Re: [bolger] Re: OT - Elegant Dock?

John, We use live load calculations based on the sqft of the floating dock that we will be building.Example If we were to build the 10'x10' float we would multiply 10'x10'=100x50#=5000#/650#=7.69 floats @650# each to give us a live load of 50# per sqft. We have a local company that manufactures polyencapsulated floats that are sized in various sizes. The 650# float is 2'x4'x18". we would round up and use 8 of these floats under a wood frame and wood deck float. They are secured with ss lags.  Mike
 
 

Mike Murray
American Dock & Marine Construction, Inc.
(843) 795-2999
www.americandock.net
----- Original Message -----
Sent:Wednesday, April 14, 2010 3:13 PM
Subject:Re: [bolger] Re: OT - Elegant Dock?

 

Live load, that makes sense. More mass means more inertia and less motion. Good to know.  
 
I'm assuming you mean 30-50 lbs per square foot live load? How do you go about acheiving it?

On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 12:10 PM, Mike Murray<mjm@knology. net>wrote:
 

John, We build a lot of small floating docks here in Charleston in the tidal creeks along with our larger projects on the harbor and the intracoastal waterway. With any float it requires a min  live load of at least 30#'s but we use at least 50#'s and secure the floats with 8"-10" marine treated piles. Since our normal tide range is 5'6" and can be as large as 7'6" on the moon tides we have a large swing every 6hrs. So we have 3'X 20' ramps that lead down to the floats. On a lake if a small dock were built and you were to maximize the flotation and secure all four corners it should be very stable.  Mike
 
 

I think the party barge is a great idea. Build a simple hull with a with a take-down cabin like the Bantam, doll it up nice. The cabin would extend the season for dock sitting, you could keep the bugs out, if it's a boat, you could maybe get around the 100 sq feet limit, easy to remove for the winter and if you keep the fore and aft decks low, it would work fine as a dock for small boats.

I have seen very good and stable docks made of styrofoam blocks covered in concrete reinforced with heavy chicken wire -- cheap and easy to make, heavy enough to be relatively stable, but maybe not so easy to remove for the winter...

Cheers, Brian

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "sals_dad" <sals_dad@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks all for the thoughts -
>
> Yes, a small dock will have to address stability considerations. But some permitting and location considerations are limiting factors - probably:
>
> - 100 sq ft may be the extreme upper limit allowed
> - zero disturbance of the shoreline or vegetation,
> - water level generally steady
> - pilings or posts probably not allowed
> - remove each winter,
> - only facility for launch/retrieval is a narrow launch ramp, a couple miles away
>
> Maybe a 8' x ?? x 1' closed plywood box, for maximum flotation?
>
> How about water ballast? ( opening up for heated argument over effectiveness of water ballast below the waterline ;-)
>
> Or an elegant party barge, connected to shore by a cantilevered drawbridge? just unhook the ramp, and motor off...
>
>
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, BllFs6@ wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > All the floation for the dock needs to be as close to the edge as possible for the most stable platform. Its even better if large areas around the edge are NOT quite underwater until someone gets close to it, the edge lowers a bit, then even significantly more bouyancy gets called into action. Of course such a design would be more complicated and have a deeper draft than your standard dock/deck where the floatation is uniformy distributed underneath.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: John Bell <yonderman@>
> > To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Wed, Apr 14, 2010 9:36 am
> > Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: OT - Elegant Dock?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I'd love to hear what the pros think of a 10x10 floating dock. My own experience with such small docks is they are little too 'tippy' to much more than launch a kayak or be used as a swim platform. A couple of people walking around on small floating docks causes them to lurch about uncomfortably. In my mind, an elegant dock should be able to support a table and chairs and not cause you to spill your pitcher of mimosas while you are sitting on it on a fine summer Sunday morning.
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 9:13 AM, sals_dad <sals_dad@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks, Mike - very nice work!
> >
> > But perhaps on a different scale. I would expect a floating dock to be 100 sq ft or less, with float and ramp light enough to carry out each season. A completely protected cove, on a six mile stretch of flat winding river.
> >
> > Maybe more like furniture than marine construction?
> >
> > Wish it was my house...
> >
> >
> > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Murray" <mjm@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello Curtis, I'm a local Marine contractor in Charleston, S.C. and have been working on the the water front for the last 50yrs. I've been constructing docks for the last 20yrs. You can go to my web site www.americandock.net
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> >
> > >
> > > As to the dock, I don't do "gorgeous", and a google search isn't much help -http://tinyurl.com/minimal-dockis the exception.
> > >
> > > Would you like to see Norm Abrams build a pretty dock? Photos or links to elegant examples would be especially welcome.
> > >
> >
>
Live load, that makes sense. More mass means more inertia and less motion. Good to know.
I'm assuming you mean 30-50 lbs per square foot live load? How do you go about acheiving it?

On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 12:10 PM, Mike Murray<mjm@...>wrote:

John, We build a lot of small floating docks here in Charleston in the tidal creeks along with our larger projects on the harbor and the intracoastal waterway. With any float it requires a min  live load of at least 30#'s but we use at least 50#'s and secure the floats with 8"-10" marine treated piles. Since our normal tide range is 5'6" and can be as large as 7'6" on the moon tides we have a large swing every 6hrs. So we have 3'X 20' ramps that lead down to the floats. On a lake if a small dock were built and you were to maximize the flotation and secure all four corners it should be very stable.  Mike

Thanks all for the thoughts -

Yes, a small dock will have to address stability considerations. But some permitting and location considerations are limiting factors - probably:

- 100 sq ft may be the extreme upper limit allowed
- zero disturbance of the shoreline or vegetation,
- water level generally steady
- pilings or posts probably not allowed
- remove each winter,
- only facility for launch/retrieval is a narrow launch ramp, a couple miles away

Maybe a 8' x ?? x 1' closed plywood box, for maximum flotation?

How about water ballast? ( opening up for heated argument over effectiveness of water ballast below the waterline ;-)

Or an elegant party barge, connected to shore by a cantilevered drawbridge? just unhook the ramp, and motor off...



--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, BllFs6@... wrote:
>
>
>
> All the floation for the dock needs to be as close to the edge as possible for the most stable platform. Its even better if large areas around the edge are NOT quite underwater until someone gets close to it, the edge lowers a bit, then even significantly more bouyancy gets called into action. Of course such a design would be more complicated and have a deeper draft than your standard dock/deck where the floatation is uniformy distributed underneath.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Bell <yonderman@...>
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wed, Apr 14, 2010 9:36 am
> Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: OT - Elegant Dock?
>
>
>
>
> I'd love to hear what the pros think of a 10x10 floating dock. My own experience with such small docks is they are little too 'tippy' to much more than launch a kayak or be used as a swim platform. A couple of people walking around on small floating docks causes them to lurch about uncomfortably. In my mind, an elegant dock should be able to support a table and chairs and not cause you to spill your pitcher of mimosas while you are sitting on it on a fine summer Sunday morning.
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 9:13 AM, sals_dad <sals_dad@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Thanks, Mike - very nice work!
>
> But perhaps on a different scale. I would expect a floating dock to be 100 sq ft or less, with float and ramp light enough to carry out each season. A completely protected cove, on a six mile stretch of flat winding river.
>
> Maybe more like furniture than marine construction?
>
> Wish it was my house...
>
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Murray" <mjm@> wrote:
> >
> > Hello Curtis, I'm a local Marine contractor in Charleston, S.C. and have been working on the the water front for the last 50yrs. I've been constructing docks for the last 20yrs. You can go to my web site www.americandock.net
>
> <snip>
>
>
> >
> > As to the dock, I don't do "gorgeous", and a google search isn't much help -http://tinyurl.com/minimal-dockis the exception.
> >
> > Would you like to see Norm Abrams build a pretty dock? Photos or links to elegant examples would be especially welcome.
> >
>
John, We build a lot of small floating docks here in Charleston in the tidal creeks along with our larger projects on the harbor and the intracoastal waterway. With any float it requires a min  live load of at least 30#'s but we use at least 50#'s and secure the floats with 8"-10" marine treated piles. Since our normal tide range is 5'6" and can be as large as 7'6" on the moon tides we have a large swing every 6hrs. So we have 3'X 20' ramps that lead down to the floats. On a lake if a small dock were built and you were to maximize the flotation and secure all four corners it should be very stable.  Mike
 
 

Mike Murray
American Dock & Marine Construction, Inc.
(843) 795-2999
www.americandock.net
----- Original Message -----
Sent:Wednesday, April 14, 2010 10:36 AM
Subject:Re: [bolger] Re: OT - Elegant Dock?

 

I'd love to hear what the pros think of a 10x10 floating dock. My own experience with such small docks is they are little too 'tippy' to much more than launch a kayak or be used as a swim platform. A couple of people walking around on small floating docks causes them to lurch about uncomfortably.  In my mind, an elegant dock should be able to support a table and chairs and not cause you to spill your pitcher of mimosas while you are sitting on it on a fine summer Sunday morning.

On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 9:13 AM, sals_dad<sals_dad@betts- orourke.net>wrote:
 

Thanks, Mike - very nice work!

But perhaps on a different scale. I would expect a floating dock to be 100 sq ft or less, with float and ramp light enough to carry out each season. A completely protected cove, on a six mile stretch of flat winding river.

Maybe more like furniture than marine construction?

Wish it was my house...



--- Inbolger@yahoogroups. com, "Mike Murray" <mjm@...> wrote:
>
> Hello Curtis, I'm a local Marine contractor in Charleston, S.C. and have been working on the the water front for the last 50yrs. I've been constructing docks for the last 20yrs. You can go to my web sitewww.americandock. net
<snip>


>
> As to the dock, I don't do "gorgeous", and a google search isn't much help -http://tinyurl. com/minimal- dockis the exception.
>
> Would you like to see Norm Abrams build a pretty dock? Photos or links to elegant examples would be especially welcome.
>

On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 4:32 AM, sals_dad <sals_dad@...> wrote:

> An architect friend is designing a minor renovation on a riverfront home - ...so I am looking for ideas she can present to the owners.


What I see in my imagination is a custom dock for mooring a Sneakeasy,
being a cool looking boat well suited for river cruising.

This would be an excellent opportunity for Norm to educate the viewing public on the necessity for a licensed and insured over the water contractor.   Any homeowner paying to have a dock built is well advised to make sure the builder carries United States Longshore and Harbors Act insurance.  Once a contractor crosses the ordinary water line workman’s compensation ceases to function.  Should a worker be hurt his legal recourse is to sue the adjacent upland owner for damages.  Maritime lawsuits are extremely expensive and if the water body is navigable you are talking federal court as the venue.  Almost every river is in the US is considered navigable waters of the US.

 

~Caloosarat

 

From:bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Ofsals_dad
Sent:Wednesday, April 14, 2010 7:45 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject:[bolger] OT - Elegant Dock?

 

 

Hi all -

An architect friend is designing a minor renovation on a riverfront home - and the project is on the radar of "This Old House". Seems to me the location really needs a gorgeous little dock and boat. The clients reportedly have a kayak at their summer place, but the architect isn't a boat person, so I am looking for ideas she can present to the owners.

A century ago, you would have seen this boat in front of the house:
http://www.ci.newton.ma.us/Jackson/canoeing/lower-falls/273.html- which Bolger design would work best for this?

As to the dock, I don't do "gorgeous", and a google search isn't much help -http://tinyurl.com/minimal-dockis the exception.

Would you like to see Norm Abrams build a pretty dock? Photos or links to elegant examples would be especially welcome.

Thanks
Curtis (aka Sal's Dad)

 
All the floation for the dock needs to be as close to the  edge as possible for the most stable platform. Its even better if large areas around the edge are NOT quite underwater until someone gets close to it, the edge lowers a bit, then even significantly more bouyancy gets called into action. Of course such a design would be more complicated and have a deeper draft than your standard dock/deck where the floatation is uniformy distributed underneath.



-----Original Message-----
From: John Bell <yonderman@...>
To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, Apr 14, 2010 9:36 am
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: OT - Elegant Dock?

 
I'd love to hear what the pros think of a 10x10 floating dock. My own experience with such small docks is they are little too 'tippy' to much more than launch a kayak or be used as a swim platform. A couple of people walking around on small floating docks causes them to lurch about uncomfortably.  In my mind, an elegant dock should be able to support a table and chairs and not cause you to spill your pitcher of mimosas while you are sitting on it on a fine summer Sunday morning.

On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 9:13 AM, sals_dad<sals_dad@betts- orourke.net>wrote:
 
Thanks, Mike - very nice work!

But perhaps on a different scale. I would expect a floating dock to be 100 sq ft or less, with float and ramp light enough to carry out each season. A completely protected cove, on a six mile stretch of flat winding river.

Maybe more like furniture than marine construction?

Wish it was my house...


--- Inbolger@yahoogroups. com, "Mike Murray" <mjm@...> wrote:
>
> Hello Curtis, I'm a local Marine contractor in Charleston, S.C. and have been working on the the water front for the last 50yrs. I've been constructing docks for the last 20yrs. You can go to my web sitewww.americandock. net
<snip>


>
> As to the dock, I don't do "gorgeous", and a google search isn't much help -http://tinyurl. com/minimal- dockis the exception.
>
> Would you like to see Norm Abrams build a pretty dock? Photos or links to elegant examples would be especially welcome.
>


I think ‘Defender’ (Small Boats, pages 10-13) matches closely;  Ian Oughtred’s Acorn Skiff or one of Walt Simmon’s wherries would also look good.

 

JohnT

 

From:bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto: bolger@yahoogroups.com ]On Behalf Ofsals_dad
Sent:Wednesday, April 14, 2010 7:32 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject:[bolger] OT - Elegant Dock?

 

 

Hi all -

An architect friend is designing a minor renovation on a riverfront home - and the project is on the radar of "This Old House". Seems to me the location really needs a gorgeous little dock and boat. The clients reportedly have a kayak at their summer place, but the architect isn't a boat person, so I am looking for ideas she can present to the owners.

A century ago, you would have seen this boat in front of the house:
http://www.ci. newton.ma. us/Jackson/ canoeing/ lower-falls/ 273.html- which Bolger design would work best for this?

As to the dock, I don't do "gorgeous", and a google search isn't much help -http://tinyurl. com/minimal- dockis the exception.

Would you like to see Norm Abrams build a pretty dock? Photos or links to elegant examples would be especially welcome.

Thanks
Curtis (aka Sal's Dad)

I'd love to hear what the pros think of a 10x10 floating dock. My own experience with such small docks is they are little too 'tippy' to much more than launch a kayak or be used as a swim platform. A couple of people walking around on small floating docks causes them to lurch about uncomfortably.  In my mind, an elegant dock should be able to support a table and chairs and not cause you to spill your pitcher of mimosas while you are sitting on it on a fine summer Sunday morning.

On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 9:13 AM, sals_dad<sals_dad@...>wrote:

Thanks, Mike - very nice work!

But perhaps on a different scale. I would expect a floating dock to be 100 sq ft or less, with float and ramp light enough to carry out each season. A completely protected cove, on a six mile stretch of flat winding river.

Maybe more like furniture than marine construction?

Wish it was my house...



--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Murray" <mjm@...> wrote:
>
> Hello Curtis, I'm a local Marine contractor in Charleston, S.C. and have been working on the the water front for the last 50yrs. I've been constructing docks for the last 20yrs. You can go to my web sitewww.americandock.net
<snip>


>
> As to the dock, I don't do "gorgeous", and a google search isn't much help -http://tinyurl.com/minimal-dockis the exception.
>
> Would you like to see Norm Abrams build a pretty dock? Photos or links to elegant examples would be especially welcome.
>


Thanks, Mike - very nice work!

But perhaps on a different scale. I would expect a floating dock to be 100 sq ft or less, with float and ramp light enough to carry out each season. A completely protected cove, on a six mile stretch of flat winding river.

Maybe more like furniture than marine construction?

Wish it was my house...



--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Murray" <mjm@...> wrote:
>
> Hello Curtis, I'm a local Marine contractor in Charleston, S.C. and have been working on the the water front for the last 50yrs. I've been constructing docks for the last 20yrs. You can go to my web site www.americandock.net
<snip>


>
> As to the dock, I don't do "gorgeous", and a google search isn't much help -http://tinyurl.com/minimal-dockis the exception.
>
> Would you like to see Norm Abrams build a pretty dock? Photos or links to elegant examples would be especially welcome.
>
Hello Curtis,  I'm a local Marine contractor in Charleston, S.C. and have been working on the the water front for the last 50yrs. I've been constructing docks for the last 20yrs. You can go to my web sitewww.americandock.net and see a few examples of our work here in Charleston. Also I am in the last stages of a 2yr restoration of a 1995 Bolger/Montgomery built Spartina. It was built by David Montgomery in his Gloucester Ma. yard and ended up here in Charleston years ago and was left to rot after just a few short seasons. I will be posting pictures once we finish.  If I can be of any other help let me know. Good luck,  Mike Murray
 
 

Mike Murray
American Dock & Marine Construction, Inc.
(843) 795-2999
www.americandock.net
----- Original Message -----
Sent:Wednesday, April 14, 2010 7:32 AM
Subject:[bolger] OT - Elegant Dock?

 

Hi all -

An architect friend is designing a minor renovation on a riverfront home - and the project is on the radar of "This Old House". Seems to me the location really needs a gorgeous little dock and boat. The clients reportedly have a kayak at their summer place, but the architect isn't a boat person, so I am looking for ideas she can present to the owners.

A century ago, you would have seen this boat in front of the house:
http://www.ci. newton.ma. us/Jackson/ canoeing/ lower-falls/ 273.html- which Bolger design would work best for this?

As to the dock, I don't do "gorgeous", and a google search isn't much help -http://tinyurl. com/minimal- dockis the exception.

Would you like to see Norm Abrams build a pretty dock? Photos or links to elegant examples would be especially welcome.

Thanks
Curtis (aka Sal's Dad)

Hi all -

An architect friend is designing a minor renovation on a riverfront home - and the project is on the radar of "This Old House". Seems to me the location really needs a gorgeous little dock and boat. The clients reportedly have a kayak at their summer place, but the architect isn't a boat person, so I am looking for ideas she can present to the owners.

A century ago, you would have seen this boat in front of the house:
http://www.ci.newton.ma.us/Jackson/canoeing/lower-falls/273.html- which Bolger design would work best for this?

As to the dock, I don't do "gorgeous", and a google search isn't much help -http://tinyurl.com/minimal-dockis the exception.

Would you like to see Norm Abrams build a pretty dock? Photos or links to elegant examples would be especially welcome.

Thanks
Curtis (aka Sal's Dad)