Re: [bolger] Re: Sided Lumber?
"Sided" dimensions are measured, roughly, along the outer surface if the
boat, "molded" dimensions are measured from the inside of the boat out (or
vice versa). Thus a deck beam sided 1 1/2" and molded 3" would be 1 1/2"
thick and 3" from top to bottom. A frame sided 1" and molded 2" would be
1" in the fore and aft dimension and 2" athwartship.
boat, "molded" dimensions are measured from the inside of the boat out (or
vice versa). Thus a deck beam sided 1 1/2" and molded 3" would be 1 1/2"
thick and 3" from top to bottom. A frame sided 1" and molded 2" would be
1" in the fore and aft dimension and 2" athwartship.
On Fri, 02 May 2008 12:06:37 -0700, Jon K wrote:
>> The building key for my camper #640 often calls for lumber
> dimensions described as
>> 'sided' e.g. "framing lumber 1 1/2" X 3" sided" What does this mean?
>
> Without seeing the building key I can only speculate, but there is a
> common usage on boat plans for the words "sided" and "moulded." For
> example, if it says that some piece like the stem is sided 1-1/2",
> moulded 3", it means the piece is an inch and a half from side to
> side, and three inches deep fore and aft. If it's straight, you could
> get this piece out of a nominal 2x4. Books on traditional
> boatbuilding like those by McIntosh or Chappelle have all the
> nomenclature and are fascinating reads.
> ...
--
John <jkohnen@...>
Many a man has fallen in love with a girl in light so dim he
would not have chosen a suit by it. <Maurice Chevalier>
Normally the moulded dimension refers to the outer dimensions of the mold or frame, (inside the skin). That would be the the beam for example short of the planking or skin thickness (on both sides of course). With depth, In traditional wooden boats this may vary considerably from the total distance from say the sheer to the bottom of the keel compared to the distance from the underside of the deck to the top of the keel or keelson. These dimensions were important because the volume of the vessel was very important for considering the carrying capacity, after all that is what the boat was designed for.
Most working vessels are measured for Gross Tonnage. This has nothing whatsoever to do with displacement or weight. It is a measure of volume in the ship with some defined deductions. Net Tonnage is GT minus some more deductions. This gross tonnage comes down to us from the deep mists of the past, 1100's or 1200's AD in Europe when a ship was measured according to how many barrels of wine it could carry. A Barrel of wine was called a Tunn.
JG
----- Original Message ----
From: Bill Kreamer <kreamers@...>
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, May 2, 2008 5:45:12 PM
Subject: RE: [bolger] Re: Sided Lumber?
Please do correct me if I'm wrong, but I read it that the moulded dimension
is the distance between the curves of a part as drawn on the mould floor;
sided is the distance between the flat planes of the part, i.e. the stock
thickness. Either may be the larger. Thanks, Bill
_____
From: bolger@yahoogroups. com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of
adventures_in_ astrophotography
Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 3:07 PM
To: bolger@yahoogroups. com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Sided Lumber?
Hi Donnie,
common usage on boat plans for the words "sided" and "moulded." For
example, if it says that some piece like the stem is sided 1-1/2",
moulded 3", it means the piece is an inch and a half from side to
side, and three inches deep fore and aft. If it's straight, you could
get this piece out of a nominal 2x4. Books on traditional
boatbuilding like those by McIntosh or Chappelle have all the
nomenclature and are fascinating reads.
There also exists lumber terminology for how many sides have been
surfaced (planed). Rough lumber is usually sold in "quarter"
thicknesses, like 4/4, 6/4, and 8/4, which equate to 1", 1.5", and 2"
thick boards, respectively. If the lumber is "dimensioned" , it
usually refers to material that has been surfaced on 4 sides,
denoted "S4S" and in the case of 8/4 material winds up as typcial "2-
by" boards that are actually only about 1.5" thick.
S4S is most common, but lots of cedar house trim sold around here is
rough on one face because it's "S1S2E" or "surfaced one side, two
edges." When I buy CVG fir up in Denver, it's 4/4 or 5/4 rough, but I
usually pay a little extra to have them "S2S" it to whatever thickness
I'd like (like maybe 13/16" for 4/4 rough lumber) because they have a
planer the size of a refrigerator that can do in a few minutes what
would take me an hour with my little 12" portable.
Clear as mud?
Jon Kolb
www.kolbsadventures .com/boatbuildin g_index.htm
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Most working vessels are measured for Gross Tonnage. This has nothing whatsoever to do with displacement or weight. It is a measure of volume in the ship with some defined deductions. Net Tonnage is GT minus some more deductions. This gross tonnage comes down to us from the deep mists of the past, 1100's or 1200's AD in Europe when a ship was measured according to how many barrels of wine it could carry. A Barrel of wine was called a Tunn.
JG
----- Original Message ----
From: Bill Kreamer <kreamers@...>
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, May 2, 2008 5:45:12 PM
Subject: RE: [bolger] Re: Sided Lumber?
Please do correct me if I'm wrong, but I read it that the moulded dimension
is the distance between the curves of a part as drawn on the mould floor;
sided is the distance between the flat planes of the part, i.e. the stock
thickness. Either may be the larger. Thanks, Bill
_____
From: bolger@yahoogroups. com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of
adventures_in_ astrophotography
Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 3:07 PM
To: bolger@yahoogroups. com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Sided Lumber?
Hi Donnie,
> The building key for my camper #640 often calls for lumberdimensions described as
> 'sided' e.g. "framing lumber 1 1/2" X 3" sided" What does this mean?Without seeing the building key I can only speculate, but there is a
common usage on boat plans for the words "sided" and "moulded." For
example, if it says that some piece like the stem is sided 1-1/2",
moulded 3", it means the piece is an inch and a half from side to
side, and three inches deep fore and aft. If it's straight, you could
get this piece out of a nominal 2x4. Books on traditional
boatbuilding like those by McIntosh or Chappelle have all the
nomenclature and are fascinating reads.
There also exists lumber terminology for how many sides have been
surfaced (planed). Rough lumber is usually sold in "quarter"
thicknesses, like 4/4, 6/4, and 8/4, which equate to 1", 1.5", and 2"
thick boards, respectively. If the lumber is "dimensioned" , it
usually refers to material that has been surfaced on 4 sides,
denoted "S4S" and in the case of 8/4 material winds up as typcial "2-
by" boards that are actually only about 1.5" thick.
S4S is most common, but lots of cedar house trim sold around here is
rough on one face because it's "S1S2E" or "surfaced one side, two
edges." When I buy CVG fir up in Denver, it's 4/4 or 5/4 rough, but I
usually pay a little extra to have them "S2S" it to whatever thickness
I'd like (like maybe 13/16" for 4/4 rough lumber) because they have a
planer the size of a refrigerator that can do in a few minutes what
would take me an hour with my little 12" portable.
Clear as mud?
Jon Kolb
www.kolbsadventures .com/boatbuildin g_index.htm
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
__________________________________________________________________
Get a sneak peak at messages with a handy reading pane with All new Yahoo! Mail:http://ca.promos.yahoo.com/newmail/overview2/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
When I worked in the mill rough sawen was with the head rig aand just
over call size. Resawen was with a smaller bandsaw and normaly to call
size. Any more on S4S and S3S it can be just about any size.
Jon
over call size. Resawen was with a smaller bandsaw and normaly to call
size. Any more on S4S and S3S it can be just about any size.
Jon
On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 9:56 AM, donnieraydavis <donnieraydavis@...> wrote:
the same class as a Birdwatcher, but at 18 feet LOA more compact
(simpler to store and trailer). I have long admired that design, but
I cannot think of anyone who has ever built it. It has the forward
centerboard with the extra large rudder, on the Bolger theory advanced
with his Dart Dingy design, where the rudder serves to carry a
significant fraction of the lateral plane.
>You are building a Camper 640? Cool. What a great boat, really in
> The building key for my camper #640
the same class as a Birdwatcher, but at 18 feet LOA more compact
(simpler to store and trailer). I have long admired that design, but
I cannot think of anyone who has ever built it. It has the forward
centerboard with the extra large rudder, on the Bolger theory advanced
with his Dart Dingy design, where the rudder serves to carry a
significant fraction of the lateral plane.
Please do correct me if I'm wrong, but I read it that the moulded dimension
is the distance between the curves of a part as drawn on the mould floor;
sided is the distance between the flat planes of the part, i.e. the stock
thickness. Either may be the larger. Thanks, Bill
_____
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
adventures_in_astrophotography
Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 3:07 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Sided Lumber?
Hi Donnie,
common usage on boat plans for the words "sided" and "moulded." For
example, if it says that some piece like the stem is sided 1-1/2",
moulded 3", it means the piece is an inch and a half from side to
side, and three inches deep fore and aft. If it's straight, you could
get this piece out of a nominal 2x4. Books on traditional
boatbuilding like those by McIntosh or Chappelle have all the
nomenclature and are fascinating reads.
There also exists lumber terminology for how many sides have been
surfaced (planed). Rough lumber is usually sold in "quarter"
thicknesses, like 4/4, 6/4, and 8/4, which equate to 1", 1.5", and 2"
thick boards, respectively. If the lumber is "dimensioned", it
usually refers to material that has been surfaced on 4 sides,
denoted "S4S" and in the case of 8/4 material winds up as typcial "2-
by" boards that are actually only about 1.5" thick.
S4S is most common, but lots of cedar house trim sold around here is
rough on one face because it's "S1S2E" or "surfaced one side, two
edges." When I buy CVG fir up in Denver, it's 4/4 or 5/4 rough, but I
usually pay a little extra to have them "S2S" it to whatever thickness
I'd like (like maybe 13/16" for 4/4 rough lumber) because they have a
planer the size of a refrigerator that can do in a few minutes what
would take me an hour with my little 12" portable.
Clear as mud?
Jon Kolb
www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
is the distance between the curves of a part as drawn on the mould floor;
sided is the distance between the flat planes of the part, i.e. the stock
thickness. Either may be the larger. Thanks, Bill
_____
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
adventures_in_astrophotography
Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 3:07 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Sided Lumber?
Hi Donnie,
> The building key for my camper #640 often calls for lumberdimensions described as
> 'sided' e.g. "framing lumber 1 1/2" X 3" sided" What does this mean?Without seeing the building key I can only speculate, but there is a
common usage on boat plans for the words "sided" and "moulded." For
example, if it says that some piece like the stem is sided 1-1/2",
moulded 3", it means the piece is an inch and a half from side to
side, and three inches deep fore and aft. If it's straight, you could
get this piece out of a nominal 2x4. Books on traditional
boatbuilding like those by McIntosh or Chappelle have all the
nomenclature and are fascinating reads.
There also exists lumber terminology for how many sides have been
surfaced (planed). Rough lumber is usually sold in "quarter"
thicknesses, like 4/4, 6/4, and 8/4, which equate to 1", 1.5", and 2"
thick boards, respectively. If the lumber is "dimensioned", it
usually refers to material that has been surfaced on 4 sides,
denoted "S4S" and in the case of 8/4 material winds up as typcial "2-
by" boards that are actually only about 1.5" thick.
S4S is most common, but lots of cedar house trim sold around here is
rough on one face because it's "S1S2E" or "surfaced one side, two
edges." When I buy CVG fir up in Denver, it's 4/4 or 5/4 rough, but I
usually pay a little extra to have them "S2S" it to whatever thickness
I'd like (like maybe 13/16" for 4/4 rough lumber) because they have a
planer the size of a refrigerator that can do in a few minutes what
would take me an hour with my little 12" portable.
Clear as mud?
Jon Kolb
www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Hi Donnie,
common usage on boat plans for the words "sided" and "moulded." For
example, if it says that some piece like the stem is sided 1-1/2",
moulded 3", it means the piece is an inch and a half from side to
side, and three inches deep fore and aft. If it's straight, you could
get this piece out of a nominal 2x4. Books on traditional
boatbuilding like those by McIntosh or Chappelle have all the
nomenclature and are fascinating reads.
There also exists lumber terminology for how many sides have been
surfaced (planed). Rough lumber is usually sold in "quarter"
thicknesses, like 4/4, 6/4, and 8/4, which equate to 1", 1.5", and 2"
thick boards, respectively. If the lumber is "dimensioned", it
usually refers to material that has been surfaced on 4 sides,
denoted "S4S" and in the case of 8/4 material winds up as typcial "2-
by" boards that are actually only about 1.5" thick.
S4S is most common, but lots of cedar house trim sold around here is
rough on one face because it's "S1S2E" or "surfaced one side, two
edges." When I buy CVG fir up in Denver, it's 4/4 or 5/4 rough, but I
usually pay a little extra to have them "S2S" it to whatever thickness
I'd like (like maybe 13/16" for 4/4 rough lumber) because they have a
planer the size of a refrigerator that can do in a few minutes what
would take me an hour with my little 12" portable.
Clear as mud?
Jon Kolb
www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
> The building key for my camper #640 often calls for lumberdimensions described as
> 'sided' e.g. "framing lumber 1 1/2" X 3" sided" What does this mean?Without seeing the building key I can only speculate, but there is a
common usage on boat plans for the words "sided" and "moulded." For
example, if it says that some piece like the stem is sided 1-1/2",
moulded 3", it means the piece is an inch and a half from side to
side, and three inches deep fore and aft. If it's straight, you could
get this piece out of a nominal 2x4. Books on traditional
boatbuilding like those by McIntosh or Chappelle have all the
nomenclature and are fascinating reads.
There also exists lumber terminology for how many sides have been
surfaced (planed). Rough lumber is usually sold in "quarter"
thicknesses, like 4/4, 6/4, and 8/4, which equate to 1", 1.5", and 2"
thick boards, respectively. If the lumber is "dimensioned", it
usually refers to material that has been surfaced on 4 sides,
denoted "S4S" and in the case of 8/4 material winds up as typcial "2-
by" boards that are actually only about 1.5" thick.
S4S is most common, but lots of cedar house trim sold around here is
rough on one face because it's "S1S2E" or "surfaced one side, two
edges." When I buy CVG fir up in Denver, it's 4/4 or 5/4 rough, but I
usually pay a little extra to have them "S2S" it to whatever thickness
I'd like (like maybe 13/16" for 4/4 rough lumber) because they have a
planer the size of a refrigerator that can do in a few minutes what
would take me an hour with my little 12" portable.
Clear as mud?
Jon Kolb
www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
In the dock building marine industry "sided" refers to lumber that has been
planed to be the same dimension along the entire length. More commonly
referred to as "dimensional", this is the 2"x4" bought at Home Depot that
does not measure to the noted size. There is lumber out there that is
called "rough cut" and it has large dimension variations from one end of the
board to the other but typically is at least the dimensions it is sold as.
Rough cut lumber comes in several variations I have seen rough cut and rough
cut heavy, there are cost differences but you are guaranteed a minimum cross
sectional area with rough cut equal to the noted size. Here in the
southeast US most rough cut lumber I have seen is treated although that
could be a result of working in the marine environment, without CCA the worm
borers consider it lunch.
Hope this helps.
Caloosarat
_____
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
donnieraydavis
Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 12:56 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Sided Lumber?
The building key for my camper #640 often calls for lumber dimensions
described as
'sided' e.g. "framing lumber 1 1/2" X 3" sided" What does this mean?
Donnie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
planed to be the same dimension along the entire length. More commonly
referred to as "dimensional", this is the 2"x4" bought at Home Depot that
does not measure to the noted size. There is lumber out there that is
called "rough cut" and it has large dimension variations from one end of the
board to the other but typically is at least the dimensions it is sold as.
Rough cut lumber comes in several variations I have seen rough cut and rough
cut heavy, there are cost differences but you are guaranteed a minimum cross
sectional area with rough cut equal to the noted size. Here in the
southeast US most rough cut lumber I have seen is treated although that
could be a result of working in the marine environment, without CCA the worm
borers consider it lunch.
Hope this helps.
Caloosarat
_____
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
donnieraydavis
Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 12:56 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Sided Lumber?
The building key for my camper #640 often calls for lumber dimensions
described as
'sided' e.g. "framing lumber 1 1/2" X 3" sided" What does this mean?
Donnie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
The building key for my camper #640 often calls for lumber dimensions described as
'sided' e.g. "framing lumber 1 1/2" X 3" sided" What does this mean?
Donnie
'sided' e.g. "framing lumber 1 1/2" X 3" sided" What does this mean?
Donnie