but don't do well with impact, as
> in hitting a piling a little too hard in the wind. The newer, high
> priced generation may have some vertues as in impact resistence, stick
> to anything(West Sys), I haven't tried any of them but plan to. Clyde
>
> Bruce Hallman wrote:
>
> > Bear in mind that in most situations, the element in the joint to fail
> > is the wood. Wood is much weaker than epoxy, even the generic epoxy,
> > by about an order of magnitude. You can prove this to yourself by
> > making some test joints, and then 'breaking' them. I have done this
> > type of test, and what typically breaks are the fibers of wood, just
> > adjacent to the epoxy/glass. Really important joints probably should
> > have bolts, screws and nails anyway.
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
Epoxies generally have great strength but don't do well with impact, as
in hitting a piling a little too hard in the wind. The newer, high
priced generation may have some vertues as in impact resistence, stick
to anything(West Sys), I haven't tried any of them but plan to. Clyde
Bruce Hallman wrote:
in hitting a piling a little too hard in the wind. The newer, high
priced generation may have some vertues as in impact resistence, stick
to anything(West Sys), I haven't tried any of them but plan to. Clyde
Bruce Hallman wrote:
> Bear in mind that in most situations, the element in the joint to fail[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> is the wood. Wood is much weaker than epoxy, even the generic epoxy,
> by about an order of magnitude. You can prove this to yourself by
> making some test joints, and then 'breaking' them. I have done this
> type of test, and what typically breaks are the fibers of wood, just
> adjacent to the epoxy/glass. Really important joints probably should
> have bolts, screws and nails anyway.
>
>
I have gotten good results with RAKA and System Three down to less than 40>
HJ
Chris Feller wrote:
HJ
Chris Feller wrote:
> The only difference I have found between epoxies is that some are
> easier to work with than others. They all are very strong and
> strength is not an issue between them. I have never used Silvertip
> but my guess is that it has a low viscosity and non blushing hardener.
> Also the better hardeners have a wider range of working temperature.
> By this I mean that they will cure at lower temps and don't kick off
> and cure as fast at higher temps.
>
> The lowest cost epoxy I have used is USComposites 2 to 1 slow setting
> epoxy and hardener at about 30-35 dollars a gallon. This hardener is
> non blush but needs to cure at temps above 70. The best I have used
> is MAS or RAKA 350 hardener. They both are non blushing and can be
> used down to about 55 or 60 degrees. I used to use West System but
> they just have not kept up and are not as good of a choice anymore.
>
> Chris Feller
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "mike" <mikearedmond@...> wrote:
>
>> Good evening everyone,Got myself thinking about epoxies and something
>> is bugging me.Besides the name and the price what is the real
>> difference between Silvertip epoxy and Marinepoxy....someone goes out
>> and fillets his boat with Marinepoxy is he more at risk of having a
>> joint failure compared to the other brand...curious about this Mi8ke R
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
Why would you use it on your testicals and with proper safty
exsposure is limeted. But then again for us that are fixed we realy
arn't useing them anyway.
Jon
exsposure is limeted. But then again for us that are fixed we realy
arn't useing them anyway.
Jon
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Tim Anderson" <lebateautim@...> wrote:
>
> All are toxic when liquid, biphenyl's cause testicular cancers. I'm
gluing
> my new boat together with Titebond 3, glass and System 3 over the
outside.
> Tim P Anderson
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of
> mike
> Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2007 3:00 PM
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [bolger] Sticky question on epoxies
>
>
>
> Good evening everyone,Got myself thinking about epoxies and
something
> is bugging me.Besides the name and the price what is the real
> difference between Silvertip epoxy and Marinepoxy....someone goes
out
> and fillets his boat with Marinepoxy is he more at risk of having a
> joint failure compared to the other brand...curious about this
Mi8ke R
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
The only difference I have found between epoxies is that some are
easier to work with than others. They all are very strong and
strength is not an issue between them. I have never used Silvertip
but my guess is that it has a low viscosity and non blushing hardener.
Also the better hardeners have a wider range of working temperature.
By this I mean that they will cure at lower temps and don't kick off
and cure as fast at higher temps.
The lowest cost epoxy I have used is USComposites 2 to 1 slow setting
epoxy and hardener at about 30-35 dollars a gallon. This hardener is
non blush but needs to cure at temps above 70. The best I have used
is MAS or RAKA 350 hardener. They both are non blushing and can be
used down to about 55 or 60 degrees. I used to use West System but
they just have not kept up and are not as good of a choice anymore.
Chris Feller
easier to work with than others. They all are very strong and
strength is not an issue between them. I have never used Silvertip
but my guess is that it has a low viscosity and non blushing hardener.
Also the better hardeners have a wider range of working temperature.
By this I mean that they will cure at lower temps and don't kick off
and cure as fast at higher temps.
The lowest cost epoxy I have used is USComposites 2 to 1 slow setting
epoxy and hardener at about 30-35 dollars a gallon. This hardener is
non blush but needs to cure at temps above 70. The best I have used
is MAS or RAKA 350 hardener. They both are non blushing and can be
used down to about 55 or 60 degrees. I used to use West System but
they just have not kept up and are not as good of a choice anymore.
Chris Feller
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "mike" <mikearedmond@...> wrote:
>
> Good evening everyone,Got myself thinking about epoxies and something
> is bugging me.Besides the name and the price what is the real
> difference between Silvertip epoxy and Marinepoxy....someone goes out
> and fillets his boat with Marinepoxy is he more at risk of having a
> joint failure compared to the other brand...curious about this Mi8ke R
>
Bear in mind that in most situations, the element in the joint to fail
is the wood. Wood is much weaker than epoxy, even the generic epoxy,
by about an order of magnitude. You can prove this to yourself by
making some test joints, and then 'breaking' them. I have done this
type of test, and what typically breaks are the fibers of wood, just
adjacent to the epoxy/glass. Really important joints probably should
have bolts, screws and nails anyway.
is the wood. Wood is much weaker than epoxy, even the generic epoxy,
by about an order of magnitude. You can prove this to yourself by
making some test joints, and then 'breaking' them. I have done this
type of test, and what typically breaks are the fibers of wood, just
adjacent to the epoxy/glass. Really important joints probably should
have bolts, screws and nails anyway.
All are toxic when liquid, biphenyl's cause testicular cancers. I'm gluing
my new boat together with Titebond 3, glass and System 3 over the outside.
Tim P Anderson
_____
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
mike
Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2007 3:00 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Sticky question on epoxies
Good evening everyone,Got myself thinking about epoxies and something
is bugging me.Besides the name and the price what is the real
difference between Silvertip epoxy and Marinepoxy....someone goes out
and fillets his boat with Marinepoxy is he more at risk of having a
joint failure compared to the other brand...curious about this Mi8ke R
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
my new boat together with Titebond 3, glass and System 3 over the outside.
Tim P Anderson
_____
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
mike
Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2007 3:00 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Sticky question on epoxies
Good evening everyone,Got myself thinking about epoxies and something
is bugging me.Besides the name and the price what is the real
difference between Silvertip epoxy and Marinepoxy....someone goes out
and fillets his boat with Marinepoxy is he more at risk of having a
joint failure compared to the other brand...curious about this Mi8ke R
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
In my exsperiance both are way to exspensive to use compaired to other
quality epoxies that don't pay for all the advertiseing and fancy
packageing. My sorce for epoxy after trying several is
http://www.jgreer.com/It has never set on a shelf after being mass
packaged and always fresh. Many of our local Coots have tried it and
realy like it. The 1-1 is best for glueing and fillets. The 2-1 noblush
for layup and coating but with fillers will work as well as 1-1 for
glueing and fillets.
Jon
quality epoxies that don't pay for all the advertiseing and fancy
packageing. My sorce for epoxy after trying several is
http://www.jgreer.com/It has never set on a shelf after being mass
packaged and always fresh. Many of our local Coots have tried it and
realy like it. The 1-1 is best for glueing and fillets. The 2-1 noblush
for layup and coating but with fillers will work as well as 1-1 for
glueing and fillets.
Jon
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "mike" <mikearedmond@...> wrote:
>
> Good evening everyone,Got myself thinking about epoxies and something
> is bugging me.Besides the name and the price what is the real
> difference between Silvertip epoxy and Marinepoxy....someone goes out
> and fillets his boat with Marinepoxy is he more at risk of having a
> joint failure compared to the other brand...curious about this Mi8ke
R
>
Good evening everyone,Got myself thinking about epoxies and something
is bugging me.Besides the name and the price what is the real
difference between Silvertip epoxy and Marinepoxy....someone goes out
and fillets his boat with Marinepoxy is he more at risk of having a
joint failure compared to the other brand...curious about this Mi8ke R
is bugging me.Besides the name and the price what is the real
difference between Silvertip epoxy and Marinepoxy....someone goes out
and fillets his boat with Marinepoxy is he more at risk of having a
joint failure compared to the other brand...curious about this Mi8ke R