Re: [bolger] Re: Old Shoe-type MICRO ? Plus MICRO Bow-fillets and tabernacle
Thanks for your interest.
The work was done in 2004, then covered in MAIB Sept. 1, 2004 Vol. 22, No 8 p.28-29. We referred to it as 'MICRO-2'.
To the plans for Design #422 MICRO across three additional sheets were added modifications doable on any existing MICRO hull:
- shorter mainmast - 18'4" versus 23' -
- battened gaff main-sail for an overall sail-area of 210 versus 176, plus 65 sq. foot reaching spinnaker
- all set in a bow-tabernacle, bringing her hull-length to just over 16 feet,
- gaff mizzen on 2-foot shorter mizzen-mast
- moderate-angle fillets under her bow.
As stated in the MAIB piece in 2004, these three upgrade sheets are $75.
The complete plans-package has grown over the decades from 6 to 11 sheets and is available for $250 to build one boat.
Susanne Altenburger, PB&F
The work was done in 2004, then covered in MAIB Sept. 1, 2004 Vol. 22, No 8 p.28-29. We referred to it as 'MICRO-2'.
To the plans for Design #422 MICRO across three additional sheets were added modifications doable on any existing MICRO hull:
- shorter mainmast - 18'4" versus 23' -
- battened gaff main-sail for an overall sail-area of 210 versus 176, plus 65 sq. foot reaching spinnaker
- all set in a bow-tabernacle, bringing her hull-length to just over 16 feet,
- gaff mizzen on 2-foot shorter mizzen-mast
- moderate-angle fillets under her bow.
As stated in the MAIB piece in 2004, these three upgrade sheets are $75.
The complete plans-package has grown over the decades from 6 to 11 sheets and is available for $250 to build one boat.
Susanne Altenburger, PB&F
----- Original Message -----From:Dave GentrySent:Wednesday, September 05, 2012 12:59 PMSubject:[bolger] Re: Old Shoe-type MICRO ?
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Mark Albanese <marka97203@...> wrote:
>
> I don't believe that is well-known. Is it possible to purchase just
> this sheet?
> Mark
> >
> > Myles,
> > in case your experience amongst waves would be alleviated by
> > this, MICRO has had a set of (addable) Vee-Nose fillets forward for
> > a good number of years now.
> >
>
Yes, first I've heard of it, as well. Perhaps it's on the navigator plans . . . I haven't really studied them.
Anyway, they sound like a worthy addition. If I still had the Micro I built, I'd likely want them.
Dave
Bruce,
It is not really a cuddy, just enough roof to get out one person out of the wind and rain when you sit sideways. That plus a slightly raised self-draining sole make it a good northwest boat. The reports are that SCAMP has “sneaky speed”. It did well in the Port Townsend sail-by at the end of the show and in the Everglades Challenge (until they sailed onto a mudflat). I talked with John Welsford at the show about modifications. He said “don’t touch the hull”. He said he did more calculations for the SCAMP hull than for his other boats. I suspect that flat bottom also helps with the old guy and/or safety boat score.
MylesJ
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Mark Albanese <marka97203@...> wrote:
Anyway, they sound like a worthy addition. If I still had the Micro I built, I'd likely want them.
Dave
>Yes, first I've heard of it, as well. Perhaps it's on the navigator plans . . . I haven't really studied them.
> I don't believe that is well-known. Is it possible to purchase just
> this sheet?
> Mark
> >
> > Myles,
> > in case your experience amongst waves would be alleviated by
> > this, MICRO has had a set of (addable) Vee-Nose fillets forward for
> > a good number of years now.
> >
>
Anyway, they sound like a worthy addition. If I still had the Micro I built, I'd likely want them.
Dave
I don't believe that is well-known. Is it possible to purchase just this sheet?
Mark
Myles,
in case your experience amongst waves would be alleviated by this, MICRO has had a set of (addable) Vee-Nose fillets forward for a good number of years now.
Have never seen an OLD SHOE nor a MICRO in any of the "raid type" challenges that have become very popular in the past few years. Most of course require beach launching and rowing or paddling ability in addition to sailing and sometimes even portaging.
"Horses for courses" is an expression the designer of SCAMP sometimes uses.
Nels
--- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "c.ruzer" <c.ruzer@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> The comparison is one of apples and oranges. If your talking about comparing Scamp with a seaworthy hypothetical open Micro then it is maybe between citrus fruit only, but still a flawed comparison as might be one comparing "cumquat" and "grapefruit". Micro is twice the boat. period.
The comparison is one of apples and oranges. If your talking about comparing Scamp with a seaworthy hypothetical open Micro then it is maybe between citrus fruit only, but still a flawed comparison as might be one comparing "cumquat" and "grapefruit". Micro is twice the boat. period.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "MylesJ. Swift" <mswift@...> wrote:
>
> c.ruzer says "I don't see how 12ft x 5ft Scamp covers Micro/open-Micro."
> It depends on your needs. Brian and I are both Micro owners looking
> for something that is a better fit for old guys.
Now, Brian wrote, "..see if we'd prefer to change to a smaller, lighter sail and oar type of craft." There's plenty of those, but it is a case of "Smaller", "lighter", "oar" = "cumquat".
MICRO was designed to meet a similar request "for old guys" as made by Elrow la Rowe. It has been found to more than meet the request many times over. But it is Micro, a very capable, salient-keeled, cabined, cruising craft. People have expressed issues about mast raising - so there's a tabernacle redesign option - in the hypothetical open Micro rigging/striking is even less of an issue - and if not swapping over an existing Micro sail rig then rigging options are wide open..
> If you are not camp-cruising much anymore then SCAMP can cover Micro nicely.
No, Micro is twice the boat. But if you have different and reduced requirements then a different and ruduced boat ought meet them.
> You still have a nice solo camper on the sole.
Many boats offer this. An Open Micro would offer this - and to how many crew?
> Dropping off a wave or big chop in high wind is a shuddering
> experience with Micro. A couple of hours of that and my back
> complains for a few days. Not every aspect of a big flat bottom is
> a winner.
Get used to "slow".
> Seating and back support is better on SCAMP.
Compared to what? The room in an open Micro would offer various options of more comfortable seating - and to how many crew?
> Spars weigh nothing compared to the Micro mainmast.
Spar weight would be much less of an isssue in open Micro, and then there may be optional sail plans...
> A 2 to 3 horse motor is enough for open water in SCAMP versus 5-8
> HP for Micro.
OPEN MICRO would have less windage than Micro or even Scamp unless it unecessarily copied the DCA Roamer (Rebel, Hartley 12, Seaboots, etc, etc...) type of forward cuddy design for high placed bouyancy as was done on Scamp. You only need the 5-8HP on Micro to go directly up wind in situations of very strong wind/current, any other time it is not much above idle. My Micro has a 4HP 2-stroke and has managed whilst heavily laden against combined 25kts+ and strong tidal current (3 - 5kts?). I'd like to see the SCAMP do that with its windage and only 2 - 3 HP!
Further, if now our comparison is not jumbling up only "sail and oar type of craft" - just how poorly is that motor and fuel mounted on the SCAMP?
> The closest Bolger to SCAMP is the Japanese beach cruiser.
BeachCat? it too is larger???
> All those differences are good features.
Maybe, maybe not. Apples and oranges...
> Watching the capsize tests is what sold me on SCAMP. Standing on
> the lee rail in strong wind is not enough to turn turtle. You have
> to haul in the main AND stand on the rail for that.
Try Micro or Old Shoe, no doubt unballasted Beach Cat, or many other boats...
> SCAMP was designed for Small Craft Advisor. They requested Mr.
> Welsford design the safest small sailboat. First model was 10 foot
> and decided to be too small. The current model is just under 12
> foot.
SCA had their reasons... It is not the safest small sailboat.
> Go to Small Craft advisor and run the seaworthiness test on the
> different models you are considering. Micro scores well, SCAMP
> scores well, open boats don't score as well. It is a fair test that
> provides useful comparisons.
Scamp is not an "open" boat - ie she's part decked but with crew accomodation being open not cabined - as would be an open Micro. Scoring both such open boats then has open Micro at 151 and Scamp at 120. That difference is conservative.
>http://smallcraftadvisor.com/sca-seaworthiness-test
> MylesJ
What it like to sail an Old Shoe? Since I own one, guess I can offer a report on that. First thoughts that come to mind are a full keel cruising sailboat in a 12ft package. Boat is easy on the helm.. not to light... but 'easy'.... no surprizes. She has a nice motion, but like the Micro, big waves can stop her going to weather. She stays on her feet, no matter where you sit.. no tenderness... nice solid feel. Boat flys off the wind (tempted to fly a chute and see what happens). She will point, but does suffer from leeway with that shallow keel.. she really could use lee rails or a centerboard. When coming about, she does not spin on her keel... she "wears" around and as a result she falls off to recover way (course, that may be my sailing technique causing that)..she is indeed an "armchair" sailboat.. with her high freeboard and that fact that you sit down in her, you have a natural back rest and tons of room in that huge cockpit... pure bless actually.. she can put you to sleep on a sunny day. No winches to fuss with, no heavy loads, no boom to whack your head... tacking is simply "helm over" and away you go. Because of her large cockpit size, she is a social boat.. fun to take friends on a quiet spin. She is not a high performance boat.. so forget it, if that is what you are looking for.. The boat will surprize you with bursts of speed and is a delight to others watching you... she does draw attention. Just be prepared to take your time and have fun!
Regards,
Dennis
Regards,
Dennis
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, John Boy <t1ro2003@...> wrote:
>
> Bruce said about the SCAMP, "(Making it pretty, but not as hydrodynamic.)."
>
> That boat IS a chick magnet.  Mike and I sailed past some weekend racers during the FL120, you know the ones with the $10k plus suit of kevlar sails on a J something, the bikini clad rail meat hollered out, "Love your cute boat!"  I was thinking, "Love your..." anyway.  It attracted women in the hotel parking lot and the burger joint too.  Mike says it even attracts bikers. Don't know why about the bikers.
>
>
> BTW Somebody started this thread comparing an Old Shoe and a SCAMP. Â I generously provided my take on the SCAMP (I really can't shut up). Â How about a sailing report on the Old Shoe? Â I think it would be pretty functional and a good boat.
> Just saying,
> John Boy
>
> Â
>
>
> I have a blog! Âhttp://toon2sailor.blogspot.com/
>
> âSeaward ho! Hang the treasure! It's the glory of the sea that has turned my head.âÂ
>
> Robert Louis Stevenson, Treasure Island
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: BruceHallman <hallman@...>
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, September 4, 2012 2:25 PM
> Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Old Shoe-type MICRO ?
>
> > c.ruzer says âI don't see how 12ft x 5ft Scamp covers Micro/open-Micro.â
> >
> >
> >
>
> I did a isometric model of SCAMP and some of my observations included
> that it seems odd to have a boat with a single flat plate bottom and
> developed six panel topsides. To my sense of logic it seem more
> sensible to put investment in the curvature down where the water
> "sees" it. But SCAMP puts the curvature investment up where the human
> eye's see it. Â Â Also,
> that design in only 12ft attempts to compromise by having both a cuddy
> and a cockpit. I haven't sailed a SCAMP full size, but it makes me
> curious whether the cuddy feels cramped or the cockpit feels small; or
> both. That said, I bet that SCAMP is a fun little boat to build and
> to sail.
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:Âbolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> Â Âhttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "prairiedog2332" <arvent@...> wrote:
And good ultimate stability too.
>Right on.
> Couple more thoughts...
And good ultimate stability too.
Couple more thoughts...
Two different design goals.
MICRO/OLD SHOE designed for a larger senior citizen (Elrow LaRowe). Simple nail and glue hard chine "Instant Boat" construction with lumber yard wood, arm chair-like relaxed sailing and firm initial stability with motor-sailing capability.
SCAMP - for more dinghy-like challenges with a hard dodger - yet simple sail plan. SCA has arranged building courses and a pre-cut kit option. A crew of two can sail it with enough space in the bow for the off-watch member to curl up under the dodger and catch some sleep - proven in the Everglades Challenge.
Both goals I feel met their purpose. Looks are in the eye of the beholder in my view.
Nels
--- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "John Trussell" <jtrussell2@...> wrote:
>
> A couple of thoughts...
>
> First, the "cuddy" on Scamp is really a hard dodger. It provides significant
> shelter from wind and spray. Someone who is younger and more limber than I
> am could, conceivably, sit in it, but that is not what it is for.
>
> Second, the "curvature investment" above the bottom panel is the source of
> Scamp's rather remarkable reserve stability. The video of the capsize test
> suggests that reserve stability is a good thing.
>
> I vaguely recall a PCB 'cartoon' of an enlarged Nymph which included
> curvature investment in the top sides and looked a little like a Scamp. My
> recollection is that he thought it was too much investment for too little
> boat.
>
Bruce said about the SCAMP, "(Making it pretty, but not as hydrodynamic.)."
That boat IS a chick magnet. Mike and I sailed past some weekend racers during the FL120, you know the ones with the $10k plus suit of kevlar sails on a J something, the bikini clad rail meat hollered out, "Love your cute boat!" I was thinking, "Love your..." anyway. It attracted women in the hotel parking lot and the
burger joint too. Mike says it even attracts bikers. Don't know why about the bikers.
BTW Somebody started this thread comparing an Old Shoe and a SCAMP. I generously provided my take on the SCAMP (I really can't shut up). How about a sailing report on the Old Shoe? I think it would be pretty functional and a good boat.
Just saying,
John Boy
I have a
blog! http://toon2sailor.blogspot.com/
“Seaward ho! Hang the treasure! It's the glory of the sea that has turned my head.”
Robert Louis Stevenson,Treasure Island
From:BruceHallman <hallman@...>
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent:Tuesday, September 4, 2012 2:25 PM
Subject:Re: [bolger] Re: Old Shoe-type MICRO ?
> c.ruzer says “I don't see how 12ft x 5ft Scamp covers Micro/open-Micro.”I did a isometric model of SCAMP and some of my observations included
>
>
>
that it seems odd to have a boat with a single flat plate bottom and
developed six panel topsides. To my sense of logic it seem more
sensible to put investment in the curvature down where the water
"sees" it. But SCAMP puts the curvature investment up where the human
eye's see it. Also,
that design in only 12ft attempts to compromise by having both a cuddy
and a cockpit. I haven't sailed a SCAMP full size, but it makes me
curious whether the cuddy feels cramped or the cockpit feels small; or
both. That said, I bet that SCAMP is a fun little boat to build and
to sail.
------------------------------------
Bolger rules!!!
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A couple of thoughts...
First, the "cuddy" on Scamp is really a hard dodger. It provides significant
shelter from wind and spray. Someone who is younger and more limber than I
am could, conceivably, sit in it, but that is not what it is for.
Second, the "curvature investment" above the bottom panel is the source of
Scamp's rather remarkable reserve stability. The video of the capsize test
suggests that reserve stability is a good thing.
I vaguely recall a PCB 'cartoon' of an enlarged Nymph which included
curvature investment in the top sides and looked a little like a Scamp. My
recollection is that he thought it was too much investment for too little
boat.
-----Original Message-----
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
BruceHallman
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2012 3:25 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Old Shoe-type MICRO ?
that it seems odd to have a boat with a single flat plate bottom and
developed six panel topsides. To my sense of logic it seem more
sensible to put investment in the curvature down where the water
"sees" it. But SCAMP puts the curvature investment up where the human
eye's see it. (Making it pretty, but not as hydrodynamic.) Also,
that design in only 12ft attempts to compromise by having both a cuddy
and a cockpit. I haven't sailed a SCAMP full size, but it makes me
curious whether the cuddy feels cramped or the cockpit feels small; or
both. That said, I bet that SCAMP is a fun little boat to build and
to sail.
------------------------------------
Bolger rules!!!
- NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo!
Groups Links
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2437/5248 - Release Date: 09/04/12
First, the "cuddy" on Scamp is really a hard dodger. It provides significant
shelter from wind and spray. Someone who is younger and more limber than I
am could, conceivably, sit in it, but that is not what it is for.
Second, the "curvature investment" above the bottom panel is the source of
Scamp's rather remarkable reserve stability. The video of the capsize test
suggests that reserve stability is a good thing.
I vaguely recall a PCB 'cartoon' of an enlarged Nymph which included
curvature investment in the top sides and looked a little like a Scamp. My
recollection is that he thought it was too much investment for too little
boat.
-----Original Message-----
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
BruceHallman
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2012 3:25 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Old Shoe-type MICRO ?
> c.ruzer says "I don't see how 12ft x 5ft Scamp covers Micro/open-Micro."I did a isometric model of SCAMP and some of my observations included
>
>
>
that it seems odd to have a boat with a single flat plate bottom and
developed six panel topsides. To my sense of logic it seem more
sensible to put investment in the curvature down where the water
"sees" it. But SCAMP puts the curvature investment up where the human
eye's see it. (Making it pretty, but not as hydrodynamic.) Also,
that design in only 12ft attempts to compromise by having both a cuddy
and a cockpit. I haven't sailed a SCAMP full size, but it makes me
curious whether the cuddy feels cramped or the cockpit feels small; or
both. That said, I bet that SCAMP is a fun little boat to build and
to sail.
------------------------------------
Bolger rules!!!
- NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo!
Groups Links
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2437/5248 - Release Date: 09/04/12
There's quite a bit of commentary over on the
Duckworks group (dwforum@yahoogroups.com).
V/R
Chris
V/R
Chris
On 9/4/2012 3:25 PM, BruceHallman
wrote:
c.ruzer says “I don't see how 12ft x 5ft Scamp covers Micro/open-Micro.”I did a isometric model of SCAMP and some of my observations included that it seems odd to have a boat with a single flat plate bottom and developed six panel topsides. To my sense of logic it seem more sensible to put investment in the curvature down where the water "sees" it. But SCAMP puts the curvature investment up where the human eye's see it. (Making it pretty, but not as hydrodynamic.) Also, that design in only 12ft attempts to compromise by having both a cuddy and a cockpit. I haven't sailed a SCAMP full size, but it makes me curious whether the cuddy feels cramped or the cockpit feels small; or both. That said, I bet that SCAMP is a fun little boat to build and to sail.
> c.ruzer says “I don't see how 12ft x 5ft Scamp covers Micro/open-Micro.”I did a isometric model of SCAMP and some of my observations included
>
>
>
that it seems odd to have a boat with a single flat plate bottom and
developed six panel topsides. To my sense of logic it seem more
sensible to put investment in the curvature down where the water
"sees" it. But SCAMP puts the curvature investment up where the human
eye's see it. (Making it pretty, but not as hydrodynamic.) Also,
that design in only 12ft attempts to compromise by having both a cuddy
and a cockpit. I haven't sailed a SCAMP full size, but it makes me
curious whether the cuddy feels cramped or the cockpit feels small; or
both. That said, I bet that SCAMP is a fun little boat to build and
to sail.
Myles,
in case your experience amongst waves would be alleviated by this, MICRO has had a set of (addable) Vee-Nose fillets forward for a good number of years now.
Susanne Altenburger, PB&F
in case your experience amongst waves would be alleviated by this, MICRO has had a set of (addable) Vee-Nose fillets forward for a good number of years now.
Susanne Altenburger, PB&F
----- Original Message -----From:MylesJ. SwiftSent:Tuesday, September 04, 2012 3:06 PMSubject:[bolger] Re: Old Shoe-type MICRO ?c.ruzer says I don't see how 12ft x 5ft Scamp covers Micro/open-Micro.
It depends on your needs. Brian and I are both Micro owners looking for something that is a better fit for old guys. If you are not camp-cruising much anymore then SCAMP can cover Micro nicely. You still have a nice solo camper on the sole. Dropping off a wave or big chop in high wind is a shuddering experience with Micro. A couple of hours of that and my back complains for a few days. Not every aspect of a big flat bottom is a winner. Seating and back support is better on SCAMP. Spars weigh nothing compared to the Micro mainmast. A 2 to 3 horse motor is enough for open water in SCAMP versus 5-8 HP for Micro. The closest Bolger to SCAMP is the Japanese beach cruiser.
All those differences are good features. Watching the capsize tests is what sold me on SCAMP. Standing on the lee rail in strong wind is not enough to turn turtle. You have to haul in the main AND stand on the rail for that. SCAMP was designed for Small Craft Advisor. They requested Mr. Welsford design the safest small sailboat. First model was 10 foot and decided to be too small. The current model is just under 12 foot.
Go to Small Craft advisor and run the seaworthiness test on the different models you are considering. Micro scores well, SCAMP scores well, open boats dont score as well. It is a fair test that provides useful comparisons.
http://smallcraftadvisor.com/sca-seaworthiness-test
MylesJ
c.ruzer says “I don't see how 12ft x 5ft Scamp covers Micro/open-Micro.”
It depends on your needs. Brian and I are both Micro owners looking for something that is a better fit for old guys. If you are not camp-cruising much anymore then SCAMP can cover Micro nicely. You still have a nice solo camper on the sole. Dropping off a wave or big chop in high wind is a shuddering experience with Micro. A couple of hours of that and my back complains for a few days. Not every aspect of a big flat bottom is a winner. Seating and back support is better on SCAMP. Spars weigh nothing compared to the Micro mainmast. A 2 to 3 horse motor is enough for open water in SCAMP versus 5-8 HP for Micro. The closest Bolger to SCAMP is the Japanese beach cruiser.
All those differences are good features. Watching the capsize tests is what sold me on SCAMP. Standing on the lee rail in strong wind is not enough to turn turtle. You have to haul in the main AND stand on the rail for that. SCAMP was designed for Small Craft Advisor. They requested Mr. Welsford design the safest small sailboat. First model was 10 foot and decided to be too small. The current model is just under 12 foot.
Go to Small Craft advisor and run the seaworthiness test on the different models you are considering. Micro scores well, SCAMP scores well, open boats don’t score as well. It is a fair test that provides useful comparisons.
http://smallcraftadvisor.com/sca-seaworthiness-test
MylesJ
Now I know this is the Bolger group but I was lucky to be able to crew with Mike Monies on the Red Scamp this past FL120. I haven't been able to sail an Old Shoe yet so I can't really compare the two. But I can tell you about the Scamp. At 11'11" LOA you know it's not a rocket ship but it'll surprise you, it's a little faster than you think it should be. In a moderate breeze, it'll make 4.5 to 5 knots. It has a centerboard and with board up it drafts 8". It has water ballast but Mike replaced it with two series 31 batteries for a 60# trolling motor. He widened the seats over the stock design and the benches are long enough for my 6'2" frame to sleep comfortably (by the third night I was tired of pitching my tent). The winds varied between bob-n-bake and a fresh breeze so we never
reefed. I think we loosed the sheet once to spill a gust over four days. I tacked past the Pensacola Pass on a falling tide with a 15-20 knot head wind. It created a pretty steep 5 foot chop that I tacked right through without any problem. In that situation we were tacking around 100 degrees. The Scamp has a safe feel to it.
Tell me how an Old Shoe compares,
John Boy
I have a blog! http://toon2sailor.blogspot.com/
“Seaward ho! Hang the treasure! It's the glory of the sea that has turned my head.”
Robert Louis Stevenson,Treasure Island
From:John Trussell <jtrussell2@...>
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent:Sunday, September 2, 2012 9:20 AM
Subject:RE: [bolger] Re: Old Shoe-type MICRO ?
I think that Scamp is more analogous to
Old Shoe. Both are short, wide boats with considerable ballast/displacement. My
guess is that Old Shoe has more initial stability and less ultimate stability
than Scamp. Both offer comfortable places for the crew to sit in large
cockpits. Arguably, Scamp is a little prettier than Old Shoe (though neither
will ever qualify as a beauty) and Old Shoe is probably quicker to build
(though the lead keel adds challenge). I’m an old man and I need a
comfortable cockpit and an easily managed daysailor that will take care of me
without requiring agility or strength. I purchased and studied both sets of
plans and I am currently building a Scamp. But it was a close, close call.
JohnT
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto: bolger@yahoogroups.com ]On Behalf Ofc.ruzer
Sent:Saturday, September 01, 2012 8:27 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject:[bolger] Re: Old Shoe-type MICRO ?
Sent:Saturday, September 01, 2012 8:27 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject:[bolger] Re: Old Shoe-type MICRO ?
I don't see how 12ft x 5ft Scamp covers Micro/open-Micro. It covers the 14ft x 7ft Seaboots which goes closer to the 15ft x 6ft Micro. ..You can also place an influential amount of ballast inside 12ft x 5ft Japanese Beach Cruiser, maybe water even.
Compare Seaboots by Tom Dunderdale, known here for his Light Dory Type V builds and Archaeopterix inspired Moth scows.
http://www.campionboats.co.uk/design_proposal.html
http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jw/scamp/index.htm
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Brian" <brianincorv@...> wrote:
> Yes, I know that there's a tabernacle option on the Micro. It's a questionof whether it's worth it to me to make major mods on my old Micro, or go in another direction. SCAMP is a very interesting design that I have been following for some time. At the moment, we're going to sail the Micro a few more times and then see if we'd prefer to change to a smaller, lighter sail and oar type of craft.
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com,"MylesJ. Swift" <mswift@> wrote:
> > Have you seen the updates for Micro? Converts to a mast in tabernacle
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG -www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2437/5242 - Release Date: 09/02/12
Checked by AVG -www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2437/5242 - Release Date: 09/02/12
I think that Scamp is more analogous to Old Shoe. Both are short, wide boats with considerable ballast/displacement. My guess is that Old Shoe has more initial stability and less ultimate stability than Scamp. Both offer comfortable places for the crew to sit in large cockpits. Arguably, Scamp is a little prettier than Old Shoe (though neither will ever qualify as a beauty) and Old Shoe is probably quicker to build (though the lead keel adds challenge). I’m an old man and I need a comfortable cockpit and an easily managed daysailor that will take care of me without requiring agility or strength. I purchased and studied both sets of plans and I am currently building a Scamp. But it was a close, close call.
JohnT
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:
bolger@yahoogroups.com ]On Behalf Ofc.ruzer
Sent:Saturday, September 01, 2012
8:27 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject:[bolger] Re: Old
Shoe-type MICRO ?
I don't see how 12ft x 5ft Scamp covers Micro/open-Micro. It covers the 14ft x
7ft Seaboots which goes closer to the 15ft x 6ft Micro. ..You can also place an
influential amount of ballast inside 12ft x 5ft Japanese Beach Cruiser, maybe
water even.
Compare Seaboots by Tom Dunderdale, known here for his Light Dory Type V builds
and Archaeopterix inspired Moth scows.
http://www.campionboats.co.uk/design_proposal.html
http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jw/scamp/index.htm
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com,
"Brian" <brianincorv@...> wrote:
> Yes, I know that there's a tabernacle option on the Micro. It's a questionof whether it's worth it to me to make major mods on my old Micro, or go in another direction. SCAMP is a very interesting design that I have been following for some time. At the moment, we're going to sail the Micro a few more times and then see if we'd prefer to change to a smaller, lighter sail and oar type of craft.
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com,"MylesJ. Swift" <mswift@> wrote:
> > Have you seen the updates for Micro? Converts to a mast in tabernacle
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG -www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2437/5242 - Release Date: 09/02/12
I don't see how 12ft x 5ft Scamp covers Micro/open-Micro. It covers the 14ft x 7ft Seaboots which goes closer to the 15ft x 6ft Micro. ..You can also place an influential amount of ballast inside 12ft x 5ft Japanese Beach Cruiser, maybe water even.
Compare Seaboots by Tom Dunderdale, known here for his Light Dory Type V builds and Archaeopterix inspired Moth scows.
http://www.campionboats.co.uk/design_proposal.html
http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jw/scamp/index.htm
Compare Seaboots by Tom Dunderdale, known here for his Light Dory Type V builds and Archaeopterix inspired Moth scows.
http://www.campionboats.co.uk/design_proposal.html
http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jw/scamp/index.htm
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Brian" <brianincorv@...> wrote:
> Yes, I know that there's a tabernacle option on the Micro. It's a question of whether it's worth it to me to make major mods on my old Micro, or go in another direction. SCAMP is a very interesting design that I have been following for some time. At the moment, we're going to sail the Micro a few more times and then see if we'd prefer to change to a smaller, lighter sail and oar type of craft.
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "MylesJ. Swift" <mswift@> wrote:
> > Have you seen the updates for Micro? Converts to a mast in tabernacle
Sounds like the Oldshoe might be a nice option for you. Its only 12ft, but gives you the most boat for the bang. I have thought about converting to a tabernacle to help this old body deal with the main mast... although the Shoe's mast is only 19ft and in Spruce, is fairly light to handle. Fortunately, Bolger designs offer many options.
Best,
Dennis
Best,
Dennis
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Brian" <brianincorv@...> wrote:
>
> Yes, I know that there's a tabernacle option on the Micro. It's a question of whether it's worth it to me to make major mods on my old Micro, or go in another direction. SCAMP is a very interesting design that I have been following for some time. At the moment, we're going to sail the Micro a few more times and then see if we'd prefer to change to a smaller, lighter sail and oar type of craft.
>
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "MylesJ. Swift" <mswift@> wrote:
> >
> > Brian,
> >
> >
> >
> > Have you seen the updates for Micro? Converts to a mast in tabernacle and
> > adds another hatch in front of the existing one. No need to go on the cabin
> > roof ever again and anchor handling gets done standing in the new hatch.
> >
> >
> >
> > I've got the same problems: bad back, bad joints, and a 5'3" wife. I have
> > decided in the long run that SCAMP is the best boat for the described
> > conditions, with the Mike Monies modification that lets you tilt the much
> > smaller SCAMP mast into place. I figure it is the best boat to keep me on
> > the water safely for many years. It is a more comfortable ride than Micro.
> > Go to YouTube and find the SCAMP capsize tests and see what you think.
> >
> >
> >
> > MylesJ
> >
>
Yes, I know that there's a tabernacle option on the Micro. It's a question of whether it's worth it to me to make major mods on my old Micro, or go in another direction. SCAMP is a very interesting design that I have been following for some time. At the moment, we're going to sail the Micro a few more times and then see if we'd prefer to change to a smaller, lighter sail and oar type of craft.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "MylesJ. Swift" <mswift@...> wrote:
>
> Brian,
>
>
>
> Have you seen the updates for Micro? Converts to a mast in tabernacle and
> adds another hatch in front of the existing one. No need to go on the cabin
> roof ever again and anchor handling gets done standing in the new hatch.
>
>
>
> I've got the same problems: bad back, bad joints, and a 5'3" wife. I have
> decided in the long run that SCAMP is the best boat for the described
> conditions, with the Mike Monies modification that lets you tilt the much
> smaller SCAMP mast into place. I figure it is the best boat to keep me on
> the water safely for many years. It is a more comfortable ride than Micro.
> Go to YouTube and find the SCAMP capsize tests and see what you think.
>
>
>
> MylesJ
>
Brian,
Have you seen the updates for Micro? Converts to a mast in tabernacle and adds another hatch in front of the existing one. No need to go on the cabin roof ever again and anchor handling gets done standing in the new hatch.
I’ve got the same problems: bad back, bad joints, and a 5’3” wife. I have decided in the long run that SCAMP is the best boat for the described conditions, with the Mike Monies modification that lets you tilt the much smaller SCAMP mast into place. I figure it is the best boat to keep me on the water safely for many years. It is a more comfortable ride than Micro. Go to YouTube and find the SCAMP capsize tests and see what you think.
MylesJ
We did add a tabernacle-option to MICRO a good
while back. And the Chinese Gaff from the NAVIGATOR-version would
work.
Susanne Altenburger, PB&F
Susanne Altenburger, PB&F
----- Original Message -----From:dennislancaster789Sent:Friday, August 31, 2012 3:28 PMSubject:[bolger] Re: Old Shoe-type MICRO ?I could easily see a Micro or Long Micro configured like the Shoe, small locker up forward. I would think on the Micro, 6 (3 adults on a side) would be very comfortable. 8 is alot of people. Also, how about a tabernacle mast setup and junk rig on the main? There is a draw for a comfortable day sailor.
regards,
Dennis
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "MylesJ. Swift" <mswift@...> wrote:
>
> Joe T asks - But would it sail with the weight?
>
> With 8 people aboard Micro settles down. The front and rear wells flood
> some. The water line increases. As long as there is reasonable wind, you
> don't notice the difference. Without the wells flooding it would probably
> get a little corky. I've done that with a mix of people. Whether you could
> do that with 8 Coots is a different question.
>
>
>
> MylesJ
>
I could easily see a Micro or Long Micro configured like the Shoe, small locker up forward. I would think on the Micro, 6 (3 adults on a side) would be very comfortable. 8 is alot of people. Also, how about a tabernacle mast setup and junk rig on the main? There is a draw for a comfortable day sailor.
regards,
Dennis
regards,
Dennis
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "MylesJ. Swift" <mswift@...> wrote:
>
> Joe T asks - But would it sail with the weight?
>
> With 8 people aboard Micro settles down. The front and rear wells flood
> some. The water line increases. As long as there is reasonable wind, you
> don't notice the difference. Without the wells flooding it would probably
> get a little corky. I've done that with a mix of people. Whether you could
> do that with 8 Coots is a different question.
>
>
>
> MylesJ
>
Well, there is the LONG MICRO to pursue that layout
upon...
Susanne Altenburger, PB&F
Susanne Altenburger, PB&F
----- Original Message -----From:MylesJ. SwiftSent:Friday, August 31, 2012 1:05 PMSubject:[bolger] Re: Old Shoe-type MICRO ?Joe T asks -But would it sail with the weight?
With 8 people aboard Micro settles down. The front and rear wells flood some. The water line increases. As long as there is reasonable wind, you dont notice the difference. Without the wells flooding it would probably get a little corky. Ive done that with a mix of people. Whether you could do that with 8 Coots is a different question.MylesJ
Joe T asks -But would it sail with the weight?
With 8 people aboard Micro settles down. The front and rear wells flood some. The water line increases. As long as there is reasonable wind, you don’t notice the difference. Without the wells flooding it would probably get a little corky. I’ve done that with a mix of people. Whether you could do that with 8 Coots is a different question.
MylesJ
I have an old Micro that I have finally gotten back in the water. Funny enough, a couple of months ago, I was looking at it in the shop and thought exactly the same thing: what kind of an open daysailor would this make? Not everybody's cup of tea, but I think it would beat the heck out of a few other choices. I was originally looking for a daysailor that could also camp-cruise, but ended up with the Micro for various reasons.
I want to make clear that I think it's the best micro-cruiser design I've seen; however, I still want a substantial daysailor. I have a decrepit back, I'm clumsy, and my sailing buddy is a fairly short lady who's about to turn 70. When we rig the Micro, I just about get vertigo, clambering over the 1/4" ply cabin top while trying not to lose control of the 23' mast. That beautiful cabin is just in the way for daysailing, and while the boat can carry a LOT of weight, loading people in the cockpit just floods the motorwell. Spreading them out along an Old Shoe type of interior would be better. And of course, a tent would make it a great camp-cruiser.
This is an idea worth thinking about. I'm not sure it would be worth it on my old boat, but I might make some sketches. I don't have the plans (bought it used), but someone who does might play with this. Slice the hull just above the rubrail!
I want to make clear that I think it's the best micro-cruiser design I've seen; however, I still want a substantial daysailor. I have a decrepit back, I'm clumsy, and my sailing buddy is a fairly short lady who's about to turn 70. When we rig the Micro, I just about get vertigo, clambering over the 1/4" ply cabin top while trying not to lose control of the 23' mast. That beautiful cabin is just in the way for daysailing, and while the boat can carry a LOT of weight, loading people in the cockpit just floods the motorwell. Spreading them out along an Old Shoe type of interior would be better. And of course, a tent would make it a great camp-cruiser.
This is an idea worth thinking about. I'm not sure it would be worth it on my old boat, but I might make some sketches. I don't have the plans (bought it used), but someone who does might play with this. Slice the hull just above the rubrail!
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Joe T" <scsbmsjoe@...> wrote:
>
> Party boat for 6 or maybe 8. But would it sail with the weight?
>
> Joe T
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, <philbolger@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Sorry to have not made myself clearer Bruce. John Boy resonated in the right direction.
> >
> > Simple enough to try out by someone with a MICRO but little ambition to 'cruise'. I have not looked at any structural matters, but OLD SHOE's basic geometry ought to be transferable in principle.
> >
> > No time for it right now... But fun to kick around as a thought. Might it make a decent rental daysailer with ample 'idiot-proof' floatation in the ends ?
> >
> > Susanne Altenburger, PB&F
> >
> > P.S.: Never met the Duggar family/clan (?)
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: John Boy
> > To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 8:01 PM
> > Subject: Re: [bolger] Old Shoe-type MICRO ?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Like a big Old Shoe? I think that would be a good boat. You could just about sail the Duggar family in one. :)
> > John Boy
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I have a blog!http://toon2sailor.blogspot.com/
> >
> >
> > âSeaward ho! Hang the treasure! It's the glory of the sea that has turned my head.â
> >
> > Robert Louis Stevenson, Treasure Island
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > From: "philbolger@" <philbolger@>
> > To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 5:39 PM
> > Subject: [bolger] Old Shoe-type MICRO ?
> >
> >
> > What would you all think of a MICRO-based OLD SHOE layout ?
> >
> > Susanne Altenburger
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "John Kohnen" <jhkohnen@>
> > To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 6:24 PM
> > Subject: Re: [bolger] Old Shoe
> >
> >
> > > When Dennis displayed his Oldshoe at Port Townsend I had one of my boats
> > > on display down at the dock. Sage is a Michalak Jewelbox, Jr., finished
> > > workboat fashion, with no varnish anywhere except on the spars. An oddball
> > > boat with even more "interesting" looks than Dennis's Pearl, and nowhere
> > > near as nicely finished. Sage attracted lots of positive interest, and
> > > developed quite a fan club during the years I took her to PT (a lot of
> > > "interesting" people in the fan club, I miss them since I sold Sage <g>).
> > > A few times people stopped and said something like, "that's the most
> > > sensible boat here!" :o) There is healthy subculture of folks at the
> > > Festival who like small, sensible boats.
> > >
> > > Occasionally I'd see someone avert their eyes and quicken their pace as
> > > they walked by, but nobody said anything negative to me, though they may
> > > have muttered something to their friends that I didn't catch. ;o) I think
> > > it's terribly impolite to make negative comments about a boat when the
> > > owner is within earshot. There are varnish snobs at PT though. I'm sorry
> > > Dennis encountered some of the worst of them. <sigh> They weren't
> > > representative of the vast majority of people who attend the festival.
> > > Dennis's boat certainly didn't deserve any criticism. He did a wonderful
> > > job on her! If I felt richer, and felt like I had room in the yard for
> > > another boat, I'd snap Pearl right up! Now that I'm getting grown up,
> > > "armchair" sailing sounds real good to me. ;o)
> > >
> > > On Wed, 29 Aug 2012 07:48:32 -0700, Patrick C wrote:
> > >
> > >> Dennis, nice build! I was surprised to hear of your experience, Re:
> > >> negative comments, especially given the level of finish you obviously
> > >> gave her.
> > >> ...
> > >
> > > --
> > > John (jkohnen@)
> > > I shall allow no man to belittle my soul by making me hate him.
> > > (Booker T. Washington)
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Bolger rules!!!
> > > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
> > > horses
> > > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> > > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> > > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
> > > (978) 282-1349
> > > - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo!
> > > Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
> > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
> >
>
Party boat for 6 or maybe 8. But would it sail with the weight?
Joe T
Joe T
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, <philbolger@...> wrote:
>
>
> Sorry to have not made myself clearer Bruce. John Boy resonated in the right direction.
>
> Simple enough to try out by someone with a MICRO but little ambition to 'cruise'. I have not looked at any structural matters, but OLD SHOE's basic geometry ought to be transferable in principle.
>
> No time for it right now... But fun to kick around as a thought. Might it make a decent rental daysailer with ample 'idiot-proof' floatation in the ends ?
>
> Susanne Altenburger, PB&F
>
> P.S.: Never met the Duggar family/clan (?)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: John Boy
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 8:01 PM
> Subject: Re: [bolger] Old Shoe-type MICRO ?
>
>
>
>
> Like a big Old Shoe? I think that would be a good boat. You could just about sail the Duggar family in one. :)
> John Boy
>
>
>
>
>
> I have a blog!http://toon2sailor.blogspot.com/
>
>
> âSeaward ho! Hang the treasure! It's the glory of the sea that has turned my head.â
>
> Robert Louis Stevenson, Treasure Island
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> From: "philbolger@..." <philbolger@...>
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 5:39 PM
> Subject: [bolger] Old Shoe-type MICRO ?
>
>
> What would you all think of a MICRO-based OLD SHOE layout ?
>
> Susanne Altenburger
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Kohnen" <jhkohnen@...>
> To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 6:24 PM
> Subject: Re: [bolger] Old Shoe
>
>
> > When Dennis displayed his Oldshoe at Port Townsend I had one of my boats
> > on display down at the dock. Sage is a Michalak Jewelbox, Jr., finished
> > workboat fashion, with no varnish anywhere except on the spars. An oddball
> > boat with even more "interesting" looks than Dennis's Pearl, and nowhere
> > near as nicely finished. Sage attracted lots of positive interest, and
> > developed quite a fan club during the years I took her to PT (a lot of
> > "interesting" people in the fan club, I miss them since I sold Sage <g>).
> > A few times people stopped and said something like, "that's the most
> > sensible boat here!" :o) There is healthy subculture of folks at the
> > Festival who like small, sensible boats.
> >
> > Occasionally I'd see someone avert their eyes and quicken their pace as
> > they walked by, but nobody said anything negative to me, though they may
> > have muttered something to their friends that I didn't catch. ;o) I think
> > it's terribly impolite to make negative comments about a boat when the
> > owner is within earshot. There are varnish snobs at PT though. I'm sorry
> > Dennis encountered some of the worst of them. <sigh> They weren't
> > representative of the vast majority of people who attend the festival.
> > Dennis's boat certainly didn't deserve any criticism. He did a wonderful
> > job on her! If I felt richer, and felt like I had room in the yard for
> > another boat, I'd snap Pearl right up! Now that I'm getting grown up,
> > "armchair" sailing sounds real good to me. ;o)
> >
> > On Wed, 29 Aug 2012 07:48:32 -0700, Patrick C wrote:
> >
> >> Dennis, nice build! I was surprised to hear of your experience, Re:
> >> negative comments, especially given the level of finish you obviously
> >> gave her.
> >> ...
> >
> > --
> > John (jkohnen@...)
> > I shall allow no man to belittle my soul by making me hate him.
> > (Booker T. Washington)
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
> > horses
> > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
> > (978) 282-1349
> > - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo!
> > Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
>
Oldshoe sprawling space. Four standard adults aboard:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/photos/album/1657882815/pic/list
Joe T
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/photos/album/1657882815/pic/list
Joe T
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, BruceHallman <hallman@...> wrote:
>
> That said, the thing about Old Shoe that is best (in my subjective
> opinion) is how it gets a giant (feeling) sprawling cockpit on a tiny
> LOA. Someone somewhere described it as feeling like the cockpit of a
> 30 footer without the rest of the boat.
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 3:39 PM, <philbolger@...> wrote:
> > What would you all think of a MICRO-based OLD SHOE layout ?
> >
> > Susanne Altenburger
> >
> >
>
I speak from experience. My Oldshoe is huge in cockpit for a 12ft boat. Seriously, the boat has a cockpit of a 30ft sailboat.. four adults with room to spare and she can carry a load. Its almost uncanny when you are out there sailing, you easily forget that she is only 12ft.. she handles like a bigger full keel sailboat. She is stable and forgiving and did I say "fast"...? Off the wind, I clocked her at 6.5kts.. she can skoot! Then, when coming in to the dock, she suddenly turns into a 12ft boat! Easy to handle... helm over when tacking... easy. When sitting down deep inside the cockpit, you have the perfect backrest and yes, she does feel like an armchair. Don't think I've ever sailed a boat that is so comfortable.. no winches, no heavy forces... just the wind at your back and the sound of the waves.. pretty hard to take.
Fairwinds,
Dennis
Fairwinds,
Dennis
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen" <jhkohnen@...> wrote:
>
> I think a Micro with the open, Oldshoe layout would be a great "armchair"
> daysailing boat. In fact, I've occasionally had thoughts about cutting
> down one of the used Micros that have come up for sale in my area.
>
> One of the things that make the stock Micro unattractive for trailer
> sailing is the long, heavy mast that you've gotta climb up on the cabin
> top to step. :ob Kinda scary, too. It wouldn't be difficult to have some
> sort of mast gate in an open Micro that'd make the job a lot easier, and
> of course there'd be no climbing on top of cabin roofs. The mast might
> even be a little bit shorter.
>
> A friend of mine has a 15' electric launch with side bench bench seats
> like Oldshoe, and it's been a great boat for social boating. We've had
> eight Ol' Coots in it at one time, motoring quietly around, BSing to beat
> the band. :o) A daysailer Micro wouldn't hold quite that many Coots, but
> it'd still be great for social sailing.
>
>http://www.boat-links.com/images/JodyIII-01.jpg
>
>http://www.boat-links.com/images/JodyIII-02.jpg
>
>
> On Thu, 30 Aug 2012 15:39:40 -0700, Susanne wrote:
>
> > What would you all think of a MICRO-based OLD SHOE layout ?
> > ...
>
>
> --
> John (jkohnen@...)
> There is only one honest impulse at the bottom of Puritanism,
> and that is the impulse to punish the man with a superior
> capacity for happiness. (H. L. Mencken)
>
Are we talking of something like the HENS? Or is that more akin to the CATFISH / BEACHCAT idiom?
An OTTER was built as an open boat with as designed water ballasted hull to plan. Mods were: under fore and aft decks storage, under sidedecks foam flotation, sharpie type variable mast placement - good reports in the archive on her sailing and great stability: down this threadhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/messages/60469?threaded=1&m=e&var=1&tidx=1In addition Paul wrote elsewhere earlier this year: "...With its deep rocker, it was also an extraordinary seaboat - not unlike the Oregon and Washington state 'drift boats' designed for the rapids of big rivers. I sailed it in the Pacific Ocean off the west coast of Washington state. All the local fisherman in their 35'-45' powerboats were amazed to see me out there in my open boat with oars and sails (not even an auxilary outboard). The big payoff was the day a grey whale surfaced and 'blew' right next to me. The fisherman said it was because my boat's lack of a propeller meant the curious whale wasn't scared off."
The consideration of CYNTHIA J as re-visited in BOD article MAIB Vol24 No11, October 15 2006, may suggest that one could work well as an open boat too.
An open Micro and these are great ideas. However, if (today) you had just one vote, then that would have to go to a Long Micro Navigator, hands down, a microcruising June Bug challenger, sweet, Otter instantified would be so nice, a Zephyr Birdwatchered would be beaut, Zephyr catamaran speaks for itself, in stereo, a breakdown Zephyr in two parts, hang on now... that's two votes!
So I best vote for electoral reform. Open that one up and truly I'd go for? . . . go for broke!
An OTTER was built as an open boat with as designed water ballasted hull to plan. Mods were: under fore and aft decks storage, under sidedecks foam flotation, sharpie type variable mast placement - good reports in the archive on her sailing and great stability: down this threadhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/messages/60469?threaded=1&m=e&var=1&tidx=1In addition Paul wrote elsewhere earlier this year: "...With its deep rocker, it was also an extraordinary seaboat - not unlike the Oregon and Washington state 'drift boats' designed for the rapids of big rivers. I sailed it in the Pacific Ocean off the west coast of Washington state. All the local fisherman in their 35'-45' powerboats were amazed to see me out there in my open boat with oars and sails (not even an auxilary outboard). The big payoff was the day a grey whale surfaced and 'blew' right next to me. The fisherman said it was because my boat's lack of a propeller meant the curious whale wasn't scared off."
The consideration of CYNTHIA J as re-visited in BOD article MAIB Vol24 No11, October 15 2006, may suggest that one could work well as an open boat too.
An open Micro and these are great ideas. However, if (today) you had just one vote, then that would have to go to a Long Micro Navigator, hands down, a microcruising June Bug challenger, sweet, Otter instantified would be so nice, a Zephyr Birdwatchered would be beaut, Zephyr catamaran speaks for itself, in stereo, a breakdown Zephyr in two parts, hang on now... that's two votes!
So I best vote for electoral reform. Open that one up and truly I'd go for? . . . go for broke!
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, <philbolger@...> wrote:
> But fun to kick around as a thought.
Sorry to have not made myself clearer Bruce. John Boy resonated in the right direction.
Simple enough to try out by someone with a MICRO but little ambition to 'cruise'. I have not looked at any structural matters, but OLD SHOE's basic geometry ought to be transferable in principle.
No time for it right now... But fun to kick around as a thought. Might it make a decent rental daysailer with ample 'idiot-proof' floatation in the ends ?
Susanne Altenburger, PB&F
P.S.: Never met the Duggar family/clan (?)
----- Original Message -----From:John BoySent:Thursday, August 30, 2012 8:01 PMSubject:Re: [bolger] Old Shoe-type MICRO ?Like a big Old Shoe? I think that would be a good boat. You could just about sail the Duggar family in one. :)John BoyI have a blog! http://toon2sailor.blogspot.com/“Seaward ho! Hang the treasure! It's the glory of the sea that has turned my head.”Robert Louis Stevenson,Treasure Island
From:"philbolger@..." <philbolger@...>
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent:Thursday, August 30, 2012 5:39 PM
Subject:[bolger] Old Shoe-type MICRO ?
What would you all think of a MICRO-based OLD SHOE layout ?
Susanne Altenburger
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Kohnen" <jhkohnen@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 6:24 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Old Shoe
> When Dennis displayed his Oldshoe at Port Townsend I had one of my boats
> on display down at the dock. Sage is a Michalak Jewelbox, Jr., finished
> workboat fashion, with no varnish anywhere except on the spars. An oddball
> boat with even more "interesting" looks than Dennis's Pearl, and nowhere
> near as nicely finished. Sage attracted lots of positive interest, and
> developed quite a fan club during the years I took her to PT (a lot of
> "interesting" people in the fan club, I miss them since I sold Sage <g>).
> A few times people stopped and said something like, "that's the most
> sensible boat here!" :o) There is healthy subculture of folks at the
> Festival who like small, sensible boats.
>
> Occasionally I'd see someone avert their eyes and quicken their pace as
> they walked by, but nobody said anything negative to me, though they may
> have muttered something to their friends that I didn't catch. ;o) I think
> it's terribly impolite to make negative comments about a boat when the
> owner is within earshot. There are varnish snobs at PT though. I'm sorry
> Dennis encountered some of the worst of them. <sigh> They weren't
> representative of the vast majority of people who attend the festival.
> Dennis's boat certainly didn't deserve any criticism. He did a wonderful
> job on her! If I felt richer, and felt like I had room in the yard for
> another boat, I'd snap Pearl right up! Now that I'm getting grown up,
> "armchair" sailing sounds real good to me. ;o)
>
> On Wed, 29 Aug 2012 07:48:32 -0700, Patrick C wrote:
>
>> Dennis, nice build! I was surprised to hear of your experience, Re:
>> negative comments, especially given the level of finish you obviously
>> gave her.
>> ...
>
> --
> John (jkohnen@...)
> I shall allow no man to belittle my soul by making me hate him.
> (Booker T. Washington)
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
> horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
> (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo!
> Groups Links
>
>
>
------------------------------------
Bolger rules!!!
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- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
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- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
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I think a Micro with the open, Oldshoe layout would be a great "armchair"
daysailing boat. In fact, I've occasionally had thoughts about cutting
down one of the used Micros that have come up for sale in my area.
One of the things that make the stock Micro unattractive for trailer
sailing is the long, heavy mast that you've gotta climb up on the cabin
top to step. :ob Kinda scary, too. It wouldn't be difficult to have some
sort of mast gate in an open Micro that'd make the job a lot easier, and
of course there'd be no climbing on top of cabin roofs. The mast might
even be a little bit shorter.
A friend of mine has a 15' electric launch with side bench bench seats
like Oldshoe, and it's been a great boat for social boating. We've had
eight Ol' Coots in it at one time, motoring quietly around, BSing to beat
the band. :o) A daysailer Micro wouldn't hold quite that many Coots, but
it'd still be great for social sailing.
http://www.boat-links.com/images/JodyIII-01.jpg
http://www.boat-links.com/images/JodyIII-02.jpg
daysailing boat. In fact, I've occasionally had thoughts about cutting
down one of the used Micros that have come up for sale in my area.
One of the things that make the stock Micro unattractive for trailer
sailing is the long, heavy mast that you've gotta climb up on the cabin
top to step. :ob Kinda scary, too. It wouldn't be difficult to have some
sort of mast gate in an open Micro that'd make the job a lot easier, and
of course there'd be no climbing on top of cabin roofs. The mast might
even be a little bit shorter.
A friend of mine has a 15' electric launch with side bench bench seats
like Oldshoe, and it's been a great boat for social boating. We've had
eight Ol' Coots in it at one time, motoring quietly around, BSing to beat
the band. :o) A daysailer Micro wouldn't hold quite that many Coots, but
it'd still be great for social sailing.
http://www.boat-links.com/images/JodyIII-01.jpg
http://www.boat-links.com/images/JodyIII-02.jpg
On Thu, 30 Aug 2012 15:39:40 -0700, Susanne wrote:
> What would you all think of a MICRO-based OLD SHOE layout ?
> ...
--
John (jkohnen@...)
There is only one honest impulse at the bottom of Puritanism,
and that is the impulse to punish the man with a superior
capacity for happiness. (H. L. Mencken)
Why build a Micro Old shoe when you could build a Micro?
Steve Statkus
Steve Statkus
On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 6:39 PM,<philbolger@...>wrote:What would you all think of a MICRO-based OLD SHOE layout ?
Susanne Altenburger
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Kohnen" <jhkohnen@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 6:24 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Old Shoe
> When Dennis displayed his Oldshoe at Port Townsend I had one of my boats
> on display down at the dock. Sage is a Michalak Jewelbox, Jr., finished
> workboat fashion, with no varnish anywhere except on the spars. An oddball
> boat with even more "interesting" looks than Dennis's Pearl, and nowhere
> near as nicely finished. Sage attracted lots of positive interest, and
> developed quite a fan club during the years I took her to PT (a lot of
> "interesting" people in the fan club, I miss them since I sold Sage <g>).
> A few times people stopped and said something like, "that's the most
> sensible boat here!" :o) There is healthy subculture of folks at the
> Festival who like small, sensible boats.
>
> Occasionally I'd see someone avert their eyes and quicken their pace as
> they walked by, but nobody said anything negative to me, though they may
> have muttered something to their friends that I didn't catch. ;o) I think
> it's terribly impolite to make negative comments about a boat when the
> owner is within earshot. There are varnish snobs at PT though. I'm sorry
> Dennis encountered some of the worst of them. <sigh> They weren't
> representative of the vast majority of people who attend the festival.
> Dennis's boat certainly didn't deserve any criticism. He did a wonderful
> job on her! If I felt richer, and felt like I had room in the yard for
> another boat, I'd snap Pearl right up! Now that I'm getting grown up,
> "armchair" sailing sounds real good to me. ;o)
>
> On Wed, 29 Aug 2012 07:48:32 -0700, Patrick C wrote:
>
>> Dennis, nice build! I was surprised to hear of your experience, Re:
>> negative comments, especially given the level of finish you obviously
>> gave her.
>> ...
>
> --
> John (jkohnen@...)
> I shall allow no man to belittle my soul by making me hate him.
> (Booker T. Washington)
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
> horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
>(978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo!
> Groups Links
>
>
>
------------------------------------
Bolger rules!!!
- NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:(978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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Like a big Old Shoe? I think that would be a good boat. You could just about sail the Duggar family in one. :)
John Boy
I have a blog! http://toon2sailor.blogspot.com/
“Seaward ho! Hang the treasure! It's the glory of the sea that has turned my head.”
Robert Louis Stevenson,Treasure
Island
From:"philbolger@..." <philbolger@...>
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent:Thursday, August 30, 2012 5:39 PM
Subject:[bolger] Old Shoe-type MICRO ?
What would you all think of a MICRO-based OLD SHOE layout ?
Susanne Altenburger
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Kohnen" <jhkohnen@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 6:24 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Old Shoe
> When Dennis displayed his Oldshoe at Port Townsend I had one of my boats
> on display down at the dock. Sage is a Michalak Jewelbox, Jr., finished
> workboat fashion, with no varnish anywhere except on the spars. An oddball
> boat with even more "interesting" looks than Dennis's Pearl, and nowhere
> near as nicely finished. Sage attracted lots of positive interest, and
> developed quite a fan club during the years I took her to PT (a lot of
> "interesting" people in the fan club, I miss them since I sold Sage <g>).
> A few times people stopped and said something like, "that's the most
> sensible boat here!" :o) There is healthy subculture of folks at the
> Festival who like small, sensible boats.
>
> Occasionally I'd see someone avert their eyes and quicken their pace as
> they walked by, but nobody said anything negative to me, though they may
> have muttered something to their friends that I didn't catch. ;o) I think
> it's terribly impolite to make negative comments about a boat when the
> owner is within earshot. There are varnish snobs at PT though. I'm sorry
> Dennis encountered some of the worst of them. <sigh> They weren't
> representative of the vast majority of people who attend the festival.
> Dennis's boat certainly didn't deserve any criticism. He did a wonderful
> job on her! If I felt richer, and felt like I had room in the yard for
> another boat, I'd snap Pearl right up! Now that I'm getting grown up,
> "armchair" sailing sounds real good to me. ;o)
>
> On Wed, 29 Aug 2012 07:48:32 -0700, Patrick C wrote:
>
>> Dennis, nice build! I was surprised to hear of your experience, Re:
>> negative comments, especially given the level of finish you obviously
>> gave her.
>> ...
>
> --
> John (jkohnen@...)
> I shall allow no man to belittle my soul by making me hate him.
> (Booker T. Washington)
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
> horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
> (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo!
> Groups Links
>
>
>
------------------------------------
Bolger rules!!!
- NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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First, micro cruisers are endlessly fascinating. Like, for instance Nano!
That said, the thing about Old Shoe that is best (in my subjective
opinion) is how it gets a giant (feeling) sprawling cockpit on a tiny
LOA. Someone somewhere described it as feeling like the cockpit of a
30 footer without the rest of the boat.
I fear that putting a cuddy cabin on the OldShoe hull would end up
with a too small cabin plus a too small cockpit. Maybe you are
thinking of Old Shoe with a navigator cabin? That would be
interesting to see.
That said, the thing about Old Shoe that is best (in my subjective
opinion) is how it gets a giant (feeling) sprawling cockpit on a tiny
LOA. Someone somewhere described it as feeling like the cockpit of a
30 footer without the rest of the boat.
I fear that putting a cuddy cabin on the OldShoe hull would end up
with a too small cabin plus a too small cockpit. Maybe you are
thinking of Old Shoe with a navigator cabin? That would be
interesting to see.
On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 3:39 PM, <philbolger@...> wrote:
> What would you all think of a MICRO-based OLD SHOE layout ?
>
> Susanne Altenburger
>
>
What would you all think of a MICRO-based OLD SHOE layout ?
Susanne Altenburger
Susanne Altenburger
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Kohnen" <jhkohnen@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 6:24 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Old Shoe
> When Dennis displayed his Oldshoe at Port Townsend I had one of my boats
> on display down at the dock. Sage is a Michalak Jewelbox, Jr., finished
> workboat fashion, with no varnish anywhere except on the spars. An oddball
> boat with even more "interesting" looks than Dennis's Pearl, and nowhere
> near as nicely finished. Sage attracted lots of positive interest, and
> developed quite a fan club during the years I took her to PT (a lot of
> "interesting" people in the fan club, I miss them since I sold Sage <g>).
> A few times people stopped and said something like, "that's the most
> sensible boat here!" :o) There is healthy subculture of folks at the
> Festival who like small, sensible boats.
>
> Occasionally I'd see someone avert their eyes and quicken their pace as
> they walked by, but nobody said anything negative to me, though they may
> have muttered something to their friends that I didn't catch. ;o) I think
> it's terribly impolite to make negative comments about a boat when the
> owner is within earshot. There are varnish snobs at PT though. I'm sorry
> Dennis encountered some of the worst of them. <sigh> They weren't
> representative of the vast majority of people who attend the festival.
> Dennis's boat certainly didn't deserve any criticism. He did a wonderful
> job on her! If I felt richer, and felt like I had room in the yard for
> another boat, I'd snap Pearl right up! Now that I'm getting grown up,
> "armchair" sailing sounds real good to me. ;o)
>
> On Wed, 29 Aug 2012 07:48:32 -0700, Patrick C wrote:
>
>> Dennis, nice build! I was surprised to hear of your experience, Re:
>> negative comments, especially given the level of finish you obviously
>> gave her.
>> ...
>
> --
> John (jkohnen@...)
> I shall allow no man to belittle my soul by making me hate him.
> (Booker T. Washington)
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
> horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
> (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo!
> Groups Links
>
>
>
When Dennis displayed his Oldshoe at Port Townsend I had one of my boats
on display down at the dock. Sage is a Michalak Jewelbox, Jr., finished
workboat fashion, with no varnish anywhere except on the spars. An oddball
boat with even more "interesting" looks than Dennis's Pearl, and nowhere
near as nicely finished. Sage attracted lots of positive interest, and
developed quite a fan club during the years I took her to PT (a lot of
"interesting" people in the fan club, I miss them since I sold Sage <g>).
A few times people stopped and said something like, "that's the most
sensible boat here!" :o) There is healthy subculture of folks at the
Festival who like small, sensible boats.
Occasionally I'd see someone avert their eyes and quicken their pace as
they walked by, but nobody said anything negative to me, though they may
have muttered something to their friends that I didn't catch. ;o) I think
it's terribly impolite to make negative comments about a boat when the
owner is within earshot. There are varnish snobs at PT though. I'm sorry
Dennis encountered some of the worst of them. <sigh> They weren't
representative of the vast majority of people who attend the festival.
Dennis's boat certainly didn't deserve any criticism. He did a wonderful
job on her! If I felt richer, and felt like I had room in the yard for
another boat, I'd snap Pearl right up! Now that I'm getting grown up,
"armchair" sailing sounds real good to me. ;o)
on display down at the dock. Sage is a Michalak Jewelbox, Jr., finished
workboat fashion, with no varnish anywhere except on the spars. An oddball
boat with even more "interesting" looks than Dennis's Pearl, and nowhere
near as nicely finished. Sage attracted lots of positive interest, and
developed quite a fan club during the years I took her to PT (a lot of
"interesting" people in the fan club, I miss them since I sold Sage <g>).
A few times people stopped and said something like, "that's the most
sensible boat here!" :o) There is healthy subculture of folks at the
Festival who like small, sensible boats.
Occasionally I'd see someone avert their eyes and quicken their pace as
they walked by, but nobody said anything negative to me, though they may
have muttered something to their friends that I didn't catch. ;o) I think
it's terribly impolite to make negative comments about a boat when the
owner is within earshot. There are varnish snobs at PT though. I'm sorry
Dennis encountered some of the worst of them. <sigh> They weren't
representative of the vast majority of people who attend the festival.
Dennis's boat certainly didn't deserve any criticism. He did a wonderful
job on her! If I felt richer, and felt like I had room in the yard for
another boat, I'd snap Pearl right up! Now that I'm getting grown up,
"armchair" sailing sounds real good to me. ;o)
On Wed, 29 Aug 2012 07:48:32 -0700, Patrick C wrote:
> Dennis, nice build! I was surprised to hear of your experience, Re:
> negative comments, especially given the level of finish you obviously
> gave her.
> ...
--
John (jkohnen@...)
I shall allow no man to belittle my soul by making me hate him.
(Booker T. Washington)
Thanks Pat, I was surprized myself. Those comments came during a wooden boat show. Personally, I feel they came from ignorance at the beauty of Phil Bolger's designs.... no clue. I did received and continue to receive very favorable comments whenever I go sailing. Yes, top question is "did you build that?" Many smiles as we sail away from the dock. I have mixed feelings about letting her go, but have to be realistic too. She will make someone a fine boat.
Regards,
Dennis
Regards,
Dennis
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Connor, Patrick" <pconnor@...> wrote:
>
> Dennis, nice build! I was surprised to hear of your experience, Re:
> negative comments, especially given the level of finish you obviously
> gave her. My Whalewatcher draws a crowd wherever she goes but comments
> have been overwhelmingly positive, with great interest in the design
> concept, its capabilities, construction, etc. I can't recall receiving a
> truly insulting or overtly negative comment. Maybe that's what
> "Interesting" means, but this IS the midwest....although she has been in
> the Chesapeake several times, including Annapolis , where we soundly
> beat a fleet of Etchell 22's in light air, to the delight of the sailing
> coach, who was thoroughly complimentary.
>
> #1 Question: "Is that a homemade boat?"
>
> Patrick A. Connor
> Executive Vice President & Manager,
> National Services Group
> Old Republic National Title Insurance Company
> 141 East Town Street, Suite 101
> Columbus, Ohio 43215-5412
> Phone: 614-341-1900 Ext 13502
> Mobile: 614-208-9308
> Facsimile: 614-341-1903
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of dennislancaster789
> Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2012 12:23 AM
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [bolger] Old Shoe
>
>
>
>
> Howdy Folks,
>
> Its been some time since I posted to this forum. In 2009, I completed
> the build of Phil Bolger's "Old Shoe". I have now reached a point that I
> need to sell her. She is in really good conditon and has been well cared
> for. You can see the build log here:
>http://www.solopublications.com/saillanc.html
>
> If interested, feel free to contact me direct at: dllbjl@...
> <mailto:dllbjl%40comcast.net>
>
> "Pearl" is wonderful boat to sail. Forgiving and is truly an "arm chair"
> sailboat. A true testimate to Phil Bolger's "form and function". In
> 2009, I had the honor of showing her at the Port Townsend Wooden Boat
> festival.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Dennis Lancaster
> Bellingham, Washington
>
Dennis, nice build! I was surprised to hear of your
experience, Re: negative comments, especially given the level of finish you
obviously gave her. My Whalewatcher draws a crowd wherever she goes but comments
have been overwhelmingly positive, with great interest in the design concept,
its capabilities, construction, etc. I can't recall receiving a truly insulting
or overtly negative comment. Maybe that's what "Interesting" means, but
this IS the midwest....although she has been in the Chesapeake several times,
including Annapolis , where we soundly beat a fleet of Etchell 22's in light
air, to the delight of the sailing coach, who was thoroughly
complimentary.
#1 Question: "Is that a homemade boat?"
Patrick A. Connor
Executive Vice President &
Manager,
National Services Group
Old Republic National Title Insurance
Company
141 East Town Street, Suite
101
Columbus, Ohio 43215-5412
Phone: 614-341-1900 Ext
13502
Mobile: 614-208-9308
Facsimile: 614-341-1903
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Ofdennislancaster789
Sent:Wednesday, August 29, 2012 12:23 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject:[bolger] Old Shoe
Howdy Folks,
Its been some time since I posted to this forum. In 2009,
I completed the build of Phil Bolger's "Old Shoe". I have now reached a point
that I need to sell her. She is in really good conditon and has been well cared
for. You can see the build log here:http://www.solopublications.com/saillanc.html
If
interested, feel free to contact me direct at:dllbjl@...
"Pearl" is
wonderful boat to sail. Forgiving and is truly an "arm chair" sailboat. A true
testimate to Phil Bolger's "form and function". In 2009, I had the honor of
showing her at the Port Townsend Wooden Boat festival.
Best
regards,
Dennis Lancaster
Bellingham, Washington
Howdy Folks,
Its been some time since I posted to this forum. In 2009, I completed the build of Phil Bolger's "Old Shoe". I have now reached a point that I need to sell her. She is in really good conditon and has been well cared for. You can see the build log here:http://www.solopublications.com/saillanc.html
If interested, feel free to contact me direct at:dllbjl@...
"Pearl" is wonderful boat to sail. Forgiving and is truly an "arm chair" sailboat. A true testimate to Phil Bolger's "form and function". In 2009, I had the honor of showing her at the Port Townsend Wooden Boat festival.
Best regards,
Dennis Lancaster
Bellingham, Washington
Its been some time since I posted to this forum. In 2009, I completed the build of Phil Bolger's "Old Shoe". I have now reached a point that I need to sell her. She is in really good conditon and has been well cared for. You can see the build log here:http://www.solopublications.com/saillanc.html
If interested, feel free to contact me direct at:dllbjl@...
"Pearl" is wonderful boat to sail. Forgiving and is truly an "arm chair" sailboat. A true testimate to Phil Bolger's "form and function". In 2009, I had the honor of showing her at the Port Townsend Wooden Boat festival.
Best regards,
Dennis Lancaster
Bellingham, Washington
This thing of boat building is a strange habit. As a young child maybe
8 years old I helped my older playmates as much as they would tolerate
me in bulding of punts, scows and what we called duck boats. These boats
were built from old house lumber torn up rags for caulking and it sealed
over with tar. I took a many a bath in Kero to get the tar off and the
amount of clothing we all ruined( also washed in kero) would likely have
bought a decent skiff.
Some of these boats made it to the water and we used them in the
Baltimore harbor amongst Lumber schooners, tugboats and even manuvering
ships. A few of these adventures I remember pretty well but was
recently reminded at a sort of reunion of my playmates a while back of
and adventure we had. I had forgotten about the incident.
I can assure you though I remember every detail of every boat we
built and there were several. We built all kinds of models before and
during the time we built the punts and I remeber all of them in detail.
I may have forgotten the dimentions but I can visuallize the shape of
every piece.
Innovation was a big part of the building and so much so that a
couple of the boats we built had to be busted up by an older brother who
at the command of his father somewhat shame faced took a mall to them.
Likely saving our lives! That father by the way was an ex eastern shore
work boat builder and he was the inspiration for many of the boats we
built. It was only when we built a six foot tall cabin or simular, on
one end of a 12ft punt that he called up the wrecking ball.
So! The the thing is this, It's the building rather than the using
that has meant the most to me and guess what? These lists boatdesign
and others, bring it all back to me and I would think they are a huge
asset to the boat designer. That is if he is inclined to join in on
these conversations. The designers may have the answers but these are
great places to find the questions. I don't think I would build another
boat designed by someone who does not partisapate in one of these
groups. The idea of being able to get an answer to a problem or even a
curious question so easily is really appealing to me. I am building and
Elver and I have never talked to the designer. I can to some degree
guess why he has done certain things but I have never asked him. I
could call him but it's not the same. His canoe plan is cheap so I
guess I shouldn't expect for him to spend time answering my dumb
questions.
I am almost seventy four years old and the time may be coming where
I may well go back to building model boats. I recently bought to
inflatable life vests with the thought that what the heck will my
wife do if we need to swim to shore!
Years ago the solution would have been that we each grab and oar use
it for floation and head out the several miles to the nearest land. We
were capable of that in the summer time anyway.
Recently a life long friend and I went past a boat yard where a
rotten old wooden sailboat set forlorn and sagging on blocks. He said to
me laughing, can you hear her crying out to you for help. Sometimes
really good friends know you better than you know yourself.
Doug
Bruce Hallman wrote:
8 years old I helped my older playmates as much as they would tolerate
me in bulding of punts, scows and what we called duck boats. These boats
were built from old house lumber torn up rags for caulking and it sealed
over with tar. I took a many a bath in Kero to get the tar off and the
amount of clothing we all ruined( also washed in kero) would likely have
bought a decent skiff.
Some of these boats made it to the water and we used them in the
Baltimore harbor amongst Lumber schooners, tugboats and even manuvering
ships. A few of these adventures I remember pretty well but was
recently reminded at a sort of reunion of my playmates a while back of
and adventure we had. I had forgotten about the incident.
I can assure you though I remember every detail of every boat we
built and there were several. We built all kinds of models before and
during the time we built the punts and I remeber all of them in detail.
I may have forgotten the dimentions but I can visuallize the shape of
every piece.
Innovation was a big part of the building and so much so that a
couple of the boats we built had to be busted up by an older brother who
at the command of his father somewhat shame faced took a mall to them.
Likely saving our lives! That father by the way was an ex eastern shore
work boat builder and he was the inspiration for many of the boats we
built. It was only when we built a six foot tall cabin or simular, on
one end of a 12ft punt that he called up the wrecking ball.
So! The the thing is this, It's the building rather than the using
that has meant the most to me and guess what? These lists boatdesign
and others, bring it all back to me and I would think they are a huge
asset to the boat designer. That is if he is inclined to join in on
these conversations. The designers may have the answers but these are
great places to find the questions. I don't think I would build another
boat designed by someone who does not partisapate in one of these
groups. The idea of being able to get an answer to a problem or even a
curious question so easily is really appealing to me. I am building and
Elver and I have never talked to the designer. I can to some degree
guess why he has done certain things but I have never asked him. I
could call him but it's not the same. His canoe plan is cheap so I
guess I shouldn't expect for him to spend time answering my dumb
questions.
I am almost seventy four years old and the time may be coming where
I may well go back to building model boats. I recently bought to
inflatable life vests with the thought that what the heck will my
wife do if we need to swim to shore!
Years ago the solution would have been that we each grab and oar use
it for floation and head out the several miles to the nearest land. We
were capable of that in the summer time anyway.
Recently a life long friend and I went past a boat yard where a
rotten old wooden sailboat set forlorn and sagging on blocks. He said to
me laughing, can you hear her crying out to you for help. Sometimes
really good friends know you better than you know yourself.
Doug
Bruce Hallman wrote:
>
> On Fri, Mar 14, 2008 at 5:29 AM, adventures_in_astrophotography
> <jon@...<mailto:jon%40kolbsadventures.com>> wrote:
>
> > And ditto again. I'm hopelessly addicted to building inexpensive small
> > boats
>
> And, even small paper models. It is not that hard to make a paper
> model, in a couple hours start to finish.
>
> Like a Bolger's Viking longship
>
>http://flickr.com/photos/hallman/288029410/
> <http://flickr.com/photos/hallman/288029410/>
>
> As much as I would like to build one full size, life unfortunately is
> too short.
>
>
I have built some models. I have a Teal, and the recent Lumber yard Skiff from Woodenboat. And I'm in the middle of a car topper. I use to have a model of the Pirogue, and Gypsy, but I really can't recall what happened to those.
I came to that conclusion too. It's more likely that I'll be able to afford building a model than the real thing. Still, there is just something about building the real thing. I have considered a model of Micro with removable top so I could show my wife the interior and attempt to convince her that this would be a good boat for us after we send the kids away.... Ahhhh, kids away.
----- Original Message ----
From: Bruce Hallman <bruce@...>
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 9:56:02 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Old Shoe
Learn to build models, and you can have fun building one boat a day.
____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I came to that conclusion too. It's more likely that I'll be able to afford building a model than the real thing. Still, there is just something about building the real thing. I have considered a model of Micro with removable top so I could show my wife the interior and attempt to convince her that this would be a good boat for us after we send the kids away.... Ahhhh, kids away.
----- Original Message ----
From: Bruce Hallman <bruce@...>
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 9:56:02 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Old Shoe
> If I could afford it, I would build a boat every year just for the fun of it.Ditto from me.
> Rick
Learn to build models, and you can have fun building one boat a day.
____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
On Fri, Mar 14, 2008 at 5:29 AM, adventures_in_astrophotography
<jon@...> wrote:
model, in a couple hours start to finish.
Like a Bolger's Viking longship
http://flickr.com/photos/hallman/288029410/
As much as I would like to build one full size, life unfortunately is too short.
<jon@...> wrote:
> And ditto again. I'm hopelessly addicted to building inexpensive smallAnd, even small paper models. It is not that hard to make a paper
> boats
model, in a couple hours start to finish.
Like a Bolger's Viking longship
http://flickr.com/photos/hallman/288029410/
As much as I would like to build one full size, life unfortunately is too short.
Hi Bruce,
boats and I need to stop soon in order to start work on our cruiser -
hopefully by next winter. Since that will be a completely different
kind of project where realization of even the basic shape is a long way
off, I expect some withdrawl symptoms. To counter those, I've started
getting organized for model building, something I've enjoyed in the
past before I started building full size, and will probably carry this
hobby over to living aboard.
Jon Kolb
www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
> Ditto from me.And ditto again. I'm hopelessly addicted to building inexpensive small
> Learn to build models, and you can have fun building one boat a day.
boats and I need to stop soon in order to start work on our cruiser -
hopefully by next winter. Since that will be a completely different
kind of project where realization of even the basic shape is a long way
off, I expect some withdrawl symptoms. To counter those, I've started
getting organized for model building, something I've enjoyed in the
past before I started building full size, and will probably carry this
hobby over to living aboard.
Jon Kolb
www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
I built my Elegant Punt for $60, but I think you would have to use
Marine Plywood if you were going to sell them which would bring it over
a hundred. Second from bottom at
http://tritonclass.org/mir/144ta.html
HJ
rick barnes wrote:
Marine Plywood if you were going to sell them which would bring it over
a hundred. Second from bottom at
http://tritonclass.org/mir/144ta.html
HJ
rick barnes wrote:
> If I could afford it, I would buid a boat every year just for the fun of it. Every completion was a mix of a sense of accomplishment mixed with a desire to build another. So yep, I guess it's pretty common. I am going to look into building small dingys. I think they are small enough, and require litttle enough materials that I could sell one for more than the cost of the materials, and use the money to build another.
>
> Rick
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: lancasterdennis <dlancast@...>
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 5:09:03 PM
> Subject: [bolger] Re: Old Shoe
>
> --
> Tks for sharing that Doug, It brings an important point for me that
> perhaps others on this forum would be willing to share about. I am
> finding that its the "project" more than the actual use of the boat.
> Oh, I'm excited about using the boat, but as it comes near
> completion, I am feeling a sense of loss or something like.. like I
> don't want it to end. I'm having so much fun with the building part
> that I guess I just want it to continue. Oh, I know that I could
> keep on building boats (and I might). Do others feel the same about
> this?
>
> regards,
>
> Dennis
>
>
>
> If I could afford it, I would build a boat every year just for the fun of it.Ditto from me.
> Rick
Learn to build models, and you can have fun building one boat a day.
If I could afford it, I would buid a boat every year just for the fun of it. Every completion was a mix of a sense of accomplishment mixed with a desire to build another. So yep, I guess it's pretty common. I am going to look into building small dingys. I think they are small enough, and require litttle enough materials that I could sell one for more than the cost of the materials, and use the money to build another.
Rick
----- Original Message ----
From: lancasterdennis <dlancast@...>
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 5:09:03 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Old Shoe
--
Tks for sharing that Doug, It brings an important point for me that
perhaps others on this forum would be willing to share about. I am
finding that its the "project" more than the actual use of the boat.
Oh, I'm excited about using the boat, but as it comes near
completion, I am feeling a sense of loss or something like.. like I
don't want it to end. I'm having so much fun with the building part
that I guess I just want it to continue. Oh, I know that I could
keep on building boats (and I might). Do others feel the same about
this?
regards,
Dennis
- In bolger@yahoogroups. com, Douglas Pollard <Dougpol1@.. .> wrote:
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Rick
----- Original Message ----
From: lancasterdennis <dlancast@...>
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 5:09:03 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Old Shoe
--
Tks for sharing that Doug, It brings an important point for me that
perhaps others on this forum would be willing to share about. I am
finding that its the "project" more than the actual use of the boat.
Oh, I'm excited about using the boat, but as it comes near
completion, I am feeling a sense of loss or something like.. like I
don't want it to end. I'm having so much fun with the building part
that I guess I just want it to continue. Oh, I know that I could
keep on building boats (and I might). Do others feel the same about
this?
regards,
Dennis
- In bolger@yahoogroups. com, Douglas Pollard <Dougpol1@.. .> wrote:
>hull. At
> Chester Young wrote:
> >
> > I will second what Dennis said. I have just put over 60 hours into
> > EstherMae for a chine re-glassing, bottom job and painting of the
> > my billing rate that is well over the $5,000 being asked for thethat cannot
> > OldShoe and
> > equal to what I paid for EstherMae two years ago. This is love
> > be expressed in $. In my case there is nothing even remotely likea
> > Tennessee available on the commercial market and for my wife andme it is
> > the perfect boat for where we are monetarily and geographically.I have
> > recognized that this is my hobby and lurking here and a coupleother sites
> > has given me the confidence to grind the chines and re-glass. Iam totally
> > excited about starting the next phase, which is to open the bowand
> > reconfigure the cabin. But for now I want to ride her around andenjoy the
> > new paint scheme, clean bottom and stainless prop. I too amhaving the
> > timeOn
> > of my life with Esther Mae.
> >
> > See ya on the water!
> >
> > Caloosarat
> >
> > _____
> >
> > From: bolger@yahoogroups. com <mailto:bolger% 40yahoogroups. com>
> > [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups. com <mailto:bolger% 40yahoogroups. com>]
> > Behalf Ofpay and
> > lancasterdennis
> >
> > Used home-built wood boats are worth what people are willing to
> > often, it is not as much as cost to build. . I'm sure not inreally don't
> > this for the re-sale value. I'm doing the project for me. . I
> > care howand I'm
> > much it costs me to build. I'm doing exactly what I want to do
> > a happy camper and having the time of my life!second
> >
> > Dennis
> >
> > -- In bolger@yahoogroups. <mailto:bolger% 40yahoogroups. com> com,
> > <martin.me.roberts@ > wrote:
> > > I feel that the Old Shoe is worth $5000, but if you look at
> > hand prices for these type of boats they seem to be much muchlower
> > that they cost.materials
> > Martin
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> If anyone thinks it is somehow unfair to only get the cost of
> out of a home built boat consider the other option. Buy a $20,000worth
> factory built glass boat keep it 10 years and it will likely be
> $3000 to $7000. If you have to burn your boat after some time youare
> still likely $10,000 ahead and you had the pleasure of building itand
> that in many ways for me is a greater pleasure even than using it.____________________________________________________________________________________
>
> Doug
>
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I would say that since I did not build Esther Mae I feel less than
accomplished about having her. A lot of folks ask, "did you build this?".
I cannot say yes and that makes me feel jealous of those who can say "yes I
did". However in considering the time it takes me to get something done I
am happy to have her and be on the water. Part of the excitement is in
having the ability to say, no I did not do the original build, but I have
done all the modifications. There is something about building a boat that
has a big wow factor. Not that I chose Esther Mae to impress people.
Caloosarat
_____
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
lancasterdennis
It brings an important point for me that perhaps others on this forum would
be willing to share about. I am finding that its the "project" more than the
actual use of the boat. Oh, I'm excited about using the boat, but as it
comes near completion, I am feeling a sense of loss or something like.. like
I don't want it to end. I'm having so much fun with the building part that I
guess I just want it to continue. Oh, I know that I could keep on building
boats (and I might). Do others feel the same about this?
regards,
Dennis
- In bolger@yahoogroups. <mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com> com, Douglas
Pollard <Dougpol1@...> wrote:
On
accomplished about having her. A lot of folks ask, "did you build this?".
I cannot say yes and that makes me feel jealous of those who can say "yes I
did". However in considering the time it takes me to get something done I
am happy to have her and be on the water. Part of the excitement is in
having the ability to say, no I did not do the original build, but I have
done all the modifications. There is something about building a boat that
has a big wow factor. Not that I chose Esther Mae to impress people.
Caloosarat
_____
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
lancasterdennis
It brings an important point for me that perhaps others on this forum would
be willing to share about. I am finding that its the "project" more than the
actual use of the boat. Oh, I'm excited about using the boat, but as it
comes near completion, I am feeling a sense of loss or something like.. like
I don't want it to end. I'm having so much fun with the building part that I
guess I just want it to continue. Oh, I know that I could keep on building
boats (and I might). Do others feel the same about this?
regards,
Dennis
- In bolger@yahoogroups. <mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com> com, Douglas
Pollard <Dougpol1@...> wrote:
>hull. At
> Chester Young wrote:
> >
> > I will second what Dennis said. I have just put over 60 hours into
> > EstherMae for a chine re-glassing, bottom job and painting of the
> > my billing rate that is well over the $5,000 being asked for thethat cannot
> > OldShoe and
> > equal to what I paid for EstherMae two years ago. This is love
> > be expressed in $. In my case there is nothing even remotely likea
> > Tennessee available on the commercial market and for my wife andme it is
> > the perfect boat for where we are monetarily and geographically.I have
> > recognized that this is my hobby and lurking here and a coupleother sites
> > has given me the confidence to grind the chines and re-glass. Iam totally
> > excited about starting the next phase, which is to open the bowand
> > reconfigure the cabin. But for now I want to ride her around andenjoy the
> > new paint scheme, clean bottom and stainless prop. I too amhaving the
> > time<mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com>
> > of my life with Esther Mae.
> >
> > See ya on the water!
> >
> > Caloosarat
> >
> > _____
> >
> > From: bolger@yahoogroups. <mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com> com
> > [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups. <mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com> com<mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com>]
On
> > Behalf Ofpay and
> > lancasterdennis
> >
> > Used home-built wood boats are worth what people are willing to
> > often, it is not as much as cost to build. . I'm sure not inreally don't
> > this for the re-sale value. I'm doing the project for me. . I
> > care howand I'm
> > much it costs me to build. I'm doing exactly what I want to do
> > a happy camper and having the time of my life!second
> >
> > Dennis
> >
> > -- In bolger@yahoogroups. <mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com> com,
> > <martin.me.roberts@> wrote:
> > > I feel that the Old Shoe is worth $5000, but if you look at
> > hand prices for these type of boats they seem to be much muchlower
> > that they cost.materials
> > Martin
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> If anyone thinks it is somehow unfair to only get the cost of
> out of a home built boat consider the other option. Buy a $20,000worth
> factory built glass boat keep it 10 years and it will likely be
> $3000 to $7000. If you have to burn your boat after some time youare
> still likely $10,000 ahead and you had the pleasure of building itand
> that in many ways for me is a greater pleasure even than using it.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> Doug
>
--
Tks for sharing that Doug, It brings an important point for me that
perhaps others on this forum would be willing to share about. I am
finding that its the "project" more than the actual use of the boat.
Oh, I'm excited about using the boat, but as it comes near
completion, I am feeling a sense of loss or something like.. like I
don't want it to end. I'm having so much fun with the building part
that I guess I just want it to continue. Oh, I know that I could
keep on building boats (and I might). Do others feel the same about
this?
regards,
Dennis
- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Douglas Pollard <Dougpol1@...> wrote:
Tks for sharing that Doug, It brings an important point for me that
perhaps others on this forum would be willing to share about. I am
finding that its the "project" more than the actual use of the boat.
Oh, I'm excited about using the boat, but as it comes near
completion, I am feeling a sense of loss or something like.. like I
don't want it to end. I'm having so much fun with the building part
that I guess I just want it to continue. Oh, I know that I could
keep on building boats (and I might). Do others feel the same about
this?
regards,
Dennis
- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Douglas Pollard <Dougpol1@...> wrote:
>hull. At
> Chester Young wrote:
> >
> > I will second what Dennis said. I have just put over 60 hours into
> > EstherMae for a chine re-glassing, bottom job and painting of the
> > my billing rate that is well over the $5,000 being asked for thethat cannot
> > OldShoe and
> > equal to what I paid for EstherMae two years ago. This is love
> > be expressed in $. In my case there is nothing even remotely likea
> > Tennessee available on the commercial market and for my wife andme it is
> > the perfect boat for where we are monetarily and geographically.I have
> > recognized that this is my hobby and lurking here and a coupleother sites
> > has given me the confidence to grind the chines and re-glass. Iam totally
> > excited about starting the next phase, which is to open the bowand
> > reconfigure the cabin. But for now I want to ride her around andenjoy the
> > new paint scheme, clean bottom and stainless prop. I too amhaving the
> > timeOn
> > of my life with Esther Mae.
> >
> > See ya on the water!
> >
> > Caloosarat
> >
> > _____
> >
> > From:bolger@yahoogroups.com<mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com>
> > [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com<mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com>]
> > Behalf Ofpay and
> > lancasterdennis
> >
> > Used home-built wood boats are worth what people are willing to
> > often, it is not as much as cost to build. . I'm sure not inreally don't
> > this for the re-sale value. I'm doing the project for me. . I
> > care howand I'm
> > much it costs me to build. I'm doing exactly what I want to do
> > a happy camper and having the time of my life!second
> >
> > Dennis
> >
> > -- In bolger@yahoogroups. <mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com> com,
> > <martin.me.roberts@> wrote:
> > > I feel that the Old Shoe is worth $5000, but if you look at
> > hand prices for these type of boats they seem to be much muchlower
> > that they cost.materials
> > Martin
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> If anyone thinks it is somehow unfair to only get the cost of
> out of a home built boat consider the other option. Buy a $20,000worth
> factory built glass boat keep it 10 years and it will likely be
> $3000 to $7000. If you have to burn your boat after some time youare
> still likely $10,000 ahead and you had the pleasure of building itand
> that in many ways for me is a greater pleasure even than using it.
>
> Doug
>
Chester Young wrote:
out of a home built boat consider the other option. Buy a $20,000
factory built glass boat keep it 10 years and it will likely be worth
$3000 to $7000. If you have to burn your boat after some time you are
still likely $10,000 ahead and you had the pleasure of building it and
that in many ways for me is a greater pleasure even than using it.
Doug
>If anyone thinks it is somehow unfair to only get the cost of materials
> I will second what Dennis said. I have just put over 60 hours into
> EstherMae for a chine re-glassing, bottom job and painting of the hull. At
> my billing rate that is well over the $5,000 being asked for the
> OldShoe and
> equal to what I paid for EstherMae two years ago. This is love that cannot
> be expressed in $. In my case there is nothing even remotely like a
> Tennessee available on the commercial market and for my wife and me it is
> the perfect boat for where we are monetarily and geographically. I have
> recognized that this is my hobby and lurking here and a couple other sites
> has given me the confidence to grind the chines and re-glass. I am totally
> excited about starting the next phase, which is to open the bow and
> reconfigure the cabin. But for now I want to ride her around and enjoy the
> new paint scheme, clean bottom and stainless prop. I too am having the
> time
> of my life with Esther Mae.
>
> See ya on the water!
>
> Caloosarat
>
> _____
>
> From:bolger@yahoogroups.com<mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com<mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com>] On
> Behalf Of
> lancasterdennis
>
> Used home-built wood boats are worth what people are willing to pay and
> often, it is not as much as cost to build. . I'm sure not in
> this for the re-sale value. I'm doing the project for me. . I really don't
> care how
> much it costs me to build. I'm doing exactly what I want to do and I'm
> a happy camper and having the time of my life!
>
> Dennis
>
> -- In bolger@yahoogroups. <mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com> com,
> <martin.me.roberts@...> wrote:
> > I feel that the Old Shoe is worth $5000, but if you look at second
> hand prices for these type of boats they seem to be much much lower
> that they cost.
> Martin
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
out of a home built boat consider the other option. Buy a $20,000
factory built glass boat keep it 10 years and it will likely be worth
$3000 to $7000. If you have to burn your boat after some time you are
still likely $10,000 ahead and you had the pleasure of building it and
that in many ways for me is a greater pleasure even than using it.
Doug
-And that folks, is what its all about. Plus, another Bolger boat is
being kept alive! Good on ya!
Dennis
-- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Chester Young" <chester@...> wrote:
being kept alive! Good on ya!
Dennis
-- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Chester Young" <chester@...> wrote:
>hull. At
> I will second what Dennis said. I have just put over 60 hours into
> EstherMae for a chine re-glassing, bottom job and painting of the
> my billing rate that is well over the $5,000 being asked for theOldShoe and
> equal to what I paid for EstherMae two years ago. This is lovethat cannot
> be expressed in $. In my case there is nothing even remotely like ait is
> Tennessee available on the commercial market and for my wife and me
> the perfect boat for where we are monetarily and geographically. Ihave
> recognized that this is my hobby and lurking here and a coupleother sites
> has given me the confidence to grind the chines and re-glass. I amtotally
> excited about starting the next phase, which is to open the bow andenjoy the
> reconfigure the cabin. But for now I want to ride her around and
> new paint scheme, clean bottom and stainless prop. I too am havingthe time
> of my life with Esther Mae.Behalf Of
>
>
>
> See ya on the water!
>
>
>
> Caloosarat
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On
> lancasterdennisand
>
> Used home-built wood boats are worth what people are willing to pay
> often, it is not as much as cost to build. . I'm sure not inreally don't
> this for the re-sale value. I'm doing the project for me. . I
> care howI'm
> much it costs me to build. I'm doing exactly what I want to do and
> a happy camper and having the time of my life!second
>
> Dennis
>
>
>
>
>
> -- In bolger@yahoogroups. <mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com> com,
> <martin.me.roberts@> wrote:
> > I feel that the Old Shoe is worth $5000, but if you look at
> hand prices for these type of boats they seem to be much much lower
> that they cost.
> Martin
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
I will second what Dennis said. I have just put over 60 hours into
EstherMae for a chine re-glassing, bottom job and painting of the hull. At
my billing rate that is well over the $5,000 being asked for the OldShoe and
equal to what I paid for EstherMae two years ago. This is love that cannot
be expressed in $. In my case there is nothing even remotely like a
Tennessee available on the commercial market and for my wife and me it is
the perfect boat for where we are monetarily and geographically. I have
recognized that this is my hobby and lurking here and a couple other sites
has given me the confidence to grind the chines and re-glass. I am totally
excited about starting the next phase, which is to open the bow and
reconfigure the cabin. But for now I want to ride her around and enjoy the
new paint scheme, clean bottom and stainless prop. I too am having the time
of my life with Esther Mae.
See ya on the water!
Caloosarat
_____
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
lancasterdennis
Used home-built wood boats are worth what people are willing to pay and
often, it is not as much as cost to build. . I'm sure not in
this for the re-sale value. I'm doing the project for me. . I really don't
care how
much it costs me to build. I'm doing exactly what I want to do and I'm
a happy camper and having the time of my life!
Dennis
-- In bolger@yahoogroups. <mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com> com,
<martin.me.roberts@...> wrote:
that they cost.
Martin
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
EstherMae for a chine re-glassing, bottom job and painting of the hull. At
my billing rate that is well over the $5,000 being asked for the OldShoe and
equal to what I paid for EstherMae two years ago. This is love that cannot
be expressed in $. In my case there is nothing even remotely like a
Tennessee available on the commercial market and for my wife and me it is
the perfect boat for where we are monetarily and geographically. I have
recognized that this is my hobby and lurking here and a couple other sites
has given me the confidence to grind the chines and re-glass. I am totally
excited about starting the next phase, which is to open the bow and
reconfigure the cabin. But for now I want to ride her around and enjoy the
new paint scheme, clean bottom and stainless prop. I too am having the time
of my life with Esther Mae.
See ya on the water!
Caloosarat
_____
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
lancasterdennis
Used home-built wood boats are worth what people are willing to pay and
often, it is not as much as cost to build. . I'm sure not in
this for the re-sale value. I'm doing the project for me. . I really don't
care how
much it costs me to build. I'm doing exactly what I want to do and I'm
a happy camper and having the time of my life!
Dennis
-- In bolger@yahoogroups. <mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com> com,
<martin.me.roberts@...> wrote:
> I feel that the Old Shoe is worth $5000, but if you look at secondhand prices for these type of boats they seem to be much much lower
that they cost.
Martin
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-Yup, very true Martin,
Used home-built wood boats are worth what people are willing to pay and
often, it is not as much as cost to build. I think it takes someone
who is familiar with the design and what it takes to build a particular
boat, who might pay a bit more than the going rate. I'm sure not in
this for the re-sale value. I'm doing the project for me. It will be
passed on to family when I die or be sold. I really don't care how
much it costs me to build. I'm doing exactly what I want to do and I'm
a happy camper and having the time of my life!
regards,
Dennis
-- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, <martin.me.roberts@...> wrote:
was £6000. If you look in the 4 sale group you will see it for sale a
great deal less than that.
that they cost.
Used home-built wood boats are worth what people are willing to pay and
often, it is not as much as cost to build. I think it takes someone
who is familiar with the design and what it takes to build a particular
boat, who might pay a bit more than the going rate. I'm sure not in
this for the re-sale value. I'm doing the project for me. It will be
passed on to family when I die or be sold. I really don't care how
much it costs me to build. I'm doing exactly what I want to do and I'm
a happy camper and having the time of my life!
regards,
Dennis
-- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, <martin.me.roberts@...> wrote:
>builder gave me his plans and receipts. The cost of materials alone
> I have a micro built back in the late 1990's When I bought it the
was £6000. If you look in the 4 sale group you will see it for sale a
great deal less than that.
>hand prices for these type of boats they seem to be much much lower
> I feel that the Old Shoe is worth $5000, but if you look at second
that they cost.
>
>
>
> Martin
>
I have a micro built back in the late 1990's When I bought it the builder gave me his plans and receipts. The cost of materials alone was £6000. If you look in the 4 sale group you will see it for sale a great deal less than that.
I feel that the Old Shoe is worth $5000, but if you look at second hand prices for these type of boats they seem to be much much lower that they cost.
Martin
I feel that the Old Shoe is worth $5000, but if you look at second hand prices for these type of boats they seem to be much much lower that they cost.
Martin