Re: Modified Nymph - assessing some customizations
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Padvorac" <roger@...> wrote:
So I retreated back to trailerable boats, to maximize time on the water, as well as ability to quickly get to other sailing grounds. The Harpoon is great when I want to sail with the whole family; for that it's worth the setup and tear down time.
But when I want to go for a quick sail by myself, or with one other person, I'm finding the Nymph is plenty of fun, very quick to get on the water, and maximizes the sailing time vs. prep time equation.
My next build will be the Goat Island Skiff, in the same size range (15'6"), selected because it should also be quick to setup for an impromptu sail, be capable of carrying 3 or 4 persons, and not incidentally also be capable of winning our Wooden Boat Race in Beaufort, NC next spring ;).
Neil
>I used the regular Nymph sail - 39 sq ft. It could easily handle the larger Ruben's Nymph sail, but I wanted to err on the underpowered side for use by kids.
> Hi Neil,
> You got my curiosity going about a couple things. How many square feet of sail do you have on it and do you have any feelings about it maybe being better being a different size/height/width?
>
>I currently have a Harpoon 5.2 (17'), which is a bit of work to rig (I trailer it) and deploy for a quick sail. I also have access to other bigger boats, but again, they are all work to either rig or just to get away from the dock in less than 30-45 minutes.
> What I'm really curious about is how much bigger your bigger boats are. I keep reading the email from this group, looking at the boats on Payson's web site, and trying to figure out what would suit my day sailing needs the best and how big a boat would be adequate for this. As is common, my ideas have been having a tendency to escalate. I got worried after I briefly considered the Birdwatcher.
>
>This is the key for me. I've owned sail boats up to 33 feet, and on the big boats I found myself spending all my time at the boat doing maintenance (I live 3 hours away from the coast where they were kept). I figured I spent 3 days working on them for every day spent sailing.
> However, a little voice keeps trying to get through to me, and it says the right question is what would be too big and take too much of the fun out of building, maintaining, and hauling around a boat because doing this takes up all the time and energy I would have had to go out messing around in a sailboat.
>
> Its not just a length issue, though that is part of it, its the amount of displacement, size and strength of the needed boat trailer and how easy it is to tow it, the number of sails and the complexity of their rigging, how heavy the sails/masts/rigging are, the complexity of the additions to the basic hull, how long it takes to launch the boat and get it ready for sailing and put it away again, how focused and busy you have to be while sailing, and anything that eats up time and energy that could be used for relaxing or enjoying the experience of sailing.
>
So I retreated back to trailerable boats, to maximize time on the water, as well as ability to quickly get to other sailing grounds. The Harpoon is great when I want to sail with the whole family; for that it's worth the setup and tear down time.
But when I want to go for a quick sail by myself, or with one other person, I'm finding the Nymph is plenty of fun, very quick to get on the water, and maximizes the sailing time vs. prep time equation.
> So if your bigger boats are 30 feet long, have multiple sails, and weigh tons, I'm okay - if your bigger boats are similar to the Surf at 15'6" X 3' 7", then I might need to have another chat with myself :)It all boils down to setup time - from what I understand of Surf, it will be similar to Nymph in setup time, which is very fast. The sprit rig is quick to setup - that's the part that takes so much time with my Harpoon (untie and raise heavy mast, attach forestay, bend on sails, attach vang, downhaul, cunningham, feed all lines through blocks, raise sails - you get the idea!). With Nymph or Surf, you stick the mast in, unwrap the sail from the mast, insert boom in knotted mainsheet and cleat off snotter, and off you go! 5 minutes max.
>
> For those not familiar with the Nymphs, both of them are 7' 9" long.I'd say go for it WRT to Surf. Should be quick to setup, and minimal maintenance.
>
> Sincerely,
> Roger
>
My next build will be the Goat Island Skiff, in the same size range (15'6"), selected because it should also be quick to setup for an impromptu sail, be capable of carrying 3 or 4 persons, and not incidentally also be capable of winning our Wooden Boat Race in Beaufort, NC next spring ;).
Neil
Hi Neil,
You got my curiosity going about a couple things. How many square feet of sail do you have on it and do you have any feelings about it maybe being better being a different size/height/width?
What I'm really curious about is how much bigger your bigger boats are. I keep reading the email from this group, looking at the boats on Payson's web site, and trying to figure out what would suit my day sailing needs the best and how big a boat would be adequate for this. As is common, my ideas have been having a tendency to escalate. I got worried after I briefly considered the Birdwatcher.
However, a little voice keeps trying to get through to me, and it says the right question is what would be too big and take too much of the fun out of building, maintaining, and hauling around a boat because doing this takes up all the time and energy I would have had to go out messing around in a sailboat.
Its not just a length issue, though that is part of it, its the amount of displacement, size and strength of the needed boat trailer and how easy it is to tow it, the number of sails and the complexity of their rigging, how heavy the sails/masts/rigging are, the complexity of the additions to the basic hull, how long it takes to launch the boat and get it ready for sailing and put it away again, how focused and busy you have to be while sailing, and anything that eats up time and energy that could be used for relaxing or enjoying the experience of sailing.
So if your bigger boats are 30 feet long, have multiple sails, and weigh tons, I'm okay - if your bigger boats are similar to the Surf at 15'6" X 3' 7", then I might need to have another chat with myself :)
For those not familiar with the Nymphs, both of them are 7' 9" long.
Sincerely,
Roger
You got my curiosity going about a couple things. How many square feet of sail do you have on it and do you have any feelings about it maybe being better being a different size/height/width?
What I'm really curious about is how much bigger your bigger boats are. I keep reading the email from this group, looking at the boats on Payson's web site, and trying to figure out what would suit my day sailing needs the best and how big a boat would be adequate for this. As is common, my ideas have been having a tendency to escalate. I got worried after I briefly considered the Birdwatcher.
However, a little voice keeps trying to get through to me, and it says the right question is what would be too big and take too much of the fun out of building, maintaining, and hauling around a boat because doing this takes up all the time and energy I would have had to go out messing around in a sailboat.
Its not just a length issue, though that is part of it, its the amount of displacement, size and strength of the needed boat trailer and how easy it is to tow it, the number of sails and the complexity of their rigging, how heavy the sails/masts/rigging are, the complexity of the additions to the basic hull, how long it takes to launch the boat and get it ready for sailing and put it away again, how focused and busy you have to be while sailing, and anything that eats up time and energy that could be used for relaxing or enjoying the experience of sailing.
So if your bigger boats are 30 feet long, have multiple sails, and weigh tons, I'm okay - if your bigger boats are similar to the Surf at 15'6" X 3' 7", then I might need to have another chat with myself :)
For those not familiar with the Nymphs, both of them are 7' 9" long.
Sincerely,
Roger
----- Original Message -----
From: "nsimms" <nsimms@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 2:58 PM
Subject: [bolger] Modified Nymph - assessing some customizations
...
> - I felt Nymph is a bit narrow and tiddly (3'6" beam), and Ruben's Nymph a bit too wide and portly (4'6" beam), so I split the difference and built a 4 foot wide version.
> ...
> - I made the sail out of white Poly tarp, cutting a single dart at the tack, per Michalak's spritsail construction tutorial.
> ...
> I've found myself taking the boat out more often than my bigger boats this spring, due to the simplicity of the rigging, and the simple joy of moving a little boat through the water...
> ...
> Neil S.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I finally got around to finishing the rig this spring, on B'Limey, the modified Bolger Nymph my 12 y.o. son Andrew and I built last fall from Dynamite Payson's Instant Boats book. We have had it out sailing numerous times, and after some tweaks and upgrades are quite happy with its performance.
Here are some photos from Memorial Day weekend, where we had it out on Bogue Sound in coastal North Carolina:
http://www.bearinlet.com/simmetry/Zen/index.php?album=boats%2Fmay-2009-sailing-blimey
The boat was intended as a low-intimidation trainer for Andrew, which it has proven quite good at. Whereas he was reluctant to take the helm on bigger sailboats, he has solo'd happily and uneventfully on B'Limey, and looks forward to banging around in it with friends this summer.
The boat has been pretty heavily modified - the hull and rig are pure Bolger, but the interior and boards have been altered significantly. I would strongly shy away from such major departures on a larger boat design, but in a little boat like this I felt I wanted to try some of my own ideas and see how they'd work out. If it was a disaster, it would be no great loss in time or money. I was careful to keep the hull form original, and the balance points essentially unchanged (rudder blade length/angle and board location and length).
The key changes:
- I felt Nymph is a bit narrow and tiddly (3'6" beam), and Ruben's Nymph a bit too wide and portly (4'6" beam), so I split the difference and built a 4 foot wide version.
- Being intended primarily for sailing, I did away with the longitudinal rowing thwart, and eliminated the middle frame. This, combined with adding watertight compartments fore and aft via a full bulkhead rather than frame at the aft edge of the mast thwart (and addition of a foredeck), along with a raised frame at the rear to provide a seat compartment, made for a wide-open bathtub in the middle, for lounging about by one or two persons while sailing. These changes also made the boat unsinkable - if capsized, due to her inherent buoyancy you just right her, roll back in over the side, bail her out, and off you go again. Waterproof hatches in each compartment also provide sealed storage for valuables. I used PVC tubing between the mast thwart and sealed step to keep the forward compartment watertight; this drains into the cockpit/bathtub in case of rain or shipping a wave over the bow.
- Rowing is accomplished by sitting on two stacked throwable cushions.
- Sailing is a shallow-water exercise in these parts, so I borrowed the kickup rudder from the Gypsy plans rather than building the fixed one Phil spec'd for Nymph. I did modify the Gypsy tiller to allow the handle to swing up and over the rudder head and trail behind (as does Nymph's in its plans), - useful when rowing with two persons aboard, so the crew can sit on the aft seat, and not have a tiller handle poking them in the back.
- Initially I built the leeboard as spec'd, but the wooden clamps which hold it to the hull broke off the first time out (should have used something stronger than SPF for them, and probably needed to beef them up a bit - admittedly our maiden launch was in a 20 knot blow, so we were certainly stressing things). So I went to Plan B - adding a bilgeboard case inside, to port, and building a half inch thick bilgeboard/daggerboard. This has worked real well - strong, and easily pulled up when running into a sandbar. It stays in place via a bungee angled down and forward (see photos), like my Hobie 18 boards in a previous life. Overall a highly recommended modification!
- I made the sail out of white Poly tarp, cutting a single dart at the tack, per Michalak's spritsail construction tutorial. This has worked very well, with my only gripe being the 'cloth' is a bit heavy, making it hard to detect luffing on the forward edge of the sail when trimming. But it performs beyond expectations, and I derive a lot of satisfaction getting that much performance for that little money!
- Rather than have the oars stow with blades inserted in slots in the transom, as spec'd in the Ruben's plans, I stow them with the blades resting on the mast thwart, with a couple of bungee strips installed to hold them in place on each side. This leaves the oar handles sticking out toward the rear, which I think is better when sailing, vs., the plans method which leaves them sticking out forward.
Overall these changes have worked out very well. One concern I had was whether the boat would lose some rigidity with the elimination of the middle frame, and of the long rowing thwart. But the addition of the watertight bulkhead 'boxes' fore and aft, together with the very robust gunwales as originally spec'd, and the inherent strength of a multi-chine hull, have resulted in a very solid boat, easily able to hold my son's and my 400+ lbs in a blow without any noticable flexing.
The boat moves very well; we've recorded 4.4 mph sustained in a 10-12 mph breeze, on a reach with the two of us aboard, which surprised me. I was worried we would be going backwards at times in the 2mph+ currents we have on our coast, but this has not proven to be the case. If there's 5mph or more of wind, we're able to outrun the tide. This is with the standard Nymph 39 sq ft sail (I went with the smaller sail rather than the bigger Ruben's sail, in keeping with the 'training' boat intent).
Color scheme was selected by Andrew, and I didn't think I'd like it, but it turned out pretty cool, and we've had lots of complements. Fine finish by Home Depot! Cheap AC fir ply and lumberyard two-by-fours make up the timber components.
I've found myself taking the boat out more often than my bigger boats this spring, due to the simplicity of the rigging, and the simple joy of moving a little boat through the water...
Thank you, Phil (and Sue) - your legacy lives on through such wonderful designs.
Neil S.
Here are some photos from Memorial Day weekend, where we had it out on Bogue Sound in coastal North Carolina:
http://www.bearinlet.com/simmetry/Zen/index.php?album=boats%2Fmay-2009-sailing-blimey
The boat was intended as a low-intimidation trainer for Andrew, which it has proven quite good at. Whereas he was reluctant to take the helm on bigger sailboats, he has solo'd happily and uneventfully on B'Limey, and looks forward to banging around in it with friends this summer.
The boat has been pretty heavily modified - the hull and rig are pure Bolger, but the interior and boards have been altered significantly. I would strongly shy away from such major departures on a larger boat design, but in a little boat like this I felt I wanted to try some of my own ideas and see how they'd work out. If it was a disaster, it would be no great loss in time or money. I was careful to keep the hull form original, and the balance points essentially unchanged (rudder blade length/angle and board location and length).
The key changes:
- I felt Nymph is a bit narrow and tiddly (3'6" beam), and Ruben's Nymph a bit too wide and portly (4'6" beam), so I split the difference and built a 4 foot wide version.
- Being intended primarily for sailing, I did away with the longitudinal rowing thwart, and eliminated the middle frame. This, combined with adding watertight compartments fore and aft via a full bulkhead rather than frame at the aft edge of the mast thwart (and addition of a foredeck), along with a raised frame at the rear to provide a seat compartment, made for a wide-open bathtub in the middle, for lounging about by one or two persons while sailing. These changes also made the boat unsinkable - if capsized, due to her inherent buoyancy you just right her, roll back in over the side, bail her out, and off you go again. Waterproof hatches in each compartment also provide sealed storage for valuables. I used PVC tubing between the mast thwart and sealed step to keep the forward compartment watertight; this drains into the cockpit/bathtub in case of rain or shipping a wave over the bow.
- Rowing is accomplished by sitting on two stacked throwable cushions.
- Sailing is a shallow-water exercise in these parts, so I borrowed the kickup rudder from the Gypsy plans rather than building the fixed one Phil spec'd for Nymph. I did modify the Gypsy tiller to allow the handle to swing up and over the rudder head and trail behind (as does Nymph's in its plans), - useful when rowing with two persons aboard, so the crew can sit on the aft seat, and not have a tiller handle poking them in the back.
- Initially I built the leeboard as spec'd, but the wooden clamps which hold it to the hull broke off the first time out (should have used something stronger than SPF for them, and probably needed to beef them up a bit - admittedly our maiden launch was in a 20 knot blow, so we were certainly stressing things). So I went to Plan B - adding a bilgeboard case inside, to port, and building a half inch thick bilgeboard/daggerboard. This has worked real well - strong, and easily pulled up when running into a sandbar. It stays in place via a bungee angled down and forward (see photos), like my Hobie 18 boards in a previous life. Overall a highly recommended modification!
- I made the sail out of white Poly tarp, cutting a single dart at the tack, per Michalak's spritsail construction tutorial. This has worked very well, with my only gripe being the 'cloth' is a bit heavy, making it hard to detect luffing on the forward edge of the sail when trimming. But it performs beyond expectations, and I derive a lot of satisfaction getting that much performance for that little money!
- Rather than have the oars stow with blades inserted in slots in the transom, as spec'd in the Ruben's plans, I stow them with the blades resting on the mast thwart, with a couple of bungee strips installed to hold them in place on each side. This leaves the oar handles sticking out toward the rear, which I think is better when sailing, vs., the plans method which leaves them sticking out forward.
Overall these changes have worked out very well. One concern I had was whether the boat would lose some rigidity with the elimination of the middle frame, and of the long rowing thwart. But the addition of the watertight bulkhead 'boxes' fore and aft, together with the very robust gunwales as originally spec'd, and the inherent strength of a multi-chine hull, have resulted in a very solid boat, easily able to hold my son's and my 400+ lbs in a blow without any noticable flexing.
The boat moves very well; we've recorded 4.4 mph sustained in a 10-12 mph breeze, on a reach with the two of us aboard, which surprised me. I was worried we would be going backwards at times in the 2mph+ currents we have on our coast, but this has not proven to be the case. If there's 5mph or more of wind, we're able to outrun the tide. This is with the standard Nymph 39 sq ft sail (I went with the smaller sail rather than the bigger Ruben's sail, in keeping with the 'training' boat intent).
Color scheme was selected by Andrew, and I didn't think I'd like it, but it turned out pretty cool, and we've had lots of complements. Fine finish by Home Depot! Cheap AC fir ply and lumberyard two-by-fours make up the timber components.
I've found myself taking the boat out more often than my bigger boats this spring, due to the simplicity of the rigging, and the simple joy of moving a little boat through the water...
Thank you, Phil (and Sue) - your legacy lives on through such wonderful designs.
Neil S.