Re: POLYESTER
Epoxy is the go, but if you must resort to polyester then the type
without wax sticks very much better. People have reported it
continuing to adhere to the wood substrate for a decade, or more.
However, that may be in regard mainly to dry-sailed boats.
The wax type of poly, for laminating to wood, is all trouble.
Graeme
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "jmbell1" <smallboatdesigner@...>
wrote:
without wax sticks very much better. People have reported it
continuing to adhere to the wood substrate for a decade, or more.
However, that may be in regard mainly to dry-sailed boats.
The wax type of poly, for laminating to wood, is all trouble.
Graeme
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "jmbell1" <smallboatdesigner@...>
wrote:
>a
> By coincidence I was looking at a budget I drew up in 1999 to build
> small Michalak design last night. On the spreadsheet was a sixgallon
> kit from Raka, $188. By way of comparison, that same kit is now$288,
> an increase of ~50% in ten years. I don't know for sure, but I'llmonths. I
> wager over half of that increase was incurred in the last 12
> think we'll be getting a lot of that increase back in the form ofin
> lower pricing later this year. That being said, an increase of $100
> what is a very critical component of your project - the glue -isn't a
> show stopper, IMO. Buy epoxy.
If you are on a tight budget, omitting cloth and resin is OK. Or,
going really old fashion and sheathing the wood with cloth impregnated
with paint actually works too.
going really old fashion and sheathing the wood with cloth impregnated
with paint actually works too.
By coincidence I was looking at a budget I drew up in 1999 to build a
small Michalak design last night. On the spreadsheet was a six gallon
kit from Raka, $188. By way of comparison, that same kit is now $288,
an increase of ~50% in ten years. I don't know for sure, but I'll
wager over half of that increase was incurred in the last 12 months. I
think we'll be getting a lot of that increase back in the form of
lower pricing later this year. That being said, an increase of $100 in
what is a very critical component of your project - the glue - isn't a
show stopper, IMO. Buy epoxy.
small Michalak design last night. On the spreadsheet was a six gallon
kit from Raka, $188. By way of comparison, that same kit is now $288,
an increase of ~50% in ten years. I don't know for sure, but I'll
wager over half of that increase was incurred in the last 12 months. I
think we'll be getting a lot of that increase back in the form of
lower pricing later this year. That being said, an increase of $100 in
what is a very critical component of your project - the glue - isn't a
show stopper, IMO. Buy epoxy.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "jmbell1" <smallboatdesigner@...> wrote:
>
> In my day job, I have to know something about the global market for
> epoxies and the raw materials used to make them.
>
> The last 12 weeks has seen prices for epoxy raw materials collapse,
> driven both by dramatically lower demand as well as lower feedstock
> costs. Some key raw materials have dropped by 40% or more.
>
> If you can wait, you should start to see lower prices at the retail
> level in the next few months. It's going to take a while for this
> sudden drop to filter through the supply chain. If you can't wait,
> then shop it hard and negotiate. Depending on the supplier and the
> size of your business, you might be able to get them to give you a
> discount off list price to get your business.
>
> Bottom line is that prices should be coming down through the first
> half of 2009.
>
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Brian Anderson" <bawrytr@> wrote:
> >
> > Sorry, that should have read "On a boat that small, I would bet the
> > difference between polyester and epoxy resin would not amount to that
> > much money."
> >
> > I would also add that polyester is a poor glue and cannot reliably be
> > used to make fillets, or otherwise join wood.
> >
> > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Brian Anderson" <bawrytr@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Alberto
> > >
> > > Nice photos on your site. The lamb?/goat? looked especially
good. Hope
> > > you enjoyed it.
> > >
> > > Epoxy would be a much better choice on a boat like that, one
that cost
> > > quite a bit to make and that you will be using a while, I would
think.
> > > On a boat that small, I would be the difference between
polyester and
> > > epoxy resin not amount to that much money.
> > >
> > > I would also absolutely not use the USB board on the cabin top, even
> > > if you are going to put fiberglass on one side and seal the
other with
> > > epoxy - it doesn't deal well with water or even humidity,
judging from
> > > the strong back I made last fall that is in an unheated barn
right now
> > > and swelling up with the humidity. It is also much heavier than
the 6
> > > mm plywood you would ordinarily use for that, not that much less
> > > expensive, when you consider you don't need very much wood, and
it is
> > > going to cause problems down the road and then you will have to
> > > replace it with plywood anyway, though you could strip build it or
> > > even use 3/8" pine or spruce tounge-and-groove wainscotting, which
> > > would cost very little.
> > >
> > > Cheers, Brian
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "laciudad2004" <laciudad2004@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Dear Friends
> > > > The price of epoxy has gone to the clouds and I know I can use
for
> > > > fiberglass laminating the polyester resin.
> > > > Some say that the epoxy did not adhere. Could someone help me
with
> > > > this?
> > > > Best regards
> > > > Alberto
> > > > www.derawson.com / fotos.htm
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
In my day job, I have to know something about the global market for
epoxies and the raw materials used to make them.
The last 12 weeks has seen prices for epoxy raw materials collapse,
driven both by dramatically lower demand as well as lower feedstock
costs. Some key raw materials have dropped by 40% or more.
If you can wait, you should start to see lower prices at the retail
level in the next few months. It's going to take a while for this
sudden drop to filter through the supply chain. If you can't wait,
then shop it hard and negotiate. Depending on the supplier and the
size of your business, you might be able to get them to give you a
discount off list price to get your business.
Bottom line is that prices should be coming down through the first
half of 2009.
epoxies and the raw materials used to make them.
The last 12 weeks has seen prices for epoxy raw materials collapse,
driven both by dramatically lower demand as well as lower feedstock
costs. Some key raw materials have dropped by 40% or more.
If you can wait, you should start to see lower prices at the retail
level in the next few months. It's going to take a while for this
sudden drop to filter through the supply chain. If you can't wait,
then shop it hard and negotiate. Depending on the supplier and the
size of your business, you might be able to get them to give you a
discount off list price to get your business.
Bottom line is that prices should be coming down through the first
half of 2009.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Brian Anderson" <bawrytr@...> wrote:
>
> Sorry, that should have read "On a boat that small, I would bet the
> difference between polyester and epoxy resin would not amount to that
> much money."
>
> I would also add that polyester is a poor glue and cannot reliably be
> used to make fillets, or otherwise join wood.
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Brian Anderson" <bawrytr@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Alberto
> >
> > Nice photos on your site. The lamb?/goat? looked especially good. Hope
> > you enjoyed it.
> >
> > Epoxy would be a much better choice on a boat like that, one that cost
> > quite a bit to make and that you will be using a while, I would think.
> > On a boat that small, I would be the difference between polyester and
> > epoxy resin not amount to that much money.
> >
> > I would also absolutely not use the USB board on the cabin top, even
> > if you are going to put fiberglass on one side and seal the other with
> > epoxy - it doesn't deal well with water or even humidity, judging from
> > the strong back I made last fall that is in an unheated barn right now
> > and swelling up with the humidity. It is also much heavier than the 6
> > mm plywood you would ordinarily use for that, not that much less
> > expensive, when you consider you don't need very much wood, and it is
> > going to cause problems down the road and then you will have to
> > replace it with plywood anyway, though you could strip build it or
> > even use 3/8" pine or spruce tounge-and-groove wainscotting, which
> > would cost very little.
> >
> > Cheers, Brian
> >
> >
> >
> > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "laciudad2004" <laciudad2004@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Dear Friends
> > > The price of epoxy has gone to the clouds and I know I can use for
> > > fiberglass laminating the polyester resin.
> > > Some say that the epoxy did not adhere. Could someone help me with
> > > this?
> > > Best regards
> > > Alberto
> > > www.derawson.com / fotos.htm
> > >
> >
>
Sorry, that should have read "On a boat that small, I would bet the
difference between polyester and epoxy resin would not amount to that
much money."
I would also add that polyester is a poor glue and cannot reliably be
used to make fillets, or otherwise join wood.
difference between polyester and epoxy resin would not amount to that
much money."
I would also add that polyester is a poor glue and cannot reliably be
used to make fillets, or otherwise join wood.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Brian Anderson" <bawrytr@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Alberto
>
> Nice photos on your site. The lamb?/goat? looked especially good. Hope
> you enjoyed it.
>
> Epoxy would be a much better choice on a boat like that, one that cost
> quite a bit to make and that you will be using a while, I would think.
> On a boat that small, I would be the difference between polyester and
> epoxy resin not amount to that much money.
>
> I would also absolutely not use the USB board on the cabin top, even
> if you are going to put fiberglass on one side and seal the other with
> epoxy - it doesn't deal well with water or even humidity, judging from
> the strong back I made last fall that is in an unheated barn right now
> and swelling up with the humidity. It is also much heavier than the 6
> mm plywood you would ordinarily use for that, not that much less
> expensive, when you consider you don't need very much wood, and it is
> going to cause problems down the road and then you will have to
> replace it with plywood anyway, though you could strip build it or
> even use 3/8" pine or spruce tounge-and-groove wainscotting, which
> would cost very little.
>
> Cheers, Brian
>
>
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "laciudad2004" <laciudad2004@> wrote:
> >
> > Dear Friends
> > The price of epoxy has gone to the clouds and I know I can use for
> > fiberglass laminating the polyester resin.
> > Some say that the epoxy did not adhere. Could someone help me with
> > this?
> > Best regards
> > Alberto
> > www.derawson.com / fotos.htm
> >
>
Hi Alberto
Nice photos on your site. The lamb?/goat? looked especially good. Hope
you enjoyed it.
Epoxy would be a much better choice on a boat like that, one that cost
quite a bit to make and that you will be using a while, I would think.
On a boat that small, I would be the difference between polyester and
epoxy resin not amount to that much money.
I would also absolutely not use the USB board on the cabin top, even
if you are going to put fiberglass on one side and seal the other with
epoxy - it doesn't deal well with water or even humidity, judging from
the strong back I made last fall that is in an unheated barn right now
and swelling up with the humidity. It is also much heavier than the 6
mm plywood you would ordinarily use for that, not that much less
expensive, when you consider you don't need very much wood, and it is
going to cause problems down the road and then you will have to
replace it with plywood anyway, though you could strip build it or
even use 3/8" pine or spruce tounge-and-groove wainscotting, which
would cost very little.
Cheers, Brian
Nice photos on your site. The lamb?/goat? looked especially good. Hope
you enjoyed it.
Epoxy would be a much better choice on a boat like that, one that cost
quite a bit to make and that you will be using a while, I would think.
On a boat that small, I would be the difference between polyester and
epoxy resin not amount to that much money.
I would also absolutely not use the USB board on the cabin top, even
if you are going to put fiberglass on one side and seal the other with
epoxy - it doesn't deal well with water or even humidity, judging from
the strong back I made last fall that is in an unheated barn right now
and swelling up with the humidity. It is also much heavier than the 6
mm plywood you would ordinarily use for that, not that much less
expensive, when you consider you don't need very much wood, and it is
going to cause problems down the road and then you will have to
replace it with plywood anyway, though you could strip build it or
even use 3/8" pine or spruce tounge-and-groove wainscotting, which
would cost very little.
Cheers, Brian
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "laciudad2004" <laciudad2004@...> wrote:
>
> Dear Friends
> The price of epoxy has gone to the clouds and I know I can use for
> fiberglass laminating the polyester resin.
> Some say that the epoxy did not adhere. Could someone help me with
> this?
> Best regards
> Alberto
> www.derawson.com / fotos.htm
>
Dear Friends
The price of epoxy has gone to the clouds and I know I can use for
fiberglass laminating the polyester resin.
Some say that the epoxy did not adhere. Could someone help me with
this?
Best regards
Alberto
www.derawson.com / fotos.htm
The price of epoxy has gone to the clouds and I know I can use for
fiberglass laminating the polyester resin.
Some say that the epoxy did not adhere. Could someone help me with
this?
Best regards
Alberto
www.derawson.com / fotos.htm