Re: [bolger] Re: Cartopper - rudder details and centreboard pivot
nsimms wrote:
It's hard to picture the snotter causing the mast to rotate much, what with
the friction at partners and step. Can someone with a big-ish snotter/sprit
rig chime in? Maybe greased leathers in those areas would help. And a
retaining collar clamped around the mast under the partners? - Bill K
Hi, all,
My boat is a 16 foot, 6' beam, FG Crawford Dory, weighing about 450
lbs. I have two sails that I use: a 77 ft sprit and a 99 ft sprit. The
mast is a round, glued up mast, about 3" diam, tapering aloft, no
leather, greased or otherwise. I have been sailing this boat for about
17 years now.
There are undoubtedly other ways to do it, but as far as I know the
standard rigging for a spritsail is all on the mast. I assure you that
the mast can rotate in its step. I scanned some passages out of John
Leather's "Spritsails and Lugsails" and offer some of his comments:
/"The hole in the mast thwart should not fit /[and here I lost some text
in scanning]/ chafing piece of greased leather seized or sewn around it
to allow the mast to rotate in the step, which is desirable with small
spritsails."
/
/"The sprit is set up by passing the tail of the snotter through the
score in the sprit heel and then through the thimble, forming a purchase
which is swigged-up until wrinkles are thrown in the sail from tack to
peak, as in setting a gaff sail."/
When the sprit pole is 'swigged-up', the tension (and it is
considerable) is set relative to the mast. Since the pole is offset to
one side of the mast, if the mast did not turn, tension would change
when tacking and the sail, pole et. al. go from side to side. In
tacking, the mast does not come about all at once, rather it walks its
way around under the influence of the snotter and the movements of the
boat. Turning the mast by hand is not difficult, but it does take both
hands. /
/
/"The spritsail, mast, sprit and rigging is best first tried laid out on
the ground. The clew should be high and the tack low. Spritsail masts
should have good rake as this seems to help the sails set well and
usually improves the appearance of the rig in a small boat. Many small
spritsail boats had adjustable rake on at least the mainmast."
"The thumb cleat for the tack might be fitted just above the upper mast
support, as low as possible, to allow adjustment of the tack position.
The thumb cleat for the snotter is best positioned on the ground with
the sprit 'peaked-up' at its correct angle to set the sail. This cleat
should be as low as possible. The robands should be tied to the mast,
not too tightly."/
/"When everything seems satisfactory on the ground, the sail can be
furled for carrying or stowage by taking the sprit out of the snotter,
placing it parallel to the mast and, keeping the head of the sail taut,
throw the clew over the sprit, then roll the sail and sprit up to the
mast, maintaining an upward pressure on the peak so it will furl
tightly. The loose snotter is passed around the sail and mast and then a
clove hitch is passed around all. The sheet is coiled and made fast to
the tail of the snotter. The rig is then ready to be carried, stepped or
stored."/
/"A long narrow boat will probably be best with a rig of two or more
spritsails. It is usually best to make these sails of different areas,
with the larger as the foresail and the smaller the mizzen in a two
masted rig; or the mainsail larger than the foresail, and the mizzen
smallest in a three masted rig. If two masted, the full rig can be
carried in light winds and in stronger breezes the foresail can be
reefed. If the wind strengthens, the mizzen might be furled and
unstepped and the foresail be shifted slightly aft in a second step, to
preserve sail balance. This step can usefully give increased rake to the
mast. In strong winds the mizzen, only, could be set up, probably in the
same step and well raked. This reduction of sail area and a freshening
wind will usually require the centreboard to be lowered further. In the
now uncommon three masted rig the mainmast and sail is the first to be
furled or struck, leaving the fore and mizzen as a useful area for
stronger winds. If wind strength increases these are reefed or shifted
for the two sail rig."/
These passages show that the entire sprit rig can be set up outside of
the boat and easily be picked up and shifted about. I cannot remember
where I read it, but I have heard that just chucking the entire rig over
the side (but not losing hold of the sheet) makes a wonderful sea anchor.
/"When beaching a spritsail boat in a light onshore wind the sails can
be allowed to rotate to blow out forward; this is possible with the
rotary masts but undesirable in other conditions as retrieving the
sheets and retrimming the sails would be difficult afloat.
Alternatively, in a two masted spritsail boat, the mizzen is handed and
the foresail is brailed up as she runs for the shore."/
This is a step that I commonly take. I agree completely about
difficulty in retrieving the sheets and retrimming sails when afloat,
but it is a long way from being impossible. In gentle weather it is OK
just to unsnap the sheet from the sail, allowing it to blow out forward,
while you catch a fish, eat lunch or attend to other business. With a
bit more wind, getting all together again can be a chore and something
that I would not care to recommend trying in a tender boat. Care does
need to be taken not to get the sail wrapped around the mast.
/
"A sizeable sprit rig is not ideal for single-handed sailing, as to go
forward and unship the sprit from the snotter by hand is not easy if the
sprit is to leeward of the sail, and it may be difficult if it is to
windward, as once the heel is out of the snotter it tends to drive down
and could pierce the bottom of the boat in extreme conditions, when it
is best to direct the heel overboard."/
Ya' gotta be careful. And I agree completely with him here. I
sometimes think that a lug sail would be easier to use. All you have to
do is loose the halyard, and if the spar doesn't brain you on its way
down, the sail is in and you can do the housekeeping later. With the
sprit, you have togo to the mast, undo the snotter; the sprit heel
going overboard gives you more room and makes life easier. Then while
keeping the peak of the sail in check, get the pole inboard, then roll
the sail up to the mast. To furl I use a line for this that has an eye
in one end. Run the line around the mast/sail, put the bitter end
through the eye and spiral the line down the sail and secure it. If
everything is calm I use marline hitches, otherwise just spiral it down.
Then you can take the mast down. I grew tired of lifting the mast/sail
over the partner, so I installed a pair of hinges, replacing one if the
pins with a cotter pin, then cut the partner in half so I could hinge
the partner open. It helps.
All of this being said, I really don't know what ground rules apply for
a leg o' mutton rig with sprit boom. And I am sure that many sprit rigs
have worked well without a rotating mast. Good luck on whatever you
choose to do. There's always more than one way to skin a cat.
Calm Seas & A Prosperous Voyage
Malcolm
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>Bill Kreamer wrote
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com<mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com>,
> malcolmf <malcolmf@...> wrote:
> >For a sprit
> > controlled sail to function correctly, the mast must be free to turn.
> > If it didn't turn, the sprit & snotter would wind or unwind around the
> > mast on different tacks, giving different tension to the sail.
>
> Is this really true? I'm in the middle of building the leg o'mutton
> rig for a modified Nymph, and the Nymph plans seem to show the
> (square) mast wedged into the longitudinal thwart (which acts as a
> mast step), at the mast base.
>
> So I made my mast step (I have no thwart due to my customizations)
> such that the mast will be tapered/wedged in at the base and will not
> turn. It will thus be 'suspended' and kept off the 1/4" ply bottom of
> the boat. I haven't constructed the mast yet, so it's not too late to
> change this if the mast absolutely needs to rotate.
>
> Anybody else have experience with the small Bolger sprit rigs? Does
> your mast rotate or not?
>
> BTW, I was planning to make the snotter a la Dynamite's 'Instant
> Boatbuilding' book, and as 'alternate' spec'd in the Ruben's Nymph
> plans, with a thimble in a sling, through which the snotter passes.
> IIRC, Dynamite says this method is less prone to binding.
>
> Seems to me this ought to work freely enough not to require rotation
> of the mast...
>
> Neil S.
>
> P.S. Looking more closely at the Ruben's Nymph plans, it appears the
> mast on that design IS free to rotate, being round at the base, with
> the weight of the mast bearing on the partner via the mast chocks. Of
> course that's a bigger rig (59 sq ft vs 40 sq ft on Nymph). So now I'm
> not so sure which way to go :(.
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG -http://www.avg.com
> Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.5/1620 - Release Date: 8/19/2008 6:04 AM
>
It's hard to picture the snotter causing the mast to rotate much, what with
the friction at partners and step. Can someone with a big-ish snotter/sprit
rig chime in? Maybe greased leathers in those areas would help. And a
retaining collar clamped around the mast under the partners? - Bill K
Hi, all,
My boat is a 16 foot, 6' beam, FG Crawford Dory, weighing about 450
lbs. I have two sails that I use: a 77 ft sprit and a 99 ft sprit. The
mast is a round, glued up mast, about 3" diam, tapering aloft, no
leather, greased or otherwise. I have been sailing this boat for about
17 years now.
There are undoubtedly other ways to do it, but as far as I know the
standard rigging for a spritsail is all on the mast. I assure you that
the mast can rotate in its step. I scanned some passages out of John
Leather's "Spritsails and Lugsails" and offer some of his comments:
/"The hole in the mast thwart should not fit /[and here I lost some text
in scanning]/ chafing piece of greased leather seized or sewn around it
to allow the mast to rotate in the step, which is desirable with small
spritsails."
/
/"The sprit is set up by passing the tail of the snotter through the
score in the sprit heel and then through the thimble, forming a purchase
which is swigged-up until wrinkles are thrown in the sail from tack to
peak, as in setting a gaff sail."/
When the sprit pole is 'swigged-up', the tension (and it is
considerable) is set relative to the mast. Since the pole is offset to
one side of the mast, if the mast did not turn, tension would change
when tacking and the sail, pole et. al. go from side to side. In
tacking, the mast does not come about all at once, rather it walks its
way around under the influence of the snotter and the movements of the
boat. Turning the mast by hand is not difficult, but it does take both
hands. /
/
/"The spritsail, mast, sprit and rigging is best first tried laid out on
the ground. The clew should be high and the tack low. Spritsail masts
should have good rake as this seems to help the sails set well and
usually improves the appearance of the rig in a small boat. Many small
spritsail boats had adjustable rake on at least the mainmast."
"The thumb cleat for the tack might be fitted just above the upper mast
support, as low as possible, to allow adjustment of the tack position.
The thumb cleat for the snotter is best positioned on the ground with
the sprit 'peaked-up' at its correct angle to set the sail. This cleat
should be as low as possible. The robands should be tied to the mast,
not too tightly."/
/"When everything seems satisfactory on the ground, the sail can be
furled for carrying or stowage by taking the sprit out of the snotter,
placing it parallel to the mast and, keeping the head of the sail taut,
throw the clew over the sprit, then roll the sail and sprit up to the
mast, maintaining an upward pressure on the peak so it will furl
tightly. The loose snotter is passed around the sail and mast and then a
clove hitch is passed around all. The sheet is coiled and made fast to
the tail of the snotter. The rig is then ready to be carried, stepped or
stored."/
/"A long narrow boat will probably be best with a rig of two or more
spritsails. It is usually best to make these sails of different areas,
with the larger as the foresail and the smaller the mizzen in a two
masted rig; or the mainsail larger than the foresail, and the mizzen
smallest in a three masted rig. If two masted, the full rig can be
carried in light winds and in stronger breezes the foresail can be
reefed. If the wind strengthens, the mizzen might be furled and
unstepped and the foresail be shifted slightly aft in a second step, to
preserve sail balance. This step can usefully give increased rake to the
mast. In strong winds the mizzen, only, could be set up, probably in the
same step and well raked. This reduction of sail area and a freshening
wind will usually require the centreboard to be lowered further. In the
now uncommon three masted rig the mainmast and sail is the first to be
furled or struck, leaving the fore and mizzen as a useful area for
stronger winds. If wind strength increases these are reefed or shifted
for the two sail rig."/
These passages show that the entire sprit rig can be set up outside of
the boat and easily be picked up and shifted about. I cannot remember
where I read it, but I have heard that just chucking the entire rig over
the side (but not losing hold of the sheet) makes a wonderful sea anchor.
/"When beaching a spritsail boat in a light onshore wind the sails can
be allowed to rotate to blow out forward; this is possible with the
rotary masts but undesirable in other conditions as retrieving the
sheets and retrimming the sails would be difficult afloat.
Alternatively, in a two masted spritsail boat, the mizzen is handed and
the foresail is brailed up as she runs for the shore."/
This is a step that I commonly take. I agree completely about
difficulty in retrieving the sheets and retrimming sails when afloat,
but it is a long way from being impossible. In gentle weather it is OK
just to unsnap the sheet from the sail, allowing it to blow out forward,
while you catch a fish, eat lunch or attend to other business. With a
bit more wind, getting all together again can be a chore and something
that I would not care to recommend trying in a tender boat. Care does
need to be taken not to get the sail wrapped around the mast.
/
"A sizeable sprit rig is not ideal for single-handed sailing, as to go
forward and unship the sprit from the snotter by hand is not easy if the
sprit is to leeward of the sail, and it may be difficult if it is to
windward, as once the heel is out of the snotter it tends to drive down
and could pierce the bottom of the boat in extreme conditions, when it
is best to direct the heel overboard."/
Ya' gotta be careful. And I agree completely with him here. I
sometimes think that a lug sail would be easier to use. All you have to
do is loose the halyard, and if the spar doesn't brain you on its way
down, the sail is in and you can do the housekeeping later. With the
sprit, you have togo to the mast, undo the snotter; the sprit heel
going overboard gives you more room and makes life easier. Then while
keeping the peak of the sail in check, get the pole inboard, then roll
the sail up to the mast. To furl I use a line for this that has an eye
in one end. Run the line around the mast/sail, put the bitter end
through the eye and spiral the line down the sail and secure it. If
everything is calm I use marline hitches, otherwise just spiral it down.
Then you can take the mast down. I grew tired of lifting the mast/sail
over the partner, so I installed a pair of hinges, replacing one if the
pins with a cotter pin, then cut the partner in half so I could hinge
the partner open. It helps.
All of this being said, I really don't know what ground rules apply for
a leg o' mutton rig with sprit boom. And I am sure that many sprit rigs
have worked well without a rotating mast. Good luck on whatever you
choose to do. There's always more than one way to skin a cat.
Calm Seas & A Prosperous Voyage
Malcolm
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
My Micro has two sprit sails with the mizzen very small and neither
mast is intended to rotate. The extra length of the sprit that
extends forward of the mast prevents the wrapping of the snotter from
being a problem in any normal range of sprit angles. You do not of
course want the sprit to wrap 360° around the mast.
Mark
mast is intended to rotate. The extra length of the sprit that
extends forward of the mast prevents the wrapping of the snotter from
being a problem in any normal range of sprit angles. You do not of
course want the sprit to wrap 360° around the mast.
Mark
On Aug 20, 2008, at 3:50 PM, nsimms wrote:
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, malcolmf <malcolmf@...> wrote:
> >For a sprit
> > controlled sail to function correctly, the mast must be free to
> turn.
> > If it didn't turn, the sprit & snotter would wind or unwind
> around the
> > mast on different tacks, giving different tension to the sail.
>
> Is this really true? I'm in the middle of building the leg o'mutton
> rig for a modified Nymph, and the Nymph plans seem to show the
> (square) mast wedged into the longitudinal thwart (which acts as a
> mast step), at the mast base.
>
> So I made my mast step (I have no thwart due to my customizations)
> such that the mast will be tapered/wedged in at the base and will not
> turn. It will thus be 'suspended' and kept off the 1/4" ply bottom of
> the boat. I haven't constructed the mast yet, so it's not too late to
> change this if the mast absolutely needs to rotate.
>
> Anybody else have experience with the small Bolger sprit rigs? Does
> your mast rotate or not?
>
> BTW, I was planning to make the snotter a la Dynamite's 'Instant
> Boatbuilding' book, and as 'alternate' spec'd in the Ruben's Nymph
> plans, with a thimble in a sling, through which the snotter passes.
> IIRC, Dynamite says this method is less prone to binding.
>
> Seems to me this ought to work freely enough not to require rotation
> of the mast...
>
> Neil S.
>
> P.S. Looking more closely at the Ruben's Nymph plans, it appears the
> mast on that design IS free to rotate, being round at the base, with
> the weight of the mast bearing on the partner via the mast chocks. Of
> course that's a bigger rig (59 sq ft vs 40 sq ft on Nymph). So now I'm
> not so sure which way to go :(.
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
It's hard to picture the snotter causing the mast to rotate much, what with
the friction at partners and step. Can someone with a big-ish snotter/sprit
rig chime in? Maybe greased leathers in those areas would help. And a
retaining collar clamped around the mast under the partners? - Bill K
_____
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
nsimms
Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 3:50 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Cartopper - rudder details and centreboard pivot
--- In bolger@yahoogroups. <mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com> com, malcolmf
<malcolmf@...> wrote:
rig for a modified Nymph, and the Nymph plans seem to show the
(square) mast wedged into the longitudinal thwart (which acts as a
mast step), at the mast base.
So I made my mast step (I have no thwart due to my customizations)
such that the mast will be tapered/wedged in at the base and will not
turn. It will thus be 'suspended' and kept off the 1/4" ply bottom of
the boat. I haven't constructed the mast yet, so it's not too late to
change this if the mast absolutely needs to rotate.
Anybody else have experience with the small Bolger sprit rigs? Does
your mast rotate or not?
BTW, I was planning to make the snotter a la Dynamite's 'Instant
Boatbuilding' book, and as 'alternate' spec'd in the Ruben's Nymph
plans, with a thimble in a sling, through which the snotter passes.
IIRC, Dynamite says this method is less prone to binding.
Seems to me this ought to work freely enough not to require rotation
of the mast...
Neil S.
P.S. Looking more closely at the Ruben's Nymph plans, it appears the
mast on that design IS free to rotate, being round at the base, with
the weight of the mast bearing on the partner via the mast chocks. Of
course that's a bigger rig (59 sq ft vs 40 sq ft on Nymph). So now I'm
not so sure which way to go :(.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
the friction at partners and step. Can someone with a big-ish snotter/sprit
rig chime in? Maybe greased leathers in those areas would help. And a
retaining collar clamped around the mast under the partners? - Bill K
_____
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
nsimms
Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 3:50 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Cartopper - rudder details and centreboard pivot
--- In bolger@yahoogroups. <mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com> com, malcolmf
<malcolmf@...> wrote:
>For a spritIs this really true? I'm in the middle of building the leg o'mutton
> controlled sail to function correctly, the mast must be free to turn.
> If it didn't turn, the sprit & snotter would wind or unwind around the
> mast on different tacks, giving different tension to the sail.
rig for a modified Nymph, and the Nymph plans seem to show the
(square) mast wedged into the longitudinal thwart (which acts as a
mast step), at the mast base.
So I made my mast step (I have no thwart due to my customizations)
such that the mast will be tapered/wedged in at the base and will not
turn. It will thus be 'suspended' and kept off the 1/4" ply bottom of
the boat. I haven't constructed the mast yet, so it's not too late to
change this if the mast absolutely needs to rotate.
Anybody else have experience with the small Bolger sprit rigs? Does
your mast rotate or not?
BTW, I was planning to make the snotter a la Dynamite's 'Instant
Boatbuilding' book, and as 'alternate' spec'd in the Ruben's Nymph
plans, with a thimble in a sling, through which the snotter passes.
IIRC, Dynamite says this method is less prone to binding.
Seems to me this ought to work freely enough not to require rotation
of the mast...
Neil S.
P.S. Looking more closely at the Ruben's Nymph plans, it appears the
mast on that design IS free to rotate, being round at the base, with
the weight of the mast bearing on the partner via the mast chocks. Of
course that's a bigger rig (59 sq ft vs 40 sq ft on Nymph). So now I'm
not so sure which way to go :(.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, malcolmf <malcolmf@...> wrote:
rig for a modified Nymph, and the Nymph plans seem to show the
(square) mast wedged into the longitudinal thwart (which acts as a
mast step), at the mast base.
So I made my mast step (I have no thwart due to my customizations)
such that the mast will be tapered/wedged in at the base and will not
turn. It will thus be 'suspended' and kept off the 1/4" ply bottom of
the boat. I haven't constructed the mast yet, so it's not too late to
change this if the mast absolutely needs to rotate.
Anybody else have experience with the small Bolger sprit rigs? Does
your mast rotate or not?
BTW, I was planning to make the snotter a la Dynamite's 'Instant
Boatbuilding' book, and as 'alternate' spec'd in the Ruben's Nymph
plans, with a thimble in a sling, through which the snotter passes.
IIRC, Dynamite says this method is less prone to binding.
Seems to me this ought to work freely enough not to require rotation
of the mast...
Neil S.
P.S. Looking more closely at the Ruben's Nymph plans, it appears the
mast on that design IS free to rotate, being round at the base, with
the weight of the mast bearing on the partner via the mast chocks. Of
course that's a bigger rig (59 sq ft vs 40 sq ft on Nymph). So now I'm
not so sure which way to go :(.
>For a spritIs this really true? I'm in the middle of building the leg o'mutton
> controlled sail to function correctly, the mast must be free to turn.
> If it didn't turn, the sprit & snotter would wind or unwind around the
> mast on different tacks, giving different tension to the sail.
rig for a modified Nymph, and the Nymph plans seem to show the
(square) mast wedged into the longitudinal thwart (which acts as a
mast step), at the mast base.
So I made my mast step (I have no thwart due to my customizations)
such that the mast will be tapered/wedged in at the base and will not
turn. It will thus be 'suspended' and kept off the 1/4" ply bottom of
the boat. I haven't constructed the mast yet, so it's not too late to
change this if the mast absolutely needs to rotate.
Anybody else have experience with the small Bolger sprit rigs? Does
your mast rotate or not?
BTW, I was planning to make the snotter a la Dynamite's 'Instant
Boatbuilding' book, and as 'alternate' spec'd in the Ruben's Nymph
plans, with a thimble in a sling, through which the snotter passes.
IIRC, Dynamite says this method is less prone to binding.
Seems to me this ought to work freely enough not to require rotation
of the mast...
Neil S.
P.S. Looking more closely at the Ruben's Nymph plans, it appears the
mast on that design IS free to rotate, being round at the base, with
the weight of the mast bearing on the partner via the mast chocks. Of
course that's a bigger rig (59 sq ft vs 40 sq ft on Nymph). So now I'm
not so sure which way to go :(.
Andrew;
Re: #3
I think that the mast simply goes through a hole in the deck, which acts
as a partner, and on to the step at the bottom of the boat.
Apparently the Cartopper can be rigged either with a leg o' mutton or a
sprit sail. In either event, there is a 'sprit' rigging involved:
the boom on the leg o' mutton or the pole on the sprit sail. In sprit
rigging, tensioning of the sail is provided by the snotter acting on the
end of a spar. All of the rigging is fixed to the mast - nothing
secures to the deck. A loop in the end of the snotter engages a notch
in the end of the pole, runs up to a ring/block/thumb or whatever on the
mast and then down to a cleat on the mast. There can be variants of
exactly how the lines run, but basically, that's it. For a sprit
controlled sail to function correctly, the mast must be free to turn.
If it didn't turn, the sprit & snotter would wind or unwind around the
mast on different tacks, giving different tension to the sail.
The study plans I saw showed something on the mast & I could not figure
out what it was. Something to do with rigging the snotter, I suspect.
If your plans include both the leg o' mutton & sprit sail, are the mast
fittings the same for both?
Calm Seas & A Prosperous Voyage
Malcolm
andrew_kieren wrote:
Re: #3
I think that the mast simply goes through a hole in the deck, which acts
as a partner, and on to the step at the bottom of the boat.
Apparently the Cartopper can be rigged either with a leg o' mutton or a
sprit sail. In either event, there is a 'sprit' rigging involved:
the boom on the leg o' mutton or the pole on the sprit sail. In sprit
rigging, tensioning of the sail is provided by the snotter acting on the
end of a spar. All of the rigging is fixed to the mast - nothing
secures to the deck. A loop in the end of the snotter engages a notch
in the end of the pole, runs up to a ring/block/thumb or whatever on the
mast and then down to a cleat on the mast. There can be variants of
exactly how the lines run, but basically, that's it. For a sprit
controlled sail to function correctly, the mast must be free to turn.
If it didn't turn, the sprit & snotter would wind or unwind around the
mast on different tacks, giving different tension to the sail.
The study plans I saw showed something on the mast & I could not figure
out what it was. Something to do with rigging the snotter, I suspect.
If your plans include both the leg o' mutton & sprit sail, are the mast
fittings the same for both?
Calm Seas & A Prosperous Voyage
Malcolm
andrew_kieren wrote:
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> 3) neither of us could understand the plan details of how the mast
> attaches to the foredeck, or indeed if it does. There is a detail in
> the plan of some complicated looking cleat. We would appreciate any
> ideas here too.
>
> Thanks in anticipation,
>
> Andrew
>
> .
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG -http://www.avg.com
> Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.0/1602 - Release Date: 8/9/2008 1:22 PM
>
With amazing luck I found the link in files I was looking for, John
built two cartoppers I think here is one in summer California Sacremento
Delta wx, not noted for calm weather.
*http://tinyurl.com/6ajpnj*
orhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/files/Bolger%20Cartopper/
Its how summer sailing is supposed to be
HJ
nordski62 wrote:
built two cartoppers I think here is one in summer California Sacremento
Delta wx, not noted for calm weather.
*http://tinyurl.com/6ajpnj*
orhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/files/Bolger%20Cartopper/
Its how summer sailing is supposed to be
HJ
nordski62 wrote:
> I'm newbie to the group. Just finished Bolger's Canoe and getting ready to build the[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Cartopper over the Winter and have been interested in this conversation about the rudder.
> Has anyone tried the kick up rudder as described in an article at duckworks?http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/04/s/articles/kick-up/index.cfmIt looks like a pretty
> good idea. I've read a few posts in the archives about the Cartopper and some say that it isn't
> the best sailer. The seat configuration makes the boat difficult to move around in and the
> sprit rig is a handful. Any comments? Aaron
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
I'm newbie to the group. Just finished Bolger's Canoe and getting ready to build the
Cartopper over the Winter and have been interested in this conversation about the rudder.
Has anyone tried the kick up rudder as described in an article at duckworks?http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/04/s/articles/kick-up/index.cfmIt looks like a pretty
good idea. I've read a few posts in the archives about the Cartopper and some say that it isn't
the best sailer. The seat configuration makes the boat difficult to move around in and the
sprit rig is a handful. Any comments? Aaron
Cartopper over the Winter and have been interested in this conversation about the rudder.
Has anyone tried the kick up rudder as described in an article at duckworks?http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/04/s/articles/kick-up/index.cfmIt looks like a pretty
good idea. I've read a few posts in the archives about the Cartopper and some say that it isn't
the best sailer. The seat configuration makes the boat difficult to move around in and the
sprit rig is a handful. Any comments? Aaron
For the rudder blade on my Cartopper, I epoxied in a piece of formica
which widened the slot enough to cope.
For the centreboard pivot , I drilled a hole through both sides, popped in
a short piece of stainledd steel, and then screwed a small plywood pad on
each side. The pivot bar was not fastened with glue or anything, and the
ply pads located it. The gasket used was a small piece of duck tape, on
each side.
I also lined the iside of the centreboard case with a few strips of Formica
in the interests of slipperyness.
which widened the slot enough to cope.
For the centreboard pivot , I drilled a hole through both sides, popped in
a short piece of stainledd steel, and then screwed a small plywood pad on
each side. The pivot bar was not fastened with glue or anything, and the
ply pads located it. The gasket used was a small piece of duck tape, on
each side.
I also lined the iside of the centreboard case with a few strips of Formica
in the interests of slipperyness.
> 1. The rudder blade should be snug in its slot.IMHO, this is one of the places that the Bolger drive for simplicity
crosses the line into degraded functionality. There are plenty of ways
of rigging a shock cord hold down.
One of the big advantages is that you can launch off a beach with the
rudder blade raised, then lower it by tugging on the shock cord and
slipped the loop on the end over a hook. With the Bolger friction
method, you either have to launch in deep water so the blade can be
down (and it's a big blade), or you have to lean over the transom to
push it down at a time when you want to be busy doing something else.
Answers:
1. The rudder blade should be snug in its slot. This is a kick-up
rudder and it is friction as adjusted by the pivot bolt that keeps it
down. Build it just as shown.
2. I used a short piece of stainless bar-stock and epoxied it in
place. The center-board has a notch so that it can be removed.
3. The mast does not attach to the foredeck. Just stick it in the hole
and go sailing.
Good luck, and don't forget to post some photos.
Paul
1. The rudder blade should be snug in its slot. This is a kick-up
rudder and it is friction as adjusted by the pivot bolt that keeps it
down. Build it just as shown.
2. I used a short piece of stainless bar-stock and epoxied it in
place. The center-board has a notch so that it can be removed.
3. The mast does not attach to the foredeck. Just stick it in the hole
and go sailing.
Good luck, and don't forget to post some photos.
Paul
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "andrew_kieren" <a.c.l.yen@...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> A mate and I have started to build a cartopper (one each) for our kids
> to learn to sail in. We have got as far as cutting out the panels from
> 1/4" marine ply and everything is proceeding to plan (touch marine ply).
>
> We have come across a few things we couldn't understand from the plans
> or from Dynamite Payson's instructions from Woodenboat Magazine.
>
> 1) the rudder is 2 pieces of 1/4" ply laminated = 1/2" plus paint etc.
> thick. How wide do we make the "slot" between the rudder cheek
> pieces? The plans seem to show two 1/4" spacers between the cheek
> pieces - but that would make the slot 1/2" minus paint etc. Will the
> rudder blade still fit between the cheeks and pivot smoothly? Do we
> need to make the space larger? What have others used for a pivot bolt?
>
> 2) what should we use for the centreboard (centerboard) pivot? I
> remember having a Heron once that just had a bolt with some rubber
> washers under the head and nut. It wasn't satisfactory because it
> leaked if it was too loose and you couldn't do it up too tight without
> squashing the casing. What have others done here?
>
> 3) neither of us could understand the plan details of how the mast
> attaches to the foredeck, or indeed if it does. There is a detail in
> the plan of some complicated looking cleat. We would appreciate any
> ideas here too.
>
> Thanks in anticipation,
>
> Andrew
>
> PS. this is our second project, see our first project:
>http://www.boatbuilder.com.au/images/stories/mag/smiggy.pdf
>
Thanks Alan for the tip about the JWbuilders group. I couldn't find
what you were referring to - but I discovered all sorts of other
interesting information while looking!
Andrew
what you were referring to - but I discovered all sorts of other
interesting information while looking!
Andrew
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Alan J." <aaar@...> wrote:
>
> G'day Andrew
>
> I'm terribly inaccurate with these things, so I'd build the rudder
blade
> first then build the stock to fit...
>
> John Welsford details a very good centreboard pivot system in the
> jwbuilders yahoogroup files area.
>
> No idea on the mast securing. I'd imagine the snotter would be led
> to the partner & tied off. This would also hold the mast in its
step.
>
> cheers
> Alan J.
>
>
> ---- andrew_kieren <a.c.l.yen@...> wrote:
> >
> > 1) the rudder is 2 pieces of 1/4" ply laminated = 1/2" plus paint
etc.
> > thick. How wide do we make the "slot" between the rudder cheek
> > pieces? The plans seem to show two 1/4" spacers between the
cheek
> > pieces - but that would make the slot 1/2" minus paint etc. Will
the
> > rudder blade still fit between the cheeks and pivot smoothly? Do
we
> > need to make the space larger? What have others used for a pivot
bolt?
> >
> > 2) what should we use for the centreboard (centerboard) pivot? I
>
G'day Andrew
I'm terribly inaccurate with these things, so I'd build the rudder blade
first then build the stock to fit...
John Welsford details a very good centreboard pivot system in the
jwbuilders yahoogroup files area.
No idea on the mast securing. I'd imagine the snotter would be led
to the partner & tied off. This would also hold the mast in its step.
cheers
Alan J.
---- andrew_kieren <a.c.l.yen@...> wrote:
I'm terribly inaccurate with these things, so I'd build the rudder blade
first then build the stock to fit...
John Welsford details a very good centreboard pivot system in the
jwbuilders yahoogroup files area.
No idea on the mast securing. I'd imagine the snotter would be led
to the partner & tied off. This would also hold the mast in its step.
cheers
Alan J.
---- andrew_kieren <a.c.l.yen@...> wrote:
>
> 1) the rudder is 2 pieces of 1/4" ply laminated = 1/2" plus paint etc.
> thick. How wide do we make the "slot" between the rudder cheek
> pieces? The plans seem to show two 1/4" spacers between the cheek
> pieces - but that would make the slot 1/2" minus paint etc. Will the
> rudder blade still fit between the cheeks and pivot smoothly? Do we
> need to make the space larger? What have others used for a pivot bolt?
>
> 2) what should we use for the centreboard (centerboard) pivot? I
I have just joined this site...I'm sure you will find the help you need...Best of luck with your boat...Don
--- On Mon, 8/11/08, andrew_kieren <a.c.l.yen@...> wrote:
From: andrew_kieren <a.c.l.yen@...>
Subject: [bolger] Cartopper - rudder details and centreboard pivot
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, August 11, 2008, 8:43 PM
Hi,
A mate and I have started to build a cartopper (one each) for our kids
to learn to sail in. We have got as far as cutting out the panels from
1/4" marine ply and everything is proceeding to plan (touch marine ply).
We have come across a few things we couldn't understand from the plans
or from Dynamite Payson's instructions from Woodenboat Magazine.
1) the rudder is 2 pieces of 1/4" ply laminated = 1/2" plus paint etc.
thick. How wide do we make the "slot" between the rudder cheek
pieces? The plans seem to show two 1/4" spacers between the cheek
pieces - but that would make the slot 1/2" minus paint etc. Will the
rudder blade still fit between the cheeks and pivot smoothly? Do we
need to make the space larger? What have others used for a pivot bolt?
2) what should we use for the centreboard (centerboard) pivot? I
remember having a Heron once that just had a bolt with some rubber
washers under the head and nut. It wasn't satisfactory because it
leaked if it was too loose and you couldn't do it up too tight without
squashing the casing. What have others done here?
3) neither of us could understand the plan details of how the mast
attaches to the foredeck, or indeed if it does. There is a detail in
the plan of some complicated looking cleat. We would appreciate any
ideas here too.
Thanks in anticipation,
Andrew
PS. this is our second project, see our first project:
http://www.boatbuilder.com.au/ images/stories/ mag/smiggy. pdf
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Hi,
A mate and I have started to build a cartopper (one each) for our kids
to learn to sail in. We have got as far as cutting out the panels from
1/4" marine ply and everything is proceeding to plan (touch marine ply).
We have come across a few things we couldn't understand from the plans
or from Dynamite Payson's instructions from Woodenboat Magazine.
1) the rudder is 2 pieces of 1/4" ply laminated = 1/2" plus paint etc.
thick. How wide do we make the "slot" between the rudder cheek
pieces? The plans seem to show two 1/4" spacers between the cheek
pieces - but that would make the slot 1/2" minus paint etc. Will the
rudder blade still fit between the cheeks and pivot smoothly? Do we
need to make the space larger? What have others used for a pivot bolt?
2) what should we use for the centreboard (centerboard) pivot? I
remember having a Heron once that just had a bolt with some rubber
washers under the head and nut. It wasn't satisfactory because it
leaked if it was too loose and you couldn't do it up too tight without
squashing the casing. What have others done here?
3) neither of us could understand the plan details of how the mast
attaches to the foredeck, or indeed if it does. There is a detail in
the plan of some complicated looking cleat. We would appreciate any
ideas here too.
Thanks in anticipation,
Andrew
PS. this is our second project, see our first project:
http://www.boatbuilder.com.au/images/stories/mag/smiggy.pdf
A mate and I have started to build a cartopper (one each) for our kids
to learn to sail in. We have got as far as cutting out the panels from
1/4" marine ply and everything is proceeding to plan (touch marine ply).
We have come across a few things we couldn't understand from the plans
or from Dynamite Payson's instructions from Woodenboat Magazine.
1) the rudder is 2 pieces of 1/4" ply laminated = 1/2" plus paint etc.
thick. How wide do we make the "slot" between the rudder cheek
pieces? The plans seem to show two 1/4" spacers between the cheek
pieces - but that would make the slot 1/2" minus paint etc. Will the
rudder blade still fit between the cheeks and pivot smoothly? Do we
need to make the space larger? What have others used for a pivot bolt?
2) what should we use for the centreboard (centerboard) pivot? I
remember having a Heron once that just had a bolt with some rubber
washers under the head and nut. It wasn't satisfactory because it
leaked if it was too loose and you couldn't do it up too tight without
squashing the casing. What have others done here?
3) neither of us could understand the plan details of how the mast
attaches to the foredeck, or indeed if it does. There is a detail in
the plan of some complicated looking cleat. We would appreciate any
ideas here too.
Thanks in anticipation,
Andrew
PS. this is our second project, see our first project:
http://www.boatbuilder.com.au/images/stories/mag/smiggy.pdf