Re: [bolger] Re: Single Handed Schooner - sailing

Graeme,
Thanks for the tip. Whether or not this works will depend on how
much clearance there is between the deck and the lowest part of the
sheet mechanism below the boom. Which depends on how high the sails
are raised on the halyards. On that subject. By the end of the day,
after everything on the boat was thoroughly wet, I noticed I had
significantly less head clearance than in the morning. The halyards
had stretched during the day. I'll need to convert them over to non
stretch line. I'll do it after I run the foresail halyards back to
the cockpit. I'm not going to run the jib back because there is no
good way to gather the sail from aft after dropping it.

Sincerely,
Gene T.

On 27 Sep, 2008, at 2:08 AM, graeme19121984 wrote:

> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Gene Tehansky <goldranger02-boats@...>
> wrote:
>
> > I think a problem with pulling the main in hard is that you can't. >
> The horse traveler has the knots a limits and you can only pull the >
> sail in so far. I assume the reason is for the sheet to provide
> > some vanging effect which it would have less of if on the
> > centerline.
>
> If the rope horse can be slackened off, say a foot or three, the sheet
> block will centre. Tighten it for reaching.
>
> Graeme
>
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Gene Tehansky <goldranger02-boats@...>
wrote:

> I think a problem with pulling the main in hard is that you can't. >
The horse traveler has the knots a limits and you can only pull the >
sail in so far. I assume the reason is for the sheet to provide
> some vanging effect which it would have less of if on the
> centerline.


If the rope horse can be slackened off, say a foot or three, the sheet
block will centre. Tighten it for reaching.

Graeme
Mike,
The head and foot of the sail are loose. I have the tack and clue
(and the peak and throat) double tied, one to tension and one to hold
it to the spar. The luff uses one line woven back and forth in a
manner I would not have devised myself. The sail does not flap about
due to the head and foot not being lashed on so I'm going to leave it
like that. I still have not fixed my fore boom and gaff yokes.
Never let the sail wrap around the mast! 8^D

I think a problem with pulling the main in hard is that you can't.
The horse traveler has the knots a limits and you can only pull the
sail in so far. I assume the reason is for the sheet to provide some
vanging effect which it would have less of if on the centerline.
When I mounted my nav lights before dark, I backwinded the jib and
hauled in the main and I was satisfied that I was hove-to in that
condition. Possibly there is still to much windage with the fore and
jib luffing for the main to hold the boat into the wind.

Oh, and my main is a bit under size because thats all I could get out
of the polytarp without patching on pieces. After all the flogging
the sails did Friday night, I am amazed that the sails held up. I do
have a small boltrope around the perimeter of all sails which I now
understand is less efficient and can keep the sails from stretching
out nice and flat but mine are loose, that is fit in a sewn tube so I
have seen no puckering of the sail at spots. I felt good having the
line in the sail to hold them together.

Sincerely,
Gene T.

On 24 Sep, 2008, at 10:40 PM, efemiket wrote:

> Hi Gene - I skulled quite a bit actually, with some success. The
> rudder is really big for a boat of this size, to the extent I found it
> doesn't heave to as smartly as I would have liked with the main in
> hard and the fore and jib loose (rudder amidships).
>
> The tiller swings back and forth very easily with very little friction
> at all - it's a good design, not surprisingly.
>
> I should add that I had no serious problems with any part of the
> plans, even though they only amount to 3 large blueprints. The
> instructions are really clear and straightforward. This was my first
> boat and I am a really crappy carpenter (thank Neptune for epoxy!).
>
> Yes I also use the luff ties as described by Payson in Building the
> New Instant Boats. My luff ties are separate lengths of 1/8 inch line
> as per the Payson description, rather than one continuous length.
>
> I have loosely tied each grommet at the foot and head along the boom
> and yard. Are you saying you only have ties at the tack and clew?
>
> Agreed, definitely SHS is a keelboat.
>
> Mike
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Gene Tehansky <goldranger02-boats@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Mike,
> > Great report. The boat sounds nice. Getting through that dead spot,
> > have you tried skulling the rudder. Just working the tiller back and
> > forth I can do 1 knot with mine. No reason yours shouldn't. I'm
> > going to pull the tiller bolt and see if it is suffering any wear.
> > Doing a lot of skulling with it got me thinking that it might not
> > take the strain. I carry spares just in case one breaks. I have no
> > indication that it might, I'm just a pessimist. It results in a lot
> > of pleasant surprises when things work out well.
> >
> > Did you use individual ties on the luff. I use a single line that is
> > laced as Phil suggested somewhere, from sail, around mast to next
> > cringle, back around the same side of mast to next cringle and so
> > on. The sail seems to ride nice and snug and evenly on the mast.
> > Also, on the plans I could not detect ties on the bottom and top of
> > the sails so I left them off. It seems ok so I think I'll leave it
> > like that. At the time I wasn't into any more sewn cringles, my
> > fingers were sore.
> >
> > Good to hear your boat and mine have many of the same attributes. It
> > definitely is a keel boat, not a dingy.
> >
>
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Hi Gene - I skulled quite a bit actually, with some success. The
rudder is really big for a boat of this size, to the extent I found it
doesn't heave to as smartly as I would have liked with the main in
hard and the fore and jib loose (rudder amidships).

The tiller swings back and forth very easily with very little friction
at all - it's a good design, not surprisingly.

I should add that I had no serious problems with any part of the
plans, even though they only amount to 3 large blueprints. The
instructions are really clear and straightforward. This was my first
boat and I am a really crappy carpenter (thank Neptune for epoxy!).

Yes I also use the luff ties as described by Payson in Building the
New Instant Boats. My luff ties are separate lengths of 1/8 inch line
as per the Payson description, rather than one continuous length.

I have loosely tied each grommet at the foot and head along the boom
and yard. Are you saying you only have ties at the tack and clew?

Agreed, definitely SHS is a keelboat.

Mike

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Gene Tehansky <goldranger02-boats@...>
wrote:
>
> Mike,
> Great report. The boat sounds nice. Getting through that dead spot,
> have you tried skulling the rudder. Just working the tiller back and
> forth I can do 1 knot with mine. No reason yours shouldn't. I'm
> going to pull the tiller bolt and see if it is suffering any wear.
> Doing a lot of skulling with it got me thinking that it might not
> take the strain. I carry spares just in case one breaks. I have no
> indication that it might, I'm just a pessimist. It results in a lot
> of pleasant surprises when things work out well.
>
> Did you use individual ties on the luff. I use a single line that is
> laced as Phil suggested somewhere, from sail, around mast to next
> cringle, back around the same side of mast to next cringle and so
> on. The sail seems to ride nice and snug and evenly on the mast.
> Also, on the plans I could not detect ties on the bottom and top of
> the sails so I left them off. It seems ok so I think I'll leave it
> like that. At the time I wasn't into any more sewn cringles, my
> fingers were sore.
>
> Good to hear your boat and mine have many of the same attributes. It
> definitely is a keel boat, not a dingy.
>
Sue,
I have a pad eye on the deck on either side of the daggerboard. Once
the board is in I loop a piece of line between them over the board.
They are on the centerline where I have a 1x2 lateral reinforcement.
I just put a square knot in the line to secure it. The pad eye's
also serve to keep my winch pole from sliding away from the bottom of
the daggerboard as I lift it.

Do you spiral wrap the flag halyard around the sail and booms to
contain them. That sounds convenient. I have been using bungies
with the ball on the end, my daughter says they are like ponytail
constrictors (whatever). They seem to be a bit harsh on the sail so
I'll try your way. I then use my lazyjacks (I moved the topping lift
forward and doubled it) to haul the boom/gaff/sail set up along the
mast and then velcro it all together for lifting out. I have small
clam cleats on one end of my parrell line to allow slacking the
line. They are not attached to anything, just slide on the line and
allow locking it tight. I also put downhauls on the booms which must
be undone to lift the boom for stowage (or I break the boom jaw!).

Thanks for all the info. Enjoy your boat when you get it back in the
water. You certainly have provided a lot of inspiration with your
pictures over the past year or so.

Sincerely,
Gene Tehansky


On 23 Sep, 2008, at 10:45 PM, Susan Davis wrote:

> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Gene Tehansky <goldranger02-boats@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > This is probably directed to Sue but anybody jump in. On the photos
> > of Shrike (I think thats the name) you have a flag flying on the
> main
> > sail. How is that rigged. I love the look and want to do the same.
> > Is it on a halyard?
>
> I rigged a flag halyard (1/8") to a screweye at the gaff head. The
> cleat is on the side of the boom, near the tack. The flag halyard is
> also useful in helping to furl the sails. I rigged them on both sets
> of gaffs.
>
> Have you rigged a method for retaining the daggerboard yet? If so,
> how does it work?
>
> --
> Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
>
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Gene Tehansky <goldranger02-boats@...>
wrote:
>
> Did you use individual ties on the luff. I use a single line that
> is laced as Phil suggested somewhere, from sail, around mast to
> next cringle, back around the same side of mast to next cringle and
> so on. The sail seems to ride nice and snug and evenly on the mast.

I lace my luffs in this fashion, too.

> Also, on the plans I could not detect ties on the bottom and top of
> the sails so I left them off.

I use them, and I have a full set of head and foot cringles for them
on my Bohndell sails.

--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Gene Tehansky <goldranger02-boats@...>
wrote:
>
> This is probably directed to Sue but anybody jump in. On the photos
> of Shrike (I think thats the name) you have a flag flying on the main
> sail. How is that rigged. I love the look and want to do the same.
> Is it on a halyard?

I rigged a flag halyard (1/8") to a screweye at the gaff head. The
cleat is on the side of the boom, near the tack. The flag halyard is
also useful in helping to furl the sails. I rigged them on both sets
of gaffs.

Have you rigged a method for retaining the daggerboard yet? If so,
how does it work?

--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
This is probably directed to Sue but anybody jump in. On the photos
of Shrike (I think thats the name) you have a flag flying on the main
sail. How is that rigged. I love the look and want to do the same.
Is it on a halyard?

Sincerely,
Gene Tehansky
I have some pix of the boat, the build process etc at
http://chopandquench.typepad.com/photos/schoonerpix/index.html

The first pic is actually Sue's boat under way, but all the rest are
Piraat.

Mike

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
wrote:
>
> Sounds good Mike.
>
> Thanks for the interesting sailing report, did you get any pictures
> of the fun? Are your sails self-made or are they from a loft?
>
> Graeme
Mike,
Great report. The boat sounds nice. Getting through that dead spot,
have you tried skulling the rudder. Just working the tiller back and
forth I can do 1 knot with mine. No reason yours shouldn't. I'm
going to pull the tiller bolt and see if it is suffering any wear.
Doing a lot of skulling with it got me thinking that it might not
take the strain. I carry spares just in case one breaks. I have no
indication that it might, I'm just a pessimist. It results in a lot
of pleasant surprises when things work out well.

Did you use individual ties on the luff. I use a single line that is
laced as Phil suggested somewhere, from sail, around mast to next
cringle, back around the same side of mast to next cringle and so
on. The sail seems to ride nice and snug and evenly on the mast.
Also, on the plans I could not detect ties on the bottom and top of
the sails so I left them off. It seems ok so I think I'll leave it
like that. At the time I wasn't into any more sewn cringles, my
fingers were sore.

Good to hear your boat and mine have many of the same attributes. It
definitely is a keel boat, not a dingy.

Sincerely,
Gene T.

On 22 Sep, 2008, at 10:46 PM, efemiket wrote:

> I had my maiden voyage on my SHS (named 'Piraat') on Saturday. I had
> the temerity to enter myself and my crew in the annual Past the Island
> Race (used to be the Around the Island Race, but now the Toronto Port
> Authority, in their infinite wisdom, has forbidden sailing through the
> Western Gap, effectively putting the kybosh on sailing around the
> Toronto Islands).
>
> First off we had a little bit of difficulty making it to the start
> line. I was a bit slow getting rigged, then the light southerly breeze
> made it almost impossible to sailing through the 30 or so foot gaps in
> the breakwall between my mooring and the open lake. Some sail tuning
> is also necessary - one of my luff ties was a bit short, which put
> some wrinkles in the main luff. The fore topping lift is a bit too
> tight, which also created a less than perfect sail shape on the fore.
> Anyway, after 3 or 4 attempts I managed to drift through the breakwall
> channel into the lake (some paddling helped).
>
> Once out in the lake the wind picked up to about 12-15 knots - a nice
> short unpredictable chop that always happens with southerlies here as
> the waves bounce off the shore. We headed off 'close hauled' toward
> the islands heeling quite bit at times, but never feeling overpowered
> at all. The boat is very well behaved in those choppy conditions,
> although my crew in the foreward cockpit took quite a bit of spray,
> and also endured quite a bit of loud laughter from the helm.
>
> I need to add some more slots to the tiller comb (I used the comb
> specified in the plans rather than the tiller tamer approach that Gene
> is using).
>
> We clocked up to 6.6 mph, averaging about 5.5 mph on the gps. The boat
> is a lot of fun and very solid and stiff (I have 150 lbs of lead in
> the daggerboard as opposed to the 100 lbs specified in the plans...it
> worked on Sue's boat, and works well on mine too - but it does take
> two average sized people to raise and lower the daggerboard, or one if
> you're built like Arnie).
>
> I think Gene's idea of putting a solid foldable hatch cover over the
> fore cockpit is a good one. I may do that over the winter. It would
> give a bit of added confidence when single handing, and also save
> fiddling with a soft tarp when putting the boat to bed after a sail.
>
> Coming back we wing & winged the main and fore. This is very easy to
> do as without shrouds you can angle the booms out past 90 degrees if
> you like.
>
> We tacked quite a few times and gybed a few times too. Tacking in
> light air at the start was a bit unpredictable, but gybing even out on
> the lake in the higher breeze was very easy and gentle. This boat
> really likes a stronger wind. The sails tend to flop around a bit in
> light air.
>
> Main goal now is to do a bit of sail tuning, to get this thing to
> point just a bit closer than 90 degrees to the wind.;-)
>
> Mike T.
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sounds good Mike.

Thanks for the interesting sailing report, did you get any pictures
of the fun? Are your sails self-made or are they from a loft?

Graeme

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "efemiket" <efemike@...> wrote:
>
> I had my maiden voyage on my SHS (named 'Piraat') on Saturday. I had
> the temerity to enter myself and my crew in the annual Past the
> Island Race
I had my maiden voyage on my SHS (named 'Piraat') on Saturday. I had
the temerity to enter myself and my crew in the annual Past the Island
Race (used to be the Around the Island Race, but now the Toronto Port
Authority, in their infinite wisdom, has forbidden sailing through the
Western Gap, effectively putting the kybosh on sailing around the
Toronto Islands).

First off we had a little bit of difficulty making it to the start
line. I was a bit slow getting rigged, then the light southerly breeze
made it almost impossible to sailing through the 30 or so foot gaps in
the breakwall between my mooring and the open lake. Some sail tuning
is also necessary - one of my luff ties was a bit short, which put
some wrinkles in the main luff. The fore topping lift is a bit too
tight, which also created a less than perfect sail shape on the fore.
Anyway, after 3 or 4 attempts I managed to drift through the breakwall
channel into the lake (some paddling helped).

Once out in the lake the wind picked up to about 12-15 knots - a nice
short unpredictable chop that always happens with southerlies here as
the waves bounce off the shore. We headed off 'close hauled' toward
the islands heeling quite bit at times, but never feeling overpowered
at all. The boat is very well behaved in those choppy conditions,
although my crew in the foreward cockpit took quite a bit of spray,
and also endured quite a bit of loud laughter from the helm.

I need to add some more slots to the tiller comb (I used the comb
specified in the plans rather than the tiller tamer approach that Gene
is using).

We clocked up to 6.6 mph, averaging about 5.5 mph on the gps. The boat
is a lot of fun and very solid and stiff (I have 150 lbs of lead in
the daggerboard as opposed to the 100 lbs specified in the plans...it
worked on Sue's boat, and works well on mine too - but it does take
two average sized people to raise and lower the daggerboard, or one if
you're built like Arnie).

I think Gene's idea of putting a solid foldable hatch cover over the
fore cockpit is a good one. I may do that over the winter. It would
give a bit of added confidence when single handing, and also save
fiddling with a soft tarp when putting the boat to bed after a sail.

Coming back we wing & winged the main and fore. This is very easy to
do as without shrouds you can angle the booms out past 90 degrees if
you like.

We tacked quite a few times and gybed a few times too. Tacking in
light air at the start was a bit unpredictable, but gybing even out on
the lake in the higher breeze was very easy and gentle. This boat
really likes a stronger wind. The sails tend to flop around a bit in
light air.

Main goal now is to do a bit of sail tuning, to get this thing to
point just a bit closer than 90 degrees to the wind.;-)

Mike T.