Re: Cartopper gunwale (gunn'l) ideas please
I used 3/8" (9mm) strips and spacers, which I think worked out really
well, so I would imagine, proportionally, 1/2" would work well with
the car topper.
Cheers, Brian
well, so I would imagine, proportionally, 1/2" would work well with
the car topper.
Cheers, Brian
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "andrew_kieren" <a.c.l.yen@...> wrote:
>
> Great! thanks there are some really good ideas here.
>
> Now what about the ideal dimensions of a gunwale for a cartopper?
>
> Bill's post suggests to me 1/2" by 1 1/2" strips inside and out. Does
> that become 1/2" plus 1/2" spacer inside and 1/2" outside? That would
> be a total of 1 3/4" including the 1/4" ply side.
>
> Regards,
>
> Andrew
>
Great! thanks there are some really good ideas here.
Now what about the ideal dimensions of a gunwale for a cartopper?
Bill's post suggests to me 1/2" by 1 1/2" strips inside and out. Does
that become 1/2" plus 1/2" spacer inside and 1/2" outside? That would
be a total of 1 3/4" including the 1/4" ply side.
Regards,
Andrew
Now what about the ideal dimensions of a gunwale for a cartopper?
Bill's post suggests to me 1/2" by 1 1/2" strips inside and out. Does
that become 1/2" plus 1/2" spacer inside and 1/2" outside? That would
be a total of 1 3/4" including the 1/4" ply side.
Regards,
Andrew
One other (maybe obvious) trick is to take the time to lay out the
spacers around any other things that are or will be on the gunwales.
Ribs, oarlocks, thwarts, etc. can foul things up. It is also a good
idea to work both sides the same way - both aft, forward, or forward, aft.
spacers around any other things that are or will be on the gunwales.
Ribs, oarlocks, thwarts, etc. can foul things up. It is also a good
idea to work both sides the same way - both aft, forward, or forward, aft.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, ".Randy Powell" <rpspiritwaters@...> wrote:
>
> Solid wood and spacers look very nice and offer lots of advantages.
The spacers look great if they have a concave profile on the ends. To
do this start with a block of wood 1/2" taller than your finished
spacer size and about 1 1/2'' thick and 4 or 5 " long. Cut a slot in
the bottom so the spacer just �passes through, then bore a3/8" hole
from the top down about 1/2'' in from the end. Cut your spacer strips
to a size easy to handle about 24" long. Clamp the block to your drill
press lining up the hole with the 3/8" Forcener bit in the chuck. Slid
the strip in and drill down near the end to create the concave end,
push the strip through�about 11/2' to 3" and drill again, and out pops
a nice unit with 2 concave ends, repeat many times. Make up some
clamps from�11/2" to 3" black plastic plumping pipe cut into 1" pieces
with a slot cut through them length wise so you can squeeze them over
the hull and gunwales. Different sized cuts in clamps allow for
> different clamping pressure, have fun
> Randy�
>
>
Solid wood and spacers look very nice and offer lots of advantages. The spacers look great if they have a concave profile on the ends. To do this start with a block of wood 1/2" taller than your finished spacer size and about 1 1/2'' thick and 4 or 5 " long. Cut a slot in the bottom so the spacer just passes through, then bore a3/8" hole from the top down about 1/2'' in from the end. Cut your spacer strips to a size easy to handle about 24" long. Clamp the block to your drill press lining up the hole with the 3/8" Forcener bit in the chuck. Slid the strip in and drill down near the end to create the concave end, push the strip through about 11/2' to 3" and drill again, and out pops a nice unit with 2 concave ends, repeat many times. Make up some clamps from 11/2" to 3" black plastic plumping pipe cut into 1" pieces with a slot cut through them length wise so you can squeeze them over the hull and gunwales. Different sized cuts in clamps allow for
different clamping pressure, have fun
Randy
________________________________
From: andrew_kieren <a.c.l.yen@...>
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 5, 2008 9:04:44 AM
Subject: [bolger] Cartopper gunwale (gunn'l) ideas please
My Bolger cartopper project is comming along well with the centreboard
case about to go in, the mast step and partner glued and it is all
looking "nautical".
I am about to look at the gunwales and wonder what the alternatives
are.
1. External strip only or internal and external gunwale strips,
2. tops planed level or tops planed perpendicular to the sides they are
fixed to or semicircular cross sections
3. those fancy looking internal gunwales that have the spacers and gaps
so that you can tip the water out of the boat easily
4. single pieces of straight grained wood or multiple layers of thin
ply built up with epoxy
I would appreciate any wisdom and pros and cons from the group.
Andrew
P.S. I haven't got around to posting photos yet, but I will.
__________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now at
http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
different clamping pressure, have fun
Randy
________________________________
From: andrew_kieren <a.c.l.yen@...>
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 5, 2008 9:04:44 AM
Subject: [bolger] Cartopper gunwale (gunn'l) ideas please
My Bolger cartopper project is comming along well with the centreboard
case about to go in, the mast step and partner glued and it is all
looking "nautical".
I am about to look at the gunwales and wonder what the alternatives
are.
1. External strip only or internal and external gunwale strips,
2. tops planed level or tops planed perpendicular to the sides they are
fixed to or semicircular cross sections
3. those fancy looking internal gunwales that have the spacers and gaps
so that you can tip the water out of the boat easily
4. single pieces of straight grained wood or multiple layers of thin
ply built up with epoxy
I would appreciate any wisdom and pros and cons from the group.
Andrew
P.S. I haven't got around to posting photos yet, but I will.
__________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now at
http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
There's another aspect to this here operation and that's required
space/available space. I'm always building one that's just a little
too big for my facilities and therefore am addicted to portable buzz
saws. Don't they eat up some batteries, though?
Dave
space/available space. I'm always building one that's just a little
too big for my facilities and therefore am addicted to portable buzz
saws. Don't they eat up some batteries, though?
Dave
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, welshman@... wrote:
>
> I think this is more a personal preference thing Bruce. I am blessed
with a large
> and very well equipped boatshop and if I am going to rip anything
for finish work
> then it will be on the table saw.
>
> That being said many don't have a full sized stationary pro table
saw table saw and
> a good skill saw can do a lot with guides and a mashita blade.
>
> HJ
>
>
> Run a boat-length 2x4 through the table saw
> >
> > Much easier to rip a long 2x using a ripping guide on a portable
circular saw.
> >
> >
> >http://www.hallman.org/roar/Ripping.jpg
> >http://www.arro.ie/32443.jpg
> >
http://www.plumbersurplus.com/images/prod/6/Skil-Power-Tools-95100-rw-94877-160482.jpg
> >http://ace.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pACE2-984037reg.jpg
> >
> >
> >
> > I think I first learned about this trick from Dyanmite Payson,
> > bringing the tool to the wood is easier than bringing the wood to the
> > tool.
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging
dead horses
> > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred'
posts
> > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978)
> > 282-1349
> > - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Yahoo! Groups
> > Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
I do own and use a table saw, but I tend to use more for precision
angle cross cuts, in the mode advocated by Fred Bingham (with his
"SLAT", sliding auxiliary table).
http://books.google.com/books?id=W3ttLw5z9ywC&pg=PA81&lpg=PA81&dq=sliding+auxiliary+table&source=web&ots=QcelNzs1qT&sig=P4VriDDCSLQusYu82MT2ERq11xI&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=2&ct=result
angle cross cuts, in the mode advocated by Fred Bingham (with his
"SLAT", sliding auxiliary table).
http://books.google.com/books?id=W3ttLw5z9ywC&pg=PA81&lpg=PA81&dq=sliding+auxiliary+table&source=web&ots=QcelNzs1qT&sig=P4VriDDCSLQusYu82MT2ERq11xI&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=2&ct=result
I think this is more a personal preference thing Bruce. I am blessed with a large
and very well equipped boatshop and if I am going to rip anything for finish work
then it will be on the table saw.
That being said many don't have a full sized stationary pro table saw table saw and
a good skill saw can do a lot with guides and a mashita blade.
HJ
Run a boat-length 2x4 through the table saw
and very well equipped boatshop and if I am going to rip anything for finish work
then it will be on the table saw.
That being said many don't have a full sized stationary pro table saw table saw and
a good skill saw can do a lot with guides and a mashita blade.
HJ
Run a boat-length 2x4 through the table saw
>
> Much easier to rip a long 2x using a ripping guide on a portable circular saw.
>
>
>http://www.hallman.org/roar/Ripping.jpg
>http://www.arro.ie/32443.jpg
>http://www.plumbersurplus.com/images/prod/6/Skil-Power-Tools-95100-rw-94877-160482.jpg
>http://ace.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pACE2-984037reg.jpg
>
>
>
> I think I first learned about this trick from Dyanmite Payson,
> bringing the tool to the wood is easier than bringing the wood to the
> tool.
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978)
> 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups
> Links
>
>
>
>
If you don't have a table saw or a big enough space to rip an 8 ft piece of
wood, you can obtain good results with a rip fence attached to a skil saw.
You can also make up a jig with 2 levels-one to hold the work and the other
to guide the base of the skil saw. This will enable you to make several 7
to 1 cuts accurately and quickly.
I find that a table saw is not particularly useful in boat building,
primarily because so many boat pieces are big, floppy, unwieldy, and often
heavy. Running work like this over a table saw, particularly in confined
spaces scares me. I am much more comfortable using hand tools on stationary
work which is stable and supported by a pair of saw horses. In addition,
good quality power hand tools (my 'skil saw' is a Porter Cable worm drive)
cost a fraction of the cost of mediocre stationary tools, and I think that
the hand tool alternative is the best for most folks. Now if you have a 2000
square foot shop and a large budget for stationary tools, my objections lose
much of their logic.
JohnT
_____
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Kathy Kreamer
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 10:33 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [bolger] Cartopper gunwale (gunn'l) ideas please
FWIW, etc.
Plywood is not real good for rub rails because of exposed end grain. Run a
boat-length 2x4 through the table saw to get 3/8" or 1/2" strips, 1-1/2"
wide. And maybe do a seventh piece, to split into square-section battens to
cap the raw edges of the plywood sides. For the rub rails, laminate 3
layers, on the outside. Later, add a bit of rail on the inside where you
want to put oarlocks. The rail tops can be perpendicular to the sides, but
making at least a slight slope to the outside.
Make a bunch of clamps from 6" plywood squares & shims. Clamp it all up at
once, and use small brads to prevent the strips from slipping. After six
hours, pull out the brads that show on the outside. Grind everything smooth
and round the corners. On pointy boats, dub off the bow to cover with a
false stem piece. It goes together pretty quick once you get going.
-Bill
_____
From: bolger@yahoogroups. <mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com> com
[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups. <mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com> com] On Behalf
Of
andrew_kieren
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 9:05 AM
To: bolger@yahoogroups. <mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com> com
Subject: [bolger] Cartopper gunwale (gunn'l) ideas please
My Bolger cartopper project is comming along well with the centreboard
case about to go in, the mast step and partner glued and it is all
looking "nautical".
I am about to look at the gunwales and wonder what the alternatives
are.
1. External strip only or internal and external gunwale strips,
2. tops planed level or tops planed perpendicular to the sides they are
fixed to or semicircular cross sections
3. those fancy looking internal gunwales that have the spacers and gaps
so that you can tip the water out of the boat easily
4. single pieces of straight grained wood or multiple layers of thin
ply built up with epoxy
I would appreciate any wisdom and pros and cons from the group.
Andrew
P.S. I haven't got around to posting photos yet, but I will.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
wood, you can obtain good results with a rip fence attached to a skil saw.
You can also make up a jig with 2 levels-one to hold the work and the other
to guide the base of the skil saw. This will enable you to make several 7
to 1 cuts accurately and quickly.
I find that a table saw is not particularly useful in boat building,
primarily because so many boat pieces are big, floppy, unwieldy, and often
heavy. Running work like this over a table saw, particularly in confined
spaces scares me. I am much more comfortable using hand tools on stationary
work which is stable and supported by a pair of saw horses. In addition,
good quality power hand tools (my 'skil saw' is a Porter Cable worm drive)
cost a fraction of the cost of mediocre stationary tools, and I think that
the hand tool alternative is the best for most folks. Now if you have a 2000
square foot shop and a large budget for stationary tools, my objections lose
much of their logic.
JohnT
_____
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Kathy Kreamer
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 10:33 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [bolger] Cartopper gunwale (gunn'l) ideas please
FWIW, etc.
Plywood is not real good for rub rails because of exposed end grain. Run a
boat-length 2x4 through the table saw to get 3/8" or 1/2" strips, 1-1/2"
wide. And maybe do a seventh piece, to split into square-section battens to
cap the raw edges of the plywood sides. For the rub rails, laminate 3
layers, on the outside. Later, add a bit of rail on the inside where you
want to put oarlocks. The rail tops can be perpendicular to the sides, but
making at least a slight slope to the outside.
Make a bunch of clamps from 6" plywood squares & shims. Clamp it all up at
once, and use small brads to prevent the strips from slipping. After six
hours, pull out the brads that show on the outside. Grind everything smooth
and round the corners. On pointy boats, dub off the bow to cover with a
false stem piece. It goes together pretty quick once you get going.
-Bill
_____
From: bolger@yahoogroups. <mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com> com
[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups. <mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com> com] On Behalf
Of
andrew_kieren
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 9:05 AM
To: bolger@yahoogroups. <mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com> com
Subject: [bolger] Cartopper gunwale (gunn'l) ideas please
My Bolger cartopper project is comming along well with the centreboard
case about to go in, the mast step and partner glued and it is all
looking "nautical".
I am about to look at the gunwales and wonder what the alternatives
are.
1. External strip only or internal and external gunwale strips,
2. tops planed level or tops planed perpendicular to the sides they are
fixed to or semicircular cross sections
3. those fancy looking internal gunwales that have the spacers and gaps
so that you can tip the water out of the boat easily
4. single pieces of straight grained wood or multiple layers of thin
ply built up with epoxy
I would appreciate any wisdom and pros and cons from the group.
Andrew
P.S. I haven't got around to posting photos yet, but I will.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
If you are actually going to cartop the boat, then planing/sanding the
gunwales level across the boat would be a good idea as they would then
have a broader surface in contact with the roof rack (or if you
transport it right-side-up, would be less likely to chafe the straps)
and would be less likely to get dinged up during transport.
I really like the looks of gunwales with an outside strip, hull,
inside spacers and then an inside strip. It doesn't take a lot more
time, adds some strength, and adds a lot to the looks of the boat. The
spaces also are useful to tie stuff down, rig cargo nets, and whatnot.
I would also suggest solid wood as opposed to plywood.
I just finished a little one-man decked double paddle canoe in spruce
and used the spaced gunwales. Weather and moving house has prevented
me from the first splash, but a couple of neighbors have seen her, and
the first and last comments are always the gunwales...
Cheers, Brian
gunwales level across the boat would be a good idea as they would then
have a broader surface in contact with the roof rack (or if you
transport it right-side-up, would be less likely to chafe the straps)
and would be less likely to get dinged up during transport.
I really like the looks of gunwales with an outside strip, hull,
inside spacers and then an inside strip. It doesn't take a lot more
time, adds some strength, and adds a lot to the looks of the boat. The
spaces also are useful to tie stuff down, rig cargo nets, and whatnot.
I would also suggest solid wood as opposed to plywood.
I just finished a little one-man decked double paddle canoe in spruce
and used the spaced gunwales. Weather and moving house has prevented
me from the first splash, but a couple of neighbors have seen her, and
the first and last comments are always the gunwales...
Cheers, Brian
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "andrew_kieren" <a.c.l.yen@...> wrote:
>
> My Bolger cartopper project is comming along well with the centreboard
> case about to go in, the mast step and partner glued and it is all
> looking "nautical".
>
> I am about to look at the gunwales and wonder what the alternatives
> are.
> 1. External strip only or internal and external gunwale strips,
> 2. tops planed level or tops planed perpendicular to the sides they are
> fixed to or semicircular cross sections
> 3. those fancy looking internal gunwales that have the spacers and gaps
> so that you can tip the water out of the boat easily
> 4. single pieces of straight grained wood or multiple layers of thin
> ply built up with epoxy
>
> I would appreciate any wisdom and pros and cons from the group.
>
> Andrew
>
> P.S. I haven't got around to posting photos yet, but I will.
>
> Run a boat-length 2x4 through the table sawMuch easier to rip a long 2x using a ripping guide on a portable circular saw.
http://www.hallman.org/roar/Ripping.jpg
http://www.arro.ie/32443.jpg
http://www.plumbersurplus.com/images/prod/6/Skil-Power-Tools-95100-rw-94877-160482.jpg
http://ace.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pACE2-984037reg.jpg
I think I first learned about this trick from Dyanmite Payson,
bringing the tool to the wood is easier than bringing the wood to the
tool.
FWIW, etc.
Plywood is not real good for rub rails because of exposed end grain. Run a
boat-length 2x4 through the table saw to get 3/8" or 1/2" strips, 1-1/2"
wide. And maybe do a seventh piece, to split into square-section battens to
cap the raw edges of the plywood sides. For the rub rails, laminate 3
layers, on the outside. Later, add a bit of rail on the inside where you
want to put oarlocks. The rail tops can be perpendicular to the sides, but
making at least a slight slope to the outside.
Make a bunch of clamps from 6" plywood squares & shims. Clamp it all up at
once, and use small brads to prevent the strips from slipping. After six
hours, pull out the brads that show on the outside. Grind everything smooth
and round the corners. On pointy boats, dub off the bow to cover with a
false stem piece. It goes together pretty quick once you get going.
-Bill
_____
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
andrew_kieren
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 9:05 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Cartopper gunwale (gunn'l) ideas please
My Bolger cartopper project is comming along well with the centreboard
case about to go in, the mast step and partner glued and it is all
looking "nautical".
I am about to look at the gunwales and wonder what the alternatives
are.
1. External strip only or internal and external gunwale strips,
2. tops planed level or tops planed perpendicular to the sides they are
fixed to or semicircular cross sections
3. those fancy looking internal gunwales that have the spacers and gaps
so that you can tip the water out of the boat easily
4. single pieces of straight grained wood or multiple layers of thin
ply built up with epoxy
I would appreciate any wisdom and pros and cons from the group.
Andrew
P.S. I haven't got around to posting photos yet, but I will.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Plywood is not real good for rub rails because of exposed end grain. Run a
boat-length 2x4 through the table saw to get 3/8" or 1/2" strips, 1-1/2"
wide. And maybe do a seventh piece, to split into square-section battens to
cap the raw edges of the plywood sides. For the rub rails, laminate 3
layers, on the outside. Later, add a bit of rail on the inside where you
want to put oarlocks. The rail tops can be perpendicular to the sides, but
making at least a slight slope to the outside.
Make a bunch of clamps from 6" plywood squares & shims. Clamp it all up at
once, and use small brads to prevent the strips from slipping. After six
hours, pull out the brads that show on the outside. Grind everything smooth
and round the corners. On pointy boats, dub off the bow to cover with a
false stem piece. It goes together pretty quick once you get going.
-Bill
_____
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
andrew_kieren
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 9:05 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Cartopper gunwale (gunn'l) ideas please
My Bolger cartopper project is comming along well with the centreboard
case about to go in, the mast step and partner glued and it is all
looking "nautical".
I am about to look at the gunwales and wonder what the alternatives
are.
1. External strip only or internal and external gunwale strips,
2. tops planed level or tops planed perpendicular to the sides they are
fixed to or semicircular cross sections
3. those fancy looking internal gunwales that have the spacers and gaps
so that you can tip the water out of the boat easily
4. single pieces of straight grained wood or multiple layers of thin
ply built up with epoxy
I would appreciate any wisdom and pros and cons from the group.
Andrew
P.S. I haven't got around to posting photos yet, but I will.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
My Bolger cartopper project is comming along well with the centreboard
case about to go in, the mast step and partner glued and it is all
looking "nautical".
I am about to look at the gunwales and wonder what the alternatives
are.
1. External strip only or internal and external gunwale strips,
2. tops planed level or tops planed perpendicular to the sides they are
fixed to or semicircular cross sections
3. those fancy looking internal gunwales that have the spacers and gaps
so that you can tip the water out of the boat easily
4. single pieces of straight grained wood or multiple layers of thin
ply built up with epoxy
I would appreciate any wisdom and pros and cons from the group.
Andrew
P.S. I haven't got around to posting photos yet, but I will.
case about to go in, the mast step and partner glued and it is all
looking "nautical".
I am about to look at the gunwales and wonder what the alternatives
are.
1. External strip only or internal and external gunwale strips,
2. tops planed level or tops planed perpendicular to the sides they are
fixed to or semicircular cross sections
3. those fancy looking internal gunwales that have the spacers and gaps
so that you can tip the water out of the boat easily
4. single pieces of straight grained wood or multiple layers of thin
ply built up with epoxy
I would appreciate any wisdom and pros and cons from the group.
Andrew
P.S. I haven't got around to posting photos yet, but I will.