Re: I use strip building with canoes and small row boats
Bill, Bruce, & all . . .
Not to be pedantic, but here is what I learned from experience & research .
. .
'Wood Flour' is my filler-of-choice for most filleting work. However I have
just about 'everything' on the shelf - 'Horses for Courses' as the Limey's
say.
The WF is so cheap - and now almost universally available - it's not worth
the effort to empty dust collectors & sift the contents. {However I DO keep
a bucket of course stuff from the table saw for 'stuffing' BIG HOLES} Oddly
enough WF is also a 'thixotropic material. That being said, I still add a
bit of fumed silica when I want a 'stiff' mixture. They are BOTH what I term
a 'STRUCTURAL' filler.
When it comes to 'fairing' & 'sandability' - I turn to what I call
'COSMETIC' fillers. Talc, 'Micro-Balloons, 'Q-Cell', & plastic fibers {the
MOST 'sandable'} fall into this category. If these will be the 'last coat'
on a hull project, I usually make them the 'next-to-last' coat . . . by
giving a 'skim coat' of the MUCH harder fumed silica, followed by at least
one 'seal coat' of unthickened epoxy
{Some time ago I wrote a Column for 'Duckworks Magazine' . . . one month it
was all about the various 'Fillers' for epoxy. For more detail - look it up}
Regards & Good Luck,
Ron Magen
Backyard Boatshop
2i. Re: I use strip building with canoes and small row boats
Posted by: "William Page"billybouy2@...billybouy2
I've found sanding dust from the collecting bags on orbital and beltsanders
to be consistently fine and uniform. Plus, the way I work, with unlimited
availability!
Not to be pedantic, but here is what I learned from experience & research .
. .
'Wood Flour' is my filler-of-choice for most filleting work. However I have
just about 'everything' on the shelf - 'Horses for Courses' as the Limey's
say.
The WF is so cheap - and now almost universally available - it's not worth
the effort to empty dust collectors & sift the contents. {However I DO keep
a bucket of course stuff from the table saw for 'stuffing' BIG HOLES} Oddly
enough WF is also a 'thixotropic material. That being said, I still add a
bit of fumed silica when I want a 'stiff' mixture. They are BOTH what I term
a 'STRUCTURAL' filler.
When it comes to 'fairing' & 'sandability' - I turn to what I call
'COSMETIC' fillers. Talc, 'Micro-Balloons, 'Q-Cell', & plastic fibers {the
MOST 'sandable'} fall into this category. If these will be the 'last coat'
on a hull project, I usually make them the 'next-to-last' coat . . . by
giving a 'skim coat' of the MUCH harder fumed silica, followed by at least
one 'seal coat' of unthickened epoxy
{Some time ago I wrote a Column for 'Duckworks Magazine' . . . one month it
was all about the various 'Fillers' for epoxy. For more detail - look it up}
Regards & Good Luck,
Ron Magen
Backyard Boatshop
2i. Re: I use strip building with canoes and small row boats
Posted by: "William Page"billybouy2@...billybouy2
I've found sanding dust from the collecting bags on orbital and beltsanders
to be consistently fine and uniform. Plus, the way I work, with unlimited
availability!
--- On Fri, 8/22/08, Bruce Hallman <bruce@...> wrote:
{snip}
In my opinion, fumed silica (Cab-o-sil) is only worthwhile when you need a
'no-sag' epoxy additive and never makes sense as a epoxy filler. {snip}
The problem with using sawdust as a filler for improving sand-ability, is
that home made sawdust has an uneven texture. {snip}
My favorite by far for sand-ablity is the 'micro-balloon' powder. . .
.because Cab-o-sil makes epoxy much harder. {snip}
I've found sanding dust from the collecting bags on orbital and beltsanders to be consistently fine and uniform. Plus, the way I work, with unlimited availability!
Ciao for Niao,
Bill in MN
Ciao for Niao,
Bill in MN
--- On Fri, 8/22/08, Bruce Hallman <bruce@...> wrote:
From: Bruce Hallman <bruce@...>
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: I use strip building with canoes and small row boats
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, August 22, 2008, 1:29 PM
In my opinion, fumed silica (Cab-o-sil) is only worthwhile when you
need a 'no-sag' epoxy additive and never makes sense as a epoxy
filler.
The problem with using sawdust as a filler for improving sand-ability,
is that home made sawdust has an uneven texture. All it takes is one
'big chunk' to ruin your ability to use a trowel or squeegee to smooth
the surface of the wet epoxy.
My favorite by far for sand-ablity is the 'micro-balloon' powder. It
is very quick sanding, and allows a a fine 'feather' edge. It also is
good for avoiding sandpaper gum-up. Additionally, I believe that it
doesn't dull the tooth of sandpaper as fast as Cab-o-Sil. (And, we
all know, that sandpaper is an often overlooked expense when budgeting
boat building.)
If you want an extra strong joint, perhaps microballons are not the
best choice, because Cab-o-sil makes epoxy much harder. (But I am of
the belief that if you need an extra strong joint, you should use
nails, screws or bolts, and not rely on the glue, regardless of how
strong the glue may be.)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
In my opinion, fumed silica (Cab-o-sil) is only worthwhile when you
need a 'no-sag' epoxy additive and never makes sense as a epoxy
filler.
The problem with using sawdust as a filler for improving sand-ability,
is that home made sawdust has an uneven texture. All it takes is one
'big chunk' to ruin your ability to use a trowel or squeegee to smooth
the surface of the wet epoxy.
My favorite by far for sand-ablity is the 'micro-balloon' powder. It
is very quick sanding, and allows a a fine 'feather' edge. It also is
good for avoiding sandpaper gum-up. Additionally, I believe that it
doesn't dull the tooth of sandpaper as fast as Cab-o-Sil. (And, we
all know, that sandpaper is an often overlooked expense when budgeting
boat building.)
If you want an extra strong joint, perhaps microballons are not the
best choice, because Cab-o-sil makes epoxy much harder. (But I am of
the belief that if you need an extra strong joint, you should use
nails, screws or bolts, and not rely on the glue, regardless of how
strong the glue may be.)
need a 'no-sag' epoxy additive and never makes sense as a epoxy
filler.
The problem with using sawdust as a filler for improving sand-ability,
is that home made sawdust has an uneven texture. All it takes is one
'big chunk' to ruin your ability to use a trowel or squeegee to smooth
the surface of the wet epoxy.
My favorite by far for sand-ablity is the 'micro-balloon' powder. It
is very quick sanding, and allows a a fine 'feather' edge. It also is
good for avoiding sandpaper gum-up. Additionally, I believe that it
doesn't dull the tooth of sandpaper as fast as Cab-o-Sil. (And, we
all know, that sandpaper is an often overlooked expense when budgeting
boat building.)
If you want an extra strong joint, perhaps microballons are not the
best choice, because Cab-o-sil makes epoxy much harder. (But I am of
the belief that if you need an extra strong joint, you should use
nails, screws or bolts, and not rely on the glue, regardless of how
strong the glue may be.)
I agree Mark, and actually I use both. I use wood sanding dust for
filling gaps and such but cabosile for finshcoats and such it really
does make a nice finish. I have done some filling on old boats using
saw dust. It works good but the finsh is poor so I went over that with a
cabosil finish. It's all good stuff in it's place. I recently made
some nuts for my lathe feed screws from epoxy and chopped plastic
fibers. I figured chopped glass would wear the screws from constantly
running on them. Works like a charm. I havent used them enough to know
about the wear yet. Anyway there is another good use for epoxy and all
manner of things can be cast from it.. The good news about that is it
does not shrink when it hardens sbecause it does not depend on
evaporation for hardening. I would think that all manner of castings
could be made for boats from epoxy and different kinds of fillers.
Depending on how much filler a wide range of very light but weaker to
very dense and strong but likely heavier hardware can be cast.
Doug
Mark Albanese wrote:
filling gaps and such but cabosile for finshcoats and such it really
does make a nice finish. I have done some filling on old boats using
saw dust. It works good but the finsh is poor so I went over that with a
cabosil finish. It's all good stuff in it's place. I recently made
some nuts for my lathe feed screws from epoxy and chopped plastic
fibers. I figured chopped glass would wear the screws from constantly
running on them. Works like a charm. I havent used them enough to know
about the wear yet. Anyway there is another good use for epoxy and all
manner of things can be cast from it.. The good news about that is it
does not shrink when it hardens sbecause it does not depend on
evaporation for hardening. I would think that all manner of castings
could be made for boats from epoxy and different kinds of fillers.
Depending on how much filler a wide range of very light but weaker to
very dense and strong but likely heavier hardware can be cast.
Doug
Mark Albanese wrote:
>
> I think the fumed silica, like Cabosil, makes a much smoother and (if
> you do it in time) better sanding fill than wood floor. It's quite
> strong.
> Mark
>
> > I can't emagine why it would be desirable to replace wood
> > flour that will come out of your sander for free with something that
> > costs money is desirable unless it's lighter or stronger or
> > something??
> >
> > Doug
> >
>
>
I think the fumed silica, like Cabosil, makes a much smoother and (if
you do it in time) better sanding fill than wood floor. It's quite
strong.
Mark
you do it in time) better sanding fill than wood floor. It's quite
strong.
Mark
> I can't emagine why it would be desirable to replace wood
> flour that will come out of your sander for free with something that
> costs money is desirable unless it's lighter or stronger or
> something??
>
> Doug
>
OPPPS Test show that glass bubbles and micro ballones weaken epoxy
structures and so it is not recomended for fillets or as a epoxy
filler where strength may be critical.
Jon
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jon & Wanda(Tink)" <windyjon@...>
wrote:
structures and so it is not recomended for fillets or as a epoxy
filler where strength may be critical.
Jon
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jon & Wanda(Tink)" <windyjon@...>
wrote:
>me
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Douglas Pollard <dougpol1@> wrote:
> >
> > Seems to me that round bubbles would weaken the resin while wood
> > fibers,plastic or chopped glass or some other fiber type filler
> would
> > strengthen the epoxy. Don't know this but it seems likely to
> thatreplace
> > round beads of glass with no odd shapes to create a mechanical
> bond
> > would be bad. I can't emagine why it would be desirable to
> wood
> > flour that will come out of your sander for free with something
> that
> > costs money is desirable unless it's lighter or stronger or
> something??
>
>
>
> > Doug
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Douglas Pollard <dougpol1@...> wrote:
>would
> Seems to me that round bubbles would weaken the resin while wood
> fibers,plastic or chopped glass or some other fiber type filler
> strengthen the epoxy. Don't know this but it seems likely to methat
> round beads of glass with no odd shapes to create a mechanicalbond
> would be bad. I can't emagine why it would be desirable to replacewood
> flour that will come out of your sander for free with somethingthat
> costs money is desirable unless it's lighter or stronger orsomething??
>construction.
> Doug
>
>
>
>
>
> Bachmann wrote:
> >
> > I have been wondering how glass bubbles would work for strip
> > Using most any glue to set the strips in place and trowelling amix of
> > epoxyreplacement for
> > and glass beads into the cracks.
> >
> > A few years back Dave Carnell recommended that mix as a
> > wood- flour for fillets. I've tried it for a few small projectsand
> > suspectThe mix
> > that it would make a very good gap filler to strip construction.
> > that I have tried is about 2/3rds bubbles to epoxy by volume andhas about
> > the same specific gravity as wood.bead/cove
> >
> > Maybe somebody here has tried it and will chime in.
> >
> > Ed B
> >
> > >> air ghun Wrote
> > >>I don't know what thickness the strips will be but I will
> > them.so to see
> > The boat is a fishermen's launch 21'4"
> >
> > >>glassed inside and out. I should have the plans next month or
> > the thickness. I was told by theit's
> >
> > >>gentleman who built one that the strips were 5/8-3/4 thick.
> > >>
> > >>Ive been using Gorrilla glue since it came out and love it but
> > not atesting of
> > gap filling glue so to speak. It does gap
> >
> > >>fill but looses most of it's strenght. Fine Woodworking did a
> > it and found you would be better witha gap.
> >
> > >>titebond then with Gorrilla glue or Erothane glues if there is
> > Epoxy did the best in the gap test.
> > >>
> > >>Mike.
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
>
Seems to me that round bubbles would weaken the resin while wood
fibers,plastic or chopped glass or some other fiber type filler would
strengthen the epoxy. Don't know this but it seems likely to me that
round beads of glass with no odd shapes to create a mechanical bond
would be bad. I can't emagine why it would be desirable to replace wood
flour that will come out of your sander for free with something that
costs money is desirable unless it's lighter or stronger or something??
Doug
Bachmann wrote:
fibers,plastic or chopped glass or some other fiber type filler would
strengthen the epoxy. Don't know this but it seems likely to me that
round beads of glass with no odd shapes to create a mechanical bond
would be bad. I can't emagine why it would be desirable to replace wood
flour that will come out of your sander for free with something that
costs money is desirable unless it's lighter or stronger or something??
Doug
Bachmann wrote:
>
> I have been wondering how glass bubbles would work for strip construction.
> Using most any glue to set the strips in place and trowelling a mix of
> epoxy
> and glass beads into the cracks.
>
> A few years back Dave Carnell recommended that mix as a replacement for
> wood- flour for fillets. I've tried it for a few small projects and
> suspect
> that it would make a very good gap filler to strip construction. The mix
> that I have tried is about 2/3rds bubbles to epoxy by volume and has about
> the same specific gravity as wood.
>
> Maybe somebody here has tried it and will chime in.
>
> Ed B
>
> >> air ghun Wrote
> >>I don't know what thickness the strips will be but I will bead/cove
> them.
> The boat is a fishermen's launch 21'4"
>
> >>glassed inside and out. I should have the plans next month or so to see
> the thickness. I was told by the
>
> >>gentleman who built one that the strips were 5/8-3/4 thick.
> >>
> >>Ive been using Gorrilla glue since it came out and love it but it's
> not a
> gap filling glue so to speak. It does gap
>
> >>fill but looses most of it's strenght. Fine Woodworking did a testing of
> it and found you would be better with
>
> >>titebond then with Gorrilla glue or Erothane glues if there is a gap.
> Epoxy did the best in the gap test.
> >>
> >>Mike.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
I have been wondering how glass bubbles would work for strip construction.
Using most any glue to set the strips in place and trowelling a mix of epoxy
and glass beads into the cracks.
A few years back Dave Carnell recommended that mix as a replacement for
wood- flour for fillets. I've tried it for a few small projects and suspect
that it would make a very good gap filler to strip construction. The mix
that I have tried is about 2/3rds bubbles to epoxy by volume and has about
the same specific gravity as wood.
Maybe somebody here has tried it and will chime in.
Ed B
Using most any glue to set the strips in place and trowelling a mix of epoxy
and glass beads into the cracks.
A few years back Dave Carnell recommended that mix as a replacement for
wood- flour for fillets. I've tried it for a few small projects and suspect
that it would make a very good gap filler to strip construction. The mix
that I have tried is about 2/3rds bubbles to epoxy by volume and has about
the same specific gravity as wood.
Maybe somebody here has tried it and will chime in.
Ed B
>> air ghun WroteThe boat is a fishermen's launch 21'4"
>>I don't know what thickness the strips will be but I will bead/cove them.
>>glassed inside and out. I should have the plans next month or so to seethe thickness. I was told by the
>>gentleman who built one that the strips were 5/8-3/4 thick.gap filling glue so to speak. It does gap
>>
>>Ive been using Gorrilla glue since it came out and love it but it's not a
>>fill but looses most of it's strenght. Fine Woodworking did a testing ofit and found you would be better with
>>titebond then with Gorrilla glue or Erothane glues if there is a gap.Epoxy did the best in the gap test.
>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>Mike.
air ghun wrote:
glassed over outside and several coats of epoxy inside but no glass. I
just didnot see any reason for glassing the interior. Though it might be
needed in a work boat where it might take a beating. I did not use bead
and cove. I beveled the upper edges with a disk sander. Lots of work
and I likely would not do it that way again. I found it not too hard
to learn to fit the planks with the disk sander but time consuming. I
usually could get on 4strips on one side in a six hour day then did the
other side the next day. Took a while to get her planked but makes a
nice job when finished. I thing the virtical curve and for an aft
curve(compond makes for a really strong boat. I have seen a couple
boats that are straight sided that were stripped planked. I would built
those out of plywood as I can't see the reason or advantage in strip
building unless it's to allow compound curves. Anyway dog gone happy
with mine. I did use epoxy on the strips down low but above the water I
used tight bond, but I really don't think that was needed.
The big thing is to glue up with edge grain out. I used longleaf
yellow pine and accidently tried to put a few on with flat grain out and
new right away I had them wrong because they broke with little effort on
my part bending them.
Doug
Doug
>I built Steve Redmonds Elver, a cnoe yaw 20ft long. I used titebond III
> I don't know what thickness the strips will be but I will bead/cove
> them. The boat is a fishermen's launch 21'4" glassed inside and out. I
> should have the plans next month or so to see the thickness. I was
> told by the gentleman who built one that the strips were 5/8-3/4 thick.
>
> Ive been using Gorrilla glue since it came out and love it but it's
> not a gap filling glue so to speak. It does gap fill but looses most
> of it's strenght. Fine Woodworking did a testing of it and found you
> would be better with titebond then with Gorrilla glue or Erothane
> glues if there is a gap. Epoxy did the best in the gap test.
>
> Mike.
>
> james caldwell <jcaldwell29@...
> <mailto:jcaldwell29%40sbcglobal.net>> wrote:
> Titebond II can be used up to 3/8" (coverd with glass set in epoxy)
> Thicker than that and you should use gap filling stuff like thickened
> Epoxy or Gorilla Original.
> Larger stippers use a lower thickness/width ratio mostly square from
> 3/4" x 3/4" and up - but I know Joe Norton in Green Lake, WI did a
> great job on a 30+ footer that used 1.25' thick (up to) 2.5" wide.
> p.s. if you want a completely fair hull, the mold must be absolutely
> perfect with close spaced mold frames if you use bead and cove,
> Otherwise, do not use bead and cove, naturally fair each strip and
> bevel the edges for fit. Use a surform to fair out carefully.
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com<mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com>, air
> ghun <airghun@...> wrote:
> >
> > is there any difference other then thicker strips in a bigger
> boat? I use TitebondII for bonding the strips with the smaller boats
> is it the same with a 21ft'er? or is epoxy used for the bigger boats?
> >
> > Thanks
> > Mike
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
glassed over outside and several coats of epoxy inside but no glass. I
just didnot see any reason for glassing the interior. Though it might be
needed in a work boat where it might take a beating. I did not use bead
and cove. I beveled the upper edges with a disk sander. Lots of work
and I likely would not do it that way again. I found it not too hard
to learn to fit the planks with the disk sander but time consuming. I
usually could get on 4strips on one side in a six hour day then did the
other side the next day. Took a while to get her planked but makes a
nice job when finished. I thing the virtical curve and for an aft
curve(compond makes for a really strong boat. I have seen a couple
boats that are straight sided that were stripped planked. I would built
those out of plywood as I can't see the reason or advantage in strip
building unless it's to allow compound curves. Anyway dog gone happy
with mine. I did use epoxy on the strips down low but above the water I
used tight bond, but I really don't think that was needed.
The big thing is to glue up with edge grain out. I used longleaf
yellow pine and accidently tried to put a few on with flat grain out and
new right away I had them wrong because they broke with little effort on
my part bending them.
Doug
Doug
I don't know what thickness the strips will be but I will bead/cove them. The boat is a fishermen's launch 21'4" glassed inside and out. I should have the plans next month or so to see the thickness. I was told by the gentleman who built one that the strips were 5/8-3/4 thick.
Ive been using Gorrilla glue since it came out and love it but it's not a gap filling glue so to speak. It does gap fill but looses most of it's strenght. Fine Woodworking did a testing of it and found you would be better with titebond then with Gorrilla glue or Erothane glues if there is a gap. Epoxy did the best in the gap test.
Mike.
james caldwell <jcaldwell29@...> wrote:
Titebond II can be used up to 3/8" (coverd with glass set in epoxy)
Thicker than that and you should use gap filling stuff like thickened
Epoxy or Gorilla Original.
Larger stippers use a lower thickness/width ratio mostly square from
3/4" x 3/4" and up - but I know Joe Norton in Green Lake, WI did a
great job on a 30+ footer that used 1.25' thick (up to) 2.5" wide.
p.s. if you want a completely fair hull, the mold must be absolutely
perfect with close spaced mold frames if you use bead and cove,
Otherwise, do not use bead and cove, naturally fair each strip and
bevel the edges for fit. Use a surform to fair out carefully.
Ive been using Gorrilla glue since it came out and love it but it's not a gap filling glue so to speak. It does gap fill but looses most of it's strenght. Fine Woodworking did a testing of it and found you would be better with titebond then with Gorrilla glue or Erothane glues if there is a gap. Epoxy did the best in the gap test.
Mike.
james caldwell <jcaldwell29@...> wrote:
Titebond II can be used up to 3/8" (coverd with glass set in epoxy)
Thicker than that and you should use gap filling stuff like thickened
Epoxy or Gorilla Original.
Larger stippers use a lower thickness/width ratio mostly square from
3/4" x 3/4" and up - but I know Joe Norton in Green Lake, WI did a
great job on a 30+ footer that used 1.25' thick (up to) 2.5" wide.
p.s. if you want a completely fair hull, the mold must be absolutely
perfect with close spaced mold frames if you use bead and cove,
Otherwise, do not use bead and cove, naturally fair each strip and
bevel the edges for fit. Use a surform to fair out carefully.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, air ghun <airghun@...> wrote:
>
> is there any difference other then thicker strips in a bigger
boat? I use TitebondII for bonding the strips with the smaller boats
is it the same with a 21ft'er? or is epoxy used for the bigger boats?
>
> Thanks
> Mike
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Titebond II can be used up to 3/8" (coverd with glass set in epoxy)
Thicker than that and you should use gap filling stuff like thickened
Epoxy or Gorilla Original.
Larger stippers use a lower thickness/width ratio mostly square from
3/4" x 3/4" and up - but I know Joe Norton in Green Lake, WI did a
great job on a 30+ footer that used 1.25' thick (up to) 2.5" wide.
p.s. if you want a completely fair hull, the mold must be absolutely
perfect with close spaced mold frames if you use bead and cove,
Otherwise, do not use bead and cove, naturally fair each strip and
bevel the edges for fit. Use a surform to fair out carefully.
Thicker than that and you should use gap filling stuff like thickened
Epoxy or Gorilla Original.
Larger stippers use a lower thickness/width ratio mostly square from
3/4" x 3/4" and up - but I know Joe Norton in Green Lake, WI did a
great job on a 30+ footer that used 1.25' thick (up to) 2.5" wide.
p.s. if you want a completely fair hull, the mold must be absolutely
perfect with close spaced mold frames if you use bead and cove,
Otherwise, do not use bead and cove, naturally fair each strip and
bevel the edges for fit. Use a surform to fair out carefully.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, air ghun <airghun@...> wrote:
>
> is there any difference other then thicker strips in a bigger
boat? I use TitebondII for bonding the strips with the smaller boats
is it the same with a 21ft'er? or is epoxy used for the bigger boats?
>
> Thanks
> Mike
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
In a message dated 8/20/2008 10:13:46 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
airghun@...writes:
is there any difference other then thicker strips in a bigger boat? I use
TitebondII for bonding the strips with the smaller boats is it the same with a
21ft'er? or is epoxy used for the bigger boats?
Thanks
Mike
I agree with the earlier comments about glass and epoxy, but those are ways
to do the job. Another question is whether the job should be done with strips.
In larger boats, there is a frame inside the strips that remains in place
(just like the frame in carvel or ribs in lapstrake building). This adds to
the complexity of any repairs that need to be made to the hull for strippers.
Since the strips are edge-nailed (probably with ring nails) removing and
replacing a damaged or rotted area becomes significantly more difficult than
pulling and replacing a carvel or lapstrake plank.
All that being said, the other consideration is whether the hull design
lends itself to a particular style of planking. Strip planking is more doable on
some hull shapes, as is cold-molding. Trying to force carvel or lapstrake
planking onto certain hulls is an exercise in frustration.
Hope this doesn't obfuscate the issue too much <G>
Andy
**************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel
deal here.
(http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
airghun@...writes:
is there any difference other then thicker strips in a bigger boat? I use
TitebondII for bonding the strips with the smaller boats is it the same with a
21ft'er? or is epoxy used for the bigger boats?
Thanks
Mike
I agree with the earlier comments about glass and epoxy, but those are ways
to do the job. Another question is whether the job should be done with strips.
In larger boats, there is a frame inside the strips that remains in place
(just like the frame in carvel or ribs in lapstrake building). This adds to
the complexity of any repairs that need to be made to the hull for strippers.
Since the strips are edge-nailed (probably with ring nails) removing and
replacing a damaged or rotted area becomes significantly more difficult than
pulling and replacing a carvel or lapstrake plank.
All that being said, the other consideration is whether the hull design
lends itself to a particular style of planking. Strip planking is more doable on
some hull shapes, as is cold-molding. Trying to force carvel or lapstrake
planking onto certain hulls is an exercise in frustration.
Hope this doesn't obfuscate the issue too much <G>
Andy
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
There are to much unknowen about the boat type and size as well as
strip size for the aplication to truly answer. A 21' canoe has
different requierments then a 21' inboard cabin cruser. Are strips bead
and coved ect. One thing I can tell you for shure is Tightbond II is
not WATERPROoF Tightbond III is. If water gets into TBII in time it
will break down.
Jon
strip size for the aplication to truly answer. A 21' canoe has
different requierments then a 21' inboard cabin cruser. Are strips bead
and coved ect. One thing I can tell you for shure is Tightbond II is
not WATERPROoF Tightbond III is. If water gets into TBII in time it
will break down.
Jon
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, air ghun <airghun@> wrote:
> >
> > is there any difference other then thicker strips in a bigger
> boat? I use TitebondII for bonding the strips with the smaller
> boats is it the same with a 21ft'er? or is epoxy used for the bigger
> boats?
>
My understanding is that for canoes the strips are quite a bit wider
than they are thick. Because it's impossible to edge-nail these
strips to each other (they're too thin) they're glued together
instead. There's often a layer of fibreglass inside and out over the
strips.
With larger hulls the strips are usually nearly square in section
i.e. about as thick as they are wide, and they're usually nailed
together, edge-to edge. The nails are often long enough to go
through, say, two-and-a-half strips. The joint can be dry, or filled
with glue or even with bedding compound. Sometimes the hull is
glassed over the strips or there is a layer of veneer cold-moulded
and glued over the outside.
Strip-built hulls are very strong, but it's said there's a risk that
if the strip-planking take up moisture it will expand away from the
frames and bulkeads. There are no "expansion joints" as there are
with ordinary planked hulls.
You should be able to use the technique you already know from
buiding canoes to build a larger hull as long as the scantlings are
adequate. The planking might be three or more times as thick as
you'd use with a canoe.
By the way, none of the above is based on any first-hand experience
or strip-planking, but I've read books and articles on the topic
over the years. One of those books is "Cold Moulded and Strip
Planked Wood Boatbuilding" by Ian Nicholson.
Howard
than they are thick. Because it's impossible to edge-nail these
strips to each other (they're too thin) they're glued together
instead. There's often a layer of fibreglass inside and out over the
strips.
With larger hulls the strips are usually nearly square in section
i.e. about as thick as they are wide, and they're usually nailed
together, edge-to edge. The nails are often long enough to go
through, say, two-and-a-half strips. The joint can be dry, or filled
with glue or even with bedding compound. Sometimes the hull is
glassed over the strips or there is a layer of veneer cold-moulded
and glued over the outside.
Strip-built hulls are very strong, but it's said there's a risk that
if the strip-planking take up moisture it will expand away from the
frames and bulkeads. There are no "expansion joints" as there are
with ordinary planked hulls.
You should be able to use the technique you already know from
buiding canoes to build a larger hull as long as the scantlings are
adequate. The planking might be three or more times as thick as
you'd use with a canoe.
By the way, none of the above is based on any first-hand experience
or strip-planking, but I've read books and articles on the topic
over the years. One of those books is "Cold Moulded and Strip
Planked Wood Boatbuilding" by Ian Nicholson.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, air ghun <airghun@...> wrote:
>
> is there any difference other then thicker strips in a bigger
boat? I use TitebondII for bonding the strips with the smaller
boats is it the same with a 21ft'er? or is epoxy used for the bigger
boats?
is there any difference other then thicker strips in a bigger boat? I use TitebondII for bonding the strips with the smaller boats is it the same with a 21ft'er? or is epoxy used for the bigger boats?
Thanks
Mike
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Thanks
Mike
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]