Re: "Instant Boat Rig" sailing performance asymetery
Is the leeboard perfectly parallel to the centerline of the boat? It
seems that if it toed-out on one tack and toed-in on the other that
strange things might happen. Just a thought.
Ralph
seems that if it toed-out on one tack and toed-in on the other that
strange things might happen. Just a thought.
Ralph
--- Inbolger@egroups.com, "DGO " <oswald@c...> wrote:
> Also: on the fouled tack, the leeboard was on the lee of the boat.
That's what I am thinking, too, over-trimmed and maybe too much outhaul:
stalled. Try to fatten it up and get a little twist up top. You can try
some telltales on the leach and middle of the sail if you like - even
temporary cassette tape will tell you something before luffing does.
Gregg Carlson
At 06:50 PM 7/31/2000 -0000, you wrote:
stalled. Try to fatten it up and get a little twist up top. You can try
some telltales on the leach and middle of the sail if you like - even
temporary cassette tape will tell you something before luffing does.
Gregg Carlson
At 06:50 PM 7/31/2000 -0000, you wrote:
>I should probably stay out of this because I don't have the personal
>experience with sprit rig, but I am interested. Usually it's very
>difficult to make
>a boat stop if the sail is full and not luffing. I'm not sure how I
>would do it if I tried.
>
>I wonder if you had the sail in too tight. While the boom of a sloop
>is usually trimmed to amidships, or nearly, the sail of a cat-rigged
>boat must be trimmed more like a jib - well off the centerline. I
>would guess that the boom of a Teal would have to go outboard of the
>gunwhale about mid-ships. To find an approximate sheeting point, get
>the boat pointed about 45-50 deg from the true wind, then sheet in
>until the sail just stops luffing. Because of the asymetry of the
>rig, you may need to sheet just a tad differently on the two tacks.
>
>Another factor that could contribute would be something askew with
>the rudder and/or leeboard, causing lee helm or high drag. It's a
>little hard to see how that could affect only one tack though.
>
>You didn't say how hard the wind was blowing, or how flat you trimmed
>the sail (i.e. how hard you trimmed in the snotter).
>
>PHV
>>
>> If I got closer than about 55-60 deg on the tack where the sprit
>> fouled the sail, then I would stop moving forward ( not instantly
>but
>> eventually unless I fell off I would stop) . Luffing would not set
>in
>> untill I was pointed much higher. Also: on the fouled tack, the
>> leeboard was on the lee of the boat.
>>
>
>
>
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- no cursing
>- stay on topic
>- use punctuation
>- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
>- add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
>
>
I should probably stay out of this because I don't have the personal
experience with sprit rig, but I am interested. Usually it's very
difficult to make
a boat stop if the sail is full and not luffing. I'm not sure how I
would do it if I tried.
I wonder if you had the sail in too tight. While the boom of a sloop
is usually trimmed to amidships, or nearly, the sail of a cat-rigged
boat must be trimmed more like a jib - well off the centerline. I
would guess that the boom of a Teal would have to go outboard of the
gunwhale about mid-ships. To find an approximate sheeting point, get
the boat pointed about 45-50 deg from the true wind, then sheet in
until the sail just stops luffing. Because of the asymetry of the
rig, you may need to sheet just a tad differently on the two tacks.
Another factor that could contribute would be something askew with
the rudder and/or leeboard, causing lee helm or high drag. It's a
little hard to see how that could affect only one tack though.
You didn't say how hard the wind was blowing, or how flat you trimmed
the sail (i.e. how hard you trimmed in the snotter).
PHV
experience with sprit rig, but I am interested. Usually it's very
difficult to make
a boat stop if the sail is full and not luffing. I'm not sure how I
would do it if I tried.
I wonder if you had the sail in too tight. While the boom of a sloop
is usually trimmed to amidships, or nearly, the sail of a cat-rigged
boat must be trimmed more like a jib - well off the centerline. I
would guess that the boom of a Teal would have to go outboard of the
gunwhale about mid-ships. To find an approximate sheeting point, get
the boat pointed about 45-50 deg from the true wind, then sheet in
until the sail just stops luffing. Because of the asymetry of the
rig, you may need to sheet just a tad differently on the two tacks.
Another factor that could contribute would be something askew with
the rudder and/or leeboard, causing lee helm or high drag. It's a
little hard to see how that could affect only one tack though.
You didn't say how hard the wind was blowing, or how flat you trimmed
the sail (i.e. how hard you trimmed in the snotter).
PHV
>but
> If I got closer than about 55-60 deg on the tack where the sprit
> fouled the sail, then I would stop moving forward ( not instantly
> eventually unless I fell off I would stop) . Luffing would not setin
> untill I was pointed much higher. Also: on the fouled tack, the
> leeboard was on the lee of the boat.
>
--- Inbolger@egroups.com, G Carlson <ghartc@p...> wrote:
These sails are about 54 sq. ft. They are triangles, but not right
triangles. There is a sprit boom that is approxmatly horitzontal
about 1/5 of the way up the sail. The sheet attaches at the end of
the sprit. The sail is tied to the mast: mine has an attachement
point every 14-18" and has a piece of rope square-knotted into the
point, and then square knotted loosely around the mast. Head to foot
tension is maintained by a tie though a hole in the top of the mast,
and a tie from the foot of the sail around the partner and mast.
Leach to luff is tensioned by pulling on the snotter. This rig is
common to many of the instant boats and I suspect that they are that
way to minimize the number of sail rigs that had to be built and
tested when "proofing" the instant boats.
If I got closer than about 55-60 deg on the tack where the sprit
fouled the sail, then I would stop moving forward ( not instantly but
eventually unless I fell off I would stop) . Luffing would not set in
untill I was pointed much higher. Also: on the fouled tack, the
leeboard was on the lee of the boat.
> What does the sail look like? What kind/contruction?It's one of the darcon sails the Payson sells. A pretty thick darcon.
>
> Gregg Carlson
>
These sails are about 54 sq. ft. They are triangles, but not right
triangles. There is a sprit boom that is approxmatly horitzontal
about 1/5 of the way up the sail. The sheet attaches at the end of
the sprit. The sail is tied to the mast: mine has an attachement
point every 14-18" and has a piece of rope square-knotted into the
point, and then square knotted loosely around the mast. Head to foot
tension is maintained by a tie though a hole in the top of the mast,
and a tie from the foot of the sail around the partner and mast.
Leach to luff is tensioned by pulling on the snotter. This rig is
common to many of the instant boats and I suspect that they are that
way to minimize the number of sail rigs that had to be built and
tested when "proofing" the instant boats.
If I got closer than about 55-60 deg on the tack where the sprit
fouled the sail, then I would stop moving forward ( not instantly but
eventually unless I fell off I would stop) . Luffing would not set in
untill I was pointed much higher. Also: on the fouled tack, the
leeboard was on the lee of the boat.
> >Took my Teal out last weekend. The sailing rig is to plan: the sameTo
> >"sprit sail" or "leg of mutton" rig on a lot of the instant boats.
> >stay near shore, and avoid weird obstacles, I ended up running thenshape,
> >tacking back. Beating back I notices some serious asymetery in
> >sailing
> >performance. On the tack where the sprit did not foul the sail
> >I was able to sail at about 45 deg off the wind. On the tack wherethe
> >the sprit did foul the sail shape I could only get to 60 deg. off
> >wind. The boat also seemed to reach faster, with less heeling onthe
> >unfouled tack.symetrical?
> >
> >My question for the group:
> >
> >Is this common behavior amoung for the boats with the IBR?
> >
> >If not, what do I need to tune to get the performance more
> >
> >
> >DGO
> >
> >
I think performance should be almost equal on the two tacks. Although
the effect on sail shape from having the sail press against the sprit
is obvious, I suspect the turbulent air flow from having the sprint
proud on the lee side is just as important.
I don't see why having the sail blown against the sprit should cause
trouble with pointing ability. Can you explain further?
Peter
the effect on sail shape from having the sail press against the sprit
is obvious, I suspect the turbulent air flow from having the sprint
proud on the lee side is just as important.
I don't see why having the sail blown against the sprit should cause
trouble with pointing ability. Can you explain further?
Peter
--- Inbolger@egroups.com, "DGO " <oswald@c...> wrote:
> Took my Teal out last weekend. The sailing rig is to plan: the same
> "sprit sail" or "leg of mutton" rig on a lot of the instant boats.
To
> stay near shore, and avoid weird obstacles, I ended up running then
> tacking back. Beating back I notices some serious asymetery in
> sailing
> performance. On the tack where the sprit did not foul the sail
shape,
> I was able to sail at about 45 deg off the wind. On the tack where
> the sprit did foul the sail shape I could only get to 60 deg. off
the
> wind. The boat also seemed to reach faster, with less heeling on
the
> unfouled tack.
>
> My question for the group:
>
> Is this common behavior amoung for the boats with the IBR?
>
> If not, what do I need to tune to get the performance more
symetrical?
>
>
> DGO
What does the sail look like? What kind/contruction?
Gregg Carlson
Gregg Carlson
>Took my Teal out last weekend. The sailing rig is to plan: the same
>"sprit sail" or "leg of mutton" rig on a lot of the instant boats. To
>stay near shore, and avoid weird obstacles, I ended up running then
>tacking back. Beating back I notices some serious asymetery in
>sailing
>performance. On the tack where the sprit did not foul the sail shape,
>I was able to sail at about 45 deg off the wind. On the tack where
>the sprit did foul the sail shape I could only get to 60 deg. off the
>wind. The boat also seemed to reach faster, with less heeling on the
>unfouled tack.
>
>My question for the group:
>
>Is this common behavior amoung for the boats with the IBR?
>
>If not, what do I need to tune to get the performance more symetrical?
>
>
>DGO
>
>
>
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- no cursing
>- stay on topic
>- use punctuation
>- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
>- add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
Took my Teal out last weekend. The sailing rig is to plan: the same
"sprit sail" or "leg of mutton" rig on a lot of the instant boats. To
stay near shore, and avoid weird obstacles, I ended up running then
tacking back. Beating back I notices some serious asymetery in
sailing
performance. On the tack where the sprit did not foul the sail shape,
I was able to sail at about 45 deg off the wind. On the tack where
the sprit did foul the sail shape I could only get to 60 deg. off the
wind. The boat also seemed to reach faster, with less heeling on the
unfouled tack.
My question for the group:
Is this common behavior amoung for the boats with the IBR?
If not, what do I need to tune to get the performance more symetrical?
DGO
"sprit sail" or "leg of mutton" rig on a lot of the instant boats. To
stay near shore, and avoid weird obstacles, I ended up running then
tacking back. Beating back I notices some serious asymetery in
sailing
performance. On the tack where the sprit did not foul the sail shape,
I was able to sail at about 45 deg off the wind. On the tack where
the sprit did foul the sail shape I could only get to 60 deg. off the
wind. The boat also seemed to reach faster, with less heeling on the
unfouled tack.
My question for the group:
Is this common behavior amoung for the boats with the IBR?
If not, what do I need to tune to get the performance more symetrical?
DGO