Re: Was re design choice
Hello Bob
Heaps more good info and thoughts here. I look forward to your mods
and testing.
Can you explain about cabin not attached and how this works. Does the
cabling and winch hold everything together or what?
Thanks - Darrell
Heaps more good info and thoughts here. I look forward to your mods
and testing.
Can you explain about cabin not attached and how this works. Does the
cabling and winch hold everything together or what?
Thanks - Darrell
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Slimak" <otter55806@...> wrote:
>
> Darrell,
> OK, read that post of Toms. Once again, this is NOT the re-design as
> done by Bolger. Bolger added 6 or 7 inches to the center hull. I
> think it was 6, not seven, but can't lay my hands on the building
> guide since it's been four years since I did that. Tom did this on
> his own, and if it has worked for him, fine; but it is not what was
> recommented by Bolger. Only added an inch to the main hull, but 4 to
> the sponsons COULD mean more stress on the sponsons, BUT could mean
> less wetted area and therefore a more easily driven hull. Also, he
> did greatly lighten the cabin by removing the middle of the cabin roof
> and getting rid of the solid cabin sides in favor of roll up vinyl.
> As he said, and I have also noted, weight is bad thing on the Bantam
> if you want speed. I do believe his approach to reduce weight has
> lead to his increased speed and better gas mileage. It come at a
> cost, however, to my idea of comfort. One of the reason I went for
> this design was to get rid of soft sides. I don't mind them for a
> week, or maybe even 12 days like he did on the Erie Canal, but I want
> a solid side for three months or longer like I do. That is just a
> personal thing, each to their own.
> Regarding a sitting room, birdwatcher top cabin. I have been thinking
> of checking such a thing out. One of the nice things about Bantam is
> that since the cabin is NOT attached to the hull I can just lift the
> whole thing off and pull the boat out from underneath. For this
> coming summer I have been think of doing just that and then taking the
> boat out as just a hull, no cabin, and seeing what it does for speed
> and mpg. If it is much improved I was thinking of gluing up 1" form
> into a sitting headroom, birdwatcher hatch cabin, and taking it out to
> see what it does. If a great improvement, then glass it to finish it
> off. Besides weight, I'm sure windage of the high cabin cuts into
> it's speed and economy also, so a better aerodynamic cabin could help.
> Another reason I have been contemplating this is that I have found
> out that I love river cruising more than out on the Gulf, but in
> January to March those places still get into down into the thirties F
> at night. Too cold for comfort without heat. Actually, I had many
> nights right on the Gulf that got into the thirties! The Bantam, with
> 360 degrees of windows has too much heat loss and is hard to heat. I
> did have a portable heater. but was non vented and I spent a lot of
> time wiping off condensation from all those windows. A sitting
> headroom cabin of foam would be easier to heat. I am thinking of a
> solid fuel stove, such as the Dickenson, although I will probably make
> my own instead of paying $400.00 for theirs. The reason for that is
> that the small propane heaters show that they could use a 20lb
> cylinder of propane every two days. Currently that would be about
> $17.00 US every two days for heat. Too much. Cruising rivers there
> is an endless supply of fuel on shore for free. If you only cruise in
> warm climates you don't have to worry about this, but I had many days
> in a row the last two years in Texas and Florida with nights getting
> into the thirties. Sure I managed, but, again, this is supposed to be
> PLEASURE boating. I will be adding 3/4" foam to the hull sides this
> year. That is easy since all the panels have 3/4" lumber epoxied to
> them on the perimeter, so all I have to do is cut rectangular sheets
> to fill in the space. The hull bottoms already have 6 to 7 inches, so
> they are fine. I can't imagine how to insulate the cabin walls and
> still have them fold. Plus, even foam adds weight, so have to make up
> for that by reducing weight elsewhere. The nice thing about this idea
> is that the foam will not be hurt by rain even when not glassed. I
> can raise the current top to it full height, leave it like that with
> the sides in their folded position. Remove the front and rear panels,
> then put a tarp over the top and have a protected place to work with
> the foam. Once it is in place put 4 uprights in place, two poles
> between them, and pull the boat out from under. Use it for a while
> this way. If it seems good, glass the foam and add windows. If you
> doesn't seem to be an improvement I'm only out the foam and minimal
> time. I would NOT want to go and waste the time and money on glassing
> it to find out it was a bad idea. Besides adding that 2' to the
> sponsons as I mentioned before, I am also thinking of doing the raised
> deck on the rear cockpit as Bolger showed on a later design. One done
> after I bought the plans. In that one he had lengthened the boat to 24
> and added the raised rear deck and added two more bunks. While I
> don't care about sleeping four people, I think it might be nice to
> have a bunk that is just that, a bunk. No converting the daytime
> sitting area into a bed every night. OK, I admit I seem to be having
> a problem getting use to less space:) The boat I built that I spend
> more years cruising than anything was a Roberts Spray 28. I loved the
> space. It could pretty much take any seas, designed to sail around the
> world, if one wanted to. But, I did not like needing four feet of
> water. It turned out I prefer cruising in places with skinny water:)
> The problem is, after more then 12,000 miles of big boat cruising I
> seem to be having problems in reducing how much I take with me LOL!
> Bob
Bob,
Your plan for a BW style cabin sounds very well thought out. Testing
first seems very wise.
Don
Your plan for a BW style cabin sounds very well thought out. Testing
first seems very wise.
Don
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Slimak" <otter55806@...> wrote:
>
> Darrell,
> OK, read that post of Toms.
Darrell,
OK, read that post of Toms. Once again, this is NOT the re-design as
done by Bolger. Bolger added 6 or 7 inches to the center hull. I
think it was 6, not seven, but can't lay my hands on the building
guide since it's been four years since I did that. Tom did this on
his own, and if it has worked for him, fine; but it is not what was
recommented by Bolger. Only added an inch to the main hull, but 4 to
the sponsons COULD mean more stress on the sponsons, BUT could mean
less wetted area and therefore a more easily driven hull. Also, he
did greatly lighten the cabin by removing the middle of the cabin roof
and getting rid of the solid cabin sides in favor of roll up vinyl.
As he said, and I have also noted, weight is bad thing on the Bantam
if you want speed. I do believe his approach to reduce weight has
lead to his increased speed and better gas mileage. It come at a
cost, however, to my idea of comfort. One of the reason I went for
this design was to get rid of soft sides. I don't mind them for a
week, or maybe even 12 days like he did on the Erie Canal, but I want
a solid side for three months or longer like I do. That is just a
personal thing, each to their own.
Regarding a sitting room, birdwatcher top cabin. I have been thinking
of checking such a thing out. One of the nice things about Bantam is
that since the cabin is NOT attached to the hull I can just lift the
whole thing off and pull the boat out from underneath. For this
coming summer I have been think of doing just that and then taking the
boat out as just a hull, no cabin, and seeing what it does for speed
and mpg. If it is much improved I was thinking of gluing up 1" form
into a sitting headroom, birdwatcher hatch cabin, and taking it out to
see what it does. If a great improvement, then glass it to finish it
off. Besides weight, I'm sure windage of the high cabin cuts into
it's speed and economy also, so a better aerodynamic cabin could help.
Another reason I have been contemplating this is that I have found
out that I love river cruising more than out on the Gulf, but in
January to March those places still get into down into the thirties F
at night. Too cold for comfort without heat. Actually, I had many
nights right on the Gulf that got into the thirties! The Bantam, with
360 degrees of windows has too much heat loss and is hard to heat. I
did have a portable heater. but was non vented and I spent a lot of
time wiping off condensation from all those windows. A sitting
headroom cabin of foam would be easier to heat. I am thinking of a
solid fuel stove, such as the Dickenson, although I will probably make
my own instead of paying $400.00 for theirs. The reason for that is
that the small propane heaters show that they could use a 20lb
cylinder of propane every two days. Currently that would be about
$17.00 US every two days for heat. Too much. Cruising rivers there
is an endless supply of fuel on shore for free. If you only cruise in
warm climates you don't have to worry about this, but I had many days
in a row the last two years in Texas and Florida with nights getting
into the thirties. Sure I managed, but, again, this is supposed to be
PLEASURE boating. I will be adding 3/4" foam to the hull sides this
year. That is easy since all the panels have 3/4" lumber epoxied to
them on the perimeter, so all I have to do is cut rectangular sheets
to fill in the space. The hull bottoms already have 6 to 7 inches, so
they are fine. I can't imagine how to insulate the cabin walls and
still have them fold. Plus, even foam adds weight, so have to make up
for that by reducing weight elsewhere. The nice thing about this idea
is that the foam will not be hurt by rain even when not glassed. I
can raise the current top to it full height, leave it like that with
the sides in their folded position. Remove the front and rear panels,
then put a tarp over the top and have a protected place to work with
the foam. Once it is in place put 4 uprights in place, two poles
between them, and pull the boat out from under. Use it for a while
this way. If it seems good, glass the foam and add windows. If you
doesn't seem to be an improvement I'm only out the foam and minimal
time. I would NOT want to go and waste the time and money on glassing
it to find out it was a bad idea. Besides adding that 2' to the
sponsons as I mentioned before, I am also thinking of doing the raised
deck on the rear cockpit as Bolger showed on a later design. One done
after I bought the plans. In that one he had lengthened the boat to 24
and added the raised rear deck and added two more bunks. While I
don't care about sleeping four people, I think it might be nice to
have a bunk that is just that, a bunk. No converting the daytime
sitting area into a bed every night. OK, I admit I seem to be having
a problem getting use to less space:) The boat I built that I spend
more years cruising than anything was a Roberts Spray 28. I loved the
space. It could pretty much take any seas, designed to sail around the
world, if one wanted to. But, I did not like needing four feet of
water. It turned out I prefer cruising in places with skinny water:)
The problem is, after more then 12,000 miles of big boat cruising I
seem to be having problems in reducing how much I take with me LOL!
Bob
OK, read that post of Toms. Once again, this is NOT the re-design as
done by Bolger. Bolger added 6 or 7 inches to the center hull. I
think it was 6, not seven, but can't lay my hands on the building
guide since it's been four years since I did that. Tom did this on
his own, and if it has worked for him, fine; but it is not what was
recommented by Bolger. Only added an inch to the main hull, but 4 to
the sponsons COULD mean more stress on the sponsons, BUT could mean
less wetted area and therefore a more easily driven hull. Also, he
did greatly lighten the cabin by removing the middle of the cabin roof
and getting rid of the solid cabin sides in favor of roll up vinyl.
As he said, and I have also noted, weight is bad thing on the Bantam
if you want speed. I do believe his approach to reduce weight has
lead to his increased speed and better gas mileage. It come at a
cost, however, to my idea of comfort. One of the reason I went for
this design was to get rid of soft sides. I don't mind them for a
week, or maybe even 12 days like he did on the Erie Canal, but I want
a solid side for three months or longer like I do. That is just a
personal thing, each to their own.
Regarding a sitting room, birdwatcher top cabin. I have been thinking
of checking such a thing out. One of the nice things about Bantam is
that since the cabin is NOT attached to the hull I can just lift the
whole thing off and pull the boat out from underneath. For this
coming summer I have been think of doing just that and then taking the
boat out as just a hull, no cabin, and seeing what it does for speed
and mpg. If it is much improved I was thinking of gluing up 1" form
into a sitting headroom, birdwatcher hatch cabin, and taking it out to
see what it does. If a great improvement, then glass it to finish it
off. Besides weight, I'm sure windage of the high cabin cuts into
it's speed and economy also, so a better aerodynamic cabin could help.
Another reason I have been contemplating this is that I have found
out that I love river cruising more than out on the Gulf, but in
January to March those places still get into down into the thirties F
at night. Too cold for comfort without heat. Actually, I had many
nights right on the Gulf that got into the thirties! The Bantam, with
360 degrees of windows has too much heat loss and is hard to heat. I
did have a portable heater. but was non vented and I spent a lot of
time wiping off condensation from all those windows. A sitting
headroom cabin of foam would be easier to heat. I am thinking of a
solid fuel stove, such as the Dickenson, although I will probably make
my own instead of paying $400.00 for theirs. The reason for that is
that the small propane heaters show that they could use a 20lb
cylinder of propane every two days. Currently that would be about
$17.00 US every two days for heat. Too much. Cruising rivers there
is an endless supply of fuel on shore for free. If you only cruise in
warm climates you don't have to worry about this, but I had many days
in a row the last two years in Texas and Florida with nights getting
into the thirties. Sure I managed, but, again, this is supposed to be
PLEASURE boating. I will be adding 3/4" foam to the hull sides this
year. That is easy since all the panels have 3/4" lumber epoxied to
them on the perimeter, so all I have to do is cut rectangular sheets
to fill in the space. The hull bottoms already have 6 to 7 inches, so
they are fine. I can't imagine how to insulate the cabin walls and
still have them fold. Plus, even foam adds weight, so have to make up
for that by reducing weight elsewhere. The nice thing about this idea
is that the foam will not be hurt by rain even when not glassed. I
can raise the current top to it full height, leave it like that with
the sides in their folded position. Remove the front and rear panels,
then put a tarp over the top and have a protected place to work with
the foam. Once it is in place put 4 uprights in place, two poles
between them, and pull the boat out from under. Use it for a while
this way. If it seems good, glass the foam and add windows. If you
doesn't seem to be an improvement I'm only out the foam and minimal
time. I would NOT want to go and waste the time and money on glassing
it to find out it was a bad idea. Besides adding that 2' to the
sponsons as I mentioned before, I am also thinking of doing the raised
deck on the rear cockpit as Bolger showed on a later design. One done
after I bought the plans. In that one he had lengthened the boat to 24
and added the raised rear deck and added two more bunks. While I
don't care about sleeping four people, I think it might be nice to
have a bunk that is just that, a bunk. No converting the daytime
sitting area into a bed every night. OK, I admit I seem to be having
a problem getting use to less space:) The boat I built that I spend
more years cruising than anything was a Roberts Spray 28. I loved the
space. It could pretty much take any seas, designed to sail around the
world, if one wanted to. But, I did not like needing four feet of
water. It turned out I prefer cruising in places with skinny water:)
The problem is, after more then 12,000 miles of big boat cruising I
seem to be having problems in reducing how much I take with me LOL!
Bob
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Slimak" <otter55806@...> wrote:
>
> Oops! accd sent one without replying.
> Darrell,
> I wrote to Phil and asked him if, since I was not doing an add on, I
> should just make the side panels that extra width. He told me that he
> thought it was better to build the boat as original, then add the
> double bottoms. Since he is the designer, I did it his way. I think
> the foam does two things. Worst case scenario, you have at at least
> three unsinkable "logs" to keep you afloat:O It also acts a good
> insulation, both from frigid water, and probably helps deaden the
> sound of the water slapping when pounding into waves. If you make the
> hull without the double bottom by making the panels higher and raising
> the deck you will be too high up for good seating, since the bridge
> deck forms the seat bottoms. Anyway, I did it as Phil suggested and am
> happy with it. You really don't want anymore storage as it is easy to
> overload as it is. The storage areas in the sponsons and under the
> fore and aft decks and under the counters holds more than you should
> be taking if you really want to try anything other than displacement
> speeds.
> I am using the suggested Yamaha 25 HP High Thrust. When I first
> launched I was able to get up to 14 MPH with it. Then I just kept
> filling up all that space:)and now the fastest I have been able to go
> was 12. If against a strong wind and/or current, only 10. It sucks a
> lot more gas at those speeds, so I only do that If necessary to get to
> some protection if it is kicking up. Usually I am at half throttle
> with give me about 5 to 6 MPH, again depending on conditions. and I
> get about 7MPG at that setting. A lot of my favorite cruising is way
> slower. I like getting really close to shore and slowing down to
> about 2 to 2 1/2 so I can spot the wildlife better, which is what I
> enjoy. At this speed I get about 10 1/2MPG. Still now what consider
> good, since I know gas IS going to go back to $4.00 a gallon
> eventually. I am considering trying the 9.9 high thrust instead. I
> know that means back to displacement speeds only, but that is where I
> do 90% of my boating. John Bartlett (SP?) uses that on his Bantam
> down in Florida and I bet he gets at least 12 to 14 mpg. John, if you
> read this post maybe you can tell us what you get!
> The gas mileage is my only real complaint about this boat, which is
> why I am thinking of changing engines.
> The folding cabin. I have written this before, but unless you are
> going to do a lot of long distance towing, like I do, I would not
> bother. It is the most complicated part of building this boat. Since
> I tow 2000 miles each way in the winter I think it is worth it. At
> home I leave it up for towing, even if the distance is 80 miles or so.
> Part of the reason is that, while it is real easy to crank up and
> down, the roof floats on the four cables, and unless you are perfectly
> level, and you never are, when you fold down the side panels and start
> lowering roof, it is off center. Not a problem with two people as one
> can stay inside to push things into place while the other is outside
> on the winch. I am usually by myself and have had to get creative to
> get things into place. Another reason I tow with it up when I can is
> to avoid all the people coming over to watch, ask questions, etc. when
> doing this. With the roof up, I can just launch and be on my way and
> avoid all that. Finally, I had to make some additional outside corner
> covers to get them to stop leaking. I could not seem to get the cabin
> corners to not leak without doing this. This means that after the
> cabin is unfolded I have to go on the outside and screw on these
> additional pieces, so that any water would have to get around two sets
> of seals. I've never had any leakage problems on any of my other,
> permanent cabin boats. Still, I am glad I don't have all that height
> when towing those long distances.
> Bob
>
>
>
> Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "hobyarr" <knic0014@> wrote:
> >
> > Hello Bob - Checked out that article in detail, top stuff and more
> > good info. Had glanced at it before and is one reason for my interest
> > in Bantam.
> > A few more questions
> > Why the double bottom, is it something to do with ply sheet size, or
> > height to seat, or flotation, safety if damage hull or what. Could
> > this space be used for storage, water,composting head etc.
> >
> > What size motor do you run and do you have any estimates of speed and
> > fuel consumption at 1/2 and full throttle.
> > How long does it take to raise the roof and how fiddly is it - This
> > is for pulling up on the side of the road and camping in it.
> > Bound to have more questions.
> > Thanks - Darrell
> >
> > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Slimak" <otter55806@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Darrell,
> > > The post was getting too long, so started over.
> > > Yes, the re designed doubled bottoms comes with the plans. That
1" to
> > > hull and 4" to sponsons is not correct. As Bolger designed it
you are
> > > adding something like 6" to the center hull hull and 7" to the
> > > sponsons. As originally designed these was only about 6 inches from
> > > the water to the bridge deck, now there is about 12", depending
on how
> > > loaded you are. Yes, you glue hull side extentions to the
hulls, then
> > > glue in foam, then the second bottom. It certainly adds
complexity to
> > > the building, weight to the boat, and height on the trailer.
However,
> > > I have not had any problems launching as long as the ramp is
inclined
> > > decently. Yes, that is the problem with small cats, no standing
space
> > > except at the hatch. Still, that big bed in the middle must be
nice.
> > > Walking down the center in a tri gives yous standing headroom
without
> > > the excessive height of a pontoon. That's one thing I don't like
about
> > > that Gougemaran, which is really just a fancy pontoon boat. All the
> > > cabin, such as it is, is above the hulls making for even more
windage.
> > > You are not standing down inside the hulls, except for, apparently,
> > > the head. If you think of anymore questions, ask. If you want
to see
> > > some photos of the boat on my cruise in Florida you can check at the
> > > duckworksmagazine.com site. Click on features, then archives, then
> > > scroll to Jan '08.
> > > Bob
> > >
> >
>
Hello Bob
Thanks muchly again for this info.
I would have to give some thought to using that space low down for
heavy stuff that might otherwise be placed higher up. Added stability
Am a bit concerned about the fuel use you mention. In this article,
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/07/projects/bantam/index.htmit
seems that with a 15hp Honda at 11mph they're getting 14/15 mpg. They
also highlight overall weight as you do.
Our use of the boat would be much the same as yours especially
enjoying the scenery and wildlife with the addition of using it to
camp in on the road. . So is 5 or 6 knots the displacement speed for
the Bantam? What are your thoughts on the following - build
permanent/fixed sitting height sides with a lifting top, would this
allow a quicker and simpler lifting job and still be usefull? Even a
Birdwatcher type slot. In bad weather you could close it up tight
reduce windage and still operate. Possibly.
Thanks again - Darrell
Thanks muchly again for this info.
I would have to give some thought to using that space low down for
heavy stuff that might otherwise be placed higher up. Added stability
Am a bit concerned about the fuel use you mention. In this article,
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/07/projects/bantam/index.htmit
seems that with a 15hp Honda at 11mph they're getting 14/15 mpg. They
also highlight overall weight as you do.
Our use of the boat would be much the same as yours especially
enjoying the scenery and wildlife with the addition of using it to
camp in on the road. . So is 5 or 6 knots the displacement speed for
the Bantam? What are your thoughts on the following - build
permanent/fixed sitting height sides with a lifting top, would this
allow a quicker and simpler lifting job and still be usefull? Even a
Birdwatcher type slot. In bad weather you could close it up tight
reduce windage and still operate. Possibly.
Thanks again - Darrell
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Slimak" <otter55806@...> wrote:
>
> Oops! accd sent one without replying.
> Darrell,
> I wrote to Phil and asked him if, since I was not doing an add on, I
> should just make the side panels that extra width. He told me that he
> thought it was better to build the boat as original, then add the
> double bottoms. Since he is the designer, I did it his way. I think
> the foam does two things. Worst case scenario, you have at at least
> three unsinkable "logs" to keep you afloat:O It also acts a good
> insulation, both from frigid water, and probably helps deaden the
> sound of the water slapping when pounding into waves. If you make the
> hull without the double bottom by making the panels higher and raising
> the deck you will be too high up for good seating, since the bridge
> deck forms the seat bottoms. Anyway, I did it as Phil suggested and am
> happy with it. You really don't want anymore storage as it is easy to
> overload as it is. The storage areas in the sponsons and under the
> fore and aft decks and under the counters holds more than you should
> be taking if you really want to try anything other than displacement
> speeds.
> I am using the suggested Yamaha 25 HP High Thrust. When I first
> launched I was able to get up to 14 MPH with it. Then I just kept
> filling up all that space:)and now the fastest I have been able to go
> was 12. If against a strong wind and/or current, only 10. It sucks a
> lot more gas at those speeds, so I only do that If necessary to get to
> some protection if it is kicking up. Usually I am at half throttle
> with give me about 5 to 6 MPH, again depending on conditions. and I
> get about 7MPG at that setting. A lot of my favorite cruising is way
> slower. I like getting really close to shore and slowing down to
> about 2 to 2 1/2 so I can spot the wildlife better, which is what I
> enjoy. At this speed I get about 10 1/2MPG. Still now what consider
> good, since I know gas IS going to go back to $4.00 a gallon
> eventually. I am considering trying the 9.9 high thrust instead. I
> know that means back to displacement speeds only, but that is where I
> do 90% of my boating. John Bartlett (SP?) uses that on his Bantam
> down in Florida and I bet he gets at least 12 to 14 mpg. John, if you
> read this post maybe you can tell us what you get!
> The gas mileage is my only real complaint about this boat, which is
> why I am thinking of changing engines.
> The folding cabin. I have written this before, but unless you are
> going to do a lot of long distance towing, like I do, I would not
> bother. It is the most complicated part of building this boat. Since
> I tow 2000 miles each way in the winter I think it is worth it. At
> home I leave it up for towing, even if the distance is 80 miles or so.
> Part of the reason is that, while it is real easy to crank up and
> down, the roof floats on the four cables, and unless you are perfectly
> level, and you never are, when you fold down the side panels and start
> lowering roof, it is off center. Not a problem with two people as one
> can stay inside to push things into place while the other is outside
> on the winch. I am usually by myself and have had to get creative to
> get things into place. Another reason I tow with it up when I can is
> to avoid all the people coming over to watch, ask questions, etc. when
> doing this. With the roof up, I can just launch and be on my way and
> avoid all that. Finally, I had to make some additional outside corner
> covers to get them to stop leaking. I could not seem to get the cabin
> corners to not leak without doing this. This means that after the
> cabin is unfolded I have to go on the outside and screw on these
> additional pieces, so that any water would have to get around two sets
> of seals. I've never had any leakage problems on any of my other,
> permanent cabin boats. Still, I am glad I don't have all that height
> when towing those long distances.
> Bob
>
>
>
> Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "hobyarr" <knic0014@> wrote:
> >
> > Hello Bob - Checked out that article in detail, top stuff and more
> > good info. Had glanced at it before and is one reason for my interest
> > in Bantam.
> > A few more questions
> > Why the double bottom, is it something to do with ply sheet size, or
> > height to seat, or flotation, safety if damage hull or what. Could
> > this space be used for storage, water,composting head etc.
> >
> > What size motor do you run and do you have any estimates of speed and
> > fuel consumption at 1/2 and full throttle.
> > How long does it take to raise the roof and how fiddly is it - This
> > is for pulling up on the side of the road and camping in it.
> > Bound to have more questions.
> > Thanks - Darrell
> >
> > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Slimak" <otter55806@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Darrell,
> > > The post was getting too long, so started over.
> > > Yes, the re designed doubled bottoms comes with the plans. That
1" to
> > > hull and 4" to sponsons is not correct. As Bolger designed it
you are
> > > adding something like 6" to the center hull hull and 7" to the
> > > sponsons. As originally designed these was only about 6 inches from
> > > the water to the bridge deck, now there is about 12", depending
on how
> > > loaded you are. Yes, you glue hull side extentions to the
hulls, then
> > > glue in foam, then the second bottom. It certainly adds
complexity to
> > > the building, weight to the boat, and height on the trailer.
However,
> > > I have not had any problems launching as long as the ramp is
inclined
> > > decently. Yes, that is the problem with small cats, no standing
space
> > > except at the hatch. Still, that big bed in the middle must be
nice.
> > > Walking down the center in a tri gives yous standing headroom
without
> > > the excessive height of a pontoon. That's one thing I don't like
about
> > > that Gougemaran, which is really just a fancy pontoon boat. All the
> > > cabin, such as it is, is above the hulls making for even more
windage.
> > > You are not standing down inside the hulls, except for, apparently,
> > > the head. If you think of anymore questions, ask. If you want
to see
> > > some photos of the boat on my cruise in Florida you can check at the
> > > duckworksmagazine.com site. Click on features, then archives, then
> > > scroll to Jan '08.
> > > Bob
> > >
> >
>
Oops! accd sent one without replying.
Darrell,
I wrote to Phil and asked him if, since I was not doing an add on, I
should just make the side panels that extra width. He told me that he
thought it was better to build the boat as original, then add the
double bottoms. Since he is the designer, I did it his way. I think
the foam does two things. Worst case scenario, you have at at least
three unsinkable "logs" to keep you afloat:O It also acts a good
insulation, both from frigid water, and probably helps deaden the
sound of the water slapping when pounding into waves. If you make the
hull without the double bottom by making the panels higher and raising
the deck you will be too high up for good seating, since the bridge
deck forms the seat bottoms. Anyway, I did it as Phil suggested and am
happy with it. You really don't want anymore storage as it is easy to
overload as it is. The storage areas in the sponsons and under the
fore and aft decks and under the counters holds more than you should
be taking if you really want to try anything other than displacement
speeds.
I am using the suggested Yamaha 25 HP High Thrust. When I first
launched I was able to get up to 14 MPH with it. Then I just kept
filling up all that space:)and now the fastest I have been able to go
was 12. If against a strong wind and/or current, only 10. It sucks a
lot more gas at those speeds, so I only do that If necessary to get to
some protection if it is kicking up. Usually I am at half throttle
with give me about 5 to 6 MPH, again depending on conditions. and I
get about 7MPG at that setting. A lot of my favorite cruising is way
slower. I like getting really close to shore and slowing down to
about 2 to 2 1/2 so I can spot the wildlife better, which is what I
enjoy. At this speed I get about 10 1/2MPG. Still now what consider
good, since I know gas IS going to go back to $4.00 a gallon
eventually. I am considering trying the 9.9 high thrust instead. I
know that means back to displacement speeds only, but that is where I
do 90% of my boating. John Bartlett (SP?) uses that on his Bantam
down in Florida and I bet he gets at least 12 to 14 mpg. John, if you
read this post maybe you can tell us what you get!
The gas mileage is my only real complaint about this boat, which is
why I am thinking of changing engines.
The folding cabin. I have written this before, but unless you are
going to do a lot of long distance towing, like I do, I would not
bother. It is the most complicated part of building this boat. Since
I tow 2000 miles each way in the winter I think it is worth it. At
home I leave it up for towing, even if the distance is 80 miles or so.
Part of the reason is that, while it is real easy to crank up and
down, the roof floats on the four cables, and unless you are perfectly
level, and you never are, when you fold down the side panels and start
lowering roof, it is off center. Not a problem with two people as one
can stay inside to push things into place while the other is outside
on the winch. I am usually by myself and have had to get creative to
get things into place. Another reason I tow with it up when I can is
to avoid all the people coming over to watch, ask questions, etc. when
doing this. With the roof up, I can just launch and be on my way and
avoid all that. Finally, I had to make some additional outside corner
covers to get them to stop leaking. I could not seem to get the cabin
corners to not leak without doing this. This means that after the
cabin is unfolded I have to go on the outside and screw on these
additional pieces, so that any water would have to get around two sets
of seals. I've never had any leakage problems on any of my other,
permanent cabin boats. Still, I am glad I don't have all that height
when towing those long distances.
Bob
Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "hobyarr" <knic0014@...> wrote:
Darrell,
I wrote to Phil and asked him if, since I was not doing an add on, I
should just make the side panels that extra width. He told me that he
thought it was better to build the boat as original, then add the
double bottoms. Since he is the designer, I did it his way. I think
the foam does two things. Worst case scenario, you have at at least
three unsinkable "logs" to keep you afloat:O It also acts a good
insulation, both from frigid water, and probably helps deaden the
sound of the water slapping when pounding into waves. If you make the
hull without the double bottom by making the panels higher and raising
the deck you will be too high up for good seating, since the bridge
deck forms the seat bottoms. Anyway, I did it as Phil suggested and am
happy with it. You really don't want anymore storage as it is easy to
overload as it is. The storage areas in the sponsons and under the
fore and aft decks and under the counters holds more than you should
be taking if you really want to try anything other than displacement
speeds.
I am using the suggested Yamaha 25 HP High Thrust. When I first
launched I was able to get up to 14 MPH with it. Then I just kept
filling up all that space:)and now the fastest I have been able to go
was 12. If against a strong wind and/or current, only 10. It sucks a
lot more gas at those speeds, so I only do that If necessary to get to
some protection if it is kicking up. Usually I am at half throttle
with give me about 5 to 6 MPH, again depending on conditions. and I
get about 7MPG at that setting. A lot of my favorite cruising is way
slower. I like getting really close to shore and slowing down to
about 2 to 2 1/2 so I can spot the wildlife better, which is what I
enjoy. At this speed I get about 10 1/2MPG. Still now what consider
good, since I know gas IS going to go back to $4.00 a gallon
eventually. I am considering trying the 9.9 high thrust instead. I
know that means back to displacement speeds only, but that is where I
do 90% of my boating. John Bartlett (SP?) uses that on his Bantam
down in Florida and I bet he gets at least 12 to 14 mpg. John, if you
read this post maybe you can tell us what you get!
The gas mileage is my only real complaint about this boat, which is
why I am thinking of changing engines.
The folding cabin. I have written this before, but unless you are
going to do a lot of long distance towing, like I do, I would not
bother. It is the most complicated part of building this boat. Since
I tow 2000 miles each way in the winter I think it is worth it. At
home I leave it up for towing, even if the distance is 80 miles or so.
Part of the reason is that, while it is real easy to crank up and
down, the roof floats on the four cables, and unless you are perfectly
level, and you never are, when you fold down the side panels and start
lowering roof, it is off center. Not a problem with two people as one
can stay inside to push things into place while the other is outside
on the winch. I am usually by myself and have had to get creative to
get things into place. Another reason I tow with it up when I can is
to avoid all the people coming over to watch, ask questions, etc. when
doing this. With the roof up, I can just launch and be on my way and
avoid all that. Finally, I had to make some additional outside corner
covers to get them to stop leaking. I could not seem to get the cabin
corners to not leak without doing this. This means that after the
cabin is unfolded I have to go on the outside and screw on these
additional pieces, so that any water would have to get around two sets
of seals. I've never had any leakage problems on any of my other,
permanent cabin boats. Still, I am glad I don't have all that height
when towing those long distances.
Bob
Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "hobyarr" <knic0014@...> wrote:
>
> Hello Bob - Checked out that article in detail, top stuff and more
> good info. Had glanced at it before and is one reason for my interest
> in Bantam.
> A few more questions
> Why the double bottom, is it something to do with ply sheet size, or
> height to seat, or flotation, safety if damage hull or what. Could
> this space be used for storage, water,composting head etc.
>
> What size motor do you run and do you have any estimates of speed and
> fuel consumption at 1/2 and full throttle.
> How long does it take to raise the roof and how fiddly is it - This
> is for pulling up on the side of the road and camping in it.
> Bound to have more questions.
> Thanks - Darrell
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Slimak" <otter55806@> wrote:
> >
> > Darrell,
> > The post was getting too long, so started over.
> > Yes, the re designed doubled bottoms comes with the plans. That 1" to
> > hull and 4" to sponsons is not correct. As Bolger designed it you are
> > adding something like 6" to the center hull hull and 7" to the
> > sponsons. As originally designed these was only about 6 inches from
> > the water to the bridge deck, now there is about 12", depending on how
> > loaded you are. Yes, you glue hull side extentions to the hulls, then
> > glue in foam, then the second bottom. It certainly adds complexity to
> > the building, weight to the boat, and height on the trailer. However,
> > I have not had any problems launching as long as the ramp is inclined
> > decently. Yes, that is the problem with small cats, no standing space
> > except at the hatch. Still, that big bed in the middle must be nice.
> > Walking down the center in a tri gives yous standing headroom without
> > the excessive height of a pontoon. That's one thing I don't like about
> > that Gougemaran, which is really just a fancy pontoon boat. All the
> > cabin, such as it is, is above the hulls making for even more windage.
> > You are not standing down inside the hulls, except for, apparently,
> > the head. If you think of anymore questions, ask. If you want to see
> > some photos of the boat on my cruise in Florida you can check at the
> > duckworksmagazine.com site. Click on features, then archives, then
> > scroll to Jan '08.
> > Bob
> >
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "hobyarr" <knic0014@...> wrote:
>
> Hello Bob - Checked out that article in detail, top stuff and more
> good info. Had glanced at it before and is one reason for my interest
> in Bantam.
> A few more questions
> Why the double bottom, is it something to do with ply sheet size, or
> height to seat, or flotation, safety if damage hull or what. Could
> this space be used for storage, water,composting head etc.
>
> What size motor do you run and do you have any estimates of speed and
> fuel consumption at 1/2 and full throttle.
> How long does it take to raise the roof and how fiddly is it - This
> is for pulling up on the side of the road and camping in it.
> Bound to have more questions.
> Thanks - Darrell
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Slimak" <otter55806@> wrote:
> >
> > Darrell,
> > The post was getting too long, so started over.
> > Yes, the re designed doubled bottoms comes with the plans. That 1" to
> > hull and 4" to sponsons is not correct. As Bolger designed it you are
> > adding something like 6" to the center hull hull and 7" to the
> > sponsons. As originally designed these was only about 6 inches from
> > the water to the bridge deck, now there is about 12", depending on how
> > loaded you are. Yes, you glue hull side extentions to the hulls, then
> > glue in foam, then the second bottom. It certainly adds complexity to
> > the building, weight to the boat, and height on the trailer. However,
> > I have not had any problems launching as long as the ramp is inclined
> > decently. Yes, that is the problem with small cats, no standing space
> > except at the hatch. Still, that big bed in the middle must be nice.
> > Walking down the center in a tri gives yous standing headroom without
> > the excessive height of a pontoon. That's one thing I don't like about
> > that Gougemaran, which is really just a fancy pontoon boat. All the
> > cabin, such as it is, is above the hulls making for even more windage.
> > You are not standing down inside the hulls, except for, apparently,
> > the head. If you think of anymore questions, ask. If you want to see
> > some photos of the boat on my cruise in Florida you can check at the
> > duckworksmagazine.com site. Click on features, then archives, then
> > scroll to Jan '08.
> > Bob
> >
>
Hello Bob - Checked out that article in detail, top stuff and more
good info. Had glanced at it before and is one reason for my interest
in Bantam.
A few more questions
Why the double bottom, is it something to do with ply sheet size, or
height to seat, or flotation, safety if damage hull or what. Could
this space be used for storage, water,composting head etc.
What size motor do you run and do you have any estimates of speed and
fuel consumption at 1/2 and full throttle.
How long does it take to raise the roof and how fiddly is it - This
is for pulling up on the side of the road and camping in it.
Bound to have more questions.
Thanks - Darrell
good info. Had glanced at it before and is one reason for my interest
in Bantam.
A few more questions
Why the double bottom, is it something to do with ply sheet size, or
height to seat, or flotation, safety if damage hull or what. Could
this space be used for storage, water,composting head etc.
What size motor do you run and do you have any estimates of speed and
fuel consumption at 1/2 and full throttle.
How long does it take to raise the roof and how fiddly is it - This
is for pulling up on the side of the road and camping in it.
Bound to have more questions.
Thanks - Darrell
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Slimak" <otter55806@...> wrote:
>
> Darrell,
> The post was getting too long, so started over.
> Yes, the re designed doubled bottoms comes with the plans. That 1" to
> hull and 4" to sponsons is not correct. As Bolger designed it you are
> adding something like 6" to the center hull hull and 7" to the
> sponsons. As originally designed these was only about 6 inches from
> the water to the bridge deck, now there is about 12", depending on how
> loaded you are. Yes, you glue hull side extentions to the hulls, then
> glue in foam, then the second bottom. It certainly adds complexity to
> the building, weight to the boat, and height on the trailer. However,
> I have not had any problems launching as long as the ramp is inclined
> decently. Yes, that is the problem with small cats, no standing space
> except at the hatch. Still, that big bed in the middle must be nice.
> Walking down the center in a tri gives yous standing headroom without
> the excessive height of a pontoon. That's one thing I don't like about
> that Gougemaran, which is really just a fancy pontoon boat. All the
> cabin, such as it is, is above the hulls making for even more windage.
> You are not standing down inside the hulls, except for, apparently,
> the head. If you think of anymore questions, ask. If you want to see
> some photos of the boat on my cruise in Florida you can check at the
> duckworksmagazine.com site. Click on features, then archives, then
> scroll to Jan '08.
> Bob
>
Darrell,
The post was getting too long, so started over.
Yes, the re designed doubled bottoms comes with the plans. That 1" to
hull and 4" to sponsons is not correct. As Bolger designed it you are
adding something like 6" to the center hull hull and 7" to the
sponsons. As originally designed these was only about 6 inches from
the water to the bridge deck, now there is about 12", depending on how
loaded you are. Yes, you glue hull side extentions to the hulls, then
glue in foam, then the second bottom. It certainly adds complexity to
the building, weight to the boat, and height on the trailer. However,
I have not had any problems launching as long as the ramp is inclined
decently. Yes, that is the problem with small cats, no standing space
except at the hatch. Still, that big bed in the middle must be nice.
Walking down the center in a tri gives yous standing headroom without
the excessive height of a pontoon. That's one thing I don't like about
that Gougemaran, which is really just a fancy pontoon boat. All the
cabin, such as it is, is above the hulls making for even more windage.
You are not standing down inside the hulls, except for, apparently,
the head. If you think of anymore questions, ask. If you want to see
some photos of the boat on my cruise in Florida you can check at the
duckworksmagazine.com site. Click on features, then archives, then
scroll to Jan '08.
Bob
The post was getting too long, so started over.
Yes, the re designed doubled bottoms comes with the plans. That 1" to
hull and 4" to sponsons is not correct. As Bolger designed it you are
adding something like 6" to the center hull hull and 7" to the
sponsons. As originally designed these was only about 6 inches from
the water to the bridge deck, now there is about 12", depending on how
loaded you are. Yes, you glue hull side extentions to the hulls, then
glue in foam, then the second bottom. It certainly adds complexity to
the building, weight to the boat, and height on the trailer. However,
I have not had any problems launching as long as the ramp is inclined
decently. Yes, that is the problem with small cats, no standing space
except at the hatch. Still, that big bed in the middle must be nice.
Walking down the center in a tri gives yous standing headroom without
the excessive height of a pontoon. That's one thing I don't like about
that Gougemaran, which is really just a fancy pontoon boat. All the
cabin, such as it is, is above the hulls making for even more windage.
You are not standing down inside the hulls, except for, apparently,
the head. If you think of anymore questions, ask. If you want to see
some photos of the boat on my cruise in Florida you can check at the
duckworksmagazine.com site. Click on features, then archives, then
scroll to Jan '08.
Bob