Re: [bolger] Re: Polyester fabric and checking
I did an experiment a while back with light glass (2 oz?) and acrylic
latex (or epoxy fortified) porch paint. The goal was to stop checking
on a hatch cover.
You paint the cloth down, basically, like people used to do with
canvas. Fast undercoat, drop the cloth down, top coat. It works well.
However, not recommended for any part that will be underwater
constantly. If checking painting ply is the issue, porch or garage
floor paint and glass works well without boosting the weight.
latex (or epoxy fortified) porch paint. The goal was to stop checking
on a hatch cover.
You paint the cloth down, basically, like people used to do with
canvas. Fast undercoat, drop the cloth down, top coat. It works well.
However, not recommended for any part that will be underwater
constantly. If checking painting ply is the issue, porch or garage
floor paint and glass works well without boosting the weight.
On Sep 8, 2008, at 12:08 AM, Harry James wrote:
>
>
> and compression. It is about abrasion resistance. Jon thinks it is the
> extra epoxy and would rather use cabosil for extra abrasion
> resistance.
>
>
Another recommendation has been to use corborundum (powder) in epoxy.
Carborundum will abrade the rocks. I think I read of this in an
article on west coast drift boats ...
=== craig o'donnell
dadadata@...
Box 232 Betterton Md 21610
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ron
We built 3 Gull dories in my shop in 2003 before my last mobilization. I
put Xynole on the bottom of all of them. The rest are all different as I
am not very good at doing the same thing twice running. The Xnole was
all done the same and Ken pretty well has the right of it on what I
think is the best technique. I put the cloth on dry and poured on the
epoxy and used a plastic spreader to level it off and it soaked in a
lot. I then spread on another coat the next day. I sanded that one down
rolled on a finish coat. I would not try to use filler until after the
cloth is filled with epoxy. My estimate is it took about 3 times the
epoxy of 6 oz cloth and as I have said before I have never gone through
it on our beaches. I have gone through 6 oz cloth rather easily. This is
not about strength, fiberglass is stronger than Xynole in both tension
and compression. It is about abrasion resistance. Jon thinks it is the
extra epoxy and would rather use cabosil for extra abrasion resistance.
I have a different opinion based on my experience which is just fine,
you get to make your mind up and then have "your" opinion. If you want
strength and abrasion resistance the Arimid Kevlar is very abrasion
resistant and way stronger in tension then fiberglass. It doesn't do
compression well but nobodies perfect. I can email you some pics of
putting on the Xynole if you want them. Someday I have to put it
together for a Duckworks article.
Still looking for that plastic over epoxy site.
HJ
Ron Magen wrote:
We built 3 Gull dories in my shop in 2003 before my last mobilization. I
put Xynole on the bottom of all of them. The rest are all different as I
am not very good at doing the same thing twice running. The Xnole was
all done the same and Ken pretty well has the right of it on what I
think is the best technique. I put the cloth on dry and poured on the
epoxy and used a plastic spreader to level it off and it soaked in a
lot. I then spread on another coat the next day. I sanded that one down
rolled on a finish coat. I would not try to use filler until after the
cloth is filled with epoxy. My estimate is it took about 3 times the
epoxy of 6 oz cloth and as I have said before I have never gone through
it on our beaches. I have gone through 6 oz cloth rather easily. This is
not about strength, fiberglass is stronger than Xynole in both tension
and compression. It is about abrasion resistance. Jon thinks it is the
extra epoxy and would rather use cabosil for extra abrasion resistance.
I have a different opinion based on my experience which is just fine,
you get to make your mind up and then have "your" opinion. If you want
strength and abrasion resistance the Arimid Kevlar is very abrasion
resistant and way stronger in tension then fiberglass. It doesn't do
compression well but nobodies perfect. I can email you some pics of
putting on the Xynole if you want them. Someday I have to put it
together for a Duckworks article.
Still looking for that plastic over epoxy site.
HJ
Ron Magen wrote:
> Harry, et al . . .
>
> I have a 'South Haven' Dory {'clone' of Gloucester Gull} that I am -that is
> 'will be', after Joanne's kitchen- refurbishing. The bottom is badly
> 'checked', along with a almost broken off transom top. It is completely
> painted, so the first thing is to thoroughly sand to 'clean' wood.
>
> I've worked with glass, and the one thing that is the most troublesome is
> the 'itch' factor. I've heard a lot about the virtues of Dynel/Xynole - 'no
> itch' and conforms to curves/edges nicely. What I intend to do -to offset
> the epoxy 'suck-up' factor- is treat it like a fairing problem. . .
> a} sand, brush, and vacuum clean
> b} brush & roll a light coat of 'straight' THINNED epoxy
> c} mix up a batch of 'Q-Cel' {or Phonolic, or other light
> weight} filler, and apply a 'skim coat' with a NOTCHED
> spreader.
> d} lay in and 'rollout' the Dynel/Xynole cloth.
> e} wait for 'Green Stage' or beyond
> f} mix up & apply a SMOOTH skim 'top coat' of a harder
> {fumed silica admixture} filler.
> g} lightly sand & PAINT
>
> The sides will have just a layer of about a 1 ounce fabric, set in epoxy,
> 'skimmed' & painted.
>
> This shouldn't add much weight -any would add to the 'ballast', anyway. Will
> most assuredly increase bottom abrasion resistance, and make outside storage
> {covered, of course} much less worrisome.
>
> Regards,
> Ron Magen
> Backyard Boatshop
>
>
>
>> Posted by: "Harry James"welshman@...harryjak
>> snip
>>
> . . . one layer of Xynole was four times as abrasion resistant as one layer
> of 6 oz glass. When the test was adjusted for thickness of coating the
> Xynole was 2 times as abrasion resistant. As a practical matter, Xnole or
> Dynel is much easier to work around corners of chines and such. . . .
>
>> . . .
>> There is a web site out there that shows using 20 mil plastic and rolling
>> it out over glass/epoxy and leaving a mirror smooth finish. I have often
>> wondered how that technique would work over Xynole maybe make filling the
>> weave quicker. . .
>>
>
>
>
6 oz. Dynel can take upto 4-6 times the epoxy to wet out and then
finnesh so it would be a apples to oranges compaired to 6 oz. glass.
Dynel is no where as strong as glass even with all the epoxy. My
favorite way to add abrasion resistance is use cabosil in the fill
and other coats after laying glass.
Jon
finnesh so it would be a apples to oranges compaired to 6 oz. glass.
Dynel is no where as strong as glass even with all the epoxy. My
favorite way to add abrasion resistance is use cabosil in the fill
and other coats after laying glass.
Jon
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
>
> Don't think so, the informal test in Boatbuilding magazine that
most of
> us use as a reference on this had epoxy without cloth as a control
and
> it had negligible resistance compared to the various cloths. Think
about
> it, how long does it take you to sand through three coats of epoxy
as
> opposed to 6 oz cloth and epoxy.
>
> HJ
>
>
> Jon & Wanda(Tink) wrote:
> > I think like Dynel it is the high amount of epoxy needed to use
it that
> > gives it the abrasion resistance not the fact it is polyester
cloth.
> >
> > Jon
> >
> > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry James <welshman@> wrote:
> >
> >> I don't know about repairing but I live in an area of no beaches
as
> >>
> > they
> >
> >> are understood elsewhere. Rocks with barnacles and occasionally
> >>
> > pebble
> >
> >> beaches all with barnacles attached. Any boat that I plan on
keeping
> >>
> > I
> >
> >> have used Xynole on. Takes a lot of epoxy but it also takes a
> >>
> > beating. I
> >
> >> have gone through 6 ox glass many times but never through the
Xynole.
> >>
> >> HJ Juneau.
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
You are absolutly right about the holes and varnish will do the same
thing I watched guys varnishing boats in Florida and they added so much
japan dries they were able to get three coats in one day. That stuff
had to be like a sieve. I guess the fact that the holes seldom line up
saves them?
Doug
Kenneth Grome wrote:
thing I watched guys varnishing boats in Florida and they added so much
japan dries they were able to get three coats in one day. That stuff
had to be like a sieve. I guess the fact that the holes seldom line up
saves them?
Doug
Kenneth Grome wrote:
>
> Ron,
>
> I think you should allow the fabric to suck up as much epoxy
> as it wants to suck up. When you apply a sheathing layer
> this layer is supposed to be filled 100% with epoxy. It's
> not supposed to have air in it, but that's what your
> approach will do.
>
> The only reasonably effective way I can think of (at the
> moment) to use less epoxy with Xynole might be to vacuum
> bag it since this will put pressure on the cloth over its
> entire surface and *theoretically* flatten it uniformly --
> thereby reducing the volume of air spaces that would
> otherwise be filled with epoxy.
>
> By the way, you should never thin epoxy with any kind of
> solvents either. The only way you should thin epoxy is by
> heating it.
>
> Epoxy does not need to be thinned to work properly in the
> first place. This is a false assumption that too many
> people fall into these days, probably because they assume
> epoxy works like paint -- which it most certainly does not.
> Paint usually sticks better when the first coat is thinned,
> but this is not true of epoxy.
>
> By thinning epoxy with solvents all you're doing is
> perforating it with millions of tiny hollow tubes created
> by the solvents as they flow from within the epoxy to the
> surface so they can evaporate. These hollow tubes provide
> ideal pathways for moisture to get into the wood later.
>
> Sincerely,
> Ken Grome
> Bagacay Boatworks
> www.bagacayboatworks.com
>
> > What I intend to do -to offset the epoxy 'suck-up' factor
> > is treat it like a fairing problem. . .
> > a} sand, brush, and vacuum clean
> > b} brush & roll a light coat of 'straight' THINNED epoxy
> > c} mix up a batch of 'Q-Cel' {or Phonolic, or other light
> > weight} filler, and apply a 'skim coat' with a NOTCHED
> > spreader.
> > d} lay in and 'rollout' the Dynel/Xynole cloth.
> > e} wait for 'Green Stage' or beyond
> > f} mix up & apply a SMOOTH skim 'top coat' of a harder
> {fumed silica admixture} filler.
> > g} lightly sand & PAINT
>
>
Ron,
I think you should allow the fabric to suck up as much epoxy
as it wants to suck up. When you apply a sheathing layer
this layer is supposed to be filled 100% with epoxy. It's
not supposed to have air in it, but that's what your
approach will do.
The only reasonably effective way I can think of (at the
moment) to use less epoxy with Xynole might be to vacuum
bag it since this will put pressure on the cloth over its
entire surface and *theoretically* flatten it uniformly --
thereby reducing the volume of air spaces that would
otherwise be filled with epoxy.
By the way, you should never thin epoxy with any kind of
solvents either. The only way you should thin epoxy is by
heating it.
Epoxy does not need to be thinned to work properly in the
first place. This is a false assumption that too many
people fall into these days, probably because they assume
epoxy works like paint -- which it most certainly does not.
Paint usually sticks better when the first coat is thinned,
but this is not true of epoxy.
By thinning epoxy with solvents all you're doing is
perforating it with millions of tiny hollow tubes created
by the solvents as they flow from within the epoxy to the
surface so they can evaporate. These hollow tubes provide
ideal pathways for moisture to get into the wood later.
Sincerely,
Ken Grome
Bagacay Boatworks
www.bagacayboatworks.com
I think you should allow the fabric to suck up as much epoxy
as it wants to suck up. When you apply a sheathing layer
this layer is supposed to be filled 100% with epoxy. It's
not supposed to have air in it, but that's what your
approach will do.
The only reasonably effective way I can think of (at the
moment) to use less epoxy with Xynole might be to vacuum
bag it since this will put pressure on the cloth over its
entire surface and *theoretically* flatten it uniformly --
thereby reducing the volume of air spaces that would
otherwise be filled with epoxy.
By the way, you should never thin epoxy with any kind of
solvents either. The only way you should thin epoxy is by
heating it.
Epoxy does not need to be thinned to work properly in the
first place. This is a false assumption that too many
people fall into these days, probably because they assume
epoxy works like paint -- which it most certainly does not.
Paint usually sticks better when the first coat is thinned,
but this is not true of epoxy.
By thinning epoxy with solvents all you're doing is
perforating it with millions of tiny hollow tubes created
by the solvents as they flow from within the epoxy to the
surface so they can evaporate. These hollow tubes provide
ideal pathways for moisture to get into the wood later.
Sincerely,
Ken Grome
Bagacay Boatworks
www.bagacayboatworks.com
> What I intend to do -to offset the epoxy 'suck-up' factor{fumed silica admixture} filler.
> is treat it like a fairing problem. . .
> a} sand, brush, and vacuum clean
> b} brush & roll a light coat of 'straight' THINNED epoxy
> c} mix up a batch of 'Q-Cel' {or Phonolic, or other light
> weight} filler, and apply a 'skim coat' with a NOTCHED
> spreader.
> d} lay in and 'rollout' the Dynel/Xynole cloth.
> e} wait for 'Green Stage' or beyond
> f} mix up & apply a SMOOTH skim 'top coat' of a harder
> g} lightly sand & PAINT
Harry, et al . . .
I have a 'South Haven' Dory {'clone' of Gloucester Gull} that I am -that is
'will be', after Joanne's kitchen- refurbishing. The bottom is badly
'checked', along with a almost broken off transom top. It is completely
painted, so the first thing is to thoroughly sand to 'clean' wood.
I've worked with glass, and the one thing that is the most troublesome is
the 'itch' factor. I've heard a lot about the virtues of Dynel/Xynole - 'no
itch' and conforms to curves/edges nicely. What I intend to do -to offset
the epoxy 'suck-up' factor- is treat it like a fairing problem. . .
a} sand, brush, and vacuum clean
b} brush & roll a light coat of 'straight' THINNED epoxy
c} mix up a batch of 'Q-Cel' {or Phonolic, or other light
weight} filler, and apply a 'skim coat' with a NOTCHED
spreader.
d} lay in and 'rollout' the Dynel/Xynole cloth.
e} wait for 'Green Stage' or beyond
f} mix up & apply a SMOOTH skim 'top coat' of a harder
{fumed silica admixture} filler.
g} lightly sand & PAINT
The sides will have just a layer of about a 1 ounce fabric, set in epoxy,
'skimmed' & painted.
This shouldn't add much weight -any would add to the 'ballast', anyway. Will
most assuredly increase bottom abrasion resistance, and make outside storage
{covered, of course} much less worrisome.
Regards,
Ron Magen
Backyard Boatshop
of 6 oz glass. When the test was adjusted for thickness of coating the
Xynole was 2 times as abrasion resistant. As a practical matter, Xnole or
Dynel is much easier to work around corners of chines and such. . . .
I have a 'South Haven' Dory {'clone' of Gloucester Gull} that I am -that is
'will be', after Joanne's kitchen- refurbishing. The bottom is badly
'checked', along with a almost broken off transom top. It is completely
painted, so the first thing is to thoroughly sand to 'clean' wood.
I've worked with glass, and the one thing that is the most troublesome is
the 'itch' factor. I've heard a lot about the virtues of Dynel/Xynole - 'no
itch' and conforms to curves/edges nicely. What I intend to do -to offset
the epoxy 'suck-up' factor- is treat it like a fairing problem. . .
a} sand, brush, and vacuum clean
b} brush & roll a light coat of 'straight' THINNED epoxy
c} mix up a batch of 'Q-Cel' {or Phonolic, or other light
weight} filler, and apply a 'skim coat' with a NOTCHED
spreader.
d} lay in and 'rollout' the Dynel/Xynole cloth.
e} wait for 'Green Stage' or beyond
f} mix up & apply a SMOOTH skim 'top coat' of a harder
{fumed silica admixture} filler.
g} lightly sand & PAINT
The sides will have just a layer of about a 1 ounce fabric, set in epoxy,
'skimmed' & painted.
This shouldn't add much weight -any would add to the 'ballast', anyway. Will
most assuredly increase bottom abrasion resistance, and make outside storage
{covered, of course} much less worrisome.
Regards,
Ron Magen
Backyard Boatshop
> Posted by: "Harry James"welshman@...harryjak. . . one layer of Xynole was four times as abrasion resistant as one layer
> snip
of 6 oz glass. When the test was adjusted for thickness of coating the
Xynole was 2 times as abrasion resistant. As a practical matter, Xnole or
Dynel is much easier to work around corners of chines and such. . . .
> . . .
> There is a web site out there that shows using 20 mil plastic and rolling
> it out over glass/epoxy and leaving a mirror smooth finish. I have often
> wondered how that technique would work over Xynole maybe make filling the
> weave quicker. . .
In the Boatbuilding test and I think you have quoted it Ken one layer of
Xynole was four times as abrasion resistant as one layer of 6 oz glass.
When the test was adjusted for thickness of coating the Xynole was 2
times as abrasion resistant. As a practical matter, Xnole or Dynel is
much easier to work around corners of chines and such. If I bother with
glass at all I will always put Xynole or Dynel on the bottom. Glass on
the sides is just to stabilize the wood surface, glass on the bottom is
for abrasion resistance, why not do 4x effectiveness?
There is a web site out there that shows using 20 mil plastic and
rolling it out over glass/epoxy and leaving a mirror smooth finish. I
have often wondered how that technique would work over Xynole maybe
make filling the weave quicker. If anybody has that website link I
could use it, disappeared out of my files.
HJ
Kenneth Grome wrote:
Xynole was four times as abrasion resistant as one layer of 6 oz glass.
When the test was adjusted for thickness of coating the Xynole was 2
times as abrasion resistant. As a practical matter, Xnole or Dynel is
much easier to work around corners of chines and such. If I bother with
glass at all I will always put Xynole or Dynel on the bottom. Glass on
the sides is just to stabilize the wood surface, glass on the bottom is
for abrasion resistance, why not do 4x effectiveness?
There is a web site out there that shows using 20 mil plastic and
rolling it out over glass/epoxy and leaving a mirror smooth finish. I
have often wondered how that technique would work over Xynole maybe
make filling the weave quicker. If anybody has that website link I
could use it, disappeared out of my files.
HJ
Kenneth Grome wrote:
>> I think like Dynel it is the high amount of epoxy needed[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> to use it that gives it the abrasion resistance not the
>> fact it is polyester cloth.
>>
>
> In this case several layers of glass would be better than
> one layer of Xynole, but I don't think this is the case.
>
> I think the polyester lets the boat slip off obstructions
> better than glass. Graphite in epoxy is good for abrasion
> resistance too -- because it lets the hull slip off of
> things that would otherwise dig into it. I think polyester
> works the same way.
>
> I also think since it is a plastic fiber rather than glass,
> polyester fibers are not broken as easily as glass.
> Instead of breaking they bend and stretch which appears to
> resist abrasion better than glass fibers.
>
> Sincerely,
> Ken Grome
> Bagacay Boatworks
> www.bagacayboatworks.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> Jon
>>
>> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry James <welshman@...>
>>
> wrote:
>
>>> I don't know about repairing but I live in an area of
>>> no beaches as
>>>
>> they
>>
>>
>>> are understood elsewhere. Rocks with barnacles and
>>> occasionally
>>>
>> pebble
>>
>>
>>> beaches all with barnacles attached. Any boat that I
>>> plan on keeping
>>>
>> I
>>
>>
>>> have used Xynole on. Takes a lot of epoxy but it also
>>> takes a
>>>
>> beating. I
>>
>>
>>> have gone through 6 ox glass many times but never
>>> through the Xynole.
>>>
>>> HJ Juneau.
>>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
> I think like Dynel it is the high amount of epoxy neededIn this case several layers of glass would be better than
> to use it that gives it the abrasion resistance not the
> fact it is polyester cloth.
one layer of Xynole, but I don't think this is the case.
I think the polyester lets the boat slip off obstructions
better than glass. Graphite in epoxy is good for abrasion
resistance too -- because it lets the hull slip off of
things that would otherwise dig into it. I think polyester
works the same way.
I also think since it is a plastic fiber rather than glass,
polyester fibers are not broken as easily as glass.
Instead of breaking they bend and stretch which appears to
resist abrasion better than glass fibers.
Sincerely,
Ken Grome
Bagacay Boatworks
www.bagacayboatworks.com
>wrote:
> Jon
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry James <welshman@...>
> > I don't know about repairing but I live in an area of
> > no beaches as
>
> they
>
> > are understood elsewhere. Rocks with barnacles and
> > occasionally
>
> pebble
>
> > beaches all with barnacles attached. Any boat that I
> > plan on keeping
>
> I
>
> > have used Xynole on. Takes a lot of epoxy but it also
> > takes a
>
> beating. I
>
> > have gone through 6 ox glass many times but never
> > through the Xynole.
> >
> > HJ Juneau.
Don't think so, the informal test in Boatbuilding magazine that most of
us use as a reference on this had epoxy without cloth as a control and
it had negligible resistance compared to the various cloths. Think about
it, how long does it take you to sand through three coats of epoxy as
opposed to 6 oz cloth and epoxy.
HJ
Jon & Wanda(Tink) wrote:
us use as a reference on this had epoxy without cloth as a control and
it had negligible resistance compared to the various cloths. Think about
it, how long does it take you to sand through three coats of epoxy as
opposed to 6 oz cloth and epoxy.
HJ
Jon & Wanda(Tink) wrote:
> I think like Dynel it is the high amount of epoxy needed to use it that
> gives it the abrasion resistance not the fact it is polyester cloth.
>
> Jon
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
>
>> I don't know about repairing but I live in an area of no beaches as
>>
> they
>
>> are understood elsewhere. Rocks with barnacles and occasionally
>>
> pebble
>
>> beaches all with barnacles attached. Any boat that I plan on keeping
>>
> I
>
>> have used Xynole on. Takes a lot of epoxy but it also takes a
>>
> beating. I
>
>> have gone through 6 ox glass many times but never through the Xynole.
>>
>> HJ Juneau.
>>
>
>
>
I think like Dynel it is the high amount of epoxy needed to use it that
gives it the abrasion resistance not the fact it is polyester cloth.
Jon
gives it the abrasion resistance not the fact it is polyester cloth.
Jon
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
>
> I don't know about repairing but I live in an area of no beaches as
they
> are understood elsewhere. Rocks with barnacles and occasionally
pebble
> beaches all with barnacles attached. Any boat that I plan on keeping
I
> have used Xynole on. Takes a lot of epoxy but it also takes a
beating. I
> have gone through 6 ox glass many times but never through the Xynole.
>
> HJ Juneau.
I don't know about repairing but I live in an area of no beaches as they
are understood elsewhere. Rocks with barnacles and occasionally pebble
beaches all with barnacles attached. Any boat that I plan on keeping I
have used Xynole on. Takes a lot of epoxy but it also takes a beating. I
have gone through 6 ox glass many times but never through the Xynole.
HJ Juneau.
Ben wrote:
are understood elsewhere. Rocks with barnacles and occasionally pebble
beaches all with barnacles attached. Any boat that I plan on keeping I
have used Xynole on. Takes a lot of epoxy but it also takes a beating. I
have gone through 6 ox glass many times but never through the Xynole.
HJ Juneau.
Ben wrote:
> When you sand thru the epoxy and hit the Xynole,it turns fuzzy like a
> lint ball.It's a pain to repair it too.
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Kenneth Grome <bagacayboatworks@...> wrote:
>
>> Xynole is polyester and it has been reported to be 4 times
>> better than fiberglass in terms of abrasion resistance.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> Ken Grome
>> Bagacay Boatworks
>> www.bagacayboatworks.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> It seems to me that the polyester cloth won't add
>>> significant strength like glass fiber would, not would it
>>> be expected to take abrasion like glass ...
>>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
When you sand thru the epoxy and hit the Xynole,it turns fuzzy like a
lint ball.It's a pain to repair it too.
lint ball.It's a pain to repair it too.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Kenneth Grome <bagacayboatworks@...> wrote:
>
> Xynole is polyester and it has been reported to be 4 times
> better than fiberglass in terms of abrasion resistance.
>
> Sincerely,
> Ken Grome
> Bagacay Boatworks
> www.bagacayboatworks.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > It seems to me that the polyester cloth won't add
> > significant strength like glass fiber would, not would it
> > be expected to take abrasion like glass ...
>
Xynole is polyester and it has been reported to be 4 times
better than fiberglass in terms of abrasion resistance.
Sincerely,
Ken Grome
Bagacay Boatworks
www.bagacayboatworks.com
better than fiberglass in terms of abrasion resistance.
Sincerely,
Ken Grome
Bagacay Boatworks
www.bagacayboatworks.com
> It seems to me that the polyester cloth won't add
> significant strength like glass fiber would, not would it
> be expected to take abrasion like glass ...
It seems to me that the polyester cloth won't add significant strength
like glass fiber would, not would it be expected to take abrasion like
glass, but it will let you get the epoxy on really thick just by
supporting the wet paint as Krissie says above.
Will thicker paint prevent checking? Dunno.
Don
like glass fiber would, not would it be expected to take abrasion like
glass, but it will let you get the epoxy on really thick just by
supporting the wet paint as Krissie says above.
Will thicker paint prevent checking? Dunno.
Don
I have used Nexus Cloth and epoxy and they work will together, All Nexus cloth does is give you an even coat of epoxy that doesn't run off the part. :) Also works nice over cloth to give you something to sand other then the cloth.
I did a deck and we used fiberglass cloth with Nexus cloth over the top. After the epoxy had set we took a scraper to knock off the spikes from the Nexus cloth and painted it. It had just the right amount of tooth for non skid.
Krissie
I did a deck and we used fiberglass cloth with Nexus cloth over the top. After the epoxy had set we took a scraper to knock off the spikes from the Nexus cloth and painted it. It had just the right amount of tooth for non skid.
Krissie
--- On Tue, 9/2/08, Peter McCorison <k2spr@...> wrote:
From: Peter McCorison <k2spr@...>
Subject: Re: [bolger] Polyester fabric and checking
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, September 2, 2008, 12:20 PM
I've been using Nexus Cloth (a light non-woven polyester cloth) set in
epoxy to protect PW from checking. It has always worked for me. This
isn't a process for adding strength to the structure, but only to
protect the surface. The nice thing about Nexus Cloth is that it doesn't
add much weight to the layup. Also it doesn't fuzz up when sanding like
Dynel does.
Of course, YMMV.
- Peter McCorison
Mungo Jerry wrote:
> I was contemplating epoxying/gluing/ sticking with chewing gum a layer of polyester fabric
> over the hull bottom of my Vesper (imagine if Jessie Cooper had a drunken tumble with
> Superbrick and you'll get the design concept). the idea would be to decrease checking and
> increase the integrity of seams. Would love to hear if any of you have any experiences, good
> or ill, with doing this and if you've ever used anything but two part epoxy for the process.
>
>
> ------------ --------- --------- ------
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@ yahoogroups. com
> - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_ lounge-subscribe @yahoogroups. com Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jerry I think you need to know they use polyester fabric as peel ply with epoxy. You would be better off to just use fiberglass. And the cost is not going to be much more to do it right the first time around
I have used a glass fabric called 7781 it's a 8.7 oz cloth that has a satin finsh and has a very tight weave. The last I looked FIberglass Supply has it cheaper then 6 oz boat cloth. It come in 38,50 and 60 inches wide. The only draw back I've seen is it does not like taking a real tight bend.
They also carry the lighter industral cloths as well. The industral cloths are a finer and tighter weave so you will also have less time trying to fill the weave! The little extra you may pay for the industral cloth over the boat cloth will save you HOURS of sanding and filling!
Fiberglass Supply's web site is www.fiberglasssupply.com they do ship as well.
I have found their prices to be rather good on most of their stuff. I find their price on their epoxys not bad.
Krissie
I was contemplating epoxying/gluing/ sticking with chewing gum a layer of polyester fabric
over the hull bottom of my Vesper (imagine if Jessie Cooper had a drunken tumble with
Superbrick and you'll get the design concept). the idea would be to decrease checking and
increase the integrity of seams. Would love to hear if any of you have any experiences, good
or ill, with doing this and if you've ever used anything but two part epoxy for the process.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I have used a glass fabric called 7781 it's a 8.7 oz cloth that has a satin finsh and has a very tight weave. The last I looked FIberglass Supply has it cheaper then 6 oz boat cloth. It come in 38,50 and 60 inches wide. The only draw back I've seen is it does not like taking a real tight bend.
They also carry the lighter industral cloths as well. The industral cloths are a finer and tighter weave so you will also have less time trying to fill the weave! The little extra you may pay for the industral cloth over the boat cloth will save you HOURS of sanding and filling!
Fiberglass Supply's web site is www.fiberglasssupply.com they do ship as well.
I have found their prices to be rather good on most of their stuff. I find their price on their epoxys not bad.
Krissie
I was contemplating epoxying/gluing/ sticking with chewing gum a layer of polyester fabric
over the hull bottom of my Vesper (imagine if Jessie Cooper had a drunken tumble with
Superbrick and you'll get the design concept). the idea would be to decrease checking and
increase the integrity of seams. Would love to hear if any of you have any experiences, good
or ill, with doing this and if you've ever used anything but two part epoxy for the process.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I had never heard of 'Nexus Cloth' before but here's
something I found online:
"Nexus is polyester cloth used as the outside covering
material in fiberglass pultrusions to give a smooth surface
to the part."
Xynole is polyester too, and lots of builders use xynole in
epoxy as a sheathing coat for abrasion resistance. My
guess is that if the polyester you intend to use is a
relatively open weave material, it will work fine.
It seems this fabric is also used in a variety of other
composite applications. Based on what I have read, I might
use it for surface integrity but I would not expect it to
impart enough additional strength to the joints to use it
for this purpose.
Sincerely,
Ken Grome
Bagacay Boatworks
www.bagacayboatworks.com
something I found online:
"Nexus is polyester cloth used as the outside covering
material in fiberglass pultrusions to give a smooth surface
to the part."
Xynole is polyester too, and lots of builders use xynole in
epoxy as a sheathing coat for abrasion resistance. My
guess is that if the polyester you intend to use is a
relatively open weave material, it will work fine.
It seems this fabric is also used in a variety of other
composite applications. Based on what I have read, I might
use it for surface integrity but I would not expect it to
impart enough additional strength to the joints to use it
for this purpose.
Sincerely,
Ken Grome
Bagacay Boatworks
www.bagacayboatworks.com
> I was contemplating epoxying/gluing/sticking with chewing
> gum a layer of polyester fabric over the hull bottom of
> my Vesper (imagine if Jessie Cooper had a drunken tumble
> with Superbrick and you'll get the design concept). the
> idea would be to decrease checking and increase the
> integrity of seams. Would love to hear if any of you
> have any experiences, good or ill, with doing this and if
> you've ever used anything but two part epoxy for the
> process.
Nothing sticks better prevents checking better and lasts as well as
EPOXY and glass period
Jon
EPOXY and glass period
Jon
I've been using Nexus Cloth (a light non-woven polyester cloth) set in
epoxy to protect PW from checking. It has always worked for me. This
isn't a process for adding strength to the structure, but only to
protect the surface. The nice thing about Nexus Cloth is that it doesn't
add much weight to the layup. Also it doesn't fuzz up when sanding like
Dynel does.
Of course, YMMV.
- Peter McCorison
Mungo Jerry wrote:
epoxy to protect PW from checking. It has always worked for me. This
isn't a process for adding strength to the structure, but only to
protect the surface. The nice thing about Nexus Cloth is that it doesn't
add much weight to the layup. Also it doesn't fuzz up when sanding like
Dynel does.
Of course, YMMV.
- Peter McCorison
Mungo Jerry wrote:
> I was contemplating epoxying/gluing/sticking with chewing gum a layer of polyester fabric
> over the hull bottom of my Vesper (imagine if Jessie Cooper had a drunken tumble with
> Superbrick and you'll get the design concept). the idea would be to decrease checking and
> increase the integrity of seams. Would love to hear if any of you have any experiences, good
> or ill, with doing this and if you've ever used anything but two part epoxy for the process.
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
I was contemplating epoxying/gluing/sticking with chewing gum a layer of polyester fabric
over the hull bottom of my Vesper (imagine if Jessie Cooper had a drunken tumble with
Superbrick and you'll get the design concept). the idea would be to decrease checking and
increase the integrity of seams. Would love to hear if any of you have any experiences, good
or ill, with doing this and if you've ever used anything but two part epoxy for the process.
over the hull bottom of my Vesper (imagine if Jessie Cooper had a drunken tumble with
Superbrick and you'll get the design concept). the idea would be to decrease checking and
increase the integrity of seams. Would love to hear if any of you have any experiences, good
or ill, with doing this and if you've ever used anything but two part epoxy for the process.