Re: Bolger boat ID
Greetings,
there is one more side to the story.
If I'd live in the US or Europe, I could go to the next library and have a look at those books for a small fee. If I like one, I might buy it afterwards.
In other parts of the world there is no "real world" library to go to. But sites like the one described work like virtual libaries where I can read like I would get the book from a real library.
From my point, as a reader, what's the difference whether I go to a library, or I read the same pages from a website?
Cheers,
Stefan
there is one more side to the story.
If I'd live in the US or Europe, I could go to the next library and have a look at those books for a small fee. If I like one, I might buy it afterwards.
In other parts of the world there is no "real world" library to go to. But sites like the one described work like virtual libaries where I can read like I would get the book from a real library.
From my point, as a reader, what's the difference whether I go to a library, or I read the same pages from a website?
Cheers,
Stefan
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Maximo" <grupos@...> wrote:
> Also in local bookshop in my
> country, there is none of Bolger books in stock.
Excellent points, if I may say so, Maximo.
You draw my attention to something here, among others, that don't quite seem to ring true. One thing we can take out from Chuck Merrell's long unchanged site is that at one period he and PCB were seemingly close. Further, we know things from the postings and exchanges (archived) of and between, Chuck, Phil, and Susanne. We know of some certain friction between Chuck and Susanne (as likely why Chuck abandoned updating his site - particularly the mods he would do to his Jesse Cooper re-done. But that _is_ speculation), and we know how Sussanne decried and railed about the abusers of PB&F's copyrights. And we know their Yahoo member ID and email addy etc.http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/links/Bolger_on_Bolger_001013733773/(You may search the archives directly for Chuck's posts.)
It is almost beyond credibility that Susanne did not know of the Bolger content posted on Chuck's site before that time. Likewise incredible that it was not complained of to this group back then by her, but that it is complained of now. By whom exactly? An unwitting "Sussanne"?
Another recent occurrence here that stretches credibility has to do with the launching of the first Whalewatcher. Mason posted of the event around about May 1, just a week or two after "Susanne" first "surfaced" here after a long absence. Mason posted that Susanne had taken photos from a chase boat of the Whalewatcher under wayhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/message/60210http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bolger4Sale/message/690Well whaddaya know, on May 6 an album entitled 'First WHALEWATCHER' (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/photos/album/660843651/pic/list)was commenced in this group's Photos section by the ID "Phil" (http://profiles.yahoo.com/phil.bolger). "Phil" has "Susanne's" addy and has been a member only since April 7. I doubt this to be a "resurfacing". More like a troll beginning.
The language doesn't seem to be Susanne's (nor PCB's). The posts are short. People like Lance know more about a particular boat in answer to a queryhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/message/60252. What "Sussanne" apparently knows comes from the limited design write-up. "Sussanne" says things weakly such as "plans show no..." rather than assertively, knowingly. Since when did PCB sign off on a post with anything like "Signed, Philip C. Bolger"??!!! As if Susanne would not know of Tomboy on the cover of BWAOM!!
Yep, this "Sussanne" is suss.
Graeme
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/message/60253
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/message/60249
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/message/60250
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/message/60359etc.
You draw my attention to something here, among others, that don't quite seem to ring true. One thing we can take out from Chuck Merrell's long unchanged site is that at one period he and PCB were seemingly close. Further, we know things from the postings and exchanges (archived) of and between, Chuck, Phil, and Susanne. We know of some certain friction between Chuck and Susanne (as likely why Chuck abandoned updating his site - particularly the mods he would do to his Jesse Cooper re-done. But that _is_ speculation), and we know how Sussanne decried and railed about the abusers of PB&F's copyrights. And we know their Yahoo member ID and email addy etc.http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/links/Bolger_on_Bolger_001013733773/(You may search the archives directly for Chuck's posts.)
It is almost beyond credibility that Susanne did not know of the Bolger content posted on Chuck's site before that time. Likewise incredible that it was not complained of to this group back then by her, but that it is complained of now. By whom exactly? An unwitting "Sussanne"?
Another recent occurrence here that stretches credibility has to do with the launching of the first Whalewatcher. Mason posted of the event around about May 1, just a week or two after "Susanne" first "surfaced" here after a long absence. Mason posted that Susanne had taken photos from a chase boat of the Whalewatcher under wayhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/message/60210http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bolger4Sale/message/690Well whaddaya know, on May 6 an album entitled 'First WHALEWATCHER' (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/photos/album/660843651/pic/list)was commenced in this group's Photos section by the ID "Phil" (http://profiles.yahoo.com/phil.bolger). "Phil" has "Susanne's" addy and has been a member only since April 7. I doubt this to be a "resurfacing". More like a troll beginning.
The language doesn't seem to be Susanne's (nor PCB's). The posts are short. People like Lance know more about a particular boat in answer to a queryhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/message/60252. What "Sussanne" apparently knows comes from the limited design write-up. "Sussanne" says things weakly such as "plans show no..." rather than assertively, knowingly. Since when did PCB sign off on a post with anything like "Signed, Philip C. Bolger"??!!! As if Susanne would not know of Tomboy on the cover of BWAOM!!
Yep, this "Sussanne" is suss.
Graeme
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/message/60253
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/message/60249
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/message/60250
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/message/60359etc.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Maximo" <grupos@...> wrote:
>
> > "Susanne@" <philbolger@> wrote:
>
> How do you know this is Susanne or Phil Bolger, and not a troll? > Don t you say they only have a fax? :)
...
> "Susanne@" <philbolger@> wrote:How do you know this is Susanne or Phil Bolger, and not a troll? Don t you
say they only have a fax? :)
When I start learning about boatbuilding, and looking over the internet, I
did not find Susanne or Bolger website. Also in local bookshop in my
country, there is none of Bolger books in stock.
But I found lots of websites like Mr. Chuck Merrel, this yahoo group,
Hallman isometrics, lots of informations and photos over the internet from
regular amateurs boatbuilders...
Lots of free marketing for years...
I found really, really nice people like Sam, who gave me some books to
start. Later, I was able to buy other new Bolger´s book at amazon...
I think website like Mr. Merrel one, help Mr. Bolger sales of books and
plans.
And also think that a book out of print, is a very big fault of the editor,
publisher and/or author. Who could afford $230 for a used book that would
cost new $19? Is the author getting any comission for the sale of a used
book?
How do you calculate the comissions for the sales from people that decide to
order a plan or a book, generated from a fine design website with photos of
the construction process, list of materials, photos sailing?
Perhaps Mr. Merrel, someone needs to write you a check instead? :)
Máximo
Australian dollar is about $077c US.
Top price here is $577 AUDhttp://www.biblioz.com/main.php
http://www.biblioz.com/search.php
Mike
_________________________________________________________________
Looking to change your car this year? Find car news, reviews and more
http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fsecure%2Dau%2Eimrworldwide%2Ecom%2Fcgi%2Dbin%2Fa%2Fci%5F450304%2Fet%5F2%2Fcg%5F801459%2Fpi%5F1004813%2Fai%5F859641&_t=762955845&_r=tig_OCT07&_m=EXT
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Top price here is $577 AUDhttp://www.biblioz.com/main.php
http://www.biblioz.com/search.php
Mike
_________________________________________________________________
Looking to change your car this year? Find car news, reviews and more
http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fsecure%2Dau%2Eimrworldwide%2Ecom%2Fcgi%2Dbin%2Fa%2Fci%5F450304%2Fet%5F2%2Fcg%5F801459%2Fpi%5F1004813%2Fai%5F859641&_t=762955845&_r=tig_OCT07&_m=EXT
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Using bookfinder.com $59 to $231.
HJ
Bruce Hallman wrote:
HJ
Bruce Hallman wrote:
>> I think one book in question was Different Boats, which is long
>> out of print. This book can be up to $250 to buy.
>>
>
> _Different Boats_, featuring the chapter on Jessie Cooper, is nearly
> the rarest Bolger book. Tt runs $80 to $125 at present on the used
> book market.
>
>http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?an=Bolger&sts=t&tn=different+boats&x=0&y=0
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
> I think one book in question was Different Boats, which is long_Different Boats_, featuring the chapter on Jessie Cooper, is nearly
> out of print. This book can be up to $250 to buy.
the rarest Bolger book. Tt runs $80 to $125 at present on the used
book market.
http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?an=Bolger&sts=t&tn=different+boats&x=0&y=0
I think we need to be cautious about what we put on the Web, but the world is changing. I think one book in question was Different Boats, which is long out of print. This book can be up to $250 to buy. How do I find out about Jessie Cooper or other Bolger designs if no one ever bothered to tell me about them on the web. I would not have bought many of the plans I have because I would simply not know about them. Mr Bolger would have less income without the Web and we would have less fun in our Bolger boats. His designs are often one of kind. We can't get them elsewhere. I would not have given Junebug to man with one leg so he could practice paddling and win prizes in dragon boat racing. But again the world is changing. Look at
http://books.google.com.au/books?id=vBQjV3NZ6LwC&dq=boats+with+an+open+mind&printsec=frontcover&source=bn&hl=en&ei=k4oYSqLoDJOMtgPcxfXfCA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4
Look at what google is doinghttp://www.wired.com/techbiz/media/news/2005/09/68901
I understand why, but wouldn't a complete Bolger plan catalogue be wonderful. It would sell like hotcakes. Without one we do the best we can. To buy all the published Bolger books costs a lot of money and still you don't have all the designs in them.
But then there is at least moral copyright here and a wrap over the knuckes can be a good thing. It has got us all thinking about what we do with materials, but my point is that what is done is changing. I feel sad that Mr Bolger is unhappy. We mean well. I take his point, be more carefull and maybe ask permission from him at least once and see what he says. He might have agreed to one or two pages without whole sections. I think that might have been his point, but don't quote me on that.
Mike
_________________________________________________________________
Looking for a fresh way to share your photos? Check out the new Windows Live Messenger
http://windowslive.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=792335
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
http://books.google.com.au/books?id=vBQjV3NZ6LwC&dq=boats+with+an+open+mind&printsec=frontcover&source=bn&hl=en&ei=k4oYSqLoDJOMtgPcxfXfCA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4
Look at what google is doinghttp://www.wired.com/techbiz/media/news/2005/09/68901
I understand why, but wouldn't a complete Bolger plan catalogue be wonderful. It would sell like hotcakes. Without one we do the best we can. To buy all the published Bolger books costs a lot of money and still you don't have all the designs in them.
But then there is at least moral copyright here and a wrap over the knuckes can be a good thing. It has got us all thinking about what we do with materials, but my point is that what is done is changing. I feel sad that Mr Bolger is unhappy. We mean well. I take his point, be more carefull and maybe ask permission from him at least once and see what he says. He might have agreed to one or two pages without whole sections. I think that might have been his point, but don't quote me on that.
Mike
_________________________________________________________________
Looking for a fresh way to share your photos? Check out the new Windows Live Messenger
http://windowslive.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=792335
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lotta sea lawyers on this thread.
than discussed here, and more simple.
There is no question that Mr. Bolger owns the copyright to his plans.
And he has the right and privilege to defend that copyright. This is
protected in the body of U.S. Constitution.
Of course, the violation of copyright is almost exclusive punished by
the holder of the copyright in civil court, and his/her own expense.
There is a question of "fair use" and this is a matter for discussion,
but it is typically defined in litigation--something no one wants in
this case.
What *is* up for discussion is whether or not someone is harmed by this
posting of copyrighted material, and whether it's a good or bad idea to
permit it. I think that most of us like it to be posted. But is Mr.
Bolger harmed--by lack of sales of books and plans?
In my judgment, Mr. Bolger's pocketbook (and reputation) is enhanced by
what Chuck Merrell has done. It creates interest and discussion of the
book and the boat plans, and serves essentially as free marketing to a
certain segment of the population. I have seen Chuck's website, and I
have purchased (new when possible, used when not) every one of Mr.
Bolger's books. I have purchased plans, and once tried to commission a
design (they were too busy). Chuck's posting increases the porbability
that someone will buy "Boats with an Open Mind," in my opinion.
practice. Legally, it is mostly (but not entirely) incorrect. The
doctrine of fair use complicates matters (for example, you may quote a
previous poster with no fear of copyright violation, as I have done here).
But you may turn your posting of parts (for review, for explication,
etc.) into a revenue stream for you. Legally speaking, this would be a
copyright violation. Practically speaking, it's up to you (the holder)
to enforce it. But it doesn't go away by a failure to enforce (that's
trademark violation, not protected by the U.S. Constitution, and a whole
'nother smoke--if I tried to profit selling my boat designs [two
finished!] as the product of my company "Phill Bolger and Friends," Mr.
Phil Bolger would have to act to stop me).
To summarize:
Was it a copyright violation? Maybe, but it's not really clear.
Was the posting good for PCB & Friends? I think so; it's free
marketing and does not actually replace the product is samples from.
Is Mr. PCB required to act to preserve his copyright? No.
Do I think he should be alert, wary, and curious about uses of his
materials, but also be cautious to allow free marketing of his (reduced
and unworkable) plans among the cognescenti? I do.
-Chris Crandall
> I think it's sort of an established fact that you have to protectThe actual definition of copyright (note spelling) is both more complex
> your own Copywrite.
than discussed here, and more simple.
There is no question that Mr. Bolger owns the copyright to his plans.
And he has the right and privilege to defend that copyright. This is
protected in the body of U.S. Constitution.
Of course, the violation of copyright is almost exclusive punished by
the holder of the copyright in civil court, and his/her own expense.
There is a question of "fair use" and this is a matter for discussion,
but it is typically defined in litigation--something no one wants in
this case.
What *is* up for discussion is whether or not someone is harmed by this
posting of copyrighted material, and whether it's a good or bad idea to
permit it. I think that most of us like it to be posted. But is Mr.
Bolger harmed--by lack of sales of books and plans?
In my judgment, Mr. Bolger's pocketbook (and reputation) is enhanced by
what Chuck Merrell has done. It creates interest and discussion of the
book and the boat plans, and serves essentially as free marketing to a
certain segment of the population. I have seen Chuck's website, and I
have purchased (new when possible, used when not) every one of Mr.
Bolger's books. I have purchased plans, and once tried to commission a
design (they were too busy). Chuck's posting increases the porbability
that someone will buy "Boats with an Open Mind," in my opinion.
> No mater how well intended, the effect of anyThis post above doesn't distinguish between the law and everyday
> one who wants to violating your rights has the effect of eliminating
> the protection. Anyone who allows the violation of his copy rights
> soon has none. When I write this e-mail it is automaticly copywriten.
> When I post it for the whole world to read and do with what they
> please, at some point some one else can write the same thing. It is
> copywriten to them unless I protest. At some point my rights are
> lost. When the whole world uses a copywritten property it is said
> to have gone into the public domain. You must protest it's
> publication whether you mind or not, unless you give written
> permission for it to be published. Posting to an open list or
> placing in a blog is publishing. This is my understanding.
practice. Legally, it is mostly (but not entirely) incorrect. The
doctrine of fair use complicates matters (for example, you may quote a
previous poster with no fear of copyright violation, as I have done here).
But you may turn your posting of parts (for review, for explication,
etc.) into a revenue stream for you. Legally speaking, this would be a
copyright violation. Practically speaking, it's up to you (the holder)
to enforce it. But it doesn't go away by a failure to enforce (that's
trademark violation, not protected by the U.S. Constitution, and a whole
'nother smoke--if I tried to profit selling my boat designs [two
finished!] as the product of my company "Phill Bolger and Friends," Mr.
Phil Bolger would have to act to stop me).
To summarize:
Was it a copyright violation? Maybe, but it's not really clear.
Was the posting good for PCB & Friends? I think so; it's free
marketing and does not actually replace the product is samples from.
Is Mr. PCB required to act to preserve his copyright? No.
Do I think he should be alert, wary, and curious about uses of his
materials, but also be cautious to allow free marketing of his (reduced
and unworkable) plans among the cognescenti? I do.
-Chris Crandall
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Messages in this topic (12)
> ________________________________________________________________________
> 1d. Re: Bolger boat ID Posted by: "djdecker2002"
>djdecker2002@...djdecker2002 Date: Sat May 23, 2009 10:16 am
> ((PDT))
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Douglas Pollard <dougpol1@...> wrote:
>> daschultz2000 wrote:
>>>
>>> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com<mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com>,
>>> "Susanne@" <philbolger@> wrote:
>>>> So, who said it was o.k. to put my book-chapters/book, that are
>>>> not
>>> out of copy-right quite yet, on the web. This is not exactly
>>> 'personal use'. And who is 'tomboy' of
>>>http://www.boatdesign.com/tomboy
>>> <http://www.boatdesign.com/tomboy> ?
>>>> Signed, Philip C. Bolger ...Certainly Mr Merrell's enthusiastic
>>>> promotion of Phil's designs [and Micro in particular] led me in
>>>> the right direction, i.e. towards >the purchase of books both
>>>> new and second hand, of plans, and to the >construction of my
>>>> own Micro...
>>> Spending hours of personal time assembling the info, paying
>>> monthly fees to keep the site up on the web, linking to Amazon
>>> for the sale of an "in print" book, and fully crediting the boat
>>> designer. If the designer/author had done it himself, it would be
>>> called MARKETING. If some one else does it to the
>>> designer/author's benefit for free, it's a violation of "personal
>>> use". Snort!
>>>
>>> Don
>>>
>>>
>> I think it's sort of an established fact that you have to protect
>> your own Copywrite. No mater how well intended, the effect of any
>> one who wants to violating your rights has the effect of
>> eliminating the protection. Anyone who allows the violation of his
>> copy rights soon has none.
>
> This is incorrect, and results from confusion between various forms
> of intellectual property. It is Trademarks that must always be
> defended or lost. Copyrights and Patents remain assigned to their
> owners for their duration, and may be defended or not as the owner
> desires without loss.
>
> Phil's words won't fall into the Public Domain until, er, is it
> currently 95 years after his demise in the US?
>
> The main point here is something that is a too-common tragedy on the
> Internet. Mr Merrill is that Most Powerful of Marketing Techniques -
> a Genuine Customer who is SO Pleased with a product (in this case, a
> boat design) that he wants to tell the world how great it is, and has
> set up a website to do just that. Marketing firms spend millions of
> dollars every year trying to figure out how to fake that, harness
> that, control that (Why they haven't hit upon the notion of making
> decent products yet I don't know.
>
> So, yeah, he's gone overboard by reprinting the entire chapter from
> BWAOM. The net effect, though, is positive - positive for Phil
> Bolger's image, positive for continued sales of his latest book,
> positive for sales of boat plans. My advice would be to Tread Softly
> here - the positive Word Of Mouth greatly outweighs any negatives
> attached to the over-publication of the blurb from BWAOM.
>
> All too often, copyright holders come down too hard in cases like
> this - and they end up turning their most enthusiastic fans who want
> to tell everyone how great this stuff is into enemies.
>
> Speaking of permissions, Phil, many of us have been waiting patiently
> for you to give permission to post the cartoons of the AS-34 here.
> I'd certainly like to see them, and you've sent them to people who
> participate here. May they be posted?
>
> -Derek
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Messages in this topic (12)
> ________________________________________________________________________
> 1e. Re: Bolger boat ID Posted by: "Douglas Pollard"
>dougpol1@...dougpol1 Date: Sat May 23, 2009 11:01 am ((PDT))
>
>
> djdecker2002 wrote:
>>
>> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com<mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com>,
>> Douglas Pollard <dougpol1@...> wrote:
>>> daschultz2000 wrote:
>>>>
>>>> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com<mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com>
>>>>
>> <mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com>,
>>>> "Susanne@" <philbolger@> wrote:
>>>>> So, who said it was o.k. to put my book-chapters/book, that
>>>>> are not
>>>> out of copy-right quite yet, on the web. This is not exactly
>> 'personal
>>>> use'. And who is 'tomboy' ofhttp://www.boatdesign.com/tomboy
>> <http://www.boatdesign.com/tomboy>
>>>> <http://www.boatdesign.com/tomboy
>> <http://www.boatdesign.com/tomboy>> ?
>>>>> Signed, Philip C. Bolger ...Certainly Mr Merrell's
>>>>> enthusiastic promotion of Phil's designs [and Micro in
>>>>> particular] led me in the right direction, i.e. towards >the
>>>>> purchase of books both new and second hand, of plans, and to
>>>>> the >construction of my own Micro...
>>>> Spending hours of personal time assembling the info, paying
>>>> monthly fees to keep the site up on the web, linking to Amazon
>>>> for the
>> sale of
>>>> an "in print" book, and fully crediting the boat designer. If
>>>> the designer/author had done it himself, it would be called
>>>> MARKETING. If some one else does it to the designer/author's
>>>> benefit for free, it's a violation of "personal use". Snort!
>>>>
>>>> Don
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I think it's sort of an established fact that you have to protect
>>> your own Copywrite. No mater how well intended, the effect of
>>> any one who wants to violating your rights has the effect of
>>> eliminating the protection. Anyone who allows the violation of
>>> his copy rights soon has none.
>> This is incorrect, and results from confusion between various forms
>> of intellectual property. It is Trademarks that must always be
>> defended or lost. Copyrights and Patents remain assigned to their
>> owners for their duration, and may be defended or not as the owner
>> desires without loss.
>>
>> Phil's words won't fall into the Public Domain until, er, is it
>> currently 95 years after his demise in the US?
>>
>> The main point here is something that is a too-common tragedy on
>> the Internet. Mr Merrill is that Most Powerful of Marketing
>> Techniques - a Genuine Customer who is SO Pleased with a product
>> (in this case, a boat design) that he wants to tell the world how
>> great it is, and has set up a website to do just that. Marketing
>> firms spend millions of dollars every year trying to figure out how
>> to fake that, harness that, control that (Why they haven't hit upon
>> the notion of making decent products yet I don't know.
>>
>> So, yeah, he's gone overboard by reprinting the entire chapter from
>> BWAOM. The net effect, though, is positive - positive for Phil
>> Bolger's image, positive for continued sales of his latest book,
>> positive for sales of boat plans. My advice would be to Tread
>> Softly here - the positive Word Of Mouth greatly outweighs any
>> negatives attached to the over-publication of the blurb from BWAOM.
>>
>>
>> All too often, copyright holders come down too hard in cases like
>> this - and they end up turning their most enthusiastic fans who
>> want to tell everyone how great this stuff is into enemies.
>>
>> Speaking of permissions, Phil, many of us have been waiting
>> patiently for you to give permission to post the cartoons of the
>> AS-34 here. I'd certainly like to see them, and you've sent them to
>> people who participate here. May they be posted?
>>
>> -Derek
>>
>>
> Derek, Sorry but I have to disagree with you. If I write a book
> and large portions, are put on the web then no one has to buy my
> book they can can read it there. It is effectively in the public
> domain if not legally. You do have to protect your copy write, if
> you don't who will, there are no copy write police out there. If
> you write a song and millions of people copy it without complaint
> from you how much damages can you receive from the copier. Darn
> little in a court. That's the reason the record companies are so
> terrified of people copying music. Your copywrite has become
> ineffective. There is one more thing though and it is likely more
> important. There used to be a group on line for writers to post there
> stories for the other members to read and critique. It was shut down
> because it amounted to giving first publishing rights to the website.
> Some writers ran into legal problems where they got sued by their
> publishers who had paid them for first rights and they had already
> been published on line so the writer could not legally sell first
> publishing rights. If Bolger does not publicly complain it amounts to
> giving a publishing right by default. If he wants to sell the rights
> to another publisher he would have to sell it as third or fourth
> right. Doug
>
>
>
>
>
> Messages in this topic (12)
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> 2a. Whalewatcher bowboard Posted by: "Rob Kellock"
>creditscorenz@...creditscorenz Date: Fri May 22, 2009 5:58
> pm ((PDT))
>
> This design fascinates me. What is the purpose of that bow board?
>
> Is it to:
>
> 1. Provide lateral resistance forward because the mast is so far
> forward on the hull.
>
> 2. Allow for directional control when under power near the dock.
>
> 3. Ameliorate pounding under the flat bottom.
>
> 4. Increase hull speed by creating a carpet of bubbles under the
> hull!
>
> How does she sail? There was mention of videos being taken of her
> under sail. Any chance we are going to see these posted on the
> Internet?
>
> As a boat/caravan combination Whalewatcher seems to tick all the
> boxes I can think of:
>
> 1. 6'6" beam means it can be containerized on it's trailer. 2.
> Bolger rudder doesn't impede access over the transom when sitting low
> on its trailer in the caravan park, although the outboard motor would
> need to be removed. 3. The centred mast in the bow compartment on a
> tabernacle allows a tent to be erected over the cabin deck. When
> combined with two insulated half hard hatches that meet in the middle
> and a drop board between the cabin and cockpit you would be secure,
> warm and cozy inside, particularly if you added a small heater that
> flued out through the port or starboard cockpit wall. 4. The cabin
> layout is very similar to a basic caravan. The only change required
> is drawers and a folding table forward.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Messages in this topic (2)
> ________________________________________________________________________
> 2b. Re: Whalewatcher bowboard Posted by: "jcjglt"jcjglt@...
> jcjglt Date: Fri May 22, 2009 11:47 pm ((PDT))
>
> Rob, You might read with interest the "Whalewatcher" chapter in
> "Boats with an open mind" by Philip C. Bolger in which you shall find
> answers to your questions. About the bow board : in shallow waters
> where the leeboards cannot be lowered to balance the boat there was a
> choice between bow rudders and a daggerboard in the bow, which was
> eventually chosen. Nice boat indeed, I am dreaming... jcjglt
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Messages in this topic (2)
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> 3a. Re: Bantam's Removable Cabin Posted by: "daschultz2000"
>daschultz8275@...daschultz2000 Date: Sat May 23, 2009 4:05
> am ((PDT))
>
> I'd look to using the trailer winch to assist in pulling the cabin
> erect. IMO the original design is elegant as is.
>
> Don
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Messages in this topic (6)
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!! - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please! - no
> cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
> horses - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks,
> Fred' posts - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and
> snip away - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester,
> MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349 - Unsubscribe:
>bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com- Open discussion:
>bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
djdecker2002 wrote:
Sorry but I have to disagree with you. If I write a book and
large portions, are put on the web then no one has to buy my book they
can can read it there. It is effectively in the public domain if not
legally. You do have to protect your copy write, if you don't who
will, there are no copy write police out there. If you write a song
and millions of people copy it without complaint from you how much
damages can you receive from the copier. Darn little in a court. That's
the reason the record companies are so terrified of people copying
music. Your copywrite has become ineffective.
There is one more thing though and it is likely more important.
There used to be a group on line for writers to post there stories for
the other members to read and critique. It was shut down because it
amounted to giving first publishing rights to the website. Some writers
ran into legal problems where they got sued by their publishers who had
paid them for first rights and they had already been published on line
so the writer could not legally sell first publishing rights.
If Bolger does not publicly complain it amounts to giving a
publishing right by default. If he wants to sell the rights to another
publisher he would have to sell it as third or fourth right.
Doug
>Derek,
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com<mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com>,
> Douglas Pollard <dougpol1@...> wrote:
> >
> > daschultz2000 wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com<mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > > "Susanne@" <philbolger@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > So, who said it was o.k. to put my book-chapters/book, that are not
> > > out of copy-right quite yet, on the web. This is not exactly
> 'personal
> > > use'. And who is 'tomboy' ofhttp://www.boatdesign.com/tomboy
> <http://www.boatdesign.com/tomboy>
> > > <http://www.boatdesign.com/tomboy
> <http://www.boatdesign.com/tomboy>> ?
> > > > Signed, Philip C. Bolger
> > >
> > > >...Certainly Mr Merrell's enthusiastic promotion of Phil's designs
> > > >[and Micro in particular] led me in the right direction, i.e.
> > > >towards >the purchase of books both new and second hand, of plans,
> > > >and to the >construction of my own Micro...
> > >
> > > Spending hours of personal time assembling the info, paying monthly
> > > fees to keep the site up on the web, linking to Amazon for the
> sale of
> > > an "in print" book, and fully crediting the boat designer. If the
> > > designer/author had done it himself, it would be called MARKETING. If
> > > some one else does it to the designer/author's benefit for free, it's
> > > a violation of "personal use". Snort!
> > >
> > > Don
> > >
> > >
> > I think it's sort of an established fact that you have to protect
> > your own Copywrite. No mater how well intended, the effect of any one
> > who wants to violating your rights has the effect of eliminating the
> > protection. Anyone who allows the violation of his copy rights soon has
> > none.
>
> This is incorrect, and results from confusion between various forms of
> intellectual property. It is Trademarks that must always be defended
> or lost. Copyrights and Patents remain assigned to their owners for
> their duration, and may be defended or not as the owner desires
> without loss.
>
> Phil's words won't fall into the Public Domain until, er, is it
> currently 95 years after his demise in the US?
>
> The main point here is something that is a too-common tragedy on the
> Internet. Mr Merrill is that Most Powerful of Marketing Techniques - a
> Genuine Customer who is SO Pleased with a product (in this case, a
> boat design) that he wants to tell the world how great it is, and has
> set up a website to do just that. Marketing firms spend millions of
> dollars every year trying to figure out how to fake that, harness
> that, control that (Why they haven't hit upon the notion of making
> decent products yet I don't know.
>
> So, yeah, he's gone overboard by reprinting the entire chapter from
> BWAOM. The net effect, though, is positive - positive for Phil
> Bolger's image, positive for continued sales of his latest book,
> positive for sales of boat plans. My advice would be to Tread Softly
> here - the positive Word Of Mouth greatly outweighs any negatives
> attached to the over-publication of the blurb from BWAOM.
>
> All too often, copyright holders come down too hard in cases like this
> - and they end up turning their most enthusiastic fans who want to
> tell everyone how great this stuff is into enemies.
>
> Speaking of permissions, Phil, many of us have been waiting patiently
> for you to give permission to post the cartoons of the AS-34 here. I'd
> certainly like to see them, and you've sent them to people who
> participate here. May they be posted?
>
> -Derek
>
>
Sorry but I have to disagree with you. If I write a book and
large portions, are put on the web then no one has to buy my book they
can can read it there. It is effectively in the public domain if not
legally. You do have to protect your copy write, if you don't who
will, there are no copy write police out there. If you write a song
and millions of people copy it without complaint from you how much
damages can you receive from the copier. Darn little in a court. That's
the reason the record companies are so terrified of people copying
music. Your copywrite has become ineffective.
There is one more thing though and it is likely more important.
There used to be a group on line for writers to post there stories for
the other members to read and critique. It was shut down because it
amounted to giving first publishing rights to the website. Some writers
ran into legal problems where they got sued by their publishers who had
paid them for first rights and they had already been published on line
so the writer could not legally sell first publishing rights.
If Bolger does not publicly complain it amounts to giving a
publishing right by default. If he wants to sell the rights to another
publisher he would have to sell it as third or fourth right.
Doug
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Douglas Pollard <dougpol1@...> wrote:
Phil's words won't fall into the Public Domain until, er, is it currently 95 years after his demise in the US?
The main point here is something that is a too-common tragedy on the Internet. Mr Merrill is that Most Powerful of Marketing Techniques - a Genuine Customer who is SO Pleased with a product (in this case, a boat design) that he wants to tell the world how great it is, and has set up a website to do just that. Marketing firms spend millions of dollars every year trying to figure out how to fake that, harness that, control that (Why they haven't hit upon the notion of making decent products yet I don't know.
So, yeah, he's gone overboard by reprinting the entire chapter from BWAOM. The net effect, though, is positive - positive for Phil Bolger's image, positive for continued sales of his latest book, positive for sales of boat plans. My advice would be to Tread Softly here - the positive Word Of Mouth greatly outweighs any negatives attached to the over-publication of the blurb from BWAOM.
All too often, copyright holders come down too hard in cases like this - and they end up turning their most enthusiastic fans who want to tell everyone how great this stuff is into enemies.
Speaking of permissions, Phil, many of us have been waiting patiently for you to give permission to post the cartoons of the AS-34 here. I'd certainly like to see them, and you've sent them to people who participate here. May they be posted?
-Derek
>This is incorrect, and results from confusion between various forms of intellectual property. It is Trademarks that must always be defended or lost. Copyrights and Patents remain assigned to their owners for their duration, and may be defended or not as the owner desires without loss.
> daschultz2000 wrote:
> >
> >
> > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com<mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > "Susanne@" <philbolger@> wrote:
> > >
> > > So, who said it was o.k. to put my book-chapters/book, that are not
> > out of copy-right quite yet, on the web. This is not exactly 'personal
> > use'. And who is 'tomboy' ofhttp://www.boatdesign.com/tomboy
> > <http://www.boatdesign.com/tomboy> ?
> > > Signed, Philip C. Bolger
> >
> > >...Certainly Mr Merrell's enthusiastic promotion of Phil's designs
> > >[and Micro in particular] led me in the right direction, i.e.
> > >towards >the purchase of books both new and second hand, of plans,
> > >and to the >construction of my own Micro...
> >
> > Spending hours of personal time assembling the info, paying monthly
> > fees to keep the site up on the web, linking to Amazon for the sale of
> > an "in print" book, and fully crediting the boat designer. If the
> > designer/author had done it himself, it would be called MARKETING. If
> > some one else does it to the designer/author's benefit for free, it's
> > a violation of "personal use". Snort!
> >
> > Don
> >
> >
> I think it's sort of an established fact that you have to protect
> your own Copywrite. No mater how well intended, the effect of any one
> who wants to violating your rights has the effect of eliminating the
> protection. Anyone who allows the violation of his copy rights soon has
> none.
Phil's words won't fall into the Public Domain until, er, is it currently 95 years after his demise in the US?
The main point here is something that is a too-common tragedy on the Internet. Mr Merrill is that Most Powerful of Marketing Techniques - a Genuine Customer who is SO Pleased with a product (in this case, a boat design) that he wants to tell the world how great it is, and has set up a website to do just that. Marketing firms spend millions of dollars every year trying to figure out how to fake that, harness that, control that (Why they haven't hit upon the notion of making decent products yet I don't know.
So, yeah, he's gone overboard by reprinting the entire chapter from BWAOM. The net effect, though, is positive - positive for Phil Bolger's image, positive for continued sales of his latest book, positive for sales of boat plans. My advice would be to Tread Softly here - the positive Word Of Mouth greatly outweighs any negatives attached to the over-publication of the blurb from BWAOM.
All too often, copyright holders come down too hard in cases like this - and they end up turning their most enthusiastic fans who want to tell everyone how great this stuff is into enemies.
Speaking of permissions, Phil, many of us have been waiting patiently for you to give permission to post the cartoons of the AS-34 here. I'd certainly like to see them, and you've sent them to people who participate here. May they be posted?
-Derek
daschultz2000 wrote:
your own Copywrite. No mater how well intended, the effect of any one
who wants to violating your rights has the effect of eliminating the
protection. Anyone who allows the violation of his copy rights soon has
none.
When I write this e-mail it is automaticly copywriten. When I post
it for the whole world to read and do with what they please, at some
point some one else can write the same thing. It is copywriten to them
unless I protest. At some point my rights are lost. When the whole
world uses a copywritten property it is said to have gone into the
public domain. You must protest it's publication whether you mind or
not, unless you give written permission for it to be published. Posting
to an open list or placing in a blog is publishing.
This is my understanding.
Doug
>I think it's sort of an established fact that you have to protect
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com<mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com>,
> "Susanne@..." <philbolger@...> wrote:
> >
> > So, who said it was o.k. to put my book-chapters/book, that are not
> out of copy-right quite yet, on the web. This is not exactly 'personal
> use'. And who is 'tomboy' ofhttp://www.boatdesign.com/tomboy
> <http://www.boatdesign.com/tomboy> ?
> > Signed, Philip C. Bolger
>
> >...Certainly Mr Merrell's enthusiastic promotion of Phil's designs
> >[and Micro in particular] led me in the right direction, i.e.
> >towards >the purchase of books both new and second hand, of plans,
> >and to the >construction of my own Micro...
>
> Spending hours of personal time assembling the info, paying monthly
> fees to keep the site up on the web, linking to Amazon for the sale of
> an "in print" book, and fully crediting the boat designer. If the
> designer/author had done it himself, it would be called MARKETING. If
> some one else does it to the designer/author's benefit for free, it's
> a violation of "personal use". Snort!
>
> Don
>
>
your own Copywrite. No mater how well intended, the effect of any one
who wants to violating your rights has the effect of eliminating the
protection. Anyone who allows the violation of his copy rights soon has
none.
When I write this e-mail it is automaticly copywriten. When I post
it for the whole world to read and do with what they please, at some
point some one else can write the same thing. It is copywriten to them
unless I protest. At some point my rights are lost. When the whole
world uses a copywritten property it is said to have gone into the
public domain. You must protest it's publication whether you mind or
not, unless you give written permission for it to be published. Posting
to an open list or placing in a blog is publishing.
This is my understanding.
Doug
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Susanne@..." <philbolger@...> wrote:
Don
>Spending hours of personal time assembling the info, paying monthly fees to keep the site up on the web, linking to Amazon for the sale of an "in print" book, and fully crediting the boat designer. If the designer/author had done it himself, it would be called MARKETING. If some one else does it to the designer/author's benefit for free, it's a violation of "personal use". Snort!
> So, who said it was o.k. to put my book-chapters/book, that are not out of copy-right quite yet, on the web. This is not exactly 'personal use'. And who is 'tomboy' ofhttp://www.boatdesign.com/tomboy?
> Signed, Philip C. Bolger
>...Certainly Mr Merrell's enthusiastic promotion of Phil's designs >[and Micro in particular] led me in the right direction, i.e. >towards >the purchase of books both new and second hand, of plans, >and to the >construction of my own Micro...
Don
Here is the WhoIs data for BOATDESIGN.COM
Merrell Watercraft
PO Box 80064
Seattle, WA 98108-0064
US
Domain Name: BOATDESIGN.COM
Administrative Contact :
Merrell Watercraft
chuckmerrell@...
PO Box 80064
Seattle, WA 98108-0064
US
Phone: (206) 764-1298
Fax: 999 999 9999
Technical Contact :
Merrell, Charles
chuckmerrell@...
PO Box 80064
Seattle, WA 98108-0064
US
Phone: (206) 764-1298
Fax: (603) 688-8429
Merrell Watercraft
PO Box 80064
Seattle, WA 98108-0064
US
Domain Name: BOATDESIGN.COM
Administrative Contact :
Merrell Watercraft
chuckmerrell@...
PO Box 80064
Seattle, WA 98108-0064
US
Phone: (206) 764-1298
Fax: 999 999 9999
Technical Contact :
Merrell, Charles
chuckmerrell@...
PO Box 80064
Seattle, WA 98108-0064
US
Phone: (206) 764-1298
Fax: (603) 688-8429
On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 12:31 PM, alefoot <dgw@...> wrote:
>
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@...> wrote:
>>
>> That is a reasonable question...
>>
>> It looks like the responsible party for reproduction of that chapter
>> on the Internet is the person running the website "boatdesign.net"
>> whois:
>
> The page I linked to is one claimed by Chuck Merrell, the builder of
> "Tomboy", the Jessie Cooper pictured on the cover of BWAOM. His email
> address is included on those pages, and certainly functioned a few years ago
> when I tried to contact him.
>
> Chuck Merrell's pages [Boatdesign.COM] are not [as far as I know] connected
> to Boatdesign.NET.
>
> I'm not in a position right now to run a 'whois' on the Boatdesign.com
> domain; perhaps there's a connection I've missed.
>
> I am sorry if I have stirred up trouble and ill-feeling here. Years ago,
> when looking for information on Phil's designs on the web I stumbled across
> Chuck Merrell's pages. On reflection, I'm inclined to agree that he may have
> played 'fast and loose' with the fair use clause, but then I'm no lawyer.
>
> Certainly Mr Merrell's enthusiastic promotion of Phil's designs [and Micro
> in particular] led me in the right direction, i.e. towards the purchase of
> books both new and second hand, of plans, and to the construction of my own
> Micro. I hope the situation can be sorted out amicably, and again apologise
> for any rancour I may have raised.
>
> Derek
>
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@...> wrote:
Chuck Merrell's pages [Boatdesign.COM] are not [as far as I know] connected to Boatdesign.NET.
I'm not in a position right now to run a 'whois' on the Boatdesign.com domain; perhaps there's a connection I've missed.
I am sorry if I have stirred up trouble and ill-feeling here. Years ago, when looking for information on Phil's designs on the web I stumbled across Chuck Merrell's pages. On reflection, I'm inclined to agree that he may have played 'fast and loose' with the fair use clause, but then I'm no lawyer.
Certainly Mr Merrell's enthusiastic promotion of Phil's designs [and Micro in particular] led me in the right direction, i.e. towards the purchase of books both new and second hand, of plans, and to the construction of my own Micro. I hope the situation can be sorted out amicably, and again apologise for any rancour I may have raised.
Derek
>The page I linked to is one claimed by Chuck Merrell, the builder of "Tomboy", the Jessie Cooper pictured on the cover of BWAOM. His email address is included on those pages, and certainly functioned a few years ago when I tried to contact him.
> That is a reasonable question...
>
> It looks like the responsible party for reproduction of that chapter
> on the Internet is the person running the website "boatdesign.net"
> whois:
Chuck Merrell's pages [Boatdesign.COM] are not [as far as I know] connected to Boatdesign.NET.
I'm not in a position right now to run a 'whois' on the Boatdesign.com domain; perhaps there's a connection I've missed.
I am sorry if I have stirred up trouble and ill-feeling here. Years ago, when looking for information on Phil's designs on the web I stumbled across Chuck Merrell's pages. On reflection, I'm inclined to agree that he may have played 'fast and loose' with the fair use clause, but then I'm no lawyer.
Certainly Mr Merrell's enthusiastic promotion of Phil's designs [and Micro in particular] led me in the right direction, i.e. towards the purchase of books both new and second hand, of plans, and to the construction of my own Micro. I hope the situation can be sorted out amicably, and again apologise for any rancour I may have raised.
Derek
That is a reasonable question...
It looks like the responsible party for reproduction of that chapter
on the Internet is the person running the website "boatdesign.net"
whois:
WHOIS information for boatdesign.net :
Registrant:
Boat Design Net
27220 Barney's Lake Road
P.O. Box 52
Beaver Island, MI 49782
US
Domain name: BOATDESIGN.NET
Administrative Contact:
Cashman, Jeffdns-admin@...
27220 Barney's Lake Road
P.O. Box 52
Beaver Island, MI 49782
US
+1.2314483070
Technical Contact:
Cashman, Jeffdns-admin@...
27220 Barney's Lake Road
P.O. Box 52
Beaver Island, MI 49782
US
+1.2314483070
On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 8:09 AM,Susanne@...
<philbolger@...> wrote:
It looks like the responsible party for reproduction of that chapter
on the Internet is the person running the website "boatdesign.net"
whois:
WHOIS information for boatdesign.net :
Registrant:
Boat Design Net
27220 Barney's Lake Road
P.O. Box 52
Beaver Island, MI 49782
US
Domain name: BOATDESIGN.NET
Administrative Contact:
Cashman, Jeffdns-admin@...
27220 Barney's Lake Road
P.O. Box 52
Beaver Island, MI 49782
US
+1.2314483070
Technical Contact:
Cashman, Jeffdns-admin@...
27220 Barney's Lake Road
P.O. Box 52
Beaver Island, MI 49782
US
+1.2314483070
On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 8:09 AM,Susanne@...
<philbolger@...> wrote:
>
>
> So, who said it was o.k. to put my book-chapters/book, that are not out of
> copy-right quite yet, on the web. This is not exactly 'personal use'. And
> who is 'tomboy' ofhttp://www.boatdesign.com/tomboy?
> Signed, Philip C. Bolger
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: David
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 10:37 AM
> Subject: [bolger] Re: Bolger boat ID
>
>> Not directly dealt with in the book, the progenitor of the AS29, a 1980
>> design called Jessie Cooper.
>>
>> The boat pictured on the cover of BWAOM is [iirc] "Tomboy", Chuck
>> Merrell's build.
>>
>>http://www.boatdesign.com/tomboy/Cooper/Page.html
>>
>> cheers
>> Derek
>>
>
> Thank you Derek!
>
> Be Well
>
> David
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
So, who said it was o.k. to put my book-chapters/book, that are not out of copy-right quite yet, on the web. This is not exactly 'personal use'. And who is 'tomboy' ofhttp://www.boatdesign.com/tomboy?
Signed, Philip C. Bolger
Signed, Philip C. Bolger
----- Original Message -----
From: David
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 10:37 AM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Bolger boat ID
> Not directly dealt with in the book, the progenitor of the AS29, a 1980 design called Jessie Cooper.
>
> The boat pictured on the cover of BWAOM is [iirc] "Tomboy", Chuck Merrell's build.
>
>http://www.boatdesign.com/tomboy/Cooper/Page.html
>
> cheers
> Derek
>
Thank you Derek!
Be Well
David
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
The Jessie Cooper has been a fascinating boat for me too, and I have
done a few isometric renderings see here
http://www.flickr.com/photos/hallman/tags/jessiecooper/
done a few isometric renderings see here
http://www.flickr.com/photos/hallman/tags/jessiecooper/
> Not directly dealt with in the book, the progenitor of the AS29, a 1980 design called Jessie Cooper.Thank you Derek!
>
> The boat pictured on the cover of BWAOM is [iirc] "Tomboy", Chuck Merrell's build.
>
>http://www.boatdesign.com/tomboy/Cooper/Page.html
>
> cheers
> Derek
>
Be Well
David
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "David" <davidjaywood@...> wrote:
"I just received my copy of "Boats with an Open Mind" and find myself intrigued with the vessel in the upper left hand corner...."
Not directly dealt with in the book, the progenitor of the AS29, a 1980 design called Jessie Cooper.
The boat pictured on the cover of BWAOM is [iirc] "Tomboy", Chuck Merrell's build.
http://www.boatdesign.com/tomboy/Cooper/Page.html
cheers
Derek
Good day to all,
Question from a new guy. I just received my copy of "Boats with an Open Mind" and find myself intrigued with the vessel in the upper left hand corner (the green white and red yawl)on the cover.
I can't seem to place it among those discribed in the book. An AS-29 variant? It also seems to resemble the Romp as depicted on pg. 85 of Mr. Bolgers "Different Boats".
I came to Bolger boats by way of the Sneakeasy design, to be used as an experimental electric drive platform, yet I do miss my classic plastic bay beater here on the San Francisco Bay. Maybe I've found a a new hull design to sail and hug.
Regards,
David Wood
Question from a new guy. I just received my copy of "Boats with an Open Mind" and find myself intrigued with the vessel in the upper left hand corner (the green white and red yawl)on the cover.
I can't seem to place it among those discribed in the book. An AS-29 variant? It also seems to resemble the Romp as depicted on pg. 85 of Mr. Bolgers "Different Boats".
I came to Bolger boats by way of the Sneakeasy design, to be used as an experimental electric drive platform, yet I do miss my classic plastic bay beater here on the San Francisco Bay. Maybe I've found a a new hull design to sail and hug.
Regards,
David Wood