Re: Lapstrake or Steel Long Micro ?

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Giuliano Girometta <ggboat1@...> wrote:
>
> There are good lifeboats and bad lifeboats so we can not put all in one bundle.
> Till the 50ties all the lifeboats were very well made and some with gorgeous shapes and after the ships were scraped they made even top winner sailboats.
> Then in the early 60ties they started the construction of aluminum lifeboats that were such as floating bathtubs.
> Then with the event of the fiberglass, lifeboats started again to have more gracious shapes and being more seaworthy.Â
> I see some lifeboats being barely making two or three Knots at full power while other pushing 9 Knots with the same small Lister Diesel.
> Small lifeboats (about 30 persons) are normally of a good shape, while the large ones that were installed on the big ocean liners and capable to carry a large amount of people and that were stacked on double on the davits were normally shaped like ugly barges.Â

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Peter McCorison <k2spr@...> wrote:
>
> But lifeboats are designed to float until rescue eventuates, not to go
> anywhere. There are a couple of such conversions here in the San Juan
> Islands. They are slow, take lots of power, and drag the whole ocean
> after them.
>
> The shapes are just not designed for travel.
>
> - Cheers -
> Peter McCorison
> Trying to keep from getting blown away in the San Juan Islands.
>
> ben_2_go wrote:
> > I have seen steel life boats.There's a guy that posts on DW that owned one and converted it into a trawler type cruiser.It was the General Brock.
> >
> >http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/02/articles/browne/index.htm
> >
> >http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/03/r/columns/browne/08/index.htm
> >
> > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Wilderness Voice <thewildernessvoice@> wrote:
> >> Lifeboats are designed for one thing, that is to float. I have never seen a steel lifeboat float, but in the shipyds we would have slapped together boats for the purpose of getting around ships and working. If this is a pleasure boat and meant to perform. and be fun you will be better off with lapstrake than trying to make a small boat out of steel. There are good reasons small boats arn't made out of steel for anything but work in shipyrds
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ________________________________
> >> From: Christopher C. Wetherill <wetherillc@>
> >> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> >> Sent: Fri, November 20, 2009 6:23:12 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Lapstrake or Steel Long Micro ?
> >>
> >>
> >> There are also a myriad of steel lifeboats on
> >> ships.
> >>
> >> One serious practical limitation is that with steel or aluminum
> >> construction, one must include sealed void space for flotation. This
> >> is not available for stowage or other use. It detracts seriously from
> >> the utility of a small hull.
> >>
> >> V/R
> >> Chris
> >>
> >> Gene Tehansky wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Col Hassler is made in steel. I think thats the name.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Gene T.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 20 Nov, 2009, at 4:39 AM, robertsmme wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi,
> >>>>>> Phil designed a steel small boat to cross the Atlantic in - I think the
> >>>> design is called the OSTAR. I can not find it on the web, but I know it
> >>>> had interesting things like a cycle to generate electricity.
> >>>>
> >>>>>> It had a stepped hull so you could walk the length of the boat without
> >>>> bending.
> >>>>
> >>>>>> Martin
> >>>>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
> > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

> I have seen steel life boats.There's a guy that posts on DW that owned one and converted it into a trawler type cruiser.It was the General Brock.
>
>http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/02/articles/browne/index.htm
>
>http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/03/r/columns/browne/08/index.htm
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Wilderness Voice <thewildernessvoice@...> wrote:
>> Lifeboats are designed for one thing, that is to float. I have never seen a steel lifeboat float, but in the shipyds we would have slapped together boats for the purpose of getting around ships and working. If this is a pleasure boat and meant to perform. and be fun you will be better off with lapstrake than trying to make a small boat out of steel. There are good reasons small boats arn't made out of steel for anything but work in shipyrds
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Christopher C. Wetherill <wetherillc@...>
>> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
>> Sent: Fri, November 20, 2009 6:23:12 AM
>> Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Lapstrake or Steel Long Micro ?
>>
>>
>> There are also a myriad of steel lifeboats on
>> ships.
>>
>> One serious practical limitation is that with steel or aluminum
>> construction, one must include sealed void space for flotation. This
>> is not available for stowage or other use. It detracts seriously from
>> the utility of a small hull.
>>
>> V/R
>> Chris
>>
>> Gene Tehansky wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Col Hassler is made in steel. I think thats the name.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Gene T.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 20 Nov, 2009, at 4:39 AM, robertsmme wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>>>> Phil designed a steel small boat to cross the Atlantic in - I think the
>>>> design is called the OSTAR. I can not find it on the web, but I know it
>>>> had interesting things like a cycle to generate electricity.
>>>>
>>>>>> It had a stepped hull so you could walk the length of the boat without
>>>> bending.
>>>>
>>>>>> Martin
>>>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Wilderness Voice <thewildernessvoice@...> wrote:
>
> Lifeboats are designed for one thing, that is to float. I have never seen a steel lifeboat float, but in the shipyds we would have slapped together boats for the purpose of getting around ships and working. If this is a pleasure boat and meant to perform. and be fun you will be better off with lapstrake than trying to make a small boat out of steel. There are good reasons small boats arn't made out of steel for anything but work in shipyrds
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Christopher C. Wetherill <wetherillc@...>
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Fri, November 20, 2009 6:23:12 AM
> Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Lapstrake or Steel Long Micro ?
>
>
> There are also a myriad of steel lifeboats on
> ships.
>
> One serious practical limitation is that with steel or aluminum
> construction, one must include sealed void space for flotation. This
> is not available for stowage or other use. It detracts seriously from
> the utility of a small hull.
>
> V/R
> Chris
>
> Gene Tehansky wrote:
> >
> >
> >Col Hassler is made in steel. I think thats the name.
> >
> >
> >
> >Gene T.
> >
> >
> >On 20 Nov, 2009, at 4:39 AM, robertsmme wrote:
> >
> >Hi,
> >>>>Phil designed a steel small boat to cross the Atlantic in - I think the
> >>design is called the OSTAR. I can not find it on the web, but I know it
> >>had interesting things like a cycle to generate electricity.
> >>
> >>>>It had a stepped hull so you could walk the length of the boat without
> >>bending.
> >>
> >>>>Martin
> >>
> >>
>

Col Hassler is made in steel. I think thats the name.

Gene T.

On 20 Nov, 2009, at 4:39 AM, robertsmme wrote:

Hi,
Phil designed a steel small boat to cross the Atlantic in - I think the design is called the OSTAR. I can not find it on the web, but I know it had interesting things like a cycle to generate electricity.

It had a stepped hull so you could walk the length of the boat without bending.

Martin

>
> Walter wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com<mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > Douglas Pollard <dougpol1@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Chebaco is a well designed boat for plywood and the fact that it cannot
> > > be formed into compound curves. If you want to build from lapstrake
> > > there are many designes with much finer shapes that can be built that
> > > way. Bolger has some of those designs though many are in his older
> > work.
> > > His later work is no better than the older designs except that the new
> > > stuff is designed for ease of construction in plywood. That ease of
> > > construction is gone when you build from lap planking or strip planking
> > > so why not build the finer hull. Its no harder if you are strip
> > > building. If you are going to strip plank build one of the really
> > > beautiful and sea kindly designs that are available. The plywood
> > designs
> > > for easy construction and as such are compromises in shape. Build the
> > > perfect shape instead. Doug
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Chebacco was originally designed for cold molded construction- see
> > "Boats with an Open Mind ", p.223. Then plywood, then lapstrake. Boats
> > built using all three construction methods have been sailed together,
> > with no real difference noted between them . So the "penalty" of
> > limited shape for sheet plywood construction is non-existent, at least
> > for this design. Cold molded construction is an excellent way to use
> > wood of less than prime marine quality,as it is encapsulated in epoxy.
> > If you can get the epoxy in Peru, and get the available wood sawed
> > into veneers, this might be a good way to go.
> >
> >
> Walter, I have to disagree. Plywood can make a really fine boat but
> unless you get into things like tortured shapes, they are not perfect. A
> boat built of molded plywood if designed to take advantage of the
> material can be a much finer shaped boat. Speed is not the only measure
> of a fine boat there is, sea kindliness ease of handling.
> Bolger designed an aluminum boat for me and he lamented the fact that we
> could bend only very limited compound curves into the hull. In his words
> she would be a faster boat if we could develop more roundness in her
> bottom astern. If we could round her bottom more in her bows she would
> have a finer entry. That is what P.Bolger thought. Maybe he changed his
> mind later???
> If the cold molded hull was made to the best that can be done with the
> material she would be a far better boat than a plywood one. IF not, it
> is only because full advantage of the material was not taken. A good
> cold molded boat is a different boat than a plywood one in shape, even
> if by the same name. After saying this I really like the look and feel
> of a hard chine boat. The softly rounded hull to my eye lacks the
> character of a gently curving chine and sheer to match of a planked hull
> and is often copied in most plywood hulls.
> In my opinion it's not the material that matters but the shape than can
> be generated in it. Doug
>

> I live in Iquitos, Peru a few miles from the Amazon River and I´m interested in building a Long Micro.
>
> The plywood available here is not suitable for boat construction. It separate easily and it is expensive.
>
> That leaves lapstrake or a steel hull. Wood and steel are both cheap.
>
> What would the increased weight do to the performance of a Micro or Long Micro?
>
> Does anyone know of any Micros or Long Micros that have been built with a lapstrake or steel hull?
>
> Thanks
>
> tom
>

>
>
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com<mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com>,
> Douglas Pollard <dougpol1@...> wrote:
> >
> > Chebaco is a well designed boat for plywood and the fact that it cannot
> > be formed into compound curves. If you want to build from lapstrake
> > there are many designes with much finer shapes that can be built that
> > way. Bolger has some of those designs though many are in his older
> work.
> > His later work is no better than the older designs except that the new
> > stuff is designed for ease of construction in plywood. That ease of
> > construction is gone when you build from lap planking or strip planking
> > so why not build the finer hull. Its no harder if you are strip
> > building. If you are going to strip plank build one of the really
> > beautiful and sea kindly designs that are available. The plywood
> designs
> > for easy construction and as such are compromises in shape. Build the
> > perfect shape instead. Doug
> >
> >
>
> Chebacco was originally designed for cold molded construction- see
> "Boats with an Open Mind ", p.223. Then plywood, then lapstrake. Boats
> built using all three construction methods have been sailed together,
> with no real difference noted between them . So the "penalty" of
> limited shape for sheet plywood construction is non-existent, at least
> for this design. Cold molded construction is an excellent way to use
> wood of less than prime marine quality,as it is encapsulated in epoxy.
> If you can get the epoxy in Peru, and get the available wood sawed
> into veneers, this might be a good way to go.
>
>

>
> Chebaco is a well designed boat for plywood and the fact that it cannot
> be formed into compound curves. If you want to build from lapstrake
> there are many designes with much finer shapes that can be built that
> way. Bolger has some of those designs though many are in his older work.
> His later work is no better than the older designs except that the new
> stuff is designed for ease of construction in plywood. That ease of
> construction is gone when you build from lap planking or strip planking
> so why not build the finer hull. Its no harder if you are strip
> building. If you are going to strip plank build one of the really
> beautiful and sea kindly designs that are available. The plywood designs
> for easy construction and as such are compromises in shape. Build the
> perfect shape instead. Doug
>
>

>
> > That leaves lapstrake or a steel hull.
> > Wood and steel are both cheap.
>
> I would discourage you from thinking about a steel hull. By the time
> it had enough internal bracing that it stay in shape, it would be far
> too heavy. Boats less than about 50 feet can be built from steel, but
> only if the heavy construction is planned from the beginning of the
> design.
>
> On the other hand, lapstrake is a very good alternative, but I think
> it would work better for a boat with a round shape rather than the
> boxy shape of Long Micro. You would have to ask someone more
> experienced that me if you do build LM in lapstrake.
>
> Be aware that there are two categories of lapstrake. The traditional
> one uses some kind of nail or rivet to fasten the laps. The modern one
> uses epoxy glue. Since the epoxy makes a stiffer boat, the internal
> framing is reduced a little, so if the designer calls for glued laps,
> it's best to stick to it. If the designer calls for rivets or clench
> nails, you can glue if you want to.
>
> You might look into strip construction, too.
>
> Mr. Bolger designed the Chebacco and the 26' big Chebacco for
> lapstrake construction. The bigger boat has accommodations similar to
> Long Micro. They both use a cat-yawl rig. These boats both use plywood
> for frames, seats, etc. I don't know if they would work for you or not.
>
> In fact, all most all modern designs use some plywood. I'm sure there
> are ways for you to work around that, but it may be frustrating.
>
> Peter
>
>

> That leaves lapstrake or a steel hull.
> Wood and steel are both cheap.

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <hallman@...> wrote:
>
> >
> > I live in Iquitos, Peru a few miles from the Amazon River and I´m
interested in building...
>
>
> I imagine that there is some nice wood there suitable for
> boatbuilding. I am curious what types of wood to boat builders use.
> Also, what is the Amazon River like in Peru, current speed, depth and
> the prevailing wind, etc.. And also, I am curious what kind of boats
> were traditionally used in that region, for fishing? or for
> transportation?
>
> Is there a reason that you are choosing a sailboat?
>
> I see that the flag of Iquitos has, could it be, pictures of boats on
it?
>
>http://peru-facts.co.uk/Images/iquitos%20flag.jpg
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iquitos
>
>http://images.google.com/images?q=Iquitos%20boat
>

>
> I live in Iquitos, Peru a few miles from the Amazon River and I´m interested in building...