Re: S & G Gloucester gull
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen" <jhkohnen@...> wrote:
>Frenchmans Bay, Penobscot Bay. That picture was taken on the Penobscot river in the Frankfort conservation area. I live in Bangor, Maine.
> Very nice! Where do you row her?
>
> On Tue, 16 Jun 2009 05:15:22 -0700, salkaln2 wrote:
>
> > Added photo of my pulling boat in Photos under "Athey".
>
> --
> John <jkohnen@...>
> Eels are said to kelter in the water when they wamble.
>
On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 4:55 PM, Paul & Susanne <glassens@...> wrote:
"Small Boat Journal" (SBJ) during the 1980's. About half of the
Cartoon designs were later republished as chapters in the book Boats
With An Open Mind, still in print. The SBJ magazines come up for sale
on ebay every so often, and probably still exist in better libraries,
but are not online.
You can pick out the cartoons from the design database in this Yahoo
group or here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Phil_Bolger#table_of_designs
>The Bolger numbered Cartoon designs were published in the old magazine
>
> I am new to navigating the web world of boat designs. Is there somewhere that the Bolger ``cartoon`` designs can be seen?
> Thanks
"Small Boat Journal" (SBJ) during the 1980's. About half of the
Cartoon designs were later republished as chapters in the book Boats
With An Open Mind, still in print. The SBJ magazines come up for sale
on ebay every so often, and probably still exist in better libraries,
but are not online.
You can pick out the cartoons from the design database in this Yahoo
group or here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Phil_Bolger#table_of_designs
Thanks to all forumite, the discussion around GG is more than I expected when starting that thread.
I think I will build Her according to Payson's book instead of S & G.
And many thanks to Phil Bolger that probably rows his Gull in somewhere up there...
-- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "adventures_in_astrophotography" <jon@...> wrote:
I think I will build Her according to Payson's book instead of S & G.
And many thanks to Phil Bolger that probably rows his Gull in somewhere up there...
-- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "adventures_in_astrophotography" <jon@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Jeb,
>
> > The original Gloucester Gull, 15.5', would be very difficult to build s@g
> > from ¼ " or even 6mm plywood. Use Payson's step by step presented in his how
> > to book for the Gull (just don't expect to get away with 1982 prices for
> > materials). The 19.6' stretched version, on the other hand, would lend
> > itself very well to s@g construction. It can be laid up without strongback
> > or mold and put together way more easily than an s@g kayak (no deck or
> > coamings required). To my knowledge, neither Payson nor Bolger ever gave any
> > written instruction for putting the stretched version together. Payson would
> > most likely suggest tack and tape. I'd opt for s@g, having built several
> > kayaks by that method.
>
> I built a Long Light Dory (19'-6" version of the light dory) a couple of years ago. My building method was a combination of "stitch and glue" and "tack and tape" in that I stitched where possible and tacked where necessary. To me, how one temporarily holds the prefabricated parts together until filleting and taping is mostly a matter of semantics.
>
> Payson has the plans and building instructions for the Long Light Dory in his latest book. However, I diverge with Payson on one aspect of his approach for that boat. The plans call for a pair of long seat bearers that span the length of hull between the first and last frames. Payson claims these are essential structural members and must be permanently installed. I interpreted the plans to mean that they were installed after the hull was built and were removable. The hull is very, very stiff with a 1-1/2" squarish gunwale. Payson's book wasn't out yet when I built, and correspondence with PCB validated my approach, so that's how I proceeded. There is no building key for this design, so it's not surprising that different builders would take different approaches. Photos of my building sequence are on my website linked below.
>
> One advantage of building the longer version is that it's much better for taking a passenger or a second rower, and can even take two rowers and a passenger. PCB wrote about the reasoning for this design in MAIB within about the last three years. Since my seat bearers are removable, I built a second set that only span from the first to the middle frame, thus clearing out the entire aft part of the interior for dog, camping gear, or whatever.
>
> The disadvantages of the longer version are that it will require a trailer, or else you'd need a very strong roof rack and always have a helper. I haul mine on a utility trailer and use a shop-built dolly to wheel it to the water. It's also a little lively when rowing alone, although I've never had any trouble handling it.
>
> Jon Kolb
> www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
>
I am new to navigating the web world of boat
designs. Is there somewhere that the Bolger ``cartoon`` designs can
be seen?
Thanks
----- Original Message -----From:Bruce HallmanSent:Monday, June 15, 2009 7:28 AMSubject:[SPAM]Re: [bolger] Re: S & G Gloucester gull>>
> I have rowed a G.Gull for years. Built in 1969. I too wanted a row boat that
> could be car topped. Solution: go to Long Lake Wooden Boats website. Buy
> plans for Athey. It is a 15' version of N.G. Herreshof's pulling boat. 60hrs
> of easy work with 4mm ply will get you a easily car topped 60lb. pulling
> boat. A dream to row and thwart is perfectly placed so you can carry her on
> your back just like a conoe. Btw I am 65yrs. of age.
>
Similar for Bolger's "Cartoon 5" aka "Ultralight rowboat for
homebuilders" which is just an awesome 15'6" rowboat easy to carry on
your shoulders. Very stable solo, fast, and carries a big load too.
I just had mine last weekend, solo cartopped, and solo carried down to
the beach for launch and rowing in the Pacific Ocean. (Very light
surf that day).
>> the L. Francis Herreshoff rowboatTo my eyes, this boat also has similarities to the early Bolger 'light
dory' design named "Golden River".
" I paddle canoes (solo models) rather than kayaks."
I have had extensive experience with both, and mostly paddles solo canoes inland, and love the control and view, and portaging (comparatively). But if I was worried about climbing back in, I would first be worried about falling out, and I would personally give a huge edge to Kayks, plus with kayaks they are easily rolled back up. While there are middle of the ocean discussions about the practicality of rolling back up if you are in weather that dumped you in the first place, I would say the reality for mostis that they will do a silly topple some day, and with the Kayak you are back up in a second. Rolling with an extended grip is not physically strenuous, once you know how, and get past the waterboarding aspect of it.
As far as S&G is concerned, it would be possible and with the price of quality stock it might be an idea. PB boats are not lofted for S&G, I can do it myself in various computer programs, though you would run the risk of loosing some subtleties. The other option is to build it till you get to the point that the bottom goes on then morph to a more S&G approach. You need some timber to pop a fair bottom shape. You could simply do as required with some cheap wood, then flip and tape the inside, saw off the outside junk and tape the outside, that would be as fast as anything else, and woudl give you the real boat.
I have always dumped the external chine detail on Bolgers. I would consider he has it right for his environment, with the boats spending a large amount of time in the water, and people tromping in and out of them with normally dirty boots. But for the rec. user, lower drag, cartopping for some designs, etc... I would not have an external chine. But I probably wouldn't end up stitching it either.
By the way, stitching is good marketing, sounds easy, but stitching wood with wire, or even plastic, adjusting it, etc... is not as easy as almost any of the many cleverer alternatives. So don't get wrapped up in the hype. One other thing though is to consider that all the Payson directed designs, and some of the others, were developed for fiberglass resin rather than epoxy. I vastly prefer epoxy, and structurally there is a lot of excess built into these designs that needs to be trimmed, particularly bulkheads, if one is going to use epoxy. This does create it's challenges for retaining shape etc...
The GG is a great boat to row. I don't find it tippy at all, but I have a smaller boat background in spades. What it is, however, is tippy if you invade the space that is outboard of the floor area, this would pretty much limit re-boarding to the transom, I would guess. Mount a rope ladder, from a climbing store (etrier), there and practice. It is best thought of as a shell, with the rowing outriggers built into the envelope, and a resultant huge improvement in seakeeping.
I have had extensive experience with both, and mostly paddles solo canoes inland, and love the control and view, and portaging (comparatively). But if I was worried about climbing back in, I would first be worried about falling out, and I would personally give a huge edge to Kayks, plus with kayaks they are easily rolled back up. While there are middle of the ocean discussions about the practicality of rolling back up if you are in weather that dumped you in the first place, I would say the reality for mostis that they will do a silly topple some day, and with the Kayak you are back up in a second. Rolling with an extended grip is not physically strenuous, once you know how, and get past the waterboarding aspect of it.
As far as S&G is concerned, it would be possible and with the price of quality stock it might be an idea. PB boats are not lofted for S&G, I can do it myself in various computer programs, though you would run the risk of loosing some subtleties. The other option is to build it till you get to the point that the bottom goes on then morph to a more S&G approach. You need some timber to pop a fair bottom shape. You could simply do as required with some cheap wood, then flip and tape the inside, saw off the outside junk and tape the outside, that would be as fast as anything else, and woudl give you the real boat.
I have always dumped the external chine detail on Bolgers. I would consider he has it right for his environment, with the boats spending a large amount of time in the water, and people tromping in and out of them with normally dirty boots. But for the rec. user, lower drag, cartopping for some designs, etc... I would not have an external chine. But I probably wouldn't end up stitching it either.
By the way, stitching is good marketing, sounds easy, but stitching wood with wire, or even plastic, adjusting it, etc... is not as easy as almost any of the many cleverer alternatives. So don't get wrapped up in the hype. One other thing though is to consider that all the Payson directed designs, and some of the others, were developed for fiberglass resin rather than epoxy. I vastly prefer epoxy, and structurally there is a lot of excess built into these designs that needs to be trimmed, particularly bulkheads, if one is going to use epoxy. This does create it's challenges for retaining shape etc...
The GG is a great boat to row. I don't find it tippy at all, but I have a smaller boat background in spades. What it is, however, is tippy if you invade the space that is outboard of the floor area, this would pretty much limit re-boarding to the transom, I would guess. Mount a rope ladder, from a climbing store (etrier), there and practice. It is best thought of as a shell, with the rowing outriggers built into the envelope, and a resultant huge improvement in seakeeping.
Very nice! Where do you row her?
On Tue, 16 Jun 2009 05:15:22 -0700, salkaln2 wrote:
> Added photo of my pulling boat in Photos under "Athey".
--
John <jkohnen@...>
Eels are said to kelter in the water when they wamble.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@...> wrote:
>It is somewhat faster than the G.G having a longer w.l. Also less free board with less windage. However she is tippy and one must step in the center of the bottom with hands on both gunnels upon entering. What I do like about her is the fact that I can row against a choppy 25kt sea and still make headway in more comfort btw. Another atribute is when lying to she will remain head to wind stern to. Just sit back in the bottom of the boat and rest,read,eat a sandwich, whatever. G.G. always lies broadside in seasick mode. If I were youmger I would have built the original 17' version: faster same dimensions except frame spacing. Paul
> You must be speaking of the diagram 357, page 137 Vol 2. That looks
> like a great rowing shape, and with a little lofting there is plenty
> of information in that diagram to build one. I think it would row
> very fast and have more stability than a Glouchester Gull and take
> about twice the building time. Here are isometrics...
>
>http://www.flickr.com/photos/hallman/3629573664/
>
> On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 8:50 AM, John Kohnen<jhkohnen@...> wrote:
> > That's Sage Boats now. He got his Herreshoff's mixed up. Nat Herreshoff
> > wasn't writing articles for Rudder in 1947 (he wasn't doing much writing
> > at all, being dead for almost 10 years). The inspiration for Sage's
> > rowboat was drawn by Nat's son, Francis, and the Rudder article was
> > reprinted in the book, The Common Sense of Yacht Design. The small
> > drawing, or "cartoon," of a 17' double-ended rowboat, with no dimensions,
> > in the article and book wasn't enough to build a boat, but they've
> > inspired many designers since their publication. John Gardner drew up
> > plans for a boat based on the Herreshoff drawing and published it in
> > National Fisherman and his book, Building Classic Small Craft Vol. 2. Jim
> > Michalak was also inspired by the L. Francis Herreshoff rowboat:
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen" <jhkohnen@...> wrote:
http://www.sageboats.com/why.html- fascinating
> Here's Sage Boats:&http://www.sageboats.com/index.html
>
>http://webpages.charter.net/dkuperstein/
http://www.sageboats.com/why.html- fascinating
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "salkaln2" <salkaln2@...> wrote:
>Added photo of my pulling boat in Photos under "Athey".
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "courrielel" <courrielel@> wrote:
> >
> > I have seen many articles describing the gloucester gull dory abilities. Many say that she is tippy but that she rows like a dream.
> > I would like to have some feed back about her handling and also have information on how to build her stitch and glue (if possible)
> > It will be a first project...Ah also, would flotation tanks make reentry possible ?
> > Éric
> >
> I have rowed a G.Gull for years. Built in 1969. I too wanted a row boat that could be car topped. Solution: go to Long Lake Wooden Boats website. Buy plans for Athey. It is a 15' version of N.G. Herreshof's pulling boat. 60hrs of easy work with 4mm ply will get you a easily car topped 60lb. pulling boat. A dream to row and thwart is perfectly placed so you can carry her on your back just like a conoe. Btw I am 65yrs. of age.
>
You must be speaking of the diagram 357, page 137 Vol 2. That looks
like a great rowing shape, and with a little lofting there is plenty
of information in that diagram to build one. I think it would row
very fast and have more stability than a Glouchester Gull and take
about twice the building time. Here are isometrics...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/hallman/3629573664/
like a great rowing shape, and with a little lofting there is plenty
of information in that diagram to build one. I think it would row
very fast and have more stability than a Glouchester Gull and take
about twice the building time. Here are isometrics...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/hallman/3629573664/
On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 8:50 AM, John Kohnen<jhkohnen@...> wrote:
> That's Sage Boats now. He got his Herreshoff's mixed up. Nat Herreshoff
> wasn't writing articles for Rudder in 1947 (he wasn't doing much writing
> at all, being dead for almost 10 years). The inspiration for Sage's
> rowboat was drawn by Nat's son, Francis, and the Rudder article was
> reprinted in the book, The Common Sense of Yacht Design. The small
> drawing, or "cartoon," of a 17' double-ended rowboat, with no dimensions,
> in the article and book wasn't enough to build a boat, but they've
> inspired many designers since their publication. John Gardner drew up
> plans for a boat based on the Herreshoff drawing and published it in
> National Fisherman and his book, Building Classic Small Craft Vol. 2. Jim
> Michalak was also inspired by the L. Francis Herreshoff rowboat:
That's Sage Boats now. He got his Herreshoff's mixed up. Nat Herreshoff
wasn't writing articles for Rudder in 1947 (he wasn't doing much writing
at all, being dead for almost 10 years). The inspiration for Sage's
rowboat was drawn by Nat's son, Francis, and the Rudder article was
reprinted in the book, The Common Sense of Yacht Design. The small
drawing, or "cartoon," of a 17' double-ended rowboat, with no dimensions,
in the article and book wasn't enough to build a boat, but they've
inspired many designers since their publication. John Gardner drew up
plans for a boat based on the Herreshoff drawing and published it in
National Fisherman and his book, Building Classic Small Craft Vol. 2. Jim
Michalak was also inspired by the L. Francis Herreshoff rowboat:
http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/lhf17/
(Jim M says he found the drawing in Sensible Cruising Designs, but I think
it's actually in The Common Sense of Yacht Design)
Here's Sage Boats:
http://webpages.charter.net/dkuperstein/
wasn't writing articles for Rudder in 1947 (he wasn't doing much writing
at all, being dead for almost 10 years). The inspiration for Sage's
rowboat was drawn by Nat's son, Francis, and the Rudder article was
reprinted in the book, The Common Sense of Yacht Design. The small
drawing, or "cartoon," of a 17' double-ended rowboat, with no dimensions,
in the article and book wasn't enough to build a boat, but they've
inspired many designers since their publication. John Gardner drew up
plans for a boat based on the Herreshoff drawing and published it in
National Fisherman and his book, Building Classic Small Craft Vol. 2. Jim
Michalak was also inspired by the L. Francis Herreshoff rowboat:
http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/lhf17/
(Jim M says he found the drawing in Sensible Cruising Designs, but I think
it's actually in The Common Sense of Yacht Design)
Here's Sage Boats:
http://webpages.charter.net/dkuperstein/
On Mon, 15 Jun 2009 05:57:47 -0700, salkaln2 wrote:
> I have rowed a G.Gull for years. Built in 1969. I too wanted a row boat
> that could be car topped. Solution: go to Long Lake Wooden Boats
> website. Buy plans for Athey. It is a 15' version of N.G. Herreshof's
> pulling boat. 60hrs of easy work with 4mm ply will get you a easily car
> topped 60lb. pulling boat. A dream to row and thwart is perfectly placed
> so you can carry her on your back just like a conoe. Btw I am 65yrs. of
> age.
--
John <jkohnen@...>
Never put off until tomorrow what you can do the day after
tomorrow. <Mark Twain>
>>Similar for Bolger's "Cartoon 5" aka "Ultralight rowboat for
> I have rowed a G.Gull for years. Built in 1969. I too wanted a row boat that
> could be car topped. Solution: go to Long Lake Wooden Boats website. Buy
> plans for Athey. It is a 15' version of N.G. Herreshof's pulling boat. 60hrs
> of easy work with 4mm ply will get you a easily car topped 60lb. pulling
> boat. A dream to row and thwart is perfectly placed so you can carry her on
> your back just like a conoe. Btw I am 65yrs. of age.
>
homebuilders" which is just an awesome 15'6" rowboat easy to carry on
your shoulders. Very stable solo, fast, and carries a big load too.
I just had mine last weekend, solo cartopped, and solo carried down to
the beach for launch and rowing in the Pacific Ocean. (Very light
surf that day).
I love my GG, built by a friend with 1/4" Lauan sides and 3/8" Fir bottom. Rows like a dream, very tippy but does firm up with a load. I went on a camping trip with it shortly after I bought it and found that it rows much better with a couple hundred pounds of driftwood/firewood.
Mine is open and will likely remain that way this summer so that I can enjoy it, however this winter I plan to add some decks for and aft with bulkheads, watertight hatches, etc. to decrease the volume available for swamping. I would like to do some playing in the surf next summer, so decking over a majority of the boat would be beneficial in that sense. I also hope to do some boat camping too; I'm trying to make my GG into an "Expedition" model.
Another good friend of mine gives me hell about my plan, saying that I'll make it too heavy. He doesn't row much and has never rowed my boat (to my knowledge...) so I don't pay attention to him too much. (Sorry John).
In short, the GG is a great boat and you can't go wrong adding weight as long as it's well balanced.
Greg
Mine is open and will likely remain that way this summer so that I can enjoy it, however this winter I plan to add some decks for and aft with bulkheads, watertight hatches, etc. to decrease the volume available for swamping. I would like to do some playing in the surf next summer, so decking over a majority of the boat would be beneficial in that sense. I also hope to do some boat camping too; I'm trying to make my GG into an "Expedition" model.
Another good friend of mine gives me hell about my plan, saying that I'll make it too heavy. He doesn't row much and has never rowed my boat (to my knowledge...) so I don't pay attention to him too much. (Sorry John).
In short, the GG is a great boat and you can't go wrong adding weight as long as it's well balanced.
Greg
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "courrielel" <courrielel@...> wrote:
>
> I have seen many articles describing the gloucester gull dory abilities. Many say that she is tippy but that she rows like a dream.
> I would like to have some feed back about her handling and also have information on how to build her stitch and glue (if possible)
> It will be a first project...Ah also, would flotation tanks make reentry possible ?
> Éric
>
Hi Jeb,
Payson has the plans and building instructions for the Long Light Dory in his latest book. However, I diverge with Payson on one aspect of his approach for that boat. The plans call for a pair of long seat bearers that span the length of hull between the first and last frames. Payson claims these are essential structural members and must be permanently installed. I interpreted the plans to mean that they were installed after the hull was built and were removable. The hull is very, very stiff with a 1-1/2" squarish gunwale. Payson's book wasn't out yet when I built, and correspondence with PCB validated my approach, so that's how I proceeded. There is no building key for this design, so it's not surprising that different builders would take different approaches. Photos of my building sequence are on my website linked below.
One advantage of building the longer version is that it's much better for taking a passenger or a second rower, and can even take two rowers and a passenger. PCB wrote about the reasoning for this design in MAIB within about the last three years. Since my seat bearers are removable, I built a second set that only span from the first to the middle frame, thus clearing out the entire aft part of the interior for dog, camping gear, or whatever.
The disadvantages of the longer version are that it will require a trailer, or else you'd need a very strong roof rack and always have a helper. I haul mine on a utility trailer and use a shop-built dolly to wheel it to the water. It's also a little lively when rowing alone, although I've never had any trouble handling it.
Jon Kolb
www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
> The original Gloucester Gull, 15.5', would be very difficult to build s@gI built a Long Light Dory (19'-6" version of the light dory) a couple of years ago. My building method was a combination of "stitch and glue" and "tack and tape" in that I stitched where possible and tacked where necessary. To me, how one temporarily holds the prefabricated parts together until filleting and taping is mostly a matter of semantics.
> from ¼ " or even 6mm plywood. Use Payson's step by step presented in his how
> to book for the Gull (just don't expect to get away with 1982 prices for
> materials). The 19.6' stretched version, on the other hand, would lend
> itself very well to s@g construction. It can be laid up without strongback
> or mold and put together way more easily than an s@g kayak (no deck or
> coamings required). To my knowledge, neither Payson nor Bolger ever gave any
> written instruction for putting the stretched version together. Payson would
> most likely suggest tack and tape. I'd opt for s@g, having built several
> kayaks by that method.
Payson has the plans and building instructions for the Long Light Dory in his latest book. However, I diverge with Payson on one aspect of his approach for that boat. The plans call for a pair of long seat bearers that span the length of hull between the first and last frames. Payson claims these are essential structural members and must be permanently installed. I interpreted the plans to mean that they were installed after the hull was built and were removable. The hull is very, very stiff with a 1-1/2" squarish gunwale. Payson's book wasn't out yet when I built, and correspondence with PCB validated my approach, so that's how I proceeded. There is no building key for this design, so it's not surprising that different builders would take different approaches. Photos of my building sequence are on my website linked below.
One advantage of building the longer version is that it's much better for taking a passenger or a second rower, and can even take two rowers and a passenger. PCB wrote about the reasoning for this design in MAIB within about the last three years. Since my seat bearers are removable, I built a second set that only span from the first to the middle frame, thus clearing out the entire aft part of the interior for dog, camping gear, or whatever.
The disadvantages of the longer version are that it will require a trailer, or else you'd need a very strong roof rack and always have a helper. I haul mine on a utility trailer and use a shop-built dolly to wheel it to the water. It's also a little lively when rowing alone, although I've never had any trouble handling it.
Jon Kolb
www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "courrielel" <courrielel@...> wrote:
>I have rowed a G.Gull for years. Built in 1969. I too wanted a row boat that could be car topped. Solution: go to Long Lake Wooden Boats website. Buy plans for Athey. It is a 15' version of N.G. Herreshof's pulling boat. 60hrs of easy work with 4mm ply will get you a easily car topped 60lb. pulling boat. A dream to row and thwart is perfectly placed so you can carry her on your back just like a conoe. Btw I am 65yrs. of age.
> I have seen many articles describing the gloucester gull dory abilities. Many say that she is tippy but that she rows like a dream.
> I would like to have some feed back about her handling and also have information on how to build her stitch and glue (if possible)
> It will be a first project...Ah also, would flotation tanks make reentry possible ?
> Éric
>
Hi Paul et al.
I have built a GG, to Paysons book dimensions, stitch&glue(with 19' LD plans as an additional reference). 6mm sides, 10mm bottom, no problems. You have to loft the bottom but Paysons book gives sufficient dimensions to do this (I should have recorded my offsets).I built flotation chambers in each end nearly as high as the sheer and put foam under the main thwart. Capsize&reentry drill : Stand up! you will most likely fall in and the boat will snap back up... dry! Grab the boat before she blows away, pull it down onto its side and scoop yourself in, sit on the bottom and bail, preferably fast with a big bucket if there is any wave action to beat the inflow.
Fantastic rough water boat! Weak points , rounds up with a light load and a beam wind, "stamps" into a short chop.
Wayne Poulsen
Fremantle
West Australia
I have built a GG, to Paysons book dimensions, stitch&glue(with 19' LD plans as an additional reference). 6mm sides, 10mm bottom, no problems. You have to loft the bottom but Paysons book gives sufficient dimensions to do this (I should have recorded my offsets).I built flotation chambers in each end nearly as high as the sheer and put foam under the main thwart. Capsize&reentry drill : Stand up! you will most likely fall in and the boat will snap back up... dry! Grab the boat before she blows away, pull it down onto its side and scoop yourself in, sit on the bottom and bail, preferably fast with a big bucket if there is any wave action to beat the inflow.
Fantastic rough water boat! Weak points , rounds up with a light load and a beam wind, "stamps" into a short chop.
Wayne Poulsen
Fremantle
West Australia
>I believe I
> You make the excellent recommendation of additional floatation - I use white water outfitter's inflatable bags in my canoes. What do you use in your Gull?
>
> Have you experimented with deep water re-entry to the Gull and how does it work? Over the side or the end? Enough freeboard left when swamped to bail out?
>
> Thanks,
> Paul
> can get back in the Gull and more importantly I can get someone else in
> it if they dump their boat. Much harder to dump a gull also compared to
> a kayak. Keep the flotation high fore and aft.
>
> HJ
>
> courrielel wrote:
> > I have seen many articles describing the gloucester gull dory abilities. Many say that she is tippy but that she rows like a dream.
> > I would like to have some feed back about her handling and also have information on how to build her stitch and glue (if possible)
> > It will be a first project...Ah also, would flotation tanks make reentry possible ?
> > Éric
> >
> >
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The original Gloucester Gull, 15.5’, would be very difficult to build s@g from ¼ “ or even 6mm plywood. Use Payson’s step by step presented in his how to book for the Gull (just don’t expect to get away with 1982 prices for materials). The 19.6’ stretched version, on the other hand, would lend itself very well to s@g construction. It can be laid up without strongback or mold and put together way more easily than an s@g kayak (no deck or coamings required). To my knowledge, neither Payson nor Bolger ever gave any written instruction for putting the stretched version together. Payson would most likely suggest tack and tape. I’d opt for s@g, having built several kayaks by that method.
jeb
HJ,
I too am of an age when getting back into a
capsized boat is a concern. For that reason I paddle canoes (solo
models) rather than kayaks.
I have considered a light weight (for car topping)
rowing boat in order to have greater speed than in the canoe.
You make the excellent recommendation of
additional floatation - I use white water outfitter's inflatable bags in my
canoes. What do you use in your Gull?
Have you experimented with deep water re-entry to
the Gull and how does it work? Over the side or the end? Enough
freeboard left when swamped to bail out?
Thanks,
Paul
----- Original Message -----From:Harry JamesSent:Thursday, June 11, 2009 10:02 AMSubject:[SPAM]Re: [bolger] S & G Gloucester gullShe is somewhat tippy picks up stability quickly with a load. Rows the
same empty as with 200lbs of camping gear. I built mine because I was
concerned that I was too old for the kayaks and because I like my
comforts camping and you can pretty well carry whatever you want with
the Gull including a hot shower. I figured if I dumped the kayak I would
be done for, I don't think I can reenter one any more. I do believe I
can get back in the Gull and more importantly I can get someone else in
it if they dump their boat. Much harder to dump a gull also compared to
a kayak. Keep the flotation high fore and aft.
HJ
courrielel wrote:
> I have seen many articles describing the gloucester gull dory abilities. Many say that she is tippy but that she rows like a dream.
> I would like to have some feed back about her handling and also have information on how to build her stitch and glue (if possible)
> It will be a first project...Ah also, would flotation tanks make reentry possible ?
> Éric
>
>
>
>
> ------------ --------- --------- ------
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
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> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@ yahoogroups. com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_ lounge-subscribe @yahoogroups. comYahoo! Groups Links
>
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>
>
>
She is somewhat tippy picks up stability quickly with a load. Rows the
same empty as with 200lbs of camping gear. I built mine because I was
concerned that I was too old for the kayaks and because I like my
comforts camping and you can pretty well carry whatever you want with
the Gull including a hot shower. I figured if I dumped the kayak I would
be done for, I don't think I can reenter one any more. I do believe I
can get back in the Gull and more importantly I can get someone else in
it if they dump their boat. Much harder to dump a gull also compared to
a kayak. Keep the flotation high fore and aft.
HJ
courrielel wrote:
same empty as with 200lbs of camping gear. I built mine because I was
concerned that I was too old for the kayaks and because I like my
comforts camping and you can pretty well carry whatever you want with
the Gull including a hot shower. I figured if I dumped the kayak I would
be done for, I don't think I can reenter one any more. I do believe I
can get back in the Gull and more importantly I can get someone else in
it if they dump their boat. Much harder to dump a gull also compared to
a kayak. Keep the flotation high fore and aft.
HJ
courrielel wrote:
> I have seen many articles describing the gloucester gull dory abilities. Many say that she is tippy but that she rows like a dream.
> I would like to have some feed back about her handling and also have information on how to build her stitch and glue (if possible)
> It will be a first project...Ah also, would flotation tanks make reentry possible ?
> Éric
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "courrielel" <courrielel@...> wrote:
>I rowed a Gull for many years and liked her a lot. I might be rowing her still but she was destroyed in a freak accident. If built as designed they row wonderfully and are seaworthy. Read what PCB has to say about them in his book Small Boats. I do not recommend building one stitch & glue; build her like Payson does. The Light Dory Type II is designed with flotation if that is important to you. I doubt you'll ever need it. Be sure to use spruce oars no less that 7' long. Also listen to the Furledsails interview with PCB in which he talks about SpurII v. the Light Dory, and wetted surface issues.
> I have seen many articles describing the gloucester gull dory abilities. Many say that she is tippy but that she rows like a dream.
> I would like to have some feed back about her handling and also have information on how to build her stitch and glue (if possible)
> It will be a first project...Ah also, would flotation tanks make reentry possible ?
> Éric
>
I have seen many articles describing the gloucester gull dory abilities. Many say that she is tippy but that she rows like a dream.
I would like to have some feed back about her handling and also have information on how to build her stitch and glue (if possible)
It will be a first project...Ah also, would flotation tanks make reentry possible ?
Éric
I would like to have some feed back about her handling and also have information on how to build her stitch and glue (if possible)
It will be a first project...Ah also, would flotation tanks make reentry possible ?
Éric