Re: Diesel or Propane for Cooking?
Overall the outboard is probably safer, it's not likely to get used
down below, at least I hope not :)
Bill H.
(valve outside with stem thru to inside) The practice was that when
finished with the stove, turn the valve off and let the burner(s) die
a natural death. It was a bit inconvenient and caused some
complaining from my galley wench until I showed her a Columbia twenty
something that had a propane explosion - not a whisper from her since
then.
down below, at least I hope not :)
Bill H.
> I've had propane cookers on 3 boats now and never had any realissues. On two of them I had a valve with the stem near the cooker.
(valve outside with stem thru to inside) The practice was that when
finished with the stove, turn the valve off and let the burner(s) die
a natural death. It was a bit inconvenient and caused some
complaining from my galley wench until I showed her a Columbia twenty
something that had a propane explosion - not a whisper from her since
then.
>but then I had a bilge sniffer. The practice remained as above.
> On the last boat, I finally trusted an electrical switch valve -
>valve
> My greatest fear was the gasoline outboard on the last one.
>
> Cheers,
> Ed
>
>
> From: Bill Hamm <griff10us@...>
> Date: 2008/02/28 Thu PM 01:31:14 CST
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [bolger] Re: Diesel or Propane for Cooking?
>
>
> Propane can be safely used, well relatively safely. Requires a
> though on the tank itself outside the hull, most are done remotelysource
> and a manual valve at the stove itself. Hoses can and do leak, you
> want to insure that any fittings that could leak don't have a
> of pressurized propane behind them. Gas sniffers and CO2 sniffersand
> are good insurance.
>
> Many years back I used a camp stove on a very small cruiser (16')
> stored the cylinders in the locker with the gas tank that ventedconnexion
> overboard, also had the stove in the cockpit only, never down below
> (not alot of down below in a 16' boat to start with <g>).
>
> Bill H.
>
> > I don't think I've seen a better setup for propane than in george
> > Buehler's "Backyard Boatbuilding".
> > Tanks are stored externally in a well with no drainage into the
> hull.
> > Galley has a manual connexion to tank valve. Open manual
> andabout
> > gas starts to flow.
> > Light stove. Cook.
> > When finished, turn off gas flow using manual connexion.
> > Flame gradually dies on stove.
> > Almost idiot proof.
> > Idiots please point out failings ;-)
> >
> > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@> wrote:
> > >
> > > On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 6:29 AM, adventures_in_astrophotography
> > > <jon@> wrote:
> > >
> > > > We have experience with propane, but not on boats. Propane
> delivers
> > > > instant heat that's easy to regulate. It's available just
> > > > everywhere. We could use a cheap and effective camping stovewith
> > >
> > > I use a 'plain old' propane camp stove on my Micro Navigator
> > > almost with daily use, and I am perfectly happy with thestove
> arrangement.
> > > As to the safety issue, I simply unscrew the bottle from the
> > > after every use. (A few times I did not, I found that itleaked,
> andgets
> > > the bottle was empty the next day.) Occasionally, I have fired
> the
> > > stove up to give a quick blast of heat. If the condensation
> > > high, I open the window.
> > >
> > > Simple, compact, cheap and effective.
> > >
> >
>
I've had propane cookers on 3 boats now and never had any real issues. On two of them I had a valve with the stem near the cooker. (valve outside with stem thru to inside) The practice was that when finished with the stove, turn the valve off and let the burner(s) die a natural death. It was a bit inconvenient and caused some complaining from my galley wench until I showed her a Columbia twenty something that had a propane explosion - not a whisper from her since then.
On the last boat, I finally trusted an electrical switch valve - but then I had a bilge sniffer. The practice remained as above.
My greatest fear was the gasoline outboard on the last one.
Cheers,
Ed
From: Bill Hamm <griff10us@...>
Date: 2008/02/28 Thu PM 01:31:14 CST
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Diesel or Propane for Cooking?
Propane can be safely used, well relatively safely. Requires a valve
though on the tank itself outside the hull, most are done remotely
and a manual valve at the stove itself. Hoses can and do leak, you
want to insure that any fittings that could leak don't have a source
of pressurized propane behind them. Gas sniffers and CO2 sniffers
are good insurance.
Many years back I used a camp stove on a very small cruiser (16') and
stored the cylinders in the locker with the gas tank that vented
overboard, also had the stove in the cockpit only, never down below
(not alot of down below in a 16' boat to start with <g>).
Bill H.
On the last boat, I finally trusted an electrical switch valve - but then I had a bilge sniffer. The practice remained as above.
My greatest fear was the gasoline outboard on the last one.
Cheers,
Ed
From: Bill Hamm <griff10us@...>
Date: 2008/02/28 Thu PM 01:31:14 CST
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Diesel or Propane for Cooking?
Propane can be safely used, well relatively safely. Requires a valve
though on the tank itself outside the hull, most are done remotely
and a manual valve at the stove itself. Hoses can and do leak, you
want to insure that any fittings that could leak don't have a source
of pressurized propane behind them. Gas sniffers and CO2 sniffers
are good insurance.
Many years back I used a camp stove on a very small cruiser (16') and
stored the cylinders in the locker with the gas tank that vented
overboard, also had the stove in the cockpit only, never down below
(not alot of down below in a 16' boat to start with <g>).
Bill H.
> I don't think I've seen a better setup for propane than in georgehull.
> Buehler's "Backyard Boatbuilding".
> Tanks are stored externally in a well with no drainage into the
> Galley has a manual connexion to tank valve. Open manual connexionand
> gas starts to flow.delivers
> Light stove. Cook.
> When finished, turn off gas flow using manual connexion.
> Flame gradually dies on stove.
> Almost idiot proof.
> Idiots please point out failings ;-)
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@> wrote:
> >
> > On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 6:29 AM, adventures_in_astrophotography
> > <jon@> wrote:
> >
> > > We have experience with propane, but not on boats. Propane
> > > instant heat that's easy to regulate. It's available just aboutarrangement.
> > > everywhere. We could use a cheap and effective camping stove
> >
> > I use a 'plain old' propane camp stove on my Micro Navigator with
> > almost with daily use, and I am perfectly happy with the
> > As to the safety issue, I simply unscrew the bottle from the stoveand
> > after every use. (A few times I did not, I found that it leaked,
> > the bottle was empty the next day.) Occasionally, I have firedthe
> > stove up to give a quick blast of heat. If the condensation gets
> > high, I open the window.
> >
> > Simple, compact, cheap and effective.
> >
>
Propane can be safely used, well relatively safely. Requires a valve
though on the tank itself outside the hull, most are done remotely
and a manual valve at the stove itself. Hoses can and do leak, you
want to insure that any fittings that could leak don't have a source
of pressurized propane behind them. Gas sniffers and CO2 sniffers
are good insurance.
Many years back I used a camp stove on a very small cruiser (16') and
stored the cylinders in the locker with the gas tank that vented
overboard, also had the stove in the cockpit only, never down below
(not alot of down below in a 16' boat to start with <g>).
Bill H.
though on the tank itself outside the hull, most are done remotely
and a manual valve at the stove itself. Hoses can and do leak, you
want to insure that any fittings that could leak don't have a source
of pressurized propane behind them. Gas sniffers and CO2 sniffers
are good insurance.
Many years back I used a camp stove on a very small cruiser (16') and
stored the cylinders in the locker with the gas tank that vented
overboard, also had the stove in the cockpit only, never down below
(not alot of down below in a 16' boat to start with <g>).
Bill H.
> I don't think I've seen a better setup for propane than in georgehull.
> Buehler's "Backyard Boatbuilding".
> Tanks are stored externally in a well with no drainage into the
> Galley has a manual connexion to tank valve. Open manual connexionand
> gas starts to flow.delivers
> Light stove. Cook.
> When finished, turn off gas flow using manual connexion.
> Flame gradually dies on stove.
> Almost idiot proof.
> Idiots please point out failings ;-)
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@> wrote:
> >
> > On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 6:29 AM, adventures_in_astrophotography
> > <jon@> wrote:
> >
> > > We have experience with propane, but not on boats. Propane
> > > instant heat that's easy to regulate. It's available just aboutarrangement.
> > > everywhere. We could use a cheap and effective camping stove
> >
> > I use a 'plain old' propane camp stove on my Micro Navigator with
> > almost with daily use, and I am perfectly happy with the
> > As to the safety issue, I simply unscrew the bottle from the stoveand
> > after every use. (A few times I did not, I found that it leaked,
> > the bottle was empty the next day.) Occasionally, I have firedthe
> > stove up to give a quick blast of heat. If the condensation gets
> > high, I open the window.
> >
> > Simple, compact, cheap and effective.
> >
>
A couple things that I haven't seen mentioned yet, or maybe they did and just got lost in the blah. Having spent a good portion of my life living 50' from the ocean I can attest to the corrosive nature of the environment. Until they came up with the tank exchange fro the five gallon propane tanks, even when stored in the garage out of the elements the valves would be shot after a year or two at most. I can think of several fancy frozen snot boats that had special lockers for the propane tank out on deck. Both boats owned by friends who use them a couple times a month. On more than one occasion I can remember them cussing because the valves had frozen up do to corrosion. This of course only happens when you are bbqing for a large group and all the filling stations are closed!
The other thing is that with diesel stoves you get a lot of heat, so for warmer climates they are not the best. Think old wood cook stove. They are nice in the fact that the heat produced is much like that of wood, in that it is a dry heat, so when your coastal that is nice for getting the chill off.
Dirtsailor
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The other thing is that with diesel stoves you get a lot of heat, so for warmer climates they are not the best. Think old wood cook stove. They are nice in the fact that the heat produced is much like that of wood, in that it is a dry heat, so when your coastal that is nice for getting the chill off.
Dirtsailor
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Thanks to everyone for their inputs on diesel versus propane for
cooking. There's certainly a lot of good information to consider in
all of your responses and I really appreciate it.
According to what we've been told, PB&F currnetly show a propane stove
and two diesel heaters. Naturally the propane tanks are outside the
watertight envelope. The heaters are new since the first proposals
several years ago. We expect to substitute a small wood burner for at
least one of the diesel heaters, and we could easily specify a diesel
stove if we wish. The requirements called for cruising "anywhere but
high latitudes" so heating and cooking must both be considered. A
woodburner will be necessary in order to perform interior build-out
inside the closed-in hull during cold weather, but we also just plain
like wood fires and their dry heat.
Jon Kolb
www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
cooking. There's certainly a lot of good information to consider in
all of your responses and I really appreciate it.
According to what we've been told, PB&F currnetly show a propane stove
and two diesel heaters. Naturally the propane tanks are outside the
watertight envelope. The heaters are new since the first proposals
several years ago. We expect to substitute a small wood burner for at
least one of the diesel heaters, and we could easily specify a diesel
stove if we wish. The requirements called for cruising "anywhere but
high latitudes" so heating and cooking must both be considered. A
woodburner will be necessary in order to perform interior build-out
inside the closed-in hull during cold weather, but we also just plain
like wood fires and their dry heat.
Jon Kolb
www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
I've got an alcohol stove on my sailboat and couldn't be happier. The fuel is relatively cheap if you factor in the safety factor. (the last gallon I bought from home depot-it's just denatured alcohol-was about $9.00) I've got the Origa non pressurized stove and it's a pleasure to use. No pumping. Just pour alcohol into the reservoir which has a cotton like fiber in it so it doesn't spill, and it's good to go. The smell is a bit on the sweet side but I don't find it offensive. The burners put out a good bit of heat. I haven't done any controlled tests, but I'm sure it boils water faster than the propane stove that came with the boat.
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S0o what is wrong with it. First as the boat rocks and roles pipe
fittings can losen and leak. Hoses break down over time used or not.
Ball valves wear and start to leak. That is why there is a auto
shutoff at the tanks or stuped is as stupid dose forgets to shut off
at tank it is stormy out. On a good day it wouldn't matter on a bad
you learn to fly.
Jon
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "c_a_p_t_a_i_n_r_o_n" <DAVE.PEAK@...>
wrote:
fittings can losen and leak. Hoses break down over time used or not.
Ball valves wear and start to leak. That is why there is a auto
shutoff at the tanks or stuped is as stupid dose forgets to shut off
at tank it is stormy out. On a good day it wouldn't matter on a bad
you learn to fly.
Jon
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "c_a_p_t_a_i_n_r_o_n" <DAVE.PEAK@...>
wrote:
>hull.
> I don't think I've seen a better setup for propane than in george
> Buehler's "Backyard Boatbuilding".
> Tanks are stored externally in a well with no drainage into the
> Galley has a manual connexion to tank valve. Open manual connexionand
> gas starts to flow.delivers
> Light stove. Cook.
> When finished, turn off gas flow using manual connexion.
> Flame gradually dies on stove.
> Almost idiot proof.
> Idiots please point out failings ;-)
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@> wrote:
> >
> > On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 6:29 AM, adventures_in_astrophotography
> > <jon@> wrote:
> >
> > > We have experience with propane, but not on boats. Propane
> > > instant heat that's easy to regulate. It's available just aboutarrangement.
> > > everywhere. We could use a cheap and effective camping stove
> >
> > I use a 'plain old' propane camp stove on my Micro Navigator with
> > almost with daily use, and I am perfectly happy with the
> > As to the safety issue, I simply unscrew the bottle from the stoveand
> > after every use. (A few times I did not, I found that it leaked,
> > the bottle was empty the next day.) Occasionally, I have firedthe
> > stove up to give a quick blast of heat. If the condensation gets
> > high, I open the window.
> >
> > Simple, compact, cheap and effective.
> >
>
Jon you also have to look at where and when you are going to be sailing. If you are going to be in places that are cool to cold and you are going to want space heating, go with the diesel. If you are in warmer waters where you are just cooking propane would be nice.
Also how much cabin space do you have to heat? There is more to look at then just your cooking needs.
I think it's wabasto that has a combo unit that is a heater and cook top that runs on diesel. I know they are not cheap. But they do work well.
I saw a boat that had a diesel stove and a two burner propane cook top.
A few have touched on the use of propane detectors and auto shut-offs That is a very good idea. You should also look at putting in a CO detector as well, It's just a good idea! All the new RVs have them why not your boat?? What's your life worth??
Blessings Krissie
adventures_in_astrophotography <jon@...> wrote: It looks like we're finally getting somewhere with Auriga's design,
and I'm in two minds about the fuel for cooking.
We have experience with propane, but not on boats. Propane delivers
instant heat that's easy to regulate. It's available just about
everywhere. We could use a cheap and effective camping stove
instead of an expensive "marine" stove, particularly if we don't
want an oven.
We have no experience with diesel in any application at this point.
We'll have loads of diesel fuel on board for the Deutz. I'm told
that diesel stoves take a long time to warm up sufficiently for
cooking. Diesel is safer to have on a boat, especially one with a
large battery bank, and thus spark potential, at the lowest point in
the hull. Diesel stoves are very expensive, at least the ones I've
found.
Anyone care to share their experiences with either fuel? Thanks in
advance,
Jon Kolb
www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Also how much cabin space do you have to heat? There is more to look at then just your cooking needs.
I think it's wabasto that has a combo unit that is a heater and cook top that runs on diesel. I know they are not cheap. But they do work well.
I saw a boat that had a diesel stove and a two burner propane cook top.
A few have touched on the use of propane detectors and auto shut-offs That is a very good idea. You should also look at putting in a CO detector as well, It's just a good idea! All the new RVs have them why not your boat?? What's your life worth??
Blessings Krissie
adventures_in_astrophotography <jon@...> wrote: It looks like we're finally getting somewhere with Auriga's design,
and I'm in two minds about the fuel for cooking.
We have experience with propane, but not on boats. Propane delivers
instant heat that's easy to regulate. It's available just about
everywhere. We could use a cheap and effective camping stove
instead of an expensive "marine" stove, particularly if we don't
want an oven.
We have no experience with diesel in any application at this point.
We'll have loads of diesel fuel on board for the Deutz. I'm told
that diesel stoves take a long time to warm up sufficiently for
cooking. Diesel is safer to have on a boat, especially one with a
large battery bank, and thus spark potential, at the lowest point in
the hull. Diesel stoves are very expensive, at least the ones I've
found.
Anyone care to share their experiences with either fuel? Thanks in
advance,
Jon Kolb
www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I don't think I've seen a better setup for propane than in george
Buehler's "Backyard Boatbuilding".
Tanks are stored externally in a well with no drainage into the hull.
Galley has a manual connexion to tank valve. Open manual connexion and
gas starts to flow.
Light stove. Cook.
When finished, turn off gas flow using manual connexion.
Flame gradually dies on stove.
Almost idiot proof.
Idiots please point out failings ;-)
Buehler's "Backyard Boatbuilding".
Tanks are stored externally in a well with no drainage into the hull.
Galley has a manual connexion to tank valve. Open manual connexion and
gas starts to flow.
Light stove. Cook.
When finished, turn off gas flow using manual connexion.
Flame gradually dies on stove.
Almost idiot proof.
Idiots please point out failings ;-)
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...> wrote:
>
> On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 6:29 AM, adventures_in_astrophotography
> <jon@...> wrote:
>
> > We have experience with propane, but not on boats. Propane delivers
> > instant heat that's easy to regulate. It's available just about
> > everywhere. We could use a cheap and effective camping stove
>
> I use a 'plain old' propane camp stove on my Micro Navigator with
> almost with daily use, and I am perfectly happy with the arrangement.
> As to the safety issue, I simply unscrew the bottle from the stove
> after every use. (A few times I did not, I found that it leaked, and
> the bottle was empty the next day.) Occasionally, I have fired the
> stove up to give a quick blast of heat. If the condensation gets
> high, I open the window.
>
> Simple, compact, cheap and effective.
>
Production boats with propane are required to have auto shutoffs and
gas snoffers in the bilge. Tankes in a sealed compartment with a vent
out the bottom to the exterior. Defender has info and all the goodies
for the doit yourselfer. Propane is only safe with the proper safty
equipment. Carbon monoxide testers can be added to some systems. 5
bills buys a lot better sleep.
Jon
gas snoffers in the bilge. Tankes in a sealed compartment with a vent
out the bottom to the exterior. Defender has info and all the goodies
for the doit yourselfer. Propane is only safe with the proper safty
equipment. Carbon monoxide testers can be added to some systems. 5
bills buys a lot better sleep.
Jon
I had a optimus with roarer burner that was in a seaswing I used it
for a year of cruising with flawless results. Used cheap lamp fuel in
it and had no smell. most btu per dollar spent.
mike
for a year of cruising with flawless results. Used cheap lamp fuel in
it and had no smell. most btu per dollar spent.
mike
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Hajo Smulders" <hajosmulders@...> wrote:
>
> I prefer propane over diesel. It's easier to start and cook.
> they are cheap and can be picked up anywhere including used.
> Propane is just as safe as diesel if not more so if you keep the bottle
> OUTSIDE of your hull. Any small leak won't have gas buildup.
>
> (Modern American bottles are pretty good quality anyway.)
> I have always done the same with the gastank - jerrycan for gas for an
> outboard:
> I build a specialized "box" for it on deck; epoxy the wood
thoroughly and
> then drill a bunch of good sized holes in it so vapors can escape.
> The box serves no real other function than to make it less ugly;
>
> Hajo
>
> On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 9:29 AM, adventures_in_astrophotography <
> jon@...> wrote:
>
> > It looks like we're finally getting somewhere with Auriga's design,
> > and I'm in two minds about the fuel for cooking.
> >
> > We have experience with propane, but not on boats. Propane delivers
> > instant heat that's easy to regulate. It's available just about
> > everywhere. We could use a cheap and effective camping stove
> > instead of an expensive "marine" stove, particularly if we don't
> > want an oven.
> >
> > We have no experience with diesel in any application at this point.
> > We'll have loads of diesel fuel on board for the Deutz. I'm told
> > that diesel stoves take a long time to warm up sufficiently for
> > cooking. Diesel is safer to have on a boat, especially one with a
> > large battery bank, and thus spark potential, at the lowest point in
> > the hull. Diesel stoves are very expensive, at least the ones I've
> > found.
> >
> > Anyone care to share their experiences with either fuel? Thanks in
> > advance,
> >
> > Jon Kolb
> > www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> There is a tragic flaw in our precious Constitution, and I don't
know what
> can be done to fix it. This is it: Only nut cases want to be president.
> - Kurt Vonnegut
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
I stand corrected, thank you for the information. When I purchased
the stove I have, this was one of the selling points was that it was
presented as safer than propane because it was lighter than air.
Paul H.
the stove I have, this was one of the selling points was that it was
presented as safer than propane because it was lighter than air.
Paul H.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Peter McCorison <k2spr@...> wrote:
>
> I'm a long-time lurker on this list and have learned much from the
> experienced builders here. Appreciation of all your expertise.
>
> But I can't keep silent on this one:
>
> BUTANE IS NOT LIGHTER THAN AIR!! This is a dangerous error. Butane
must
> be treated on board just like propane. Please see the MSDS at
>
>http://www2.siri.org/msds/mf/cards/file/0232.html.
>
> For a lighter-than-air stove gas, use compressed natural gas (CNG).
This
> has other issues, though, like high pressure (~2000 psi) cylinders,
> special stove setup, and a general lack of availability.
>
> Keep on building!
>
> Regards,
>
> Peter
> Orcas Island, WA
>
> Paul wrote:
> > Another alternative is butane, which unlike propane is
> > lighter than air and thus will not collect in the bilges.
>
Most production boats and other cruisers I see all have propane these
days. Liveaboards and cruisers that I see and read about use propane
over 90% of the time. It does have a catastrophic failure mode but so
does driving and flying. If you follow the safety rules for installation
and maintenance then the possibility of failure is very very remote.
Here is a good tank to use, non metal.
http://www.litecylinder.com/
That being said I don't use propane, not because of any safety worries
but because of where I live, the PNW. When I got the Triton up here the
first thing I did is buy a Dickinson, the Bristol (smallest) model. The
local dealer sells for way under the listed price in the $1000 range. I
got the chimney and through deck fittings on ebay. Propane or any other
open flame is unusable here, the windows and cabin sides just run like
rivers. On those few days when it is too hot to use the Dickinson I haul
out the Coleman Camp stove.
For a smaller boat I would use the
http://www.fatscostoves.com/wood stove
or the Walbro like used on the Black Skimmer here second picture down.
http://www.nexusmarine.com/skimmer_interiors.html
Clean efficient installation for both heat and cooking. I was pleased to
see this because it was exactly what I would have done. Love to have my
opinions reinforced, not that it is necessary at my age.
HJ
adventures_in_astrophotography wrote:
days. Liveaboards and cruisers that I see and read about use propane
over 90% of the time. It does have a catastrophic failure mode but so
does driving and flying. If you follow the safety rules for installation
and maintenance then the possibility of failure is very very remote.
Here is a good tank to use, non metal.
http://www.litecylinder.com/
That being said I don't use propane, not because of any safety worries
but because of where I live, the PNW. When I got the Triton up here the
first thing I did is buy a Dickinson, the Bristol (smallest) model. The
local dealer sells for way under the listed price in the $1000 range. I
got the chimney and through deck fittings on ebay. Propane or any other
open flame is unusable here, the windows and cabin sides just run like
rivers. On those few days when it is too hot to use the Dickinson I haul
out the Coleman Camp stove.
For a smaller boat I would use the
http://www.fatscostoves.com/wood stove
or the Walbro like used on the Black Skimmer here second picture down.
http://www.nexusmarine.com/skimmer_interiors.html
Clean efficient installation for both heat and cooking. I was pleased to
see this because it was exactly what I would have done. Love to have my
opinions reinforced, not that it is necessary at my age.
HJ
adventures_in_astrophotography wrote:
> It looks like we're finally getting somewhere with Auriga's design,
> and I'm in two minds about the fuel for cooking.
>
> We have experience with propane, but not on boats. Propane delivers
> instant heat that's easy to regulate. It's available just about
> everywhere. We could use a cheap and effective camping stove
> instead of an expensive "marine" stove, particularly if we don't
> want an oven.
>
> We have no experience with diesel in any application at this point.
> We'll have loads of diesel fuel on board for the Deutz. I'm told
> that diesel stoves take a long time to warm up sufficiently for
> cooking. Diesel is safer to have on a boat, especially one with a
> large battery bank, and thus spark potential, at the lowest point in
> the hull. Diesel stoves are very expensive, at least the ones I've
> found.
>
> Anyone care to share their experiences with either fuel? Thanks in
> advance,
>
> Jon Kolb
> www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
> In rationalization of my use of propane on my Micro Navigator, I takeVentilation would be fine IF propane were lighter than air. The
> a bit of solace in the fact that the cabin as designed has exceptional
> ventilation. (Much better than the factory fiberglass sloops with
> which I have had experience.)
>
problem is that it is heavier and will sink into the bilges rather than
be carried off on the breeze.
Paul H.
We had a propane cooker with oven on our Jessie Cooper. It worked well but I have always
been nervous about things that can explode so when we built Loose Moose 2 we opted for
a kerosene cooker ( a Taylor) and it was an ongoing nightmare...We tried everything Multi
fuel burner, preheating with alchol and blow torches and no matter what we did the
Kerosene/diesel burners would clog up in a couple of days. In hindsight the single biggest
bit of work on the boat we did was rebuilding the burners again, again and again!
Of course I got pretty good at it but life is just too short for a kerosene stove unless you
are into serious masochism.
The other negative for diesel/kerosene as a stove fuel is that everything on the boat will
smell like fuel and while you won't notice it afeter awhile everyone else will ( in the same
way that heavy smokers don't relize how badly they reek of cigerettes)
The last negative for the kerosene is the cost these days is simply evil and if you factor in
the buying burners ( you will) and rebuild kits ( you will) the cost of propane is very cheap.
Propane is so much cheaper in fact that it allows you to spend a bit of money on a remote
solenoid and gas sniffer that makes most of the dangers associated with propane go away.
Bob
http://boatbits.blogspot.com/
been nervous about things that can explode so when we built Loose Moose 2 we opted for
a kerosene cooker ( a Taylor) and it was an ongoing nightmare...We tried everything Multi
fuel burner, preheating with alchol and blow torches and no matter what we did the
Kerosene/diesel burners would clog up in a couple of days. In hindsight the single biggest
bit of work on the boat we did was rebuilding the burners again, again and again!
Of course I got pretty good at it but life is just too short for a kerosene stove unless you
are into serious masochism.
The other negative for diesel/kerosene as a stove fuel is that everything on the boat will
smell like fuel and while you won't notice it afeter awhile everyone else will ( in the same
way that heavy smokers don't relize how badly they reek of cigerettes)
The last negative for the kerosene is the cost these days is simply evil and if you factor in
the buying burners ( you will) and rebuild kits ( you will) the cost of propane is very cheap.
Propane is so much cheaper in fact that it allows you to spend a bit of money on a remote
solenoid and gas sniffer that makes most of the dangers associated with propane go away.
Bob
http://boatbits.blogspot.com/
If you are planning on a diesel engine then go with diesel. If not,
I'd suggest a fuel that rises away from the boat and doesn't sink
into the bilges.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "adventures_in_astrophotography"
<jon@...> wrote:
I'd suggest a fuel that rises away from the boat and doesn't sink
into the bilges.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "adventures_in_astrophotography"
<jon@...> wrote:
>delivers
> It looks like we're finally getting somewhere with Auriga's design,
> and I'm in two minds about the fuel for cooking.
>
> We have experience with propane, but not on boats. Propane
> instant heat that's easy to regulate. It's available just aboutpoint.
> everywhere. We could use a cheap and effective camping stove
> instead of an expensive "marine" stove, particularly if we don't
> want an oven.
>
> We have no experience with diesel in any application at this
> We'll have loads of diesel fuel on board for the Deutz. I'm toldin
> that diesel stoves take a long time to warm up sufficiently for
> cooking. Diesel is safer to have on a boat, especially one with a
> large battery bank, and thus spark potential, at the lowest point
> the hull. Diesel stoves are very expensive, at least the ones I've
> found.
>
> Anyone care to share their experiences with either fuel? Thanks in
> advance,
>
> Jon Kolb
> www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
>
Thought I'd mention I stopped using th match and went to soapy water
when a flash ocured in a locker while check for leaks.
Doug
Douglas Pollard wrote:
when a flash ocured in a locker while check for leaks.
Doug
Douglas Pollard wrote:
>
> In reading these posts, it seems a matter of druthers with the exception
> of Propane that can blow the whole boat up. Any pressurized stove is a
> danger to the user. I have heard of alcohol stoves springing a leak an
> dowsing the user with alcohol. The more often accident is with a flareup
> when lighting. Pressurised kero or diesel could also spring a leak
> though it may be harder to ignite. I think most of the older diesel used
> alcohol to heat up the burners rohrers they were called. Maybe modern
> one are quieter?? One thing is for sure propane is dangerouse. I used
> to keep a calender of when was the last time I went around all the
> fittings with a long match like the ones that were used to light grills
> a while back. I did that once a month, every fitting. Like I said we
> used it but you have to remain afraid of it. Getting comfortable with
> it is really dangerouse.
> It's for sure you better use every avialable precausion with
> propane. A frind of mine who used the other gas,(for got the name)
> worried about it leaking and collecting under the decks.
> Had a wood stove on the boat once made a huge mistake of burning
> soft coal in it one time and the soot from the soft coal stopped up the
> flue and about 3am I craweled out into the cockpit to weak to stand.
> Pure luck I'm here today. The other danger from it was, stupid me, I
> cut wood out in the woods split it and brought it aboard. It having rot
> init rotted the frames and planking behind the wood stove. After that I
> only burned house lumber not wanting to bring rot aboard. I covered the
> inside of the wood bin in galvanized metal and solderd the seams to
> prevent contamination.
> Doug
> >
> > Anyone considering using propane should consider this true story...3
> or 4
> > years ago my cousin and her husband, who live in San Angelo, rented a
> > large
> > houseboat on one of the big man-made lakes in Central Texas...with three
> > children and childrens' husbands and friends they motored way up the
> > lake, anchored
> > for the evening and began to prepare supper, frying fish on the propane
> > kitchen stove...at some point the cook asked someone to close the big
> > sliding doors
> > up front because bugs were flying in....a few minutes later the entire
> > inside
> > of the cabin erupted in a flash fire...the initial fire burned
> itself out
> > after a few seconds, and the men quickly put out the remaining flames,
> > but the
> > fire lasted long enough to cause burns on some of the peoples' exposed
> > skin that
> > were serious enough to require medevac chopper flights to the nearest
> > hospital in San Antonio, and painful skin grafts. What had been a
> > pleasant family
> > vacation turned into a nightmare in seconds because of an un-detected
> > propane
> > leak.
> > Personally, I'd cook with pine knots and old cedar fence posts
> before I'd
> > have a propane tank on a boat.
> >
> > Tyson in Galveston
> > 50 F and sunny... humidity 36%....wind NE at 8 mph water temp 61 F
> >
> > **************
> > Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
> >
> >
> (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/2050
> <http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/2050>
>
> >
> <http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/2050
> <http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/2050>>
> > 827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
>
>
On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 9:14 AM, Hajo Smulders <hajosmulders@...> wrote:
to extreme lengths to control the hazard. I think anything burning
can give off carbon monoxide, (including propane, gas, cigarettes,
etc.) and the safety strategy is to provide failsafe ventilation.
Excellent ventilation is one (of many) signature elements in all
Bolger boat designs.
>PCB is clearly respectful of carbon monoxide risk, and routinely goes
> The coal stove scares me more than properly handled and stored propane.
> Carbon monoxide poisoning is not exactly a rare occurrence...
>
> Hajo
to extreme lengths to control the hazard. I think anything burning
can give off carbon monoxide, (including propane, gas, cigarettes,
etc.) and the safety strategy is to provide failsafe ventilation.
Excellent ventilation is one (of many) signature elements in all
Bolger boat designs.
In reading these posts, it seems a matter of druthers with the exception
of Propane that can blow the whole boat up. Any pressurized stove is a
danger to the user. I have heard of alcohol stoves springing a leak an
dowsing the user with alcohol. The more often accident is with a flareup
when lighting. Pressurised kero or diesel could also spring a leak
though it may be harder to ignite. I think most of the older diesel used
alcohol to heat up the burners rohrers they were called. Maybe modern
one are quieter?? One thing is for sure propane is dangerouse. I used
to keep a calender of when was the last time I went around all the
fittings with a long match like the ones that were used to light grills
a while back. I did that once a month, every fitting. Like I said we
used it but you have to remain afraid of it. Getting comfortable with
it is really dangerouse.
It's for sure you better use every avialable precausion with
propane. A frind of mine who used the other gas,(for got the name)
worried about it leaking and collecting under the decks.
Had a wood stove on the boat once made a huge mistake of burning
soft coal in it one time and the soot from the soft coal stopped up the
flue and about 3am I craweled out into the cockpit to weak to stand.
Pure luck I'm here today. The other danger from it was, stupid me, I
cut wood out in the woods split it and brought it aboard. It having rot
init rotted the frames and planking behind the wood stove. After that I
only burned house lumber not wanting to bring rot aboard. I covered the
inside of the wood bin in galvanized metal and solderd the seams to
prevent contamination.
Doug
of Propane that can blow the whole boat up. Any pressurized stove is a
danger to the user. I have heard of alcohol stoves springing a leak an
dowsing the user with alcohol. The more often accident is with a flareup
when lighting. Pressurised kero or diesel could also spring a leak
though it may be harder to ignite. I think most of the older diesel used
alcohol to heat up the burners rohrers they were called. Maybe modern
one are quieter?? One thing is for sure propane is dangerouse. I used
to keep a calender of when was the last time I went around all the
fittings with a long match like the ones that were used to light grills
a while back. I did that once a month, every fitting. Like I said we
used it but you have to remain afraid of it. Getting comfortable with
it is really dangerouse.
It's for sure you better use every avialable precausion with
propane. A frind of mine who used the other gas,(for got the name)
worried about it leaking and collecting under the decks.
Had a wood stove on the boat once made a huge mistake of burning
soft coal in it one time and the soot from the soft coal stopped up the
flue and about 3am I craweled out into the cockpit to weak to stand.
Pure luck I'm here today. The other danger from it was, stupid me, I
cut wood out in the woods split it and brought it aboard. It having rot
init rotted the frames and planking behind the wood stove. After that I
only burned house lumber not wanting to bring rot aboard. I covered the
inside of the wood bin in galvanized metal and solderd the seams to
prevent contamination.
Doug
>
> Anyone considering using propane should consider this true story...3 or 4
> years ago my cousin and her husband, who live in San Angelo, rented a
> large
> houseboat on one of the big man-made lakes in Central Texas...with three
> children and childrens' husbands and friends they motored way up the
> lake, anchored
> for the evening and began to prepare supper, frying fish on the propane
> kitchen stove...at some point the cook asked someone to close the big
> sliding doors
> up front because bugs were flying in....a few minutes later the entire
> inside
> of the cabin erupted in a flash fire...the initial fire burned itself out
> after a few seconds, and the men quickly put out the remaining flames,
> but the
> fire lasted long enough to cause burns on some of the peoples' exposed
> skin that
> were serious enough to require medevac chopper flights to the nearest
> hospital in San Antonio, and painful skin grafts. What had been a
> pleasant family
> vacation turned into a nightmare in seconds because of an un-detected
> propane
> leak.
> Personally, I'd cook with pine knots and old cedar fence posts before I'd
> have a propane tank on a boat.
>
> Tyson in Galveston
> 50 F and sunny... humidity 36%....wind NE at 8 mph water temp 61 F
>
> **************
> Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
>
> (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/2050
> <http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/2050>
> 827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
The coal stove scares me more than properly handled and stored propane.
Carbon monoxide poisoning is not exactly a rare occurrence...
Hajo
Carbon monoxide poisoning is not exactly a rare occurrence...
Hajo
On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 12:07 PM, Bruce Hallman <bruce@...> wrote:
> And what would PCB do? He seems to favor kerosene stoves, specifying
> their use in many boats. In some boats (Champlain, Watervan, etc.)
> you see propane stoves, but always with the propane tank stored with
> great ventilation in a box outside the hull. I can think of very few
> diesel stoves, Col. Hassler is one. I can think of no propane camp
> stoves with interior storage of the propane bottle. I am sure there
> is a PCB writeup about this topic, but I cannot immediately think of
> where. Perhaps the true test of 'what would PCB do' is what he did
> with Resolution, and there he used a coal stove.
>
> In rationalization of my use of propane on my Micro Navigator, I take
> a bit of solace in the fact that the cabin as designed has exceptional
> ventilation. (Much better than the factory fiberglass sloops with
> which I have had experience.)
>
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There is a tragic flaw in our precious Constitution, and I don't know what
can be done to fix it. This is it: Only nut cases want to be president.
- Kurt Vonnegut
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I'm a long-time lurker on this list and have learned much from the
experienced builders here. Appreciation of all your expertise.
But I can't keep silent on this one:
BUTANE IS NOT LIGHTER THAN AIR!! This is a dangerous error. Butane must
be treated on board just like propane. Please see the MSDS at
http://www2.siri.org/msds/mf/cards/file/0232.html.
For a lighter-than-air stove gas, use compressed natural gas (CNG). This
has other issues, though, like high pressure (~2000 psi) cylinders,
special stove setup, and a general lack of availability.
Keep on building!
Regards,
Peter
Orcas Island, WA
Paul wrote:
experienced builders here. Appreciation of all your expertise.
But I can't keep silent on this one:
BUTANE IS NOT LIGHTER THAN AIR!! This is a dangerous error. Butane must
be treated on board just like propane. Please see the MSDS at
http://www2.siri.org/msds/mf/cards/file/0232.html.
For a lighter-than-air stove gas, use compressed natural gas (CNG). This
has other issues, though, like high pressure (~2000 psi) cylinders,
special stove setup, and a general lack of availability.
Keep on building!
Regards,
Peter
Orcas Island, WA
Paul wrote:
> Another alternative is butane, which unlike propane is
> lighter than air and thus will not collect in the bilges.
And what would PCB do? He seems to favor kerosene stoves, specifying
their use in many boats. In some boats (Champlain, Watervan, etc.)
you see propane stoves, but always with the propane tank stored with
great ventilation in a box outside the hull. I can think of very few
diesel stoves, Col. Hassler is one. I can think of no propane camp
stoves with interior storage of the propane bottle. I am sure there
is a PCB writeup about this topic, but I cannot immediately think of
where. Perhaps the true test of 'what would PCB do' is what he did
with Resolution, and there he used a coal stove.
In rationalization of my use of propane on my Micro Navigator, I take
a bit of solace in the fact that the cabin as designed has exceptional
ventilation. (Much better than the factory fiberglass sloops with
which I have had experience.)
their use in many boats. In some boats (Champlain, Watervan, etc.)
you see propane stoves, but always with the propane tank stored with
great ventilation in a box outside the hull. I can think of very few
diesel stoves, Col. Hassler is one. I can think of no propane camp
stoves with interior storage of the propane bottle. I am sure there
is a PCB writeup about this topic, but I cannot immediately think of
where. Perhaps the true test of 'what would PCB do' is what he did
with Resolution, and there he used a coal stove.
In rationalization of my use of propane on my Micro Navigator, I take
a bit of solace in the fact that the cabin as designed has exceptional
ventilation. (Much better than the factory fiberglass sloops with
which I have had experience.)
Anyone considering using propane should consider this true story...3 or 4
years ago my cousin and her husband, who live in San Angelo, rented a large
houseboat on one of the big man-made lakes in Central Texas...with three
children and childrens' husbands and friends they motored way up the lake, anchored
for the evening and began to prepare supper, frying fish on the propane
kitchen stove...at some point the cook asked someone to close the big sliding doors
up front because bugs were flying in....a few minutes later the entire inside
of the cabin erupted in a flash fire...the initial fire burned itself out
after a few seconds, and the men quickly put out the remaining flames, but the
fire lasted long enough to cause burns on some of the peoples' exposed skin that
were serious enough to require medevac chopper flights to the nearest
hospital in San Antonio, and painful skin grafts. What had been a pleasant family
vacation turned into a nightmare in seconds because of an un-detected propane
leak.
Personally, I'd cook with pine knots and old cedar fence posts before I'd
have a propane tank on a boat.
Tyson in Galveston
50 F and sunny... humidity 36%....wind NE at 8 mph water temp 61 F
**************
Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/2050
827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
years ago my cousin and her husband, who live in San Angelo, rented a large
houseboat on one of the big man-made lakes in Central Texas...with three
children and childrens' husbands and friends they motored way up the lake, anchored
for the evening and began to prepare supper, frying fish on the propane
kitchen stove...at some point the cook asked someone to close the big sliding doors
up front because bugs were flying in....a few minutes later the entire inside
of the cabin erupted in a flash fire...the initial fire burned itself out
after a few seconds, and the men quickly put out the remaining flames, but the
fire lasted long enough to cause burns on some of the peoples' exposed skin that
were serious enough to require medevac chopper flights to the nearest
hospital in San Antonio, and painful skin grafts. What had been a pleasant family
vacation turned into a nightmare in seconds because of an un-detected propane
leak.
Personally, I'd cook with pine knots and old cedar fence posts before I'd
have a propane tank on a boat.
Tyson in Galveston
50 F and sunny... humidity 36%....wind NE at 8 mph water temp 61 F
**************
Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/2050
827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 6:29 AM, adventures_in_astrophotography
<jon@...> wrote:
almost with daily use, and I am perfectly happy with the arrangement.
As to the safety issue, I simply unscrew the bottle from the stove
after every use. (A few times I did not, I found that it leaked, and
the bottle was empty the next day.) Occasionally, I have fired the
stove up to give a quick blast of heat. If the condensation gets
high, I open the window.
Simple, compact, cheap and effective.
<jon@...> wrote:
> We have experience with propane, but not on boats. Propane deliversI use a 'plain old' propane camp stove on my Micro Navigator with
> instant heat that's easy to regulate. It's available just about
> everywhere. We could use a cheap and effective camping stove
almost with daily use, and I am perfectly happy with the arrangement.
As to the safety issue, I simply unscrew the bottle from the stove
after every use. (A few times I did not, I found that it leaked, and
the bottle was empty the next day.) Occasionally, I have fired the
stove up to give a quick blast of heat. If the condensation gets
high, I open the window.
Simple, compact, cheap and effective.
Funny the differenc in sailing northern waters and southern. I had a
diesel cabin heater and of corse a diesel cook stove would have done
both. Never thought of that. I am finishing up an Elver here in Virginia
amd do sail some in the winter. I hope to oil lamps will provide enough
heat in the cabin.
Doug
DirtSailor wrote:
diesel cabin heater and of corse a diesel cook stove would have done
both. Never thought of that. I am finishing up an Elver here in Virginia
amd do sail some in the winter. I hope to oil lamps will provide enough
heat in the cabin.
Doug
DirtSailor wrote:
>
> Jon,
>
> All of the large boats that I have owned and or operated have had
> diesel stoves, Dickinson brand. Two of them had the pacific model the
> last boat just had the Alaska heater (really missed the the cooking
> capabilities). Yes the diesel stoves do take longer, if your not
> willing to crank up the heat and cook your self out of the cabin. You
> can boil water and do stove top cooking relatively fast though, we
> always had a pot of coffee on top and a kettle of water boiling. Keep
> in mind that we used it for heat too so during the winter the stove
> was going 24-7 (drizzly wet damp cold pacific northwest) and it was
> great for warming up, and keeping the dampness out of the cabin, not
> so great in the summer except on the damp foggy or cold northwesterly
> days. When running all the time the oven was at 325-350, perfect for
> any casserole, bread, pie, comfort food. Baked potato, best put in two
> to three hours in advance. Sure was nice having the smell of food
> cooking on
> a cold damp day when you are 200 miles offshore knowing you're not
> going home for another three or four days. They run on drops of fuel
> so one doesn't need a big reserve. One boat that I ran had a separate
> tank for the stove, it held five gallons, and I would fill it every
> three to four weeks when the stove was being used constantly. Another
> thing to consider is that the Dickinson stoves require an electric fan
> to get them going, and if the fuel is not gravity fed then there is an
> electric fuel pump too. You are supposed to be able to run them
> without the fan, but conditions have to be ideal. The Dickinson's are
> hard to find used, once you have one you don't want to let it go.
> Currently all my boats are too small and we use a Jetboil backpack
> stove and a small portable propane bbq for all our cooking. I grew up
> in an industry where propane wasn't allowed on boats so I try to avoid
> it when possible.
> My current project, an Elver 20 will have a Fatsco Tiny tot wood
> burner for heat, but if I own another 30' plus boat it will for sure
> have a Dickinson with an oven.
>
> Dirtsailor
>
> __________________________________________________________
> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
>http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs<http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
Jon,
I grew up with alcohol stoves. My dad was phobic about gas or propane
because of the explosive potential. A big plus with alcohol is that it
can be extinguished with water. The biggest down side I can think of is
that, under certain lighting conditions, it is nearly impossible to see
an alcohol flame.
V/R
Chris
adventures_in_astrophotography wrote:
I grew up with alcohol stoves. My dad was phobic about gas or propane
because of the explosive potential. A big plus with alcohol is that it
can be extinguished with water. The biggest down side I can think of is
that, under certain lighting conditions, it is nearly impossible to see
an alcohol flame.
V/R
Chris
adventures_in_astrophotography wrote:
> It looks like we're finally getting somewhere with Auriga's design,[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> and I'm in two minds about the fuel for cooking.
>
>
>
My wife and I used propane on our 35 ft live aboard sailboat. We were
really happy with it we liked the oven and it had 3 burners and very
nice. Of course live aboard is a bit different than weekending or
vacations as anyone can put up with anything for short periods of time.
One of the things I have noticed is the happiest couples afloat are
the ones with a good galley. Think about it, we guys want all the neat
stuff on board for our use and we put a lot of effort into that. Then we
have a tendency to expect the wife to go primitive on the things they
are likely to do the most of, cooking and laundry. If you put a diesel
on board for her to cook on you can count on listening to a certain
amount of fussing even though she will likely understand why it,
over a propane stove. There are good reasons to use diesel. If cooking
is hard to do you ought to consider doing your fair share of it.
If the wife wants curtains let her have curtains but you need to be
a big man for that but remember this is a girl man thing. Most people
who fail at sailing do so because the lady of the house is not happy.
Keep her happy!
I like propane but I am a little nutty over the dangers of it. I
have the propane tank outside with an automatic shut off and a manual
one as well. I have a shut off at the stove to. At night when we are
sleeping they are both turned off. If you sleep with propane in the
boat you will not smell it in the morning, unless you go outside and
come back in again. You just can't smell something you have been
smelling all night long.
I also had a vent that went down in the bilge It had a cap on it
that turns to face the wind and with the wind blowing around the cap it
draws a small vacuum. The tiniest vacuum is enough to lift propane gas
out of the bilge. It is only small amount heavier than air so almost
any vacuum will let it rise up in the vent.
This is mostly info for the live aboard and of course what someone
will put up with is a lot dependent on their personality, But why put
up with any thing if it's not a must.
Doug
adventures_in_astrophotography wrote:
really happy with it we liked the oven and it had 3 burners and very
nice. Of course live aboard is a bit different than weekending or
vacations as anyone can put up with anything for short periods of time.
One of the things I have noticed is the happiest couples afloat are
the ones with a good galley. Think about it, we guys want all the neat
stuff on board for our use and we put a lot of effort into that. Then we
have a tendency to expect the wife to go primitive on the things they
are likely to do the most of, cooking and laundry. If you put a diesel
on board for her to cook on you can count on listening to a certain
amount of fussing even though she will likely understand why it,
over a propane stove. There are good reasons to use diesel. If cooking
is hard to do you ought to consider doing your fair share of it.
If the wife wants curtains let her have curtains but you need to be
a big man for that but remember this is a girl man thing. Most people
who fail at sailing do so because the lady of the house is not happy.
Keep her happy!
I like propane but I am a little nutty over the dangers of it. I
have the propane tank outside with an automatic shut off and a manual
one as well. I have a shut off at the stove to. At night when we are
sleeping they are both turned off. If you sleep with propane in the
boat you will not smell it in the morning, unless you go outside and
come back in again. You just can't smell something you have been
smelling all night long.
I also had a vent that went down in the bilge It had a cap on it
that turns to face the wind and with the wind blowing around the cap it
draws a small vacuum. The tiniest vacuum is enough to lift propane gas
out of the bilge. It is only small amount heavier than air so almost
any vacuum will let it rise up in the vent.
This is mostly info for the live aboard and of course what someone
will put up with is a lot dependent on their personality, But why put
up with any thing if it's not a must.
Doug
adventures_in_astrophotography wrote:
>
> It looks like we're finally getting somewhere with Auriga's design,
> and I'm in two minds about the fuel for cooking.
>
> We have experience with propane, but not on boats. Propane delivers
> instant heat that's easy to regulate. It's available just about
> everywhere. We could use a cheap and effective camping stove
> instead of an expensive "marine" stove, particularly if we don't
> want an oven.
>
> We have no experience with diesel in any application at this point.
> We'll have loads of diesel fuel on board for the Deutz. I'm told
> that diesel stoves take a long time to warm up sufficiently for
> cooking. Diesel is safer to have on a boat, especially one with a
> large battery bank, and thus spark potential, at the lowest point in
> the hull. Diesel stoves are very expensive, at least the ones I've
> found.
>
> Anyone care to share their experiences with either fuel? Thanks in
> advance,
>
> Jon Kolb
> www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
>
>
Propane is not as safe as diesel by any stretch of the imagination.
It's heavier than air, any leak will collect in the bilge and is
explosive. Darned near impossible to cause an explosion with diesel.
Unless you plan on cooking in the cockpit and there is no direct path
from the cockpit sole to the cabin, don't even think about using a
camping stove onboard. They were never intended to be gas tight as
gas won't collect very well outside.
Bill H.
It's heavier than air, any leak will collect in the bilge and is
explosive. Darned near impossible to cause an explosion with diesel.
Unless you plan on cooking in the cockpit and there is no direct path
from the cockpit sole to the cabin, don't even think about using a
camping stove onboard. They were never intended to be gas tight as
gas won't collect very well outside.
Bill H.
> I prefer propane over diesel. It's easier to start and cook.bottle
> they are cheap and can be picked up anywhere including used.
> Propane is just as safe as diesel if not more so if you keep the
> OUTSIDE of your hull. Any small leak won't have gas buildup.an
>
> (Modern American bottles are pretty good quality anyway.)
> I have always done the same with the gastank - jerrycan for gas for
> outboard:thoroughly and
> I build a specialized "box" for it on deck; epoxy the wood
> then drill a bunch of good sized holes in it so vapors can escape.design,
> The box serves no real other function than to make it less ugly;
>
> Hajo
>
> On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 9:29 AM, adventures_in_astrophotography <
> jon@...> wrote:
>
> > It looks like we're finally getting somewhere with Auriga's
> > and I'm in two minds about the fuel for cooking.delivers
> >
> > We have experience with propane, but not on boats. Propane
> > instant heat that's easy to regulate. It's available just aboutpoint.
> > everywhere. We could use a cheap and effective camping stove
> > instead of an expensive "marine" stove, particularly if we don't
> > want an oven.
> >
> > We have no experience with diesel in any application at this
> > We'll have loads of diesel fuel on board for the Deutz. I'm toldin
> > that diesel stoves take a long time to warm up sufficiently for
> > cooking. Diesel is safer to have on a boat, especially one with a
> > large battery bank, and thus spark potential, at the lowest point
> > the hull. Diesel stoves are very expensive, at least the ones I've------------------------------
> > found.
> >
> > Anyone care to share their experiences with either fuel? Thanks in
> > advance,
> >
> > Jon Kolb
> > www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> There is a tragic flaw in our precious Constitution, and I don'tknow what
> can be done to fix it. This is it: Only nut cases want to bepresident.
> - Kurt Vonnegut
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
I haven't used diesel for cooking but I really don't like propane in
boats. Another alternative is butane, which unlike propane is
lighter than air and thus will not collect in the bilges. I found a
nice single burner cartidge butane unit for less than $20 that works
very well. You can even find some gimballed single burner butane
units similar to "seaswing" that use the squat little camping butane
cartridges.
Paul H.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "adventures_in_astrophotography"
<jon@...> wrote:
boats. Another alternative is butane, which unlike propane is
lighter than air and thus will not collect in the bilges. I found a
nice single burner cartidge butane unit for less than $20 that works
very well. You can even find some gimballed single burner butane
units similar to "seaswing" that use the squat little camping butane
cartridges.
Paul H.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "adventures_in_astrophotography"
<jon@...> wrote:
>delivers
> It looks like we're finally getting somewhere with Auriga's design,
> and I'm in two minds about the fuel for cooking.
>
> We have experience with propane, but not on boats. Propane
> instant heat that's easy to regulate. It's available just aboutpoint.
> everywhere. We could use a cheap and effective camping stove
> instead of an expensive "marine" stove, particularly if we don't
> want an oven.
>
> We have no experience with diesel in any application at this
> We'll have loads of diesel fuel on board for the Deutz. I'm toldin
> that diesel stoves take a long time to warm up sufficiently for
> cooking. Diesel is safer to have on a boat, especially one with a
> large battery bank, and thus spark potential, at the lowest point
> the hull. Diesel stoves are very expensive, at least the ones I've
> found.
>
> Anyone care to share their experiences with either fuel? Thanks in
> advance,
>
> Jon Kolb
> www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
>
Jon,
All of the large boats that I have owned and or operated have had diesel stoves, Dickinson brand. Two of them had the pacific model the last boat just had the Alaska heater (really missed the the cooking capabilities). Yes the diesel stoves do take longer, if your not willing to crank up the heat and cook your self out of the cabin. You can boil water and do stove top cooking relatively fast though, we always had a pot of coffee on top and a kettle of water boiling. Keep in mind that we used it for heat too so during the winter the stove was going 24-7 (drizzly wet damp cold pacific northwest) and it was great for warming up, and keeping the dampness out of the cabin, not so great in the summer except on the damp foggy or cold northwesterly days. When running all the time the oven was at 325-350, perfect for any casserole, bread, pie, comfort food. Baked potato, best put in two to three hours in advance. Sure was nice having the smell of food cooking on
a cold damp day when you are 200 miles offshore knowing you're not going home for another three or four days. They run on drops of fuel so one doesn't need a big reserve. One boat that I ran had a separate tank for the stove, it held five gallons, and I would fill it every three to four weeks when the stove was being used constantly. Another thing to consider is that the Dickinson stoves require an electric fan to get them going, and if the fuel is not gravity fed then there is an electric fuel pump too. You are supposed to be able to run them without the fan, but conditions have to be ideal. The Dickinson's are hard to find used, once you have one you don't want to let it go. Currently all my boats are too small and we use a Jetboil backpack stove and a small portable propane bbq for all our cooking. I grew up in an industry where propane wasn't allowed on boats so I try to avoid it when possible.
My current project, an Elver 20 will have a Fatsco Tiny tot wood burner for heat, but if I own another 30' plus boat it will for sure have a Dickinson with an oven.
Dirtsailor
____________________________________________________________________________________
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
All of the large boats that I have owned and or operated have had diesel stoves, Dickinson brand. Two of them had the pacific model the last boat just had the Alaska heater (really missed the the cooking capabilities). Yes the diesel stoves do take longer, if your not willing to crank up the heat and cook your self out of the cabin. You can boil water and do stove top cooking relatively fast though, we always had a pot of coffee on top and a kettle of water boiling. Keep in mind that we used it for heat too so during the winter the stove was going 24-7 (drizzly wet damp cold pacific northwest) and it was great for warming up, and keeping the dampness out of the cabin, not so great in the summer except on the damp foggy or cold northwesterly days. When running all the time the oven was at 325-350, perfect for any casserole, bread, pie, comfort food. Baked potato, best put in two to three hours in advance. Sure was nice having the smell of food cooking on
a cold damp day when you are 200 miles offshore knowing you're not going home for another three or four days. They run on drops of fuel so one doesn't need a big reserve. One boat that I ran had a separate tank for the stove, it held five gallons, and I would fill it every three to four weeks when the stove was being used constantly. Another thing to consider is that the Dickinson stoves require an electric fan to get them going, and if the fuel is not gravity fed then there is an electric fuel pump too. You are supposed to be able to run them without the fan, but conditions have to be ideal. The Dickinson's are hard to find used, once you have one you don't want to let it go. Currently all my boats are too small and we use a Jetboil backpack stove and a small portable propane bbq for all our cooking. I grew up in an industry where propane wasn't allowed on boats so I try to avoid it when possible.
My current project, an Elver 20 will have a Fatsco Tiny tot wood burner for heat, but if I own another 30' plus boat it will for sure have a Dickinson with an oven.
Dirtsailor
____________________________________________________________________________________
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I second that. It's really not something you want to smell the first few
days on your boat.
Hajo
days on your boat.
Hajo
On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 9:56 AM, rick barnes <barnesrickw@...> wrote:
> Diesel smells when vaporized for use on a stove.
>
>
> -----
>
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There is a tragic flaw in our precious Constitution, and I don't know what
can be done to fix it. This is it: Only nut cases want to be president.
- Kurt Vonnegut
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I prefer propane over diesel. It's easier to start and cook.
they are cheap and can be picked up anywhere including used.
Propane is just as safe as diesel if not more so if you keep the bottle
OUTSIDE of your hull. Any small leak won't have gas buildup.
(Modern American bottles are pretty good quality anyway.)
I have always done the same with the gastank - jerrycan for gas for an
outboard:
I build a specialized "box" for it on deck; epoxy the wood thoroughly and
then drill a bunch of good sized holes in it so vapors can escape.
The box serves no real other function than to make it less ugly;
Hajo
On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 9:29 AM, adventures_in_astrophotography <
jon@...> wrote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There is a tragic flaw in our precious Constitution, and I don't know what
can be done to fix it. This is it: Only nut cases want to be president.
- Kurt Vonnegut
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
they are cheap and can be picked up anywhere including used.
Propane is just as safe as diesel if not more so if you keep the bottle
OUTSIDE of your hull. Any small leak won't have gas buildup.
(Modern American bottles are pretty good quality anyway.)
I have always done the same with the gastank - jerrycan for gas for an
outboard:
I build a specialized "box" for it on deck; epoxy the wood thoroughly and
then drill a bunch of good sized holes in it so vapors can escape.
The box serves no real other function than to make it less ugly;
Hajo
On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 9:29 AM, adventures_in_astrophotography <
jon@...> wrote:
> It looks like we're finally getting somewhere with Auriga's design,--
> and I'm in two minds about the fuel for cooking.
>
> We have experience with propane, but not on boats. Propane delivers
> instant heat that's easy to regulate. It's available just about
> everywhere. We could use a cheap and effective camping stove
> instead of an expensive "marine" stove, particularly if we don't
> want an oven.
>
> We have no experience with diesel in any application at this point.
> We'll have loads of diesel fuel on board for the Deutz. I'm told
> that diesel stoves take a long time to warm up sufficiently for
> cooking. Diesel is safer to have on a boat, especially one with a
> large battery bank, and thus spark potential, at the lowest point in
> the hull. Diesel stoves are very expensive, at least the ones I've
> found.
>
> Anyone care to share their experiences with either fuel? Thanks in
> advance,
>
> Jon Kolb
> www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
>
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There is a tragic flaw in our precious Constitution, and I don't know what
can be done to fix it. This is it: Only nut cases want to be president.
- Kurt Vonnegut
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Diesel smells when vaporized for use on a stove.
----- Original Message ----
From: adventures_in_astrophotography <jon@...>
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 9:29:50 AM
Subject: [bolger] Diesel or Propane for Cooking?
It looks like we're finally getting somewhere with Auriga's design,
and I'm in two minds about the fuel for cooking.
We have experience with propane, but not on boats. Propane delivers
instant heat that's easy to regulate. It's available just about
everywhere. We could use a cheap and effective camping stove
instead of an expensive "marine" stove, particularly if we don't
want an oven.
We have no experience with diesel in any application at this point.
We'll have loads of diesel fuel on board for the Deutz. I'm told
that diesel stoves take a long time to warm up sufficiently for
cooking. Diesel is safer to have on a boat, especially one with a
large battery bank, and thus spark potential, at the lowest point in
the hull. Diesel stoves are very expensive, at least the ones I've
found.
Anyone care to share their experiences with either fuel? Thanks in
advance,
Jon Kolb
www.kolbsadventures .com/boatbuildin g_index.htm
____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for last minute shopping deals?
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
----- Original Message ----
From: adventures_in_astrophotography <jon@...>
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 9:29:50 AM
Subject: [bolger] Diesel or Propane for Cooking?
It looks like we're finally getting somewhere with Auriga's design,
and I'm in two minds about the fuel for cooking.
We have experience with propane, but not on boats. Propane delivers
instant heat that's easy to regulate. It's available just about
everywhere. We could use a cheap and effective camping stove
instead of an expensive "marine" stove, particularly if we don't
want an oven.
We have no experience with diesel in any application at this point.
We'll have loads of diesel fuel on board for the Deutz. I'm told
that diesel stoves take a long time to warm up sufficiently for
cooking. Diesel is safer to have on a boat, especially one with a
large battery bank, and thus spark potential, at the lowest point in
the hull. Diesel stoves are very expensive, at least the ones I've
found.
Anyone care to share their experiences with either fuel? Thanks in
advance,
Jon Kolb
www.kolbsadventures .com/boatbuildin g_index.htm
____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for last minute shopping deals?
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
It looks like we're finally getting somewhere with Auriga's design,
and I'm in two minds about the fuel for cooking.
We have experience with propane, but not on boats. Propane delivers
instant heat that's easy to regulate. It's available just about
everywhere. We could use a cheap and effective camping stove
instead of an expensive "marine" stove, particularly if we don't
want an oven.
We have no experience with diesel in any application at this point.
We'll have loads of diesel fuel on board for the Deutz. I'm told
that diesel stoves take a long time to warm up sufficiently for
cooking. Diesel is safer to have on a boat, especially one with a
large battery bank, and thus spark potential, at the lowest point in
the hull. Diesel stoves are very expensive, at least the ones I've
found.
Anyone care to share their experiences with either fuel? Thanks in
advance,
Jon Kolb
www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
and I'm in two minds about the fuel for cooking.
We have experience with propane, but not on boats. Propane delivers
instant heat that's easy to regulate. It's available just about
everywhere. We could use a cheap and effective camping stove
instead of an expensive "marine" stove, particularly if we don't
want an oven.
We have no experience with diesel in any application at this point.
We'll have loads of diesel fuel on board for the Deutz. I'm told
that diesel stoves take a long time to warm up sufficiently for
cooking. Diesel is safer to have on a boat, especially one with a
large battery bank, and thus spark potential, at the lowest point in
the hull. Diesel stoves are very expensive, at least the ones I've
found.
Anyone care to share their experiences with either fuel? Thanks in
advance,
Jon Kolb
www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm