Re: [bolger] Re: DIY suggestions...
Here's some more on coal tar epoxy vs. epoxy paint.
On Apr 7, 2010, at 5:36 AM, etap28 wrote:
I like that coal tar epoxy idea--haven' t heard of that stuff in years. For all I know, that might actually be POR-15
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups. com, "David" <lae52@...> wrote:
Thanks everybody for the suggestions. Of course I've settled on three different solutions: one, I mixed up some home made "waxoyl" which is turpentine, beeswax (toilet rings) and light motor oil--that's for the part of the frame I can't prep very well under the cab. Then I got some FluidFilm, which is sheep's wool lanolin stuff farmers swear by, for the really hard to get to places full of crud, then for most of the aft part of the frame I can prep well I got a can of POR-15, so the thing is going to be a rolling rust-test bed
Should be interesting in 3 yrs or so.
I like that coal tar epoxy idea--haven't heard of that stuff in years. For all I know, that might actually be POR-15
Should be interesting in 3 yrs or so.
I like that coal tar epoxy idea--haven't heard of that stuff in years. For all I know, that might actually be POR-15
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "David" <lae52@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Go to your local auto body supply house and ask them what they'd recommend. Give them all the pertinent prep info and they'll have something. I did this on a snow mobile trailer that I rebuilt at work and was quite happy with the results. I don't remember the name of the product we used, so I can't be of more help than the suggestion.
>
> Dave
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "etap28" <dave.irland@> wrote:
> >
> > Sorry for the non-Bolger related topic but I thought somebody here might have some experience with this, re. boat trailers, say
> >
> > Just got an older Dodge Dakota truck so I can tow my Defender. Pulled the bed off today to get at the frame rust. Does anybody know if WEST will seal and stick well to heavily prepped rusty steel (grinder, wire cup brush in an angle grinder)? (I've got lots of WEST lying around) I know that the Gougeons say to wire brush the wet epoxy so that it adheres to micro-scratches in the steel or iron
> >
> > Anybody know of any other good undercoatings? POR-15 is supposedly great but I'd have to order it and would like to do this tomorrow or Wednesday
> >
> > Fluid Film has been recommended
> >
>
I built a largely wooden trailer, but it connected via metal. I used epoxy on the metal parts, and while it helps eventually it comes off. Not everywhere. The key was while building to just work out brushes on it to try to keep up. But overall I would have been smarter to galvi it if I knew where to go. I think epoxy sticks pretty well to rust, but the seasonal heat cycles eventually peels it off in places.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "etap28" <dave.irland@...> wrote:
>
> Sorry for the non-Bolger related topic but I thought somebody here might have some experience with this, re. boat trailers, say
>
> Just got an older Dodge Dakota truck so I can tow my Defender. Pulled the bed off today to get at the frame rust. Does anybody know if WEST will seal and stick well to heavily prepped rusty steel (grinder, wire cup brush in an angle grinder)? (I've got lots of WEST lying around) I know that the Gougeons say to wire brush the wet epoxy so that it adheres to micro-scratches in the steel or iron
>
> Anybody know of any other good undercoatings? POR-15 is supposedly great but I'd have to order it and would like to do this tomorrow or Wednesday
>
> Fluid Film has been recommended
>
Try something like Ospho to prep the rusty metal. A conventional undercoating will just trap water in the rust, and epoxy is a mighty expensive way to go.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "etap28" <dave.irland@...> wrote:
>
> Sorry for the non-Bolger related topic but I thought somebody here might have some experience with this, re. boat trailers, say
>
> Just got an older Dodge Dakota truck so I can tow my Defender. Pulled the bed off today to get at the frame rust. Does anybody know if WEST will seal and stick well to heavily prepped rusty steel (grinder, wire cup brush in an angle grinder)? (I've got lots of WEST lying around) I know that the Gougeons say to wire brush the wet epoxy so that it adheres to micro-scratches in the steel or iron
>
> Anybody know of any other good undercoatings? POR-15 is supposedly great but I'd have to order it and would like to do this tomorrow or Wednesday
>
> Fluid Film has been recommended
>
Rust converters do work well. I used a different brand than POR but I expect it would be similar. I revived an old trailer that had been buried up past the hubs. I wire brushed it and painted it with the converter which also acted as a primer. 10 years later that trailer is still working. I’m sorry I don’t have the brand. A farmer friend of mine has used it for years to restore old equipment. He buys 5 gallons at a time. It was a two part product.
Myles J. Swift
voice line 541-895-3347
President, Computer Assistance Inc.
Helping independent auto and truck
repair businesses since 1978
OK, this will be a two part answer:)
Back in the early '80s I built a Roberts Spray 28 steel hull and deck with a wood trunk cabin, using West System Epoxy to laminate three layers of 1/4" ply for the cabin top. Out of curiosity I wire brushed the rust of of a piece of the 10 guage plate and coated it with some epoxy, then left it outside. Two years later it was still in place and you could still see shiny metal underneath the epoxy. I did not paint the epoxy as I wanted to be able to see the metal underneath, but otherwise painted epoxy would be best. So, yes, from my experience that works.
Second part. Coal Tar Epoxy. In the books on building in steel back then this was mentioned as really good, if somewhat a nuisense to work with. I checked several of the Mississippi River tow boat yards and found out that they used Rust Oleum Coat Tar Epoxy on their work boats. The one drawback to coat tar epoxy is that it is black and most top coats back then did not like to stick to it. For your usage that is not a consideration. For best and longest durability you had to sandblast, which is what did. When I sold that boat 15 years later it was still good. At that time the coal tar was cheaper than West System also. I had to order it though, not something the stores keep on the shelves. Do not confuse this coat tar epoxy with the stuff you now days find in the Marine catalogs, V something I think? This stuff came out and is sold to cover fiberglass hull bottoms in part of the process of taking care of blisters on old boats that had polyester resin and is much thinner than the Rust Oleum Coal Tar Epoxy. Welding steel with a stick welder created some warpage that I did not want on the deck for strickly ascetic reasons. I leveled this area of about two square feet with thickend epoxy and even though metal and epoxy have diferent expansion and contraction it had not broken loose in the 15 years I had the boat and I think that is a pretty impressive statement about epoxy!
Back in the early '80s I built a Roberts Spray 28 steel hull and deck with a wood trunk cabin, using West System Epoxy to laminate three layers of 1/4" ply for the cabin top. Out of curiosity I wire brushed the rust of of a piece of the 10 guage plate and coated it with some epoxy, then left it outside. Two years later it was still in place and you could still see shiny metal underneath the epoxy. I did not paint the epoxy as I wanted to be able to see the metal underneath, but otherwise painted epoxy would be best. So, yes, from my experience that works.
Second part. Coal Tar Epoxy. In the books on building in steel back then this was mentioned as really good, if somewhat a nuisense to work with. I checked several of the Mississippi River tow boat yards and found out that they used Rust Oleum Coat Tar Epoxy on their work boats. The one drawback to coat tar epoxy is that it is black and most top coats back then did not like to stick to it. For your usage that is not a consideration. For best and longest durability you had to sandblast, which is what did. When I sold that boat 15 years later it was still good. At that time the coal tar was cheaper than West System also. I had to order it though, not something the stores keep on the shelves. Do not confuse this coat tar epoxy with the stuff you now days find in the Marine catalogs, V something I think? This stuff came out and is sold to cover fiberglass hull bottoms in part of the process of taking care of blisters on old boats that had polyester resin and is much thinner than the Rust Oleum Coal Tar Epoxy. Welding steel with a stick welder created some warpage that I did not want on the deck for strickly ascetic reasons. I leveled this area of about two square feet with thickend epoxy and even though metal and epoxy have diferent expansion and contraction it had not broken loose in the 15 years I had the boat and I think that is a pretty impressive statement about epoxy!
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "etap28" <dave.irland@...> wrote:
>
> Sorry for the non-Bolger related topic but I thought somebody here might have some experience with this, re. boat trailers, say
>
> Just got an older Dodge Dakota truck so I can tow my Defender. Pulled the bed off today to get at the frame rust. Does anybody know if WEST will seal and stick well to heavily prepped rusty steel (grinder, wire cup brush in an angle grinder)? (I've got lots of WEST lying around) I know that the Gougeons say to wire brush the wet epoxy so that it adheres to micro-scratches in the steel or iron
>
> Anybody know of any other good undercoatings? POR-15 is supposedly great but I'd have to order it and would like to do this tomorrow or Wednesday
>
> Fluid Film has been recommended
>
Go to your local auto body supply house and ask them what they'd recommend. Give them all the pertinent prep info and they'll have something. I did this on a snow mobile trailer that I rebuilt at work and was quite happy with the results. I don't remember the name of the product we used, so I can't be of more help than the suggestion.
Dave
Dave
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "etap28" <dave.irland@...> wrote:
>
> Sorry for the non-Bolger related topic but I thought somebody here might have some experience with this, re. boat trailers, say
>
> Just got an older Dodge Dakota truck so I can tow my Defender. Pulled the bed off today to get at the frame rust. Does anybody know if WEST will seal and stick well to heavily prepped rusty steel (grinder, wire cup brush in an angle grinder)? (I've got lots of WEST lying around) I know that the Gougeons say to wire brush the wet epoxy so that it adheres to micro-scratches in the steel or iron
>
> Anybody know of any other good undercoatings? POR-15 is supposedly great but I'd have to order it and would like to do this tomorrow or Wednesday
>
> Fluid Film has been recommended
>
Sorry for the non-Bolger related topic but I thought somebody here might have some experience with this, re. boat trailers, say
Just got an older Dodge Dakota truck so I can tow my Defender. Pulled the bed off today to get at the frame rust. Does anybody know if WEST will seal and stick well to heavily prepped rusty steel (grinder, wire cup brush in an angle grinder)? (I've got lots of WEST lying around) I know that the Gougeons say to wire brush the wet epoxy so that it adheres to micro-scratches in the steel or iron
Anybody know of any other good undercoatings? POR-15 is supposedly great but I'd have to order it and would like to do this tomorrow or Wednesday
Fluid Film has been recommended
Just got an older Dodge Dakota truck so I can tow my Defender. Pulled the bed off today to get at the frame rust. Does anybody know if WEST will seal and stick well to heavily prepped rusty steel (grinder, wire cup brush in an angle grinder)? (I've got lots of WEST lying around) I know that the Gougeons say to wire brush the wet epoxy so that it adheres to micro-scratches in the steel or iron
Anybody know of any other good undercoatings? POR-15 is supposedly great but I'd have to order it and would like to do this tomorrow or Wednesday
Fluid Film has been recommended