Romp wish. 372/399. Ok 93% or more will do fine
Wish II seems very much like a smaller AS29. AS29 seems like a
sharpie'd Romp. The proprtional numbers seem all to be very close -
like a pattern. The accomodations are similar, as is the high,
exposed insecure cockpit seating Bolger found wanting in WishII (in
AS29 there's hardly a coaming to speak of, merely some backboards to
the seating).
I really don't see why PCB particulary found this design
wanting, ..."poor business to build an expensive boat that looks
cheap" and the other complaints mentioned could be directed elsewhere
just as well. Maybe he got used to the looks after a time? If this
had of been a commissioned design that was built would he have
written differently?
I've always been a fan of the AS19, a design that PCB found quite
good even though uninspiring to look at (understandibly so!). He had
a client for AS19, so did that cause him to be more positive about
it? After all, in every way the performance is nearly a match, and
there's only about 1.5 sheets of plywood less in it than Wish II, so
his "poor business" comment should still hold, shouldn't it?
I think many of the features in the AS19 that are present in the AS29
could be transferred over to the 20ft Wish II, eg. rudder, outboard
mount, cockpit (without losing the berths or stowage below), and the
sail rig might just simply be switched over. Would that then be an
AS20?
I'd like to try the gaff rig swap. I'd have an outboard, but keep the
external rudder. I'm not sure about the cockpit change - I think I'd
do similar to what Roger Keyes did with his Micro, leaving the
cockpit deck as is and simply add a shelter house over the companion
way and abaft it sufficient for 2 crew to windward. Shelter from the
fierce sun is a high priority, and this deck house addition doesn't
seem to fit well with the AS19 unless the side decks were lowered
which may interfere with self righting.
Graeme
sharpie'd Romp. The proprtional numbers seem all to be very close -
like a pattern. The accomodations are similar, as is the high,
exposed insecure cockpit seating Bolger found wanting in WishII (in
AS29 there's hardly a coaming to speak of, merely some backboards to
the seating).
I really don't see why PCB particulary found this design
wanting, ..."poor business to build an expensive boat that looks
cheap" and the other complaints mentioned could be directed elsewhere
just as well. Maybe he got used to the looks after a time? If this
had of been a commissioned design that was built would he have
written differently?
I've always been a fan of the AS19, a design that PCB found quite
good even though uninspiring to look at (understandibly so!). He had
a client for AS19, so did that cause him to be more positive about
it? After all, in every way the performance is nearly a match, and
there's only about 1.5 sheets of plywood less in it than Wish II, so
his "poor business" comment should still hold, shouldn't it?
I think many of the features in the AS19 that are present in the AS29
could be transferred over to the 20ft Wish II, eg. rudder, outboard
mount, cockpit (without losing the berths or stowage below), and the
sail rig might just simply be switched over. Would that then be an
AS20?
I'd like to try the gaff rig swap. I'd have an outboard, but keep the
external rudder. I'm not sure about the cockpit change - I think I'd
do similar to what Roger Keyes did with his Micro, leaving the
cockpit deck as is and simply add a shelter house over the companion
way and abaft it sufficient for 2 crew to windward. Shelter from the
fierce sun is a high priority, and this deck house addition doesn't
seem to fit well with the AS19 unless the side decks were lowered
which may interfere with self righting.
Graeme
Didn't make it to "the" top #400. Non-descript ugly is she? The
cockpit high, the rail lacking security, shallow and exposed, ...bah
(what of Micro, eh?).
Alright, so you looks at Wish II for a while in 30 ODD, and then yer
looks at Romp in Different Boats, and yer knows what... disregarding
the Romp junk-like mizzen plus her reaching spinnaker and her lines
below the boot top (BUT back to them lines down below)... in the
inked sailing plan profiles they're all but the same! Same plumb bow,
plumb stern, external rudder, sheer line, port lights, upper molding,
mast rake, small companionway hatch (almost), topside/superstructure
windage (overall proportionality) at the Wharram claimed max for any
good sailing vessel of ~15% (height/LOA), spot-on,...
What's all this "ugly", "unworthy" business then??
Bolger on Romp:
"with its buttock lines level amidships and sharply turned up at the
ends, sharp bow and slack quarters - is against all the instructions
of the textbooks I was brought up with" - yes, yes, yes, Wish II
hasn't got slack quarters nor deeply veed bow, BUT then they're out'a
the water idn't they? - mostly amounts to the same thing. Take a
look.
We've now read, and recently heard the secret (re Dovekie), how the
rounded turn at topsides to bottom does away with turbulence for a
flat no-rocker bottom, but we also have read and likewise heard that
for a sharpie it's all about the rocker... below the waterline these
are somewhat different looking boats, but, as above, the result is
quite the same!
Bloody hell! "Daniel's boat strikes a harsh note... no more
concession to the fine arts than the behaviour of wind and water
dictate... efficient though austere... not grace but strength of
character... centreboard rather than leeboards - not to escape the
ugly excrescences... engineless,,, because it would be an inefficient
use of space for her function... prime function of her shallow draft
to open up berths... shallow boats are the most seaworthy,,, skitter
away from a cresting sea,,, pass over deadly perils... move with
little disturbance of the water... buttock lines (12-meters and
Thames barges, cargo motorships and IOR racers: clues already
mentioned above)... within the highway breadth limits... more
bouyancy amidships?... NO... no such thing as an uncapsizable boat,,,
But there are self righting boats... must be high-sided relative to
her deck breadth... I've seen very few boats in which I'd have less
sense of danger offshore... Her small sail area is suited for the
winds... The plans are sparse because the owner was well qualified to
detail her... All he bought from me was a shape, a sail plan, and the
design for a cantilevered mast." This all could, within reason, be
Bolger writing also on Wish II!
Betch'a ballast ratio is about the same in both.
Now, who'd 'a thought: Pacific crossing, FNQ cruisin' and Cyclone
Larry to Tassie forties (nearly fifties) ROMP had a square sister?
All I spot missing from the plans of WISH II in 30 ODD are the rudder
and leeboard shaping details. A building key would be nice. And allow
a bit more mainsail for round here some a' time.
More deck loungin' and sunnin' space than AS19 designed for same on
same draft, but only for sheltered water.
It could be said that James Wharram has only one kind of boat in his
head ( kind'a Platonic forms), has Phil only got... I dunno... three?
Graeme
who for close range solo and no worse than semi-protected waters
would 'a been hard pressed to pick a Wish II over a Michalak
Normsboat, but then I'd 'a been more pressed to pick it over/from a
Romp...
cockpit high, the rail lacking security, shallow and exposed, ...bah
(what of Micro, eh?).
Alright, so you looks at Wish II for a while in 30 ODD, and then yer
looks at Romp in Different Boats, and yer knows what... disregarding
the Romp junk-like mizzen plus her reaching spinnaker and her lines
below the boot top (BUT back to them lines down below)... in the
inked sailing plan profiles they're all but the same! Same plumb bow,
plumb stern, external rudder, sheer line, port lights, upper molding,
mast rake, small companionway hatch (almost), topside/superstructure
windage (overall proportionality) at the Wharram claimed max for any
good sailing vessel of ~15% (height/LOA), spot-on,...
What's all this "ugly", "unworthy" business then??
Bolger on Romp:
"with its buttock lines level amidships and sharply turned up at the
ends, sharp bow and slack quarters - is against all the instructions
of the textbooks I was brought up with" - yes, yes, yes, Wish II
hasn't got slack quarters nor deeply veed bow, BUT then they're out'a
the water idn't they? - mostly amounts to the same thing. Take a
look.
We've now read, and recently heard the secret (re Dovekie), how the
rounded turn at topsides to bottom does away with turbulence for a
flat no-rocker bottom, but we also have read and likewise heard that
for a sharpie it's all about the rocker... below the waterline these
are somewhat different looking boats, but, as above, the result is
quite the same!
Bloody hell! "Daniel's boat strikes a harsh note... no more
concession to the fine arts than the behaviour of wind and water
dictate... efficient though austere... not grace but strength of
character... centreboard rather than leeboards - not to escape the
ugly excrescences... engineless,,, because it would be an inefficient
use of space for her function... prime function of her shallow draft
to open up berths... shallow boats are the most seaworthy,,, skitter
away from a cresting sea,,, pass over deadly perils... move with
little disturbance of the water... buttock lines (12-meters and
Thames barges, cargo motorships and IOR racers: clues already
mentioned above)... within the highway breadth limits... more
bouyancy amidships?... NO... no such thing as an uncapsizable boat,,,
But there are self righting boats... must be high-sided relative to
her deck breadth... I've seen very few boats in which I'd have less
sense of danger offshore... Her small sail area is suited for the
winds... The plans are sparse because the owner was well qualified to
detail her... All he bought from me was a shape, a sail plan, and the
design for a cantilevered mast." This all could, within reason, be
Bolger writing also on Wish II!
Betch'a ballast ratio is about the same in both.
Now, who'd 'a thought: Pacific crossing, FNQ cruisin' and Cyclone
Larry to Tassie forties (nearly fifties) ROMP had a square sister?
All I spot missing from the plans of WISH II in 30 ODD are the rudder
and leeboard shaping details. A building key would be nice. And allow
a bit more mainsail for round here some a' time.
More deck loungin' and sunnin' space than AS19 designed for same on
same draft, but only for sheltered water.
It could be said that James Wharram has only one kind of boat in his
head ( kind'a Platonic forms), has Phil only got... I dunno... three?
Graeme
who for close range solo and no worse than semi-protected waters
would 'a been hard pressed to pick a Wish II over a Michalak
Normsboat, but then I'd 'a been more pressed to pick it over/from a
Romp...