Re: bouyancy bags
--- Inbolger@egroups.com, Stan Muller <smuller@i...> wrote:
one
or
boyancy is not list tha is why foam or containers are required this
is
better than in the early 80s when only foam was re
> Thank you, Gordon, Greg and Richard,that I
> Now, thanks to y'all, I understand how to figure the buoyancy
> need, and my sealed compartments are more than enough. So I havebut
one
> question left.a
> A while back, while looking at the Coast Guard page, for getting
> hull number, which I have since lost, (the URL, not the hullnumber)
> does anyone have the URL?it,
> I read that a compartment that is part of the hull, can not count as
> buoyancy. They indicated that you must have foam or containers in
> for it to count.let me
> Am I misunderstanding what they are trying to tell me? Please
> know what your understanding of this would be. Is this asuggestion,
or
> a ruling that they have?the idea is that if the hull is ruptured the air counting for
> Any help is appreciated, Stan, Snow Goose.
boyancy is not list tha is why foam or containers are required this
is
better than in the early 80s when only foam was re
Well Stan, your boat, being both light and possibly top
heavy, probably won't get help from low floatation.
Where flotation is actually placed effects self righting.
The ends in a boat with rocker or a turtleback are good for
doing that. Floatation on the bottom, if overdone, can make
the boat more stable upside down than upright. With a
paddlewheel yours won't be easy to turn back over come the
worst, though that assembly may discourage overturning in
the first place. Your pilot house would help a lot if all
closed up.
The level floatation does seem to work while having it
under the seats in a lot of carefully considered, certified
boats. I'll guess the plans for Micro show no or very little
foam at all.
For more to help make floatation placement clear see
http://www.apci.net/~michalak/1oct99.htm#EMERGENCYFLOTATION
Still waiting for that MAIB,
Mark
heavy, probably won't get help from low floatation.
Where flotation is actually placed effects self righting.
The ends in a boat with rocker or a turtleback are good for
doing that. Floatation on the bottom, if overdone, can make
the boat more stable upside down than upright. With a
paddlewheel yours won't be easy to turn back over come the
worst, though that assembly may discourage overturning in
the first place. Your pilot house would help a lot if all
closed up.
The level floatation does seem to work while having it
under the seats in a lot of carefully considered, certified
boats. I'll guess the plans for Micro show no or very little
foam at all.
For more to help make floatation placement clear see
http://www.apci.net/~michalak/1oct99.htm#EMERGENCYFLOTATION
Still waiting for that MAIB,
Mark
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Stan Muller" <smuller@...>
> To: <bolger@egroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2000 1:01 PM
> Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: bouyancy bags
>
> > Hi All;
> > Can someone explain how this business with the positive flotation,
> > and how it effects us, the home boat builder?
> > When I built my Micro, I made the area under the cockpit seats water
> > tight, and did the same thing with the bow well. Since I need these
> > areas for storage, I don't want to fill them with foam or bladders, but
> > according to what I read, if I don't, they won't count as flotation.
> > As to the real world application, with these compartments sealed, and
> > being filled with clothing, bedding, extra life jackets, etc. it would
> > take two well placed torpedoes to sink her. And if push came to shove,
> > since I did not install the keel ballast, I am already 420 pounds better
> > off than I would have been, had I not gone to a motor launch design.
> > So to the question; Can any of you number crunchers out there give me
> > some idea of what I am up against, i.e. volume, displacement, etceteras,
> > with out having to resort to the filling the boat up with water a bucket
> > full at a time, the way the coast guard suggests in their literature?
> > Any and all help will be appreciated. Thanks, Stan, Snow Goose
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > @Backup- Protect and Access your data any time, any where on the net.
> > Try @Backup FREE and receive 300 points from mypoints.com Install now:
> >http://click.egroups.com/1/6346/13/_/3457/_/962906349/
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
They want foam in it so it still works when holed. Not a bad idea in any
boat.
Gordon
Gordon Cougergcouger@...
Stillwater, OK www.couger.com/gcouger
405 624-2855 GMT -6:00
boat.
Gordon
Gordon Cougergcouger@...
Stillwater, OK www.couger.com/gcouger
405 624-2855 GMT -6:00
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stan Muller" <smuller@...>
To: <bolger@egroups.com>
Sent: Friday, July 07, 2000 10:19 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: bouyancy bags
> Thank you, Gordon, Greg and Richard,
> Now, thanks to y'all, I understand how to figure the buoyancy that I
> need, and my sealed compartments are more than enough. So I have but one
> question left.
> A while back, while looking at the Coast Guard page, for getting a
> hull number, which I have since lost, (the URL, not the hull number)
> does anyone have the URL?
> I read that a compartment that is part of the hull, can not count as
> buoyancy. They indicated that you must have foam or containers in it,
> for it to count.
> Am I misunderstanding what they are trying to tell me? Please let me
> know what your understanding of this would be. Is this a suggestion, or
> a ruling that they have?
> Any help is appreciated, Stan, Snow Goose.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Failed tests, classes skipped, forgotten locker combinations.
> Remember the good 'ol days
>http://click.egroups.com/1/5531/13/_/3457/_/963026205/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing
> - stay on topic
> - use punctuation
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> - add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
>
Thank you, Gordon, Greg and Richard,
Now, thanks to y'all, I understand how to figure the buoyancy that I
need, and my sealed compartments are more than enough. So I have but one
question left.
A while back, while looking at the Coast Guard page, for getting a
hull number, which I have since lost, (the URL, not the hull number)
does anyone have the URL?
I read that a compartment that is part of the hull, can not count as
buoyancy. They indicated that you must have foam or containers in it,
for it to count.
Am I misunderstanding what they are trying to tell me? Please let me
know what your understanding of this would be. Is this a suggestion, or
a ruling that they have?
Any help is appreciated, Stan, Snow Goose.
Now, thanks to y'all, I understand how to figure the buoyancy that I
need, and my sealed compartments are more than enough. So I have but one
question left.
A while back, while looking at the Coast Guard page, for getting a
hull number, which I have since lost, (the URL, not the hull number)
does anyone have the URL?
I read that a compartment that is part of the hull, can not count as
buoyancy. They indicated that you must have foam or containers in it,
for it to count.
Am I misunderstanding what they are trying to tell me? Please let me
know what your understanding of this would be. Is this a suggestion, or
a ruling that they have?
Any help is appreciated, Stan, Snow Goose.
From: "Stan Muller" <smuller@...>
of water minus the weight of stuff you have in them is the amout of
reserve bouyancy you have. A simpler way is to calcualate the volume of
sealed space and weigh the boat ready to sail and add the weight of the
crew. The sealed space in cubic feet times the density of water(62 to 68#)
minus the all up weight is the reserve bouyency. It doesn't make any
difference where the weight is. It all helps sink you when the boat fills
with water.
Gordon
Gordon Cougergcouger@...
Stillwater, OK www.couger.com/gcouger
405 624-2855 GMT -6:00
> Can someone explain how this business with the positive flotation,Calulate the volume of the water tight compartment. That times the density
> and how it effects us, the home boat builder?
> When I built my Micro, I made the area under the cockpit seats water
> tight, and did the same thing with the bow well. Since I need these
> areas for storage, I don't want to fill them with foam or bladders, but
> according to what I read, if I don't, they won't count as flotation.
> As to the real world application, with these compartments sealed, and
> being filled with clothing, bedding, extra life jackets, etc. it would
> take two well placed torpedoes to sink her. And if push came to shove,
> since I did not install the keel ballast, I am already 420 pounds better
> off than I would have been, had I not gone to a motor launch design.
> So to the question; Can any of you number crunchers out there give me
> some idea of what I am up against, i.e. volume, displacement, etceteras,
> with out having to resort to the filling the boat up with water a bucket
> full at a time, the way the coast guard suggests in their literature?
> Any and all help will be appreciated. Thanks, Stan, Snow Goose
of water minus the weight of stuff you have in them is the amout of
reserve bouyancy you have. A simpler way is to calcualate the volume of
sealed space and weigh the boat ready to sail and add the weight of the
crew. The sealed space in cubic feet times the density of water(62 to 68#)
minus the all up weight is the reserve bouyency. It doesn't make any
difference where the weight is. It all helps sink you when the boat fills
with water.
Gordon
Gordon Cougergcouger@...
Stillwater, OK www.couger.com/gcouger
405 624-2855 GMT -6:00
Michalak figures that wood is about half the density of water.
So, if your wood boat weight 600 lb empty, you have 300 pounds of floatation
already.
Subtract the submerged weight of whatever elses you have one the boat,
battery, engine, etc, and you have your floatation.
For instance, Entropy probably weights about 700 lb empty. My battery and
trolling motor weight about 75 lb, and take up around 1 cubic ft of space.
So, say they would weigh 15-25 lb submerged.
Everything else on the boat floats, including the people, so I don't bother
with their weights.
So, figure 700/2 - 25 gives me about 325lb of floatation if the hull, and
the floatation box in the back, is completely flooded.
Richard Spelling,http://www.spellingbusiness.com/boats
From the muddy waters of Oklahoma
So, if your wood boat weight 600 lb empty, you have 300 pounds of floatation
already.
Subtract the submerged weight of whatever elses you have one the boat,
battery, engine, etc, and you have your floatation.
For instance, Entropy probably weights about 700 lb empty. My battery and
trolling motor weight about 75 lb, and take up around 1 cubic ft of space.
So, say they would weigh 15-25 lb submerged.
Everything else on the boat floats, including the people, so I don't bother
with their weights.
So, figure 700/2 - 25 gives me about 325lb of floatation if the hull, and
the floatation box in the back, is completely flooded.
Richard Spelling,http://www.spellingbusiness.com/boats
From the muddy waters of Oklahoma
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stan Muller" <smuller@...>
To: <bolger@egroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2000 1:01 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: bouyancy bags
> Hi All;
> Can someone explain how this business with the positive flotation,
> and how it effects us, the home boat builder?
> When I built my Micro, I made the area under the cockpit seats water
> tight, and did the same thing with the bow well. Since I need these
> areas for storage, I don't want to fill them with foam or bladders, but
> according to what I read, if I don't, they won't count as flotation.
> As to the real world application, with these compartments sealed, and
> being filled with clothing, bedding, extra life jackets, etc. it would
> take two well placed torpedoes to sink her. And if push came to shove,
> since I did not install the keel ballast, I am already 420 pounds better
> off than I would have been, had I not gone to a motor launch design.
> So to the question; Can any of you number crunchers out there give me
> some idea of what I am up against, i.e. volume, displacement, etceteras,
> with out having to resort to the filling the boat up with water a bucket
> full at a time, the way the coast guard suggests in their literature?
> Any and all help will be appreciated. Thanks, Stan, Snow Goose
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> @Backup- Protect and Access your data any time, any where on the net.
> Try @Backup FREE and receive 300 points from mypoints.com Install now:
>http://click.egroups.com/1/6346/13/_/3457/_/962906349/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing
> - stay on topic
> - use punctuation
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> - add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
>
Hi All;
Can someone explain how this business with the positive flotation,
and how it effects us, the home boat builder?
When I built my Micro, I made the area under the cockpit seats water
tight, and did the same thing with the bow well. Since I need these
areas for storage, I don't want to fill them with foam or bladders, but
according to what I read, if I don't, they won't count as flotation.
As to the real world application, with these compartments sealed, and
being filled with clothing, bedding, extra life jackets, etc. it would
take two well placed torpedoes to sink her. And if push came to shove,
since I did not install the keel ballast, I am already 420 pounds better
off than I would have been, had I not gone to a motor launch design.
So to the question; Can any of you number crunchers out there give me
some idea of what I am up against, i.e. volume, displacement, etceteras,
with out having to resort to the filling the boat up with water a bucket
full at a time, the way the coast guard suggests in their literature?
Any and all help will be appreciated. Thanks, Stan, Snow Goose
Can someone explain how this business with the positive flotation,
and how it effects us, the home boat builder?
When I built my Micro, I made the area under the cockpit seats water
tight, and did the same thing with the bow well. Since I need these
areas for storage, I don't want to fill them with foam or bladders, but
according to what I read, if I don't, they won't count as flotation.
As to the real world application, with these compartments sealed, and
being filled with clothing, bedding, extra life jackets, etc. it would
take two well placed torpedoes to sink her. And if push came to shove,
since I did not install the keel ballast, I am already 420 pounds better
off than I would have been, had I not gone to a motor launch design.
So to the question; Can any of you number crunchers out there give me
some idea of what I am up against, i.e. volume, displacement, etceteras,
with out having to resort to the filling the boat up with water a bucket
full at a time, the way the coast guard suggests in their literature?
Any and all help will be appreciated. Thanks, Stan, Snow Goose
Bouyancy equals water displaced. Water weighs 64 pounds per cubic foot or 8
pounds per gallon. 231 cubic inches per gallon. Find the volume and you
know the bouyancy contribution for each space.
Gregg Carlson
At 01:01 PM 7/6/00 -0500, you wrote:
pounds per gallon. 231 cubic inches per gallon. Find the volume and you
know the bouyancy contribution for each space.
Gregg Carlson
At 01:01 PM 7/6/00 -0500, you wrote:
>Hi All;
> Can someone explain how this business with the positive flotation,
>and how it effects us, the home boat builder?
> When I built my Micro, I made the area under the cockpit seats water
>tight, and did the same thing with the bow well. Since I need these
>areas for storage, I don't want to fill them with foam or bladders, but
>according to what I read, if I don't, they won't count as flotation.
> As to the real world application, with these compartments sealed, and
>being filled with clothing, bedding, extra life jackets, etc. it would
>take two well placed torpedoes to sink her. And if push came to shove,
>since I did not install the keel ballast, I am already 420 pounds better
>off than I would have been, had I not gone to a motor launch design.
> So to the question; Can any of you number crunchers out there give me
>some idea of what I am up against, i.e. volume, displacement, etceteras,
>with out having to resort to the filling the boat up with water a bucket
>full at a time, the way the coast guard suggests in their literature?
> Any and all help will be appreciated. Thanks, Stan, Snow Goose
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>Try @Backup FREE and receive 300 points from mypoints.com Install now:
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>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- no cursing
>- stay on topic
>- use punctuation
>- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
>- add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
>
>