Re: [bolger] Re: Bolger's version of Egret
Hi Bob, "Does that ring a bell with anyone?" No, but it sounds wild & I'd love to see that. Good luck, I hope you or someone else finds and posts it. Thanks, Mike
--- On Mon, 4/28/08, Bob Johnson <dredbob@...> wrote:
> From: Bob Johnson <dredbob@...>
> Subject: [bolger] Re: Bolger's version of Egret
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Monday, April 28, 2008, 4:19 AM
> You know, I'm starting to think that maybe I could have
> conflated a
> couple of boats in my mind, but the thing is, I have such
> a vivid
> memory of the drawing and even the write-up, though I
> don't really
> remember too many details. The thing that I do remember
> clearly,
> because it was the most distinctive feature, was the motor
> well and the
> rudder. The rudder was hung outboard on the sternpost, was
> a sort of
> shoal barndoor style, I think with an end plate. There was
> a very
> short, shallow skeg in front of it. The motor well
> aperture was right
> in front of the skeg, and the distinctive detail was that
> the motor
> mount was pivoted from behind the motor and the well
> opening, so that
> the motor could be lifted up vertically, the aperture
> plugged, then the
> motor lower unit tilted back and the motor laid down in
> place. The
> pivoting mount and the well occupied all of the space in
> the stern aft
> of the cockpit.
>
> Does that ring a bell with anyone?
>
> Bob
>
> ----
>
> > 2-5 years. That recent? You may have your wires
> crossed with the Iain
> > Oughtred "Egret" that came out about 2-3
> years ago. For "Bolgeresque"
> > there's the cat yawl rig rather than original
> ketch (but then there's a
> > huge roach in the battened main). There's also
> twin unobtrusive
> > centreboards, though I don't know that as designed
> they are really so
> > terribly "Bolger".
> >
> > Another crossing wire is that Oughtred is a long
> professed admirer of
> > Bolger design and a big fan of the "Black
> Skimmer", and Bolger offers
> > Oughtred as a premier lapstrake, and other trad wooden
> boatbuilding,
> > how-to reference.
>
>
> > Ruel Parker has an Egret in his "the Sharpie
> Book" Boats are built
> > almost as easily as a Bolger boat. He gives a table
> of offsets, and a
> > very small plan, but lofting a sharpie is not too
> difficult a task.
>
>
> > Or, you may have misremembered that Bolger re-created
> the plans of an
> > Albert Strange yawl. The sounds like the same story,
> but a completely
> > different boat.
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
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You know, I'm starting to think that maybe I could have conflated a
couple of boats in my mind, but the thing is, I have such a vivid
memory of the drawing and even the write-up, though I don't really
remember too many details. The thing that I do remember clearly,
because it was the most distinctive feature, was the motor well and the
rudder. The rudder was hung outboard on the sternpost, was a sort of
shoal barndoor style, I think with an end plate. There was a very
short, shallow skeg in front of it. The motor well aperture was right
in front of the skeg, and the distinctive detail was that the motor
mount was pivoted from behind the motor and the well opening, so that
the motor could be lifted up vertically, the aperture plugged, then the
motor lower unit tilted back and the motor laid down in place. The
pivoting mount and the well occupied all of the space in the stern aft
of the cockpit.
Does that ring a bell with anyone?
Bob
----
couple of boats in my mind, but the thing is, I have such a vivid
memory of the drawing and even the write-up, though I don't really
remember too many details. The thing that I do remember clearly,
because it was the most distinctive feature, was the motor well and the
rudder. The rudder was hung outboard on the sternpost, was a sort of
shoal barndoor style, I think with an end plate. There was a very
short, shallow skeg in front of it. The motor well aperture was right
in front of the skeg, and the distinctive detail was that the motor
mount was pivoted from behind the motor and the well opening, so that
the motor could be lifted up vertically, the aperture plugged, then the
motor lower unit tilted back and the motor laid down in place. The
pivoting mount and the well occupied all of the space in the stern aft
of the cockpit.
Does that ring a bell with anyone?
Bob
----
> 2-5 years. That recent? You may have your wires crossed with the Iain
> Oughtred "Egret" that came out about 2-3 years ago. For "Bolgeresque"
> there's the cat yawl rig rather than original ketch (but then there's a
> huge roach in the battened main). There's also twin unobtrusive
> centreboards, though I don't know that as designed they are really so
> terribly "Bolger".
>
> Another crossing wire is that Oughtred is a long professed admirer of
> Bolger design and a big fan of the "Black Skimmer", and Bolger offers
> Oughtred as a premier lapstrake, and other trad wooden boatbuilding,
> how-to reference.
> Ruel Parker has an Egret in his "the Sharpie Book" Boats are built
> almost as easily as a Bolger boat. He gives a table of offsets, and a
> very small plan, but lofting a sharpie is not too difficult a task.
> Or, you may have misremembered that Bolger re-created the plans of an
> Albert Strange yawl. The sounds like the same story, but a completely
> different boat.
>
On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 7:20 AM, Bob Johnson <dredbob@...> wrote:
Wenda"? (design #532, MAIB V18-N10) This is a similar elegant double
ender, though a yawl and not a ketch like Munroe's Egret. ~~~~
>Could you be remembering instead the canoe yawl "Albert Strange -
> Can anyone remember where PCBs version of Egret was presented?
Wenda"? (design #532, MAIB V18-N10) This is a similar elegant double
ender, though a yawl and not a ketch like Munroe's Egret. ~~~~
> 2-5 years. That recent? You may have your wires crossed with the IainOr, you may have misremembered that Bolger re-created the plans of an
> Oughtred "Egret" that came out about 2-3 years ago.
Albert Strange yawl. The sounds like the same story, but a completely
different boat.
Ruel Parker has an Egret in his "the Sharpie Book" Boats are built almost as easily as a Bolger boat. He gives a table of offsets, and a very small plan, but lofting a sharpie is not too difficult a task.
----- Original Message ----
From: graeme19121984 <graeme19121984@...>
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 9:39:23 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Bolger's version of Egret
----- Original Message ----
From: graeme19121984 <graeme19121984@...>
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 9:39:23 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Bolger's version of Egret
--- In bolger@yahoogroups. com, Bob Johnson <dredbob@... > wrote:
> sometimes in the last 2-5 years it seems like. As I recall it, there
> was a nifty well for the outboard that allowed the motor to be
> retracted fully and the aperture closed off, and there were other
> Bolgeresque touches, but otherwise it was a double ended Egret >
sharpie.
2-5 years. That recent? You may have your wires crossed with the Iain
Oughtred "Egret" that came out about 2-3 years ago. For "Bolgeresque"
there's the cat yawl rig rather than original ketch (but then there's a
huge roach in the battened main). There's also twin unobtrusive
centreboards, though I don't know that as designed they are really so
terribly "Bolger".
Another crossing wire is that Oughtred is a long professed admirer of
Bolger design and a big fan of the "Black Skimmer", and Bolger offers
Oughtred as a premier lapstrake, and other trad wooden boatbuilding,
how-to reference.
hth
Graeme
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--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bob Johnson <dredbob@...> wrote:
2-5 years. That recent? You may have your wires crossed with the Iain
Oughtred "Egret" that came out about 2-3 years ago. For "Bolgeresque"
there's the cat yawl rig rather than original ketch (but then there's a
huge roach in the battened main). There's also twin unobtrusive
centreboards, though I don't know that as designed they are really so
terribly "Bolger".
Another crossing wire is that Oughtred is a long professed admirer of
Bolger design and a big fan of the "Black Skimmer", and Bolger offers
Oughtred as a premier lapstrake, and other trad wooden boatbuilding,
how-to reference.
hth
Graeme
> sometimes in the last 2-5 years it seems like. As I recall it, theresharpie.
> was a nifty well for the outboard that allowed the motor to be
> retracted fully and the aperture closed off, and there were other
> Bolgeresque touches, but otherwise it was a double ended Egret >
2-5 years. That recent? You may have your wires crossed with the Iain
Oughtred "Egret" that came out about 2-3 years ago. For "Bolgeresque"
there's the cat yawl rig rather than original ketch (but then there's a
huge roach in the battened main). There's also twin unobtrusive
centreboards, though I don't know that as designed they are really so
terribly "Bolger".
Another crossing wire is that Oughtred is a long professed admirer of
Bolger design and a big fan of the "Black Skimmer", and Bolger offers
Oughtred as a premier lapstrake, and other trad wooden boatbuilding,
how-to reference.
hth
Graeme
I appreciate these replies, but I'm referring to an actual Egret
interpretation by Bolger that was specifically done for a client to who
wanted it. It's not in any of the books, I must have seen it in MAIB
sometimes in the last 2-5 years it seems like. As I recall it, there
was a nifty well for the outboard that allowed the motor to be
retracted fully and the aperture closed off, and there were other
Bolgeresque touches, but otherwise it was a double ended Egret sharpie.
I'm not planning on building one, I just want to find it again, as
someone over on the WoodenBoat forum is looking for Egret plans.
I suppose I'll have to dive into my pile of MAIBs this weekend and see
if I can dig it up.
Bob, who's beginning to think he hallucinated it:)
interpretation by Bolger that was specifically done for a client to who
wanted it. It's not in any of the books, I must have seen it in MAIB
sometimes in the last 2-5 years it seems like. As I recall it, there
was a nifty well for the outboard that allowed the motor to be
retracted fully and the aperture closed off, and there were other
Bolgeresque touches, but otherwise it was a double ended Egret sharpie.
I'm not planning on building one, I just want to find it again, as
someone over on the WoodenBoat forum is looking for Egret plans.
I suppose I'll have to dive into my pile of MAIBs this weekend and see
if I can dig it up.
Bob, who's beginning to think he hallucinated it:)
> Posted by: "Ned Asplundh"nasplundh@...nasplundh
> Date: Thu Apr 24, 2008 11:48 am ((PDT))
>
> Boats with an Open Mind, p. 257, shows a cartoon of a Presto sharpie
> (round-bilged), not an Egret. Is that the boat you had in mind?
>
> Posted by: "graeme19121984"graeme19121984@...
> graeme19121984
> Date: Thu Apr 24, 2008 11:08 pm ((PDT))
>
> Perhaps you're after "Skillygalee" (29ft), a stretched "Black Skimmer".
> Designed for a Mr Fulk, who was thinking of a Chapelle "Egret". 30-ODD
> Boats, Chapter 13.
>
>
> Posted by: "pvanderwaart"pvanderwaart@...pvanderwaart
> Date: Fri Apr 25, 2008 9:28 am ((PDT))
>
>
> Bolger is not a fan of the Monroe Egret. He wrote (I think in the
> write-up of Skillygallee) that Black Skimmer would sail rings around
> Egret "blow high, blow low." I suspect, but I don't know, that Bolger
> construction would be easier than the construction of the Monroe Egret
> plans offered by Woodenboat. You might look into Black Gauntlet II
> (similar in concept to Black Skimmer, but about 33' with a more modern
> rig) if you want a real sharpie that is a cruising boat. Bolger had a
> boat somewhat like Black Gauntlet that he sailed around Massachusetts
> Bay and refers to in his books, but I forget the name.
>
> You might also consider the Advanced Sharpie plans of Jessie Cooper
> and the AS-29. The biggest difference in the Advanced Sharpies is a
> lot more freeboard. They also have more beam than a conventional
> sharpie.
>
> Having said that, Bolger has designed boats that are more Egret-like
> than those, most notably his own "Rattlesnake" which was written up in
> MAIB. I'm pretty sure he does not sell those plans for some
> combination of them being lost and him thinking the newer designs are
> a lot better.
>
>
There is also Bolger Cartoon #11, A Presto-style Cruiser which appeared in the March 1984 edition of Small Boat Journal.
JohnT
JohnT
----- Original Message -----
From: Howard Stephenson
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 4:51 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Bolger's version of Egret
A chapter in "Folding Schooner" features Blackgauntlet II. There is
what looks like a complete set of plans (reduced to fit the page),
and drawings and offsets for the hull of a round-bilged version that
Bolger says follows "the form that Commodore Munro evolved out of
the working sharpie".
He says the chine version's performance would be degraded compared
with the round-bilged version, although it would be easier to build.
Blackgauntlet was designed as an improvement on a sharpie he owned
named Pointer that won four match races with a Pearson Triton. And I
guess Blackgauntlet II was meant to be an improvement on its
predecesor.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "pvanderwaart" <pvanderwaart@...>
wrote:
>
> > Can anyone remember where PCBs version of Egret was presented? I
> > assume it was in MAIBoats, but what issue? I looked through the
> > files in the various bolger groups but couldn't find it.
>
> Bolger is not a fan of the Monroe Egret. He wrote (I think in the
> write-up of Skillygallee) that Black Skimmer would sail rings
around
> Egret "blow high, blow low." I suspect, but I don't know, that
Bolger
> construction would be easier than the construction of the Monroe
Egret
> plans offered by Woodenboat. You might look into Black Gauntlet II
> (similar in concept to Black Skimmer, but about 33' with a more
modern
> rig) if you want a real sharpie that is a cruising boat. Bolger
had a
> boat somewhat like Black Gauntlet that he sailed around
Massachusetts
> Bay and refers to in his books, but I forget the name.
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Some interesting info here:
http://www.woodenboat.com/forum//archive/index.php/t-15613.html
V/R
Chris
http://www.woodenboat.com/forum//archive/index.php/t-15613.html
V/R
Chris
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
According to Roger C. Taylor, Egret is a successor to Presto. The
difference between the Presto hull-shape and that of the round-
bilget BII is mainly that Presto has more topside flare (10'6"
overall beam and 9'1" waterline beam)and a much longer overhang aft.
Dimensions are 41'/35'6" x 10'6" x 2'6". It's a centreboard ketch
with 878 sq.ft of sail.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Christopher C. Wetherill"
<wetherillc@...> wrote:
difference between the Presto hull-shape and that of the round-
bilget BII is mainly that Presto has more topside flare (10'6"
overall beam and 9'1" waterline beam)and a much longer overhang aft.
Dimensions are 41'/35'6" x 10'6" x 2'6". It's a centreboard ketch
with 878 sq.ft of sail.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Christopher C. Wetherill"
<wetherillc@...> wrote:
>Blackgauntlet
> This is the "Presto" shape referred to elsewhere in this thread.
>
> From what I can find, Egret was between Blackskimmer and
> II in length and about the breadth of Blackgauntlet II. Thedifference
> is that Egret had somewhat more rocker aft a "New Haven rudder"and
> centerboard, was double ended, and had a cat schooner rigsomewhat like
> Jon Kolb's variant on Light Schooner. The closest thing I haveseen in
> my limited exposure is Singlehander Schooner. The underwaterprofile is
> wrong, however, to say nothing of the size.
This is the "Presto" shape referred to elsewhere in this thread.
From what I can find, Egret was between Blackskimmer and Blackgauntlet
II in length and about the breadth of Blackgauntlet II. The difference
is that Egret had somewhat more rocker aft a "New Haven rudder" and
centerboard, was double ended, and had a cat schooner rig somewhat like
Jon Kolb's variant on Light Schooner. The closest thing I have seen in
my limited exposure is Singlehander Schooner. The underwater profile is
wrong, however, to say nothing of the size.
V/R
Chris
Howard Stephenson wrote:
From what I can find, Egret was between Blackskimmer and Blackgauntlet
II in length and about the breadth of Blackgauntlet II. The difference
is that Egret had somewhat more rocker aft a "New Haven rudder" and
centerboard, was double ended, and had a cat schooner rig somewhat like
Jon Kolb's variant on Light Schooner. The closest thing I have seen in
my limited exposure is Singlehander Schooner. The underwater profile is
wrong, however, to say nothing of the size.
V/R
Chris
Howard Stephenson wrote:
> A chapter in "Folding Schooner" features Blackgauntlet II. There is[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> what looks like a complete set of plans (reduced to fit the page),
> and drawings and offsets for the hull of a round-bilged version that
> Bolger says follows "the form that Commodore Munro evolved out of
> the working sharpie".
>
A chapter in "Folding Schooner" features Blackgauntlet II. There is
what looks like a complete set of plans (reduced to fit the page),
and drawings and offsets for the hull of a round-bilged version that
Bolger says follows "the form that Commodore Munro evolved out of
the working sharpie".
He says the chine version's performance would be degraded compared
with the round-bilged version, although it would be easier to build.
Blackgauntlet was designed as an improvement on a sharpie he owned
named Pointer that won four match races with a Pearson Triton. And I
guess Blackgauntlet II was meant to be an improvement on its
predecesor.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "pvanderwaart" <pvanderwaart@...>
wrote:
what looks like a complete set of plans (reduced to fit the page),
and drawings and offsets for the hull of a round-bilged version that
Bolger says follows "the form that Commodore Munro evolved out of
the working sharpie".
He says the chine version's performance would be degraded compared
with the round-bilged version, although it would be easier to build.
Blackgauntlet was designed as an improvement on a sharpie he owned
named Pointer that won four match races with a Pearson Triton. And I
guess Blackgauntlet II was meant to be an improvement on its
predecesor.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "pvanderwaart" <pvanderwaart@...>
wrote:
>around
> > Can anyone remember where PCBs version of Egret was presented? I
> > assume it was in MAIBoats, but what issue? I looked through the
> > files in the various bolger groups but couldn't find it.
>
> Bolger is not a fan of the Monroe Egret. He wrote (I think in the
> write-up of Skillygallee) that Black Skimmer would sail rings
> Egret "blow high, blow low." I suspect, but I don't know, thatBolger
> construction would be easier than the construction of the MonroeEgret
> plans offered by Woodenboat. You might look into Black Gauntlet IImodern
> (similar in concept to Black Skimmer, but about 33' with a more
> rig) if you want a real sharpie that is a cruising boat. Bolgerhad a
> boat somewhat like Black Gauntlet that he sailed aroundMassachusetts
> Bay and refers to in his books, but I forget the name.
> Can anyone remember where PCBs version of Egret was presented? IBolger is not a fan of the Monroe Egret. He wrote (I think in the
> assume it was in MAIBoats, but what issue? I looked through the
> files in the various bolger groups but couldn't find it.
write-up of Skillygallee) that Black Skimmer would sail rings around
Egret "blow high, blow low." I suspect, but I don't know, that Bolger
construction would be easier than the construction of the Monroe Egret
plans offered by Woodenboat. You might look into Black Gauntlet II
(similar in concept to Black Skimmer, but about 33' with a more modern
rig) if you want a real sharpie that is a cruising boat. Bolger had a
boat somewhat like Black Gauntlet that he sailed around Massachusetts
Bay and refers to in his books, but I forget the name.
You might also consider the Advanced Sharpie plans of Jessie Cooper
and the AS-29. The biggest difference in the Advanced Sharpies is a
lot more freeboard. They also have more beam than a conventional sharpie.
Having said that, Bolger has designed boats that are more Egret-like
than those, most notably his own "Rattlesnake" which was written up in
MAIB. I'm pretty sure he does not sell those plans for some
combination of them being lost and him thinking the newer designs are
a lot better.
> 30-ODD Boats, Chapter 13.From the group designs Index:
Skillygalee - MAIB V.14-No.16 1/1/97
Graeme
Perhaps you're after "Skillygalee" (29ft), a stretched "Black Skimmer".
Designed for a Mr Fulk, who was thinking of a Chapelle "Egret". 30-ODD
Boats, Chapter 13.
Designed for a Mr Fulk, who was thinking of a Chapelle "Egret". 30-ODD
Boats, Chapter 13.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Johnson" <dredbob@...> wrote:
>
> Can anyone remember where PCBs version of Egret was presented? I
> assume it was in MAIBoats, but what issue? I looked through the
> files in the various bolger groups but couldn't find it.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bob
>
Boats with an Open Mind, p. 257, shows a cartoon of a Presto sharpie (round-bilged), not an Egret. Is that the boat you had in mind?
---------------------------------
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Can anyone remember where PCBs version of Egret was presented? I
assume it was in MAIBoats, but what issue? I looked through the
files in the various bolger groups but couldn't find it.
Thanks,
Bob
assume it was in MAIBoats, but what issue? I looked through the
files in the various bolger groups but couldn't find it.
Thanks,
Bob