Re: PT decking?
Need to do some more work now that the days are getting shorter and I
have more time. Need to do some updateing too.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jons_boat_building/sets/72157602709911781
/
Jon
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, ".Randy Powell" <rpspiritwaters@...>
wrote:
have more time. Need to do some updateing too.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jons_boat_building/sets/72157602709911781
/
Jon
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, ".Randy Powell" <rpspiritwaters@...>
wrote:
>
> Jon,
> Do you have any pictures for us all to enjoy???
> Randy
>
> --- On Sun, 10/5/08, Jon & Wanda(Tink) <windyjon@...> wrote:
>
> From: Jon & Wanda(Tink) <windyjon@...>
> Subject: [bolger] Re: PT decking?
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Received: Sunday, October 5, 2008, 12:33 AM
Jon,
Do you have any pictures for us all to enjoy???
Randy
Do you have any pictures for us all to enjoy???
Randy
--- On Sun, 10/5/08, Jon & Wanda(Tink) <windyjon@...> wrote:
From: Jon & Wanda(Tink) <windyjon@...>
Subject: [bolger] Re: PT decking?
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Received: Sunday, October 5, 2008, 12:33 AM
It has had many poor repairs and some poor storage in the past. It was
inside in the dry for almost ten years and some planks with poor grain
where split pritty bad. The paint was marine with a high copper bottom
paint but the bright work was all but gone. Sister ribs where poorly
done and rot not tepaired or stoped. Think how long it would have
lasted if taken care of properly rather then half way. There are
lightnings 50, 60 and nearly 70 years old in good shape.
Jon
--- In bolger@yahoogroups. com, ".Randy Powell" <rpspiritwaters@ ...>
wrote:
>
> You do have a very good point. Most of the boats I work on are
Muskoka based, these owners spare no expense at storage and repair,
that said proper coatings, careful storage and attention to keeping
your dry with in reason will extend your boats life. 1963 you say, that
would make it 46 I dare say it seems to of survived OK with only
traditional coatings.
> Randy
__________________________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
It has had many poor repairs and some poor storage in the past. It was
inside in the dry for almost ten years and some planks with poor grain
where split pritty bad. The paint was marine with a high copper bottom
paint but the bright work was all but gone. Sister ribs where poorly
done and rot not tepaired or stoped. Think how long it would have
lasted if taken care of properly rather then half way. There are
lightnings 50, 60 and nearly 70 years old in good shape.
Jon
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, ".Randy Powell" <rpspiritwaters@...>
wrote:
that said proper coatings, careful storage and attention to keeping
your dry with in reason will extend your boats life. 1963 you say, that
would make it 46 I dare say it seems to of survived OK with only
traditional coatings.
inside in the dry for almost ten years and some planks with poor grain
where split pritty bad. The paint was marine with a high copper bottom
paint but the bright work was all but gone. Sister ribs where poorly
done and rot not tepaired or stoped. Think how long it would have
lasted if taken care of properly rather then half way. There are
lightnings 50, 60 and nearly 70 years old in good shape.
Jon
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, ".Randy Powell" <rpspiritwaters@...>
wrote:
>Muskoka based, these owners spare no expense at storage and repair,
> You do have a very good point. Most of the boats I work on are
that said proper coatings, careful storage and attention to keeping
your dry with in reason will extend your boats life. 1963 you say, that
would make it 46 I dare say it seems to of survived OK with only
traditional coatings.
> Randy
You do have a very good point. Most of the boats I work on are Muskoka based, these owners spare no expense at storage and repair, that said proper coatings, careful storage and attention to keeping your dry with in reason will extend your boats life. 1963 you say, that would make it 46 I dare say it seems to of survived OK with only traditional coatings.
Randy
Randy
--- On Sat, 10/4/08, Jon & Wanda(Tink) <windyjon@...> wrote:
From: Jon & Wanda(Tink) <windyjon@...>
Subject: [bolger] Re: PT decking?
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Received: Saturday, October 4, 2008, 6:43 PM
Well said I am restoring a 1962 Lightning that is built with Mahogany
and Ceder and it is the Mahogany where the rot is. Just as important
is care after build in the life of a boat for the way the boat is
built and of what. Wetboats need to be taken cate of differentlythen
dry boats and system for building and sealing are also different.
What works for one will shorten the life of the other.
Jon
--- In bolger@yahoogroups. com, ".Randy Powell" <rpspiritwaters@ ...>
wrote:
>
> I don't want to sound like a wood snob but there are a number of
great choices for boat building without using substandard "home"
products. I have removed Mahogany and Douglas Fir that is 60 and 70
years old and reinstalled it in boats. Not to say that theses are the
only good selections, but if you are spending all of this time and
effort on a build why try to cut corners and save a bit of money only
to have your boat rot out much quicker.
> Any of the Mahogany's, D Fir, Long Leaf Yellow Pine for all you
Southern builders, white Oak, and Black Locusts just to name a few.
Wooden Boats has a recent article on the water Resistance of the
Mahogany's.
> No job is worth doing by half
> Randy
> --- On Sun, 9/28/08, dnjost <davidjost@. ..> wrote:
>
> From: dnjost <davidjost@. ..>
> Subject: [bolger] PT decking?
> To: bolger@yahoogroups. com
> Received: Sunday, September 28, 2008, 10:33 PM
__________________________________________________________________
Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr!
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Well said I am restoring a 1962 Lightning that is built with Mahogany
and Ceder and it is the Mahogany where the rot is. Just as important
is care after build in the life of a boat for the way the boat is
built and of what. Wetboats need to be taken cate of differentlythen
dry boats and system for building and sealing are also different.
What works for one will shorten the life of the other.
Jon
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, ".Randy Powell" <rpspiritwaters@...>
wrote:
products. I have removed Mahogany and Douglas Fir that is 60 and 70
years old and reinstalled it in boats. Not to say that theses are the
only good selections, but if you are spending all of this time and
effort on a build why try to cut corners and save a bit of money only
to have your boat rot out much quicker.
Wooden Boats has a recent article on the water Resistance of the
Mahogany's.
and Ceder and it is the Mahogany where the rot is. Just as important
is care after build in the life of a boat for the way the boat is
built and of what. Wetboats need to be taken cate of differentlythen
dry boats and system for building and sealing are also different.
What works for one will shorten the life of the other.
Jon
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, ".Randy Powell" <rpspiritwaters@...>
wrote:
>great choices for boat building without using substandard "home"
> I don't want to sound like a wood snob but there are a number of
products. I have removed Mahogany and Douglas Fir that is 60 and 70
years old and reinstalled it in boats. Not to say that theses are the
only good selections, but if you are spending all of this time and
effort on a build why try to cut corners and save a bit of money only
to have your boat rot out much quicker.
> Any of the Mahogany's, D Fir, Long Leaf Yellow Pine for all youSouthern builders, white Oak, and Black Locusts just to name a few.
Wooden Boats has a recent article on the water Resistance of the
Mahogany's.
> No job is worth doing by half
> Randy
> --- On Sun, 9/28/08, dnjost <davidjost@...> wrote:
>
> From: dnjost <davidjost@...>
> Subject: [bolger] PT decking?
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Received: Sunday, September 28, 2008, 10:33 PM
I don't want to sound like a wood snob but there are a number of great choices for boat building without using substandard "home" products. I have removed Mahogany and Douglas Fir that is 60 and 70 years old and reinstalled it in boats. Not to say that theses are the only good selections, but if you are spending all of this time and effort on a build why try to cut corners and save a bit of money only to have your boat rot out much quicker.
Any of the Mahogany's, D Fir, Long Leaf Yellow Pine for all you Southern builders, white Oak, and Black Locusts just to name a few. Wooden Boats has a recent article on the water Resistance of the Mahogany's.
No job is worth doing by half
Randy
Any of the Mahogany's, D Fir, Long Leaf Yellow Pine for all you Southern builders, white Oak, and Black Locusts just to name a few. Wooden Boats has a recent article on the water Resistance of the Mahogany's.
No job is worth doing by half
Randy
--- On Sun, 9/28/08, dnjost <davidjost@...> wrote:
From: dnjost <davidjost@...>
Subject: [bolger] PT decking?
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Received: Sunday, September 28, 2008, 10:33 PM
While building my 18' Workskiff, I came across some very nice pressure
treated Southern Yellow Pine that seems just the right stuff for the
chines. I am gluing up a test piece to see how happy it takes to
epoxy. Will file a report this week with an update.
Has anyone tried this?
David Jost
"working between the raindrops of Kyle"
__________________________________________________________________
Connect with friends from any web browser - no download required. Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger for the Web BETA athttp://ca.messenger.yahoo.com/webmessengerpromo.php
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Thank you for the correction. This is what I was meaning but I forgot to type correctly and I omit the world "longleaf".
That wood is like gold for me, is nice straight grained and was left for 85 years in a perfect enviroment (the attic of a Sunday School building at my church and the roof was always keept in good leak proof conditions since the construction). I wish there was more time to salvage more lumber but someone donated the money for the disposal containers and for the buldozzer so all went very quick and I got only one day to salvage the most I can, while all the remaining went in splinters max 24" long the very next day. (Really very sad to loose so much good wood) Unfortunatly the environmentalist found some traces of asbestos in the joint compound on the sheetrock and therefore the manual demolition was going to be extremely expensive if done by a contractor.
I removed as much material I can with the help of two friends but at a certain point we were forced to leave the building in a hurry when we feel the ceiling dropping down about five inches under our feet.
Giuliano
That wood is like gold for me, is nice straight grained and was left for 85 years in a perfect enviroment (the attic of a Sunday School building at my church and the roof was always keept in good leak proof conditions since the construction). I wish there was more time to salvage more lumber but someone donated the money for the disposal containers and for the buldozzer so all went very quick and I got only one day to salvage the most I can, while all the remaining went in splinters max 24" long the very next day. (Really very sad to loose so much good wood) Unfortunatly the environmentalist found some traces of asbestos in the joint compound on the sheetrock and therefore the manual demolition was going to be extremely expensive if done by a contractor.
I removed as much material I can with the help of two friends but at a certain point we were forced to leave the building in a hurry when we feel the ceiling dropping down about five inches under our feet.
Giuliano
--- On Thu, 10/2/08, Chris Crandall <crandall@...> wrote:
From: Chris Crandall <crandall@...>
Subject: [bolger] Re: Re: PT decking?
To: "No Reply" <notify-dg-bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Cc:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, October 2, 2008, 8:53 PM
Guiliano:
What you are calling SYP is longleaf pine. SYP is a collection of many
different kinds of pine trees (jack pine, slash pine, etc.). Longleaf
pine can be categorized as SYP, and old-growth longleaf pine is a real
treasure of a wood. Save it and use it wisely. It will take epoxy.
Modern SYP is less good, and modern longleaf pine tends to be less good,
too, in part because it is induced, as you say, to grow more quickly.
This is part genetic, and part the way it is treated by foresters. The
same is true these days with Douglas firin the opposite part of the
country. The old growth stuff is amazing, the new stuff is pretty OK.
> Posted by: "Giuliano Girometta" ggboat1@yahoo. com ggboat1 Date: Wed
> Oct 1, 2008 7:49 pm ((PDT))
>
> Recently I salvaged several boards from the demolition of a 85 year
> old building. The wood look like some kind of pine but I was not sure
> because i never seen anthing like that. So I consulted with someone
> expert in woods. The wood is "Southern Yellow Pine" and that is the
> real one. The guy explained to me that today's SYP is different
> because now they alter the genetic of the seeds in order to obtain
> fast growing threes. The old grow is much strongher and rot resistant
> that the new one and he also told me to be ready to re-sharp the saw
> blades, jointer and planer knifes very often if I am going to use
> such wood. In fact, the SYP is classified as a good replacement for
> white oak. I am planning to use such wood for the frames of my Atkin
> Unsanctioned. I also discovered in a local museum that SYP was the
> major shipbuilding lumber here in Texas in the 1800 and even during
> WW1 some cargo ships were constructed with SYP and pieces of vessels
> constructed in the late 1800 survived somewhere till about 15 years
> ago before entering the display cabinet at the museum. About epoxy
> and treated SYP, according to the report and tests performed by the
> US Forest Service the bonding is good as with untreated wood, but the
> treated wood must be dry and not impregnated as most commonly found
> at the retail stores. After the wood is dry, the weight also return
> to the original value. (Some lumberyards carry dry PT).
>
> Giuliano
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Guiliano:
What you are calling SYP is longleaf pine. SYP is a collection of many
different kinds of pine trees (jack pine, slash pine, etc.). Longleaf
pine can be categorized as SYP, and old-growth longleaf pine is a real
treasure of a wood. Save it and use it wisely. It will take epoxy.
Modern SYP is less good, and modern longleaf pine tends to be less good,
too, in part because it is induced, as you say, to grow more quickly.
This is part genetic, and part the way it is treated by foresters. The
same is true these days with Douglas firin the opposite part of the
country. The old growth stuff is amazing, the new stuff is pretty OK.
What you are calling SYP is longleaf pine. SYP is a collection of many
different kinds of pine trees (jack pine, slash pine, etc.). Longleaf
pine can be categorized as SYP, and old-growth longleaf pine is a real
treasure of a wood. Save it and use it wisely. It will take epoxy.
Modern SYP is less good, and modern longleaf pine tends to be less good,
too, in part because it is induced, as you say, to grow more quickly.
This is part genetic, and part the way it is treated by foresters. The
same is true these days with Douglas firin the opposite part of the
country. The old growth stuff is amazing, the new stuff is pretty OK.
> Posted by: "Giuliano Girometta"ggboat1@...ggboat1 Date: Wed
> Oct 1, 2008 7:49 pm ((PDT))
>
> Recently I salvaged several boards from the demolition of a 85 year
> old building. The wood look like some kind of pine but I was not sure
> because i never seen anthing like that. So I consulted with someone
> expert in woods. The wood is "Southern Yellow Pine" and that is the
> real one. The guy explained to me that today's SYP is different
> because now they alter the genetic of the seeds in order to obtain
> fast growing threes. The old grow is much strongher and rot resistant
> that the new one and he also told me to be ready to re-sharp the saw
> blades, jointer and planer knifes very often if I am going to use
> such wood. In fact, the SYP is classified as a good replacement for
> white oak. I am planning to use such wood for the frames of my Atkin
> Unsanctioned. I also discovered in a local museum that SYP was the
> major shipbuilding lumber here in Texas in the 1800 and even during
> WW1 some cargo ships were constructed with SYP and pieces of vessels
> constructed in the late 1800 survived somewhere till about 15 years
> ago before entering the display cabinet at the museum. About epoxy
> and treated SYP, according to the report and tests performed by the
> US Forest Service the bonding is good as with untreated wood, but the
> treated wood must be dry and not impregnated as most commonly found
> at the retail stores. After the wood is dry, the weight also return
> to the original value. (Some lumberyards carry dry PT).
>
> Giuliano
Let me try to get this across again. In just the last few years they
changed the chemistry by federal law for PT lumber. Old and new
chemistry reacted with glue bonding of any type and the new with most
fasteners. Both chemistrys cycle salts to the surface with moisture
content changes.
MDO is great for boat building if it is a good grade of MDO good thing
to check on. Exterior ply has notmaly thicker iner plys and thinner
surface plyes. Marine has typicaly even thickness plys no voids on iner
plys more plys for thickness and more of the same glue. MDO of a good
grade will have even thickness iner plys a thin outer ply and the
overlay good cores and even more of the same glue as marine. HDO is
like MDO but the overlay is harder smoth and bonds poorly.
changed the chemistry by federal law for PT lumber. Old and new
chemistry reacted with glue bonding of any type and the new with most
fasteners. Both chemistrys cycle salts to the surface with moisture
content changes.
MDO is great for boat building if it is a good grade of MDO good thing
to check on. Exterior ply has notmaly thicker iner plys and thinner
surface plyes. Marine has typicaly even thickness plys no voids on iner
plys more plys for thickness and more of the same glue. MDO of a good
grade will have even thickness iner plys a thin outer ply and the
overlay good cores and even more of the same glue as marine. HDO is
like MDO but the overlay is harder smoth and bonds poorly.
Recently I salvaged several boards from the demolition of a 85 year old building.
The wood look like some kind of pine but I was not sure because i never seen anthing like that. So I consulted with someone expert in woods.
The wood is "Southern Yellow Pine" and that is the real one.
The guy explained to me that today's SYP is different because now they alter the genetic of the seeds in order to obtain fast growing threes.
The old grow is much strongher and rot resistant that the new one and he also told me to be ready to re-sharp the saw blades, jointer and planer knifes very often if I am going to use such wood.
In fact, the SYP is classified as a good replacement for white oak.
I am planning to use such wood for the frames of my Atkin Unsanctioned.
I also discovered in a local museum that SYP was the major shipbuilding lumber here in Texas in the 1800 and even during WW1 some cargo ships were constructed with SYP and pieces of vessels constructed in the late 1800 survived somewhere till about 15 years ago before entering the display cabinet at the museum.
About epoxy and treated SYP, according to the report and tests performed by the US Forest Service the bonding is good as with untreated wood, but the treated wood must be dry and not impregnated as most commonly found at the retail stores. After the wood is dry, the weight also return to the original value. (Some lumberyards carry dry PT).
Giuliano
The wood look like some kind of pine but I was not sure because i never seen anthing like that. So I consulted with someone expert in woods.
The wood is "Southern Yellow Pine" and that is the real one.
The guy explained to me that today's SYP is different because now they alter the genetic of the seeds in order to obtain fast growing threes.
The old grow is much strongher and rot resistant that the new one and he also told me to be ready to re-sharp the saw blades, jointer and planer knifes very often if I am going to use such wood.
In fact, the SYP is classified as a good replacement for white oak.
I am planning to use such wood for the frames of my Atkin Unsanctioned.
I also discovered in a local museum that SYP was the major shipbuilding lumber here in Texas in the 1800 and even during WW1 some cargo ships were constructed with SYP and pieces of vessels constructed in the late 1800 survived somewhere till about 15 years ago before entering the display cabinet at the museum.
About epoxy and treated SYP, according to the report and tests performed by the US Forest Service the bonding is good as with untreated wood, but the treated wood must be dry and not impregnated as most commonly found at the retail stores. After the wood is dry, the weight also return to the original value. (Some lumberyards carry dry PT).
Giuliano
--- On Wed, 10/1/08, Fred Schumacher <fredschum@...> wrote:
From: Fred Schumacher <fredschum@...>
Subject: Re: [bolger] PT decking?
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, October 1, 2008, 9:02 PM
If you live in the north, the pressure treated wood you get could be Red
Pine (pinus resinosa, also called Norway Pine). This is lighter than SYP and
nearly as strong as Douglas Fir. It takes pressure treating beautifully and
doesn't need holes poked into it, like White Pine. Red Pine is an extremely
tough wood. My logger friend says you can skid a log and wrap it around a
tree and it won't break.
Fred Schumacher
On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 5:33 PM, dnjost <davidjost@verizon. net> wrote:
> While building my 18' Workskiff, I came across some very nice pressure
> treated Southern Yellow Pine that seems just the right stuff for the
> chines. I am gluing up a test piece to see how happy it takes to
> epoxy. Will file a report this week with an update.
>
> Has anyone tried this?
>
> David Jost
> "working between the raindrops of Kyle"
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
If you live in the north, the pressure treated wood you get could be Red
Pine (pinus resinosa, also called Norway Pine). This is lighter than SYP and
nearly as strong as Douglas Fir. It takes pressure treating beautifully and
doesn't need holes poked into it, like White Pine. Red Pine is an extremely
tough wood. My logger friend says you can skid a log and wrap it around a
tree and it won't break.
Fred Schumacher
Pine (pinus resinosa, also called Norway Pine). This is lighter than SYP and
nearly as strong as Douglas Fir. It takes pressure treating beautifully and
doesn't need holes poked into it, like White Pine. Red Pine is an extremely
tough wood. My logger friend says you can skid a log and wrap it around a
tree and it won't break.
Fred Schumacher
On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 5:33 PM, dnjost <davidjost@...> wrote:
> While building my 18' Workskiff, I came across some very nice pressure
> treated Southern Yellow Pine that seems just the right stuff for the
> chines. I am gluing up a test piece to see how happy it takes to
> epoxy. Will file a report this week with an update.
>
> Has anyone tried this?
>
> David Jost
> "working between the raindrops of Kyle"
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I put the lay up to the test today. I stepped on the glued 1X1 PT
strips and low and behold I am now the proud owner of two tomato stakes.
The pieces parted nicely at the glue line with minimal damage to the
surrounding wood.
In my honest opinion PT Southern Yellow Pine is not a suitable
boatbuilding product.
strips and low and behold I am now the proud owner of two tomato stakes.
The pieces parted nicely at the glue line with minimal damage to the
surrounding wood.
In my honest opinion PT Southern Yellow Pine is not a suitable
boatbuilding product.
Chris
Are you sure about the glue thing? I was told a few
years ago that marine ply and exterior used the same
glue. Do you know what the difference is?
I was at my neighborhood Lowe's the other day and the
most likely-looking stuff they had featured a sign
saying "only for use in sheltered applications" (or
something to that effect). Has the whole industry
changed with out me being notified?
Dave
I have given two cousins to war and I stand ready to sacrifice my wife's brother. -Artemus Ward
Are you sure about the glue thing? I was told a few
years ago that marine ply and exterior used the same
glue. Do you know what the difference is?
I was at my neighborhood Lowe's the other day and the
most likely-looking stuff they had featured a sign
saying "only for use in sheltered applications" (or
something to that effect). Has the whole industry
changed with out me being notified?
Dave
I have given two cousins to war and I stand ready to sacrifice my wife's brother. -Artemus Ward
Many books I have read mention that MDO (Dura-ply in Canada) is also an
excellent product for boat building. Apparently it's made for outdoor signs,
I have looked at it but have never had the chance to try it out. Just a
thought :-)
Steve
_____
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
dnjost
Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 6:17 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: PT decking?
Great insight and advice. I am going with 5/4 Doug Fir as i have found
a local yard with lots in stock.
I will experiment with a June Bug in the spring with the SYP and see
how it does. the glue up I did will be primed and painted and left to
the elements all winter clamped under stress to the deck. Will report
back in March.
thanks
David
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG -http://www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.173 / Virus Database: 270.7.5/1701 - Release Date: 9/30/2008
7:08 PM
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
excellent product for boat building. Apparently it's made for outdoor signs,
I have looked at it but have never had the chance to try it out. Just a
thought :-)
Steve
_____
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
dnjost
Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 6:17 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: PT decking?
Great insight and advice. I am going with 5/4 Doug Fir as i have found
a local yard with lots in stock.
I will experiment with a June Bug in the spring with the SYP and see
how it does. the glue up I did will be primed and painted and left to
the elements all winter clamped under stress to the deck. Will report
back in March.
thanks
David
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG -http://www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.173 / Virus Database: 270.7.5/1701 - Release Date: 9/30/2008
7:08 PM
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 3c. > Posted by: "dnjost"davidjost@...dnjostDavid: The difference between "AB Marine Ply" and ACX is NOT rot
> Date: Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:09 am ((PDT))
>
> Thanks to all for your thoughts. I have located 16' clear 5/4 SYP
> boards no more than 30 miles from home. They also stock AB Marine Ply.
> at $60 per sheet for 1/2". No need to risk playing with the pressure
> treated stuff or using ACX for the bottom, rot should not be such an
> issue now.
resistance (or at least, not much). The difference is in the quality of
the glue, and the relative number of voids within the plys (and how
these voids are treated). OK, and B is cleaner and nicer than C.
Your worries about rot are not over for the plywood, and I wouldn't
treat either plywood different--they are both reasonably rot resistant,
and your concerns are going to be at the joints and joins, where fresh
water will be the issue.
You are likely find AB marine ply superior wood in many ways, and worth
the extra $$$'s. But you still must be vigilant about rot.
See Jim Michalak's next-most recent website posting on rot:
http://www.jimsboats.com/15sep08.htm
You can see my personal grief in photos there.
FWIW, the first boat I built was made of strips ripped from 5/4" PT
decking. After a tree fell over and smashed the deck behind our house, a
boat seemed like a better destination for the old deck than the
landfill. The 14' boat weighed a ton (well ... more than one wants a 14'
boat to weigh, anyway). After a couple voyages to prove that it didn't
sink, it landed in a pre-school playground (with holes in the bottom to
let the rain out).
So far as I know, it is still there 17 years later, providing voyages to
Australia and other destinations in the "Continent Song". Edge-nailed
the strips with galvanized finishing nails, glued with liquid nails,
painted with latex, minimal thought to priming or whatever. The wood was
well-seasoned -- probably at least 8 years in the north Louisiana sun
and rain. May have been repainted, but not in the first few years.
Patrick
dnjost wrote:
decking. After a tree fell over and smashed the deck behind our house, a
boat seemed like a better destination for the old deck than the
landfill. The 14' boat weighed a ton (well ... more than one wants a 14'
boat to weigh, anyway). After a couple voyages to prove that it didn't
sink, it landed in a pre-school playground (with holes in the bottom to
let the rain out).
So far as I know, it is still there 17 years later, providing voyages to
Australia and other destinations in the "Continent Song". Edge-nailed
the strips with galvanized finishing nails, glued with liquid nails,
painted with latex, minimal thought to priming or whatever. The wood was
well-seasoned -- probably at least 8 years in the north Louisiana sun
and rain. May have been repainted, but not in the first few years.
Patrick
dnjost wrote:
> The test so far is positive. I have a real good glue bond between to
> overlapped 8' 1.5 x 1.5" strips. side to side motion cannot break the
> bond. I will develop a torsion test to see if somehow I can get the
> glue to break with maximum torque applied vertically to the glue line.
> I can see the Mythbusters folks having some fun with this.
>
> The caveat about painting is probably true, but I bet if I epoxy the
> surfaces throroughly I can then paint over it. However, after all that
> work I would probably be better off just locating some southern yellow
> pine that is untreated. It is not available at my local central
> Massachusetts lumber yards. For what it's worth my Pointy Skiff with
> external chines made out of common spf boards with good ply is going on
> it's 25th year with only a couple of rot spots showing up in the past
> few years.
>
> David Jost
>
>
Great insight and advice. I am going with 5/4 Doug Fir as i have found
a local yard with lots in stock.
I will experiment with a June Bug in the spring with the SYP and see
how it does. the glue up I did will be primed and painted and left to
the elements all winter clamped under stress to the deck. Will report
back in March.
thanks
David
a local yard with lots in stock.
I will experiment with a June Bug in the spring with the SYP and see
how it does. the glue up I did will be primed and painted and left to
the elements all winter clamped under stress to the deck. Will report
back in March.
thanks
David
Great insight and advice. I am going with 5/4 Doug Fir as i have found
a local yard with lots in stock.
I will experiment with a June Bug in the spring with the SYP and see
how it does. the glue up I did will be primed and painted and left to
the elements all winter clamped under stress to the deck. Will report
back in March.
thanks
David
a local yard with lots in stock.
I will experiment with a June Bug in the spring with the SYP and see
how it does. the glue up I did will be primed and painted and left to
the elements all winter clamped under stress to the deck. Will report
back in March.
thanks
David
> Posted by: "dnjost"davidjost@...dnjostDave,
> Date: Tue Sep 30, 2008 5:25 am ((PDT))
> snip
> The caveat about painting is probably true, . . .
For what it's worth, here's my 'real time' experience. While not actually on
a boat, it's an exposure to the same environmental conditions . . . in the
Northern Mid-Atlantic area of the US East coast.
Several years ago -due to a water problem- we enlarged our small patio to
the full width of the house. This gave us the opportunity to keep the grill
out year round. To facilitate this I made a decorative 'privacy screen' for
the area. It also acted as a fence to the good sized vegetable 'side garden'
{we have two 'Large & Hungry' Malamutes . . think 100-lb rabbits !!}. Two PT
4x4 as end posts {topped 'Pineapple' finials}, two PT 2x4's for top & bottom
rails, and a piece of white vinyl 'cross-hatch' screen. The wood got two
coats of water-based primer, then two coats of White water-based house
paint. Stainless Steel screws, of course. Simple yet elegant.
Bottom line . . ?? Haven't touched it since I built it. No 'refreshing' of
the paint, exposed to snow, ice, sun. rain, and spray from daily garden
watering.
As an additional note . . . I built Joanne a 'Rose Trellis Entrance for the
front of the house. Same PT 2x4's, same finish, same result.
For me - I think a good priming is the key. Also letting the primer 'cure'
per instructions {which is actually true for all H20 'paints'} - at least a
full 14-days at 50 percent, or lower, humidity.
Regards,
Ron Magen
Backyard Boatshop
{If anyone is interested, I'll post a couple of photo's}
No problems at all with SYP here in the NW we use CVG Douglas Fir.
Sorry couldn't help it.
Jon
Sorry couldn't help it.
Jon
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "oarmandt" <oarman89@...> wrote:
>
> Forget the PT, worry about the SYP. Somewhere PCB recommends against
> using SYP, I am guessing for glued construction. My Birdwatcher has
> SYP external chines. One has warped and pulled away from the side
> panel. It was not too hard to fix, just fill the gap with more epoxy.
> But then, a month or two later, the adjacent section of chine pulls
> away from the side.
>
> Maybe if you are careful to use only quarter sawn stock, it will
> behave better during wet/dry cycles.
>
> Has anyone else had problems with non-PT SYP?
>
> Doug
Forget the PT, worry about the SYP. Somewhere PCB recommends against
using SYP, I am guessing for glued construction. My Birdwatcher has
SYP external chines. One has warped and pulled away from the side
panel. It was not too hard to fix, just fill the gap with more epoxy.
But then, a month or two later, the adjacent section of chine pulls
away from the side.
Maybe if you are careful to use only quarter sawn stock, it will
behave better during wet/dry cycles.
Has anyone else had problems with non-PT SYP?
Doug
using SYP, I am guessing for glued construction. My Birdwatcher has
SYP external chines. One has warped and pulled away from the side
panel. It was not too hard to fix, just fill the gap with more epoxy.
But then, a month or two later, the adjacent section of chine pulls
away from the side.
Maybe if you are careful to use only quarter sawn stock, it will
behave better during wet/dry cycles.
Has anyone else had problems with non-PT SYP?
Doug
>pressure
> > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "dnjost" <davidjost@> wrote:
> >
> >> While building my 18' Workskiff, I came across some very nice
> >> treated Southern Yellow Pine that seems just the right stuff for the
> >> chines. I am gluing up a test piece to see how happy it takes to
> >> epoxy. Will file a report this week with an update.
> >>
> >> Has anyone tried this?
> >>
> >> David Jost
> >> "working between the raindrops of Kyle"
>
David,
I work with pressure treated wood fairly often. I have noticed that it
is usually pretty saturated with liquid solution. I suspect this is why
it shouldn't be painted for the first year. It is likely that epoxy
would blister or delaminate. It is also quite dense. It hefts about
double the weight of standard CDX of the same dimension.
Chris
dnjost wrote:
I work with pressure treated wood fairly often. I have noticed that it
is usually pretty saturated with liquid solution. I suspect this is why
it shouldn't be painted for the first year. It is likely that epoxy
would blister or delaminate. It is also quite dense. It hefts about
double the weight of standard CDX of the same dimension.
Chris
dnjost wrote:
> Thanks to all for your thoughts. I have located 16' clear 5/4 SYP
> boards no more than 30 miles from home. They also stock AB Marine Ply.
> at $60 per sheet for 1/2". No need to risk playing with the pressure
> treated stuff or using ACX for the bottom, rot should not be such an
> issue now.
>
> David Jost
>
>
>
>
Thanks to all for your thoughts. I have located 16' clear 5/4 SYP
boards no more than 30 miles from home. They also stock AB Marine Ply.
at $60 per sheet for 1/2". No need to risk playing with the pressure
treated stuff or using ACX for the bottom, rot should not be such an
issue now.
David Jost
boards no more than 30 miles from home. They also stock AB Marine Ply.
at $60 per sheet for 1/2". No need to risk playing with the pressure
treated stuff or using ACX for the bottom, rot should not be such an
issue now.
David Jost
Down here in Atlanta better than half the available 2x stock is SYP.
You might talk to your local Lowe's or Home Depot and see if they can
order what you need.
Paul H.
You might talk to your local Lowe's or Home Depot and see if they can
order what you need.
Paul H.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "dnjost" <davidjost@...> wrote:
>
> The test so far is positive. I have a real good glue bond between
to
> overlapped 8' 1.5 x 1.5" strips. side to side motion cannot break
the
> bond. I will develop a torsion test to see if somehow I can get
the
> glue to break with maximum torque applied vertically to the glue
line.
> I can see the Mythbusters folks having some fun with this.
>
> The caveat about painting is probably true, but I bet if I epoxy
the
> surfaces throroughly I can then paint over it. However, after all
that
> work I would probably be better off just locating some southern
yellow
> pine that is untreated. It is not available at my local central
> Massachusetts lumber yards. For what it's worth my Pointy Skiff
with
> external chines made out of common spf boards with good ply is
going on
> it's 25th year with only a couple of rot spots showing up in the
past
> few years.
>
> David Jost
>
The test so far is positive. I have a real good glue bond between to
overlapped 8' 1.5 x 1.5" strips. side to side motion cannot break the
bond. I will develop a torsion test to see if somehow I can get the
glue to break with maximum torque applied vertically to the glue line.
I can see the Mythbusters folks having some fun with this.
The caveat about painting is probably true, but I bet if I epoxy the
surfaces throroughly I can then paint over it. However, after all that
work I would probably be better off just locating some southern yellow
pine that is untreated. It is not available at my local central
Massachusetts lumber yards. For what it's worth my Pointy Skiff with
external chines made out of common spf boards with good ply is going on
it's 25th year with only a couple of rot spots showing up in the past
few years.
David Jost
overlapped 8' 1.5 x 1.5" strips. side to side motion cannot break the
bond. I will develop a torsion test to see if somehow I can get the
glue to break with maximum torque applied vertically to the glue line.
I can see the Mythbusters folks having some fun with this.
The caveat about painting is probably true, but I bet if I epoxy the
surfaces throroughly I can then paint over it. However, after all that
work I would probably be better off just locating some southern yellow
pine that is untreated. It is not available at my local central
Massachusetts lumber yards. For what it's worth my Pointy Skiff with
external chines made out of common spf boards with good ply is going on
it's 25th year with only a couple of rot spots showing up in the past
few years.
David Jost
I don't remember where I saw it, but someone mentioned in one of the
boat building groups in the past that there were also problems with
PT and epoxy as well as a few other glues. The chemicals used to
pickle the wood interfere with the chemical bonding.
Paul H
boat building groups in the past that there were also problems with
PT and epoxy as well as a few other glues. The chemicals used to
pickle the wood interfere with the chemical bonding.
Paul H
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Crockett <pcrockett@...> wrote:
>
> Also, I have some recollection of reading somewhere that pressure
> treating weakens the wood. Don't know how critical strength is for
the
> chine log for the Workskiff, but it might be a consideration. Of
course,
> weakened yellow pine may be stronger than ordinary SPF (usually S,
in my
> experience), so it may not be an issue.
>
> Patrick
>
> Jon & Wanda(Tink) wrote:
> > The chemicals in PT now react with all fasteners except SS and
ceramic
> > coated deck screws. It is not recomended to paint PT lumber
untill it
> > has seasond and weathered for a year. Personaly I wouldn't use it
> > anywhere in a boat.
> >
> > Jon
> >
> > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "dnjost" <davidjost@> wrote:
> >
> >> While building my 18' Workskiff, I came across some very nice
pressure
> >> treated Southern Yellow Pine that seems just the right stuff for
the
> >> chines. I am gluing up a test piece to see how happy it takes to
> >> epoxy. Will file a report this week with an update.
> >>
> >> Has anyone tried this?
> >>
> >> David Jost
> >> "working between the raindrops of Kyle"
>
Also, I have some recollection of reading somewhere that pressure
treating weakens the wood. Don't know how critical strength is for the
chine log for the Workskiff, but it might be a consideration. Of course,
weakened yellow pine may be stronger than ordinary SPF (usually S, in my
experience), so it may not be an issue.
Patrick
Jon & Wanda(Tink) wrote:
treating weakens the wood. Don't know how critical strength is for the
chine log for the Workskiff, but it might be a consideration. Of course,
weakened yellow pine may be stronger than ordinary SPF (usually S, in my
experience), so it may not be an issue.
Patrick
Jon & Wanda(Tink) wrote:
> The chemicals in PT now react with all fasteners except SS and ceramic
> coated deck screws. It is not recomended to paint PT lumber untill it
> has seasond and weathered for a year. Personaly I wouldn't use it
> anywhere in a boat.
>
> Jon
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "dnjost" <davidjost@...> wrote:
>
>> While building my 18' Workskiff, I came across some very nice pressure
>> treated Southern Yellow Pine that seems just the right stuff for the
>> chines. I am gluing up a test piece to see how happy it takes to
>> epoxy. Will file a report this week with an update.
>>
>> Has anyone tried this?
>>
>> David Jost
>> "working between the raindrops of Kyle"
The chemicals in PT now react with all fasteners except SS and ceramic
coated deck screws. It is not recomended to paint PT lumber untill it
has seasond and weathered for a year. Personaly I wouldn't use it
anywhere in a boat.
Jon
coated deck screws. It is not recomended to paint PT lumber untill it
has seasond and weathered for a year. Personaly I wouldn't use it
anywhere in a boat.
Jon
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "dnjost" <davidjost@...> wrote:
>
> While building my 18' Workskiff, I came across some very nice pressure
> treated Southern Yellow Pine that seems just the right stuff for the
> chines. I am gluing up a test piece to see how happy it takes to
> epoxy. Will file a report this week with an update.
>
> Has anyone tried this?
>
> David Jost
> "working between the raindrops of Kyle"
>
While building my 18' Workskiff, I came across some very nice pressure
treated Southern Yellow Pine that seems just the right stuff for the
chines. I am gluing up a test piece to see how happy it takes to
epoxy. Will file a report this week with an update.
Has anyone tried this?
David Jost
"working between the raindrops of Kyle"
treated Southern Yellow Pine that seems just the right stuff for the
chines. I am gluing up a test piece to see how happy it takes to
epoxy. Will file a report this week with an update.
Has anyone tried this?
David Jost
"working between the raindrops of Kyle"