Re: Birdwatcher costs
Gene,
thanks for setting me straight on this.
Graeme
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Gene Tehansky <goldranger02-boats@...>
wrote:
thanks for setting me straight on this.
Graeme
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Gene Tehansky <goldranger02-boats@...>
wrote:
>
> Graeme,
> Plexiglass is acrylic not polycarbonate. I looked around on the web
> to make sure.
"Plexiglass" is a tradename for Acrylic, "Lexan" for polycarbonate.
They're becoming generic terms though, like "Skilsaw."
They're becoming generic terms though, like "Skilsaw."
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...> wrote:
> ...
> My take is that, given his minimilist construction ethos, JM may well
> have spent half on the window materials. In some design write-ups he
> mentions "plexiglass", which I take to be "lexan", or polycarbonate
> the dearer kind of the two plastc types that are suitable....
--
John <jkohnen@...>
It's hard to be religious when certain people are never
incinerated by bolts of lightning. <Bill Watterson>
Graeme,
Plexiglass is acrylic not polycarbonate. I looked around on the web
to make sure.
Sincerely,
Gene T.
Plexiglass is acrylic not polycarbonate. I looked around on the web
to make sure.
Sincerely,
Gene T.
On 28 Jan, 2009, at 7:50 PM, graeme19121984 wrote:
> Thanks to all that responded to my query and more.
>
> My take is that, given his minimilist construction ethos, JM may well
> have spent half on the window materials. In some design write-ups he
> mentions "plexiglass", which I take to be "lexan", or polycarbonate
> the dearer kind of the two plastc types that are suitable. Real
> prices for plexiglass 20 years ago may have been relatively higher
> too. I thought it one reason for his style of BW window designs - I
> gather he thought it profligate expenditure in the Bolger.
>
> These days it now seems it would be best to use only the more
> expensive types of scratch and UV resistant types of Lexan
> polycarbonate. Or to use acrylic for those properties and somewhat
> lesser expense.
>
> I guess if the construction was best WEST, and glass sheating rather
> than just tape over the chines, then the costs either way won't be
> 50% for windows.
>
> Mason: thanks for your observations on the merits of internal colour
> scheme choice in combination with the effects of clear or tinted
> windows - internal reflections etc. I think darker windows and deeper
> colour choices inside might be the way to go for my use. I had
> wondered, as PCB seemed to change his advice from tinted to clear
> between the original and his 2004 articles.
>
> Graeme
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Feller" <chrisbfeller@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > I would think you could get acrylic for around $200.00 per sheet or
> > less. I paid $100.00 for a 3/16 inch thick 4x8 sheet of acrylic a
> > couple of years ago for my Michalak Philsboat.
> >
> > I choose acrylic over polycarbonate because of its resistance to
> > scratching compared to polycarbonate as well as its resistance to
> > sunlight. While it is true that acrylic is not as strong it is
> still
> > very strong. Much stronger than glass. Cessna used it on the
> > windshield of my Cessna 150. I figure if it's strong enough for
> that
> > then it should be fine my boat.
> >
> > Chris Feller
> > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Just checking on a comment of Jim Michalak's I read recently. He
> wrote
> > > that the window material in his Birdwatcher amounted to half the
> cost
> > > of the boat. This surprised me.
> > >
> > > Would that costing be about right today?
> > >
> > > Graeme
> > >
> >
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Hello Graeme - If you have a look at Ians "Dawn Song" you'll see he
saved a sheet on the windows by raising the the deck sides so that
each window was half a sheet deep - I think
Darrell
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
wrote:
saved a sheet on the windows by raising the the deck sides so that
each window was half a sheet deep - I think
Darrell
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
wrote:
>
> Thanks to all that responded to my query and more.
>
> My take is that, given his minimilist construction ethos, JM may well
> have spent half on the window materials. In some design write-ups he
> mentions "plexiglass", which I take to be "lexan", or polycarbonate
> the dearer kind of the two plastc types that are suitable. Real
> prices for plexiglass 20 years ago may have been relatively higher
> too. I thought it one reason for his style of BW window designs - I
> gather he thought it profligate expenditure in the Bolger.
>
> These days it now seems it would be best to use only the more
> expensive types of scratch and UV resistant types of Lexan
> polycarbonate. Or to use acrylic for those properties and somewhat
> lesser expense.
>
> I guess if the construction was best WEST, and glass sheating rather
> than just tape over the chines, then the costs either way won't be
> 50% for windows.
>
> Mason: thanks for your observations on the merits of internal colour
> scheme choice in combination with the effects of clear or tinted
> windows - internal reflections etc. I think darker windows and deeper
> colour choices inside might be the way to go for my use. I had
> wondered, as PCB seemed to change his advice from tinted to clear
> between the original and his 2004 articles.
>
> Graeme
>
>
>
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Feller" <chrisbfeller@>
> wrote:
> >
> > I would think you could get acrylic for around $200.00 per sheet or
> > less. I paid $100.00 for a 3/16 inch thick 4x8 sheet of acrylic a
> > couple of years ago for my Michalak Philsboat.
> >
> > I choose acrylic over polycarbonate because of its resistance to
> > scratching compared to polycarbonate as well as its resistance to
> > sunlight. While it is true that acrylic is not as strong it is
> still
> > very strong. Much stronger than glass. Cessna used it on the
> > windshield of my Cessna 150. I figure if it's strong enough for
> that
> > then it should be fine my boat.
> >
> > Chris Feller
> > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Just checking on a comment of Jim Michalak's I read recently. He
> wrote
> > > that the window material in his Birdwatcher amounted to half the
> cost
> > > of the boat. This surprised me.
> > >
> > > Would that costing be about right today?
> > >
> > > Graeme
> > >
> >
>
One more report. April of 2005 I paid $442 US for two 4x8-ft sheets
of 1/4-inch Macrolon, clear with scratch and UV resistant coating.
I paid $134 US for a 4x4-ft half-sheet of the same stuff plus gray
tint, for the raised deck pieces. A total of $576, but that was 4-
years of turmoil in oil prices ago.
This came from the local distributor in Portland Oregon. It takes 2-
1/2 sheets for the BW2 and that requires shortening the raised deck
panes slightly, a non-issue.
As was stated, but not emphasized, the added UV resistance comes
together with the scratch resistance.
Also, check if the distributor will sell a partial sheet. Mine did
not charge anything extra for that, and cut it precisely in a huge
machine (fun to watch).
Cheers, Bob
of 1/4-inch Macrolon, clear with scratch and UV resistant coating.
I paid $134 US for a 4x4-ft half-sheet of the same stuff plus gray
tint, for the raised deck pieces. A total of $576, but that was 4-
years of turmoil in oil prices ago.
This came from the local distributor in Portland Oregon. It takes 2-
1/2 sheets for the BW2 and that requires shortening the raised deck
panes slightly, a non-issue.
As was stated, but not emphasized, the added UV resistance comes
together with the scratch resistance.
Also, check if the distributor will sell a partial sheet. Mine did
not charge anything extra for that, and cut it precisely in a huge
machine (fun to watch).
Cheers, Bob
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
>
> If you are going to use Lexan you need to go with UV resistant
scratch
> resistant stuff and that is very expensive. I had a 4x8 sheet
delivered
> to Juneau and it was over $500.
>
> HJ
>
Thanks to all that responded to my query and more.
My take is that, given his minimilist construction ethos, JM may well
have spent half on the window materials. In some design write-ups he
mentions "plexiglass", which I take to be "lexan", or polycarbonate
the dearer kind of the two plastc types that are suitable. Real
prices for plexiglass 20 years ago may have been relatively higher
too. I thought it one reason for his style of BW window designs - I
gather he thought it profligate expenditure in the Bolger.
These days it now seems it would be best to use only the more
expensive types of scratch and UV resistant types of Lexan
polycarbonate. Or to use acrylic for those properties and somewhat
lesser expense.
I guess if the construction was best WEST, and glass sheating rather
than just tape over the chines, then the costs either way won't be
50% for windows.
Mason: thanks for your observations on the merits of internal colour
scheme choice in combination with the effects of clear or tinted
windows - internal reflections etc. I think darker windows and deeper
colour choices inside might be the way to go for my use. I had
wondered, as PCB seemed to change his advice from tinted to clear
between the original and his 2004 articles.
Graeme
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Feller" <chrisbfeller@...>
wrote:
My take is that, given his minimilist construction ethos, JM may well
have spent half on the window materials. In some design write-ups he
mentions "plexiglass", which I take to be "lexan", or polycarbonate
the dearer kind of the two plastc types that are suitable. Real
prices for plexiglass 20 years ago may have been relatively higher
too. I thought it one reason for his style of BW window designs - I
gather he thought it profligate expenditure in the Bolger.
These days it now seems it would be best to use only the more
expensive types of scratch and UV resistant types of Lexan
polycarbonate. Or to use acrylic for those properties and somewhat
lesser expense.
I guess if the construction was best WEST, and glass sheating rather
than just tape over the chines, then the costs either way won't be
50% for windows.
Mason: thanks for your observations on the merits of internal colour
scheme choice in combination with the effects of clear or tinted
windows - internal reflections etc. I think darker windows and deeper
colour choices inside might be the way to go for my use. I had
wondered, as PCB seemed to change his advice from tinted to clear
between the original and his 2004 articles.
Graeme
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Feller" <chrisbfeller@...>
wrote:
>still
> I would think you could get acrylic for around $200.00 per sheet or
> less. I paid $100.00 for a 3/16 inch thick 4x8 sheet of acrylic a
> couple of years ago for my Michalak Philsboat.
>
> I choose acrylic over polycarbonate because of its resistance to
> scratching compared to polycarbonate as well as its resistance to
> sunlight. While it is true that acrylic is not as strong it is
> very strong. Much stronger than glass. Cessna used it on thethat
> windshield of my Cessna 150. I figure if it's strong enough for
> then it should be fine my boat.wrote
>
> Chris Feller
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Just checking on a comment of Jim Michalak's I read recently. He
> > that the window material in his Birdwatcher amounted to half thecost
> > of the boat. This surprised me.
> >
> > Would that costing be about right today?
> >
> > Graeme
> >
>
I've used Colgate to buff out the so-called "crystal" on my Timex - works great!
--- On Wed, 1/21/09, ladycathyofwales <catherine.james@...> wrote:
From: ladycathyofwales <catherine.james@...>
Subject: [bolger] Re: Birdwatcher costs
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, January 21, 2009, 8:48 PM
Lexan is commonly used on aircraft windshields. I read an article in
an aviation magazine many years ago that described the process of
sanding out scratches. Essentially, you use a piece of heavy grit
sandpaper and sand until the scratch is completely gone. Then you go
through several rounds of finer and finer grit sandpaper, and finally
you use toothpaste (a very mild abrasive) and your fingers for the
final polish.
I've never tried it or talked to anyone who tried it, though. It
sounds like a lot of labor!
Cathy
--- In bolger@yahoogroups. com, "gbship" <gbship@...> wrote:
>
> Somewhere I seem to recall a recommendation to use toothpaste to clear
> up the cloudiness. Anyone try that?
>
> Gary
>
> --- In bolger@yahoogroups. com, "mason smith" <masonsmith@ > wrote:
> >
> > Brasso might be worth a try, on the corroded Lexan, but I must have
> tried most everything else, including polishing compounds like 3M
> Ultrafine finishing compound with a sheepskin buffer. If anybody wants
> the windows for a Whalewatcher, somewhat yellowed and surface-
> contaminated, come get 'em. ---Mason
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lexan is commonly used on aircraft windshields. I read an article in
an aviation magazine many years ago that described the process of
sanding out scratches. Essentially, you use a piece of heavy grit
sandpaper and sand until the scratch is completely gone. Then you go
through several rounds of finer and finer grit sandpaper, and finally
you use toothpaste (a very mild abrasive) and your fingers for the
final polish.
I've never tried it or talked to anyone who tried it, though. It
sounds like a lot of labor!
Cathy
an aviation magazine many years ago that described the process of
sanding out scratches. Essentially, you use a piece of heavy grit
sandpaper and sand until the scratch is completely gone. Then you go
through several rounds of finer and finer grit sandpaper, and finally
you use toothpaste (a very mild abrasive) and your fingers for the
final polish.
I've never tried it or talked to anyone who tried it, though. It
sounds like a lot of labor!
Cathy
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "gbship" <gbship@...> wrote:
>
> Somewhere I seem to recall a recommendation to use toothpaste to clear
> up the cloudiness. Anyone try that?
>
> Gary
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "mason smith" <masonsmith@> wrote:
> >
> > Brasso might be worth a try, on the corroded Lexan, but I must have
> tried most everything else, including polishing compounds like 3M
> Ultrafine finishing compound with a sheepskin buffer. If anybody wants
> the windows for a Whalewatcher, somewhat yellowed and surface-
> contaminated, come get 'em. ---Mason
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
Somewhere I seem to recall a recommendation to use toothpaste to clear
up the cloudiness. Anyone try that?
Gary
up the cloudiness. Anyone try that?
Gary
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "mason smith" <masonsmith@...> wrote:
>
> Brasso might be worth a try, on the corroded Lexan, but I must have
tried most everything else, including polishing compounds like 3M
Ultrafine finishing compound with a sheepskin buffer. If anybody wants
the windows for a Whalewatcher, somewhat yellowed and surface-
contaminated, come get 'em. ---Mason
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Brasso might be worth a try, on the corroded Lexan, but I must have tried most everything else, including polishing compounds like 3M Ultrafine finishing compound with a sheepskin buffer. If anybody wants the windows for a Whalewatcher, somewhat yellowed and surface-contaminated, come get 'em. ---Mason
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mason, Michael and Lexan users, generally:
The stuff costs like crazy and is easily marred. A WARNING. I left the protective sheeting
on my windows to avoid scratches and was told after almost two years that the protective
plastic can bond itself to the surface.
That happened to a friend, who had to re-purchase his lexan.
After he warned me I stripped it and found that I could only get it off if it was cold and I
had to tease it off very gently indeed and had to coax the last stubborn bits off with a
razor blade.
I'd guess that another month or two in the sun would have been fatal.
There's a homeowner hint here in the cold north to stick bubblewrap sheets to your
windows with water for insulation. Sounds harmless and might be worth a try.
Good luck.
Eric
The stuff costs like crazy and is easily marred. A WARNING. I left the protective sheeting
on my windows to avoid scratches and was told after almost two years that the protective
plastic can bond itself to the surface.
That happened to a friend, who had to re-purchase his lexan.
After he warned me I stripped it and found that I could only get it off if it was cold and I
had to tease it off very gently indeed and had to coax the last stubborn bits off with a
razor blade.
I'd guess that another month or two in the sun would have been fatal.
There's a homeowner hint here in the cold north to stick bubblewrap sheets to your
windows with water for insulation. Sounds harmless and might be worth a try.
Good luck.
Eric
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Michael Walther <michawalth3@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Mason, Apple recomends brasso & a soft cloth on its iPods, perhaps this would help.
Test a small area & if it works continue in easy to handle smallish sections. Also, I
pollished the face of a cell phone, software & music discs rubbing quickly at a high rate of
speed on my b'jeened leg, with enough time & rubbing the scratches were gone with a like
new shiny surface. It's all about the soft cloth. Thanks, Mike
>
>
> --- On Sun, 1/18/09, mason smith <masonsmith@...> wrote:
>
> > From: mason smith <masonsmith@...>
> > Subject: [bolger] Re:Birdwatcher costs
> > To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Sunday, January 18, 2009, 11:15 PM
> > Replying to Graeme's question about the polycarbonate
> > costs for a Birdwatcher: I can report that the stuff for
> > Whalewatcher was just on $1000. Including those forward
> > triangles which are glazed on Birdwatcher but not on the
> > plans for Whalewatcher. Birdwatcher has cabin-top panels,
> > and Whalewatcher has an unglazed section each side where the
> > leeboards operate, so I think the requirements of the two
> > boats wouldn't be too far apart. Yes, it's costly,
> > and how do you keep it pristine? The stuff that arrived with
> > the Whalewatcher hull I've just fitted out was not clear
> > any more. Its surfaces seemed contaminated and I
> > couldn't clean them, so we bought all new; and now the
> > owner is rightly concerned with trailering the boat when
> > ther might be sand and salt on the roads. There is also the
> > problem of interior reflections obscuring the view. My
> > second Birdwatcher had clear Lexan and a white interior, and
> > I could see out of it much less well than my first -- which,
> > as it happens, was the first one built, by Ron Mueller, then
> > of Arvada, CO.
> > By th way, I am in the habit of saying that this
> > Whalewatcher I have been finishing will be the first one
> > launched, comprising parts of the one started for George
> > Anger (See BWOM) and one started by Tim Anderson in San
> > Diego. Does anybody know different? Phil has never learned
> > of one completed.---Mason
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or
> > flogging dead horses
> > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed,
> > thanks, Fred' posts
> > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and
> > snip away
> > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester,
> > MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > - Open discussion:
> >bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups
> > Links
> >
> >
> >
>
Hi Mason, Apple recomends brasso & a soft cloth on its iPods, perhaps this would help. Test a small area & if it works continue in easy to handle smallish sections. Also, I pollished the face of a cell phone, software & music discs rubbing quickly at a high rate of speed on my b'jeened leg, with enough time & rubbing the scratches were gone with a like new shiny surface. It's all about the soft cloth. Thanks, Mike
--- On Sun, 1/18/09, mason smith <masonsmith@...> wrote:
> From: mason smith <masonsmith@...>
> Subject: [bolger] Re:Birdwatcher costs
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Sunday, January 18, 2009, 11:15 PM
> Replying to Graeme's question about the polycarbonate
> costs for a Birdwatcher: I can report that the stuff for
> Whalewatcher was just on $1000. Including those forward
> triangles which are glazed on Birdwatcher but not on the
> plans for Whalewatcher. Birdwatcher has cabin-top panels,
> and Whalewatcher has an unglazed section each side where the
> leeboards operate, so I think the requirements of the two
> boats wouldn't be too far apart. Yes, it's costly,
> and how do you keep it pristine? The stuff that arrived with
> the Whalewatcher hull I've just fitted out was not clear
> any more. Its surfaces seemed contaminated and I
> couldn't clean them, so we bought all new; and now the
> owner is rightly concerned with trailering the boat when
> ther might be sand and salt on the roads. There is also the
> problem of interior reflections obscuring the view. My
> second Birdwatcher had clear Lexan and a white interior, and
> I could see out of it much less well than my first -- which,
> as it happens, was the first one built, by Ron Mueller, then
> of Arvada, CO.
> By th way, I am in the habit of saying that this
> Whalewatcher I have been finishing will be the first one
> launched, comprising parts of the one started for George
> Anger (See BWOM) and one started by Tim Anderson in San
> Diego. Does anybody know different? Phil has never learned
> of one completed.---Mason
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or
> flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed,
> thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and
> snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester,
> MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:
>bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups
> Links
>
>
>
I would think you could get acrylic for around $200.00 per sheet or
less. I paid $100.00 for a 3/16 inch thick 4x8 sheet of acrylic a
couple of years ago for my Michalak Philsboat.
I choose acrylic over polycarbonate because of its resistance to
scratching compared to polycarbonate as well as its resistance to
sunlight. While it is true that acrylic is not as strong it is still
very strong. Much stronger than glass. Cessna used it on the
windshield of my Cessna 150. I figure if it's strong enough for that
then it should be fine my boat.
Chris Feller
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
wrote:
less. I paid $100.00 for a 3/16 inch thick 4x8 sheet of acrylic a
couple of years ago for my Michalak Philsboat.
I choose acrylic over polycarbonate because of its resistance to
scratching compared to polycarbonate as well as its resistance to
sunlight. While it is true that acrylic is not as strong it is still
very strong. Much stronger than glass. Cessna used it on the
windshield of my Cessna 150. I figure if it's strong enough for that
then it should be fine my boat.
Chris Feller
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
wrote:
>
> Just checking on a comment of Jim Michalak's I read recently. He wrote
> that the window material in his Birdwatcher amounted to half the cost
> of the boat. This surprised me.
>
> Would that costing be about right today?
>
> Graeme
>
Hi Harry,
window well in order to keep debris out of the well. It's lasted quite
well and done its job just fine, but it's opaque, not transparent any
more. That's not a concern for what I'm using it for, but on a boat
the scratch-resistant stuff would be the only way to go.
Jon Kolb
www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
> If you are going to use Lexan you need to go with UV resistantscratch
> resistant stuff and that is very expensive. I had a 4x8 sheetdelivered
> to Juneau and it was over $500.I bought a chunk of 1/2" Lexan some years ago and cut it to cover a
window well in order to keep debris out of the well. It's lasted quite
well and done its job just fine, but it's opaque, not transparent any
more. That's not a concern for what I'm using it for, but on a boat
the scratch-resistant stuff would be the only way to go.
Jon Kolb
www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
I think this thread came up a few years ago and is in the archives. The
cost information would be dated, but I recall some discussion about the
need for tinted Lexan.
V/R
Chris
Harry James wrote:
cost information would be dated, but I recall some discussion about the
need for tinted Lexan.
V/R
Chris
Harry James wrote:
> If you are going to use Lexan you need to go with UV resistant scratch[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> resistant stuff and that is very expensive. I had a 4x8 sheet delivered
> to Juneau and it was over $500.
>
> HJ
>
> mason smith wrote:
>
>> Replying to Graeme's question about the polycarbonate costs for a Birdwatcher: I can report that the stuff for Whalewatcher was just on $1000. Including those forward triangles which are glazed on Birdwatcher but not on the plans for Whalewatcher. Birdwatcher has cabin-top panels, and Whalewatcher has an unglazed section each side where the leeboards operate, so I think the requirements of the two boats wouldn't be too far apart. Yes, it's costly, and how do you keep it pristine? The stuff that arrived with the Whalewatcher hull I've just fitted out was not clear any more. Its surfaces seemed contaminated and I couldn't clean them, so we bought all new; and now the owner is rightly concerned with trailering the boat when ther might be sand and salt on the roads. There is also the problem of interior reflections obscuring the view. My second Birdwatcher had clear Lexan and a white interior, and I could see out of it much less well than my first -- which, as it happens, was the first
>>
> one built, by Ron Mueller, then of Arvada, CO.
>
>> By th way, I am in the habit of saying that this Whalewatcher I have been finishing will be the first one launched, comprising parts of the one started for George Anger (See BWOM) and one started by Tim Anderson in San Diego. Does anybody know different? Phil has never learned of one completed.---Mason
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------
>>
>> Bolger rules!!!
>> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
>> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
>> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
>> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
>> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
If you are going to use Lexan you need to go with UV resistant scratch
resistant stuff and that is very expensive. I had a 4x8 sheet delivered
to Juneau and it was over $500.
HJ
mason smith wrote:
resistant stuff and that is very expensive. I had a 4x8 sheet delivered
to Juneau and it was over $500.
HJ
mason smith wrote:
> Replying to Graeme's question about the polycarbonate costs for a Birdwatcher: I can report that the stuff for Whalewatcher was just on $1000. Including those forward triangles which are glazed on Birdwatcher but not on the plans for Whalewatcher. Birdwatcher has cabin-top panels, and Whalewatcher has an unglazed section each side where the leeboards operate, so I think the requirements of the two boats wouldn't be too far apart. Yes, it's costly, and how do you keep it pristine? The stuff that arrived with the Whalewatcher hull I've just fitted out was not clear any more. Its surfaces seemed contaminated and I couldn't clean them, so we bought all new; and now the owner is rightly concerned with trailering the boat when ther might be sand and salt on the roads. There is also the problem of interior reflections obscuring the view. My second Birdwatcher had clear Lexan and a white interior, and I could see out of it much less well than my first -- which, as it happens, was the first one built, by Ron Mueller, then of Arvada, CO.
> By th way, I am in the habit of saying that this Whalewatcher I have been finishing will be the first one launched, comprising parts of the one started for George Anger (See BWOM) and one started by Tim Anderson in San Diego. Does anybody know different? Phil has never learned of one completed.---Mason
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
On Sun, Jan 18, 2009 at 3:25 PM, michaelphayden
<michaelphayden@...> wrote:
Spyder, so I am curious. What thickness of polycarb was quoted at
$320 per sheet? 4x8 ft sheets?
<michaelphayden@...> wrote:
> Mason,I am on the verge of buying a sheet for the windscreen on my Topaz
>
> Using three sheets of the stuff I quoted previously at around $320 per
> sheet would add up to pretty close to your figure of $1000. Did the
> Whalewatcher project require three sheets?
>
> Regards,
>
> Michael Hayden
Spyder, so I am curious. What thickness of polycarb was quoted at
$320 per sheet? 4x8 ft sheets?
Mason,
Using three sheets of the stuff I quoted previously at around $320 per
sheet would add up to pretty close to your figure of $1000. Did the
Whalewatcher project require three sheets?
Regards,
Michael Hayden
Using three sheets of the stuff I quoted previously at around $320 per
sheet would add up to pretty close to your figure of $1000. Did the
Whalewatcher project require three sheets?
Regards,
Michael Hayden
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "mason smith" <masonsmith@...> wrote:
>
> Replying to Graeme's question about the polycarbonate costs for a
Birdwatcher: I can report that the stuff for Whalewatcher was just on
$1000. Including those forward triangles which are glazed on
Birdwatcher but not on the plans for Whalewatcher. Birdwatcher has
cabin-top panels, and Whalewatcher has an unglazed section each side
where the leeboards operate, so I think the requirements of the two
boats wouldn't be too far apart. Yes, it's costly, and how do you keep
it pristine? The stuff that arrived with the Whalewatcher hull I've
just fitted out was not clear any more. Its surfaces seemed
contaminated and I couldn't clean them, so we bought all new; and now
the owner is rightly concerned with trailering the boat when ther
might be sand and salt on the roads. There is also the problem of
interior reflections obscuring the view. My second Birdwatcher had
clear Lexan and a white interior, and I could see out of it much less
well than my first -- which, as it happens, was the first one built,
by Ron Mueller, then of Arvada, CO.
> By th way, I am in the habit of saying that this Whalewatcher I
have been finishing will be the first one launched, comprising parts
of the one started for George Anger (See BWOM) and one started by Tim
Anderson in San Diego. Does anybody know different? Phil has never
learned of one completed.---Mason
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Replying to Graeme's question about the polycarbonate costs for a Birdwatcher: I can report that the stuff for Whalewatcher was just on $1000. Including those forward triangles which are glazed on Birdwatcher but not on the plans for Whalewatcher. Birdwatcher has cabin-top panels, and Whalewatcher has an unglazed section each side where the leeboards operate, so I think the requirements of the two boats wouldn't be too far apart. Yes, it's costly, and how do you keep it pristine? The stuff that arrived with the Whalewatcher hull I've just fitted out was not clear any more. Its surfaces seemed contaminated and I couldn't clean them, so we bought all new; and now the owner is rightly concerned with trailering the boat when ther might be sand and salt on the roads. There is also the problem of interior reflections obscuring the view. My second Birdwatcher had clear Lexan and a white interior, and I could see out of it much less well than my first -- which, as it happens, was the first one built, by Ron Mueller, then of Arvada, CO.
By th way, I am in the habit of saying that this Whalewatcher I have been finishing will be the first one launched, comprising parts of the one started for George Anger (See BWOM) and one started by Tim Anderson in San Diego. Does anybody know different? Phil has never learned of one completed.---Mason
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
By th way, I am in the habit of saying that this Whalewatcher I have been finishing will be the first one launched, comprising parts of the one started for George Anger (See BWOM) and one started by Tim Anderson in San Diego. Does anybody know different? Phil has never learned of one completed.---Mason
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Graeme,
Here is some info on the window material. Perhaps you can combine it
with your estimate of the cost of the remainder of the boat to arrive
at a conclusion.
My Birdwatcher plans call for 1/4 inch (0.25") material for the "sides
of raised deck", i.e., the windows, and the "after part of raised
deck...to give a view of the sail". I believe the widest piece needed
is approximately 16 inches (max. height of side window), so it looks
like two (2) sheets, each 4 feet by 8 feet in size, would suffice,
since three such pieces can be gotten out of the 48 inch width.
In a quick check online at professionalplastics.com and polyzone.com,
I found the following prices. For clear polycarbonate sheet, branded
as Lexan, Makrolon, Hyzod, Implast2020 (maybe more), the price for a 4
foot by 8 foot by 0.25 inch sheet runs from $310 to $320. For clear
cast acrylic sheet, branded as Plexiglass, Acrylite, Lucite, Polycast
(maybe more), the same size of sheet runs from $194 to $212, while
clear extruded acrylic sheet runs around $229 per sheet.
Of course, there are several varieties of each material available,
including "solar", bullet-resistant(!), etc.
I have used Lexan polycarbonate in the past for protective covers
(a.k.a. "guards") on machinery. As you probably know, it withstands
impact and bending loads without breaking. In fact, I have seen a
0.25 inch sheet of it bent in a metal brake to the tightest radius of
which the brake was capable, essentially being doubled onto itself,
without breaking. I would use a polycarbonate, rather than an
acrylic, myself. As Professional Plastics state on their website,
"Polycarbonate sheet (aka Lexan, Makrolon) glazing offers superior
durability, unmatched design flexibility and structural integrity that
easily surpasses laminated glass and acrylic alternatives."
Hope this info is helpful.
Regards,
Michael Hayden
Mason, Ohio, USA
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
wrote:
Here is some info on the window material. Perhaps you can combine it
with your estimate of the cost of the remainder of the boat to arrive
at a conclusion.
My Birdwatcher plans call for 1/4 inch (0.25") material for the "sides
of raised deck", i.e., the windows, and the "after part of raised
deck...to give a view of the sail". I believe the widest piece needed
is approximately 16 inches (max. height of side window), so it looks
like two (2) sheets, each 4 feet by 8 feet in size, would suffice,
since three such pieces can be gotten out of the 48 inch width.
In a quick check online at professionalplastics.com and polyzone.com,
I found the following prices. For clear polycarbonate sheet, branded
as Lexan, Makrolon, Hyzod, Implast2020 (maybe more), the price for a 4
foot by 8 foot by 0.25 inch sheet runs from $310 to $320. For clear
cast acrylic sheet, branded as Plexiglass, Acrylite, Lucite, Polycast
(maybe more), the same size of sheet runs from $194 to $212, while
clear extruded acrylic sheet runs around $229 per sheet.
Of course, there are several varieties of each material available,
including "solar", bullet-resistant(!), etc.
I have used Lexan polycarbonate in the past for protective covers
(a.k.a. "guards") on machinery. As you probably know, it withstands
impact and bending loads without breaking. In fact, I have seen a
0.25 inch sheet of it bent in a metal brake to the tightest radius of
which the brake was capable, essentially being doubled onto itself,
without breaking. I would use a polycarbonate, rather than an
acrylic, myself. As Professional Plastics state on their website,
"Polycarbonate sheet (aka Lexan, Makrolon) glazing offers superior
durability, unmatched design flexibility and structural integrity that
easily surpasses laminated glass and acrylic alternatives."
Hope this info is helpful.
Regards,
Michael Hayden
Mason, Ohio, USA
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
wrote:
>
> Just checking on a comment of Jim Michalak's I read recently. He wrote
> that the window material in his Birdwatcher amounted to half the cost
> of the boat. This surprised me.
>
> Would that costing be about right today?
>
> Graeme
>
Just checking on a comment of Jim Michalak's I read recently. He wrote
that the window material in his Birdwatcher amounted to half the cost
of the boat. This surprised me.
Would that costing be about right today?
Graeme
that the window material in his Birdwatcher amounted to half the cost
of the boat. This surprised me.
Would that costing be about right today?
Graeme