Re: synthetic fabric hulls, was: Plywood Alternatives
Pine tar [:-/]
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jon & Wanda(Tink)" <windyjon@...> wrote:
>
> Resistant labeling by fed standards has to do with how much vaper can
> pass through in a given time at a given temp. The spacifics I no
longer
> have. With glues it has to do with how long it holds up when
submerged.
> It is not that the products will not work for what you want them for
in
> a trailerd boat but rather if it is a good practice to teach to others
> that may have a different use like in the water all season. Building
> for the later insures the former.
>
> Jon
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "mark hamill" mhamill1@ wrote:
> >
> > Yes I also read the Tyvek info sheets and it is noted as "...water
> > resistant..." as well. So what would the difference be? The
> descriptors
> > for the two products sound exactly the same.
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Resistant labeling by fed standards has to do with how much vaper can
pass through in a given time at a given temp. The spacifics I no longer
have. With glues it has to do with how long it holds up when submerged.
It is not that the products will not work for what you want them for in
a trailerd boat but rather if it is a good practice to teach to others
that may have a different use like in the water all season. Building
for the later insures the former.
Jon
pass through in a given time at a given temp. The spacifics I no longer
have. With glues it has to do with how long it holds up when submerged.
It is not that the products will not work for what you want them for in
a trailerd boat but rather if it is a good practice to teach to others
that may have a different use like in the water all season. Building
for the later insures the former.
Jon
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "mark hamill" <mhamill1@...> wrote:
>
> Yes I also read the Tyvek info sheets and it is noted as "...water
> resistant..." as well. So what would the difference be? The
descriptors
> for the two products sound exactly the same.
Yes I also read the Tyvek info sheets and it is noted as "...water
resistant..." as well. So what would the difference be? The descriptors
for the two products sound exactly the same.
resistant..." as well. So what would the difference be? The descriptors
for the two products sound exactly the same.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jon & Wanda(Tink)" <windyjon@...> wrote:
>
> Read a little closer WATER RESISTANT is not water proof. If it is
going
> to be sitting in the water it needs to be water proof.
>
> Jon
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "mark hamill" <mhamill1@> wrote:
> >
> > I saw this on Holmes on Homes today. Grace Triflex
> >http://www.na.graceconstruction.com/product.cfm?mode=a&did=8&id=166
> It
> > also UV stabized>
> >
>
Read a little closer WATER RESISTANT is not water proof. If it is going
to be sitting in the water it needs to be water proof.
Jon
to be sitting in the water it needs to be water proof.
Jon
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "mark hamill" <mhamill1@...> wrote:
>
> I saw this on Holmes on Homes today. Grace Triflex
>http://www.na.graceconstruction.com/product.cfm?mode=a&did=8&id=166
It
> also UV stabized>
>
I saw this on Holmes on Homes today. Grace Triflex
http://www.na.graceconstruction.com/product.cfm?mode=a&did=8&id=166It
also UV stabized>
http://www.na.graceconstruction.com/product.cfm?mode=a&did=8&id=166It
also UV stabized>
Jamie,
She looks like the mods were a success. Too bad she was mislaid, eh?
Cheers,
David G
"Everyone is a genius at least once a year. The real geniuses simply
have their bright ideas closer together" -- Georg Christof Lichtenberg
She looks like the mods were a success. Too bad she was mislaid, eh?
Cheers,
David G
"Everyone is a genius at least once a year. The real geniuses simply
have their bright ideas closer together" -- Georg Christof Lichtenberg
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jamie Orr" <jas_orr@...> wrote:
>
> Here's another successful experiment with 1/8th ply with 6 oz glass and
> epoxy on the outside, epoxy coating on the inside. We never found out
> how long-lived she might be as I traded her to Chris and she was lost
> while towing in bad weather. Go tohttp://www.chebacco.com/click on
> new articles, then on issue 19 (October 2006) and look for "Tartlet, a
> Chebacco-sized tender"
>
> Jamie
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@> wrote:
> >
> > On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 8:43 AM, Roger Padvorac <roger@> wrote:
> >
> > > especially useful in boats where portability and light weight are
> > > priorities.
> >
> > I am a strong personal believer in this virtue. There is a middle
> > ground between fabric skin and plywood too. For instance, I consider
> > my experiment with my second Tortoise of 1/8" luaun, sheathed both
> > sides in 6 ounce epoxy and glass a big success. The ply-glass skin is
> > thin - being light and flexible. The deep arch of the bottom rocker
> > gives powerful 'shell effect' strength too. The light weight is a
> > great advantage; well worth the compromises in my opinion..
> >
>
Here's another successful experiment with 1/8th ply with 6 oz glass and
epoxy on the outside, epoxy coating on the inside. We never found out
how long-lived she might be as I traded her to Chris and she was lost
while towing in bad weather. Go tohttp://www.chebacco.com/click on
new articles, then on issue 19 (October 2006) and look for "Tartlet, a
Chebacco-sized tender"
Jamie
epoxy on the outside, epoxy coating on the inside. We never found out
how long-lived she might be as I traded her to Chris and she was lost
while towing in bad weather. Go tohttp://www.chebacco.com/click on
new articles, then on issue 19 (October 2006) and look for "Tartlet, a
Chebacco-sized tender"
Jamie
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...> wrote:
>
> On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 8:43 AM, Roger Padvorac <roger@...> wrote:
>
> > especially useful in boats where portability and light weight are
> > priorities.
>
> I am a strong personal believer in this virtue. There is a middle
> ground between fabric skin and plywood too. For instance, I consider
> my experiment with my second Tortoise of 1/8" luaun, sheathed both
> sides in 6 ounce epoxy and glass a big success. The ply-glass skin is
> thin - being light and flexible. The deep arch of the bottom rocker
> gives powerful 'shell effect' strength too. The light weight is a
> great advantage; well worth the compromises in my opinion..
>
Great info Rodger, have you built a skin on frame boat and if so how about some picts
Thanks Randy
________________________________
From: Roger Padvorac <roger@...>
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, December 8, 2008 11:43:30 AM
Subject: [bolger] synthetic fabric hulls, was: Plywood Alternatives
This won't work in boat designs where the plywood is actually the frame, but could be adapted to boats where there is an internal frame and the plywood is just used to keep the water outside of the boat. Fabric hulls are especially useful in boats where portability and light weight are priorities.
The combination of a fabric hull (made from a high tech, rip resistant fabric) and light frame makes for a comparatively light boat and the hull is probably harder to puncture on a rock than a 1/4 inch plywood hull (unless the plywood is heavily coated with fiber reinforced plastic and then its not light anymore). My feeling is that a fabric hull is more resistant to being holed by a rock than even thicker plywood than that, but I don't know of any comparative testing to verify this. An advantage of the fabric hull over a plywood hull is that it isn't as stiff or brittle as plywood and as it stretches from an impact, it will absorb some of the shock that helps crunch a hole into a plywood hull.
At this link are pictures and descriptions of the Wooden Boat Center in Seattle Washington making a Umiak (its similar to a large canoe) with a synthetic fabric hull, and it includes descriptions of the materials used and how they assembled the boat. The Umiak made at the Wooden Boat Center 21 feet long with a 6 foot beam. Umiaks can be over 30 feet long, so fabric hulls aren't just for small boats.
www.cwb.org/ BoatDatabaseUmia kBuild.htm
The hull on this Umiak is made from ballistic nylon, a very strong rip resistant nylon cloth used in the outer layer of bullet proof vests. The Wooden Boat Center describes how they stretched the fabric taut, and then heat set it to further increase fabric tension. They put four coats of a two part polyurethane compound over the fabric.
The expertise for the Umiak project came from Corey Freedman at his skin boat school in Anacortes Washington which teaches techniques for using natural skin and for using synthetic fabric for hulls.
www.skinboats. org
The home page has a picture of people sailing one of these boats, so they aren't just for paddling.
The web site has instructional materials on fabric hulls and offers for sale the materials that are more difficult to locate locally, which for many people is basically everything needed for making fabric hulls.
Sincerely,
Roger
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
__________________________________________________________________
Instant Messaging, free SMS, sharing photos and more... Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger athttp://ca.beta.messenger.yahoo.com/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Thanks Randy
________________________________
From: Roger Padvorac <roger@...>
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, December 8, 2008 11:43:30 AM
Subject: [bolger] synthetic fabric hulls, was: Plywood Alternatives
This won't work in boat designs where the plywood is actually the frame, but could be adapted to boats where there is an internal frame and the plywood is just used to keep the water outside of the boat. Fabric hulls are especially useful in boats where portability and light weight are priorities.
The combination of a fabric hull (made from a high tech, rip resistant fabric) and light frame makes for a comparatively light boat and the hull is probably harder to puncture on a rock than a 1/4 inch plywood hull (unless the plywood is heavily coated with fiber reinforced plastic and then its not light anymore). My feeling is that a fabric hull is more resistant to being holed by a rock than even thicker plywood than that, but I don't know of any comparative testing to verify this. An advantage of the fabric hull over a plywood hull is that it isn't as stiff or brittle as plywood and as it stretches from an impact, it will absorb some of the shock that helps crunch a hole into a plywood hull.
At this link are pictures and descriptions of the Wooden Boat Center in Seattle Washington making a Umiak (its similar to a large canoe) with a synthetic fabric hull, and it includes descriptions of the materials used and how they assembled the boat. The Umiak made at the Wooden Boat Center 21 feet long with a 6 foot beam. Umiaks can be over 30 feet long, so fabric hulls aren't just for small boats.
www.cwb.org/ BoatDatabaseUmia kBuild.htm
The hull on this Umiak is made from ballistic nylon, a very strong rip resistant nylon cloth used in the outer layer of bullet proof vests. The Wooden Boat Center describes how they stretched the fabric taut, and then heat set it to further increase fabric tension. They put four coats of a two part polyurethane compound over the fabric.
The expertise for the Umiak project came from Corey Freedman at his skin boat school in Anacortes Washington which teaches techniques for using natural skin and for using synthetic fabric for hulls.
www.skinboats. org
The home page has a picture of people sailing one of these boats, so they aren't just for paddling.
The web site has instructional materials on fabric hulls and offers for sale the materials that are more difficult to locate locally, which for many people is basically everything needed for making fabric hulls.
Sincerely,
Roger
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
__________________________________________________________________
Instant Messaging, free SMS, sharing photos and more... Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger athttp://ca.beta.messenger.yahoo.com/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Roger
Corey brought an umiak to the Port Townsend fest eight
or nine years ago. This one was covered with green
canvas, as I recall. A bunch of guys took it out for
a few hours, with myself at the helm, and we had a
fantastic sail with much string-pulling and shifting
about for all and sundry.
It had already seen a good deal of use- it was not at
all rigid, and I don't know how much of that was
intended and how much was the product of loosening
with use. You've got to sail one of these things to
get a feeling for the way they snake through the
waves.
Dave
--- Roger Padvorac <roger@...> wrote:
Corey brought an umiak to the Port Townsend fest eight
or nine years ago. This one was covered with green
canvas, as I recall. A bunch of guys took it out for
a few hours, with myself at the helm, and we had a
fantastic sail with much string-pulling and shifting
about for all and sundry.
It had already seen a good deal of use- it was not at
all rigid, and I don't know how much of that was
intended and how much was the product of loosening
with use. You've got to sail one of these things to
get a feeling for the way they snake through the
waves.
Dave
--- Roger Padvorac <roger@...> wrote:
> This won't work in boat designs where the plywood isIt was impossible to get a conversation going, everybody was talking too much. - Yogi Berra
> actually the frame, but could be adapted to boats
> where there is an internal frame and the plywood is
> just used to keep the water outside of the boat.
> Fabric hulls are especially useful in boats where
> portability and light weight are priorities.
>
> The combination of a fabric hull (made from a high
> tech, rip resistant fabric) and light frame makes
> for a comparatively light boat and the hull is
> probably harder to puncture on a rock than a 1/4
> inch plywood hull (unless the plywood is heavily
> coated with fiber reinforced plastic and then its
> not light anymore). My feeling is that a fabric hull
> is more resistant to being holed by a rock than even
> thicker plywood than that, but I don't know of any
> comparative testing to verify this. An advantage of
> the fabric hull over a plywood hull is that it isn't
> as stiff or brittle as plywood and as it stretches
> from an impact, it will absorb some of the shock
> that helps crunch a hole into a plywood hull.
>
> At this link are pictures and descriptions of the
> Wooden Boat Center in Seattle Washington making a
> Umiak (its similar to a large canoe) with a
> synthetic fabric hull, and it includes descriptions
> of the materials used and how they assembled the
> boat. The Umiak made at the Wooden Boat Center 21
> feet long with a 6 foot beam. Umiaks can be over 30
> feet long, so fabric hulls aren't just for small
> boats.
> www.cwb.org/BoatDatabaseUmiakBuild.htm
>
> The hull on this Umiak is made from ballistic nylon,
> a very strong rip resistant nylon cloth used in the
> outer layer of bullet proof vests. The Wooden Boat
> Center describes how they stretched the fabric taut,
> and then heat set it to further increase fabric
> tension. They put four coats of a two part
> polyurethane compound over the fabric.
>
> The expertise for the Umiak project came from Corey
> Freedman at his skin boat school in Anacortes
> Washington which teaches techniques for using
> natural skin and for using synthetic fabric for
> hulls.
> www.skinboats.org
> The home page has a picture of people sailing one of
> these boats, so they aren't just for paddling.
>
> The web site has instructional materials on fabric
> hulls and offers for sale the materials that are
> more difficult to locate locally, which for many
> people is basically everything needed for making
> fabric hulls.
>
> Sincerely,
> Roger
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>
On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 8:43 AM, Roger Padvorac <roger@...> wrote:
ground between fabric skin and plywood too. For instance, I consider
my experiment with my second Tortoise of 1/8" luaun, sheathed both
sides in 6 ounce epoxy and glass a big success. The ply-glass skin is
thin - being light and flexible. The deep arch of the bottom rocker
gives powerful 'shell effect' strength too. The light weight is a
great advantage; well worth the compromises in my opinion..
> especially useful in boats where portability and light weight areI am a strong personal believer in this virtue. There is a middle
> priorities.
ground between fabric skin and plywood too. For instance, I consider
my experiment with my second Tortoise of 1/8" luaun, sheathed both
sides in 6 ounce epoxy and glass a big success. The ply-glass skin is
thin - being light and flexible. The deep arch of the bottom rocker
gives powerful 'shell effect' strength too. The light weight is a
great advantage; well worth the compromises in my opinion..
This won't work in boat designs where the plywood is actually the frame, but could be adapted to boats where there is an internal frame and the plywood is just used to keep the water outside of the boat. Fabric hulls are especially useful in boats where portability and light weight are priorities.
The combination of a fabric hull (made from a high tech, rip resistant fabric) and light frame makes for a comparatively light boat and the hull is probably harder to puncture on a rock than a 1/4 inch plywood hull (unless the plywood is heavily coated with fiber reinforced plastic and then its not light anymore). My feeling is that a fabric hull is more resistant to being holed by a rock than even thicker plywood than that, but I don't know of any comparative testing to verify this. An advantage of the fabric hull over a plywood hull is that it isn't as stiff or brittle as plywood and as it stretches from an impact, it will absorb some of the shock that helps crunch a hole into a plywood hull.
At this link are pictures and descriptions of the Wooden Boat Center in Seattle Washington making a Umiak (its similar to a large canoe) with a synthetic fabric hull, and it includes descriptions of the materials used and how they assembled the boat. The Umiak made at the Wooden Boat Center 21 feet long with a 6 foot beam. Umiaks can be over 30 feet long, so fabric hulls aren't just for small boats.
www.cwb.org/BoatDatabaseUmiakBuild.htm
The hull on this Umiak is made from ballistic nylon, a very strong rip resistant nylon cloth used in the outer layer of bullet proof vests. The Wooden Boat Center describes how they stretched the fabric taut, and then heat set it to further increase fabric tension. They put four coats of a two part polyurethane compound over the fabric.
The expertise for the Umiak project came from Corey Freedman at his skin boat school in Anacortes Washington which teaches techniques for using natural skin and for using synthetic fabric for hulls.
www.skinboats.org
The home page has a picture of people sailing one of these boats, so they aren't just for paddling.
The web site has instructional materials on fabric hulls and offers for sale the materials that are more difficult to locate locally, which for many people is basically everything needed for making fabric hulls.
Sincerely,
Roger
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
The combination of a fabric hull (made from a high tech, rip resistant fabric) and light frame makes for a comparatively light boat and the hull is probably harder to puncture on a rock than a 1/4 inch plywood hull (unless the plywood is heavily coated with fiber reinforced plastic and then its not light anymore). My feeling is that a fabric hull is more resistant to being holed by a rock than even thicker plywood than that, but I don't know of any comparative testing to verify this. An advantage of the fabric hull over a plywood hull is that it isn't as stiff or brittle as plywood and as it stretches from an impact, it will absorb some of the shock that helps crunch a hole into a plywood hull.
At this link are pictures and descriptions of the Wooden Boat Center in Seattle Washington making a Umiak (its similar to a large canoe) with a synthetic fabric hull, and it includes descriptions of the materials used and how they assembled the boat. The Umiak made at the Wooden Boat Center 21 feet long with a 6 foot beam. Umiaks can be over 30 feet long, so fabric hulls aren't just for small boats.
www.cwb.org/BoatDatabaseUmiakBuild.htm
The hull on this Umiak is made from ballistic nylon, a very strong rip resistant nylon cloth used in the outer layer of bullet proof vests. The Wooden Boat Center describes how they stretched the fabric taut, and then heat set it to further increase fabric tension. They put four coats of a two part polyurethane compound over the fabric.
The expertise for the Umiak project came from Corey Freedman at his skin boat school in Anacortes Washington which teaches techniques for using natural skin and for using synthetic fabric for hulls.
www.skinboats.org
The home page has a picture of people sailing one of these boats, so they aren't just for paddling.
The web site has instructional materials on fabric hulls and offers for sale the materials that are more difficult to locate locally, which for many people is basically everything needed for making fabric hulls.
Sincerely,
Roger
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]