Re: A real forgotten gem, Bolger 554 Camping Trimaran using Hobie Cat parts!
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "gary" <gbship@...> wrote:
Pity about the setup time tho` .
>Many thanks Gary.
> The bow is a "sugar scoop," similar to the bow on an AS 19; it can't hold water because it's open at the front. Could be an impressive thump if it plowed into a steep wave or a motorboat wake. I had the plans and toyed with building it (until I spilled rubbing alcohol on the drawings and erased part of them). The accommodations were impressive and it looked to be a quick boat. I was concerned about the bow and the other potential drawback was the potentially long setup time. But with a bimini over the cockpit, it looked like a great boat for a week or better coastal cruise.
>
> Gary
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "hs" <hardystein2004@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Does anyone know how this boat looks at the bow ?
> >
> > The drawing looks a little ambiguous to me ...is it just a " foot well"
> > for rope anchor etc ...or to make stepping off easier ?
> >
> > How much water would this hold if swamped ?
> >
>
Pity about the setup time tho` .
The bow is a "sugar scoop," similar to the bow on an AS 19; it can't hold water because it's open at the front. Could be an impressive thump if it plowed into a steep wave or a motorboat wake. I had the plans and toyed with building it (until I spilled rubbing alcohol on the drawings and erased part of them). The accommodations were impressive and it looked to be a quick boat. I was concerned about the bow and the other potential drawback was the potentially long setup time. But with a bimini over the cockpit, it looked like a great boat for a week or better coastal cruise.
Gary
Gary
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "hs" <hardystein2004@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Does anyone know how this boat looks at the bow ?
>
> The drawing looks a little ambiguous to me ...is it just a " foot well"
> for rope anchor etc ...or to make stepping off easier ?
>
> How much water would this hold if swamped ?
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "daschultz2000" <daschultz8275@...> wrote:
Sounds like a good plan.
Is the essay on the web?
Always like reading Phil`s essays.
Thanks again.
>Thanks ,
> Having read the essay, I conclude the well may have a floor/deck with scuppers. If not, I'd probably make it free flooding with flappers on the drains.
>
> Don
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "hs" <hardystein2004@> wrote:
> > Does anyone know how this boat looks at the bow ?
> > The drawing looks a little ambiguous to me ...is it just a " foot well"
> > for rope anchor etc ...or to make stepping off easier ?
> >
> > How much water would this hold if swamped ?
> >
>
Sounds like a good plan.
Is the essay on the web?
Always like reading Phil`s essays.
Thanks again.
Having read the essay, I conclude the well may have a floor/deck with scuppers. If not, I'd probably make it free flooding with flappers on the drains.
Don
Don
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "hs" <hardystein2004@...> wrote:
> Does anyone know how this boat looks at the bow ?
> The drawing looks a little ambiguous to me ...is it just a " foot well"
> for rope anchor etc ...or to make stepping off easier ?
>
> How much water would this hold if swamped ?
>
Does anyone know how this boat looks at the bow ?
The drawing looks a little ambiguous to me ...is it just a " foot well"
for rope anchor etc ...or to make stepping off easier ?
How much water would this hold if swamped ?
The drawing looks a little ambiguous to me ...is it just a " foot well"
for rope anchor etc ...or to make stepping off easier ?
How much water would this hold if swamped ?
Yes maybe. Certainly one could try any of a number of rigs including the Chinese gaff PB&F has favored in later designs.
Just a matter of what you want to spend. If I were to build this and I found a Hobie w/o the rig my first stop might be a lug.
Don
Just a matter of what you want to spend. If I were to build this and I found a Hobie w/o the rig my first stop might be a lug.
Don
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "hs" <hardystein2004@...> wrote:
> I also think that this design could be " cheap " , and make as much sense if you rigged it with simple lug rig ( for example ).
>
Amazing boat!
I can see , and agree with the view that this boat`s design cleverly makes use of all those Hobie parts.
But ....
I also think that this design could be " cheap " , and make as much sense if you rigged it with simple lug rig ( for example ).
My thinking is that it could still perform very well and you would have a lot less hardware to contend with.
I`m not entirely sure you would " miss the point ", even though I agree and understand your reason for saying so.I suppose if one had to construct amas from scratch as well , the picture could change.
The benefit and value of this design remains valid because a number of discarded beach cats are suitable for this design.
Any comments?
I can see , and agree with the view that this boat`s design cleverly makes use of all those Hobie parts.
But ....
I also think that this design could be " cheap " , and make as much sense if you rigged it with simple lug rig ( for example ).
My thinking is that it could still perform very well and you would have a lot less hardware to contend with.
I`m not entirely sure you would " miss the point ", even though I agree and understand your reason for saying so.I suppose if one had to construct amas from scratch as well , the picture could change.
The benefit and value of this design remains valid because a number of discarded beach cats are suitable for this design.
Any comments?
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "wwwind2002" <datenmull@...> wrote:
>
> Bruce,
> magnificent work! I love the idea!
>
> I also love the idea of getting a bunch of hardware cheap. But I guess there is a hitch:
> a Hobie cat, a very light boat, just accelerates when a gust hits. This reduces the strain on the rig. (A monohull heels, archiving the same)
>
> But a heavier multihull (which cant simply zoom off with every gust) requires a stronger rig. Will the Hobie mast stand up to the extra force?
> And what about the sail? I assume (having never sailed one) it is cut very flat, for a fast boat is sailing on the wind all the time. It may lack power for a heavier boat.
>
> If you'd need a new rig you'd miss the point of the design.
> Any comments?
>
> Hannes
>
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <hallman@> wrote:
> >
> > Digging through old MAIB's I stumbled across this amazing lost gem of
> > PCB's design. Coming from that period of his life that I value the
> > most, where (IMO) he was at the peak of his creative game. Reflecting
> > a maximum of his "break all rules" elegant frugal simplicity. From
> > Feb 1, 1992, MAIB V09N18.
> >
> > The genius here that he recognized that the expensive part of a boat
> > build is buying all the miscellaneous pieces, hardware/sails/etc...
> > And, that it is possible to buy an old "un-loved" Hobie Cat 16 for
> > nearly free. (Several are selling locally on Craigslist right now for
> > $400, complete including sail and trailer.) Starting with those
> > parts, you add a simple big curved box (23'6" long) weighing a mere
> > 450lbs.
> >
> > This boat actually echo's a lot of his "box boat" values we admire,
> > but with the Hobie Cat cannibalized, comes across as more refined.
> >
> > Cut a Hobie Cat in half, attach it to a 450 lbs simple plywood box,
> > and you get a very capable camp cruiser that sleeps four. Genius.
> >
> > I worked her up using Free!Ship and I am convinced this boat could
> > easily and quickly be achieved.
> >
> >
> >http://hallman.org/bolger/554/554-01.html
> >
> >http://hallman.org/bolger/554/Bolger554CampingTrimaran.html
> >
>
> But a heavier multihull (which cant simply zoom off with every gust) requires a stronger rig. Will the Hobie mast stand up to the extra force?My guess is that the Hobie16 hardware is strong enough. And, the sail
> And what about the sail? I assume (having never sailed one) it is cut very flat, for a fast boat is sailing on the wind all the time. It may lack power for a heavier boat.
would be underpowered but it would work. (I think that Hobie Cat
sails are cut nicely, much better than the poly-tarp sails I typically
use!) . If you aren't moving fast enough, that is when the motor
comes in useful. This isn't a racer, but it is a cheap and handy
camper.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "mason smith" <goodboat@...> wrote:
The vee-shape has better flow lines though, so above lower fractional hull speeds where wetted area drops away as an important component of resistance then the Vee has it. Above hull speed... for this shallow Vee, bets are off.
I think this tri vaka may share some faults of the Pivers. The run may drag a large stern wave, for instance, but then I think this one more of a mono with outriggers than a tri. A fast mono.
Graeme
> However you get it, a vee-shaped underwater form has less wettedMason, I think it's the other way about: the Vee shape having more wetted area for the same displacement.
> area for the displacement than a level flat bottom. Other factors
> of hydrodynamics surely come into play, too...
The vee-shape has better flow lines though, so above lower fractional hull speeds where wetted area drops away as an important component of resistance then the Vee has it. Above hull speed... for this shallow Vee, bets are off.
I think this tri vaka may share some faults of the Pivers. The run may drag a large stern wave, for instance, but then I think this one more of a mono with outriggers than a tri. A fast mono.
Graeme
Bruce,
magnificent work! I love the idea!
I also love the idea of getting a bunch of hardware cheap. But I guess there is a hitch:
a Hobie cat, a very light boat, just accelerates when a gust hits. This reduces the strain on the rig. (A monohull heels, archiving the same)
But a heavier multihull (which cant simply zoom off with every gust) requires a stronger rig. Will the Hobie mast stand up to the extra force?
And what about the sail? I assume (having never sailed one) it is cut very flat, for a fast boat is sailing on the wind all the time. It may lack power for a heavier boat.
If you'd need a new rig you'd miss the point of the design.
Any comments?
Hannes
magnificent work! I love the idea!
I also love the idea of getting a bunch of hardware cheap. But I guess there is a hitch:
a Hobie cat, a very light boat, just accelerates when a gust hits. This reduces the strain on the rig. (A monohull heels, archiving the same)
But a heavier multihull (which cant simply zoom off with every gust) requires a stronger rig. Will the Hobie mast stand up to the extra force?
And what about the sail? I assume (having never sailed one) it is cut very flat, for a fast boat is sailing on the wind all the time. It may lack power for a heavier boat.
If you'd need a new rig you'd miss the point of the design.
Any comments?
Hannes
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <hallman@...> wrote:
>
> Digging through old MAIB's I stumbled across this amazing lost gem of
> PCB's design. Coming from that period of his life that I value the
> most, where (IMO) he was at the peak of his creative game. Reflecting
> a maximum of his "break all rules" elegant frugal simplicity. From
> Feb 1, 1992, MAIB V09N18.
>
> The genius here that he recognized that the expensive part of a boat
> build is buying all the miscellaneous pieces, hardware/sails/etc...
> And, that it is possible to buy an old "un-loved" Hobie Cat 16 for
> nearly free. (Several are selling locally on Craigslist right now for
> $400, complete including sail and trailer.) Starting with those
> parts, you add a simple big curved box (23'6" long) weighing a mere
> 450lbs.
>
> This boat actually echo's a lot of his "box boat" values we admire,
> but with the Hobie Cat cannibalized, comes across as more refined.
>
> Cut a Hobie Cat in half, attach it to a 450 lbs simple plywood box,
> and you get a very capable camp cruiser that sleeps four. Genius.
>
> I worked her up using Free!Ship and I am convinced this boat could
> easily and quickly be achieved.
>
>
>http://hallman.org/bolger/554/554-01.html
>
>http://hallman.org/bolger/554/Bolger554CampingTrimaran.html
>
I would guess the rudders could be moved to the aft of the main hull for a bit of leverage and to keep them immersed.
What's going on with the bow? Is that to keep one from testing less than protected waters? Or for simple egress to land?
Don
What's going on with the bow? Is that to keep one from testing less than protected waters? Or for simple egress to land?
Don
Have to agree Bruce. Subtle genius. Any considering the coastal cruiser Schorpioen might build this as a "proof of concept" first. Being a numbered plan, seems like there is a good chance it will become available some day.
Don
Don
I reckon I rank as an appreciator of Phil Bolger's
flat-bottomed boats, rockered and unrockered, but one thing Ilikeabout the low-cost trimaran 554 is its deadrise
bottom, because I suppose it gives the boat a shot at very good speed. I hadn't
thought that the vee was "necessary," as Chris puts it, in the tri, but he
surely has a point in that we can't heel this boat to put a better shape in the
water, as we do with Micro, Birdwatcher, Whalewatcher (so speak of boats I've
experienced), and a level flat-bottomed main hull might be a drag. However
you get it, a vee-shaped underwater form has less wetted area for the
displacement than a level flat bottom. Other factors of hydrodynamics
surely come into play, too, maybe two surfaces rather than three shouldering
water out of the way and none of them pushing it straight
down. Incidentally, though, back in April I steered a 32 foot Gemini
catamaran across Tampa Bay and back in brisk wind, single reef in the main, 7
knots most of the time, and didn't give a hoot for the experience. Rather sail
the Micro at 5 or 6 mph heeled the way God intended sailboats to heel. I would
hope the tri would lift one hull nicely and heel about as much, in moderate air,
as the Micro does, which ain't much. Signed, amateur,intuitive, no-account
non-architect.
----- Original Message -----Sent:Friday, June 11, 2010 2:12 PMSubject:Re: [bolger] A real forgotten gem, Bolger 554 Camping Trimaran using Hobie Cat parts!By "flat"I meant 0 deadrise. I recall seeing two bits of info that I lack sufficient time to search out for reference. One is the existence of "anti-stamp" pads for one of the AS series. The other is that PCB, in a write-up of an AS type boat, discussed at some length the fact that the hull shape was intended to heel so that the chine gave the behavior that a V bottom would otherwise. He further mentioned that the boat would be noisy at anchor.
V/R
Chris
On 6/11/2010 1:35 PM, Bruce Hallman wrote:On Fri, Jun 11, 2010 at 10:14 AM, Christopher C. Wetherill<wetherillc@verizon. net>wrote:The V bottom also is required because the boat will sail essentially upright. A flat bottom would stamp something fierce. The AS series sails heeled over so that the chine forms a V. V/R ChrisI partially agree. Flat bottom boats can pound fiercely. I agree. Where I disagree is that the so called Bolger Box sailboats. I am speaking only of the "box" displacement hulls like the Advanced Sharpies. Those hulls have very deep bottom curvatures. When viewed on paper in two dimension this harder to see, but look at these hulls in three dimensions, they have fat deeply curved bottoms. They certainly have hard very chines, but they that cannot be called flat. The boxy river cruisers which are meant to plane, like Tennesee, Wyoming, etc., do have relatively flat bottoms, but they aren't sail boats.
| Thanks for the post Bruce. Do you have any more information on the interior of the main hull or where I can get more information on the main hull? It would be close to perfect for my wife and I. Bud --- OnThu, 6/10/10, eric14850<eric14850@...>wrote: |
Bruce,
Would you care to comment on the shape of the box? I was surprised to see the bottom was V instead of flat. Noticed that the bottom rocker roughly followed the Hobie rocker, and the the profile looking down of the side of the box and the side of the hobie are perhaps roughly similar as well. The boat should sail with a very small angle of heel which I would expect would minimise eddies at the chines regardless of the match between side and bottom. Your insights after close attention to the lines will be appreciated.
A refinement might be to offset the struts to each ama so as to allow a couple of bolts to be undone and each ama slid up close to the main hull for trailering. Or did Phil have a solution already designed?
Someone could have a very capable, and perhaps attractive,boat very cheaply. I think the Corsair class boats, Bird/Whale Watcher class and this boat are under-rated and under-represented in the owner/builder world.
Eric
Would you care to comment on the shape of the box? I was surprised to see the bottom was V instead of flat. Noticed that the bottom rocker roughly followed the Hobie rocker, and the the profile looking down of the side of the box and the side of the hobie are perhaps roughly similar as well. The boat should sail with a very small angle of heel which I would expect would minimise eddies at the chines regardless of the match between side and bottom. Your insights after close attention to the lines will be appreciated.
A refinement might be to offset the struts to each ama so as to allow a couple of bolts to be undone and each ama slid up close to the main hull for trailering. Or did Phil have a solution already designed?
Someone could have a very capable, and perhaps attractive,boat very cheaply. I think the Corsair class boats, Bird/Whale Watcher class and this boat are under-rated and under-represented in the owner/builder world.
Eric
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <hallman@...> wrote:
>
> Digging through old MAIB's I stumbled across this amazing lost gem of
> PCB's design. Coming from that period of his life that I value the
> most, where (IMO) he was at the peak of his creative game. Reflecting
> a maximum of his "break all rules" elegant frugal simplicity. From
> Feb 1, 1992, MAIB V09N18.
>
> The genius here that he recognized that the expensive part of a boat
> build is buying all the miscellaneous pieces, hardware/sails/etc...
> And, that it is possible to buy an old "un-loved" Hobie Cat 16 for
> nearly free. (Several are selling locally on Craigslist right now for
> $400, complete including sail and trailer.) Starting with those
> parts, you add a simple big curved box (23'6" long) weighing a mere
> 450lbs.
>
> This boat actually echo's a lot of his "box boat" values we admire,
> but with the Hobie Cat cannibalized, comes across as more refined.
>
> Cut a Hobie Cat in half, attach it to a 450 lbs simple plywood box,
> and you get a very capable camp cruiser that sleeps four. Genius.
>
> I worked her up using Free!Ship and I am convinced this boat could
> easily and quickly be achieved.
>
>
>http://hallman.org/bolger/554/554-01.html
>
>http://hallman.org/bolger/554/Bolger554CampingTrimaran.html
>
Digging through old MAIB's I stumbled across this amazing lost gem of
PCB's design. Coming from that period of his life that I value the
most, where (IMO) he was at the peak of his creative game. Reflecting
a maximum of his "break all rules" elegant frugal simplicity. From
Feb 1, 1992, MAIB V09N18.
The genius here that he recognized that the expensive part of a boat
build is buying all the miscellaneous pieces, hardware/sails/etc...
And, that it is possible to buy an old "un-loved" Hobie Cat 16 for
nearly free. (Several are selling locally on Craigslist right now for
$400, complete including sail and trailer.) Starting with those
parts, you add a simple big curved box (23'6" long) weighing a mere
450lbs.
This boat actually echo's a lot of his "box boat" values we admire,
but with the Hobie Cat cannibalized, comes across as more refined.
Cut a Hobie Cat in half, attach it to a 450 lbs simple plywood box,
and you get a very capable camp cruiser that sleeps four. Genius.
I worked her up using Free!Ship and I am convinced this boat could
easily and quickly be achieved.
http://hallman.org/bolger/554/554-01.html
http://hallman.org/bolger/554/Bolger554CampingTrimaran.html
PCB's design. Coming from that period of his life that I value the
most, where (IMO) he was at the peak of his creative game. Reflecting
a maximum of his "break all rules" elegant frugal simplicity. From
Feb 1, 1992, MAIB V09N18.
The genius here that he recognized that the expensive part of a boat
build is buying all the miscellaneous pieces, hardware/sails/etc...
And, that it is possible to buy an old "un-loved" Hobie Cat 16 for
nearly free. (Several are selling locally on Craigslist right now for
$400, complete including sail and trailer.) Starting with those
parts, you add a simple big curved box (23'6" long) weighing a mere
450lbs.
This boat actually echo's a lot of his "box boat" values we admire,
but with the Hobie Cat cannibalized, comes across as more refined.
Cut a Hobie Cat in half, attach it to a 450 lbs simple plywood box,
and you get a very capable camp cruiser that sleeps four. Genius.
I worked her up using Free!Ship and I am convinced this boat could
easily and quickly be achieved.
http://hallman.org/bolger/554/554-01.html
http://hallman.org/bolger/554/Bolger554CampingTrimaran.html