Re: [bolger] Dinghy weights?
I can't remembering weighing either of them, but the Tortoise is about
half the weight of the Cartoon 5. The Tortoise can be lifted with one
arm and rested on one shoulder. I rigged up a loose "handle" (a foot
long 1 inch stick on two ropes tied to holes in the gunnel) so the
length of my arm is just correct to share the weight with my shoulder.
Like that, you can carry the boat quite a distance.
The Cartoon 5 lift involves turning it over, lifting one end, and
positioning your body under the center of the boat and then carrying
the weight of the boat by resting the center seat across your
shoulders. Carried like that I have portaged 1/4 mile without grief.
I cartop both of them single handed.
In both cases, it is much harder to carry these boats when the wind is gusty.
half the weight of the Cartoon 5. The Tortoise can be lifted with one
arm and rested on one shoulder. I rigged up a loose "handle" (a foot
long 1 inch stick on two ropes tied to holes in the gunnel) so the
length of my arm is just correct to share the weight with my shoulder.
Like that, you can carry the boat quite a distance.
The Cartoon 5 lift involves turning it over, lifting one end, and
positioning your body under the center of the boat and then carrying
the weight of the boat by resting the center seat across your
shoulders. Carried like that I have portaged 1/4 mile without grief.
I cartop both of them single handed.
In both cases, it is much harder to carry these boats when the wind is gusty.
On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 1:26 PM, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Bruce
>
> Is the Toroise lighter than the Cartoon 5? and if so by how much?
>
> HJ
Bruce
Is the Toroise lighter than the Cartoon 5? and if so by how much?
HJ
Is the Toroise lighter than the Cartoon 5? and if so by how much?
HJ
>
Another option is Michalak's Smoar - 12' version of Roar2.
http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/roar2/index.htm
("Carol Arlene" in the photo.)
The reason I like this design is that it is very light-weight if you
have to carry it up to the cabin if security might be an issue. I am
looking at making it from light marine grade plywood or even
underpayment if encapsulated. Should bring it down to 50 lb or less.
I like it also as it has a narrow bottom - easy to row - much like a
canoe only wider, and a nice seat can be installed in the stern for a
passenger. I think my canoe cart I purchased from MEC might also work
with this design.
Nels
http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/roar2/index.htm
("Carol Arlene" in the photo.)
The reason I like this design is that it is very light-weight if you
have to carry it up to the cabin if security might be an issue. I am
looking at making it from light marine grade plywood or even
underpayment if encapsulated. Should bring it down to 50 lb or less.
I like it also as it has a narrow bottom - easy to row - much like a
canoe only wider, and a nice seat can be installed in the stern for a
passenger. I think my canoe cart I purchased from MEC might also work
with this design.
Nels
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Myles J. Swift" <mswift@...> wrote:
>
> Murray,
>
>
>
> If you want a cheap and fast build in a rowboat you might like June
Bug. I
> have a spot on a lake and row June Bug in the morning calm myself. It
rows
> quite well with one person. My wife and I sometimes row together for
> exercise. The plus is that of all the easily handled boats, it has the
most
> initial stability. It is under 100 pounds and with the flat bottom is
easy
> to pull up onto a dock. Bolger built it to replace his own worn out
light
> dory because he wanted something to row back and forth to his float
that was
> stable enough to set moorings and move some weight, rated for near
1000
> pounds. Row it with short strong strokes and it moves out.
>
>
>
> MylesJ
>
Murray,
If you want a cheap and fast build in a rowboat you might like June Bug. I have a spot on a lake and row June Bug in the morning calm myself. It rows quite well with one person. My wife and I sometimes row together for exercise. The plus is that of all the easily handled boats, it has the most initial stability. It is under 100 pounds and with the flat bottom is easy to pull up onto a dock. Bolger built it to replace his own worn out light dory because he wanted something to row back and forth to his float that was stable enough to set moorings and move some weight, rated for near 1000 pounds. Row it with short strong strokes and it moves out.
MylesJ
I beleive it was Jim Michalak's second attempt at boatbuilding after a Teal back in 1986. He was put off by the effort (time??) and cost involved in the jig construction for a one off boat. He thought he could use the sides expansions and mold dimensions for the Gull as given in Payson's "Go Build Your Own Boat" and stitch one together. Payson agreed. It worked, and Michalak thought afterwards that the method might work for non-instants like Bolger's Thomaston Galley and many of Chapelle's designs. He also thought that the method might also be able to incorporate frames, chine-logs, etc, and not just be used for stitch and tape adaptations.
Amongst the good stuff on Chuck Merrell's site is his "Private Postings" page where you'll find PDFs of 9 issues and an index of "Instant Boatbuilder" to download and save. You'll find Michalak's "epistle" on building the Light Dory in an instant in Issue #7 at page 1http://www.boatdesign.com/postings/pages/instantbb.htm
I note that for his much later plan offering of a cut down stitch-and-tape adaptation of the Bolger Light Dory that Michalak insists on the necessity of many molds to hold the sides shape. Their removal is about the last major step in the construction sequence outlined. The numerous molds are still rather cheaper and less involved I think than the jig options given by Payson for the Light Dory VI. I wonder if the outside chine-logged Light Dory V double-ender, the one Bolger thought the best performer, might go together much easier and more cheaply still if done the Michalak way?
Graeme
Amongst the good stuff on Chuck Merrell's site is his "Private Postings" page where you'll find PDFs of 9 issues and an index of "Instant Boatbuilder" to download and save. You'll find Michalak's "epistle" on building the Light Dory in an instant in Issue #7 at page 1http://www.boatdesign.com/postings/pages/instantbb.htm
I note that for his much later plan offering of a cut down stitch-and-tape adaptation of the Bolger Light Dory that Michalak insists on the necessity of many molds to hold the sides shape. Their removal is about the last major step in the construction sequence outlined. The numerous molds are still rather cheaper and less involved I think than the jig options given by Payson for the Light Dory VI. I wonder if the outside chine-logged Light Dory V double-ender, the one Bolger thought the best performer, might go together much easier and more cheaply still if done the Michalak way?
Graeme
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "adventures_in_astrophotography" <jon@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Murry,
>
> > I am wondering if anybody on here has built the Gloucester Light Dory using stitch and glue rather than chine logs?
> >
> > I am looking at the Gloucester LIght Dory and Sam Devlin's Oarling dory as possibilities for my next boat. Does anybody have experience with both designs and any advice to share?
>
> I built the Long Light Dory using stitch and glue. This boat is a 19'-6" version of the GLD. It's no trouble to build that way - basically just two long taped fillets on the inside. The design was developed for stitch & glue from the start.
>
> The big difference, if I'm not mistaken, is that the original was not intended for "instant" style construction, where the panel shapes are predefined and the location of frames or molds are indicated on the panel layouts. As such, you have to set the molds on a jig or ladder frame and spile or otherwise take the panel shapes from the setup. At this point a chine log starts to make things easier because it defines the bottom edge of the side panels. You could spring a batten to accomplish the same result if you really want to use S&G, but you'll have to get the bottom fitted and somehow attached to the sides before you can flip it over and off the jig to start taping the inside joints.
>
> It might be worth emailing Payson to see if he's come up with predefined panels for the GLD. He did it for another older non-instant Bolger design, Sea Hawk.
>
> Jon Kolb
> www.kolbsadventures.com
>
"That would appear to be
a little more straightforward than having to build the molds and a ladder jig."
You probably don't have to build the full ladder jig, since you can insert the molds and use the side as the means of fairing up the alignement of the moldsat least longy, then just use some 2x2 to eyeball for twist, or use a level. Once you ahve it like you want it start putting on the bottom, recheck, and then tack weld the bottom with some epoxy.
S&G is a not necesarilly less work, since one has to loft the panel for the bottom, not easier than triming to shape. You have all the holes to mark and drill; you need to make up the wires or ties, drill holes insert, adjust, possibly prep edges, and so on... S&G is faster than lofting and building big frames etc... but not necesarilly faster than tacking stuff together. I could have built the frames by now... I never used the ladder though I have several strongbacks from othe projects, I just started putting it together from the parts.
I really like the way the GLD rows, very comforting in the ocean. It is tippy because of the waterplane vs the flare. So great to be in, but not so good to lean over the edge or board in some circumstances. It is pretty heavy. I likied rowing it with one passenger, and probably would do better with two, not too heavy ones. For what you are talking about Redmond.s whisp is great. It might look more complex to build but I have seen them built with all the laps done on a flat table, then just bent in. I have also seen them done with just ply sides.
a little more straightforward than having to build the molds and a ladder jig."
You probably don't have to build the full ladder jig, since you can insert the molds and use the side as the means of fairing up the alignement of the moldsat least longy, then just use some 2x2 to eyeball for twist, or use a level. Once you ahve it like you want it start putting on the bottom, recheck, and then tack weld the bottom with some epoxy.
S&G is a not necesarilly less work, since one has to loft the panel for the bottom, not easier than triming to shape. You have all the holes to mark and drill; you need to make up the wires or ties, drill holes insert, adjust, possibly prep edges, and so on... S&G is faster than lofting and building big frames etc... but not necesarilly faster than tacking stuff together. I could have built the frames by now... I never used the ladder though I have several strongbacks from othe projects, I just started putting it together from the parts.
I really like the way the GLD rows, very comforting in the ocean. It is tippy because of the waterplane vs the flare. So great to be in, but not so good to lean over the edge or board in some circumstances. It is pretty heavy. I likied rowing it with one passenger, and probably would do better with two, not too heavy ones. For what you are talking about Redmond.s whisp is great. It might look more complex to build but I have seen them built with all the laps done on a flat table, then just bent in. I have also seen them done with just ply sides.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Murray" <ugoigotoo@...> wrote:
>
> I reread the part about chine options in Dynamite's booklet again today and he suggests fastening the bottom to the hull while on the molds. He didn't think it would be too difficult as you can securely fasten it to the stem and transom and there isn't much curve to the bottom. Then, He suggests sanding off the joint, rounding it and covering the bottom with fiberglass. After that is done it is possible to remove the hull from the molds, flip it over and fillet and glass the interior hull/bottom joints. So, like you say it's not really a stitch and glue as this method would depend on using the molds to form the hull as Harry suggests.
>
> As has also been mentioned, it may be worth a call to Dynamite to see if he can shed any light on building it as a straight-up s&g boat. That would appear to be a little more straightforward than having to build the molds and a ladder jig.
>
> I appreciate everybody sharing their opinions with me. Thank-you very much
>
> Now, maybe I should ask if this boat would be suitable for what I want to use it for....
>
> We have a cabin at a small lake 90 minutes from Saskatoon SK. I am always up early at the lake and would like a rowboat to get out on the water while most people are sleeping. I have a Michalak Ladybug that I built in 2008 but it isn't a rowboat and there is generally no wind in the morning so I can't take it for a sail. I think I got out for early morning sails twice last summer. So, I want a rowboat that is light and easy to launch and retrieve from the water, will row well and quietly and allow me to enjoy the lake before the daily onslaught of powerboats. I may occasionally have a passenger or two.
>
> Is the GLD a good boat for my intended use?
>
> The Devlin boat is longer. Sam says it is faster. It has the option of installing a sliding seat if I want to really get into rowing. Does anybody have experience with the Oarling and how it would compare to the GLD for this usage?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Murray
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "proaconstrictor" <proaconstrictor@> wrote:
> >
> > Eliminating chine logs doesn't make it stitch and glue, it makes it a boat with epoxy/liquid joinery. I have done that with most of my Bolgers. I also eliminate the draggy (I suppose, never built one) outside chine arrangement. The outside chine is there to make the boat easier to clean, but with a tapped interior joint it amounts to the same thing. Come to think of it I did once row a Payson built GLD, and it rowed fine, with I presume the outside chine.
> >
> > One thing is that his three piece boats, the boxes and dories depend on the chine to fully pop out the sides, they may be a little limp without the chine logs there. On the octagonal section ones like Nymph the 45 degree angles will pop out nicely.
> >
> > What I do when building one of the chine log boats, I I leave it in, then I nail the bottom to it, then when I flip the boat, I bog the inside joint with a 1.5" radius filleting knife made out of some 1/4" plywood. I then lay some tape in there, and smooth it out into the epoxy with my gloved hand and wet the tape out with a disposible blush (keep it in a can with an inch of acetone in the bottom and a lid. One can reuse the same brush all summer, and no cleaning, except for working excess glue out before it goes into the bath).
> >
> > Then just flip the boat upside down, use a jigsaw, or router with a bearing guide, or a grinder, etc... to remove the chine (no permanent screws were used to mount it). I round over the external chine with the grinder, until some of the epoxy fillet from the inside peaks through. Keep the lines of ply and fillet nice and smooth, possibly fair with hand plane or long board. Fill any holes with bog, and imdediately lay tape over the little bits and peices of bog (1-3 cabosil to q-cell epoxy putty). Wet out some more tape. The pro finish is to keep laying down tape in declining layers like 6", 4", etc... The narrow stuff goes on last. When that kicks off you take a scraper and scrape down the selvage edge (raised edges of tape). Qucik grind or if you don't want fiber glass dust in the air some drywall liek fairing with several trouled on layers of 410. Topcoat with epoxy and paint.
> >
> > This is sorta tack and tape, however Payson's boats were scantled for use of polyester resin. With epoxy one can leave out the extra bulkheads/ring frames, and finish the interior, as if the boat was made of strip planing etc... That said, some of the smaller boats using longi seats like Nymph, and EP ned the mid bulkhead regardless.
> >
> > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Murray" <ugoigotoo@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I am wondering if anybody on here has built the Gloucester Light Dory using stitch and glue rather than chine logs?
> > >
> > > I am looking at the Gloucester LIght Dory and Sam Devlin's Oarling dory as possibilities for my next boat. Does anybody have experience with both designs and any advice to share?
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > >
> > > Murray Stevens
> > > Saskatoon SK Canada
> > >
> >
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Murray" <ugoigotoo@...> wrote:
Dave
> Dave,Sure! pm me atalias1719@...and I'll send you the files.
> Do you have plans/instructions for Ruth available?
Dave
Dave,
Do you have plans/instructions for Ruth available? Building something that good looking so fast for a pretty small expenditure that would serve my purposes is pretty appealing...it also wouldn't burn up as much goodwill with the wife if ya know what I mean ;-)
Murray
Do you have plans/instructions for Ruth available? Building something that good looking so fast for a pretty small expenditure that would serve my purposes is pretty appealing...it also wouldn't burn up as much goodwill with the wife if ya know what I mean ;-)
Murray
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Gentry" <alias1719@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Thanks! It's tough to go wrong with SOF . . . I built RUTH (http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=99286)in a week and a half, for something like $200 or less. You can build SOF kayaks in this non-traditional style, too - check out Tom Yost's website: www.yostwerks.com for many free designs and building instructions. Note that any of his aluminum framed folders can be built (cheaper,faster and lighter) as wood framed non-folders - and, also, that there are many skinning options. There are kids kayaks, too!
>
> I've got a "to build" list like yours - but longer, much longer!
>
> Back to rowboats - Personally, of the two you talk about, I'd go with the GLD over the Oarling, but only because I like the looks better - and I have a sentimental spot for Mr. Bolger.
>
> It's all fun, in any case!
> Dave Gentry
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Murray" <ugoigotoo@> wrote:
> >
> > Dave,
> >
> > Ruth is one beautiful boat! Now I'm even more undecided...if that's possible. ;-)
> >
> > Boats to Build List (These are my favourite designs right now and boats I think about building in my daydream moments)
> >
> > 1 - GLD/Oarling - to have a rowboat for those quiet times at the lake.
> > 2 - SOF Greenland style kayak (I've been looking at Robert Morris and Chris Cunningham's books for years)
> > 3 - Chris Ostlind Cabrillo design - small sailboat for kids. If Chris finalizes the plans soon I'll build one of these for my boys before anything else.
>
Thanks! It's tough to go wrong with SOF . . . I built RUTH (http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=99286)in a week and a half, for something like $200 or less. You can build SOF kayaks in this non-traditional style, too - check out Tom Yost's website: www.yostwerks.com for many free designs and building instructions. Note that any of his aluminum framed folders can be built (cheaper,faster and lighter) as wood framed non-folders - and, also, that there are many skinning options. There are kids kayaks, too!
I've got a "to build" list like yours - but longer, much longer!
Back to rowboats - Personally, of the two you talk about, I'd go with the GLD over the Oarling, but only because I like the looks better - and I have a sentimental spot for Mr. Bolger.
It's all fun, in any case!
Dave Gentry
I've got a "to build" list like yours - but longer, much longer!
Back to rowboats - Personally, of the two you talk about, I'd go with the GLD over the Oarling, but only because I like the looks better - and I have a sentimental spot for Mr. Bolger.
It's all fun, in any case!
Dave Gentry
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Murray" <ugoigotoo@...> wrote:
>
> Dave,
>
> Ruth is one beautiful boat! Now I'm even more undecided...if that's possible. ;-)
>
> Boats to Build List (These are my favourite designs right now and boats I think about building in my daydream moments)
>
> 1 - GLD/Oarling - to have a rowboat for those quiet times at the lake.
> 2 - SOF Greenland style kayak (I've been looking at Robert Morris and Chris Cunningham's books for years)
> 3 - Chris Ostlind Cabrillo design - small sailboat for kids. If Chris finalizes the plans soon I'll build one of these for my boys before anything else.
Dave,
Ruth is one beautiful boat! Now I'm even more undecided...if that's possible. ;-)
Boats to Build List (These are my favourite designs right now and boats I think about building in my daydream moments)
1 - GLD/Oarling - to have a rowboat for those quiet times at the lake.
2 - SOF Greenland style kayak (I've been looking at Robert Morris and Chris Cunningham's books for years)
3 - Chris Ostlind Cabrillo design - small sailboat for kids. If Chris finalizes the plans soon I'll build one of these for my boys before anything else.
4 - Wa'apa Polynesian style outrigger canoe by Gary Dierking
5 - Bolger Micro or similar small cabin sailboat to go sail/camping for a few days at a time.
So many boats..so little time....and limited good will with SWMBO.
Cheers and thanks to all for all the responses,
Murray
Ruth is one beautiful boat! Now I'm even more undecided...if that's possible. ;-)
Boats to Build List (These are my favourite designs right now and boats I think about building in my daydream moments)
1 - GLD/Oarling - to have a rowboat for those quiet times at the lake.
2 - SOF Greenland style kayak (I've been looking at Robert Morris and Chris Cunningham's books for years)
3 - Chris Ostlind Cabrillo design - small sailboat for kids. If Chris finalizes the plans soon I'll build one of these for my boys before anything else.
4 - Wa'apa Polynesian style outrigger canoe by Gary Dierking
5 - Bolger Micro or similar small cabin sailboat to go sail/camping for a few days at a time.
So many boats..so little time....and limited good will with SWMBO.
Cheers and thanks to all for all the responses,
Murray
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Gentry" <alias1719@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Murray" <ugoigotoo@> wrote:
> > Now, maybe I should ask if this boat would be suitable for what I want to use it for...I want a rowboat that is light and easy to launch and retrieve from the water, will row well and quietly and allow me to enjoy the lake before the daily onslaught of powerboats. I may occasionally have a passenger or two.
> > Is the GLD a good boat for my intended use?
>
> The GLD is a fine boat for your intended use, though rowing with passengers not its best suit (most boats go better with no passengers, though!). As per the scantlings suggested, it's too heavy for my taste, but can be built with 1/4" ply, instead of 3/8".
> The GLD is pretty tippy, too - until you sit down in it. Rows great, though!
>
> But, there are many, many rowboat options that would fit your needs, including Bolger's SweetPea, Crystal, the "ultralight rowing boat for homebuilders" and Spur II.
> Michalak has a number of rowing only designs, as well, of course.
>
> If you want exercise in smooth water, shell might be your answer - though no passengers. Check out CLC's Oxford shell.
>
> For another, better(IMO), option, skin-on-frame is definitely my fav for lightweight boats. Check out the late Platt Monfort's designs at www.gaboats.com, or even my own much simpler to build rowing wherry, RUTH:http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=99286
>
> Can't help you with the Devlin Oarling, except to say that I met a woman who rowed one from Alaska to Seattle. Ought to be capable enough for your lake, even with some powerboat chop!
>
> Good luck!
> Dave Gentry
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Murray" <ugoigotoo@...> wrote:
The GLD is pretty tippy, too - until you sit down in it. Rows great, though!
But, there are many, many rowboat options that would fit your needs, including Bolger's SweetPea, Crystal, the "ultralight rowing boat for homebuilders" and Spur II.
Michalak has a number of rowing only designs, as well, of course.
If you want exercise in smooth water, shell might be your answer - though no passengers. Check out CLC's Oxford shell.
For another, better(IMO), option, skin-on-frame is definitely my fav for lightweight boats. Check out the late Platt Monfort's designs at www.gaboats.com, or even my own much simpler to build rowing wherry, RUTH:http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=99286
Can't help you with the Devlin Oarling, except to say that I met a woman who rowed one from Alaska to Seattle. Ought to be capable enough for your lake, even with some powerboat chop!
Good luck!
Dave Gentry
> Now, maybe I should ask if this boat would be suitable for what I want to use it for...I want a rowboat that is light and easy to launch and retrieve from the water, will row well and quietly and allow me to enjoy the lake before the daily onslaught of powerboats. I may occasionally have a passenger or two.The GLD is a fine boat for your intended use, though rowing with passengers not its best suit (most boats go better with no passengers, though!). As per the scantlings suggested, it's too heavy for my taste, but can be built with 1/4" ply, instead of 3/8".
> Is the GLD a good boat for my intended use?
The GLD is pretty tippy, too - until you sit down in it. Rows great, though!
But, there are many, many rowboat options that would fit your needs, including Bolger's SweetPea, Crystal, the "ultralight rowing boat for homebuilders" and Spur II.
Michalak has a number of rowing only designs, as well, of course.
If you want exercise in smooth water, shell might be your answer - though no passengers. Check out CLC's Oxford shell.
For another, better(IMO), option, skin-on-frame is definitely my fav for lightweight boats. Check out the late Platt Monfort's designs at www.gaboats.com, or even my own much simpler to build rowing wherry, RUTH:http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=99286
Can't help you with the Devlin Oarling, except to say that I met a woman who rowed one from Alaska to Seattle. Ought to be capable enough for your lake, even with some powerboat chop!
Good luck!
Dave Gentry
Seems like it would serve well. You have a good number of choices including a number of Michalak boats. GLD appears to be one of the less complex to build, even simpler than some of the Michalaks.
I can imagine how enjoyable some of those pre-dawn rows will be.
Don
I can imagine how enjoyable some of those pre-dawn rows will be.
Don
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Murray" <ugoigotoo@...> wrote:
>
> ...Now, maybe I should ask if this boat would be suitable for what I want to use it for....
>
I reread the part about chine options in Dynamite's booklet again today and he suggests fastening the bottom to the hull while on the molds. He didn't think it would be too difficult as you can securely fasten it to the stem and transom and there isn't much curve to the bottom. Then, He suggests sanding off the joint, rounding it and covering the bottom with fiberglass. After that is done it is possible to remove the hull from the molds, flip it over and fillet and glass the interior hull/bottom joints. So, like you say it's not really a stitch and glue as this method would depend on using the molds to form the hull as Harry suggests.
As has also been mentioned, it may be worth a call to Dynamite to see if he can shed any light on building it as a straight-up s&g boat. That would appear to be a little more straightforward than having to build the molds and a ladder jig.
I appreciate everybody sharing their opinions with me. Thank-you very much
Now, maybe I should ask if this boat would be suitable for what I want to use it for....
We have a cabin at a small lake 90 minutes from Saskatoon SK. I am always up early at the lake and would like a rowboat to get out on the water while most people are sleeping. I have a Michalak Ladybug that I built in 2008 but it isn't a rowboat and there is generally no wind in the morning so I can't take it for a sail. I think I got out for early morning sails twice last summer. So, I want a rowboat that is light and easy to launch and retrieve from the water, will row well and quietly and allow me to enjoy the lake before the daily onslaught of powerboats. I may occasionally have a passenger or two.
Is the GLD a good boat for my intended use?
The Devlin boat is longer. Sam says it is faster. It has the option of installing a sliding seat if I want to really get into rowing. Does anybody have experience with the Oarling and how it would compare to the GLD for this usage?
Cheers,
Murray
As has also been mentioned, it may be worth a call to Dynamite to see if he can shed any light on building it as a straight-up s&g boat. That would appear to be a little more straightforward than having to build the molds and a ladder jig.
I appreciate everybody sharing their opinions with me. Thank-you very much
Now, maybe I should ask if this boat would be suitable for what I want to use it for....
We have a cabin at a small lake 90 minutes from Saskatoon SK. I am always up early at the lake and would like a rowboat to get out on the water while most people are sleeping. I have a Michalak Ladybug that I built in 2008 but it isn't a rowboat and there is generally no wind in the morning so I can't take it for a sail. I think I got out for early morning sails twice last summer. So, I want a rowboat that is light and easy to launch and retrieve from the water, will row well and quietly and allow me to enjoy the lake before the daily onslaught of powerboats. I may occasionally have a passenger or two.
Is the GLD a good boat for my intended use?
The Devlin boat is longer. Sam says it is faster. It has the option of installing a sliding seat if I want to really get into rowing. Does anybody have experience with the Oarling and how it would compare to the GLD for this usage?
Cheers,
Murray
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "proaconstrictor" <proaconstrictor@...> wrote:
>
> Eliminating chine logs doesn't make it stitch and glue, it makes it a boat with epoxy/liquid joinery. I have done that with most of my Bolgers. I also eliminate the draggy (I suppose, never built one) outside chine arrangement. The outside chine is there to make the boat easier to clean, but with a tapped interior joint it amounts to the same thing. Come to think of it I did once row a Payson built GLD, and it rowed fine, with I presume the outside chine.
>
> One thing is that his three piece boats, the boxes and dories depend on the chine to fully pop out the sides, they may be a little limp without the chine logs there. On the octagonal section ones like Nymph the 45 degree angles will pop out nicely.
>
> What I do when building one of the chine log boats, I I leave it in, then I nail the bottom to it, then when I flip the boat, I bog the inside joint with a 1.5" radius filleting knife made out of some 1/4" plywood. I then lay some tape in there, and smooth it out into the epoxy with my gloved hand and wet the tape out with a disposible blush (keep it in a can with an inch of acetone in the bottom and a lid. One can reuse the same brush all summer, and no cleaning, except for working excess glue out before it goes into the bath).
>
> Then just flip the boat upside down, use a jigsaw, or router with a bearing guide, or a grinder, etc... to remove the chine (no permanent screws were used to mount it). I round over the external chine with the grinder, until some of the epoxy fillet from the inside peaks through. Keep the lines of ply and fillet nice and smooth, possibly fair with hand plane or long board. Fill any holes with bog, and imdediately lay tape over the little bits and peices of bog (1-3 cabosil to q-cell epoxy putty). Wet out some more tape. The pro finish is to keep laying down tape in declining layers like 6", 4", etc... The narrow stuff goes on last. When that kicks off you take a scraper and scrape down the selvage edge (raised edges of tape). Qucik grind or if you don't want fiber glass dust in the air some drywall liek fairing with several trouled on layers of 410. Topcoat with epoxy and paint.
>
> This is sorta tack and tape, however Payson's boats were scantled for use of polyester resin. With epoxy one can leave out the extra bulkheads/ring frames, and finish the interior, as if the boat was made of strip planing etc... That said, some of the smaller boats using longi seats like Nymph, and EP ned the mid bulkhead regardless.
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Murray" <ugoigotoo@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I am wondering if anybody on here has built the Gloucester Light Dory using stitch and glue rather than chine logs?
> >
> > I am looking at the Gloucester LIght Dory and Sam Devlin's Oarling dory as possibilities for my next boat. Does anybody have experience with both designs and any advice to share?
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Murray Stevens
> > Saskatoon SK Canada
> >
>
Eliminating chine logs doesn't make it stitch and glue, it makes it a boat with epoxy/liquid joinery. I have done that with most of my Bolgers. I also eliminate the draggy (I suppose, never built one) outside chine arrangement. The outside chine is there to make the boat easier to clean, but with a tapped interior joint it amounts to the same thing. Come to think of it I did once row a Payson built GLD, and it rowed fine, with I presume the outside chine.
One thing is that his three piece boats, the boxes and dories depend on the chine to fully pop out the sides, they may be a little limp without the chine logs there. On the octagonal section ones like Nymph the 45 degree angles will pop out nicely.
What I do when building one of the chine log boats, I I leave it in, then I nail the bottom to it, then when I flip the boat, I bog the inside joint with a 1.5" radius filleting knife made out of some 1/4" plywood. I then lay some tape in there, and smooth it out into the epoxy with my gloved hand and wet the tape out with a disposible blush (keep it in a can with an inch of acetone in the bottom and a lid. One can reuse the same brush all summer, and no cleaning, except for working excess glue out before it goes into the bath).
Then just flip the boat upside down, use a jigsaw, or router with a bearing guide, or a grinder, etc... to remove the chine (no permanent screws were used to mount it). I round over the external chine with the grinder, until some of the epoxy fillet from the inside peaks through. Keep the lines of ply and fillet nice and smooth, possibly fair with hand plane or long board. Fill any holes with bog, and imdediately lay tape over the little bits and peices of bog (1-3 cabosil to q-cell epoxy putty). Wet out some more tape. The pro finish is to keep laying down tape in declining layers like 6", 4", etc... The narrow stuff goes on last. When that kicks off you take a scraper and scrape down the selvage edge (raised edges of tape). Qucik grind or if you don't want fiber glass dust in the air some drywall liek fairing with several trouled on layers of 410. Topcoat with epoxy and paint.
This is sorta tack and tape, however Payson's boats were scantled for use of polyester resin. With epoxy one can leave out the extra bulkheads/ring frames, and finish the interior, as if the boat was made of strip planing etc... That said, some of the smaller boats using longi seats like Nymph, and EP ned the mid bulkhead regardless.
One thing is that his three piece boats, the boxes and dories depend on the chine to fully pop out the sides, they may be a little limp without the chine logs there. On the octagonal section ones like Nymph the 45 degree angles will pop out nicely.
What I do when building one of the chine log boats, I I leave it in, then I nail the bottom to it, then when I flip the boat, I bog the inside joint with a 1.5" radius filleting knife made out of some 1/4" plywood. I then lay some tape in there, and smooth it out into the epoxy with my gloved hand and wet the tape out with a disposible blush (keep it in a can with an inch of acetone in the bottom and a lid. One can reuse the same brush all summer, and no cleaning, except for working excess glue out before it goes into the bath).
Then just flip the boat upside down, use a jigsaw, or router with a bearing guide, or a grinder, etc... to remove the chine (no permanent screws were used to mount it). I round over the external chine with the grinder, until some of the epoxy fillet from the inside peaks through. Keep the lines of ply and fillet nice and smooth, possibly fair with hand plane or long board. Fill any holes with bog, and imdediately lay tape over the little bits and peices of bog (1-3 cabosil to q-cell epoxy putty). Wet out some more tape. The pro finish is to keep laying down tape in declining layers like 6", 4", etc... The narrow stuff goes on last. When that kicks off you take a scraper and scrape down the selvage edge (raised edges of tape). Qucik grind or if you don't want fiber glass dust in the air some drywall liek fairing with several trouled on layers of 410. Topcoat with epoxy and paint.
This is sorta tack and tape, however Payson's boats were scantled for use of polyester resin. With epoxy one can leave out the extra bulkheads/ring frames, and finish the interior, as if the boat was made of strip planing etc... That said, some of the smaller boats using longi seats like Nymph, and EP ned the mid bulkhead regardless.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Murray" <ugoigotoo@...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I am wondering if anybody on here has built the Gloucester Light Dory using stitch and glue rather than chine logs?
>
> I am looking at the Gloucester LIght Dory and Sam Devlin's Oarling dory as possibilities for my next boat. Does anybody have experience with both designs and any advice to share?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Murray Stevens
> Saskatoon SK Canada
>
There are curves in the GLD that are defined by the molds and the chines
and sheer pieces, it is subtle but it is real. It is what makes it a
Gloucester Light Dory and a work of art. There are several other
designers out there with their versions of a small dory in stitch and
glue. If you need to do stitch and glue, you could consider one of
those. They will look similar in photos.
HJ
adventures_in_astrophotography wrote:
and sheer pieces, it is subtle but it is real. It is what makes it a
Gloucester Light Dory and a work of art. There are several other
designers out there with their versions of a small dory in stitch and
glue. If you need to do stitch and glue, you could consider one of
those. They will look similar in photos.
HJ
adventures_in_astrophotography wrote:
> Hi Murry,
>
>
>> I am wondering if anybody on here has built the Gloucester Light Dory using stitch and glue rather than chine logs?
>>
>> I am looking at the Gloucester LIght Dory and Sam Devlin's Oarling dory as possibilities for my next boat. Does anybody have experience with both designs and any advice to share?
>>
>
> I built the Long Light Dory using stitch and glue. This boat is a 19'-6" version of the GLD. It's no trouble to build that way - basically just two long taped fillets on the inside. The design was developed for stitch & glue from the start.
>
> The big difference, if I'm not mistaken, is that the original was not intended for "instant" style construction, where the panel shapes are predefined and the location of frames or molds are indicated on the panel layouts. As such, you have to set the molds on a jig or ladder frame and spile or otherwise take the panel shapes from the setup. At this point a chine log starts to make things easier because it defines the bottom edge of the side panels. You could spring a batten to accomplish the same result if you really want to use S&G, but you'll have to get the bottom fitted and somehow attached to the sides before you can flip it over and off the jig to start taping the inside joints.
>
> It might be worth emailing Payson to see if he's come up with predefined panels for the GLD. He did it for another older non-instant Bolger design, Sea Hawk.
>
> Jon Kolb
> www.kolbsadventures.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
It's been done, a number of times. I've rowed a Gloucester Gull that was built S&G, and liked its looks (and the way it rowed!), etc. I would build that way, myself.
Haven't done it yet, though, so no tips . . . .
My pal, Eric, has built a few dorys S&G, and might have some tips.
boatfriberg@...
Good luck!
Dave Gentry
Haven't done it yet, though, so no tips . . . .
My pal, Eric, has built a few dorys S&G, and might have some tips.
boatfriberg@...
Good luck!
Dave Gentry
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Murray" <ugoigotoo@...> wrote:
> I am wondering if anybody on here has built the Gloucester Light Dory using stitch and glue rather than chine logs?
Not me, but I wouldn't hesitate to build it that way. I own the Devlin book about building any boat the stitch and glue way. I suggest you get his book and the GLD plans and have at it.
Don
Don
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Murray" <ugoigotoo@...> wrote:
>
> I am wondering if anybody on here has built the Gloucester Light Dory using stitch and glue rather than chine logs?
>
V/R
Chris
On 2/4/2010 9:41 AM, adventures_in_astrophotography wrote:It might be worth emailing Payson to see if he's come up with predefined panels for the GLD. He did it for another older non-instant Bolger design, Sea Hawk.
One of Payson’s books shows expanded panels for a Light Dory. There are several designers who have drawn variations of Light Dory including a version with more rocker and less sheer by Michalak and a slightly bigger version by Welsford—write ups and plans available from Duckworks.
Unless you really like sanding fiberglass and epoxy, I would suggest that plywood panels on timber chines is a lot quicker and cleaner boatbuilding technique.
JohnT
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:
bolger@yahoogroups.com ]On Behalf Ofadventures_in_astrophotography
Sent:Thursday, February 04, 2010
9:42 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject:[bolger] Re: Stitch &
Glue Gloucester Light Dory
Hi Murry,
> I am wondering if anybody on here has built the Gloucester Light Doryusing stitch and glue rather than chine logs?
>possibilities for my next boat. Does anybody have experience with both designs and any advice to share?
> I am looking at the Gloucester LIght Dory and Sam Devlin's Oarling dory as
I built the Long Light Dory using stitch and glue. This boat is a 19'-6" version of the GLD. It's no trouble to build that way - basically just two long taped fillets on the inside. The design was developed for stitch & glue from the start.
The big difference, if I'm not mistaken, is that the original was not intended for "instant" style construction, where the panel shapes are predefined and the location of frames or molds are indicated on the panel layouts. As such, you have to set the molds on a jig or ladder frame and spile or otherwise take the panel shapes from the setup. At this point a chine log starts to make things easier because it defines the bottom edge of the side panels. You could spring a batten to accomplish the same result if you really want to use S&G, but you'll have to get the bottom fitted and somehow attached to the sides before you can flip it over and off the jig to start taping the inside joints.
It might be worth emailing Payson to see if he's come up with predefined panels for the GLD. He did it for another older non-instant Bolger design, Sea Hawk.
Jon Kolb
www.kolbsadventures .com
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--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Murray" <ugoigotoo@...> wrote:
The only advantage I could see was light weight. Time to build was about the same, 100 hrs. More sanding in the S&G boat. For normal use I would build the chine boat, sheathe the exterior, and oil the interior.
>Yes, I built a Light Dory using stitch & glue in 2005. I built it for a beach club in RI. They have a dory racing series, and wanted a light boat. It could not have any foot braces, and had to have thole pins. Tracy O'Brien had developed panel shapes for the boat, so I used his panels, all 1/4" okoume, all composite joints, Spanish Cedar for thwarts and the first two laminations of the structural rub rails. Outer lamination was white oak, as were the thole pins and pads. Luckily for me, WoodenBoat had published an article about thole pins a couple of months previous to this, so this part was a piece of cake. Finished weight was 90 pounds. The boat won the series the next year. You can see some photos on my "Recent Projects" pages,http://www.oldwharf.com/recentprojects.html. You might have to look in the archived section.
> Hi,
>
> I am wondering if anybody on here has built the Gloucester Light Dory using stitch and glue rather than chine logs?
>
> I am looking at the Gloucester LIght Dory and Sam Devlin's Oarling dory as possibilities for my next boat. Does anybody have experience with both designs and any advice to share?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Murray Stevens
> Saskatoon SK Canada
>
The only advantage I could see was light weight. Time to build was about the same, 100 hrs. More sanding in the S&G boat. For normal use I would build the chine boat, sheathe the exterior, and oil the interior.
Hi Murry,
The big difference, if I'm not mistaken, is that the original was not intended for "instant" style construction, where the panel shapes are predefined and the location of frames or molds are indicated on the panel layouts. As such, you have to set the molds on a jig or ladder frame and spile or otherwise take the panel shapes from the setup. At this point a chine log starts to make things easier because it defines the bottom edge of the side panels. You could spring a batten to accomplish the same result if you really want to use S&G, but you'll have to get the bottom fitted and somehow attached to the sides before you can flip it over and off the jig to start taping the inside joints.
It might be worth emailing Payson to see if he's come up with predefined panels for the GLD. He did it for another older non-instant Bolger design, Sea Hawk.
Jon Kolb
www.kolbsadventures.com
> I am wondering if anybody on here has built the Gloucester Light Dory using stitch and glue rather than chine logs?I built the Long Light Dory using stitch and glue. This boat is a 19'-6" version of the GLD. It's no trouble to build that way - basically just two long taped fillets on the inside. The design was developed for stitch & glue from the start.
>
> I am looking at the Gloucester LIght Dory and Sam Devlin's Oarling dory as possibilities for my next boat. Does anybody have experience with both designs and any advice to share?
The big difference, if I'm not mistaken, is that the original was not intended for "instant" style construction, where the panel shapes are predefined and the location of frames or molds are indicated on the panel layouts. As such, you have to set the molds on a jig or ladder frame and spile or otherwise take the panel shapes from the setup. At this point a chine log starts to make things easier because it defines the bottom edge of the side panels. You could spring a batten to accomplish the same result if you really want to use S&G, but you'll have to get the bottom fitted and somehow attached to the sides before you can flip it over and off the jig to start taping the inside joints.
It might be worth emailing Payson to see if he's come up with predefined panels for the GLD. He did it for another older non-instant Bolger design, Sea Hawk.
Jon Kolb
www.kolbsadventures.com
Hi,
I am wondering if anybody on here has built the Gloucester Light Dory using stitch and glue rather than chine logs?
I am looking at the Gloucester LIght Dory and Sam Devlin's Oarling dory as possibilities for my next boat. Does anybody have experience with both designs and any advice to share?
Cheers,
Murray Stevens
Saskatoon SK Canada
I am wondering if anybody on here has built the Gloucester Light Dory using stitch and glue rather than chine logs?
I am looking at the Gloucester LIght Dory and Sam Devlin's Oarling dory as possibilities for my next boat. Does anybody have experience with both designs and any advice to share?
Cheers,
Murray Stevens
Saskatoon SK Canada