Re: Ply to glass or not to glass

Ah...Chatham the fog capital of the United States.

Very familiar with homes that never really dry out, and fog coming
into the house through the open windows. Funny thing was that the
Diablo I had did well in those conditions, it was when I moved it
inland and it sat under the oak trees that the rot moved much quicker
than I did. The 18' skiff gets its coatings of glass and epoxy once
the ice is out from in front of the garage.

David Jost

>
>      Speaking about moisture inside boat hulls, I can show you the

World's best source right here on good old Cape Cod.  One reason I
avoid Cypress in my work!

>
> --- On Wed, 1/28/09, Jon & Wanda(Tink) <windyjon@...> wrote:
>
> From: Jon & Wanda(Tink) <windyjon@...>
> Subject: [bolger] Re: Ply to glass or not to glass
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Wednesday, January 28, 2009, 5:21 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
> In Wasington upside down would trap riseing wet air and condensation.
> Right side up with a tarp the same thing. Eather way moss dose grow on
> a rolling stone here.
>
> Jon
>
> So many Jons the hookers will start comeing around soon.
>
> --- In bolger@yahoogroups. com, "adventures_ in_astrophotogra phy"
> <jon@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Jon,
> >
> > > There is also the part where what works in Texas may not work in
> > > Washington.
> >
> > Agreed. Only one of my boats is glassed inside and I've had no
> > problems with the others. However, none of my boats are in the water
> > more than part of a day, and most of them are stored upside down when
> > I'm done using them. Perhaps more importantly, my boats live in a
> very
> > dry climate with lots of wind. I can't see that spending the time,
> > money, and effort to glass the inside of them would be of any benefit
> > in my situation.
> >
> > Jon
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

I had a 31 LOA wooden cutter, plank on frame. The previous owner had
replaced the original decks (teak strip over ply) with plywood, they
were glassed on the exterior, unfinished on the interior. I started
in on painting the interior, just primer and top coat. I did not
progress very quickly (working on my back) and got three sections
done before being distracted to other things. In less than a year it
had all checked quite badly. I sanded off all that I had done, and
started in with the sealer. It takes hours to do a section because
once it soaks in you have to do it again. This is KEY! Stop short
and it will fail. It would take a whole day just to process some 8
or 10 square feet. Basically once I got to the end of the sections I
was doing it was time to start again. I kept going until it started
to dry shiny on the surface instead of soak in and go flat. Once
that dried I sanded again to get it smooth and put a final sealer
coat on. Then primer, then top coats. I think I did three top coats,
maybe only two in some places. This held up for some 10 years so
far, never checked again (I had the boat about 16 years, gone this
last spring).

The essence of it is you're turning that surface ply to a
solid "plastic" wood-fibre-filled layer. You might be able to do as
well with epoxy if you used very thin stuff, like CPES (you know of
that brand?) but the fumes would have been intolerable in my
situation, and it would have been big time expensive. And for all
that, all that could be hoped for is it would work as well, for it
surely wouldn't work better than "never failed".

But the common "regular" epoxies are too thick to soak in enough,
and generally cure too quickly to be able to keep applying enough to
really saturate the wood.

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "David" <arbordg@...> wrote:
>
> I'm curious how much history you have with this product. If it'd
work
> as you say, a lot of folks would be much happier using fir marine
> plywood for boatbuilding. It'd then be a straight tradeoff between
the
> increased weight (compared to occoume) vs. the reduced cost.
However,
> I know of one builder who tried it for this purpose - and found it
did
> not stop the checking. I wonder if, perhaps, he wasn't generous
enough
> with the application.
>
> Tell us more, please.
>
> Cheers,
> David G
> Harbor Woodworks
>
> *********************
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "maicorick3" <rickf@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Yes. No question. Fir plywood will check unless glassed.
> > >
> >
> >
> > Not entirely true. The plywood can be sealed first. A product
like
> > Interlux Sealer works (I've used this exact stuff).
> >
> >http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?
pid=883
> >

Here the problem is mostly water that collects under a poorly set tarp. I
keep a larger boat in the water during the summer. I will mostly trailer sail
this boat to use on two week trips to Cayo costa, the Texas 200, Florida
120... Martha Jane isn't bad to tow behind my 6 cyl pickup but gas would be better
towing something weighing 600 pounds than 3000. Prior I would use my Bolger
Sweet Pea. She has served me well for a dozen years. I plan to tow Martha
Jane to Florida Friday for a 10 day cruise then store her there for a spring
break trip and maybe the summer. Thanks for the discussion, i have work to do


In a message dated 1/28/2009 5:03:59 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
sar207@...writes:




Speaking about moisture inside boat hulls, I can show you the World's best
source right here on good old Cape Cod. One reason I avoid Cypress in my
work!

--- On Wed, 1/28/09, Jon & Wanda(Tink) <_windyjon@..._
(mailto:windyjon@...) > wrote:

From: Jon & Wanda(Tink) <_windyjon@..._ (mailto:windyjon@...) >
Subject: [bolger] Re: Ply to glass or not to glass
To:_bolger@..._ (mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com)
Date: Wednesday, January 28, 2009, 5:21 AM

In Wasington upside down would trap riseing wet air and condensation.
Right side up with a tarp the same thing. Eather way moss dose grow on
a rolling stone here.

Jon

So many Jons the hookers will start comeing around soon.

--- In bolger@yahoogroups. com, "adventures_ in_astrophotogra phy"
<jon@...> wrote:

>
> Hi Jon,
>
> > There is also the part where what works in Texas may not work in
> > Washington.
>
> Agreed. Only one of my boats is glassed inside and I've had no
> problems with the others. However, none of my boats are in the water
> more than part of a day, and most of them are stored upside down when
> I'm done using them. Perhaps more importantly, my boats live in a

very

> dry climate with lots of wind. I can't see that spending the time,
> money, and effort to glass the inside of them would be of any benefit
> in my situation.
>
> Jon
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Speaking about moisture inside boat hulls, I can show you the World's best source right here on good old Cape Cod.  One reason I avoid Cypress in my work!

--- On Wed, 1/28/09, Jon & Wanda(Tink) <windyjon@...> wrote:

From: Jon & Wanda(Tink) <windyjon@...>
Subject: [bolger] Re: Ply to glass or not to glass
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, January 28, 2009, 5:21 AM






In Wasington upside down would trap riseing wet air and condensation.
Right side up with a tarp the same thing. Eather way moss dose grow on
a rolling stone here.

Jon

So many Jons the hookers will start comeing around soon.

--- In bolger@yahoogroups. com, "adventures_ in_astrophotogra phy"
<jon@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Jon,
>
> > There is also the part where what works in Texas may not work in
> > Washington.
>
> Agreed. Only one of my boats is glassed inside and I've had no
> problems with the others. However, none of my boats are in the water
> more than part of a day, and most of them are stored upside down when
> I'm done using them. Perhaps more importantly, my boats live in a
very
> dry climate with lots of wind. I can't see that spending the time,
> money, and effort to glass the inside of them would be of any benefit
> in my situation.
>
> Jon
>


















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

This is obviously a huge factor. I live the the Chicago area. I have
had boats outside uncovered for over 10 years that are only suffering
from checking (cheap construction plywood). No fungus and no rot. I
think this is due to the fact that we have fairly dry summers and our
winters are very cold and long. I've left pieces of pine out in the
yard on the ground for many years with no signs of rot. Just a little
discolored from sun and water damage.

Chris Feller

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "David" <arbordg@...> wrote:
>
> Jon,
>
> That's for sure. Let's be geographically accurate though. I thought
> you lived in a suburb of Portland, OR???<G>
>
> Seriously, moss and fungus grows on anything that doesn't move around
> here, and some things that do. We keep our boat on a trailer, outside,
> and it takes some careful tarping and venting to keep it from rotting
> away as we look out the window. Other climates... other problems.
>
> Cheers,
> David G
>
> "The cure for boredom is curiosity. There is no cure for curiosity" --
> Dorothy Parker
>
> ************
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jon & Wanda(Tink)" <windyjon@> wrote:
> >
> > In Wasington upside down would trap riseing wet air and condensation.
> > Right side up with a tarp the same thing. Eather way moss dose
grow on
> > a rolling stone here.
> >
> > Jon
> >
> > So many Jons the hookers will start comeing around soon.
> >
> > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "adventures_in_astrophotography"
> > <jon@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Jon,
> > >
> > > > There is also the part where what works in Texas may not work in
> > > > Washington.
> > >
> > > Agreed. Only one of my boats is glassed inside and I've had no
> > > problems with the others. However, none of my boats are in the
water
> > > more than part of a day, and most of them are stored upside down
when
> > > I'm done using them. Perhaps more importantly, my boats live in a
> > very
> > > dry climate with lots of wind. I can't see that spending the time,
> > > money, and effort to glass the inside of them would be of any
benefit
> > > in my situation.
> > >
> > > Jon
> > >
> >
>

Sounds a bit like G W B
Sorry, I just couldn't resist
Darrell

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jon & Wanda(Tink)" <windyjon@...> wrote:
>
> There is also the part where what works in Texas may not work in
> Washington.
>
> Jon
>

Jon,

That's for sure. Let's be geographically accurate though. I thought
you lived in a suburb of Portland, OR???<G>

Seriously, moss and fungus grows on anything that doesn't move around
here, and some things that do. We keep our boat on a trailer, outside,
and it takes some careful tarping and venting to keep it from rotting
away as we look out the window. Other climates... other problems.

Cheers,
David G

"The cure for boredom is curiosity. There is no cure for curiosity" --
Dorothy Parker

************

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jon & Wanda(Tink)" <windyjon@...> wrote:
>
> In Wasington upside down would trap riseing wet air and condensation.
> Right side up with a tarp the same thing. Eather way moss dose grow on
> a rolling stone here.
>
> Jon
>
> So many Jons the hookers will start comeing around soon.
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "adventures_in_astrophotography"
> <jon@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Jon,
> >
> > > There is also the part where what works in Texas may not work in
> > > Washington.
> >
> > Agreed. Only one of my boats is glassed inside and I've had no
> > problems with the others. However, none of my boats are in the water
> > more than part of a day, and most of them are stored upside down when
> > I'm done using them. Perhaps more importantly, my boats live in a
> very
> > dry climate with lots of wind. I can't see that spending the time,
> > money, and effort to glass the inside of them would be of any benefit
> > in my situation.
> >
> > Jon
> >
>

In Wasington upside down would trap riseing wet air and condensation.
Right side up with a tarp the same thing. Eather way moss dose grow on
a rolling stone here.

Jon

So many Jons the hookers will start comeing around soon.

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "adventures_in_astrophotography"
<jon@...> wrote:

>
> Hi Jon,
>
> > There is also the part where what works in Texas may not work in
> > Washington.
>
> Agreed. Only one of my boats is glassed inside and I've had no
> problems with the others. However, none of my boats are in the water
> more than part of a day, and most of them are stored upside down when
> I'm done using them. Perhaps more importantly, my boats live in a

very

> dry climate with lots of wind. I can't see that spending the time,
> money, and effort to glass the inside of them would be of any benefit
> in my situation.
>
> Jon
>

Hi Jon,

> There is also the part where what works in Texas may not work in
> Washington.

Agreed. Only one of my boats is glassed inside and I've had no
problems with the others. However, none of my boats are in the water
more than part of a day, and most of them are stored upside down when
I'm done using them. Perhaps more importantly, my boats live in a very
dry climate with lots of wind. I can't see that spending the time,
money, and effort to glass the inside of them would be of any benefit
in my situation.

Jon

The thing you've got to remember is that things will be fine as long
as wood is perfectly sealed. It will also be reasonably OK if it is
left perfectly open and gets lots of ventilation.

The very worst condition is, unfortunately, the most common one: that
is when the wood is ALMOST completely sealed against the elements.
That is the lethal one.

Dave

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Feller" <chrisbfeller@...> wrote:
>
> I think we have once again shown that there is no one correct answer
> to this question. There are pluses and minus's to each of these
> approaches. One thing that we all have in common though is that we
> are each very happy with the approach that we take. This is great
> news. That means that you can do it the way you want to and it will
> work and you'll probably be happy with the results. There are always
> trade offs. Make a choice and be happy.
>
> Chris Feller
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jon & Wanda(Tink)" <windyjon@> wrote:
> >
> > Fir plywood will always check the glue in all plywood is not 100%
> > coverage so there is places in all plywood where water setting in the
> > bilge can soak through to the outside through all layers. The best
> > names with the longest track records in amateur boat building, sails
> > of plans and kits all recomend encapsolation. With lower grades and
> > most marine grade fir that includes glassing to prevent checking.
> > Paint alone will not prevent checking on a boat that gets water in
> > the bilge even if it is only day used with a few several day trips a
> > year. It is best to keep water out rather then try to let it dry out.
> > Good news 3 Oz. glass wraped up on to sides of frames will do as a
> > after thought and encapsolate the frames. The Interlux product will
> > not prevent as it says "help resist" with out mention of type of
> > plywood. It also has some realy nasty VOC isues. Light sand
> > thoroughly for bond and go for it with light glass. Do you realy want
> > to depend on paint in your bilge that was not made for submersion. To
> > prevent water from splash or a hole in the tarp over it from soaking
> > in at the easyest spot then maybe swelling the ply trust epoxy over
> > paint. To keep fir ply from ever checking use at least 3 Oz. glass.
> >
> > Jon
> >
> > It is more enviromentaly friendly to build one boat that lasts then 5
> > that don't.
> >
> > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, GBroadlick@ wrote:
> > >
> > > interesting
> > >
> > >
> > > In a message dated 1/26/2009 4:09:58 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> > > Don_Maurer@ writes:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > There are 2 reasons you may want to fiberglass the inside of a
> > boat.
> > > One is to keep fir plywood from checking as already has been
> > > discussed. The other is if the boat was designed as a monocoque
> > > structure, ie. the inner and outer fiberglass layers are in
> > tension
> > > against each other. It creates a much stronger structure than the
> > > core plywood itself. Many boats designed like this have few frames
> > to
> > > help support the structure so it is important to fiberglass both
> > > sides to get the required strength. If the boat was designed with
> > > conventional frames and fiberglass was not specified it is
> > probably
> > > redundant and you would be better off with paint only.
> >
>

There is also the part where what works in Texas may not work in
Washington.

Jon

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Feller" <chrisbfeller@...>
wrote:

>
> I think we have once again shown that there is no one correct answer
> to this question. There are pluses and minus's to each of these
> approaches. One thing that we all have in common though is that we
> are each very happy with the approach that we take. This is great
> news. That means that you can do it the way you want to and it will
> work and you'll probably be happy with the results. There are

always

> trade offs. Make a choice and be happy.
>
> Chris Feller
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jon & Wanda(Tink)" <windyjon@>

wrote:

> >
> > Fir plywood will always check the glue in all plywood is not 100%
> > coverage so there is places in all plywood where water setting in

the

> > bilge can soak through to the outside through all layers. The

best

> > names with the longest track records in amateur boat building,

sails

> > of plans and kits all recomend encapsolation. With lower grades

and

> > most marine grade fir that includes glassing to prevent checking.
> > Paint alone will not prevent checking on a boat that gets water

in

> > the bilge even if it is only day used with a few several day

trips a

> > year. It is best to keep water out rather then try to let it dry

out.

> > Good news 3 Oz. glass wraped up on to sides of frames will do as

a

> > after thought and encapsolate the frames. The Interlux product

will

> > not prevent as it says "help resist" with out mention of type of
> > plywood. It also has some realy nasty VOC isues. Light sand
> > thoroughly for bond and go for it with light glass. Do you realy

want

> > to depend on paint in your bilge that was not made for

submersion. To

> > prevent water from splash or a hole in the tarp over it from

soaking

> > in at the easyest spot then maybe swelling the ply trust epoxy

over

> > paint. To keep fir ply from ever checking use at least 3 Oz.

glass.

> >
> > Jon
> >
> > It is more enviromentaly friendly to build one boat that lasts

then 5

> > that don't.
> >
> > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, GBroadlick@ wrote:
> > >
> > > interesting
> > >
> > >
> > > In a message dated 1/26/2009 4:09:58 P.M. Eastern Standard

Time,

> > > Don_Maurer@ writes:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > There are 2 reasons you may want to fiberglass the inside of a
> > boat.
> > > One is to keep fir plywood from checking as already has been
> > > discussed. The other is if the boat was designed as a

monocoque

> > > structure, ie. the inner and outer fiberglass layers are in
> > tension
> > > against each other. It creates a much stronger structure than

the

> > > core plywood itself. Many boats designed like this have few

frames

> > to
> > > help support the structure so it is important to fiberglass

both

> > > sides to get the required strength. If the boat was designed

with

> > > conventional frames and fiberglass was not specified it is
> > probably
> > > redundant and you would be better off with paint only.
> >
>

I think we have once again shown that there is no one correct answer
to this question. There are pluses and minus's to each of these
approaches. One thing that we all have in common though is that we
are each very happy with the approach that we take. This is great
news. That means that you can do it the way you want to and it will
work and you'll probably be happy with the results. There are always
trade offs. Make a choice and be happy.

Chris Feller

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jon & Wanda(Tink)" <windyjon@...> wrote:
>
> Fir plywood will always check the glue in all plywood is not 100%
> coverage so there is places in all plywood where water setting in the
> bilge can soak through to the outside through all layers. The best
> names with the longest track records in amateur boat building, sails
> of plans and kits all recomend encapsolation. With lower grades and
> most marine grade fir that includes glassing to prevent checking.
> Paint alone will not prevent checking on a boat that gets water in
> the bilge even if it is only day used with a few several day trips a
> year. It is best to keep water out rather then try to let it dry out.
> Good news 3 Oz. glass wraped up on to sides of frames will do as a
> after thought and encapsolate the frames. The Interlux product will
> not prevent as it says "help resist" with out mention of type of
> plywood. It also has some realy nasty VOC isues. Light sand
> thoroughly for bond and go for it with light glass. Do you realy want
> to depend on paint in your bilge that was not made for submersion. To
> prevent water from splash or a hole in the tarp over it from soaking
> in at the easyest spot then maybe swelling the ply trust epoxy over
> paint. To keep fir ply from ever checking use at least 3 Oz. glass.
>
> Jon
>
> It is more enviromentaly friendly to build one boat that lasts then 5
> that don't.
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, GBroadlick@ wrote:
> >
> > interesting
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 1/26/2009 4:09:58 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> > Don_Maurer@ writes:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > There are 2 reasons you may want to fiberglass the inside of a
> boat.
> > One is to keep fir plywood from checking as already has been
> > discussed. The other is if the boat was designed as a monocoque
> > structure, ie. the inner and outer fiberglass layers are in
> tension
> > against each other. It creates a much stronger structure than the
> > core plywood itself. Many boats designed like this have few frames
> to
> > help support the structure so it is important to fiberglass both
> > sides to get the required strength. If the boat was designed with
> > conventional frames and fiberglass was not specified it is
> probably
> > redundant and you would be better off with paint only.
>

Fir plywood will always check the glue in all plywood is not 100%
coverage so there is places in all plywood where water setting in the
bilge can soak through to the outside through all layers. The best
names with the longest track records in amateur boat building, sails
of plans and kits all recomend encapsolation. With lower grades and
most marine grade fir that includes glassing to prevent checking.
Paint alone will not prevent checking on a boat that gets water in
the bilge even if it is only day used with a few several day trips a
year. It is best to keep water out rather then try to let it dry out.
Good news 3 Oz. glass wraped up on to sides of frames will do as a
after thought and encapsolate the frames. The Interlux product will
not prevent as it says "help resist" with out mention of type of
plywood. It also has some realy nasty VOC isues. Light sand
thoroughly for bond and go for it with light glass. Do you realy want
to depend on paint in your bilge that was not made for submersion. To
prevent water from splash or a hole in the tarp over it from soaking
in at the easyest spot then maybe swelling the ply trust epoxy over
paint. To keep fir ply from ever checking use at least 3 Oz. glass.

Jon

It is more enviromentaly friendly to build one boat that lasts then 5
that don't.

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, GBroadlick@... wrote:
>
> interesting
>
>
> In a message dated 1/26/2009 4:09:58 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> Don_Maurer@... writes:
>
>
>
>
> There are 2 reasons you may want to fiberglass the inside of a
boat.
> One is to keep fir plywood from checking as already has been
> discussed. The other is if the boat was designed as a monocoque
> structure, ie. the inner and outer fiberglass layers are in
tension
> against each other. It creates a much stronger structure than the
> core plywood itself. Many boats designed like this have few frames
to
> help support the structure so it is important to fiberglass both
> sides to get the required strength. If the boat was designed with
> conventional frames and fiberglass was not specified it is
probably
> redundant and you would be better off with paint only.

interesting


In a message dated 1/26/2009 4:09:58 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
Don_Maurer@...writes:




There are 2 reasons you may want to fiberglass the inside of a boat.
One is to keep fir plywood from checking as already has been
discussed. The other is if the boat was designed as a monocoque
structure, ie. the inner and outer fiberglass layers are in tension
against each other. It creates a much stronger structure than the
core plywood itself. Many boats designed like this have few frames to
help support the structure so it is important to fiberglass both
sides to get the required strength. If the boat was designed with
conventional frames and fiberglass was not specified it is probably
redundant and you would be better off with paint only.

--- In_bolger@..._ (mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com) , "Brian
Anderson" <bawrytr@...> wrote:

>
> The thing I have always wondered, in terms of to glass or not to

glass

> the insides of a boat, is how much moisture can actually escape
> through plywood, given that the glue is waterproof. I would imagine
> that it would probably form a relatively impermeable barrier to the
> migration of water through the ply, and so given that as they say,
> most boats rot from the inside out, that there would be some

advantage

> to coating the inside with epoxy or with glass/epoxy.
>
> Anybody really know?
>
> Brian
>
> --- In_bolger@..._ (mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com) , Bruce

Hallman <bruce@> wrote:

> >
> > On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 10:04 AM, <GBroadlick@> wrote:
> > > the boat is built so MDO is too late. the issue is the

requirement

> to again
> > > sand to the point where it is ready to paint after i apply the
> glass and
> > > epoxy.
> > >
> >
> >
> > Fiberglassing the inside of a boat is subject to differing

opinions.

> > I usually fiberglass the insides. Others do not.
> >
>

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I'm curious how much history you have with this product. If it'd work
as you say, a lot of folks would be much happier using fir marine
plywood for boatbuilding. It'd then be a straight tradeoff between the
increased weight (compared to occoume) vs. the reduced cost. However,
I know of one builder who tried it for this purpose - and found it did
not stop the checking. I wonder if, perhaps, he wasn't generous enough
with the application.

Tell us more, please.

Cheers,
David G
Harbor Woodworks

*********************

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "maicorick3" <rickf@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> >
> > Yes. No question. Fir plywood will check unless glassed.
> >
>
>
> Not entirely true. The plywood can be sealed first. A product like
> Interlux Sealer works (I've used this exact stuff).
>
>http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=883
>
> But you have to start with the new wood. You just keep slathering this
> stuff on until it will take no more. Then let is dry, and sand, and
> then paint or varnish. When done properly the fir ply will not check.
>
> Unfortunately it is probably too late for the problem at hand, since
> the epoxy has sealed some of the ply and won't let this sealer through.
>
> If it were me, I'd try it anyway.
>

>
> Yes. No question. Fir plywood will check unless glassed.
>

Not entirely true. The plywood can be sealed first. A product like
Interlux Sealer works (I've used this exact stuff).

http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=883

But you have to start with the new wood. You just keep slathering this
stuff on until it will take no more. Then let is dry, and sand, and
then paint or varnish. When done properly the fir ply will not check.

Unfortunately it is probably too late for the problem at hand, since
the epoxy has sealed some of the ply and won't let this sealer through.

If it were me, I'd try it anyway.

Brian,

I wish I could give you a definitive answer. I can't. As I said, lots
of knowledgeable people on various sides of the issue. An example: my
shop is an "official builder" for two Antipodean designers. One from
OZ and one from NZ. I hold each of them in the highest regard. One
argues vigorously and convincingly for epoxy coating all components
before painting or varnishing. The other argues for using epoxy as an
adhesive, but not as a coating... paint only. Of course, we're talking
about BS 1088 or BS 6566 grade marine plywood... occoume, sapele,
meranti, et.al.

The tendency for fir plywood to check complicates the question, and is
generally enough for me to say, "glass it". But then, I haven't
owned/built a fir plywood boat since my 8' pram when I was 10 years old.

So... my firm and unbendable opinion is - It Depends. I'd have to know
all (and I mean ALL) the particulars before I'd venture a cautious
opinion, carefully couched in caveats.

I hope that makes it all crystal clear for you <G>

Cheers,
David G
Harbor Woodworks

***********************

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Brian Anderson" <bawrytr@...> wrote:
>
> The thing I have always wondered, in terms of to glass or not to glass
> the insides of a boat, is how much moisture can actually escape
> through plywood, given that the glue is waterproof. I would imagine
> that it would probably form a relatively impermeable barrier to the
> migration of water through the ply, and so given that as they say,
> most boats rot from the inside out, that there would be some advantage
> to coating the inside with epoxy or with glass/epoxy.
>
> Anybody really know?
>
> Brian

There are 2 reasons you may want to fiberglass the inside of a boat.
One is to keep fir plywood from checking as already has been
discussed. The other is if the boat was designed as a monocoque
structure, ie. the inner and outer fiberglass layers are in tension
against each other. It creates a much stronger structure than the
core plywood itself. Many boats designed like this have few frames to
help support the structure so it is important to fiberglass both
sides to get the required strength. If the boat was designed with
conventional frames and fiberglass was not specified it is probably
redundant and you would be better off with paint only.

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Brian Anderson" <bawrytr@...> wrote:
>
> The thing I have always wondered, in terms of to glass or not to
glass
> the insides of a boat, is how much moisture can actually escape
> through plywood, given that the glue is waterproof. I would imagine
> that it would probably form a relatively impermeable barrier to the
> migration of water through the ply, and so given that as they say,
> most boats rot from the inside out, that there would be some
advantage
> to coating the inside with epoxy or with glass/epoxy.
>
> Anybody really know?
>
> Brian
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@> wrote:
> >
> > On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 10:04 AM, <GBroadlick@> wrote:
> > > the boat is built so MDO is too late. the issue is the
requirement
> to again
> > > sand to the point where it is ready to paint after i apply the
> glass and
> > > epoxy.
> > >
> >
> >
> > Fiberglassing the inside of a boat is subject to differing
opinions.
> > I usually fiberglass the insides. Others do not.
> >
>

The thing I have always wondered, in terms of to glass or not to glass
the insides of a boat, is how much moisture can actually escape
through plywood, given that the glue is waterproof. I would imagine
that it would probably form a relatively impermeable barrier to the
migration of water through the ply, and so given that as they say,
most boats rot from the inside out, that there would be some advantage
to coating the inside with epoxy or with glass/epoxy.

Anybody really know?

Brian

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@...> wrote:
>
> On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 10:04 AM, <GBroadlick@...> wrote:
> > the boat is built so MDO is too late. the issue is the requirement
to again
> > sand to the point where it is ready to paint after i apply the
glass and
> > epoxy.
> >
>
>
> Fiberglassing the inside of a boat is subject to differing opinions.
> I usually fiberglass the insides. Others do not.
>

Yes, but it is available (often by special order) in 5/16"

Cheers,
David G
Harbor Woodworks

**********************

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Feller" <chrisbfeller@...> wrote:
>
> I have to agree with you on MDO. I have used it on three boats within
> the last five years. The only bad thing about MDO is that you can't
> get it in 1/4 inch.
>
> Chris Feller
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "David" <arbordg@> wrote:
> >
> > I would add top quality MDO to the list of good boatbuilding plywood
> > panels that won't check.
> >
> > The issue of whether its better to put epoxy/glass on a boat, and
> > where, is one that boatbuilders go around and around about. There are
> > perfectly reputable designers and builders who come down at various
> > spots in this discussion. I won't restarts the whole discussion here,
> > but will note that all the little cracks caused by checking fir
> > plywood (whether painted or not) provide lovely collectors of moisture
> > and dirt/spores. Prime conditions for rot. OTOH, Mr. Feller's argument
> > has merit as well.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > David G
> > Harbor Woodworks
> >
> > *************************
> >
> > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Feller" <chrisbfeller@> wrote:
> > >
> > > It will eventually check if you do not however the drawback to
> > > glassing the inside is that if water gets into the plywood it won't
> > > have any way out.
> > >
> > > The way I deal with this issue is to glass the outside and paint
only
> > > the inside with acrylic paint. I do not use epoxy on the
inside. The
> > > advantage to the acrylic paint is that it is softer and expands and
> > > contracts more. This delays the checking but does not eliminate
it.
> > >
> > > The best way to avoid checking is to use high quality Ocumme or
> > > Meranti marine ply. I never do this because of cost and the
fact that
> > > I tend to build a new boat every couple of years anyway.
> > >
> > > Chris Feller
> > > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "gbroadlick" <GBroadlick@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I am building a Parker Ohio Sharpie. The hull is fir marine ply
> with
> > > > epoxy and dynel covering the exterior, epoxy interior.
> Everything is
> > > > sanded and ready to paint inside and out.
> > > >
> > > > A few years ago i purchased a Bolger Hawkeye that was built in
> 2000.
> > > > The boat is great but suffers from checking of the ply surface
> on the
> > > > panels that make up the sides of the hull. The sides are not
> covered
> > > > with glass but are epoxied. Last year i took the hull down to
bare
> > > > wood, epoxied sanded and repainted with primer and single part
> Brite
> > > > Sides paint. Soon after the boat was on the water the checking
> > > > reappeared.
> > > >
> > > > Last year i purchased a Martha Jane that was built by Jochem and
> is 2
> > > > or 3 times older than the Hawkeye and there is no surface
> checking in
> > > > the ply. The boat was glassed on all external surfaces.
> > > >
> > > > So i keep wondering should i go ahead and glass the inside of the
> > > > Ohio Sharpie. I doubt the epoxy is built to a sufficient
> thickness to
> > > > keep moisture out. I hate to start over with the sanding but the
> > > > decks are not on yet and if i am going to do it now is the time.
> > > >
> > > > Any thoughts?
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 10:04 AM, <GBroadlick@...> wrote:

> the boat is built so MDO is too late. the issue is the requirement to again
> sand to the point where it is ready to paint after i apply the glass and
> epoxy.
>

Fiberglassing the inside of a boat is subject to differing opinions.
I usually fiberglass the insides. Others do not.

the boat is built so MDO is too late. the issue is the requirement to again
sand to the point where it is ready to paint after i apply the glass and
epoxy.


In a message dated 1/26/2009 12:37:15 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
chrisbfeller@...writes:




I have to agree with you on MDO. I have used it on three boats within
the last five years. The only bad thing about MDO is that you can't
get it in 1/4 inch.

Chris Feller
--- In_bolger@..._ (mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com) , "David"
<arbordg@...> wrote:

>
> I would add top quality MDO to the list of good boatbuilding plywood
> panels that won't check.
>
> The issue of whether its better to put epoxy/glass on a boat, and
> where, is one that boatbuilders go around and around about. There are
> perfectly reputable designers and builders who come down at various
> spots in this discussion. I won't restarts the whole discussion here,
> but will note that all the little cracks caused by checking fir
> plywood (whether painted or not) provide lovely collectors of moisture
> and dirt/spores. Prime conditions for rot. OTOH, Mr. Feller's argument
> has merit as well.
>
> Cheers,
> David G
> Harbor Woodworks
>
> ************ ****
>
> --- In_bolger@..._ (mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com) , "Chris

Feller" <chrisbfeller@> wrote:

> >
> > It will eventually check if you do not however the drawback to
> > glassing the inside is that if water gets into the plywood it won't
> > have any way out.
> >
> > The way I deal with this issue is to glass the outside and paint only
> > the inside with acrylic paint. I do not use epoxy on the inside. The
> > advantage to the acrylic paint is that it is softer and expands and
> > contracts more. This delays the checking but does not eliminate it.
> >
> > The best way to avoid checking is to use high quality Ocumme or
> > Meranti marine ply. I never do this because of cost and the fact that
> > I tend to build a new boat every couple of years anyway.
> >
> > Chris Feller
> > --- In_bolger@..._ (mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com) ,

"gbroadlick" <GBroadlick@> wrote:

> > >
> > > I am building a Parker Ohio Sharpie. The hull is fir marine ply

with

> > > epoxy and dynel covering the exterior, epoxy interior.

Everything is

> > > sanded and ready to paint inside and out.
> > >
> > > A few years ago i purchased a Bolger Hawkeye that was built in

2000.

> > > The boat is great but suffers from checking of the ply surface

on the

> > > panels that make up the sides of the hull. The sides are not

covered

> > > with glass but are epoxied. Last year i took the hull down to bare
> > > wood, epoxied sanded and repainted with primer and single part

Brite

> > > Sides paint. Soon after the boat was on the water the checking
> > > reappeared.
> > >
> > > Last year i purchased a Martha Jane that was built by Jochem and

is 2

> > > or 3 times older than the Hawkeye and there is no surface

checking in

> > > the ply. The boat was glassed on all external surfaces.
> > >
> > > So i keep wondering should i go ahead and glass the inside of the
> > > Ohio Sharpie. I doubt the epoxy is built to a sufficient

thickness to

> > > keep moisture out. I hate to start over with the sanding but the
> > > decks are not on yet and if i am going to do it now is the time.
> > >
> > > Any thoughts?
> > >
> >
>

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I have to agree with you on MDO. I have used it on three boats within
the last five years. The only bad thing about MDO is that you can't
get it in 1/4 inch.

Chris Feller

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "David" <arbordg@...> wrote:
>
> I would add top quality MDO to the list of good boatbuilding plywood
> panels that won't check.
>
> The issue of whether its better to put epoxy/glass on a boat, and
> where, is one that boatbuilders go around and around about. There are
> perfectly reputable designers and builders who come down at various
> spots in this discussion. I won't restarts the whole discussion here,
> but will note that all the little cracks caused by checking fir
> plywood (whether painted or not) provide lovely collectors of moisture
> and dirt/spores. Prime conditions for rot. OTOH, Mr. Feller's argument
> has merit as well.
>
> Cheers,
> David G
> Harbor Woodworks
>
> *************************
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Feller" <chrisbfeller@> wrote:
> >
> > It will eventually check if you do not however the drawback to
> > glassing the inside is that if water gets into the plywood it won't
> > have any way out.
> >
> > The way I deal with this issue is to glass the outside and paint only
> > the inside with acrylic paint. I do not use epoxy on the inside. The
> > advantage to the acrylic paint is that it is softer and expands and
> > contracts more. This delays the checking but does not eliminate it.
> >
> > The best way to avoid checking is to use high quality Ocumme or
> > Meranti marine ply. I never do this because of cost and the fact that
> > I tend to build a new boat every couple of years anyway.
> >
> > Chris Feller
> > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "gbroadlick" <GBroadlick@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I am building a Parker Ohio Sharpie. The hull is fir marine ply
with
> > > epoxy and dynel covering the exterior, epoxy interior.
Everything is
> > > sanded and ready to paint inside and out.
> > >
> > > A few years ago i purchased a Bolger Hawkeye that was built in
2000.
> > > The boat is great but suffers from checking of the ply surface
on the
> > > panels that make up the sides of the hull. The sides are not
covered
> > > with glass but are epoxied. Last year i took the hull down to bare
> > > wood, epoxied sanded and repainted with primer and single part
Brite
> > > Sides paint. Soon after the boat was on the water the checking
> > > reappeared.
> > >
> > > Last year i purchased a Martha Jane that was built by Jochem and
is 2
> > > or 3 times older than the Hawkeye and there is no surface
checking in
> > > the ply. The boat was glassed on all external surfaces.
> > >
> > > So i keep wondering should i go ahead and glass the inside of the
> > > Ohio Sharpie. I doubt the epoxy is built to a sufficient
thickness to
> > > keep moisture out. I hate to start over with the sanding but the
> > > decks are not on yet and if i am going to do it now is the time.
> > >
> > > Any thoughts?
> > >
> >
>

On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 9:08 AM, David <arbordg@...> wrote:

> I would add top quality MDO to the list of good boatbuilding plywood
> panels that won't check.
>
> The issue of whether its better to put epoxy/glass on a boat, and
> where, is one that boatbuilders go around and around about.

And, it is worth mentioning that when I asked PCB whether I could save
the work of fiberglass and epoxy by using MDO plywood on Topaz Spyder.
He said that he recommended sheathing with fiberglass cloth and
epoxy.

I would add top quality MDO to the list of good boatbuilding plywood
panels that won't check.

The issue of whether its better to put epoxy/glass on a boat, and
where, is one that boatbuilders go around and around about. There are
perfectly reputable designers and builders who come down at various
spots in this discussion. I won't restarts the whole discussion here,
but will note that all the little cracks caused by checking fir
plywood (whether painted or not) provide lovely collectors of moisture
and dirt/spores. Prime conditions for rot. OTOH, Mr. Feller's argument
has merit as well.

Cheers,
David G
Harbor Woodworks

*************************

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Feller" <chrisbfeller@...> wrote:
>
> It will eventually check if you do not however the drawback to
> glassing the inside is that if water gets into the plywood it won't
> have any way out.
>
> The way I deal with this issue is to glass the outside and paint only
> the inside with acrylic paint. I do not use epoxy on the inside. The
> advantage to the acrylic paint is that it is softer and expands and
> contracts more. This delays the checking but does not eliminate it.
>
> The best way to avoid checking is to use high quality Ocumme or
> Meranti marine ply. I never do this because of cost and the fact that
> I tend to build a new boat every couple of years anyway.
>
> Chris Feller
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "gbroadlick" <GBroadlick@> wrote:
> >
> > I am building a Parker Ohio Sharpie. The hull is fir marine ply with
> > epoxy and dynel covering the exterior, epoxy interior. Everything is
> > sanded and ready to paint inside and out.
> >
> > A few years ago i purchased a Bolger Hawkeye that was built in 2000.
> > The boat is great but suffers from checking of the ply surface on the
> > panels that make up the sides of the hull. The sides are not covered
> > with glass but are epoxied. Last year i took the hull down to bare
> > wood, epoxied sanded and repainted with primer and single part Brite
> > Sides paint. Soon after the boat was on the water the checking
> > reappeared.
> >
> > Last year i purchased a Martha Jane that was built by Jochem and is 2
> > or 3 times older than the Hawkeye and there is no surface checking in
> > the ply. The boat was glassed on all external surfaces.
> >
> > So i keep wondering should i go ahead and glass the inside of the
> > Ohio Sharpie. I doubt the epoxy is built to a sufficient thickness to
> > keep moisture out. I hate to start over with the sanding but the
> > decks are not on yet and if i am going to do it now is the time.
> >
> > Any thoughts?
> >
>

It will eventually check if you do not however the drawback to
glassing the inside is that if water gets into the plywood it won't
have any way out.

The way I deal with this issue is to glass the outside and paint only
the inside with acrylic paint. I do not use epoxy on the inside. The
advantage to the acrylic paint is that it is softer and expands and
contracts more. This delays the checking but does not eliminate it.

The best way to avoid checking is to use high quality Ocumme or
Meranti marine ply. I never do this because of cost and the fact that
I tend to build a new boat every couple of years anyway.

Chris Feller

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "gbroadlick" <GBroadlick@...> wrote:
>
> I am building a Parker Ohio Sharpie. The hull is fir marine ply with
> epoxy and dynel covering the exterior, epoxy interior. Everything is
> sanded and ready to paint inside and out.
>
> A few years ago i purchased a Bolger Hawkeye that was built in 2000.
> The boat is great but suffers from checking of the ply surface on the
> panels that make up the sides of the hull. The sides are not covered
> with glass but are epoxied. Last year i took the hull down to bare
> wood, epoxied sanded and repainted with primer and single part Brite
> Sides paint. Soon after the boat was on the water the checking
> reappeared.
>
> Last year i purchased a Martha Jane that was built by Jochem and is 2
> or 3 times older than the Hawkeye and there is no surface checking in
> the ply. The boat was glassed on all external surfaces.
>
> So i keep wondering should i go ahead and glass the inside of the
> Ohio Sharpie. I doubt the epoxy is built to a sufficient thickness to
> keep moisture out. I hate to start over with the sanding but the
> decks are not on yet and if i am going to do it now is the time.
>
> Any thoughts?
>

Yes. No question. Fir plywood will check unless glassed.

Cheers,
David G
Harbor Woodworks

**********************

-- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "gbroadlick" <GBroadlick@...> wrote:

>
> I am building a Parker Ohio Sharpie. The hull is fir marine ply with
> epoxy and dynel covering the exterior, epoxy interior. Everything is
> sanded and ready to paint inside and out.
>
> A few years ago i purchased a Bolger Hawkeye that was built in 2000.
> The boat is great but suffers from checking of the ply surface on the
> panels that make up the sides of the hull. The sides are not covered
> with glass but are epoxied. Last year i took the hull down to bare
> wood, epoxied sanded and repainted with primer and single part Brite
> Sides paint. Soon after the boat was on the water the checking
> reappeared.
>
> Last year i purchased a Martha Jane that was built by Jochem and is 2
> or 3 times older than the Hawkeye and there is no surface checking in
> the ply. The boat was glassed on all external surfaces.
>
> So i keep wondering should i go ahead and glass the inside of the
> Ohio Sharpie. I doubt the epoxy is built to a sufficient thickness to
> keep moisture out. I hate to start over with the sanding but the
> decks are not on yet and if i am going to do it now is the time.
>
> Any thoughts?
>

I am building a Parker Ohio Sharpie. The hull is fir marine ply with
epoxy and dynel covering the exterior, epoxy interior. Everything is
sanded and ready to paint inside and out.

A few years ago i purchased a Bolger Hawkeye that was built in 2000.
The boat is great but suffers from checking of the ply surface on the
panels that make up the sides of the hull. The sides are not covered
with glass but are epoxied. Last year i took the hull down to bare
wood, epoxied sanded and repainted with primer and single part Brite
Sides paint. Soon after the boat was on the water the checking
reappeared.

Last year i purchased a Martha Jane that was built by Jochem and is 2
or 3 times older than the Hawkeye and there is no surface checking in
the ply. The boat was glassed on all external surfaces.

So i keep wondering should i go ahead and glass the inside of the
Ohio Sharpie. I doubt the epoxy is built to a sufficient thickness to
keep moisture out. I hate to start over with the sanding but the
decks are not on yet and if i am going to do it now is the time.

Any thoughts?