eskimo digression, was: RE: [bolger] Re: Launchings: Teal
When I mentioned loading causing a boat to turn upwind, I was referring to
fore/aft loading - many sea kayaks are designed with the cockpit too far
forward, which weights the bow and makes them 'weathercock'. This can be
quite annoying and tiring when paddling in any direction except into the
wind. This is usually remedied by installing a rudder, something the
original eskimos never used, as they desired this effect, since they usually
approached prey from downwind and wanted a self-tending boat to keep their
hands free for throwing harpoons, etc. But in a touring kayak it's
undesireable, and many manufacturers do not seem to grasp this; as a
retro-grouch kayak designer and builder, I consider the need for a rudder in
a sea kayak as evidence of a design flaw in the boat. But anyway, I digress!
Paul
Paul Lefebvre
The Woods Hole Research Center
P.O. Box 296
13 Church St. (UPS/FEDEX delivery only)
Woods Hole, MA 02543 USA
(508)540-9900; fax (508)540-9700
paul@...http://www.whrc.org
fore/aft loading - many sea kayaks are designed with the cockpit too far
forward, which weights the bow and makes them 'weathercock'. This can be
quite annoying and tiring when paddling in any direction except into the
wind. This is usually remedied by installing a rudder, something the
original eskimos never used, as they desired this effect, since they usually
approached prey from downwind and wanted a self-tending boat to keep their
hands free for throwing harpoons, etc. But in a touring kayak it's
undesireable, and many manufacturers do not seem to grasp this; as a
retro-grouch kayak designer and builder, I consider the need for a rudder in
a sea kayak as evidence of a design flaw in the boat. But anyway, I digress!
Paul
Paul Lefebvre
The Woods Hole Research Center
P.O. Box 296
13 Church St. (UPS/FEDEX delivery only)
Woods Hole, MA 02543 USA
(508)540-9900; fax (508)540-9700
paul@...http://www.whrc.org
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DGO [mailto:oswald@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2000 9:29 PM
> To:bolger@egroups.com
> Subject: [bolger] Re: Launchings: Teal
>
>
> On pulling to starboard:
>
> I think it was loaded evenly from port to starboard. There was very
> little wind in the valley with the duckpond. I think it is the skeg
> being off that is the "trouble," however I think I will just leave
> it.
> Putting the leeboard off the port side should balance it for sailing.
>
> DGO
>
>
>
>
> --- Inbolger@egroups.com, "Paul A. Lefebvre, Jr." <paul@w...> wrote:
> > Great story! Launchings are some of the best moments in life.
> > Congratulations!
> >
> > As for the pulling to starboard, was there any wind, and if so, did
> it turn
> > to starboard on all tacks? With my homebuilt strip kayaks I've
> found
> that if
> > the fore/aft balance is not correct, they sometimes will tend to
> curve to
> > windward, or more rarely, downwind.... this is easily remedied! If
> it's not
> > so simple, I can sympathize with you, as my best-looking kayak
> pulled badly
> > to starboard....... I managed to fair the hull below the waterline
> both bow
> > and stern, then hid the fairing on my otherwise bright-finished
> boat
> with
> > West system black graphite coating. This has nearly corrected the
> problem,
> > except when I have a stiff wind in the forward/starboard quarter,
> and then
> > it wants to turn, and my arms get an asymetrical workout. With a
> sailboat
> > it's probably not as critical......
> >
> > best of luck to you!
> >
> > Paul
> >
> > Paul Lefebvre
> > paul@w...http://www.whrc.org
>
>
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On pulling to starboard:
I think it was loaded evenly from port to starboard. There was very
little wind in the valley with the duckpond. I think it is the skeg
being off that is the "trouble," however I think I will just leave
it.
Putting the leeboard off the port side should balance it for sailing.
DGO
I think it was loaded evenly from port to starboard. There was very
little wind in the valley with the duckpond. I think it is the skeg
being off that is the "trouble," however I think I will just leave
it.
Putting the leeboard off the port side should balance it for sailing.
DGO
--- Inbolger@egroups.com, "Paul A. Lefebvre, Jr." <paul@w...> wrote:
> Great story! Launchings are some of the best moments in life.
> Congratulations!
>
> As for the pulling to starboard, was there any wind, and if so, did
it turn
> to starboard on all tacks? With my homebuilt strip kayaks I've
found
that if
> the fore/aft balance is not correct, they sometimes will tend to
curve to
> windward, or more rarely, downwind.... this is easily remedied! If
it's not
> so simple, I can sympathize with you, as my best-looking kayak
pulled badly
> to starboard....... I managed to fair the hull below the waterline
both bow
> and stern, then hid the fairing on my otherwise bright-finished
boat
with
> West system black graphite coating. This has nearly corrected the
problem,
> except when I have a stiff wind in the forward/starboard quarter,
and then
> it wants to turn, and my arms get an asymetrical workout. With a
sailboat
> it's probably not as critical......
>
> best of luck to you!
>
> Paul
>
> Paul Lefebvre
> paul@w...http://www.whrc.org
Great story! Launchings are some of the best moments in life.
Congratulations!
As for the pulling to starboard, was there any wind, and if so, did it turn
to starboard on all tacks? With my homebuilt strip kayaks I've found that if
the fore/aft balance is not correct, they sometimes will tend to curve to
windward, or more rarely, downwind.... this is easily remedied! If it's not
so simple, I can sympathize with you, as my best-looking kayak pulled badly
to starboard....... I managed to fair the hull below the waterline both bow
and stern, then hid the fairing on my otherwise bright-finished boat with
West system black graphite coating. This has nearly corrected the problem,
except when I have a stiff wind in the forward/starboard quarter, and then
it wants to turn, and my arms get an asymetrical workout. With a sailboat
it's probably not as critical......
best of luck to you!
Paul
Paul Lefebvre
paul@...http://www.whrc.org
Congratulations!
As for the pulling to starboard, was there any wind, and if so, did it turn
to starboard on all tacks? With my homebuilt strip kayaks I've found that if
the fore/aft balance is not correct, they sometimes will tend to curve to
windward, or more rarely, downwind.... this is easily remedied! If it's not
so simple, I can sympathize with you, as my best-looking kayak pulled badly
to starboard....... I managed to fair the hull below the waterline both bow
and stern, then hid the fairing on my otherwise bright-finished boat with
West system black graphite coating. This has nearly corrected the problem,
except when I have a stiff wind in the forward/starboard quarter, and then
it wants to turn, and my arms get an asymetrical workout. With a sailboat
it's probably not as critical......
best of luck to you!
Paul
Paul Lefebvre
paul@...http://www.whrc.org
Nice posting. Glad to hear the toddler liked it.
The pulling to starboard is a concern, though, and should be given some
thought. Two ideas:
(1) Assymetric loading of boat. Unlikely, but, bring a level and
see.
(2) Skeg is curved. Fairly likely. If it's a big problem, I
would think about fixing it. This means either adding wood, or
subtracting wood. Subtraction is easier.
-Chris
The pulling to starboard is a concern, though, and should be given some
thought. Two ideas:
(1) Assymetric loading of boat. Unlikely, but, bring a level and
see.
(2) Skeg is curved. Fairly likely. If it's a big problem, I
would think about fixing it. This means either adding wood, or
subtracting wood. Subtraction is easier.
-Chris
Launched the Teal for the first time today.
I wanted to take it down to the river for a sail, but
She Who's Whim is Law insisted we go to the duckpond first
"just to see if it will float." I wish I had known about that
whim before I loaded all the sailing bits. The duckpond is not
big enough to sail in.
The boat sits nicely on top of a Saturn wagon. Getting it there is
a different story, since the beam of the boat is wider than the roof
rack. At the ends of the boat it is narrow enough to fit. If the rack
was wide enought, I could have just slid it on, as it was it needed
to be lifted over the 1/2 point. (we have a picture...)
At the duckpound, we got the boat off the car, putting the first
dings in the gunwales. The duckpond is about 20' lower than the road,
so I carried it down. (I don't want to know what my came out to, but
design weight on a Teal is about 100 lb - that MUST include the
sailing bits) Loaded it up - oars, pfds, cushion, cooler (coleman has
a new cooler out that is the size and shape needed for the Teal
moveable rowing bench) and He Who Must Do Things For Himself. She
Who's Whim is Law decided to stay on the shore and take pictures. (I
offered to take her along. I guess she really WAS wondering if it
would float.) It floated
Rowed around for couple hours. My son enjoyed it (At least he gave
the kind of staring rapt attention that toddlers sometimes do when
they are fascinated with something. He got the cushion, and just sort
of sat staring, rocking as I pulled the oars.) I need to put markers
on the oars so I row more evenly. I find it hard to keep a course
since I really tend to pull asymetrically when looking over my
shoulder to see where I am going. Also, when not rowed, the boat
tends to pull starboard. Still, it is the best rowing boat I have
used. There is practially no wake - just 3 trails of bubbles (chimes
and skeg). It rows easily, and can cross the pond in the long
direction in about 20 strokes... Most importantly is that it will
coast a good distance (although it starts to turn...so I end up
rowing more often with the starboard oar)
Evenually it was naptime, and so I dragged the boat (designed for 100
lb), fussy toddler (~30 lb)and assorted gear up 20', though a gate,
and back in to car. Putting the boat away later, my son was
wandering around helping daddy carry small objects.
"Put the life jacket in the boat"
'boat, boat, boat, want boat'
"Put daddy's life jacket in the boat"
'boat, boat, boat, want boat'
"Put mommies life jacket in the boat"
'boat, boat, boat, want boat'
"Put the oarlocks in the boat"
'boat, boat, boat, want boat'
"Put the sail in the boat"
'boat, boat, boat, want boat'
"Boat has to go bye bye now"
'bye bye boat'
A nice first outting.
DGO
I wanted to take it down to the river for a sail, but
She Who's Whim is Law insisted we go to the duckpond first
"just to see if it will float." I wish I had known about that
whim before I loaded all the sailing bits. The duckpond is not
big enough to sail in.
The boat sits nicely on top of a Saturn wagon. Getting it there is
a different story, since the beam of the boat is wider than the roof
rack. At the ends of the boat it is narrow enough to fit. If the rack
was wide enought, I could have just slid it on, as it was it needed
to be lifted over the 1/2 point. (we have a picture...)
At the duckpound, we got the boat off the car, putting the first
dings in the gunwales. The duckpond is about 20' lower than the road,
so I carried it down. (I don't want to know what my came out to, but
design weight on a Teal is about 100 lb - that MUST include the
sailing bits) Loaded it up - oars, pfds, cushion, cooler (coleman has
a new cooler out that is the size and shape needed for the Teal
moveable rowing bench) and He Who Must Do Things For Himself. She
Who's Whim is Law decided to stay on the shore and take pictures. (I
offered to take her along. I guess she really WAS wondering if it
would float.) It floated
Rowed around for couple hours. My son enjoyed it (At least he gave
the kind of staring rapt attention that toddlers sometimes do when
they are fascinated with something. He got the cushion, and just sort
of sat staring, rocking as I pulled the oars.) I need to put markers
on the oars so I row more evenly. I find it hard to keep a course
since I really tend to pull asymetrically when looking over my
shoulder to see where I am going. Also, when not rowed, the boat
tends to pull starboard. Still, it is the best rowing boat I have
used. There is practially no wake - just 3 trails of bubbles (chimes
and skeg). It rows easily, and can cross the pond in the long
direction in about 20 strokes... Most importantly is that it will
coast a good distance (although it starts to turn...so I end up
rowing more often with the starboard oar)
Evenually it was naptime, and so I dragged the boat (designed for 100
lb), fussy toddler (~30 lb)and assorted gear up 20', though a gate,
and back in to car. Putting the boat away later, my son was
wandering around helping daddy carry small objects.
"Put the life jacket in the boat"
'boat, boat, boat, want boat'
"Put daddy's life jacket in the boat"
'boat, boat, boat, want boat'
"Put mommies life jacket in the boat"
'boat, boat, boat, want boat'
"Put the oarlocks in the boat"
'boat, boat, boat, want boat'
"Put the sail in the boat"
'boat, boat, boat, want boat'
"Boat has to go bye bye now"
'bye bye boat'
A nice first outting.
DGO