Re:'Sureply' (R)ACX update
Being ignorant whether water proof glue actually implies extra strength or not, soaked my
Sureply and a piece of genuine marine fir a solid week in just plain water.
Both are finally softening somewhat -but there's no appreciable difference between the two.
This less strenuous test makes me feel better about using the stuff.
Now to dry them...
Mark
Sureply and a piece of genuine marine fir a solid week in just plain water.
Both are finally softening somewhat -but there's no appreciable difference between the two.
This less strenuous test makes me feel better about using the stuff.
Now to dry them...
Mark
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "dnjost" <davidjost@...> wrote:
>
> I did not take a photo of it, but the ACX I boiled last week has had a
> week in the arid atmosphere of the artic freeze we are having in New
> England.
Spend the money and get good marine plywood. First boat, sure, go cheap. After you have a bit of experience, and want to show your workmanship, use the good stuff. I used to build furniture out of pine. I've graduated to cherry and walnut. Same thing. OK, I still use pine for some stuff.
Rick
----- Original Message ----
From: dnjost <davidjost@...>
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, March 1, 2008 9:41:57 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re:'Sureply' (R)ACX update
I did not take a photo of it, but the ACX I boiled last week has had a
week in the arid atmosphere of the artic freeze we are having in New
England. The indoor low humidity dried that sucker out in record time
leaving a very nicely checked piece of plywood. The glue is holding,
but I can now see how easily the water will penetrate this ply.
that explains why the skiff I built of ACX deteriorated the way it
did. The rot could just get into the cracks and go crazy.
thanks for your patience, I am being a tad oc as I want my next build
to be terrific.
David Jost
____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for last minute shopping deals?
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Rick
----- Original Message ----
From: dnjost <davidjost@...>
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, March 1, 2008 9:41:57 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re:'Sureply' (R)ACX update
I did not take a photo of it, but the ACX I boiled last week has had a
week in the arid atmosphere of the artic freeze we are having in New
England. The indoor low humidity dried that sucker out in record time
leaving a very nicely checked piece of plywood. The glue is holding,
but I can now see how easily the water will penetrate this ply.
that explains why the skiff I built of ACX deteriorated the way it
did. The rot could just get into the cracks and go crazy.
thanks for your patience, I am being a tad oc as I want my next build
to be terrific.
David Jost
____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for last minute shopping deals?
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I did not take a photo of it, but the ACX I boiled last week has had a
week in the arid atmosphere of the artic freeze we are having in New
England. The indoor low humidity dried that sucker out in record time
leaving a very nicely checked piece of plywood. The glue is holding,
but I can now see how easily the water will penetrate this ply.
that explains why the skiff I built of ACX deteriorated the way it
did. The rot could just get into the cracks and go crazy.
thanks for your patience, I am being a tad oc as I want my next build
to be terrific.
David Jost
week in the arid atmosphere of the artic freeze we are having in New
England. The indoor low humidity dried that sucker out in record time
leaving a very nicely checked piece of plywood. The glue is holding,
but I can now see how easily the water will penetrate this ply.
that explains why the skiff I built of ACX deteriorated the way it
did. The rot could just get into the cracks and go crazy.
thanks for your patience, I am being a tad oc as I want my next build
to be terrific.
David Jost
Supposing, David, we may have actually purchased different products,
that yours was mislabled somehow, today I had a chance to boil my own
Sureply (R).
Tried a couple of 2 x 4" pieces.
After an hour and a bend with vicegrips, #1 came apart with fingers.
Cooled awhile, #2 wasn't much better.
Personally, this is my third cheap luan boat. I haven't found a batch
of the stuff yet that actually would survive this test. One is sealed
with deck stuff and paint; another just with epoxy. Both are useful
in their limited way. They are both stored indoors.
You hit the bullseye with the occume. The ACX is pretty grim stuff.
These otherwise well made sheets are nicely uniform. But If a
lightweight, smooth, voidless, truly waterproof, $15 sheet seems too
good to be true, perhaps it is. Maybe Sureply is really just good
pattern stuff. :)
Cheerz, Mark
that yours was mislabled somehow, today I had a chance to boil my own
Sureply (R).
Tried a couple of 2 x 4" pieces.
After an hour and a bend with vicegrips, #1 came apart with fingers.
Cooled awhile, #2 wasn't much better.
Personally, this is my third cheap luan boat. I haven't found a batch
of the stuff yet that actually would survive this test. One is sealed
with deck stuff and paint; another just with epoxy. Both are useful
in their limited way. They are both stored indoors.
You hit the bullseye with the occume. The ACX is pretty grim stuff.
These otherwise well made sheets are nicely uniform. But If a
lightweight, smooth, voidless, truly waterproof, $15 sheet seems too
good to be true, perhaps it is. Maybe Sureply is really just good
pattern stuff. :)
Cheerz, Mark
On Feb 26, 2008, at 6:12 AM, dnjost wrote:
>
> The 1/2 " ACX I boiled for over an hour and could not flex it, twist
> it, or cause failure of any kinds. I am sure that after repeated
> boiling and cool cycles I could eventually get failure, but for a boat
> that I plan on running 10-15 years and kept under cover this should be
> fine.
>
> Happy building,
> David Jost
> "calling Maine Lumber tomorrow for a delivery of Okoume".
>
Garth -
Interestingly enough, not all wood bends after heating. I tried steam
bending white oak, red oak, ash, fir, and pine. Only the oaks and ash
took the process, with the others cracking under pressure. A simple
drain pipe out of PVC, rags, and a double boiler with PVC hosing
clamped on has been my method for small canoe parts. 1hour per inch of
cross section. pretty easy and fun!
The 1/2 " ACX I boiled for over an hour and could not flex it, twist
it, or cause failure of any kinds. I am sure that after repeated
boiling and cool cycles I could eventually get failure, but for a boat
that I plan on running 10-15 years and kept under cover this should be
fine.
Happy building,
David Jost
Interestingly enough, not all wood bends after heating. I tried steam
bending white oak, red oak, ash, fir, and pine. Only the oaks and ash
took the process, with the others cracking under pressure. A simple
drain pipe out of PVC, rags, and a double boiler with PVC hosing
clamped on has been my method for small canoe parts. 1hour per inch of
cross section. pretty easy and fun!
The 1/2 " ACX I boiled for over an hour and could not flex it, twist
it, or cause failure of any kinds. I am sure that after repeated
boiling and cool cycles I could eventually get failure, but for a boat
that I plan on running 10-15 years and kept under cover this should be
fine.
Happy building,
David Jost
The ply did not bend as stated, the glue failed. When I attempted to
simply pull the plys apart, the failure was not immediate, but after
cooling for 10 minutes I applied a twist and simply opened it up like
an oreo cookie.
D. Jost
simply pull the plys apart, the failure was not immediate, but after
cooling for 10 minutes I applied a twist and simply opened it up like
an oreo cookie.
D. Jost
When I performed the boiling test on the Radiata Pine as I stated last week when I was asking about information on Radiata Pine on boats, and on some BC yellow pine, the Radiata ply was stiff the same as dry, while the BC was able to be slightly flexed if put into a wise and bent with a pair of large channel lock plyers, but not delaminating.
While on the pics from David Looks like the Play layers were delaminated.
Giuliano
GarthAB <garth@...> wrote:
Hi David--
It looks like your ply just bent after boiling, but didn't delaminate.
Is that right, or did the glue give out? Wouldn't any wood bend after
an hour of boiling, like steam-bent oak frames?
Garth
While on the pics from David Looks like the Play layers were delaminated.
Giuliano
GarthAB <garth@...> wrote:
Hi David--
It looks like your ply just bent after boiling, but didn't delaminate.
Is that right, or did the glue give out? Wouldn't any wood bend after
an hour of boiling, like steam-bent oak frames?
Garth
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "dnjost" <davidjost@...> wrote:
>
> Dear Group -
> please read my post on the boil test I did on Sureply. I would be
> better off with the $10 luan. While the faces and interior plys are
> made well, the glue is not suitable for long term exterior use.
>
> sorry,
> djost
>
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Hi David--
It looks like your ply just bent after boiling, but didn't delaminate.
Is that right, or did the glue give out? Wouldn't any wood bend after
an hour of boiling, like steam-bent oak frames?
Garth
It looks like your ply just bent after boiling, but didn't delaminate.
Is that right, or did the glue give out? Wouldn't any wood bend after
an hour of boiling, like steam-bent oak frames?
Garth
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "dnjost" <davidjost@...> wrote:
>
> Dear Group -
> please read my post on the boil test I did on Sureply. I would be
> better off with the $10 luan. While the faces and interior plys are
> made well, the glue is not suitable for long term exterior use.
>
> sorry,
> djost
>
Dear Group -
please read my post on the boil test I did on Sureply. I would be
better off with the $10 luan. While the faces and interior plys are
made well, the glue is not suitable for long term exterior use.
sorry,
djost
please read my post on the boil test I did on Sureply. I would be
better off with the $10 luan. While the faces and interior plys are
made well, the glue is not suitable for long term exterior use.
sorry,
djost
Mark -
Did you use the Sureply? While shopping for steel shelving at Lowes,
in order to organize the workshop, I tripped across Type 1 glued Luan
at $10 per sheet. Very tempting...but, two bays down found tons of
1/4" Sureply at $20 per sheet. A quick scan of the Patriot Timber
website shows that this stuff should be pretty good for Instant Boats.
Will pick up a few sheets and bang together a June Bug to replace both
the Dialbo and Pointy Skiff.
Trout and bass season are rapidly approaching in the frosty Northeast
US, (despite the 8" of snow last night) and I don't want to miss out on
too much boating action. I can also picture a raid on Boston via a
float down the Charles ("Love that Dirty Water")
David Jost
Did you use the Sureply? While shopping for steel shelving at Lowes,
in order to organize the workshop, I tripped across Type 1 glued Luan
at $10 per sheet. Very tempting...but, two bays down found tons of
1/4" Sureply at $20 per sheet. A quick scan of the Patriot Timber
website shows that this stuff should be pretty good for Instant Boats.
Will pick up a few sheets and bang together a June Bug to replace both
the Dialbo and Pointy Skiff.
Trout and bass season are rapidly approaching in the frosty Northeast
US, (despite the 8" of snow last night) and I don't want to miss out on
too much boating action. I can also picture a raid on Boston via a
float down the Charles ("Love that Dirty Water")
David Jost
At 20#/ sheet it's only ultralight compared to fir or BC pine, but I
picked up some of this luan underlay at one of the local HDs today.
Nicely made, living sheets. Pretty flat. Three even plies. Minimal
voids. Smooth both sides, one's got little x's as cutting guides all
over. The young man in the lumber department couldn't say whether it
was exterior glue, but googled to here.
http://www.patriottimber.com/sureply.htm
It was a surprise that different HDs carry different stock.
$15 /sheet. China, of course.
This is about the best cheap luan I've ever seen.
Mark
picked up some of this luan underlay at one of the local HDs today.
Nicely made, living sheets. Pretty flat. Three even plies. Minimal
voids. Smooth both sides, one's got little x's as cutting guides all
over. The young man in the lumber department couldn't say whether it
was exterior glue, but googled to here.
http://www.patriottimber.com/sureply.htm
It was a surprise that different HDs carry different stock.
$15 /sheet. China, of course.
This is about the best cheap luan I've ever seen.
Mark
Hah! I live on soybeans, breakfast lunch and dinner. On an input
ratio of only 1:7 compared to dead flesh, while not terribly smug
about it, I'm happy with the no GMO stuff. I'll plow through
soyonline, but sheesh, I gotta eat sompin'.
Was only thinking about _coating_ a boat with it...
Agree 100% about the diesel.
If more, let's go over to
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger_coffee_lounge/
Mark
ratio of only 1:7 compared to dead flesh, while not terribly smug
about it, I'm happy with the no GMO stuff. I'll plow through
soyonline, but sheesh, I gotta eat sompin'.
Was only thinking about _coating_ a boat with it...
Agree 100% about the diesel.
If more, let's go over to
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger_coffee_lounge/
Mark
On Feb 2, 2008, at 9:00 PM, eep_05 wrote:
> hate to dispel your illusion but soy is evil and most organic is
> soaked in diesel by the time you get it, better to get local produce
> when it is in season at least.
>
>http://www.soyonlineservice.co.nz/
>
> and you cant make a boat out of it either.
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> & green, green, green
>>
>> Organic soy? ;) or Amazon rainforest :( & GMO?? :+0!
>>
>> Graeme
>>
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging
> dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred'
> posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
> 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
hate to dispel your illusion but soy is evil and most organic is
soaked in diesel by the time you get it, better to get local produce
when it is in season at least.
http://www.soyonlineservice.co.nz/
and you cant make a boat out of it either.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
wrote:
soaked in diesel by the time you get it, better to get local produce
when it is in season at least.
http://www.soyonlineservice.co.nz/
and you cant make a boat out of it either.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
wrote:
>
>
> > & green, green, green
>
> Organic soy? ;) or Amazon rainforest :( & GMO?? :+0!
>
> Graeme
>
> & green, green, greenOrganic soy? ;) or Amazon rainforest :( & GMO?? :+0!
Graeme
Then again: If it were strong enough unglassed, maybe door skins
would work with some of this. Looking like both sealer and finish
coat, it's actually not that expensive.
http://tinyurl.com/2mc2u7
& green, green, green
would work with some of this. Looking like both sealer and finish
coat, it's actually not that expensive.
http://tinyurl.com/2mc2u7
& green, green, green
On Feb 1, 2008, at 2:07 PM, Bruce Hallman wrote:
> On Feb 1, 2008 1:09 PM, Mark Albanese <marka@...> wrote:
>>
>> Looking for plywood yesterday, no worthwhile 1/8th inch found.
>
>
> It is just a Tortoise, and I used the cheapo $9/sheet door skin at
> Home Depot.
> Sheathed both sides with 8oz cloth and epoxy, it seems plenty strong.
> The whole build probably totaled 10 man hours, spread over 10 days.
>
>
Hah! Went back to Lowes thinking 'hey, might as well grab 5 or 6
sheets." Couldn't find two. Curled, raw looking, truly enormous
boats, and, worst, the underside already suffering a lurid gray mold.
To be rid of that you I've spent a long time bleaching the xxx out of
it. If it's that way coming out of the store it won't last long in my
neighborhood. I just don't want to mess with it.
Thinking the occume... A gold plated Tortoise is an amusing idea. But
maybe not so practical. I've also been figuring up the true
dimensions of one of Gavin's _Little Bretons_. That's probably a
better place to sink $49 a sheet.
For a novice sailor, the Torti may be the better boat though.
Yes, the 3 x 7 foot door skins at HD looked good. That's confirmed
not exterior glue though, and I'm not inclined to glass it all. May
as well go for the better sheets.
With 8oz glass filled with epoxy, I'm somewhat surprised yours still
feels any lighter to you than stock 1/4" sheets.
BTW I love your rope handle setup. Proves again that genius rests in
the obvious.
Cheerz
\
sheets." Couldn't find two. Curled, raw looking, truly enormous
boats, and, worst, the underside already suffering a lurid gray mold.
To be rid of that you I've spent a long time bleaching the xxx out of
it. If it's that way coming out of the store it won't last long in my
neighborhood. I just don't want to mess with it.
Thinking the occume... A gold plated Tortoise is an amusing idea. But
maybe not so practical. I've also been figuring up the true
dimensions of one of Gavin's _Little Bretons_. That's probably a
better place to sink $49 a sheet.
For a novice sailor, the Torti may be the better boat though.
Yes, the 3 x 7 foot door skins at HD looked good. That's confirmed
not exterior glue though, and I'm not inclined to glass it all. May
as well go for the better sheets.
With 8oz glass filled with epoxy, I'm somewhat surprised yours still
feels any lighter to you than stock 1/4" sheets.
BTW I love your rope handle setup. Proves again that genius rests in
the obvious.
Cheerz
\
On Feb 1, 2008, at 2:07 PM, Bruce Hallman wrote:
> On Feb 1, 2008 1:09 PM, Mark Albanese <marka@...> wrote:
>>
>> Looking for plywood yesterday, no worthwhile 1/8th inch found.
>
>
> It is just a Tortoise, and I used the cheapo $9/sheet door skin at
> Home Depot.
> Sheathed both sides with 8oz cloth and epoxy, it seems plenty strong.
> The whole build probably totaled 10 man hours, spread over 10 days.
>
>
>
On Feb 1, 2008 1:09 PM, Mark Albanese <marka@...> wrote:
Sheathed both sides with 8oz cloth and epoxy, it seems plenty strong.
The whole build probably totaled 10 man hours, spread over 10 days.
>It is just a Tortoise, and I used the cheapo $9/sheet door skin at Home Depot.
> Looking for plywood yesterday, no worthwhile 1/8th inch found.
Sheathed both sides with 8oz cloth and epoxy, it seems plenty strong.
The whole build probably totaled 10 man hours, spread over 10 days.
Thanks for these. I'd found the flikr pix, but some good stuff is in
a part of Hallman.org one can't just browse to. The Freeship model
shows clearly just where you've put the deck curve.
Looking for plywood yesterday, no worthwhile 1/8th inch found. The
4mm occume weighing just 12# or so would serve but seems like
overkill at $49 a sheet. On the other hand if Tortoise is such a good
little boat, maybe that's the ticket.
Also found some $10 box store luan with three more or less even plys
and exterior glue that weighs just 20 pounds a sheet - will grab some
of that today, whatever.
Cheerz
a part of Hallman.org one can't just browse to. The Freeship model
shows clearly just where you've put the deck curve.
Looking for plywood yesterday, no worthwhile 1/8th inch found. The
4mm occume weighing just 12# or so would serve but seems like
overkill at $49 a sheet. On the other hand if Tortoise is such a good
little boat, maybe that's the ticket.
Also found some $10 box store luan with three more or less even plys
and exterior glue that weighs just 20 pounds a sheet - will grab some
of that today, whatever.
Cheerz
On Feb 1, 2008, at 6:43 AM, Bruce Hallman wrote:
>http://www.flickr.com/photos/hallman/507951929/
>http://hallman.org/bolger/Tortoise/ImprovedTortoise.png
>
> I don't recall if I have pictures of it completed.
>
>
>
http://www.flickr.com/photos/hallman/507951929/
http://hallman.org/bolger/Tortoise/ImprovedTortoise.png
I don't recall if I have pictures of it completed.
http://hallman.org/bolger/Tortoise/ImprovedTortoise.png
I don't recall if I have pictures of it completed.
Can you tell me where the pictures of this may be seen?
Thanks
Martin
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Thanks
Martin
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]