Re: Wood topsides?
Well one thing for sure JT. Ya don't want Dan evaluating your boat. He'd think it better capsized! HeeHeeHee ;-)
Don
Don
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "highoveryou" <highoveryou@...> wrote:
I have found though, that there are no production boats new or old that have the beaching and storage capabilities of a bolger box.
>In addition to using wood for topsides and interior, entire panels and units made of FRG can be cut from a doner boat and used. fiberglass tape/ filets could join the seams.
> I was looking around at some early fiberglass boats, and came across MFG's, and Tollycraft. Tollycraft glassed a wood hull, but MFG used a glass hull with a wood topside,
I have found though, that there are no production boats new or old that have the beaching and storage capabilities of a bolger box.
In one of his books, PCB makes the point that trying to build and sail new
small houses is unattractive because there are so many bigger old houses
available to for the same price. There are many old fiberglass hulls around
which can be purchased for a lot less than the cost of building a new hull.
The hull can be recycled and turned into a variety of boats. A local
sailing club has a great Committee boat that was recycled from a 21 ft
sailboat and there is a guy in England who put a cat/yawl rig on a Finn hull
for a one man beach cruiser. There are a lot of possibilities.
In my experience, construction of a sail boat hull consumes less than half
the time and money that go into a sailboat. In the case of a "cruising"
boat or a boat using a big outboard, it is quite a bit less than half.
_____
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
David Darnell
Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2009 11:26 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Wood topsides?
If you mean cabin out of wood, then this could work well. You can make a
strong cabin with less weight out of wood than FRG. Make sure your hull is
not full of water in the laminate and add one of the epoxy coatings to the
hull designed to prevent osmosis. Epoxy encapsulating the cabin would make
the wood and paint last longer.
--- In bolger@yahoogroups. <mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com> com,
"highoveryou" <highoveryou@...> wrote:
hull with a wood topside, and that got me to thinking...
produce some nice results (although some might cringe at the thought). A lot
of the 50-60's glass hulls even have the lapstrake design.
small houses is unattractive because there are so many bigger old houses
available to for the same price. There are many old fiberglass hulls around
which can be purchased for a lot less than the cost of building a new hull.
The hull can be recycled and turned into a variety of boats. A local
sailing club has a great Committee boat that was recycled from a 21 ft
sailboat and there is a guy in England who put a cat/yawl rig on a Finn hull
for a one man beach cruiser. There are a lot of possibilities.
In my experience, construction of a sail boat hull consumes less than half
the time and money that go into a sailboat. In the case of a "cruising"
boat or a boat using a big outboard, it is quite a bit less than half.
_____
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
David Darnell
Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2009 11:26 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Wood topsides?
If you mean cabin out of wood, then this could work well. You can make a
strong cabin with less weight out of wood than FRG. Make sure your hull is
not full of water in the laminate and add one of the epoxy coatings to the
hull designed to prevent osmosis. Epoxy encapsulating the cabin would make
the wood and paint last longer.
--- In bolger@yahoogroups. <mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com> com,
"highoveryou" <highoveryou@...> wrote:
>MFG's, and Tollycraft. Tollycraft glassed a wood hull, but MFG used a glass
> I was looking around at some early fiberglass boats, and came across
hull with a wood topside, and that got me to thinking...
>topside. I see a lot of glass hulls free/cheap that this might work on, and
> How many folks here have used an older fiberglass hull, and made their own
produce some nice results (although some might cringe at the thought). A lot
of the 50-60's glass hulls even have the lapstrake design.
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
The first fibreglas boat I saw (circa 1956?) was the result of an amateur woodworker who bought a hull and did his own "woodie". I'm somewhat under the impression that the earliest ones were actually built that way and fb topsides came later. Any, yes, the woodwork was amazing.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "highoveryou" <highoveryou@...> wrote:
>
> I was looking around at some early fiberglass boats, and came across MFG's, and Tollycraft. Tollycraft glassed a wood hull, but MFG used a glass hull with a wood topside, and that got me to thinking...
>
> How many folks here have used an older fiberglass hull, and made their own topside. I see a lot of glass hulls free/cheap that this might work on, and produce some nice results (although some might cringe at the thought). A lot of the 50-60's glass hulls even have the lapstrake design.
>
I wrote an article on this very subject several years ago. I just posted
it, along with some sketches, to www.thevirualboatyard.com.
Enjoy!
Paul Esterle
Freelance Boating Writer
"Capt'n Pauley's Place"
The Virtual Boatyard
www.thevirtualboatyard.com
highoveryou wrote:
it, along with some sketches, to www.thevirualboatyard.com.
Enjoy!
Paul Esterle
Freelance Boating Writer
"Capt'n Pauley's Place"
The Virtual Boatyard
www.thevirtualboatyard.com
highoveryou wrote:
>
>
>
> I was looking around at some early fiberglass boats, and came across
> MFG's, and Tollycraft. Tollycraft glassed a wood hull, but MFG used a
> glass hull with a wood topside, and that got me to thinking...
>
> How many folks here have used an older fiberglass hull, and made their
> own topside. I see a lot of glass hulls free/cheap that this might work
> on, and produce some nice results (although some might cringe at the
> thought). A lot of the 50-60's glass hulls even have the lapstrake design.
David Darnell wrote:
see no advantage except that with a hull you already have a good start.
You will have a hard time giving the boat away though much less sell it.
As far as I know the main reason the manufactuing boat builders did
it was because they built the hull molds on year and over several years
recouped their costs and built the topside molds and started into
production with a fully fiberglass boat. The sold all kinds of
theories why the glass hull and wood topsides were great during those
years. When a wooden boat rots away 9 0utof 10 times the topsides
leaked and rotted the hull. I would glass those topsides against
leaking. You won't loose the hull to rot but even worse you will loose
the interior. There is where a heck of a lot of the boat building is.
It seems to me a better deal might be to take a glass topsides and build
a wooden hull under it??
Doug
>I see nothing wrong with taking a hull and adding a wood topsides I also
>
> If you mean cabin out of wood, then this could work well. You can make
> a strong cabin with less weight out of wood than FRG. Make sure your
> hull is not full of water in the laminate and add one of the epoxy
> coatings to the hull designed to prevent osmosis. Epoxy encapsulating
> the cabin would make the wood and paint last longer.
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com<mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com>,
> "highoveryou" <highoveryou@...> wrote:
> >
> > I was looking around at some early fiberglass boats, and came across
> MFG's, and Tollycraft. Tollycraft glassed a wood hull, but MFG used a
> glass hull with a wood topside, and that got me to thinking...
> >
> > How many folks here have used an older fiberglass hull, and made
> their own topside. I see a lot of glass hulls free/cheap that this
> might work on, and produce some nice results (although some might
> cringe at the thought). A lot of the 50-60's glass hulls even have the
> lapstrake design.
> >
>
>
see no advantage except that with a hull you already have a good start.
You will have a hard time giving the boat away though much less sell it.
As far as I know the main reason the manufactuing boat builders did
it was because they built the hull molds on year and over several years
recouped their costs and built the topside molds and started into
production with a fully fiberglass boat. The sold all kinds of
theories why the glass hull and wood topsides were great during those
years. When a wooden boat rots away 9 0utof 10 times the topsides
leaked and rotted the hull. I would glass those topsides against
leaking. You won't loose the hull to rot but even worse you will loose
the interior. There is where a heck of a lot of the boat building is.
It seems to me a better deal might be to take a glass topsides and build
a wooden hull under it??
Doug
If you mean cabin out of wood, then this could work well. You can make a strong cabin with less weight out of wood than FRG. Make sure your hull is not full of water in the laminate and add one of the epoxy coatings to the hull designed to prevent osmosis. Epoxy encapsulating the cabin would make the wood and paint last longer.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "highoveryou" <highoveryou@...> wrote:
>
> I was looking around at some early fiberglass boats, and came across MFG's, and Tollycraft. Tollycraft glassed a wood hull, but MFG used a glass hull with a wood topside, and that got me to thinking...
>
> How many folks here have used an older fiberglass hull, and made their own topside. I see a lot of glass hulls free/cheap that this might work on, and produce some nice results (although some might cringe at the thought). A lot of the 50-60's glass hulls even have the lapstrake design.
>
I've bought fiberglass hulls and built cabins onto them three times.
the last was a 1970 25' Luhrs hull with a deteriorating superstructure but the original Chrysler 318 in very good condition. I paid $1000.00 for the boat, and put another $1200.00 into the cabin and rebuild. I built the cabin from 5/4" cca decking for the framework and ply, with 4 oz. cloth over everything. There was no deterioration anyway in the time I owned her. I used her hard for 4 seasons then sold her for $2600.00. Was it worth it? I think so, since I enjoyed the rebuild process. Lets face it - most of us don't build or rebuild boats to make money.
And after owning several wooden hulls, it's a pleasure to have fiberglass below the waterline. I've calked my last seam, I can tell you that.
If anyone wants more info on the luhrs rebuild let me know
Ira
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
the last was a 1970 25' Luhrs hull with a deteriorating superstructure but the original Chrysler 318 in very good condition. I paid $1000.00 for the boat, and put another $1200.00 into the cabin and rebuild. I built the cabin from 5/4" cca decking for the framework and ply, with 4 oz. cloth over everything. There was no deterioration anyway in the time I owned her. I used her hard for 4 seasons then sold her for $2600.00. Was it worth it? I think so, since I enjoyed the rebuild process. Lets face it - most of us don't build or rebuild boats to make money.
And after owning several wooden hulls, it's a pleasure to have fiberglass below the waterline. I've calked my last seam, I can tell you that.
If anyone wants more info on the luhrs rebuild let me know
Ira
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Thanks for the correction Dan. I should have been a bit more clear. The type of boats I'm thinking of are 14-18' runabouts. It's a little hard to refer to the "super structure" on such a small craft. ;-)
I do think it'd save a lot of time, though. Not to mention save a bunch of cash, and still have a sharp looking boat. By me there are plenty of fiberglass hulls around. Some in decent shape (below the super structure).
JT
I do think it'd save a lot of time, though. Not to mention save a bunch of cash, and still have a sharp looking boat. By me there are plenty of fiberglass hulls around. Some in decent shape (below the super structure).
JT
Just a small point, but the topsides of a boat are the sides of the hull
above the waterline, I think what you're talking about would more
correctly be described as the deck and superstructure or cabin.
(Admittedly a very common mistake to make.)
Having said that, I've seen quite a few boats built with a GRP hull and
wood or wood/epoxy superstructure. Aesthetically the approach has quite
a lot to recommend it, especially if you like brightwork (and
sanding/varnishing to maintain it). Unfortunately from the perspective
of a yacht surveyor (albeit a student surveyor at the moment) I'd
suggest that any such boat has the various materials in the wrong place
- GRP below the waterline is vulnerable to blistering and delamination
due to osmosis, and wood above the waterline is susceptible to rainwater
ingress and consequent problems with rot. Whereas GRP above the
waterline and wood below the waterline would tend to last a lot better
(at least in salt water), though it wouldn't look anything like as good.
If you're going to go to the time, effort and expense of building a
boat, building the hull is actually a relatively small part of the total
work involved, so using an old GRP hull doesn't save that much, and
could lead to quite a few problems later on, in addition to
substantially reducing the value of the finished boat.
Hope that helps,
Dan Burrill
highoveryou wrote:
above the waterline, I think what you're talking about would more
correctly be described as the deck and superstructure or cabin.
(Admittedly a very common mistake to make.)
Having said that, I've seen quite a few boats built with a GRP hull and
wood or wood/epoxy superstructure. Aesthetically the approach has quite
a lot to recommend it, especially if you like brightwork (and
sanding/varnishing to maintain it). Unfortunately from the perspective
of a yacht surveyor (albeit a student surveyor at the moment) I'd
suggest that any such boat has the various materials in the wrong place
- GRP below the waterline is vulnerable to blistering and delamination
due to osmosis, and wood above the waterline is susceptible to rainwater
ingress and consequent problems with rot. Whereas GRP above the
waterline and wood below the waterline would tend to last a lot better
(at least in salt water), though it wouldn't look anything like as good.
If you're going to go to the time, effort and expense of building a
boat, building the hull is actually a relatively small part of the total
work involved, so using an old GRP hull doesn't save that much, and
could lead to quite a few problems later on, in addition to
substantially reducing the value of the finished boat.
Hope that helps,
Dan Burrill
highoveryou wrote:
>
>
> I was looking around at some early fiberglass boats, and came across
> MFG's, and Tollycraft. Tollycraft glassed a wood hull, but MFG used a
> glass hull with a wood topside, and that got me to thinking...
>
> How many folks here have used an older fiberglass hull, and made their
> own topside. I see a lot of glass hulls free/cheap that this might
> work on, and produce some nice results (although some might cringe at
> the thought). A lot of the 50-60's glass hulls even have the lapstrake
> design.
>
>
I was looking around at some early fiberglass boats, and came across MFG's, and Tollycraft. Tollycraft glassed a wood hull, but MFG used a glass hull with a wood topside, and that got me to thinking...
How many folks here have used an older fiberglass hull, and made their own topside. I see a lot of glass hulls free/cheap that this might work on, and produce some nice results (although some might cringe at the thought). A lot of the 50-60's glass hulls even have the lapstrake design.
How many folks here have used an older fiberglass hull, and made their own topside. I see a lot of glass hulls free/cheap that this might work on, and produce some nice results (although some might cringe at the thought). A lot of the 50-60's glass hulls even have the lapstrake design.