Re: Munro Hull Form
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bob Johnson <dredbob@...> wrote:
>Alice was modeled on Carib, one of Munroe's last boats. Almost a Presto, but not quite--"a slight variant of the type," as Gilpin described it. The difference was that Alice and Carib, although centerboarders, had substantial deadrise. True Presto boats, like sharpies, have flat floors. By lowering the flat bottom of a sharpie and rounding the chines, Munroe was able to increase the displacement, ballast, and stability for a minimal addition to draft and wetted surface.
> Henry Howard: Howard had a large Presto-styled yacht built and cruised
> extensively and all is described in the book _The Yacht Alice_.
A copy of The Commodore's Story can be ordered from the Historical Museum of
South Florida for $14.95 + $3.00 shipping and handling. Go to the following
URL:
http://www.hmsf.org/collections-books-music.htm
R/Jay
Jay K. Jeffries
Andros Is., Bahamas
Ave the whales.collect the whole series
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
oarmandt
Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 3:36 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Munro Hull Form
I read "The Commodore's Story" years ago after borrowing a copy via
inter-library loan. I can recommend both the book and the procedure.
Inter-library loan gives you access to uncommon, out of print books for the
price of postage.
The Commodore's Story has a good bit of description of the development of
the sharpie/presto style for work and cruising boats in the Florida
shallows. There are some period pictures of the commodore's various boats.
It was also amusing for its description of the very earliest days of Miami,
as opposed to what it has become.
Doug
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com<mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com> , "Roger
Padvorac" <roger@...> wrote:
shoal draft boats is worth the price of the book. The style reminds me of
Hershoff's Compleat Cruiser, with Florida pioneer twist."
reading about the ship itself, "Good Little Ship" sounds like a better
starting point.
South Florida for $14.95 + $3.00 shipping and handling. Go to the following
URL:
http://www.hmsf.org/collections-books-music.htm
R/Jay
Jay K. Jeffries
Andros Is., Bahamas
Ave the whales.collect the whole series
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
oarmandt
Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 3:36 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Munro Hull Form
I read "The Commodore's Story" years ago after borrowing a copy via
inter-library loan. I can recommend both the book and the procedure.
Inter-library loan gives you access to uncommon, out of print books for the
price of postage.
The Commodore's Story has a good bit of description of the development of
the sharpie/presto style for work and cruising boats in the Florida
shallows. There are some period pictures of the commodore's various boats.
It was also amusing for its description of the very earliest days of Miami,
as opposed to what it has become.
Doug
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com<mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com> , "Roger
Padvorac" <roger@...> wrote:
>(5 stars) on Amazon.com for the 3rd edition:
> I took a look and this book sounds pretty interesting. There is 1 review
> "If you are interested in Commadore Ralph Monroe and his Biscayne BaySharpies, this is a must have book! The chapter on the seaworthyness of
shoal draft boats is worth the price of the book. The style reminds me of
Hershoff's Compleat Cruiser, with Florida pioneer twist."
>of Vincent Gilpin's interest in this type of boat.
> Also, it looks like the 3rd edition might be the summation of many decades
>Middleton Munroe & Vincent Gilpin, but used copies cost over $100, so for
> 1st edition 1952
> 2nd edition 1961
>
> Good Little Ship by Vincent Gilpin (Hardcover - Jul 1975) used from $24
> Hardcover: 64 pages
> Publisher: Sutter House; 3 edition (July 1975)
> Language: English
> ISBN-10: 0915180014
> ISBN-13: 978-0915180011
> Product Dimensions: 9.1 x 6.3 x 0.6 inches
> Shipping Weight: 12 ounces
>
> Another book showed in up the search "The Commodore's Story" by Ralph
reading about the ship itself, "Good Little Ship" sounds like a better
starting point.
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Roger
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "c o'donnell" <dadadata@...>
> To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com<mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com> >
> Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 2:56 PM
> Subject: Re: [bolger] Munro Hull Form
>
>
> > See Vincent Gilpin's book "Good Little Ship".
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
I read "The Commodore's Story" years ago after borrowing a copy via inter-library loan. I can recommend both the book and the procedure. Inter-library loan gives you access to uncommon, out of print books for the price of postage.
The Commodore's Story has a good bit of description of the development of the sharpie/presto style for work and cruising boats in the Florida shallows. There are some period pictures of the commodore's various boats. It was also amusing for its description of the very earliest days of Miami, as opposed to what it has become.
Doug
The Commodore's Story has a good bit of description of the development of the sharpie/presto style for work and cruising boats in the Florida shallows. There are some period pictures of the commodore's various boats. It was also amusing for its description of the very earliest days of Miami, as opposed to what it has become.
Doug
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Padvorac" <roger@...> wrote:
>
> I took a look and this book sounds pretty interesting. There is 1 review (5 stars) on Amazon.com for the 3rd edition:
> "If you are interested in Commadore Ralph Monroe and his Biscayne Bay Sharpies, this is a must have book! The chapter on the seaworthyness of shoal draft boats is worth the price of the book. The style reminds me of Hershoff's Compleat Cruiser, with Florida pioneer twist."
>
> Also, it looks like the 3rd edition might be the summation of many decades of Vincent Gilpin's interest in this type of boat.
>
> 1st edition 1952
> 2nd edition 1961
>
> Good Little Ship by Vincent Gilpin (Hardcover - Jul 1975) used from $24
> Hardcover: 64 pages
> Publisher: Sutter House; 3 edition (July 1975)
> Language: English
> ISBN-10: 0915180014
> ISBN-13: 978-0915180011
> Product Dimensions: 9.1 x 6.3 x 0.6 inches
> Shipping Weight: 12 ounces
>
> Another book showed in up the search "The Commodore's Story" by Ralph Middleton Munroe & Vincent Gilpin, but used copies cost over $100, so for reading about the ship itself, "Good Little Ship" sounds like a better starting point.
>
> Roger
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "c o'donnell" <dadadata@...>
> To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 2:56 PM
> Subject: Re: [bolger] Munro Hull Form
>
>
> > See Vincent Gilpin's book "Good Little Ship".
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
The rounded chine sharpie form that Commodore Ralph Munroe developed
was epitomized in his "Presto" and to this day most will refer to the
form as a Presto-style hull. Bolger's "Presto Cruiser" was designed
for the editor of Small Boat Journal Dennis Caprio, and is described in
chapter 50, page 257, of _Boats with an Open Mind_. There is a pretty
succinct description of just what Munroe did to arrive at the Presto
design. (Egret was an earlier hard chined double ended sharpie that
was famous for its seaworthiness.) In addition to the two books
mentioned previously (_The Commodores Story_ and _The Good Little
Ship_) information about Presto-style designs may be found in the
writings of the following:
Pete Culler: Pete designed two large cruising boats after Munroe; one a
Presto-style and the other based on Wabun (which was Vince Gilpin's
boat). They are described in the John Burke book _Pete Culler's Boats_.
Dave Gerr: Dave has a chapter on Presto in his book _The Nature of
Boats_.
Reuel Parker: Reuel has designed many large Presto-styled hulls and
they may be seen at his web site and some in his book _The New Cold
Molded Boat Building_.
Henry Howard: Howard had a large Presto-styled yacht built and cruised
extensively and all is described in the book _The Yacht Alice_.
---
Bob
was epitomized in his "Presto" and to this day most will refer to the
form as a Presto-style hull. Bolger's "Presto Cruiser" was designed
for the editor of Small Boat Journal Dennis Caprio, and is described in
chapter 50, page 257, of _Boats with an Open Mind_. There is a pretty
succinct description of just what Munroe did to arrive at the Presto
design. (Egret was an earlier hard chined double ended sharpie that
was famous for its seaworthiness.) In addition to the two books
mentioned previously (_The Commodores Story_ and _The Good Little
Ship_) information about Presto-style designs may be found in the
writings of the following:
Pete Culler: Pete designed two large cruising boats after Munroe; one a
Presto-style and the other based on Wabun (which was Vince Gilpin's
boat). They are described in the John Burke book _Pete Culler's Boats_.
Dave Gerr: Dave has a chapter on Presto in his book _The Nature of
Boats_.
Reuel Parker: Reuel has designed many large Presto-styled hulls and
they may be seen at his web site and some in his book _The New Cold
Molded Boat Building_.
Henry Howard: Howard had a large Presto-styled yacht built and cruised
extensively and all is described in the book _The Yacht Alice_.
---
Bob
> 1a. Munro Hull Form
> Posted by: "Christopher Wetherill"wetherillc@...
> wetherillc
> Date: Fri May 1, 2009 10:40 am ((PDT))
>
> In the write-up for Blacgauntlet II in The Folding Schooner, PCB
> presents a version using the "form that Commodore Ralph Munro evolved
> out of the working sharpie". Is there somewhere a description of how
> this form can be developed for a given hull?
>
> CCW
Of course the obvious difference is the chines in the Presto line of Munroe boars are rounded instead of sharp. One of the "cartoon" series Bolger did for Small Boat Journal had a sharpie done this way -- I think it was for the editor of the magazine. Anyway, if you can dig up a copy or someone on the list can copy and post it, there might be some useful tips there.
Gary
Gary
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Christopher Wetherill" <wetherillc@...> wrote:
>
> In the write-up for Blacgauntlet II in The Folding Schooner, PCB presents a version using the "form that Commodore Ralph Munro evolved out of the working sharpie". Is there somewhere a description of how this form can be developed for a given hull?
>
> CCW
>
I took a look and this book sounds pretty interesting. There is 1 review (5 stars) on Amazon.com for the 3rd edition:
"If you are interested in Commadore Ralph Monroe and his Biscayne Bay Sharpies, this is a must have book! The chapter on the seaworthyness of shoal draft boats is worth the price of the book. The style reminds me of Hershoff's Compleat Cruiser, with Florida pioneer twist."
Also, it looks like the 3rd edition might be the summation of many decades of Vincent Gilpin's interest in this type of boat.
1st edition 1952
2nd edition 1961
Good Little Ship by Vincent Gilpin (Hardcover - Jul 1975) used from $24
Hardcover: 64 pages
Publisher: Sutter House; 3 edition (July 1975)
Language: English
ISBN-10: 0915180014
ISBN-13: 978-0915180011
Product Dimensions: 9.1 x 6.3 x 0.6 inches
Shipping Weight: 12 ounces
Another book showed in up the search "The Commodore's Story" by Ralph Middleton Munroe & Vincent Gilpin, but used copies cost over $100, so for reading about the ship itself, "Good Little Ship" sounds like a better starting point.
Roger
"If you are interested in Commadore Ralph Monroe and his Biscayne Bay Sharpies, this is a must have book! The chapter on the seaworthyness of shoal draft boats is worth the price of the book. The style reminds me of Hershoff's Compleat Cruiser, with Florida pioneer twist."
Also, it looks like the 3rd edition might be the summation of many decades of Vincent Gilpin's interest in this type of boat.
1st edition 1952
2nd edition 1961
Good Little Ship by Vincent Gilpin (Hardcover - Jul 1975) used from $24
Hardcover: 64 pages
Publisher: Sutter House; 3 edition (July 1975)
Language: English
ISBN-10: 0915180014
ISBN-13: 978-0915180011
Product Dimensions: 9.1 x 6.3 x 0.6 inches
Shipping Weight: 12 ounces
Another book showed in up the search "The Commodore's Story" by Ralph Middleton Munroe & Vincent Gilpin, but used copies cost over $100, so for reading about the ship itself, "Good Little Ship" sounds like a better starting point.
Roger
----- Original Message -----
From: "c o'donnell" <dadadata@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 2:56 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Munro Hull Form
> See Vincent Gilpin's book "Good Little Ship".
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
See Vincent Gilpin's book "Good Little Ship".
On May 1, 2009, at 1:53 PM, Bruce Hallman wrote:
>
>
> I am pretty sure this has to do with Munroe's 1886 sharpie "Egret",
> which is a famous "sharpie" hull, which was influenced by the Oyster
> sharpies which preceded it, and was influential on Phil Bolger and his
> family of sharpies which PCB designed later.
>
> Here are a few isometrics of Munroe's Egret sharpie
>
>http://www.flickr.com/photos/hallman/tags/egret/
>
> Also, there is a lot to see if you Google search it...
>
>http://images.google.com/images?q=Munroe%20egret
>
> > working sharpie". Is there somewhere a description of how this
> form can be
> > developed for a given hull?
>
>
=== craig o'donnell
dadadata@...
Box 232 Betterton Md 21610
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
On Fri, May 1, 2009 at 11:00 AM, Christopher Wetherill
<wetherillc@...> wrote:
boats, and study the Black Skimmer. Then, experiment by making a
bunch of small scale boat models, including the Black Skimmer. Then,
make a few small rowboats and sailboats. In the process of doing this
you will learn how to make a large boat like the Black Skimmer.
<wetherillc@...> wrote:
>I recommend starting by reading a lot, and studying various classic
>
> Suppose I wanted to build a particular boat using glued lapstrake, say
> Blackskimmer, how would I generate the hull form?
boats, and study the Black Skimmer. Then, experiment by making a
bunch of small scale boat models, including the Black Skimmer. Then,
make a few small rowboats and sailboats. In the process of doing this
you will learn how to make a large boat like the Black Skimmer.
Suppose I wanted to build a particular boat using glued lapstrake, say
Blackskimmer, how would I generate the hull form?
Bruce Hallman wrote:
Blackskimmer, how would I generate the hull form?
Bruce Hallman wrote:
> I am pretty sure this has to do with Munroe's 1886 sharpie "Egret",
> which is a famous "sharpie" hull, which was influenced by the Oyster
> sharpies which preceded it, and was influential on Phil Bolger and his
> family of sharpies which PCB designed later.
>
> Here are a few isometrics of Munroe's Egret sharpie
>
>http://www.flickr.com/photos/hallman/tags/egret/
>
> Also, there is a lot to see if you Google search it...
>
>http://images.google.com/images?q=Munroe%20egret
>
>
>
>> working sharpie". Is there somewhere a description of how this form can be
>> developed for a given hull?
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
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>
>
>
I am pretty sure this has to do with Munroe's 1886 sharpie "Egret",
which is a famous "sharpie" hull, which was influenced by the Oyster
sharpies which preceded it, and was influential on Phil Bolger and his
family of sharpies which PCB designed later.
Here are a few isometrics of Munroe's Egret sharpie
http://www.flickr.com/photos/hallman/tags/egret/
Also, there is a lot to see if you Google search it...
http://images.google.com/images?q=Munroe%20egret
which is a famous "sharpie" hull, which was influenced by the Oyster
sharpies which preceded it, and was influential on Phil Bolger and his
family of sharpies which PCB designed later.
Here are a few isometrics of Munroe's Egret sharpie
http://www.flickr.com/photos/hallman/tags/egret/
Also, there is a lot to see if you Google search it...
http://images.google.com/images?q=Munroe%20egret
> working sharpie". Is there somewhere a description of how this form can be
> developed for a given hull?
In the write-up for Blacgauntlet II in The Folding Schooner, PCB presents a version using the "form that Commodore Ralph Munro evolved out of the working sharpie". Is there somewhere a description of how this form can be developed for a given hull?
CCW
CCW