Re: Removable Hardtop
Originally we were considering an Oldshoe with a removable hardtop -
which I think would work great. But the shallower draft and lighter
weight of Philsboat won out when going out fishing without the sail rig.
http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/philsboat/index.htm
The plan is leave the hard top sections home when fishing and installing
them ahead of time if going out with the family. Of course you can still
do some trolling or shore fishing with the cabin on and some folks say
they can cast from the open slot.
Plan to use fairly light-weight but dark shaded acrylic windows. I
expect one person could remove and install. I was able to easily do that
on my Toyota truck topper which was one piece.
I am quite certain there will be some unforeseen issues with this idea.
Nels
which I think would work great. But the shallower draft and lighter
weight of Philsboat won out when going out fishing without the sail rig.
http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/philsboat/index.htm
The plan is leave the hard top sections home when fishing and installing
them ahead of time if going out with the family. Of course you can still
do some trolling or shore fishing with the cabin on and some folks say
they can cast from the open slot.
Plan to use fairly light-weight but dark shaded acrylic windows. I
expect one person could remove and install. I was able to easily do that
on my Toyota truck topper which was one piece.
I am quite certain there will be some unforeseen issues with this idea.
Nels
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "otter55806" <otter55806@...> wrote:
>
> I'm with Brian. It's a shame that we have to think of theft nowdays,
but we do, and that is why I've always gone with a light weight hardtop
of 1/4" ply, glassed.
> I've built a bantam and you really can't compare that to a micro, it's
much larger and heavier. I would think that handling a split micro
cabin in 1/4" ply would be doable. I'm thinking of doing such a cabin
for a samll skiff like the A4 B, but only 1 1/2" foam glassed on both
sides and no ply. Add maybe an inch to the inside of the hull inside the
cabin and it wouldn't take much to keep it warm on nights that go down
to or slightly below freezing.
> Bob
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "BrianA" bawrytr@ wrote:
> >
> > Mostly we have been talking about taking designs with cabins and
making the cabins removable for various reasons. So there really isn't
much difference in the weights involved, except perhaps a little bit of
framing to strengthen and provide clamping area around the base, because
being removable it cannot benefit as much from the underlying structure
of the boat.
> >
> > JM has written about and seems to have nothing bad to say, design or
weight wise, about hard slot-top covers, he just says that most people
who build one tend to go to a soft-top design because it is more
convenient for some reason.
> >
> > One of the reasons I put a hard cabin on my boat was that I wanted
to be able to leave it tied up in towns sometimes. A guy undoing a cloth
top could be mistaken for the owner, a guy breaking open even a fairly
flimsy plywood hatch is obviously a thief.
> >
> > Cheers, Brian
> >
> > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "simonfbroad" <simonfbroad@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Only thing I would ask is "how much weight does this add?"
> > >
> > > Weight at roof level is high up and is something JM constantly
warns about, adding weight at this height affecting the stability of a
design.
> > >
> > > Just a thought.
> > >
> > > Simon
> > >
> > >
> > > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "prairiedog2332" <arvent@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > My son is planning to finish a Birdwatcher-type design (Michalak
> > > > Philsboat) to have a removable hardtop, so he and buddies can
fish, with
> > > > the option of the hard-top to take his family out picnic
sailing.
> > > >
> > > > We were thinking of doing it the same way as a truck box topper
which
> > > > has a flange on the bottom to which a special closed-cell black
foam
> > > > gasket is installed. Then just bolting through the inwhales
using
> > > > lug-nuts and lock washers.
> > > >
> > > > Probably the topper will be in two pieces with a slot-top down
the
> > > > center-line and maybe 6 bolts for each section.
> > > >
> > > > I have found this to be fool-proof with 3 different pick-ups
although I
> > > > changed over to locking nuts if not looking at removing the
topper very
> > > > often.
> > > >
> > > > Anything wrong with this idea?
> > > >
> > > > Nels
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
I'm with Brian. It's a shame that we have to think of theft nowdays, but we do, and that is why I've always gone with a light weight hardtop of 1/4" ply, glassed.
I've built a bantam and you really can't compare that to a micro, it's much larger and heavier. I would think that handling a split micro cabin in 1/4" ply would be doable. I'm thinking of doing such a cabin for a samll skiff like the A4 B, but only 1 1/2" foam glassed on both sides and no ply. Add maybe an inch to the inside of the hull inside the cabin and it wouldn't take much to keep it warm on nights that go down to or slightly below freezing.
Bob
I've built a bantam and you really can't compare that to a micro, it's much larger and heavier. I would think that handling a split micro cabin in 1/4" ply would be doable. I'm thinking of doing such a cabin for a samll skiff like the A4 B, but only 1 1/2" foam glassed on both sides and no ply. Add maybe an inch to the inside of the hull inside the cabin and it wouldn't take much to keep it warm on nights that go down to or slightly below freezing.
Bob
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "BrianA" <bawrytr@...> wrote:
>
> Mostly we have been talking about taking designs with cabins and making the cabins removable for various reasons. So there really isn't much difference in the weights involved, except perhaps a little bit of framing to strengthen and provide clamping area around the base, because being removable it cannot benefit as much from the underlying structure of the boat.
>
> JM has written about and seems to have nothing bad to say, design or weight wise, about hard slot-top covers, he just says that most people who build one tend to go to a soft-top design because it is more convenient for some reason.
>
> One of the reasons I put a hard cabin on my boat was that I wanted to be able to leave it tied up in towns sometimes. A guy undoing a cloth top could be mistaken for the owner, a guy breaking open even a fairly flimsy plywood hatch is obviously a thief.
>
> Cheers, Brian
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "simonfbroad" <simonfbroad@> wrote:
> >
> > Only thing I would ask is "how much weight does this add?"
> >
> > Weight at roof level is high up and is something JM constantly warns about, adding weight at this height affecting the stability of a design.
> >
> > Just a thought.
> >
> > Simon
> >
> >
> > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "prairiedog2332" <arvent@> wrote:
> > >
> > > My son is planning to finish a Birdwatcher-type design (Michalak
> > > Philsboat) to have a removable hardtop, so he and buddies can fish, with
> > > the option of the hard-top to take his family out picnic sailing.
> > >
> > > We were thinking of doing it the same way as a truck box topper which
> > > has a flange on the bottom to which a special closed-cell black foam
> > > gasket is installed. Then just bolting through the inwhales using
> > > lug-nuts and lock washers.
> > >
> > > Probably the topper will be in two pieces with a slot-top down the
> > > center-line and maybe 6 bolts for each section.
> > >
> > > I have found this to be fool-proof with 3 different pick-ups although I
> > > changed over to locking nuts if not looking at removing the topper very
> > > often.
> > >
> > > Anything wrong with this idea?
> > >
> > > Nels
> > >
> >
>
Mostly we have been talking about taking designs with cabins and making the cabins removable for various reasons. So there really isn't much difference in the weights involved, except perhaps a little bit of framing to strengthen and provide clamping area around the base, because being removable it cannot benefit as much from the underlying structure of the boat.
JM has written about and seems to have nothing bad to say, design or weight wise, about hard slot-top covers, he just says that most people who build one tend to go to a soft-top design because it is more convenient for some reason.
One of the reasons I put a hard cabin on my boat was that I wanted to be able to leave it tied up in towns sometimes. A guy undoing a cloth top could be mistaken for the owner, a guy breaking open even a fairly flimsy plywood hatch is obviously a thief.
Cheers, Brian
JM has written about and seems to have nothing bad to say, design or weight wise, about hard slot-top covers, he just says that most people who build one tend to go to a soft-top design because it is more convenient for some reason.
One of the reasons I put a hard cabin on my boat was that I wanted to be able to leave it tied up in towns sometimes. A guy undoing a cloth top could be mistaken for the owner, a guy breaking open even a fairly flimsy plywood hatch is obviously a thief.
Cheers, Brian
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "simonfbroad" <simonfbroad@...> wrote:
>
> Only thing I would ask is "how much weight does this add?"
>
> Weight at roof level is high up and is something JM constantly warns about, adding weight at this height affecting the stability of a design.
>
> Just a thought.
>
> Simon
>
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "prairiedog2332" <arvent@> wrote:
> >
> > My son is planning to finish a Birdwatcher-type design (Michalak
> > Philsboat) to have a removable hardtop, so he and buddies can fish, with
> > the option of the hard-top to take his family out picnic sailing.
> >
> > We were thinking of doing it the same way as a truck box topper which
> > has a flange on the bottom to which a special closed-cell black foam
> > gasket is installed. Then just bolting through the inwhales using
> > lug-nuts and lock washers.
> >
> > Probably the topper will be in two pieces with a slot-top down the
> > center-line and maybe 6 bolts for each section.
> >
> > I have found this to be fool-proof with 3 different pick-ups although I
> > changed over to locking nuts if not looking at removing the topper very
> > often.
> >
> > Anything wrong with this idea?
> >
> > Nels
> >
>
Hi Nels,
JM keeps saying he will design a hardtop for his birdwatcher designs, but hasn't done that yet.
My friend Rex built one from 1/4" plywood with 1X2s (or 1X3s ?)on the sides and ends for his Philsboat. It is hinged 2' back from each end so you can open the front and back and lay the front and back back onto the center 4'. It makes it easy to remove as you are just picking up a 4' long device. It maybe adds 12 pounds to the cabin top and doesn't seem to affect stability.
Rex is not too sure he likes it and is re-thinking a soft slot cover.
Reed
JM keeps saying he will design a hardtop for his birdwatcher designs, but hasn't done that yet.
My friend Rex built one from 1/4" plywood with 1X2s (or 1X3s ?)on the sides and ends for his Philsboat. It is hinged 2' back from each end so you can open the front and back and lay the front and back back onto the center 4'. It makes it easy to remove as you are just picking up a 4' long device. It maybe adds 12 pounds to the cabin top and doesn't seem to affect stability.
Rex is not too sure he likes it and is re-thinking a soft slot cover.
Reed
Only thing I would ask is "how much weight does this add?"
Weight at roof level is high up and is something JM constantly warns about, adding weight at this height affecting the stability of a design.
Just a thought.
Simon
Weight at roof level is high up and is something JM constantly warns about, adding weight at this height affecting the stability of a design.
Just a thought.
Simon
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "prairiedog2332" <arvent@...> wrote:
>
> My son is planning to finish a Birdwatcher-type design (Michalak
> Philsboat) to have a removable hardtop, so he and buddies can fish, with
> the option of the hard-top to take his family out picnic sailing.
>
> We were thinking of doing it the same way as a truck box topper which
> has a flange on the bottom to which a special closed-cell black foam
> gasket is installed. Then just bolting through the inwhales using
> lug-nuts and lock washers.
>
> Probably the topper will be in two pieces with a slot-top down the
> center-line and maybe 6 bolts for each section.
>
> I have found this to be fool-proof with 3 different pick-ups although I
> changed over to locking nuts if not looking at removing the topper very
> often.
>
> Anything wrong with this idea?
>
> Nels
>
> > > Probably the topper will be...Having built a navigator cabin on a Micro, I am having a hard time
imagining how to handle such an unwieldy thing when you take it on and
off. And, where you might store it when not in use and/or during
transport. Not that it wouldn't be possible, but I predict doing a
removable navigator cabin would require many hands, and/or a clever
hoist, plus some frustration .
I think that PB&F gave a 'removable top' careful thought for their
Bantam design, and their clever solution with Bantam might be
informative. If I recall correctly, the Bantam removable top had the
side windows side panels that separare, and the top assembly had a
clever scheme arranged where you lifted one end on temporary posts
before lifting the other end, and the entire thing stacked neatly in
the cockpit during transport on the trailer.
Alternately, you might consider what Seth Macinko did with this
Tennesee cabin, where the top is light weight plywood, and the sides
are zippered clear plastic and removable on summer days, and weather
tight in the winter (Seth lives on board year 'round in New England,
so that is saying something.)
One thing that I figured was that the gasket material ought to be attached to the part that is removed or the pop top -- as any soft material is going to get chewed up if it is on top of a gunwale for instance that people are likely to sit on.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "prairiedog2332" <arvent@...> wrote:
>
> Correction - meant wing nuts - not lug nuts.
>
> A lug nut is a person who prefers lug sails;-)
>
> And the holes for the bolts, more likely through the out-whales rather
> the in-whales.
>
> Nels
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "prairiedog2332" <arvent@> wrote:
> Then just bolting through the inwhales using
> > lug-nuts and lock washers.
> >
> > Probably the topper will be in two pieces with a slot-top down the
> > center-line and maybe 6 bolts for each section.
> >
> > I have found this to be fool-proof with 3 different pick-ups although
> I
> > changed over to locking nuts if not looking at removing the topper
> very
> > often.
> >
> > Anything wrong with this idea?
> >
> > Nels
> >
>
Correction - meant wing nuts - not lug nuts.
A lug nut is a person who prefers lug sails;-)
And the holes for the bolts, more likely through the out-whales rather
the in-whales.
Nels
A lug nut is a person who prefers lug sails;-)
And the holes for the bolts, more likely through the out-whales rather
the in-whales.
Nels
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "prairiedog2332" <arvent@...> wrote:
Then just bolting through the inwhales using
> lug-nuts and lock washers.
>
> Probably the topper will be in two pieces with a slot-top down the
> center-line and maybe 6 bolts for each section.
>
> I have found this to be fool-proof with 3 different pick-ups although
I
> changed over to locking nuts if not looking at removing the topper
very
> often.
>
> Anything wrong with this idea?
>
> Nels
>
My son is planning to finish a Birdwatcher-type design (Michalak
Philsboat) to have a removable hardtop, so he and buddies can fish, with
the option of the hard-top to take his family out picnic sailing.
We were thinking of doing it the same way as a truck box topper which
has a flange on the bottom to which a special closed-cell black foam
gasket is installed. Then just bolting through the inwhales using
lug-nuts and lock washers.
Probably the topper will be in two pieces with a slot-top down the
center-line and maybe 6 bolts for each section.
I have found this to be fool-proof with 3 different pick-ups although I
changed over to locking nuts if not looking at removing the topper very
often.
Anything wrong with this idea?
Nels
Philsboat) to have a removable hardtop, so he and buddies can fish, with
the option of the hard-top to take his family out picnic sailing.
We were thinking of doing it the same way as a truck box topper which
has a flange on the bottom to which a special closed-cell black foam
gasket is installed. Then just bolting through the inwhales using
lug-nuts and lock washers.
Probably the topper will be in two pieces with a slot-top down the
center-line and maybe 6 bolts for each section.
I have found this to be fool-proof with 3 different pick-ups although I
changed over to locking nuts if not looking at removing the topper very
often.
Anything wrong with this idea?
Nels