Re: [bolger] Re: small steel hulls

Jim,

Trained professionals also regularly suffer life-threatening or fatal injuries in wood-based manufacturing and construction industries. I think the things you have observed have more to do with the size of the work and the pressures under which the work is done than the fundamental character of woodworking vs metalworking.

I also the think the problems you identify (and I think you're correct in nearly every particular) are properties of boat building in any material and are not fundamentally particular to steel. Building a good boat requires skills, and those skills get more important as the boat gets larger.

-p

On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 5:21 PM, Wilderness Voice<thewildernessvoice@...>wrote:

John
I think you do me a disservice. I do think that inheritently that steel boat building is far more dangerous than woodworking. In addition those injured in the shipyards are often professionals with yrs of experience and knowledge. Steel boat building is not something to be entered into casually and the common tools of boat building are all dangerous. If you read my posts as intended you will see that I have recommended:
1. using existing plans designed for steel\
2. getting training as needed
3. being knowledgeable about using tools properly and to the safety rule

Steel boatbuilding can be done at home, but it takes more study to do it safely, in addition a shoddy boats problems may not show up until it passes to the next owner.
Jim

From:John Freeman <marzlie@...>
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent:Mon, November 30, 2009 11:01:01 AM
Subject:[bolger] Re: small steel hulls

We build with what w e have. This is true for houses and boats also. In the midst of massive forests one would not expect to find houses built of bricks, but rather of the readily available wood. Boats are the same--this is why the Inuit built boats of Walrus skins, and we in the forest covered parts of North America build them of wood.

Steel? Absolutely. The Netherlands, not having huge forests growing on their land reclaimed from the ocean, have long been masters of building boats with steel. And beautiful boats they are. Check outhttp://www.euroship services. nl/english/for pre-cut kits for steel boats ranging from small sailing craft to large luxury yachts.

This is not to say that we in North America should abandon wood as a material of choice, but rather to say that we should not make blanket statements about other techniques, proclaiming them to be not doable, not practical, not aesthetically pleasing, or even, perish the thought, not safe! (Check with anyone who has lost a body part to a table saw about the inherent safety of woodworking! )

John Freeman

--
John and/or Marzlie Freeman
Check us out at--
http://2oldkiters. smugmug.com/

John
I think you do me a disservice. I do think that inheritently that steel boat building is far more dangerous than woodworking. In addition those injured in the shipyards are often professionals with yrs of experience and knowledge. Steel boat building is not something to be entered into casually and the common tools of boat building are all dangerous. If you read my posts as intended you will see that I have recommended:
1. using existing plans designed for steel\
2. getting training as needed
3. being knowledgeable about using tools properly and to the safety rule

Steel boatbuilding can be done at home, but it takes more study to do it safely, in addition a shoddy boats problems may not show up until it passes to the next owner.
Jim

From:John Freeman <marzlie@...>
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent:Mon, November 30, 2009 11:01:01 AM
Subject:[bolger] Re: small steel hulls

We build with what w e have. This is true for houses and boats also. In the midst of massive forests one would not expect to find houses built of bricks, but rather of the readily available wood. Boats are the same--this is why the Inuit built boats of Walrus skins, and we in the forest covered parts of North America build them of wood.

Steel? Absolutely. The Netherlands, not having huge forests growing on their land reclaimed from the ocean, have long been masters of building boats with steel. And beautiful boats they are. Check out http://www.euroship services. nl/english/ for pre-cut kits for steel boats ranging from small sailing craft to large luxury yachts.

This is not to say that we in North America should abandon wood as a material of choice, but rather to say that we should not make blanket statements about other techniques, proclaiming them to be not doable, not practical, not aesthetically pleasing, or even, perish the thought, not safe! (Check with anyone who has lost a body part to a table saw about the inherent safety of woodworking! )

John Freeman

--
John and/or Marzlie Freeman
Check us out at--
http://2oldkiters. smugmug.com/

We build with what we have. This is true for houses and boats also. In the midst of massive forests one would not expect to find houses built of bricks, but rather of the readily available wood. Boats are the same--this is why the Inuit built boats of Walrus skins, and we in the forest covered parts of North America build them of wood.

Steel? Absolutely. The Netherlands, not having huge forests growing on their land reclaimed from the ocean, have long been masters of building boats with steel. And beautiful boats they are. Check outhttp://www.euroshipservices.nl/english/for pre-cut kits for steel boats ranging from small sailing craft to large luxury yachts.

This is not to say that we in North America should abandon wood as a material of choice, but rather to say that we should not make blanket statements about other techniques, proclaiming them to be not doable, not practical, not aesthetically pleasing, or even, perish the thought, not safe! (Check with anyone who has lost a body part to a table saw about the inherent safety of woodworking!)

John Freeman

--
John and/or Marzlie Freeman
Check us out at--
http://2oldkiters.smugmug.com/

As a footnote, during my first trip to the Netherlands by double-kayak I saw a bunch of 16-20-foot double-chine steel boats, some rigged for rowing - and being rowed - and some with small outboards.

There seems to be a market for these - and I reckon a need for aspiring professional steel-boat builders to demonstrate capacity to weld thin gauge steel, clean to designed shape, water-tight welds, and durable finish in fresh-to-brackish waters at least.

Typically looked like longish AURAY punts with good bow-overhang and often small bow-transom, sometimes tumblehome above-waterline knuckle. I don't think I saw them rigged for sailing. But why not...with 'live'-ballast on a heavier boat.

You can see variations of the type by itself upriver on the Rhine and as a utility launch on the back of the standard 2000-tons Inland-Freighters. Some old ones evewn with elaborately shaped but chunky 'free-flow' shapes.
Susanne Altenburger, PB&F

I hired a travel lift twice to turn ROGUE (26'x7.5' x 5'depth of hull) upside down and right side up again to make glassing the hull easier. I wrapped a cargo strap several times around the hull and had the operator raise ROGUE as high as possible. I then tied one end of the strap off to the top of the travel lift. When the operator lowered ROGUE the strap rolled ROGUE right over. Because of stretch it took raising and lowering twice to completely turn ROGUE over.

Same principle can be used on smaller boats with a comealong or any other device to provide the lift. and rolling action. Rig straps to hold the boat off the ground, wrap a strap around the hull several times. hook a comealong to one end and tug. have a second comealong to hook on and do some more pulling because the length of travel of a comealong will not be enough to turn a boat. hook the second on before releasing tension on the first so no gain is lost.
Eric

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "captreed@..." <captreed@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Tom,
>
> Interesting method. Do I understand it? Take the boat up a ways and then the double loop allows you to rotate since the end of the lifting has a block on it.
>
> Reed
>

Hi Tom,

Interesting method. Do I understand it? Take the boat up a ways and then the double loop allows you to rotate since the end of the lifting has a block on it.

Reed

I saw this double-loop method a long time ago, somewhere on the web. I used it to flip my 20' X 6', over 600 lb. hull three times. Worked like a charm. The loops have to be tight, not loose as drawn. Also, make sure there is room enough for the hull to hang from one side. It can be done alone, but it is easier with one person guiding the hull, while another moves the vehicle doing the lift.

I don't know how to attach a diagram; so, I posted in photos, in the "Becky Thatcher modification" folder.

Tom Andrews