Re: [bolger] Bolger 16 footer cold mold retro runabout
OK, no offense intended or taken on either part.
I would also like to agree that cold molded boats are quite nice. I had
a C.M. runabout quite similar to the model, but 11 feet long when I was
a teenager. On calm water with just me in the boat, it would make 25
kt. using 15hp and a 3-blade 9x30 prop.
Some very well regarded and complex designs are cold molded. I have in
mind the Huckins Fairform Flyer, which, I believe, has a "quadraconic"
hull and was the basis for the WWII PT boat. It would definitely be the
way to build the optimized Blackgauntlet II in ch. 45 of Bolger Boats
(ch. 12 of The Folding Schooner?).
V/R
Chris.
Kenneth Grome wrote:
I would also like to agree that cold molded boats are quite nice. I had
a C.M. runabout quite similar to the model, but 11 feet long when I was
a teenager. On calm water with just me in the boat, it would make 25
kt. using 15hp and a 3-blade 9x30 prop.
Some very well regarded and complex designs are cold molded. I have in
mind the Huckins Fairform Flyer, which, I believe, has a "quadraconic"
hull and was the basis for the WWII PT boat. It would definitely be the
way to build the optimized Blackgauntlet II in ch. 45 of Bolger Boats
(ch. 12 of The Folding Schooner?).
V/R
Chris.
Kenneth Grome wrote:
>> I am not trying to be negative, but the discussion was, at least in
>> part, about cost. Many posters to this forum complain about the cost
>> of a strongback. I was merely trying to identify a significant
>> factor that was not yet discussed.
>>
>
>
> Hi Christopher,
>
> You're right, no one mentioned the male plug, and it can be a
> significant cost. Sorry, I was not trying to find fault with your
> comments, just trying to add my own personal perspective.
>
> :)
>
> Sincerely,
> Ken Grome
> Bagacay Boatworks
> www.bagacayboatworks.com
>
>
>
On Feb 9, 2008 1:01 AM, Brian Anderson <bawrytr@...> wrote:
place frames at two foot spacing, then spring on a series of battens
and you got it. Using an air powered stapler, that process can be
very quick. The cold molding I have done has used strips of cheapo
luaun plywood for the layup. Spread the glue using a flexible drywall
taping blade and tack the strips in place using the air stapler, again
real quick. Let the glue cure and clean up the staples and glue
globbers using an 4 1/2" angle grinder, again real quick.
After that, the fiberglassing, sanding and painting is the same as any
other equivalent sized boat.
Having built boats with expanded panels (taped seams), with
lapstrakes, with edge nailed strips and by cold molding I have reached
the opinion based on first hand testing that the three biggest factors
that determine 'time and work' are 1) the overall size of the boat and
2) the degree of precision required and 3) the degree of 'pretty' you
choose. The size you cannot change, but the required precision is
made easier with lapstrake and cold molding. And degree of 'pretty'
is simply a whim. (Finishing bright requires more precision which
takes a lot of time, both to initially achieve and later time to keep
it up).
>The boat shaped mold doesn't need to be much of a big deal. Cut and
> Cold molding is basically building up a boat's hull by laying up, at
> different angles, a series of layers of thin flexible strips of wood
> usually set in epoxy over a boat-shaped form of some kind. You
> basically build a boat-shaped piece of plywood a strip at a time.
place frames at two foot spacing, then spring on a series of battens
and you got it. Using an air powered stapler, that process can be
very quick. The cold molding I have done has used strips of cheapo
luaun plywood for the layup. Spread the glue using a flexible drywall
taping blade and tack the strips in place using the air stapler, again
real quick. Let the glue cure and clean up the staples and glue
globbers using an 4 1/2" angle grinder, again real quick.
After that, the fiberglassing, sanding and painting is the same as any
other equivalent sized boat.
Having built boats with expanded panels (taped seams), with
lapstrakes, with edge nailed strips and by cold molding I have reached
the opinion based on first hand testing that the three biggest factors
that determine 'time and work' are 1) the overall size of the boat and
2) the degree of precision required and 3) the degree of 'pretty' you
choose. The size you cannot change, but the required precision is
made easier with lapstrake and cold molding. And degree of 'pretty'
is simply a whim. (Finishing bright requires more precision which
takes a lot of time, both to initially achieve and later time to keep
it up).
Cold molding is basically building up a boat's hull by laying up, at
different angles, a series of layers of thin flexible strips of wood
usually set in epoxy over a boat-shaped form of some kind. You
basically build a boat-shaped piece of plywood a strip at a time.
different angles, a series of layers of thin flexible strips of wood
usually set in epoxy over a boat-shaped form of some kind. You
basically build a boat-shaped piece of plywood a strip at a time.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, dave seeton <daveseeton@...> wrote:
>
> A the risk of looking dumb,,,, what is cold molding?
> Dave
>
> Kenneth Grome <bagacayboatworks@...> wrote:
> Personally, I think that cold molding
> > has a lot of 'bang for the buck' over
> > tack and tape.
>
> I just read some posts in a boating forum that said studies prove that
> the lowest cost small boats to own in the long run are cold-molded.
> They require less maintenance and last longer than all other kinds of
> construction, including plastic boats.
>
> Another advantage is that most cold-molded boats require little or no
> internal structure, which makes them spacious and easy to clean
inside,
> as well as allowing for very flexible layout of furniture and fixtures.
>
> Sincerely,
> Ken Grome
> Bagacay Boatworks
> www.bagacayboatworks.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo!
Search.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> I am not trying to be negative, but the discussion was, at least inHi Christopher,
> part, about cost. Many posters to this forum complain about the cost
> of a strongback. I was merely trying to identify a significant
> factor that was not yet discussed.
You're right, no one mentioned the male plug, and it can be a
significant cost. Sorry, I was not trying to find fault with your
comments, just trying to add my own personal perspective.
:)
Sincerely,
Ken Grome
Bagacay Boatworks
www.bagacayboatworks.com
I am not trying to be negative, but the discussion was, at least in part, about cost. Many posters to this forum complain about the cost of a strongback. I was merely trying to identify a significant factor that was not yet discussed.
Christopher C. Wetherill
-----Original Message-----
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
Kenneth Grome
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2008 12:27 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] Bolger 16 footer cold mold retro runabout
individual.
the extra time or costs involved. Some people simply prefer quality,
even when they are building only one boat.
Sincerely,
Ken Grome
Bagacay Boatworks
www.bagacayboatworks.com
Christopher C. Wetherill
-----Original Message-----
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
Kenneth Grome
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2008 12:27 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] Bolger 16 footer cold mold retro runabout
> Doesn't cold molding require a male plug?Usually.
> Would this not skew the cost to favorYou cannot compare the goals of a factory with the goals of an
> multi-unit production?
individual.
> This is fine for a boatyard, but a one-offIt is practical if the builder prefers a cold molded hull, regardless of
> build would not be practical.
the extra time or costs involved. Some people simply prefer quality,
even when they are building only one boat.
Sincerely,
Ken Grome
Bagacay Boatworks
www.bagacayboatworks.com
> Doesn't cold molding require a male plug?Usually.
> Would this not skew the cost to favorYou cannot compare the goals of a factory with the goals of an
> multi-unit production?
individual.
> This is fine for a boatyard, but a one-offIt is practical if the builder prefers a cold molded hull, regardless of
> build would not be practical.
the extra time or costs involved. Some people simply prefer quality,
even when they are building only one boat.
Sincerely,
Ken Grome
Bagacay Boatworks
www.bagacayboatworks.com
Doesn't cold molding require a male plug? Would this not skew the cost to
favor multi-unit production? This is fine for a boatyard, but a one-off
build would not be practical.
Christopher C. Wetherill
-----Original Message-----
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
Bruce Hallman
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 4:05 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Bolger 16 footer cold mold retro runabout
http://flickr.com/photos/hallman/2251380754/
From a January 15, 1995 MAIB Bolger article, a 16 foot cold molded
retro runabout.
Personally, I think that cold molding has a lot of 'bang for the buck'
over tack and tape. Sure, the curves are a bit more work, but the
total surface area to fiberglass and the sanding surface is the same
or less compared with an equal size panel boat.
The total wood purchased, measured in board feet, is the same. The
total weight is the same or less. The time to build, (with equivalent
quality of smooth finish and not counting the boat builders learning
curve), is perhaps 25% or 50% more for a cold mold vs tack and tape.
The giant difference is the used market 'value' of a cold molded. A
sexy looking runabout like this actually would have a market value!
Compared with, something equivalent in a panel boat, like a Clam
Skiff.
favor multi-unit production? This is fine for a boatyard, but a one-off
build would not be practical.
Christopher C. Wetherill
-----Original Message-----
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
Bruce Hallman
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 4:05 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Bolger 16 footer cold mold retro runabout
http://flickr.com/photos/hallman/2251380754/
From a January 15, 1995 MAIB Bolger article, a 16 foot cold molded
retro runabout.
Personally, I think that cold molding has a lot of 'bang for the buck'
over tack and tape. Sure, the curves are a bit more work, but the
total surface area to fiberglass and the sanding surface is the same
or less compared with an equal size panel boat.
The total wood purchased, measured in board feet, is the same. The
total weight is the same or less. The time to build, (with equivalent
quality of smooth finish and not counting the boat builders learning
curve), is perhaps 25% or 50% more for a cold mold vs tack and tape.
The giant difference is the used market 'value' of a cold molded. A
sexy looking runabout like this actually would have a market value!
Compared with, something equivalent in a panel boat, like a Clam
Skiff.
A the risk of looking dumb,,,, what is cold molding?
Dave
Kenneth Grome <bagacayboatworks@...> wrote: > Personally, I think that cold molding
the lowest cost small boats to own in the long run are cold-molded.
They require less maintenance and last longer than all other kinds of
construction, including plastic boats.
Another advantage is that most cold-molded boats require little or no
internal structure, which makes them spacious and easy to clean inside,
as well as allowing for very flexible layout of furniture and fixtures.
Sincerely,
Ken Grome
Bagacay Boatworks
www.bagacayboatworks.com
---------------------------------
Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Dave
Kenneth Grome <bagacayboatworks@...> wrote: > Personally, I think that cold molding
> has a lot of 'bang for the buck' overI just read some posts in a boating forum that said studies prove that
> tack and tape.
the lowest cost small boats to own in the long run are cold-molded.
They require less maintenance and last longer than all other kinds of
construction, including plastic boats.
Another advantage is that most cold-molded boats require little or no
internal structure, which makes them spacious and easy to clean inside,
as well as allowing for very flexible layout of furniture and fixtures.
Sincerely,
Ken Grome
Bagacay Boatworks
www.bagacayboatworks.com
---------------------------------
Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--- "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...> wrote:
at the details! Kudos, Bruce! That windshield, and especially the
steering wheel are simply marvellous. In other models it's the ropes
etc. Wow. And thanks.
Stefan
>Nailing a quick model in Freeship together is one thing, but you rock
>http://flickr.com/photos/hallman/2251380754/
at the details! Kudos, Bruce! That windshield, and especially the
steering wheel are simply marvellous. In other models it's the ropes
etc. Wow. And thanks.
Stefan
One more advantage of cold-molding is that the hulls are often
substantially lighter in weight than plastic boats.
And they make for very comfortable and attractive interiors when the
natural wood is bright finished inside.
Sincerely,
Ken Grome
Bagacay Boatworks
www.bagacayboatworks.com
substantially lighter in weight than plastic boats.
And they make for very comfortable and attractive interiors when the
natural wood is bright finished inside.
Sincerely,
Ken Grome
Bagacay Boatworks
www.bagacayboatworks.com
> Personally, I think that cold moldingI just read some posts in a boating forum that said studies prove that
> has a lot of 'bang for the buck' over
> tack and tape.
the lowest cost small boats to own in the long run are cold-molded.
They require less maintenance and last longer than all other kinds of
construction, including plastic boats.
Another advantage is that most cold-molded boats require little or no
internal structure, which makes them spacious and easy to clean inside,
as well as allowing for very flexible layout of furniture and fixtures.
Sincerely,
Ken Grome
Bagacay Boatworks
www.bagacayboatworks.com
http://flickr.com/photos/hallman/2251380754/
From a January 15, 1995 MAIB Bolger article, a 16 foot cold molded
retro runabout.
Personally, I think that cold molding has a lot of 'bang for the buck'
over tack and tape. Sure, the curves are a bit more work, but the
total surface area to fiberglass and the sanding surface is the same
or less compared with an equal size panel boat.
The total wood purchased, measured in board feet, is the same. The
total weight is the same or less. The time to build, (with equivalent
quality of smooth finish and not counting the boat builders learning
curve), is perhaps 25% or 50% more for a cold mold vs tack and tape.
The giant difference is the used market 'value' of a cold molded. A
sexy looking runabout like this actually would have a market value!
Compared with, something equivalent in a panel boat, like a Clam
Skiff.
From a January 15, 1995 MAIB Bolger article, a 16 foot cold molded
retro runabout.
Personally, I think that cold molding has a lot of 'bang for the buck'
over tack and tape. Sure, the curves are a bit more work, but the
total surface area to fiberglass and the sanding surface is the same
or less compared with an equal size panel boat.
The total wood purchased, measured in board feet, is the same. The
total weight is the same or less. The time to build, (with equivalent
quality of smooth finish and not counting the boat builders learning
curve), is perhaps 25% or 50% more for a cold mold vs tack and tape.
The giant difference is the used market 'value' of a cold molded. A
sexy looking runabout like this actually would have a market value!
Compared with, something equivalent in a panel boat, like a Clam
Skiff.