Re: new photos of v-bottom dinghy
Of course, my favorite V-bottom design, Cartoon 40, but it's not a dinghy . . .
Gary
Gary
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "pvanderwaart" <pvanderwaart@...> wrote:
>
> > The reason I can guess that Bolger doesn't have a "V bottom" four
> > panel dinghy in his portfolio is that three and five strake dinghy's
> > set flat on the beach, where four strake dinghy's get tippy when you
> > set them down on hard ground while beaching.
>
> Of course there are plenty of Bolger V-bottom designs. It's a question of what is a dinghy, and what isn't. The Thomaston Galley isn't, I guess. There was the design that was meant as a lifeboat for Resolution: Crystal, IIRC. That's a tender, but I guess not quite a dinghy. Poohsticks can be used as a dinghy. The Dart dinghy isn't a tender.
>
Elegant Punt is three strakes Bruce, but your right every designer has a
little V bottom 4 strake pram in his/her portfolio except Bolger. Having
owned and used an El Toro and other 4 strake dinghies and an EP, I can't
see any improvement over the EP.
HJ
Bruce Hallman wrote:
little V bottom 4 strake pram in his/her portfolio except Bolger. Having
owned and used an El Toro and other 4 strake dinghies and an EP, I can't
see any improvement over the EP.
HJ
Bruce Hallman wrote:
> Thanks for the measurements Pierce. My 'eyeball guess' Freeship El
> Toro model matches within an inch or less. You describe about an inch
> of LOA being transom overhang, which works out to effectively a 7 foot
> 10 inch boat without the overhand and the side strakes expand to 8
> feet 0 3/4" inch.
>
> Here is an expanded panel diagram.
>
>http://www.flickr.com/photos/hallman/3398599753/
>
> In essence, the "official class measurement rules" racing El Toro
> dinghy is a tightest possible boat built from an 8 foot sheet of
> plywood. (fudge both ends by 3/8" and it fits)
>
> Interestingly, I cannot think of a Bolger dinghy which has this 'four
> strake' construction. PCB is big on three strake (June Bug, Teal,
> Gloucester Gull, etc.) and five strake (Elegant Punt, Sweet Pea, Car
> Topper, etc.), but not four strake. Which design am I forgetting?
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 8:56 AM, Pierce Nichols <rocketgeek@...> wrote:
>
>> Ok, sorry for the delay -- life happened. :) Here are the dimensions:
>>
>> 1) LOA 7'11-1/2". I measured from the front lip of the fore transom
>> (it sticks up and out a bit) to the aft transom, over the forward
>> coaming.
>> 2) BOA 3'10", to the outside of the rub rails (I didn't have a
>> convenient way to hold the tape otherwise, where it's currently
>> stored)
>> 3) Beam at the top of the aft transom is 3'2" to the outside of the planking
>> 4) Beam at the top of the fore transom is 1'8-1/2" to the outside of
>> the planking.
>>
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
> The reason I can guess that Bolger doesn't have a "V bottom" fourOf course there are plenty of Bolger V-bottom designs. It's a question of what is a dinghy, and what isn't. The Thomaston Galley isn't, I guess. There was the design that was meant as a lifeboat for Resolution: Crystal, IIRC. That's a tender, but I guess not quite a dinghy. Poohsticks can be used as a dinghy. The Dart dinghy isn't a tender.
> panel dinghy in his portfolio is that three and five strake dinghy's
> set flat on the beach, where four strake dinghy's get tippy when you
> set them down on hard ground while beaching.
On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 12:13 PM, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
was thinking "Nymph" which is a five panel.
The reason I can guess that Bolger doesn't have a "V bottom" four
panel dinghy in his portfolio is that three and five strake dinghy's
set flat on the beach, where four strake dinghy's get tippy when you
set them down on hard ground while beaching.
> Elegant Punt is three strakes Bruce, but your right every designer has aYes, you are right, EB is three panel. I typed "Elegant Punt" when I
> little V bottom 4 strake pram in his/her portfolio except Bolger.
was thinking "Nymph" which is a five panel.
The reason I can guess that Bolger doesn't have a "V bottom" four
panel dinghy in his portfolio is that three and five strake dinghy's
set flat on the beach, where four strake dinghy's get tippy when you
set them down on hard ground while beaching.
Thanks for the measurements Pierce. My 'eyeball guess' Freeship El
Toro model matches within an inch or less. You describe about an inch
of LOA being transom overhang, which works out to effectively a 7 foot
10 inch boat without the overhand and the side strakes expand to 8
feet 0 3/4" inch.
Here is an expanded panel diagram.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/hallman/3398599753/
In essence, the "official class measurement rules" racing El Toro
dinghy is a tightest possible boat built from an 8 foot sheet of
plywood. (fudge both ends by 3/8" and it fits)
Interestingly, I cannot think of a Bolger dinghy which has this 'four
strake' construction. PCB is big on three strake (June Bug, Teal,
Gloucester Gull, etc.) and five strake (Elegant Punt, Sweet Pea, Car
Topper, etc.), but not four strake. Which design am I forgetting?
Toro model matches within an inch or less. You describe about an inch
of LOA being transom overhang, which works out to effectively a 7 foot
10 inch boat without the overhand and the side strakes expand to 8
feet 0 3/4" inch.
Here is an expanded panel diagram.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/hallman/3398599753/
In essence, the "official class measurement rules" racing El Toro
dinghy is a tightest possible boat built from an 8 foot sheet of
plywood. (fudge both ends by 3/8" and it fits)
Interestingly, I cannot think of a Bolger dinghy which has this 'four
strake' construction. PCB is big on three strake (June Bug, Teal,
Gloucester Gull, etc.) and five strake (Elegant Punt, Sweet Pea, Car
Topper, etc.), but not four strake. Which design am I forgetting?
On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 8:56 AM, Pierce Nichols <rocketgeek@...> wrote:
> Ok, sorry for the delay -- life happened. :) Here are the dimensions:
>
> 1) LOA 7'11-1/2". I measured from the front lip of the fore transom
> (it sticks up and out a bit) to the aft transom, over the forward
> coaming.
> 2) BOA 3'10", to the outside of the rub rails (I didn't have a
> convenient way to hold the tape otherwise, where it's currently
> stored)
> 3) Beam at the top of the aft transom is 3'2" to the outside of the planking
> 4) Beam at the top of the fore transom is 1'8-1/2" to the outside of
> the planking.
>
Ok, sorry for the delay -- life happened. :) Here are the dimensions:
1) LOA 7'11-1/2". I measured from the front lip of the fore transom
(it sticks up and out a bit) to the aft transom, over the forward
coaming.
2) BOA 3'10", to the outside of the rub rails (I didn't have a
convenient way to hold the tape otherwise, where it's currently
stored)
3) Beam at the top of the aft transom is 3'2" to the outside of the planking
4) Beam at the top of the fore transom is 1'8-1/2" to the outside of
the planking.
-p
1) LOA 7'11-1/2". I measured from the front lip of the fore transom
(it sticks up and out a bit) to the aft transom, over the forward
coaming.
2) BOA 3'10", to the outside of the rub rails (I didn't have a
convenient way to hold the tape otherwise, where it's currently
stored)
3) Beam at the top of the aft transom is 3'2" to the outside of the planking
4) Beam at the top of the fore transom is 1'8-1/2" to the outside of
the planking.
-p
On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 12:58 PM, Bruce Hallman <bruce@...> wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 10:56 AM, Pierce Nichols <rocketgeek@...> wrote:
>> The inside of the boat is varnished, so even a splice under the front
>> deck would be visible. I'll take a look when I get home tonight and
>> measure it for you.
>
> Don't go to too much trouble, but I am curious, thanks in advance.
>
> Also, is the over all length 7'11"? And, I am curious as to the width
> of both transoms, and the width of the midship widest part, and its
> distance from either end.
>
> (If you can't guess, I am trying to do a model.)
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
Dear all,
I was on vacation last week and now I am surprised about the discussion around the dinghy I am currently builing.
This dinghy is just an exercise for me to get familiar with handling epoxy and all the other stuff to make a proper boat. The next project will be a Phil Bolger Chebacco which plans I purchased last year with HH Payson.
I found the plans for the dinghy on the web:
www.webmoxie.com/seawind/dinghy/dinghy.htm
I guess it is the most simple type of boat to build for the first time. You just have to transfer the measurments from the plan on a standard sheet of plywood (8' x 4' / 1,22 m x 2,44 m). But that's where the exercise began for me. I had to convert all measuremts from imperial to metric because I was not able to get proper imperial measurement tools in Germany (for a reasonalbe price). Cut out (with a GOOD jigsaw)and stitched together the single peaces with cable ties. It is not necessary to build mold or frames. The shape of the boat is given my the form of the single parts.
All the interior parts like the daggerboard case I built by my own without plan. I will put a junk rigg on the boat.
Simple pram dinghies like that are available by nearly every designer. You can get free plans like the already mentioned D4 or by paying a little fee for more detailed plans (e.g.Selway Fisher).
I put in the pics to encourage other beginners to go a simliar way. It´s a good project to work with plans but also to improvise a little bit. Even it is not an origin Bolger design it is the Bolger approach.
Kind regards
George
I was on vacation last week and now I am surprised about the discussion around the dinghy I am currently builing.
This dinghy is just an exercise for me to get familiar with handling epoxy and all the other stuff to make a proper boat. The next project will be a Phil Bolger Chebacco which plans I purchased last year with HH Payson.
I found the plans for the dinghy on the web:
www.webmoxie.com/seawind/dinghy/dinghy.htm
I guess it is the most simple type of boat to build for the first time. You just have to transfer the measurments from the plan on a standard sheet of plywood (8' x 4' / 1,22 m x 2,44 m). But that's where the exercise began for me. I had to convert all measuremts from imperial to metric because I was not able to get proper imperial measurement tools in Germany (for a reasonalbe price). Cut out (with a GOOD jigsaw)and stitched together the single peaces with cable ties. It is not necessary to build mold or frames. The shape of the boat is given my the form of the single parts.
All the interior parts like the daggerboard case I built by my own without plan. I will put a junk rigg on the boat.
Simple pram dinghies like that are available by nearly every designer. You can get free plans like the already mentioned D4 or by paying a little fee for more detailed plans (e.g.Selway Fisher).
I put in the pics to encourage other beginners to go a simliar way. It´s a good project to work with plans but also to improvise a little bit. Even it is not an origin Bolger design it is the Bolger approach.
Kind regards
George
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@...> wrote:
>
> On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 3:24 PM, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
> > That is a slick jig, You wonder if the sheer is a straight edge before
> > the side plank is cut or whether there is an expansion, that sheer would
> > be very hard to measure and mark in place with the notch in the jig to
> > hold the gunnel and side plank.
> >
> > HJ
>
> "slick jig" I agree. It makes me wonder what the measuring rule
> dimensions are for the El Toro. When I model it in FreeShip it seems
> like a type of panel boat that could be Bolger style "instant boat"
> panel constructed. Meaning, that the shapes of the panels seem they
> could be "natural sprung", and that the temporary braces of the jig
> might not all be needed to force the shape of the hull to be anything
> unnatural, other than the 'natural springy" bended curve across a
> single midship mold.
>
That is a slick jig, You wonder if the sheer is a straight edge before
the side plank is cut or whether there is an expansion, that sheer would
be very hard to measure and mark in place with the notch in the jig to
hold the gunnel and side plank.
HJ
Bruce Hallman wrote:
the side plank is cut or whether there is an expansion, that sheer would
be very hard to measure and mark in place with the notch in the jig to
hold the gunnel and side plank.
HJ
Bruce Hallman wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 11:35 AM, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
>
>> Bruce
>>
>> The El Toro was conceived as a plywood boat from the start,
>>
>
> For sure. Here are Flickr photos of some guy building an El Toro
> from plywood.
> You can see in this photo that the side panel "just" cuts out of an 8
> foot sheet of plywood.
>
>
>http://www.flickr.com/photos/aaronstj/3034197480/in/set-72157610149093743/
>
>
>
>
On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 3:24 PM, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
dimensions are for the El Toro. When I model it in FreeShip it seems
like a type of panel boat that could be Bolger style "instant boat"
panel constructed. Meaning, that the shapes of the panels seem they
could be "natural sprung", and that the temporary braces of the jig
might not all be needed to force the shape of the hull to be anything
unnatural, other than the 'natural springy" bended curve across a
single midship mold.
> That is a slick jig, You wonder if the sheer is a straight edge before"slick jig" I agree. It makes me wonder what the measuring rule
> the side plank is cut or whether there is an expansion, that sheer would
> be very hard to measure and mark in place with the notch in the jig to
> hold the gunnel and side plank.
>
> HJ
dimensions are for the El Toro. When I model it in FreeShip it seems
like a type of panel boat that could be Bolger style "instant boat"
panel constructed. Meaning, that the shapes of the panels seem they
could be "natural sprung", and that the temporary braces of the jig
might not all be needed to force the shape of the hull to be anything
unnatural, other than the 'natural springy" bended curve across a
single midship mold.
On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 11:35 AM, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
from plywood.
You can see in this photo that the side panel "just" cuts out of an 8
foot sheet of plywood.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/aaronstj/3034197480/in/set-72157610149093743/
> BruceFor sure. Here are Flickr photos of some guy building an El Toro
>
> The El Toro was conceived as a plywood boat from the start,
from plywood.
You can see in this photo that the side panel "just" cuts out of an 8
foot sheet of plywood.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/aaronstj/3034197480/in/set-72157610149093743/
That is 4¹ X 8¹.Imperial size sheets are bigger than 1.2 X 2.4 metre sheets.
Plywood that we get in New Zealand and sold as 1.2 X 2.4 metre sheets are
often 4¹ X 8¹ (122 cm X 244 cm) because they are made for the American
market.
Stuart.
Plywood that we get in New Zealand and sold as 1.2 X 2.4 metre sheets are
often 4¹ X 8¹ (122 cm X 244 cm) because they are made for the American
market.
Stuart.
On 27/3/09 3:13 AM, "rob" <rob@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> hi I'm living in the Netherlands and here are te metric panels 122 x 244
> greetings
> Rob
>
--
http://www.nomadichome.com
http://keltwegiankiwi.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
The boat was class-legal when it was built, but I don't know how
closely it conforms after half a century. :) I'll measure it and let
you know what I get. I know the Center for Wooden Boats here in
Seattle has a whole mess of them, and AIUI they use the design as the
basis for an introductory building class.
-p
closely it conforms after half a century. :) I'll measure it and let
you know what I get. I know the Center for Wooden Boats here in
Seattle has a whole mess of them, and AIUI they use the design as the
basis for an introductory building class.
-p
On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 12:58 PM, Bruce Hallman <bruce@...> wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 10:56 AM, Pierce Nichols <rocketgeek@...> wrote:
>> The inside of the boat is varnished, so even a splice under the front
>> deck would be visible. I'll take a look when I get home tonight and
>> measure it for you.
>
> Don't go to too much trouble, but I am curious, thanks in advance.
>
> Also, is the over all length 7'11"? And, I am curious as to the width
> of both transoms, and the width of the midship widest part, and its
> distance from either end.
>
> (If you can't guess, I am trying to do a model.)
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 10:56 AM, Pierce Nichols <rocketgeek@...> wrote:
Also, is the over all length 7'11"? And, I am curious as to the width
of both transoms, and the width of the midship widest part, and its
distance from either end.
(If you can't guess, I am trying to do a model.)
> The inside of the boat is varnished, so even a splice under the frontDon't go to too much trouble, but I am curious, thanks in advance.
> deck would be visible. I'll take a look when I get home tonight and
> measure it for you.
Also, is the over all length 7'11"? And, I am curious as to the width
of both transoms, and the width of the midship widest part, and its
distance from either end.
(If you can't guess, I am trying to do a model.)
I built an El Toro as a teenager in a high school class project.
(1960's)
We went to the lumber yard to purchase stock mahogany then available,
and it was 4x8
I remember paying what was then an outrageous $40 per sheet for the
stuff.
This jibes with what a builder on this website reports for his project
http://pweb.jps.net/~u2fletch/eltoro/
Note that he claims his build is class legal, and also that he used
ordinary lumber yard Luan to reach that end.
I include this quote"
"The side pieces were lofted using dimensions extracted from the CAD
plans. I used a bendable spline to make a nice smooth curve
connecting the points. A circular saw was used to cut out both sides
at once. Simple. One sheet of 4x8 ply will give you one side and one
bottom piece with room to spare."
He has included DXF files on his website. see if they match yours.
(1960's)
We went to the lumber yard to purchase stock mahogany then available,
and it was 4x8
I remember paying what was then an outrageous $40 per sheet for the
stuff.
This jibes with what a builder on this website reports for his project
http://pweb.jps.net/~u2fletch/eltoro/
Note that he claims his build is class legal, and also that he used
ordinary lumber yard Luan to reach that end.
I include this quote"
"The side pieces were lofted using dimensions extracted from the CAD
plans. I used a bendable spline to make a nice smooth curve
connecting the points. A circular saw was used to cut out both sides
at once. Simple. One sheet of 4x8 ply will give you one side and one
bottom piece with room to spare."
He has included DXF files on his website. see if they match yours.
>yacht club
> On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 11:41 AM, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
> > El Toro, designed at a late night BS session at the Richmond
>need to
> Anybody build an El Toro? Plugging the dimensions into Free!Ship it
> seems that to achieve a 7 ft 11 in length that the side panels
> be cut from a sheet of plywood 8 feet plus 1 1/2" long, which isnot a
> Bolgeresque efficient use of plywood.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Bruce
The El Toro was conceived as a plywood boat from the start, I should
have mentioned that I am a little closer to the subject than most as my
uncle Bud Coxted was one of the co "designers". I know the one I owned
and greatly abused as a child and teenager did not have splices, those
building them today use 8' sheets of plywood.
http://pweb.jps.net/~u2fletch/eltoro/
I have never built one, but it is looking like I am going to have to
order up a set of plans.
HJ
Bruce Hallman wrote:
The El Toro was conceived as a plywood boat from the start, I should
have mentioned that I am a little closer to the subject than most as my
uncle Bud Coxted was one of the co "designers". I know the one I owned
and greatly abused as a child and teenager did not have splices, those
building them today use 8' sheets of plywood.
http://pweb.jps.net/~u2fletch/eltoro/
I have never built one, but it is looking like I am going to have to
order up a set of plans.
HJ
Bruce Hallman wrote:
> Sn Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 10:06 AM, Patrick Crockett <pcrockett@...> wrote:
>
>> So -- when you have a moment, would you kindly take a flexible tape
>> measure and measure along the gunwale from bow transom to stern transom
>> and see if it is 8 feet or a few inches more?
>>
>>
>
>
> Alternately, I would love to see images of the line drawings/body plan
> for an El Toro dinghy. All I can find to work with on the web are the
> overall dimensions, the race committee obtuse measuring rules, and
> some photographs of the boats in 3D action. Anybody know of a source
> to see the line drawings, or a study plan?
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
The inside of the boat is varnished, so even a splice under the front
deck would be visible. I'll take a look when I get home tonight and
measure it for you.
deck would be visible. I'll take a look when I get home tonight and
measure it for you.
On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 10:09 AM, Bruce Hallman <bruce@...> wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 7:54 AM, Pierce Nichols <rocketgeek@...> wrote:
>> I have an El Toro my grandfather built in the late 1940s, and it is
>> definitely made of plywood. I also don't see any signs of splices in
>> the plywood.
>>
>> -p
>
> I have been toying with the design in Free!Ship and to achieve 7'11"
> LOA, with the bend in the side panel, physically the length measured
> along the curve of the sheerline (which determines the length of the
> side plank) works out in excess of 8 feet by about 1 1/2 inches. I
> don't dispute you, but there is something I am getting wrong with my
> presumptions here. The natural place for the splice, I think, would
> be to add a tiny triangle of plywood at the bow, now-a-days, I would
> use a Payson joint, or it could be scarfed, or even butt jointed with
> the butt strap hidden inside beneath the forward decking.
>
> see isometrics and panel diagram here:
>
>http://www.flickr.com/photos/hallman/tags/eltorodinghy/
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
Sn Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 10:06 AM, Patrick Crockett <pcrockett@...> wrote:
for an El Toro dinghy. All I can find to work with on the web are the
overall dimensions, the race committee obtuse measuring rules, and
some photographs of the boats in 3D action. Anybody know of a source
to see the line drawings, or a study plan?
> So -- when you have a moment, would you kindly take a flexible tapeAlternately, I would love to see images of the line drawings/body plan
> measure and measure along the gunwale from bow transom to stern transom
> and see if it is 8 feet or a few inches more?
>
for an El Toro dinghy. All I can find to work with on the web are the
overall dimensions, the race committee obtuse measuring rules, and
some photographs of the boats in 3D action. Anybody know of a source
to see the line drawings, or a study plan?
On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 7:54 AM, Pierce Nichols <rocketgeek@...> wrote:
LOA, with the bend in the side panel, physically the length measured
along the curve of the sheerline (which determines the length of the
side plank) works out in excess of 8 feet by about 1 1/2 inches. I
don't dispute you, but there is something I am getting wrong with my
presumptions here. The natural place for the splice, I think, would
be to add a tiny triangle of plywood at the bow, now-a-days, I would
use a Payson joint, or it could be scarfed, or even butt jointed with
the butt strap hidden inside beneath the forward decking.
see isometrics and panel diagram here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/hallman/tags/eltorodinghy/
> I have an El Toro my grandfather built in the late 1940s, and it isI have been toying with the design in Free!Ship and to achieve 7'11"
> definitely made of plywood. I also don't see any signs of splices in
> the plywood.
>
> -p
LOA, with the bend in the side panel, physically the length measured
along the curve of the sheerline (which determines the length of the
side plank) works out in excess of 8 feet by about 1 1/2 inches. I
don't dispute you, but there is something I am getting wrong with my
presumptions here. The natural place for the splice, I think, would
be to add a tiny triangle of plywood at the bow, now-a-days, I would
use a Payson joint, or it could be scarfed, or even butt jointed with
the butt strap hidden inside beneath the forward decking.
see isometrics and panel diagram here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/hallman/tags/eltorodinghy/
So -- when you have a moment, would you kindly take a flexible tape
measure and measure along the gunwale from bow transom to stern transom
and see if it is 8 feet or a few inches more?
Pierce Nichols wrote:
measure and measure along the gunwale from bow transom to stern transom
and see if it is 8 feet or a few inches more?
Pierce Nichols wrote:
> I have an El Toro my grandfather built in the late 1940s, and it is
> definitely made of plywood. I also don't see any signs of splices in
> the plywood.
>
> -p
>
>
hi I'm living in the Netherlands and here are te metric panels 122 x 244
greetings
Rob
From: titanicslim
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 2:01 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: new photos of v-bottom dinghy
As I recall, the metric panels are 125 X 250 cm., which comes out to a skosh over 98" long, if somebody would like to check my arithmetic... ?
greetings
Rob
From: titanicslim
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 2:01 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: new photos of v-bottom dinghy
As I recall, the metric panels are 125 X 250 cm., which comes out to a skosh over 98" long, if somebody would like to check my arithmetic... ?
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@...> wrote:
>
> On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 11:41 AM, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
> > El Toro, designed at a late night BS session at the Richmond yacht club
>
> Anybody build an El Toro? Plugging the dimensions into Free!Ship it
> seems that to achieve a 7 ft 11 in length that the side panels need to
> be cut from a sheet of plywood 8 feet plus 1 1/2" long, which is not a
> Bolgeresque efficient use of plywood.
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I have an El Toro my grandfather built in the late 1940s, and it is
definitely made of plywood. I also don't see any signs of splices in
the plywood.
-p
definitely made of plywood. I also don't see any signs of splices in
the plywood.
-p
On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 7:36 AM, Bruce Hallman <bruce@...> wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 7:25 PM, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
>> They for sure didn't have metric panels when they started building El
>> Toro's, small shops built them and they operated on a minimum margin. I
>> am sure that a 8' length of plywood can be used.
>>
>> HJ
>
> Yes, you could splice on a triangle of plywood about the size of your
> hand to make an 8 foot sheet of plywood work. Looking on the El Toro
> Wikipedia page I see that the design originated in 1940, so there is a
> good chance that the first ones were built from wooden planks not
> plywood. I think the reason you see plenty of 7'6" boats in Bolger's
> (and other modern) design lists, as that is the maximum you can cut
> and bend from an 8 foot sheet without a splice.
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
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> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
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On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 7:25 PM, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
hand to make an 8 foot sheet of plywood work. Looking on the El Toro
Wikipedia page I see that the design originated in 1940, so there is a
good chance that the first ones were built from wooden planks not
plywood. I think the reason you see plenty of 7'6" boats in Bolger's
(and other modern) design lists, as that is the maximum you can cut
and bend from an 8 foot sheet without a splice.
> They for sure didn't have metric panels when they started building ElYes, you could splice on a triangle of plywood about the size of your
> Toro's, small shops built them and they operated on a minimum margin. I
> am sure that a 8' length of plywood can be used.
>
> HJ
hand to make an 8 foot sheet of plywood work. Looking on the El Toro
Wikipedia page I see that the design originated in 1940, so there is a
good chance that the first ones were built from wooden planks not
plywood. I think the reason you see plenty of 7'6" boats in Bolger's
(and other modern) design lists, as that is the maximum you can cut
and bend from an 8 foot sheet without a splice.
They for sure didn't have metric panels when they started building El
Toro's, small shops built them and they operated on a minimum margin. I
am sure that a 8' length of plywood can be used.
HJ
titanicslim wrote:
Toro's, small shops built them and they operated on a minimum margin. I
am sure that a 8' length of plywood can be used.
HJ
titanicslim wrote:
> As I recall, the metric panels are 125 X 250 cm., which comes out to a skosh over 98" long, if somebody would like to check my arithmetic... ?
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@...> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 11:41 AM, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
>>
>>> El Toro, designed at a late night BS session at the Richmond yacht club
>>>
>> Anybody build an El Toro? Plugging the dimensions into Free!Ship it
>> seems that to achieve a 7 ft 11 in length that the side panels need to
>> be cut from a sheet of plywood 8 feet plus 1 1/2" long, which is not a
>> Bolgeresque efficient use of plywood.
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
As I recall, the metric panels are 125 X 250 cm., which comes out to a skosh over 98" long, if somebody would like to check my arithmetic... ?
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@...> wrote:
>
> On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 11:41 AM, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
> > El Toro, designed at a late night BS session at the Richmond yacht club
>
> Anybody build an El Toro? Plugging the dimensions into Free!Ship it
> seems that to achieve a 7 ft 11 in length that the side panels need to
> be cut from a sheet of plywood 8 feet plus 1 1/2" long, which is not a
> Bolgeresque efficient use of plywood.
>
They are pulled now, they were there a couple of hours ago, you could
find them in new photo's. Basically a well done stitch and glue hull
that looked identical to a Sabot/ElToro hull with a daggerboard case.
HJ
Bruce Hallman wrote:
find them in new photo's. Basically a well done stitch and glue hull
that looked identical to a Sabot/ElToro hull with a daggerboard case.
HJ
Bruce Hallman wrote:
>> . I'm not sure what picture the OP is referring
>> to, so I can't confirm. :(
>>
>> -p
>>
>
> ditto for me, which photo?
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 11:41 AM, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
seems that to achieve a 7 ft 11 in length that the side panels need to
be cut from a sheet of plywood 8 feet plus 1 1/2" long, which is not a
Bolgeresque efficient use of plywood.
> El Toro, designed at a late night BS session at the Richmond yacht clubAnybody build an El Toro? Plugging the dimensions into Free!Ship it
seems that to achieve a 7 ft 11 in length that the side panels need to
be cut from a sheet of plywood 8 feet plus 1 1/2" long, which is not a
Bolgeresque efficient use of plywood.
El Toro, designed at a late night BS session at the Richmond yacht club
in the late 30's as a junior sail trainer. Called the El Toro because of
its origin in the BS session the insignia is a shovel for shoveling the
bull. Hull was based on the Sabot, it has a deck and a daggerboard to
distinguish it from a Sabot in the original, I guess Sabot's have them
now. They were not built stitch and glue originally. Excellent beginning
trainer, thats how I learned to sail. I don't know if the dinghy shown
is either but the hull is very similar and looks like a nice job. When I
was a kid you could get a kit to build the hull for less then $200,
thats a loooong time ago now.
HJ
Joe Tribulato wrote:
in the late 30's as a junior sail trainer. Called the El Toro because of
its origin in the BS session the insignia is a shovel for shoveling the
bull. Hull was based on the Sabot, it has a deck and a daggerboard to
distinguish it from a Sabot in the original, I guess Sabot's have them
now. They were not built stitch and glue originally. Excellent beginning
trainer, thats how I learned to sail. I don't know if the dinghy shown
is either but the hull is very similar and looks like a nice job. When I
was a kid you could get a kit to build the hull for less then $200,
thats a loooong time ago now.
HJ
Joe Tribulato wrote:
> I'll take a wild guess. Maybe a Sabot or that other one much like it with a shovel on the sail - has something to do with bull dropings - forget the name.
>
> Jpe T
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Rob Mouradian" <r_mouradian@...> wrote:
>
>> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "q243w5" <q243w5@> wrote:
>>
>> I don't think it is a Bolger design. There are many similar stitch and glue designs available. It might be from Bateau.com. I would guess the D4 (free plans) or D5.
>>
>> Rob M
>>
>>
>>> hi, does anyone know anything about the nice looking dinghy photos that were recently posted. robin
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>. I'm not sure what picture the OP is referringditto for me, which photo?
> to, so I can't confirm. :(
>
> -p
The shovel is the class symbol for the El Toro, which is a very close
relative of the Sabot. I'm not sure what picture the OP is referring
to, so I can't confirm. :(
-p
relative of the Sabot. I'm not sure what picture the OP is referring
to, so I can't confirm. :(
-p
On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 12:30 AM, Joe Tribulato <scsbmsjoe@...> wrote:
> I'll take a wild guess. Maybe a Sabot or that other one much like it with a shovel on the sail - has something to do with bull dropings - forget the name.
>
> Jpe T
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Rob Mouradian" <r_mouradian@...> wrote:
>>
>> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "q243w5" <q243w5@> wrote:
>> >
>> I don't think it is a Bolger design. There are many similar stitch and glue designs available. It might be from Bateau.com. I would guess the D4 (free plans) or D5.
>>
>> Rob M
>>
>> > hi, does anyone know anything about the nice looking dinghy photos that were recently posted. robin
>> >
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
I'll take a wild guess. Maybe a Sabot or that other one much like it with a shovel on the sail - has something to do with bull dropings - forget the name.
Jpe T
Jpe T
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Rob Mouradian" <r_mouradian@...> wrote:
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "q243w5" <q243w5@> wrote:
> >
> I don't think it is a Bolger design. There are many similar stitch and glue designs available. It might be from Bateau.com. I would guess the D4 (free plans) or D5.
>
> Rob M
>
> > hi, does anyone know anything about the nice looking dinghy photos that were recently posted. robin
> >
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "q243w5" <q243w5@...> wrote:
Rob M
>I don't think it is a Bolger design. There are many similar stitch and glue designs available. It might be from Bateau.com. I would guess the D4 (free plans) or D5.
Rob M
> hi, does anyone know anything about the nice looking dinghy photos that were recently posted. robin
>
hi, does anyone know anything about the nice looking dinghy photos that were recently posted. robin