Re: [bolger] Re: Protected water
Actually I was thinking of really shallow water, like 1-2
feet ... but you're right, it is a good discussion -- it
makes people think.
:)
Sincerely,
Ken Grome
Bagacay Boatworks
www.bagacayboatworks.com
feet ... but you're right, it is a good discussion -- it
makes people think.
:)
Sincerely,
Ken Grome
Bagacay Boatworks
www.bagacayboatworks.com
> Then again I have been in areas where there is a long<bagacayboatworks@...> wrote:
> fetch over shallow water resulting in short waves with a
> short period. Say 3 feet tall (but that was from mean
> water so they were 6' from peak to trough) perhaps 10
> feet apart. Conditions were exciting in my C-22, so,
> shallow water can pose a problem, too. I spoke with
> someone that had the keel of their 40' hit in the same
> area in worse conditions. It was 15 to 20' deep in that
> area of Pamlico sound. Seems to me the statement about
> being able to run and hide is perhaps one of the most
> valid points of what makes water protected. This is an
> interesting topic.
> Michael
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Kenneth Grome
> > > Certainly, limited fetch (and therefore limited wave
> > > size) is the main quality of protected waters.
> >
> > Limiting fetch is one way to limit wave size. Another
> > is "shallow water" where waves cannot get too big
> > regardless of how much fetch there is.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> > Ken Grome
> > Bagacay Boatworks
> > www.bagacayboatworks.com
Then again I have been in areas where there is a long fetch over
shallow water resulting in short waves with a short period. Say 3
feet tall (but that was from mean water so they were 6' from peak to
trough) perhaps 10 feet apart. Conditions were exciting in my C-22,
so, shallow water can pose a problem, too. I spoke with someone that
had the keel of their 40' hit in the same area in worse conditions.
It was 15 to 20' deep in that area of Pamlico sound. Seems to me the
statement about being able to run and hide is perhaps one of the most
valid points of what makes water protected. This is an interesting
topic.
Michael
shallow water resulting in short waves with a short period. Say 3
feet tall (but that was from mean water so they were 6' from peak to
trough) perhaps 10 feet apart. Conditions were exciting in my C-22,
so, shallow water can pose a problem, too. I spoke with someone that
had the keel of their 40' hit in the same area in worse conditions.
It was 15 to 20' deep in that area of Pamlico sound. Seems to me the
statement about being able to run and hide is perhaps one of the most
valid points of what makes water protected. This is an interesting
topic.
Michael
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Kenneth Grome <bagacayboatworks@...> wrote:
>
> > Certainly, limited fetch (and therefore limited wave
> > size) is the main quality of protected waters.
>
> Limiting fetch is one way to limit wave size. Another
> is "shallow water" where waves cannot get too big
> regardless of how much fetch there is.
>
> Sincerely,
> Ken Grome
> Bagacay Boatworks
> www.bagacayboatworks.com
>
> Certainly, limited fetch (and therefore limited waveLimiting fetch is one way to limit wave size. Another
> size) is the main quality of protected waters.
is "shallow water" where waves cannot get too big
regardless of how much fetch there is.
Sincerely,
Ken Grome
Bagacay Boatworks
www.bagacayboatworks.com
After 22 years of sea kayaking along the coats of the St-Laurence
River Estuary, the St-Laurence River itself (From Quebec city to
Kingston), Canadian and American Atlantic costs and Georgian Bay,
plus few years of intermittent cruising with my AF4 around Quebec city
and Parry Sound area, to me a protected water is a body of water where
you can hide from the effect of wind and waves within few minutes. The
distance may vary depending if you are on a 35 feet trawler or in a
400 lbs flat bottom plywood boat.
River Estuary, the St-Laurence River itself (From Quebec city to
Kingston), Canadian and American Atlantic costs and Georgian Bay,
plus few years of intermittent cruising with my AF4 around Quebec city
and Parry Sound area, to me a protected water is a body of water where
you can hide from the effect of wind and waves within few minutes. The
distance may vary depending if you are on a 35 feet trawler or in a
400 lbs flat bottom plywood boat.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...> wrote:
>
> > fetch
>
> Certainly, limited fetch (and therefore limited wave size) is the main
> quality of protected waters.
>
> Also, I would add protection from other safety issues , such as:
>
> 1) safe shores (nicely sloped as opposed to cliffs)
>
> 2) safe water temperature.
>
> 3) safe traffic
>
> 4) limited currents
>
> 5) safe shoals (not a lot of sand bars, submerged rocks, etc..
>
> fetchCertainly, limited fetch (and therefore limited wave size) is the main
quality of protected waters.
Also, I would add protection from other safety issues , such as:
1) safe shores (nicely sloped as opposed to cliffs)
2) safe water temperature.
3) safe traffic
4) limited currents
5) safe shoals (not a lot of sand bars, submerged rocks, etc..
What a great topic for discussion! It's a definitioin everyone must work out for themselves, considering the vessel they are sailing and tiier own skills and experience.
By Fred's definition, "protected water" would be limited to inner harbors and small lakes.
My own definition would extend further than that, to places where fetch (and other factors) can make the water dangerous to sail in with a small boat -- the difference being that the sailor needs to make some judgements of conditions at the time to decide whether or not the water can be considered "protected" at that time. With this in mind, I think of "protected water" as places where the conditions are good for small boat sailing some of the time, but some of the time might NOT be appropriate. (Conversely, even a small, protected lake can have conditions that are too dangerous for small boat sailing).
One place that comes to mind is Lake Champlain. Much of the time, the lake is pretty benign -- 1 - 2 foot seas to flat calm -- The widest part of the lake is only 4 or 5 miles, but with the northwest wind, you can go from calm to 4 foot waves to "hello Coast Guard" in about 20 minutes. The last hurricane that came through there recorded 10 foot waves (before the buoy broke, so who knows how high they eventually got).
Another place in my experience would be Buzzards Bay and Vineyard Sound in Massachusetts. This area is arguably the home of small boat sailing. There are often conditions that can and do sink large, commercial vessels, but most days you'll see hundreds of sunfish, catboats, open sailing dingies, Optimists prams, etc out on the water, and even safely and regularly crossing both bodies of water (I plan on crossing both bodies of water in a 15-1/2 foot Michalak AF3 later this summer).
So, I guess my own definition of "protected water" would be a body of water (or distance off the shore of ANY body of water) where prudent and timely decisions allow you to reach shore should conditions become dangerous for your boat and experience.
David C
---- n4_mjr <n4_mjr@...> wrote:
By Fred's definition, "protected water" would be limited to inner harbors and small lakes.
My own definition would extend further than that, to places where fetch (and other factors) can make the water dangerous to sail in with a small boat -- the difference being that the sailor needs to make some judgements of conditions at the time to decide whether or not the water can be considered "protected" at that time. With this in mind, I think of "protected water" as places where the conditions are good for small boat sailing some of the time, but some of the time might NOT be appropriate. (Conversely, even a small, protected lake can have conditions that are too dangerous for small boat sailing).
One place that comes to mind is Lake Champlain. Much of the time, the lake is pretty benign -- 1 - 2 foot seas to flat calm -- The widest part of the lake is only 4 or 5 miles, but with the northwest wind, you can go from calm to 4 foot waves to "hello Coast Guard" in about 20 minutes. The last hurricane that came through there recorded 10 foot waves (before the buoy broke, so who knows how high they eventually got).
Another place in my experience would be Buzzards Bay and Vineyard Sound in Massachusetts. This area is arguably the home of small boat sailing. There are often conditions that can and do sink large, commercial vessels, but most days you'll see hundreds of sunfish, catboats, open sailing dingies, Optimists prams, etc out on the water, and even safely and regularly crossing both bodies of water (I plan on crossing both bodies of water in a 15-1/2 foot Michalak AF3 later this summer).
So, I guess my own definition of "protected water" would be a body of water (or distance off the shore of ANY body of water) where prudent and timely decisions allow you to reach shore should conditions become dangerous for your boat and experience.
David C
---- n4_mjr <n4_mjr@...> wrote:
> A body of water situated such that it has limited fetch, preventing
> wave formation.
> Michael
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "mederic008" <fredshooner@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hi everyone,
> >
> > I would appreciate if you can share your own definition of "protected
> > water".
> >
> > Fred Shooner
> > Quebec City, Canada
>
>
>
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A body of water situated such that it has limited fetch, preventing
wave formation.
Michael
wave formation.
Michael
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "mederic008" <fredshooner@...> wrote:
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> I would appreciate if you can share your own definition of "protected
> water".
>
> Fred Shooner
> Quebec City, Canada
Hi everyone,
I would appreciate if you can share your own definition of "protected
water".
Fred Shooner
Quebec City, Canada
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/06/outings/queenmary/index.htm
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/06/gatherings/kingston/index.htm
I would appreciate if you can share your own definition of "protected
water".
Fred Shooner
Quebec City, Canada
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/06/outings/queenmary/index.htm
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/06/gatherings/kingston/index.htm