Re: Speaking of Birdwatcher
Great to get your thoughts, Eric. I still hope the two boats can see
each other one of these days!
each other one of these days!
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "eohiggins" <eohiggins@...> wrote:
>> 1. Hard covers are a bad idea except when trailering down the
highway; I use the anchor-
> well cover and the one hard cover forward of the mast in case I
take green water over the
> bow -- which hasn't happened, yet.
Yes, I think I forgot to mention that I always leave that forward
cover on, also. That forward space is great for keeping bags dry,
from rain if nothing else.
> 4. Getting aboard from the water I'm still thinking about. A two-
rung rope ladder at the
> starboard bow appeals so swimmers can drip into the anchor well.
I built such a ladder, and it also worked quite well also for getting
aboard from an inflatable. I still carry it.
> 6. .... My cruising rig will be a WB-1 leg-of-mutton sail on a
23ft mast.
I sure understand :-)
> 7. Tell me how your Origo heater for filling the boat with
condensation. I'd been planning
> on a tiny wood stove with a 4in chimney through the aft bulkhead.
I have used the Origo heater and/or stove for about 20 years now, and
really have been happy with the system. For those that are not
familiar with it, the stove and heater use the same simple canister
of absorbant material that you fill with alcohol. There is no
pressure involved, and nothing to go wrong. Everything is as safe as
a flame in a boat can be, and remember alcohol dilutes with water. It
does not generate carbon monoxide. There is no gasoline smell. The
downside is that the cost ber BTU is high. If you are a minimalist,
you can cook on the heater. That is what I do, and it boils water
for a couple of cups in a few minutes.
Condensation around the water is interesting. Around the PNW area,
the temperature usually drops to roughly 100% humidity as soon as the
Sun is down. Dew is everywhere all night. A little bit of heat
inside the boat makes it feel dry, even from the Origo, which is
generating more water vapor. After the heater is turned off,
condensation occurs on the windows, but inside a sleeping bag it
makes no difference. In the morning, the humidity inside and outside
is about 100%. As soon as the heater is lit, the insulated boat
warms up, and I don't recall condensation being an issue. At least
most of the time. I did get caught one night with an inch of snow on
the boat (Depoe Bay in April!) and it was still not a problem.
Bolger designed extended inside walls to catch condensation from the
windows, and these have had some water in them, but not a lot. The
insulated walls are always dry.
I will make a point of watching the condensation better to gather
more data!
By the way, if one wants to be creative with the Origo concept, you
can buy the canisters alone for a lot less than the full units.
Defender, for one, sells these.
Bob
Bob Larkin, I'm delighted to hear from you and I almost missed your message completely
by being away biking.
I see that great minds think alike ... our few differences might be useful to others. Here's
hoping.
1. Hard covers are a bad idea except when trailering down the highway; I use the anchor-
well cover and the one hard cover forward of the mast in case I take green water over the
bow -- which hasn't happened, yet.
2. My camping cover is standing height and full length -- ie. 132in long and 104in on the
longest semi-circular rib. My knees are too boney for crawling and I'm too old to be a
troglodyte! The cover rolls into a 6in bundle and straps to the deck. Weight about 12lbs.
After seeing Mason Smith's pix in Photos of his Whalewatcher cover, I thought I might
copycat. But . . . If there's rain and no wind at all I'll try using the big tent. If there's wind
I'll sail and mop out afterwards.
3. Stowage for us will be in drybags -- with contents listed on the outside. We empty the
boat on every return from voyaging and drybags can be tossed on the dock or the shore
rain or shine and carried away four at a time.
4. Getting aboard from the water I'm still thinking about. A two-rung rope ladder at the
starboard bow appeals so swimmers can drip into the anchor well. We board onto the
after deck at dockside. When we're aground, sitting on the bow and swinging your feet
into the anchor well works very well even for Nancy at 5ft2.
5. Insulation is, I agree, a must in the Pacific Northwest where water temperatures run
around 55degrees. Air temps in the fast-water passes just north of Desolation Sound can
be 10degrees cooler. Feels like summer's over! That we disagree with Mason on this is just
a matter of horses for courses.
6. Your 'fun' with the Solent rig: I like the jaws as seen on your website to control the heel
of the topmast. I'm using just a heelstrap with large parrel beads.
What worried me was the compression load on the mast caused by the super force on
the downhaul to keep the topmast vertical, plus the tension on the halyard. So I put 6ins
of stainless wirerope on the top end of the halyard with a swaged ball that hooks onto a
metal V-notch angled down on the forward face of the masthead. Hook the ball, tension
the downhaul and the halyard can hang loose. Cuts in compression load in half.
My cruising rig will be a WB-1 leg-of-mutton sail on a 23ft mast.
7. Tell me how your Origo heater for filling the boat with condensation. I'd been planning
on a tiny wood stove with a 4in chimney through the aft bulkhead.
Eric
by being away biking.
I see that great minds think alike ... our few differences might be useful to others. Here's
hoping.
1. Hard covers are a bad idea except when trailering down the highway; I use the anchor-
well cover and the one hard cover forward of the mast in case I take green water over the
bow -- which hasn't happened, yet.
2. My camping cover is standing height and full length -- ie. 132in long and 104in on the
longest semi-circular rib. My knees are too boney for crawling and I'm too old to be a
troglodyte! The cover rolls into a 6in bundle and straps to the deck. Weight about 12lbs.
After seeing Mason Smith's pix in Photos of his Whalewatcher cover, I thought I might
copycat. But . . . If there's rain and no wind at all I'll try using the big tent. If there's wind
I'll sail and mop out afterwards.
3. Stowage for us will be in drybags -- with contents listed on the outside. We empty the
boat on every return from voyaging and drybags can be tossed on the dock or the shore
rain or shine and carried away four at a time.
4. Getting aboard from the water I'm still thinking about. A two-rung rope ladder at the
starboard bow appeals so swimmers can drip into the anchor well. We board onto the
after deck at dockside. When we're aground, sitting on the bow and swinging your feet
into the anchor well works very well even for Nancy at 5ft2.
5. Insulation is, I agree, a must in the Pacific Northwest where water temperatures run
around 55degrees. Air temps in the fast-water passes just north of Desolation Sound can
be 10degrees cooler. Feels like summer's over! That we disagree with Mason on this is just
a matter of horses for courses.
6. Your 'fun' with the Solent rig: I like the jaws as seen on your website to control the heel
of the topmast. I'm using just a heelstrap with large parrel beads.
What worried me was the compression load on the mast caused by the super force on
the downhaul to keep the topmast vertical, plus the tension on the halyard. So I put 6ins
of stainless wirerope on the top end of the halyard with a swaged ball that hooks onto a
metal V-notch angled down on the forward face of the masthead. Hook the ball, tension
the downhaul and the halyard can hang loose. Cuts in compression load in half.
My cruising rig will be a WB-1 leg-of-mutton sail on a 23ft mast.
7. Tell me how your Origo heater for filling the boat with condensation. I'd been planning
on a tiny wood stove with a 4in chimney through the aft bulkhead.
Eric
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Larkin" <boblark@...> wrote:
>
> I just got here. I'm usually a little late... successful sailing
> with some bigger waves.
>
>
>
> I have a Origo non-pressurized heater, that we also use to cook on.
> It easily keeps the boat warm.
>
> ... a good spot for a telescoping swim ladder
>
> Bob
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "adventures_in_astrophotography"
> <jon@> wrote:
> >
> > Is anyone aware of any reports on the camping and sailing
>
> >
> > Jon Kolb
> > www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
> >
>
Thanks to both for this exchange, it's going to be news I can use. I've copied/pasted the
Paradoxical dimensions to use like a deck camber diagram. Converting from the
quadrilateral shape of a lugsail to a leg of mutton will keep my brain from getting flabby
over the winter!
Eric
Paradoxical dimensions to use like a deck camber diagram. Converting from the
quadrilateral shape of a lugsail to a leg of mutton will keep my brain from getting flabby
over the winter!
Eric
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "michaelphayden" <michaelphayden@...> wrote:
>
> The spar details are shown on DWG #12 of the Paradox plans set. The
> boom is rectangular in cross section, with each of the four corners
> rounded to an 8mm radius. It is 38mm thick over its full length. It
> is tapered in the other dimension, starting at 35mm at the tack end,
> and ending at 50mm at the clew end. This taper is smooth, but is not
> straight. In particular:
>
> At the tack end, 35mm, as mentioned above.
> At 50mm from the tack, 36mm.
> At 900mm farther along, 43mm.
> At 900mm farther along, 47mm.
> At 900mm farther along, 49mm.
> Another 900mm takes us to the clew end, where it is 50mm, as mentioned
> above.
> The overall length of the boom is noted on the drawing to be 3650mm
> which, of course, matches the sum of the segment lengths listed above.
>
> There is a note on the boom drawing which reads as follows.
> NOTE: TAPER BOOM AS SHOWN - THIS IS CRITICAL TO CORRECT REEFING
> & FURLING.
>
>
>
>
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@>
> wrote:
> >
> > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "eohiggins" <eohiggins@> wrote:
> > >If the circumference is just a fraction larger in the middle of the
> > >mast, the sail's draft should be lessened while the reef rolls in.
> >
> > This is what Layden has done with the standing lugs'l roller furling
> > boom on his Paradox design. I think there a longish, thinnish, shaped,
> > timber fillet is just glued along the middle of the cylindrical boom.
> > Not sure IIRC though - the boom itself might be shaped with a slight
> > swelling to the middle. Either way, photos show the cambered sail looks
> > to remain well shaped as it is progressively unwound/wound on the boom.
> >
> > Graeme
> >
>
The spar details are shown on DWG #12 of the Paradox plans set. The
boom is rectangular in cross section, with each of the four corners
rounded to an 8mm radius. It is 38mm thick over its full length. It
is tapered in the other dimension, starting at 35mm at the tack end,
and ending at 50mm at the clew end. This taper is smooth, but is not
straight. In particular:
At the tack end, 35mm, as mentioned above.
At 50mm from the tack, 36mm.
At 900mm farther along, 43mm.
At 900mm farther along, 47mm.
At 900mm farther along, 49mm.
Another 900mm takes us to the clew end, where it is 50mm, as mentioned
above.
The overall length of the boom is noted on the drawing to be 3650mm
which, of course, matches the sum of the segment lengths listed above.
There is a note on the boom drawing which reads as follows.
NOTE: TAPER BOOM AS SHOWN - THIS IS CRITICAL TO CORRECT REEFING
& FURLING.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
wrote:
boom is rectangular in cross section, with each of the four corners
rounded to an 8mm radius. It is 38mm thick over its full length. It
is tapered in the other dimension, starting at 35mm at the tack end,
and ending at 50mm at the clew end. This taper is smooth, but is not
straight. In particular:
At the tack end, 35mm, as mentioned above.
At 50mm from the tack, 36mm.
At 900mm farther along, 43mm.
At 900mm farther along, 47mm.
At 900mm farther along, 49mm.
Another 900mm takes us to the clew end, where it is 50mm, as mentioned
above.
The overall length of the boom is noted on the drawing to be 3650mm
which, of course, matches the sum of the segment lengths listed above.
There is a note on the boom drawing which reads as follows.
NOTE: TAPER BOOM AS SHOWN - THIS IS CRITICAL TO CORRECT REEFING
& FURLING.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
wrote:
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "eohiggins" <eohiggins@> wrote:
> >If the circumference is just a fraction larger in the middle of the
> >mast, the sail's draft should be lessened while the reef rolls in.
>
> This is what Layden has done with the standing lugs'l roller furling
> boom on his Paradox design. I think there a longish, thinnish, shaped,
> timber fillet is just glued along the middle of the cylindrical boom.
> Not sure IIRC though - the boom itself might be shaped with a slight
> swelling to the middle. Either way, photos show the cambered sail looks
> to remain well shaped as it is progressively unwound/wound on the boom.
>
> Graeme
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "eohiggins" <eohiggins@...> wrote:
boom on his Paradox design. I think there a longish, thinnish, shaped,
timber fillet is just glued along the middle of the cylindrical boom.
Not sure IIRC though - the boom itself might be shaped with a slight
swelling to the middle. Either way, photos show the cambered sail looks
to remain well shaped as it is progressively unwound/wound on the boom.
Graeme
>If the circumference is just a fraction larger in the middle of theThis is what Layden has done with the standing lugs'l roller furling
>mast, the sail's draft should be lessened while the reef rolls in.
boom on his Paradox design. I think there a longish, thinnish, shaped,
timber fillet is just glued along the middle of the cylindrical boom.
Not sure IIRC though - the boom itself might be shaped with a slight
swelling to the middle. Either way, photos show the cambered sail looks
to remain well shaped as it is progressively unwound/wound on the boom.
Graeme
Thanks, Bill, the problem I was trying to avoid was having the foot pulled down onto the
deck as the sail is rolled up . You're right, I'd better model it to find out if the leech
shortens at the same rate as the foot. Hmmm. If the circumference is just a fraction
larger in the middle of the mast, the sail's draft should be lessened while the reef rolls in.
Remember the ancient system of furling by rolling the boom? We used to have to throw a
towel into the sail partway through to flatten out most of the draft. Bloody nuisance, it was
too, the towel always seemed to go over the side when we shook out the reef.
Eric
deck as the sail is rolled up . You're right, I'd better model it to find out if the leech
shortens at the same rate as the foot. Hmmm. If the circumference is just a fraction
larger in the middle of the mast, the sail's draft should be lessened while the reef rolls in.
Remember the ancient system of furling by rolling the boom? We used to have to throw a
towel into the sail partway through to flatten out most of the draft. Bloody nuisance, it was
too, the towel always seemed to go over the side when we shook out the reef.
Eric
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "William Kreamer" <kreamers@...> wrote:
>
> It should work with a taper no problem. Model it? - Bill
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "eohiggins" <eohiggins@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi, Graeme: I'm currently thinking of doing away with grommets and
> reinforcing the slits
> > in the sail with buttonhome stitching through a reinforcing tape.
> > There won't be any strain at all on the buttonholes, the wraps
> around the mast will do all
> > of that. The buttonholes should hold the slits in the sail nearly
> closed when not in use. I
> > hope!
> > The other consideration is that the mast will have to be the same
> effective diameter all
> > the way up. Either a pipe shape like a Laser mast or something
> necked down fore and aft
> > at the partners and necked athwartships at the top like the old
> Brazilian pine Finn class
> > masts. Otherwise the wraps won't come out even.
> > Sorry for the delay in answering, I've been cycling around
> Hawaii. ( Not sorry for the
> > cycling.)
> > Eric
> >
> > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Ah, Eric, got it now. I was stuck on the misapprehension that you
> meant
> > > to roll it on the mast with the snotter and boom in place, hence
> > > the "slot" in the sail. Yeah, wrap, cut, fit grommet(s) - why not
> > > indeed! Not as quick as a brail, but better reefed "streamlining"
> about
> > > the mast, and furling.
> > >
> > > Graeme
> > >
> > > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "eohiggins" <eohiggins@> wrote:
> > > So here's my idea, I am
> > > > going to make up a BW1 sail out of a tarp or an old sail, wrap
> enough
> > > turns around the
> > > > mast to shorten sail and then -- horror of horrors -- cut a
> hole
> > > right through the wraps
> > > > to the mast to attach the snotter!
> > > > That's the basic idea. It'll need a strong padeye on the
> mast for
> > > the snotter instead of
> > > > tieing around the mast. And I'll put slightly oval grommets
> around
> > > the holes in the sail to
> > > > stop them from spreading. And Bob's your uncle, that's it!
> > >
> >
>
It should work with a taper no problem. Model it? - Bill
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "eohiggins" <eohiggins@...> wrote:
>
> Hi, Graeme: I'm currently thinking of doing away with grommets and
reinforcing the slits
> in the sail with buttonhome stitching through a reinforcing tape.
> There won't be any strain at all on the buttonholes, the wraps
around the mast will do all
> of that. The buttonholes should hold the slits in the sail nearly
closed when not in use. I
> hope!
> The other consideration is that the mast will have to be the same
effective diameter all
> the way up. Either a pipe shape like a Laser mast or something
necked down fore and aft
> at the partners and necked athwartships at the top like the old
Brazilian pine Finn class
> masts. Otherwise the wraps won't come out even.
> Sorry for the delay in answering, I've been cycling around
Hawaii. ( Not sorry for the
> cycling.)
> Eric
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@>
wrote:
> >
> > Ah, Eric, got it now. I was stuck on the misapprehension that you
meant
> > to roll it on the mast with the snotter and boom in place, hence
> > the "slot" in the sail. Yeah, wrap, cut, fit grommet(s) - why not
> > indeed! Not as quick as a brail, but better reefed "streamlining"
about
> > the mast, and furling.
> >
> > Graeme
> >
> > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "eohiggins" <eohiggins@> wrote:
> > So here's my idea, I am
> > > going to make up a BW1 sail out of a tarp or an old sail, wrap
enough
> > turns around the
> > > mast to shorten sail and then -- horror of horrors -- cut a
hole
> > right through the wraps
> > > to the mast to attach the snotter!
> > > That's the basic idea. It'll need a strong padeye on the
mast for
> > the snotter instead of
> > > tieing around the mast. And I'll put slightly oval grommets
around
> > the holes in the sail to
> > > stop them from spreading. And Bob's your uncle, that's it!
> >
>
Hi, Graeme: I'm currently thinking of doing away with grommets and reinforcing the slits
in the sail with buttonhome stitching through a reinforcing tape.
There won't be any strain at all on the buttonholes, the wraps around the mast will do all
of that. The buttonholes should hold the slits in the sail nearly closed when not in use. I
hope!
The other consideration is that the mast will have to be the same effective diameter all
the way up. Either a pipe shape like a Laser mast or something necked down fore and aft
at the partners and necked athwartships at the top like the old Brazilian pine Finn class
masts. Otherwise the wraps won't come out even.
Sorry for the delay in answering, I've been cycling around Hawaii. ( Not sorry for the
cycling.)
Eric
in the sail with buttonhome stitching through a reinforcing tape.
There won't be any strain at all on the buttonholes, the wraps around the mast will do all
of that. The buttonholes should hold the slits in the sail nearly closed when not in use. I
hope!
The other consideration is that the mast will have to be the same effective diameter all
the way up. Either a pipe shape like a Laser mast or something necked down fore and aft
at the partners and necked athwartships at the top like the old Brazilian pine Finn class
masts. Otherwise the wraps won't come out even.
Sorry for the delay in answering, I've been cycling around Hawaii. ( Not sorry for the
cycling.)
Eric
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...> wrote:
>
> Ah, Eric, got it now. I was stuck on the misapprehension that you meant
> to roll it on the mast with the snotter and boom in place, hence
> the "slot" in the sail. Yeah, wrap, cut, fit grommet(s) - why not
> indeed! Not as quick as a brail, but better reefed "streamlining" about
> the mast, and furling.
>
> Graeme
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "eohiggins" <eohiggins@> wrote:
> So here's my idea, I am
> > going to make up a BW1 sail out of a tarp or an old sail, wrap enough
> turns around the
> > mast to shorten sail and then -- horror of horrors -- cut a hole
> right through the wraps
> > to the mast to attach the snotter!
> > That's the basic idea. It'll need a strong padeye on the mast for
> the snotter instead of
> > tieing around the mast. And I'll put slightly oval grommets around
> the holes in the sail to
> > stop them from spreading. And Bob's your uncle, that's it!
>
A work in progress, and getting slower all the time, but close now!
Greg
Greg
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Feller" <chrisbfeller@...> wrote:
>
> Hey Greg,
> Have you ever had your Scram Pram out sailing? I never did
> see a sailing report. How do you like it?
>
> Chris Feller
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Greg Flemming" <greg@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Graeme
> >
> > Pity they wont be in Hobart, would love to take the time and money to
> > take a boat over on the boat (if you know what I mean) but also the
> > time is a factor in any case so just going to fly down after work on
> > Friday and fly back Sunday afternoon, so, literally, a flying visit!
> > But I'll take lots of photos and send something afterwards to Chuck
> > at Duckworks which I did for the last Sydney Festival and which he
> > put on Duckworks.
> >
> > Speaking of Lexan and Plexiglass for Birdwatcher boats, I went with
> > Plexi on my Scram Pram because the guy at the plastics place advised
> > that Plexi is more scratch resistant than the more wizbang expensive
> > stuff and that was good enough for me. The other thing was that I
> > could afford to go with thicker material and AllPlastics at Chatswood
> > cut it all to the shapes I gave them. I did patterns for the end
> > windows which were more complicated and they were all done just right.
> >
> > I also wanted a tinted product as I thought that would look better
> > and I wanted to imitate the light green tint as used on Halvorsen
> > cruisers etc. (1950s American cars too!) Very happy with the
> > results, too.
> >
> > I'll check the bill when I get back to Sydney and give an idea of the
> > cost. The stuff waas made in Indonesia as I remember.
> >
> >
> > Greg
> >
> > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Greg,
> > >
> > > I think it referred mainly to SA, but, who knows, they may take her
> > > there.
> > >
> > > Hey, have fun in Hobart (how could you not?). Take lots of photos!
> > Will
> > > you be taking one of your boats over?
> > >
> > > Graeme
> > >
> > >
> > > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Greg Flemming" <greg@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi Graeme
> > > >
> > > > Showing the boat "down south" does that mean at the Hobart
> > Fistival
> > > > in early Feb? - hope so, 'cause I'll be there!
> > >
> >
>
Ah, Eric, got it now. I was stuck on the misapprehension that you meant
to roll it on the mast with the snotter and boom in place, hence
the "slot" in the sail. Yeah, wrap, cut, fit grommet(s) - why not
indeed! Not as quick as a brail, but better reefed "streamlining" about
the mast, and furling.
Graeme
to roll it on the mast with the snotter and boom in place, hence
the "slot" in the sail. Yeah, wrap, cut, fit grommet(s) - why not
indeed! Not as quick as a brail, but better reefed "streamlining" about
the mast, and furling.
Graeme
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "eohiggins" <eohiggins@...> wrote:
So here's my idea, I am
> going to make up a BW1 sail out of a tarp or an old sail, wrap enough
turns around the
> mast to shorten sail and then -- horror of horrors -- cut a hole
right through the wraps
> to the mast to attach the snotter!
> That's the basic idea. It'll need a strong padeye on the mast for
the snotter instead of
> tieing around the mast. And I'll put slightly oval grommets around
the holes in the sail to
> stop them from spreading. And Bob's your uncle, that's it!
http://marina.fortunecity.com/breakwater/274/1997/1121/index.htm
A motor mount at mid-page. I think this is what Ian and Robyn went
with on their "Dawn Song" too.
A motor mount at mid-page. I think this is what Ian and Robyn went
with on their "Dawn Song" too.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "mason smith" <masonsmith@...> wrote:
SNIP
> One final point, about the motor. You do not need anything like
so complicated a construction for a motor on a Birdwatcher as is
shown in BW 2. Ron Mueller installed a mount on the first BW built
(so much for Phil's intentions!) and it was elegantly simple, just a
2 x 8 sticking in through the port side just fwd (or aft) of the
secondary steering axis, and glued to the baffle there. Made just
long enough outside to hold the clamp, and let the motor steer a bit
and be reversed in one direction only, and tilt up.
> I hardly ever used the motor, myself, the oars being much
handier for maneuvering in close quarters when docking, etc. But I
felt it added to versatility, security, etc, for I think it's too
facile simply to say if the wind ain't blowing, rowing is all you
need, and if it is, why row? Exactly what I have said, in effect, and
in print; but so it goes . . . Mason
Hey Greg,
Have you ever had your Scram Pram out sailing? I never did
see a sailing report. How do you like it?
Chris Feller
Have you ever had your Scram Pram out sailing? I never did
see a sailing report. How do you like it?
Chris Feller
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Greg Flemming" <greg@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Graeme
>
> Pity they wont be in Hobart, would love to take the time and money to
> take a boat over on the boat (if you know what I mean) but also the
> time is a factor in any case so just going to fly down after work on
> Friday and fly back Sunday afternoon, so, literally, a flying visit!
> But I'll take lots of photos and send something afterwards to Chuck
> at Duckworks which I did for the last Sydney Festival and which he
> put on Duckworks.
>
> Speaking of Lexan and Plexiglass for Birdwatcher boats, I went with
> Plexi on my Scram Pram because the guy at the plastics place advised
> that Plexi is more scratch resistant than the more wizbang expensive
> stuff and that was good enough for me. The other thing was that I
> could afford to go with thicker material and AllPlastics at Chatswood
> cut it all to the shapes I gave them. I did patterns for the end
> windows which were more complicated and they were all done just right.
>
> I also wanted a tinted product as I thought that would look better
> and I wanted to imitate the light green tint as used on Halvorsen
> cruisers etc. (1950s American cars too!) Very happy with the
> results, too.
>
> I'll check the bill when I get back to Sydney and give an idea of the
> cost. The stuff waas made in Indonesia as I remember.
>
>
> Greg
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Greg,
> >
> > I think it referred mainly to SA, but, who knows, they may take her
> > there.
> >
> > Hey, have fun in Hobart (how could you not?). Take lots of photos!
> Will
> > you be taking one of your boats over?
> >
> > Graeme
> >
> >
> > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Greg Flemming" <greg@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Graeme
> > >
> > > Showing the boat "down south" does that mean at the Hobart
> Fistival
> > > in early Feb? - hope so, 'cause I'll be there!
> >
>
Hi Graeme
Pity they wont be in Hobart, would love to take the time and money to
take a boat over on the boat (if you know what I mean) but also the
time is a factor in any case so just going to fly down after work on
Friday and fly back Sunday afternoon, so, literally, a flying visit!
But I'll take lots of photos and send something afterwards to Chuck
at Duckworks which I did for the last Sydney Festival and which he
put on Duckworks.
Speaking of Lexan and Plexiglass for Birdwatcher boats, I went with
Plexi on my Scram Pram because the guy at the plastics place advised
that Plexi is more scratch resistant than the more wizbang expensive
stuff and that was good enough for me. The other thing was that I
could afford to go with thicker material and AllPlastics at Chatswood
cut it all to the shapes I gave them. I did patterns for the end
windows which were more complicated and they were all done just right.
I also wanted a tinted product as I thought that would look better
and I wanted to imitate the light green tint as used on Halvorsen
cruisers etc. (1950s American cars too!) Very happy with the
results, too.
I'll check the bill when I get back to Sydney and give an idea of the
cost. The stuff waas made in Indonesia as I remember.
Greg
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
wrote:
Pity they wont be in Hobart, would love to take the time and money to
take a boat over on the boat (if you know what I mean) but also the
time is a factor in any case so just going to fly down after work on
Friday and fly back Sunday afternoon, so, literally, a flying visit!
But I'll take lots of photos and send something afterwards to Chuck
at Duckworks which I did for the last Sydney Festival and which he
put on Duckworks.
Speaking of Lexan and Plexiglass for Birdwatcher boats, I went with
Plexi on my Scram Pram because the guy at the plastics place advised
that Plexi is more scratch resistant than the more wizbang expensive
stuff and that was good enough for me. The other thing was that I
could afford to go with thicker material and AllPlastics at Chatswood
cut it all to the shapes I gave them. I did patterns for the end
windows which were more complicated and they were all done just right.
I also wanted a tinted product as I thought that would look better
and I wanted to imitate the light green tint as used on Halvorsen
cruisers etc. (1950s American cars too!) Very happy with the
results, too.
I'll check the bill when I get back to Sydney and give an idea of the
cost. The stuff waas made in Indonesia as I remember.
Greg
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
wrote:
>Will
> Greg,
>
> I think it referred mainly to SA, but, who knows, they may take her
> there.
>
> Hey, have fun in Hobart (how could you not?). Take lots of photos!
> you be taking one of your boats over?Fistival
>
> Graeme
>
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Greg Flemming" <greg@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Graeme
> >
> > Showing the boat "down south" does that mean at the Hobart
> > in early Feb? - hope so, 'cause I'll be there!
>
Greg,
I think it referred mainly to SA, but, who knows, they may take her
there.
Hey, have fun in Hobart (how could you not?). Take lots of photos! Will
you be taking one of your boats over?
Graeme
I think it referred mainly to SA, but, who knows, they may take her
there.
Hey, have fun in Hobart (how could you not?). Take lots of photos! Will
you be taking one of your boats over?
Graeme
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Greg Flemming" <greg@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Graeme
>
> Showing the boat "down south" does that mean at the Hobart Fistival
> in early Feb? - hope so, 'cause I'll be there!
Mason here---
I never had a condensation problem in BW 1, and my reaction to BW 2 has been skeptical as to many features. Quite happy to hear that folks like the sponsons, as Susanne calls the widening aft. I didn't think I'd like the steering setup, one principle being that you are going to want to sail that boat standing up or perched aft some way, when in close quarters, and i thought it might be even more awkward to do so in 2 than in 1, with the vertical after windows on the cabin.
My first BW, No 1, may have had condensation troubles before I got her, for she had very checked ply in her sides, and even rot. Her sides was of pretty poor material, I thought, only three-ply, the middle ply much thicker than the others, and she would actually seep through when she was laid over a bit. (I used Glu-vit on her, locally, for that problem. She was not sheathed outside; and by the way that's my vote: sheathe out, for sure; but not in. Paint or varnich well inside, and live with a little checking: it won't be very bad inside. And yeah, pay for better plywood: fir costs you in the finishing more than it saves you in the buying.
Or else learn how boatbuilders on the west coast treat it, with oil, I think, and get good longevity and ease of maintenance, according to Ken Swan.
It seemed to me that the BW 2 insulation would be a lot of fuss for the plus. But one plus would be the channels for water and spills, keeping the pants drier. My boat was made without any limber holes, per the plans. Phil allowed that that might have been a mistake, and I put them in, but I think the main reason for wanting them is to get the boat to drain well when on her trailer. Accordingly I also installed a plug at her low point. In use, it's just as well if any water that comes aboard stays in one bay or another.
One final point, about the motor. You do not need anything like so complicated a construction for a motor on a Birdwatcher as is shown in BW 2. Ron Mueller installed a mount on the first BW built (so much for Phil's intentions!) and it was elegantly simple, just a 2 x 8 sticking in through the port side just fwd (or aft) of the secondary steering axis, and glued to the baffle there. Made just long enough outside to hold the clamp, and let the motor steer a bit and be reversed in one direction only, and tilt up.
I hardly ever used the motor, myself, the oars being much handier for maneuvering in close quarters when docking, etc. But I felt it added to versatility, security, etc, for I think it's too facile simply to say if the wind ain't blowing, rowing is all you need, and if it is, why row? Exactly what I have said, in effect, and in print; but so it goes . . . Mason
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I never had a condensation problem in BW 1, and my reaction to BW 2 has been skeptical as to many features. Quite happy to hear that folks like the sponsons, as Susanne calls the widening aft. I didn't think I'd like the steering setup, one principle being that you are going to want to sail that boat standing up or perched aft some way, when in close quarters, and i thought it might be even more awkward to do so in 2 than in 1, with the vertical after windows on the cabin.
My first BW, No 1, may have had condensation troubles before I got her, for she had very checked ply in her sides, and even rot. Her sides was of pretty poor material, I thought, only three-ply, the middle ply much thicker than the others, and she would actually seep through when she was laid over a bit. (I used Glu-vit on her, locally, for that problem. She was not sheathed outside; and by the way that's my vote: sheathe out, for sure; but not in. Paint or varnich well inside, and live with a little checking: it won't be very bad inside. And yeah, pay for better plywood: fir costs you in the finishing more than it saves you in the buying.
Or else learn how boatbuilders on the west coast treat it, with oil, I think, and get good longevity and ease of maintenance, according to Ken Swan.
It seemed to me that the BW 2 insulation would be a lot of fuss for the plus. But one plus would be the channels for water and spills, keeping the pants drier. My boat was made without any limber holes, per the plans. Phil allowed that that might have been a mistake, and I put them in, but I think the main reason for wanting them is to get the boat to drain well when on her trailer. Accordingly I also installed a plug at her low point. In use, it's just as well if any water that comes aboard stays in one bay or another.
One final point, about the motor. You do not need anything like so complicated a construction for a motor on a Birdwatcher as is shown in BW 2. Ron Mueller installed a mount on the first BW built (so much for Phil's intentions!) and it was elegantly simple, just a 2 x 8 sticking in through the port side just fwd (or aft) of the secondary steering axis, and glued to the baffle there. Made just long enough outside to hold the clamp, and let the motor steer a bit and be reversed in one direction only, and tilt up.
I hardly ever used the motor, myself, the oars being much handier for maneuvering in close quarters when docking, etc. But I felt it added to versatility, security, etc, for I think it's too facile simply to say if the wind ain't blowing, rowing is all you need, and if it is, why row? Exactly what I have said, in effect, and in print; but so it goes . . . Mason
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Thanks, Bob!
I'll look forward to seeing the sailing report on your website.
Jon
I'll look forward to seeing the sailing report on your website.
Jon
> I just got here. I'm usually a little late...
I just got here. I'm usually a little late...
I did enjoy reading the discussion of BW issues, and Eric, it is
great to hear, and see pictures, of your success. I still have a
picture on the shop wall of your BW unfinished, but on the trailer.
This was before you started keeping the BW on the barnacles :-)
But the boat looks good! Thanks for the report on successful sailing
with some bigger waves.
Jon, I have collected my notes together on my sailing experience,
including the story of the "small main," that I added a year ago.
Rather than trying to summarize that now, I will get the notes
posted separately, and report back, hopefully real soon!
On the camping part, I have been out 1 person for a week, feeling the
boat was quite ideal. I will add details of the good stuff, but the
big negative of a long narrow boat is that, if a cover is on the
slot, you crawl a long way after forgetting something. This probably
says more about my organizational abilities than anything else. But,
it emphasizes the need for building shelves, boxes, small cabinets an
the like to keep things where they belong.
The plus side certainly includes the insulation. I think it is worth
the effort. The warmth and dryness is obvious after a night of
dropping temperatures. Any morning sunshine and it heats right up
with all those windows. My experience is in the Pacific NW part of
the US, and we always have to fight morning condensation. I like the
aft deck (BW-2) with the enclosed sides. A lot of stuff can be left
in that area overnight. I do not use the hard covers on the water,
but have a soft Sunbrella cover with wooden hoops to hold it some
above the slot. That works well. The stowage behind the off-
centerboard is useful, but not convenient. Things that need regular
access don't belong there. Whatever you want is on the bottom. But
there is reasonable volume back there. The gutters are very
functional. Be sure to plan an adequate set of limber holes for when
the boat is not level. This is a minor issue around the bulkheads.
I have a Origo non-pressurized heater, that we also use to cook on.
It easily keeps the boat warm.
We have used the boat for two people a number of weekends. For this
length of time, it works fine. There are two 6-1/2 foot long
sleeping spots, and that has been qute adequate for two. Sailing
with two people is the best!
The BW-2 works fine for camping, so long as you look at it that way.
When the rain comes, I sort of like the feel of the area---the view
is extensive. But, it is still a low space, and crawling is needed
because of the length.
The aft deck was added to go with the motor. Unfortunately, the deck
is too high to provide much protection to the motor from a dock.
The helmsman must remember that when the dock is on the starboard
side. I added some extra bracing under the aft deck. It also was a
good spot for a telescoping swim ladder, without which, re-entry to
the boat is impossible (for me at least). That deck does not add a
lot of weight.
What did I forget, besides the sailing part?
Bob
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "adventures_in_astrophotography"
<jon@...> wrote:
I did enjoy reading the discussion of BW issues, and Eric, it is
great to hear, and see pictures, of your success. I still have a
picture on the shop wall of your BW unfinished, but on the trailer.
This was before you started keeping the BW on the barnacles :-)
But the boat looks good! Thanks for the report on successful sailing
with some bigger waves.
Jon, I have collected my notes together on my sailing experience,
including the story of the "small main," that I added a year ago.
Rather than trying to summarize that now, I will get the notes
posted separately, and report back, hopefully real soon!
On the camping part, I have been out 1 person for a week, feeling the
boat was quite ideal. I will add details of the good stuff, but the
big negative of a long narrow boat is that, if a cover is on the
slot, you crawl a long way after forgetting something. This probably
says more about my organizational abilities than anything else. But,
it emphasizes the need for building shelves, boxes, small cabinets an
the like to keep things where they belong.
The plus side certainly includes the insulation. I think it is worth
the effort. The warmth and dryness is obvious after a night of
dropping temperatures. Any morning sunshine and it heats right up
with all those windows. My experience is in the Pacific NW part of
the US, and we always have to fight morning condensation. I like the
aft deck (BW-2) with the enclosed sides. A lot of stuff can be left
in that area overnight. I do not use the hard covers on the water,
but have a soft Sunbrella cover with wooden hoops to hold it some
above the slot. That works well. The stowage behind the off-
centerboard is useful, but not convenient. Things that need regular
access don't belong there. Whatever you want is on the bottom. But
there is reasonable volume back there. The gutters are very
functional. Be sure to plan an adequate set of limber holes for when
the boat is not level. This is a minor issue around the bulkheads.
I have a Origo non-pressurized heater, that we also use to cook on.
It easily keeps the boat warm.
We have used the boat for two people a number of weekends. For this
length of time, it works fine. There are two 6-1/2 foot long
sleeping spots, and that has been qute adequate for two. Sailing
with two people is the best!
The BW-2 works fine for camping, so long as you look at it that way.
When the rain comes, I sort of like the feel of the area---the view
is extensive. But, it is still a low space, and crawling is needed
because of the length.
The aft deck was added to go with the motor. Unfortunately, the deck
is too high to provide much protection to the motor from a dock.
The helmsman must remember that when the dock is on the starboard
side. I added some extra bracing under the aft deck. It also was a
good spot for a telescoping swim ladder, without which, re-entry to
the boat is impossible (for me at least). That deck does not add a
lot of weight.
What did I forget, besides the sailing part?
Bob
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "adventures_in_astrophotography"
<jon@...> wrote:
>initial
> Is anyone aware of any reports on the camping and sailing
> characteristics of BWII, perhaps compared to the original BW? I've
> seen a couple of websites with building reports, but not much about
> actually using the boats. Bob Larkin's site has only a single
> sailing report from over two years ago. If Bob is a member of thisBWII
> group, I'd be interested in hearing more about his experiences.
>
> In particular, I've been wondering if some of the enchancements in
> were worth the extra building effort and weight in the finishedboat.
> It appears that if you build BWII, unless you build with Okume andor
> cedar or spruce, you would lose the capacity for at least one crew
> an equivalent amount of stores if you want to keep her on thedesigned
> waterline. I'd also be interested to hear how the running bowsprithas
> worked out.original
>
> Perhaps Mason can comment on the condensation problem in the
> that led, in part, to the foam insulation in BWII.
>
> Jon Kolb
> www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
>
Mason,
regarding your comments about the BW1 standard mast being a bit much to
handle I'm wondering what you think about the Micro mainmast in
relation to handling it?
How does the Micro mainmast compare to BW1, do you think? I feel the
same about my Micro mainmast, you see.
GregF
regarding your comments about the BW1 standard mast being a bit much to
handle I'm wondering what you think about the Micro mainmast in
relation to handling it?
How does the Micro mainmast compare to BW1, do you think? I feel the
same about my Micro mainmast, you see.
GregF
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "mason smith" <masonsmith@...> wrote:
>
> Mason here, just to say a word against any longer mast than shown for
BW 1. With the standard sail rolled to it and furled, it can be a lot
for even a pretty strong person to step or unstep. It can be too much
for me, at least. Also a word in favor of a simple roller-furling jib,
set flying and tacked down forward on the slope. I'm embarrassed by the
photo of the first BW1 in the WoodenBoat piece where we were reefed,
and the jibstay was way too slack, but it didn't always look like that,
and that jib made the difference, for me, for satisfactory performance
in light air. I'd love to hear how the wraparound reef with holes for
the snotter works out. Why not indeed?
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Mason: I've attached my Birdwatcher mishap picture to your BW album. Eric
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "mason smith" <masonsmith@...> wrote:
>
> Mason here, just to say a word against any longer mast than shown for BW 1. With the
standard sail rolled to it and furled, it can be a lot for even a pretty strong person to step or
unstep. It can be too much for me, at least. Also a word in favor of a simple roller-furling jib,
set flying and tacked down forward on the slope. I'm embarrassed by the photo of the first
BW1 in the WoodenBoat piece where we were reefed, and the jibstay was way too slack, but it
didn't always look like that, and that jib made the difference, for me, for satisfactory
performance in light air. I'd love to hear how the wraparound reef with holes for the snotter
works out. Why not indeed?
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
eohiggins says "We sailed Black Skimmer and used the mizzen instead of the tiller for
steering quite a bit of the time"
Steering by mizzen is my favorite feature of Micro as well. Sitting with your back against the cabin in a blow and steering with a 1/4 inch line with only a couple of pounds of pull on it is a lot of fun.
MylesJ
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
steering quite a bit of the time"
Steering by mizzen is my favorite feature of Micro as well. Sitting with your back against the cabin in a blow and steering with a 1/4 inch line with only a couple of pounds of pull on it is a lot of fun.
MylesJ
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Graaeme: Overnight the answer to your point about air leakage in a roll-up reefing system
has come to me. The line of holes needs a strip of reinforcing which will have buttonholes
sewn into it. No grommets required; and minimal air leakage as a result.
I guess the padeye of the first concept needs to be an eye on a short stalk so the
buttonholes suffer the least stretching.
This exchange is refining my vision really well and I'm more and more confident the
system will work. Sometimes though I do my best thinking when I'm snoring!
Now I lay me down to sleep . . .
Eric
has come to me. The line of holes needs a strip of reinforcing which will have buttonholes
sewn into it. No grommets required; and minimal air leakage as a result.
I guess the padeye of the first concept needs to be an eye on a short stalk so the
buttonholes suffer the least stretching.
This exchange is refining my vision really well and I'm more and more confident the
system will work. Sometimes though I do my best thinking when I'm snoring!
Now I lay me down to sleep . . .
Eric
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "eohiggins" <eohiggins@...> wrote:
>
>
> The slot in the sail needn't be any bigger than the eye fitting on the mast
I plan not to worry . . . Eric
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > I wonder about the slot in the sail that allows the snotter attachment
> > to remain in furling. It might bleed a lot of air - if so perhaps then
> > a velcro'd strip could be stuck over it?
> >
> > Graeme
> >
>
You have a point there John, clearly the jib will have to be handed before the reefing
starts, but still . . . We sailed Black Skimmer and used the mizzen instead of the tiller for
steering quite a bit of the time.
Eric
starts, but still . . . We sailed Black Skimmer and used the mizzen instead of the tiller for
steering quite a bit of the time.
Eric
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "John and Kathy Trussell" <jtrussell2@...> wrote:
. . . Dovekie (a
> factory built Birdwatcher-sort of) . . .
> developed a ferocious lee helm-even with the "bow centerboard" down. This
> experience led me to "cat yawls" and ultimately to a ketch rig. These add
> complexity, but you can shorten sail and maintain a balanced helm. With the
> ketch, I can drop the main completely and sail under jib and mizzen
>
> JohnT
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> graeme19121984
> Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 8:01 PM
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [bolger] Re: Speaking of Birdwatcher
>
>
>
> Nice one Eric. Will your lashing partner be loosened enough, and your
> mast step allow you to turn the mast while still retained by them? I'd
> imagine all you'll have to do is the turning and not battle with the
> supporting.
>
> I wonder about the slot in the sail that allows the snotter attachment
> to remain in furling. It might bleed a lot of air - if so perhaps then
> a velcro'd strip could be stuck over it?
>
> Graeme
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
That gives me an amusing thought, Graeme. If I find the BW1 mast binds in the lashing
(the BW2 doesn't) maybe I'll try casting off the sprit and snotter, haul in the sheet again
and sail around and around until the sail is small enough. I wonder if I'll be able to heave
to well enough in that condition to walk forward and re-attach the snotter and sprit -- it'll
be fun to try.
The slot in the sail needn't be any bigger than the eye fitting on the mast -- inch and a
half by one-quarter or a wee bit more. I plan not to worry until I find its a problem.
Somewhere, one of my nautical ancestors must be turning over in his grave . . . Eric
(the BW2 doesn't) maybe I'll try casting off the sprit and snotter, haul in the sheet again
and sail around and around until the sail is small enough. I wonder if I'll be able to heave
to well enough in that condition to walk forward and re-attach the snotter and sprit -- it'll
be fun to try.
The slot in the sail needn't be any bigger than the eye fitting on the mast -- inch and a
half by one-quarter or a wee bit more. I plan not to worry until I find its a problem.
Somewhere, one of my nautical ancestors must be turning over in his grave . . . Eric
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...> wrote:
>
> Nice one Eric. Will your lashing partner be loosened enough, and your
> mast step allow you to turn the mast while still retained by them? I'd
> imagine all you'll have to do is the turning and not battle with the
> supporting.
>
> I wonder about the slot in the sail that allows the snotter attachment
> to remain in furling. It might bleed a lot of air - if so perhaps then
> a velcro'd strip could be stuck over it?
>
> Graeme
>
What follows may not be strictly applicable, but I once owned a Dovekie (a
factory built Birdwatcher-sort of) with a low aspect ratio leg of mutton
sail. On the one occasion when I found a double reef advisable, the boat
developed a ferocious lee helm-even with the "bow centerboard" down. This
experience led me to "cat yawls" and ultimately to a ketch rig. These add
complexity, but you can shorten sail and maintain a balanced helm. With the
ketch, I can drop the main completely and sail under jib and mizzen
Of course, since you can get away with sailing a Birdwatcher on its ear, the
need to reef should be somewhat reduced..
JohnT
_____
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
graeme19121984
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 8:01 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Speaking of Birdwatcher
Nice one Eric. Will your lashing partner be loosened enough, and your
mast step allow you to turn the mast while still retained by them? I'd
imagine all you'll have to do is the turning and not battle with the
supporting.
I wonder about the slot in the sail that allows the snotter attachment
to remain in furling. It might bleed a lot of air - if so perhaps then
a velcro'd strip could be stuck over it?
Graeme
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
factory built Birdwatcher-sort of) with a low aspect ratio leg of mutton
sail. On the one occasion when I found a double reef advisable, the boat
developed a ferocious lee helm-even with the "bow centerboard" down. This
experience led me to "cat yawls" and ultimately to a ketch rig. These add
complexity, but you can shorten sail and maintain a balanced helm. With the
ketch, I can drop the main completely and sail under jib and mizzen
Of course, since you can get away with sailing a Birdwatcher on its ear, the
need to reef should be somewhat reduced..
JohnT
_____
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
graeme19121984
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 8:01 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Speaking of Birdwatcher
Nice one Eric. Will your lashing partner be loosened enough, and your
mast step allow you to turn the mast while still retained by them? I'd
imagine all you'll have to do is the turning and not battle with the
supporting.
I wonder about the slot in the sail that allows the snotter attachment
to remain in furling. It might bleed a lot of air - if so perhaps then
a velcro'd strip could be stuck over it?
Graeme
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Nice one Eric. Will your lashing partner be loosened enough, and your
mast step allow you to turn the mast while still retained by them? I'd
imagine all you'll have to do is the turning and not battle with the
supporting.
I wonder about the slot in the sail that allows the snotter attachment
to remain in furling. It might bleed a lot of air - if so perhaps then
a velcro'd strip could be stuck over it?
Graeme
mast step allow you to turn the mast while still retained by them? I'd
imagine all you'll have to do is the turning and not battle with the
supporting.
I wonder about the slot in the sail that allows the snotter attachment
to remain in furling. It might bleed a lot of air - if so perhaps then
a velcro'd strip could be stuck over it?
Graeme
Mason here, just to say a word against any longer mast than shown for BW 1. With the standard sail rolled to it and furled, it can be a lot for even a pretty strong person to step or unstep. It can be too much for me, at least. Also a word in favor of a simple roller-furling jib, set flying and tacked down forward on the slope. I'm embarrassed by the photo of the first BW1 in the WoodenBoat piece where we were reefed, and the jibstay was way too slack, but it didn't always look like that, and that jib made the difference, for me, for satisfactory performance in light air. I'd love to hear how the wraparound reef with holes for the snotter works out. Why not indeed?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Hi Graeme
Showing the boat "down south" does that mean at the Hobart Fistival
in early Feb? - hope so, 'cause I'll be there!
GregF
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
wrote:
Showing the boat "down south" does that mean at the Hobart Fistival
in early Feb? - hope so, 'cause I'll be there!
GregF
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
wrote:
>out.
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "eohiggins" <eohiggins@> wrote:
>
> > I worried about the BW2 afterdeck, pointlessly as it turned
> We made a passagepoles.
> > running easily in four-foot moderate conditions under bare
> The significant wavewater
> > was maybe seven feet and those big waves never put a drop of
> on the afterdeck.arrangement
> > I was towing a kayak at the time and had to twitch the tow line
> every really big wave to
> > prevent the kayak from surfing up onto the afterdeck.
> > That's no criticism -- the boat never gave us a single nervous
> moment in those
> > conditions.
>
> Australian Amateur Boat Builder #62, Jul/Aug/Sep/08, had an article
> about a Birdwatcher II. The owners seem stoked on the building and
> sailing performance. They're exhibiting it in shows down south. It
> seems that happening upon Mason's WB article set them off to swap
> their 36' deep keel yacht for the BW type for thin water sailing in
> their advancing years.
>
> [Ian (I've an idea he has written frequently for Cruising Helmsman)
> wrote that he has two CDs available of photos showing construction
> of "Dawn Song"for AU$35, Australian postage inclusive. The photos
> accompanying the article seem quite detailed. He gave an email addy
> for contact (ianatgundy at pacific dot net dot au)]
>
> The afterdeck was left off, perhaps also the foam. Rudder
> may be BW1. From the limited pics accompanying the article, though
> Ian and Robyn's boat looks really good, I must say without the
> afterdeck the original stern lines on BW1 look better to my eye.
>
> Graeme
>
Graeme
I don't feel any need to increase the size of the BW1 mainsail -- my boat is remarkable
for being easily driven, it accelerates away like a dinghy.
I can see needing more if you live in a light-air neighborhood, but I find that enough air
to get steerage way is enough to build up apparent wind sufficiently for a good sailing
experience. (I'm not at the stage of trying to get my boat to plane, however. Ask me in a
year or so!)
Chappell's reefing setup has never appealed to me personally. So here's my idea, I am
going to make up a BW1 sail out of a tarp or an old sail, wrap enough turns around the
mast to shorten sail and then -- horror of horrors -- cut a hole right through the wraps
to the mast to attach the snotter!
That's the basic idea. It'll need a strong padeye on the mast for the snotter instead of
tieing around the mast. And I'll put slightly oval grommets around the holes in the sail to
stop them from spreading. And Bob's your uncle, that's it!
I expect to put a little padding under the sail lacing so I can adjust the position of the
holes. The pad eye will probably have to be on a stainless sleeve like a cranse iron, but
that's no problem.
I've been thinking about this for many months now and I'm damned if I can see why it
won't work.
Can anybody think of a problem I haven't though of?
Eric
ps. I hope cranse iron is the right word -- like the fitting on the end of a bowsprit to
which stays etc. were rigged.
I don't feel any need to increase the size of the BW1 mainsail -- my boat is remarkable
for being easily driven, it accelerates away like a dinghy.
I can see needing more if you live in a light-air neighborhood, but I find that enough air
to get steerage way is enough to build up apparent wind sufficiently for a good sailing
experience. (I'm not at the stage of trying to get my boat to plane, however. Ask me in a
year or so!)
Chappell's reefing setup has never appealed to me personally. So here's my idea, I am
going to make up a BW1 sail out of a tarp or an old sail, wrap enough turns around the
mast to shorten sail and then -- horror of horrors -- cut a hole right through the wraps
to the mast to attach the snotter!
That's the basic idea. It'll need a strong padeye on the mast for the snotter instead of
tieing around the mast. And I'll put slightly oval grommets around the holes in the sail to
stop them from spreading. And Bob's your uncle, that's it!
I expect to put a little padding under the sail lacing so I can adjust the position of the
holes. The pad eye will probably have to be on a stainless sleeve like a cranse iron, but
that's no problem.
I've been thinking about this for many months now and I'm damned if I can see why it
won't work.
Can anybody think of a problem I haven't though of?
Eric
ps. I hope cranse iron is the right word -- like the fitting on the end of a bowsprit to
which stays etc. were rigged.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...> wrote:
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "eohiggins" <eohiggins@> wrote:
> > I love the Solent rig for daysailing, but it is a pain in the
> stern quarters for cruising. I'll
> > do a BW1 rig for cruising so I can wrap the sail tidily around the
> mast.
> > Eric
>
> Eric,
>
> thanks for passing on your experience with the BW.
>
> Re the BW1 rig: couldn't the original BW1 sailplan-version1 mast
> (light construction, as no peak halyard load) be made the few feet
> longer required to fly the bigger BW2, or BW1 sailplan-version2,
> mainsail area? Not these actual mainsails you understand, rather a
> larger BW1 mainsail-version1. Further, because the luff brailing
> won't snag on any attachment such as for a turning block, perhaps the
> BW2, or BW1 sailplan-version2 jib could still be flown set flying?
>
> Also, Chapelle passed on some handy hints (that PCB seems to have
> missed in sailplan-version1, as too Michalak in some of his furnished
> sail plans, btw) in ASSC, p106, about how to reeve the BW1 sailplan-
> version1 type sharpie luff brails in parrallel and not series as
> shown. This ought to make both brailing, and shaking it out again,
> much handier and more reliable.
>
> Increasing the size, and the ease of shaking out the brail would seem
> to answer the main complaints PCB received early on about the
> original BW1 sailplan-version1 sail, yet should retain the original
> objectives concerning ease of raising, striking, and stowing. Jim
> Michalak went for a balanced lug on his own BW to satisfy, evenso the
> sharpie sail should be closer winded with less messin'.
>
> Graeme
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "eohiggins" <eohiggins@...> wrote:
thanks for passing on your experience with the BW.
Re the BW1 rig: couldn't the original BW1 sailplan-version1 mast
(light construction, as no peak halyard load) be made the few feet
longer required to fly the bigger BW2, or BW1 sailplan-version2,
mainsail area? Not these actual mainsails you understand, rather a
larger BW1 mainsail-version1. Further, because the luff brailing
won't snag on any attachment such as for a turning block, perhaps the
BW2, or BW1 sailplan-version2 jib could still be flown set flying?
Also, Chapelle passed on some handy hints (that PCB seems to have
missed in sailplan-version1, as too Michalak in some of his furnished
sail plans, btw) in ASSC, p106, about how to reeve the BW1 sailplan-
version1 type sharpie luff brails in parrallel and not series as
shown. This ought to make both brailing, and shaking it out again,
much handier and more reliable.
Increasing the size, and the ease of shaking out the brail would seem
to answer the main complaints PCB received early on about the
original BW1 sailplan-version1 sail, yet should retain the original
objectives concerning ease of raising, striking, and stowing. Jim
Michalak went for a balanced lug on his own BW to satisfy, evenso the
sharpie sail should be closer winded with less messin'.
Graeme
> I love the Solent rig for daysailing, but it is a pain in thestern quarters for cruising. I'll
> do a BW1 rig for cruising so I can wrap the sail tidily around themast.
> EricEric,
thanks for passing on your experience with the BW.
Re the BW1 rig: couldn't the original BW1 sailplan-version1 mast
(light construction, as no peak halyard load) be made the few feet
longer required to fly the bigger BW2, or BW1 sailplan-version2,
mainsail area? Not these actual mainsails you understand, rather a
larger BW1 mainsail-version1. Further, because the luff brailing
won't snag on any attachment such as for a turning block, perhaps the
BW2, or BW1 sailplan-version2 jib could still be flown set flying?
Also, Chapelle passed on some handy hints (that PCB seems to have
missed in sailplan-version1, as too Michalak in some of his furnished
sail plans, btw) in ASSC, p106, about how to reeve the BW1 sailplan-
version1 type sharpie luff brails in parrallel and not series as
shown. This ought to make both brailing, and shaking it out again,
much handier and more reliable.
Increasing the size, and the ease of shaking out the brail would seem
to answer the main complaints PCB received early on about the
original BW1 sailplan-version1 sail, yet should retain the original
objectives concerning ease of raising, striking, and stowing. Jim
Michalak went for a balanced lug on his own BW to satisfy, evenso the
sharpie sail should be closer winded with less messin'.
Graeme
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "eohiggins" <eohiggins@...> wrote:
about a Birdwatcher II. The owners seem stoked on the building and
sailing performance. They're exhibiting it in shows down south. It
seems that happening upon Mason's WB article set them off to swap
their 36' deep keel yacht for the BW type for thin water sailing in
their advancing years.
[Ian (I've an idea he has written frequently for Cruising Helmsman)
wrote that he has two CDs available of photos showing construction
of "Dawn Song"for AU$35, Australian postage inclusive. The photos
accompanying the article seem quite detailed. He gave an email addy
for contact (ianatgundy at pacific dot net dot au)]
The afterdeck was left off, perhaps also the foam. Rudder arrangement
may be BW1. From the limited pics accompanying the article, though
Ian and Robyn's boat looks really good, I must say without the
afterdeck the original stern lines on BW1 look better to my eye.
Graeme
> I worried about the BW2 afterdeck, pointlessly as it turned out.We made a passage
> running easily in four-foot moderate conditions under bare poles.The significant wave
> was maybe seven feet and those big waves never put a drop of wateron the afterdeck.
> I was towing a kayak at the time and had to twitch the tow lineevery really big wave to
> prevent the kayak from surfing up onto the afterdeck.moment in those
> That's no criticism -- the boat never gave us a single nervous
> conditions.Australian Amateur Boat Builder #62, Jul/Aug/Sep/08, had an article
about a Birdwatcher II. The owners seem stoked on the building and
sailing performance. They're exhibiting it in shows down south. It
seems that happening upon Mason's WB article set them off to swap
their 36' deep keel yacht for the BW type for thin water sailing in
their advancing years.
[Ian (I've an idea he has written frequently for Cruising Helmsman)
wrote that he has two CDs available of photos showing construction
of "Dawn Song"for AU$35, Australian postage inclusive. The photos
accompanying the article seem quite detailed. He gave an email addy
for contact (ianatgundy at pacific dot net dot au)]
The afterdeck was left off, perhaps also the foam. Rudder arrangement
may be BW1. From the limited pics accompanying the article, though
Ian and Robyn's boat looks really good, I must say without the
afterdeck the original stern lines on BW1 look better to my eye.
Graeme
Bob Larkin's building project was exemplary, take a look at the details at
http://www.proaxis.com/~boblark/bw2_main.htm
He did a wonderful job of the Bolger steering for BW2 and it may work for him. My Bolger
steering as drawn is still sitting in a dusty corner of the shop. I've extended by rudder
post through the deck topped by a flag standard. An 'emergency' tiller slips over the top
and I use it every time I go daysailing. There's a simple rope around the bottom of the
afterdeck and led across the companionway for cruising in the rain.
I worried about the BW2 afterdeck, pointlessly as it turned out. We made a passage
running easily in four-foot moderate conditions under bare poles. The significant wave
was maybe seven feet and those big waves never put a drop of water on the afterdeck.
I was towing a kayak at the time and had to twitch the tow line every really big wave to
prevent the kayak from surfing up onto the afterdeck.
That's no criticism -- the boat never gave us a single nervous moment in those
conditions.
I love the Solent rig for daysailing, but it is a pain in the stern quarters for cruising. I'll
do a BW1 rig for cruising so I can wrap the sail tidily around the mast.
Eric
http://www.proaxis.com/~boblark/bw2_main.htm
He did a wonderful job of the Bolger steering for BW2 and it may work for him. My Bolger
steering as drawn is still sitting in a dusty corner of the shop. I've extended by rudder
post through the deck topped by a flag standard. An 'emergency' tiller slips over the top
and I use it every time I go daysailing. There's a simple rope around the bottom of the
afterdeck and led across the companionway for cruising in the rain.
I worried about the BW2 afterdeck, pointlessly as it turned out. We made a passage
running easily in four-foot moderate conditions under bare poles. The significant wave
was maybe seven feet and those big waves never put a drop of water on the afterdeck.
I was towing a kayak at the time and had to twitch the tow line every really big wave to
prevent the kayak from surfing up onto the afterdeck.
That's no criticism -- the boat never gave us a single nervous moment in those
conditions.
I love the Solent rig for daysailing, but it is a pain in the stern quarters for cruising. I'll
do a BW1 rig for cruising so I can wrap the sail tidily around the mast.
Eric
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...> wrote:
>
> > In particular, I've been wondering if some of the enchancements in BWII
>
>
> The BW2 camping enhancement that has intrigued me is the foam layer on
> the inside bottom (with the spill gutter). Liquid spills (and
> condensation) in the BW1 drain to the sleeping area, but in BW2 they
> are kept away from the gear better kept dry.
>
> In particular, I've been wondering if some of the enchancements in BWIIThe BW2 camping enhancement that has intrigued me is the foam layer on
the inside bottom (with the spill gutter). Liquid spills (and
condensation) in the BW1 drain to the sleeping area, but in BW2 they
are kept away from the gear better kept dry.
Is anyone aware of any reports on the camping and sailing
characteristics of BWII, perhaps compared to the original BW? I've
seen a couple of websites with building reports, but not much about
actually using the boats. Bob Larkin's site has only a single initial
sailing report from over two years ago. If Bob is a member of this
group, I'd be interested in hearing more about his experiences.
In particular, I've been wondering if some of the enchancements in BWII
were worth the extra building effort and weight in the finished boat.
It appears that if you build BWII, unless you build with Okume and
cedar or spruce, you would lose the capacity for at least one crew or
an equivalent amount of stores if you want to keep her on the designed
waterline. I'd also be interested to hear how the running bowsprit has
worked out.
Perhaps Mason can comment on the condensation problem in the original
that led, in part, to the foam insulation in BWII.
Jon Kolb
www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
characteristics of BWII, perhaps compared to the original BW? I've
seen a couple of websites with building reports, but not much about
actually using the boats. Bob Larkin's site has only a single initial
sailing report from over two years ago. If Bob is a member of this
group, I'd be interested in hearing more about his experiences.
In particular, I've been wondering if some of the enchancements in BWII
were worth the extra building effort and weight in the finished boat.
It appears that if you build BWII, unless you build with Okume and
cedar or spruce, you would lose the capacity for at least one crew or
an equivalent amount of stores if you want to keep her on the designed
waterline. I'd also be interested to hear how the running bowsprit has
worked out.
Perhaps Mason can comment on the condensation problem in the original
that led, in part, to the foam insulation in BWII.
Jon Kolb
www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm