Re: [bolger] Special Olympics Bateau (was Re:Naval Jelly isometric)
One more Bolger bateau is in SBJ #49 June/July 86 Cartoon #25
"Sliding-Seat Bateau"
This one is a19'4" x 4'1" "long surf dory or light logging bateau"
taking one or two Martin Oarmaster units.
Bruce Hallman wrote:
"Sliding-Seat Bateau"
This one is a19'4" x 4'1" "long surf dory or light logging bateau"
taking one or two Martin Oarmaster units.
Bruce Hallman wrote:
> Good call, I had totally forgotten about the Special Olympics Bateau.
>
> Isometric here:
>
>http://flickr.com/photos/hallman/2448888173/
>
> And, I agree that the only place this appeared is in that old Common
> Sense Designs catalog.
>
> On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 5:11 PM, Mark Albanese <marka@...> wrote:
>
>> Unless built in two sections, it's also a bit of a problem for many
>> to store.
>> For a somewhat smaller version, there's the Special Olympics Bateau:
>>
>> 25' 6" x 4' 10"
>> Capacity 4 adults
>> 6 1/2' oars
>> 7 sheets 1/2" ply, though could be built much lighter
>>
>> It's _really_ hard to find a pic of one of those.
>> Bruce? did you scan that page from the Common Sense Design Catalog? I
>> can't find any of it in your Flikr or Webshots stuff.
>>
>> The basic idea is in at least four sizes: Yellow Leaf, 15'; the pedal
>> boat, Madeline, 19'; Bateau, 25'; Naval Jelly, 31'.
>> Mark
>>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
When I was a kid we ad a 40' Chesapeake crabber that was cross-planked
like a skipjack with about 15deg of deadrise. I came to understand
that this can be referred to as a "Chesapeake Bay Deadrise" hull. My
parents had it modified on the Chester River by a man named Stanley
vanSandt. During that time, he also built a small skiff for his own
use. It was about 20' long, cross planked, and had no keel, thus no
deadrise. He called it a Bateau.
The other interesting variant was the yawl boat. Working skipjacks were
prohibited engines so that they could not dredge the oyster beds.
Instead they carried a boat in davits that was roughly as long as the
width of the transom and as wide and deep as needed to float a large
engine and prop. This was lashed to the transom and used for the motive
power when needed.
V/R
Chris
Bob Johnson wrote:
like a skipjack with about 15deg of deadrise. I came to understand
that this can be referred to as a "Chesapeake Bay Deadrise" hull. My
parents had it modified on the Chester River by a man named Stanley
vanSandt. During that time, he also built a small skiff for his own
use. It was about 20' long, cross planked, and had no keel, thus no
deadrise. He called it a Bateau.
The other interesting variant was the yawl boat. Working skipjacks were
prohibited engines so that they could not dredge the oyster beds.
Instead they carried a boat in davits that was roughly as long as the
width of the transom and as wide and deep as needed to float a large
engine and prop. This was lashed to the transom and used for the motive
power when needed.
V/R
Chris
Bob Johnson wrote:
> On Monday, April 28, 2008, at 06:01 PM, Doug wrote:[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>> I always thought a Bateau had deadrise like a skipjack?
>>
>
>
> The use of the word batteau (bateau, batto, battoe, etc) for the
> Chesapeake skipjack is the exception rather than the other way around.
> That is, most of the time the term is used in the history of American
> small craft it has been in reference to a flat bottomed, usually double
> ended craft. For a good historical back ground, read the first couple
> of chapters in Chapelle's _American Small Sailing Craft_ and also see
> John Gardner's _The Dory Book_.
>
>
For a laugh, flip though the first few pages of these google images
for the many types of boat called bateau.
http://tinyurl.com/5hlq47
I don't find Bolger's there. Nor through the Philadelphia SO.
Mark
for the many types of boat called bateau.
http://tinyurl.com/5hlq47
I don't find Bolger's there. Nor through the Philadelphia SO.
Mark
On Apr 28, 2008, at 5:36 PM, Douglas Pollard wrote:
> OK That sheds some light on the subject In Virginia there only
> three
> hull types here on the bay where most folks are concernd. sharpies,
> log
> canoes and Bateaus. So they are all bateaus. Thanks,
> Doug
>
Bruce,
Thanks for the fine isos and for sending me the scan. That's one
sleek little boat.
I thought fair use might include posting to Bolger cartoons.
w/ fingers crossed,http://tinyurl.com/5nntvy
That catalog is a rare item. ( I'm saving mine to supplement a meager
Social Security someday. )
Anyone could build the boat from what's shown, once they worked out
the scale. Since it was not published otherwise, the fifty would be due.
Mark
Thanks for the fine isos and for sending me the scan. That's one
sleek little boat.
I thought fair use might include posting to Bolger cartoons.
w/ fingers crossed,http://tinyurl.com/5nntvy
That catalog is a rare item. ( I'm saving mine to supplement a meager
Social Security someday. )
Anyone could build the boat from what's shown, once they worked out
the scale. Since it was not published otherwise, the fifty would be due.
Mark
On Apr 28, 2008, at 10:18 AM, Bruce Hallman wrote:
> Good call, I had totally forgotten about the Special Olympics Bateau.
>
> Isometric here:
>
>http://flickr.com/photos/hallman/2448888173/
>
> And, I agree that the only place this appeared is in that old Common
> Sense Designs catalog.
>
>
On Monday, April 28, 2008, at 06:01 PM, Doug wrote:
Chesapeake skipjack is the exception rather than the other way around.
That is, most of the time the term is used in the history of American
small craft it has been in reference to a flat bottomed, usually double
ended craft. For a good historical back ground, read the first couple
of chapters in Chapelle's _American Small Sailing Craft_ and also see
John Gardner's _The Dory Book_.
Basically, batteau is just a French word for boat, and it's use in this
country goes right back to the earliest European occupation with the
French fur traders, the voyageurs, etc. Batteaus were built to use in
place of the more fragile bark canoes, and these were flat bottomed,
double enders. Some were as long as 50 feet or more. They came to be
used by both the French and then the English through out the waterways
of the Northeast and even down the Ohio and the Mississippi. Both
sides made great use of them in the French and Indian war. John
Gardner puts forth the thesis that it was the large number of
boatbuilders employed building the batteaus for both sides, who, upon
returning home after the war, bringing the style of construction and
hull form with them, gave rise to the rapid proliferation and
development of the dory in America.
The term has been used in various times and places through out the
history of American small craft to refer to several types of craft.
Along the Ohio and the Mississippi waterways, it was not uncommon for
any flat bottomed boat or skiff, whether pointy bowed or what we would
now call a John Boat, to be called a batteau, by some old time
rivermen. Down in the swamps of the lower Mississippi delta it was
used to refer to a dugout, and the plank descendant, the pirogue.
Which, by the way, was just another word, this time from the Indies,
meaning boat.
Bob
> I always thought a Bateau had deadrise like a skipjack?The use of the word batteau (bateau, batto, battoe, etc) for the
Chesapeake skipjack is the exception rather than the other way around.
That is, most of the time the term is used in the history of American
small craft it has been in reference to a flat bottomed, usually double
ended craft. For a good historical back ground, read the first couple
of chapters in Chapelle's _American Small Sailing Craft_ and also see
John Gardner's _The Dory Book_.
Basically, batteau is just a French word for boat, and it's use in this
country goes right back to the earliest European occupation with the
French fur traders, the voyageurs, etc. Batteaus were built to use in
place of the more fragile bark canoes, and these were flat bottomed,
double enders. Some were as long as 50 feet or more. They came to be
used by both the French and then the English through out the waterways
of the Northeast and even down the Ohio and the Mississippi. Both
sides made great use of them in the French and Indian war. John
Gardner puts forth the thesis that it was the large number of
boatbuilders employed building the batteaus for both sides, who, upon
returning home after the war, bringing the style of construction and
hull form with them, gave rise to the rapid proliferation and
development of the dory in America.
The term has been used in various times and places through out the
history of American small craft to refer to several types of craft.
Along the Ohio and the Mississippi waterways, it was not uncommon for
any flat bottomed boat or skiff, whether pointy bowed or what we would
now call a John Boat, to be called a batteau, by some old time
rivermen. Down in the swamps of the lower Mississippi delta it was
used to refer to a dugout, and the plank descendant, the pirogue.
Which, by the way, was just another word, this time from the Indies,
meaning boat.
Bob
OK That sheds some light on the subject In Virginia there only three
hull types here on the bay where most folks are concernd. sharpies, log
canoes and Bateaus. So they are all bateaus. Thanks,
Doug
CSC wrote:
hull types here on the bay where most folks are concernd. sharpies, log
canoes and Bateaus. So they are all bateaus. Thanks,
Doug
CSC wrote:
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com<mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com>,
> Douglas Pollard <Dougpol1@...> wrote:
> > Sorry folks this last e-mail hardly makes sense I got in a big hurry
> > writing, I always thought a Bateau had deadrise like a skipjack?
> > Doug
>
> Bateau just means "boat" in French. Some boats in the Chesapeake region
> are called "bateaus" and they typically have deadrise. But some boats
> from Louisiana are "bateaus" and they are flat-bottomed.
>
> Bateau is not specific to a hull design, as, say, a "skipjack"
> or "sharpie" would be.
>
> Discussion of rigs earlier should be a tip-off, all boat design names,
> rig or hull, are generally "fuzzy sets" unless commercially controlled
> or part of a one-design group. There are few "definitive" definitions.
>
>
Could be wrong, but bateau, like barbecue, covers an astonishing array of things. In this case, I think PCB was probably thinking of a 'lumberman's bateau" which was a flat bottomed, double ended boat with a strong sheer. They were used to navigate rivers filled with rapids and were functional ancesters of all kinds of whitewater rowing boats. Howard Chapelle devotes 5 pages of American Small Sailing Craft to Bateaux, including line drawings for a 17'8"bateau which would be very easy yo reproduce in plywood.
JohnT
JohnT
----- Original Message -----
From: CSC
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 6:25 PM
Subject: [bolger] Special Olympics Bateau (was Re:Naval Jelly isometric)
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Douglas Pollard <Dougpol1@...> wrote:
> Sorry folks this last e-mail hardly makes sense I got in a big hurry
> writing, I always thought a Bateau had deadrise like a skipjack?
> Doug
Bateau just means "boat" in French. Some boats in the Chesapeake region
are called "bateaus" and they typically have deadrise. But some boats
from Louisiana are "bateaus" and they are flat-bottomed.
Bateau is not specific to a hull design, as, say, a "skipjack"
or "sharpie" would be.
Discussion of rigs earlier should be a tip-off, all boat design names,
rig or hull, are generally "fuzzy sets" unless commercially controlled
or part of a one-design group. There are few "definitive" definitions.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.6/1402 - Release Date: 4/28/2008 1:29 PM
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Douglas Pollard <Dougpol1@...> wrote:
are called "bateaus" and they typically have deadrise. But some boats
from Louisiana are "bateaus" and they are flat-bottomed.
Bateau is not specific to a hull design, as, say, a "skipjack"
or "sharpie" would be.
Discussion of rigs earlier should be a tip-off, all boat design names,
rig or hull, are generally "fuzzy sets" unless commercially controlled
or part of a one-design group. There are few "definitive" definitions.
> Sorry folks this last e-mail hardly makes sense I got in a big hurryBateau just means "boat" in French. Some boats in the Chesapeake region
> writing, I always thought a Bateau had deadrise like a skipjack?
> Doug
are called "bateaus" and they typically have deadrise. But some boats
from Louisiana are "bateaus" and they are flat-bottomed.
Bateau is not specific to a hull design, as, say, a "skipjack"
or "sharpie" would be.
Discussion of rigs earlier should be a tip-off, all boat design names,
rig or hull, are generally "fuzzy sets" unless commercially controlled
or part of a one-design group. There are few "definitive" definitions.
Sorry folks this last e-mail hardly makes sense I got in a big hurry
writing, I always thought a Bateau had deadrise like a skipjack?
Doug
Douglas Pollard wrote:
writing, I always thought a Bateau had deadrise like a skipjack?
Doug
Douglas Pollard wrote:
>
> Iv;e missed something over the years I always a skip jack had deadrise
> on her bottom . Like a skipjack. That boat looks more like a sharpie.
> Don't Bateaus all have upward curving chines, shear and deadrise ???
>
> Doug
>
> Bruce Hallman wrote:
> >
> > Good call, I had totally forgotten about the Special Olympics Bateau.
> >
> > Isometric here:
> >
> >http://flickr.com/photos/hallman/2448888173/
> <http://flickr.com/photos/hallman/2448888173/>
> > <http://flickr.com/photos/hallman/2448888173/
> <http://flickr.com/photos/hallman/2448888173/>>
> >
> > And, I agree that the only place this appeared is in that old Common
> > Sense Designs catalog.
> >
> > On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 5:11 PM, Mark Albanese <marka@...
> <mailto:marka%40highstream.net>
> > <mailto:marka%40highstream.net>> wrote:
> > > Unless built in two sections, it's also a bit of a problem for many
> > > to store.
> > > For a somewhat smaller version, there's the Special Olympics Bateau:
> > >
> > > 25' 6" x 4' 10"
> > > Capacity 4 adults
> > > 6 1/2' oars
> > > 7 sheets 1/2" ply, though could be built much lighter
> > >
> > > It's _really_ hard to find a pic of one of those.
> > > Bruce? did you scan that page from the Common Sense Design Catalog? I
> > > can't find any of it in your Flikr or Webshots stuff.
> > >
> > > The basic idea is in at least four sizes: Yellow Leaf, 15'; the pedal
> > > boat, Madeline, 19'; Bateau, 25'; Naval Jelly, 31'.
> > > Mark
> >
> >
>
>
Iv;e missed something over the years I always a skip jack had deadrise
on her bottom . Like a skipjack. That boat looks more like a sharpie.
Don't Bateaus all have upward curving chines, shear and deadrise ???
Doug
Bruce Hallman wrote:
on her bottom . Like a skipjack. That boat looks more like a sharpie.
Don't Bateaus all have upward curving chines, shear and deadrise ???
Doug
Bruce Hallman wrote:
>
> Good call, I had totally forgotten about the Special Olympics Bateau.
>
> Isometric here:
>
>http://flickr.com/photos/hallman/2448888173/
> <http://flickr.com/photos/hallman/2448888173/>
>
> And, I agree that the only place this appeared is in that old Common
> Sense Designs catalog.
>
> On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 5:11 PM, Mark Albanese <marka@...
> <mailto:marka%40highstream.net>> wrote:
> > Unless built in two sections, it's also a bit of a problem for many
> > to store.
> > For a somewhat smaller version, there's the Special Olympics Bateau:
> >
> > 25' 6" x 4' 10"
> > Capacity 4 adults
> > 6 1/2' oars
> > 7 sheets 1/2" ply, though could be built much lighter
> >
> > It's _really_ hard to find a pic of one of those.
> > Bruce? did you scan that page from the Common Sense Design Catalog? I
> > can't find any of it in your Flikr or Webshots stuff.
> >
> > The basic idea is in at least four sizes: Yellow Leaf, 15'; the pedal
> > boat, Madeline, 19'; Bateau, 25'; Naval Jelly, 31'.
> > Mark
>
>
Good call, I had totally forgotten about the Special Olympics Bateau.
Isometric here:
http://flickr.com/photos/hallman/2448888173/
And, I agree that the only place this appeared is in that old Common
Sense Designs catalog.
Isometric here:
http://flickr.com/photos/hallman/2448888173/
And, I agree that the only place this appeared is in that old Common
Sense Designs catalog.
On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 5:11 PM, Mark Albanese <marka@...> wrote:
> Unless built in two sections, it's also a bit of a problem for many
> to store.
> For a somewhat smaller version, there's the Special Olympics Bateau:
>
> 25' 6" x 4' 10"
> Capacity 4 adults
> 6 1/2' oars
> 7 sheets 1/2" ply, though could be built much lighter
>
> It's _really_ hard to find a pic of one of those.
> Bruce? did you scan that page from the Common Sense Design Catalog? I
> can't find any of it in your Flikr or Webshots stuff.
>
> The basic idea is in at least four sizes: Yellow Leaf, 15'; the pedal
> boat, Madeline, 19'; Bateau, 25'; Naval Jelly, 31'.
> Mark