Re: Jinni #426
I always heard if you want to fly you have to put wings on her :)
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "adventures_in_astrophotography" <jon@...> wrote:
>
> > As I said I find the sprit boomed rig difficult to reef, maybe there is an easier way that I have not found.
> ...snip...
>
> My first sailing boat (and first boat I built) was Bolger's Common Sense Skiff (#571 or #572, maybe) and it had a Solent lug main. It set and sailed just fine as long as the downhaul and snotter were set up properly, but it was quite a handful to reef. I especially didn't like that the halyard attachment on the yard had to be switched to a point further up. Fortunately, dropping the jib depowered the rig considerably (which is the same thing as saying that hoisting the jib really added a lot of drive), so we never reefed except once for practice.
>
> I thought about Jinni before I bought the plans for the CSS, but Bernie Wolfard told me he thought the design was way over canvassed for anything but very light air, which is always a very temporary situation in CO. I'd still like to build Jinni someday, but I would change the rig to a balanced lug main and probably reduce its area. I won't have a Solent lug again. I'd also go with non-kiting leeboards, but I don't know why everyone calls these Michalak boards - they've been around a long time, including on LFH's Meadowlark, I believe.
>
> Jon
>
Hello all.
Light-weight construction
attributes of designs are frequently wish-list driven, based on limited
materials use/ lower cost, expectations of light car-top- or trailer-weight, and
relative performance-gains.
With a few exceptions for very light and intermittent use, in hulls that appear to show too much of such flexibility, I would propose to address the issue with resonably simple upgrades:
With a few exceptions for very light and intermittent use, in hulls that appear to show too much of such flexibility, I would propose to address the issue with resonably simple upgrades:
1. In displacement speed hulls, for instance,
locally doubling the skin-thickness will not hurt performance or pocket-book
noticeably.
2. In weight-sensitive hulls adding inside a batten or two across that area should 'calm' things down a bit.
3. Or doubling the inside of the area's skin with a 1" layer of pink/blue foam, in turn protected against toes and elbows by an 1/8" plywood-layer, (with or without cloth) will add stiffness, buoyancy/safety, and certain thermal advantages in colder weather with limited cost and weight-increases.
With these and likely more minor upgrades perfectly doable to a reasonable budget, I would not decide against a design based on possible/actual 'oil-canning' concerns. When the occasion for a Design-Upgrade arose, in earlier years Phil alone, and then later both of us often integrated such reinforcements into a design when and where deemed appropriate; e.g. see #422 MICRO and #496 BIRDWATCHER-II.
Susanne Altenburger, PB&F
2. In weight-sensitive hulls adding inside a batten or two across that area should 'calm' things down a bit.
3. Or doubling the inside of the area's skin with a 1" layer of pink/blue foam, in turn protected against toes and elbows by an 1/8" plywood-layer, (with or without cloth) will add stiffness, buoyancy/safety, and certain thermal advantages in colder weather with limited cost and weight-increases.
With these and likely more minor upgrades perfectly doable to a reasonable budget, I would not decide against a design based on possible/actual 'oil-canning' concerns. When the occasion for a Design-Upgrade arose, in earlier years Phil alone, and then later both of us often integrated such reinforcements into a design when and where deemed appropriate; e.g. see #422 MICRO and #496 BIRDWATCHER-II.
Susanne Altenburger, PB&F
----- Original Message -----From:Patrick CrockettSent:Tuesday, July 20, 2010 9:06 AMSubject:Re: [bolger] Re: Jinni #426I sort of enjoy watching the ocean flow by under my Windsprint's bottom,
flexing the plywood as it goes. I suppose there is some loss of
efficiency (it must take energy to flex the wood, energy that might
otherwise be used to push the boat forward), but it might be small in
comparison with the loss of efficiency due to a boat that's twice as heavy.
Patrick
On 07/19/2010 11:48 PM, Bruce Hallman wrote:
>> Oilcanning might be eliminated that way,
>>
> What is wrong with oil canning? For instance, skin on frame boats
> float fine, and they have light weight. I noticed in one of those IBB
> pdf's that PCB is on record asking a question along the lines of: Why
> double strength everything? Stiffness and strength are not the same
> thing.
>
I sort of enjoy watching the ocean flow by under my Windsprint's bottom,
flexing the plywood as it goes. I suppose there is some loss of
efficiency (it must take energy to flex the wood, energy that might
otherwise be used to push the boat forward), but it might be small in
comparison with the loss of efficiency due to a boat that's twice as heavy.
Patrick
flexing the plywood as it goes. I suppose there is some loss of
efficiency (it must take energy to flex the wood, energy that might
otherwise be used to push the boat forward), but it might be small in
comparison with the loss of efficiency due to a boat that's twice as heavy.
Patrick
On 07/19/2010 11:48 PM, Bruce Hallman wrote:
>> Oilcanning might be eliminated that way,
>>
> What is wrong with oil canning? For instance, skin on frame boats
> float fine, and they have light weight. I noticed in one of those IBB
> pdf's that PCB is on record asking a question along the lines of: Why
> double strength everything? Stiffness and strength are not the same
> thing.
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <hallman@...> wrote:
I think there is an issue with material fatigue with oilcanning- the plywood is going to weaken in some areas due to the constant flexing. Also, although I don't know how serious this is, the oilcanning changes the shape of the hull, which must have some implications for its performance. Finally, at least for me, it is stressful to watch, which is not something I want when boating.
Kinguq.
>I have a skin on frame kayak, and it does not actually "oilcan" because there are lots of stringers and the skin is stretched tightly. The entire boat does flex however.
> > Oilcanning might be eliminated that way,
>
> What is wrong with oil canning? For instance, skin on frame boats
> float fine, and they have light weight. I noticed in one of those IBB
> pdf's that PCB is on record asking a question along the lines of: Why
> double strength everything? Stiffness and strength are not the same
> thing.
>
I think there is an issue with material fatigue with oilcanning- the plywood is going to weaken in some areas due to the constant flexing. Also, although I don't know how serious this is, the oilcanning changes the shape of the hull, which must have some implications for its performance. Finally, at least for me, it is stressful to watch, which is not something I want when boating.
Kinguq.
> Oilcanning might be eliminated that way,What is wrong with oil canning? For instance, skin on frame boats
float fine, and they have light weight. I noticed in one of those IBB
pdf's that PCB is on record asking a question along the lines of: Why
double strength everything? Stiffness and strength are not the same
thing.
Yes, I see that Michalak recommended the bottom be of thicker ply too. Oilcanning might be eliminated that way, and possibly by fitting a single ply shoe about 0.5" x ~12"max, similar to that on PB&F's Camper. There's a thoughtful article at the duckworks site about Windsprint where this was also independently recommended in future by a builder of the design. That sort of shoe would also reduce wetted area, and make for better rowing performance...
Thanks very much for sharing your experience. Point taken about the leeboards and righting after a knockdown. Perhaps a line for parbuckling may help? Sometimes righting can be made easier by unshipping the mast first - Michalak gives an indication that he stepped the mast afloat. I'd be interested in what you think of Michalak's idea of installing raised crutches to one side for carrying the struck rig. They would seem to solve some rowing issues. I guess they'd be removable too, but they might introduce other issues like handing the board, or landing a fish. What do you reckon?
I think Jim Michalak found a mizzen unnecessary for his type of camp cruising. He prefers a single sail for even quicker set up, though he does mention setting up his Jinni in 10 minutes - pretty quick. Elsewhere he mentions how easy the balanced lug is to carry, set up, and its ready range of adjusment on the go, but he does say the tall Jinni jib-headed sail is better to windward. Horses for courses?
Graeme
Thanks very much for sharing your experience. Point taken about the leeboards and righting after a knockdown. Perhaps a line for parbuckling may help? Sometimes righting can be made easier by unshipping the mast first - Michalak gives an indication that he stepped the mast afloat. I'd be interested in what you think of Michalak's idea of installing raised crutches to one side for carrying the struck rig. They would seem to solve some rowing issues. I guess they'd be removable too, but they might introduce other issues like handing the board, or landing a fish. What do you reckon?
I think Jim Michalak found a mizzen unnecessary for his type of camp cruising. He prefers a single sail for even quicker set up, though he does mention setting up his Jinni in 10 minutes - pretty quick. Elsewhere he mentions how easy the balanced lug is to carry, set up, and its ready range of adjusment on the go, but he does say the tall Jinni jib-headed sail is better to windward. Horses for courses?
Graeme
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "kinguq" <kinguq@...> wrote:
>
> As I said I find the sprit boomed rig difficult to reef, maybe there is an easier way that I have not found. I believe Michalak changed his to a standing lug without mizzen, possibly for this reason, but I may be wrong about that. Maybe he just had the rig on hand...
>
> The boat is difficult to row in any wind because there is a lot of windage on the masts. With the mast down, there is no room to row because the mast is too long to stow.
>
> The bottom is braced by 3 shoes but mine still flexes a lot. Again I would advise thicker ply on the bottom, possibly 1/2 or two courses of 1/4.
>
> I just find the rig a bit much to handle but that possibly reflects my sailing skills. I did not find that it would self steer readily so it required constant attention, making it difficult to get a drink or eat etc. There are a lot of variables to this, including the positioning of the leeboard which has a big effect.
>
> The one time I dumped the boat, I was not able to right it and had to swim for shore. The mast is rather long and once the sail fills with water the boat is very reluctant to come up. Without the leverage afforded by a leeboard or daggerboard the boat would not come up. For this reason alone I would advise against the loose leeboards. In any event they are a bit of a pain as you have to handle the leeward board on every tack unless you want it dragging along, and they are by necessity heavily weighted.
>
> Maybe the boat is just the thing for some, but it did not work well for me.
>
> Kinguq.
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Jinni carries sail for light winds. Jim Michalak capsized his about twice through his own fault, and never with the weight of two aboard. He carries little, and I'd guess where he sails he has no need to carry water either? Surely the mizzen helps when reefing? The rig doesn't interfere with the tent, may furl to the mast in place and so not leak all night into the accomodations. The hull is light for hauling up a beach loaded -- PB&F wrote once that a duo beachcruiser should not displace more than about 700lbs. Isn't the bottom braced by shoes? Maybe that could be of heavier stuff with outside plys oriented athwartships?
> >
> > I suppose as always it's horses for courses though. What were the negative rig issues you found to do with singlehanding?
> >
> > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "kinguq" <kinguq@> wrote:
> >
> > > It is somewhat overcanvassed and the rig is not convenient to reef.
> > > The rig is also difficult to single hand effectively.
> >
>
Also, the 'complete rundown', page 3 herehttp://www.boatdesign.com/postings/Files/instbb/ib9.pdf& plywood layout at page 9.
Bruce is this similar to the MAIB article. I still can't see yourhttp://www.hallman.org/bolger/426/TheSinglehander.png(TheSinglehander.png),http://www.hallman.org/bolger/426/V06-N17%20Jinni%20%20.gif(V06-N17 Jinni .gif), norhttp://www.hallman.org/bolger/426/V15-N19%20Jinni.gif(V15-N19 Jinni.gif). I see the rest though, thanks.
Graeme
Bruce is this similar to the MAIB article. I still can't see yourhttp://www.hallman.org/bolger/426/TheSinglehander.png(TheSinglehander.png),http://www.hallman.org/bolger/426/V06-N17%20Jinni%20%20.gif(V06-N17 Jinni .gif), norhttp://www.hallman.org/bolger/426/V15-N19%20Jinni.gif(V15-N19 Jinni.gif). I see the rest though, thanks.
Graeme
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "apraphett777" <djsaprophet@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Hello Robert when you get to Chucks site click on private postings then scroll all the way to the bottom of the page and click on under articles the newsletter it is in issue #5 HTH
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <footstepfollower@> wrote:
Graeme:
Many thanks for the link. I now have my own copies of all nine newsletters. A great read and a good resource!
Bill Howard
Nellysford VA
On Jul 19, 2010, at 3:01 AM, graeme19121984 wrote:
Robert,
the IBB articles at Mr Merrell's are pdfs. Do you have a pdf reader such as Acrobat installed? If not, some are available to download for free. Here's the main IBB pagehttp://www.boatdesign.com/postings/pages/instantbb.htm
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <footstepfollower@...> wrote:
> I can access the link to Chuck's site, but not the actual Instant Boatbuilder articles.
> As I said I find the sprit boomed rig difficult to reef, maybe there is an easier way that I have not found....snip...
My first sailing boat (and first boat I built) was Bolger's Common Sense Skiff (#571 or #572, maybe) and it had a Solent lug main. It set and sailed just fine as long as the downhaul and snotter were set up properly, but it was quite a handful to reef. I especially didn't like that the halyard attachment on the yard had to be switched to a point further up. Fortunately, dropping the jib depowered the rig considerably (which is the same thing as saying that hoisting the jib really added a lot of drive), so we never reefed except once for practice.
I thought about Jinni before I bought the plans for the CSS, but Bernie Wolfard told me he thought the design was way over canvassed for anything but very light air, which is always a very temporary situation in CO. I'd still like to build Jinni someday, but I would change the rig to a balanced lug main and probably reduce its area. I won't have a Solent lug again. I'd also go with non-kiting leeboards, but I don't know why everyone calls these Michalak boards - they've been around a long time, including on LFH's Meadowlark, I believe.
Jon
http://www.hallman.org/bolger/426/V06-N17%20Jinni%20%20.gif
I just discovered and fixed the bug in the copy of the Jim Michalak
Jinni article, corrected URL above.
I notice that Jinni is shaped a lot like a JuneBug, except being a cat
yawl instead of a sloop. With those bow and aft flotation chambers,
she should float pretty high on her side if knocked down. Michalak
reports 4 knots speed on a 10 knot wind! The drawing with the
Michalak article shows a side mounted dagger board, instead of
leeboards, so that should give some leverage when righting the hull
from a knockdown.
I just discovered and fixed the bug in the copy of the Jim Michalak
Jinni article, corrected URL above.
I notice that Jinni is shaped a lot like a JuneBug, except being a cat
yawl instead of a sloop. With those bow and aft flotation chambers,
she should float pretty high on her side if knocked down. Michalak
reports 4 knots speed on a 10 knot wind! The drawing with the
Michalak article shows a side mounted dagger board, instead of
leeboards, so that should give some leverage when righting the hull
from a knockdown.
Hello Robert when you get to Chucks site click on private postings then scroll all the way to the bottom of the page and click on under articles the newsletter it is in issue #5 HTH
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <footstepfollower@...> wrote:
>
>
> I can access the link to Chuck's site, but not the actual Instant Boatbuilder articles. I am quite interested in Jinni after reviewing what I can find. I am suprised more were not built. I would love to read the Michalak article.
>
> I would be torn between Jinni and Michalak's multi chine boats (woobo) as I live on the gulf. Like the two mast setup with mizzen, and the tabernacle. It would be fun to combine the two designs (woobo/Jinni). The flat floorboards of Jinni seem better suited to two campers, and I like the open slot in the rear airbox for oars etc...
>
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > At Chuck Merrell's site in an Instant Boatbuilder issue there's a two page article by Jim Michalak on his first Jinni, written after sailing for a while. In another issue there's a Jim Michalak layout sketch of plywood sheet use. Here's the indexhttp://www.boatdesign.com/postings/Files/instbb/index.pdf
> >
> > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Christopher C. Wetherill" <wetherillc@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Interesting that the pictures lack the leeboards.
> > >
> > > V/R
> > > Chris
> > > On 7/15/2010 10:44 PM, Bruce Hallman wrote:
> > > > On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 6:44 PM, Christopher C. Wetherill
> > > > <wetherillc@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Is the MAIB article posted anywhere?
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > > There actually was not a Bolger article about Jinni in MAIB. A couple
> > > > 'build' articles.
> > > > Early on there was a Jim Michalak article, and of course the write-up in the
> > > > Common Sense Design catalog, plus the essay from WB.
> > > >
> > > >http://www.hallman.org/bolger/426/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
As I said I find the sprit boomed rig difficult to reef, maybe there is an easier way that I have not found. I believe Michalak changed his to a standing lug without mizzen, possibly for this reason, but I may be wrong about that. Maybe he just had the rig on hand...
The boat is difficult to row in any wind because there is a lot of windage on the masts. With the mast down, there is no room to row because the mast is too long to stow.
The bottom is braced by 3 shoes but mine still flexes a lot. Again I would advise thicker ply on the bottom, possibly 1/2 or two courses of 1/4.
I just find the rig a bit much to handle but that possibly reflects my sailing skills. I did not find that it would self steer readily so it required constant attention, making it difficult to get a drink or eat etc. There are a lot of variables to this, including the positioning of the leeboard which has a big effect.
The one time I dumped the boat, I was not able to right it and had to swim for shore. The mast is rather long and once the sail fills with water the boat is very reluctant to come up. Without the leverage afforded by a leeboard or daggerboard the boat would not come up. For this reason alone I would advise against the loose leeboards. In any event they are a bit of a pain as you have to handle the leeward board on every tack unless you want it dragging along, and they are by necessity heavily weighted.
Maybe the boat is just the thing for some, but it did not work well for me.
Kinguq.
The boat is difficult to row in any wind because there is a lot of windage on the masts. With the mast down, there is no room to row because the mast is too long to stow.
The bottom is braced by 3 shoes but mine still flexes a lot. Again I would advise thicker ply on the bottom, possibly 1/2 or two courses of 1/4.
I just find the rig a bit much to handle but that possibly reflects my sailing skills. I did not find that it would self steer readily so it required constant attention, making it difficult to get a drink or eat etc. There are a lot of variables to this, including the positioning of the leeboard which has a big effect.
The one time I dumped the boat, I was not able to right it and had to swim for shore. The mast is rather long and once the sail fills with water the boat is very reluctant to come up. Without the leverage afforded by a leeboard or daggerboard the boat would not come up. For this reason alone I would advise against the loose leeboards. In any event they are a bit of a pain as you have to handle the leeward board on every tack unless you want it dragging along, and they are by necessity heavily weighted.
Maybe the boat is just the thing for some, but it did not work well for me.
Kinguq.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Jinni carries sail for light winds. Jim Michalak capsized his about twice through his own fault, and never with the weight of two aboard. He carries little, and I'd guess where he sails he has no need to carry water either? Surely the mizzen helps when reefing? The rig doesn't interfere with the tent, may furl to the mast in place and so not leak all night into the accomodations. The hull is light for hauling up a beach loaded -- PB&F wrote once that a duo beachcruiser should not displace more than about 700lbs. Isn't the bottom braced by shoes? Maybe that could be of heavier stuff with outside plys oriented athwartships?
>
> I suppose as always it's horses for courses though. What were the negative rig issues you found to do with singlehanding?
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "kinguq" <kinguq@> wrote:
>
> > It is somewhat overcanvassed and the rig is not convenient to reef.
> > The rig is also difficult to single hand effectively.
>
Jinni carries sail for light winds. Jim Michalak capsized his about twice through his own fault, and never with the weight of two aboard. He carries little, and I'd guess where he sails he has no need to carry water either? Surely the mizzen helps when reefing? The rig doesn't interfere with the tent, may furl to the mast in place and so not leak all night into the accomodations. The hull is light for hauling up a beach loaded -- PB&F wrote once that a duo beachcruiser should not displace more than about 700lbs. Isn't the bottom braced by shoes? Maybe that could be of heavier stuff with outside plys oriented athwartships?
I suppose as always it's horses for courses though. What were the negative rig issues you found to do with singlehanding?
I suppose as always it's horses for courses though. What were the negative rig issues you found to do with singlehanding?
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "kinguq" <kinguq@...> wrote:
> It is somewhat overcanvassed and the rig is not convenient to reef.
> The rig is also difficult to single hand effectively.
Robert,
the IBB articles at Mr Merrell's are pdfs. Do you have a pdf reader such as Acrobat installed? If not, some are available to download for free. Here's the main IBB pagehttp://www.boatdesign.com/postings/pages/instantbb.htm
the IBB articles at Mr Merrell's are pdfs. Do you have a pdf reader such as Acrobat installed? If not, some are available to download for free. Here's the main IBB pagehttp://www.boatdesign.com/postings/pages/instantbb.htm
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <footstepfollower@...> wrote:
> I can access the link to Chuck's site, but not the actual Instant Boatbuilder articles.
I built a Jinni in 1993. Still have it although it has not been used lately, needs some work.
In my considered opinion, there are some problems with the design that were likely corrected in later boats.
It is somewhat overcanvassed and the rig is not convenient to reef. The rig is also difficult to single hand effectively.
The hull shape pounds severely, and the 1/4 inch ply called for in the design flexes a lot. Use thicker ply.
The loose leeboards are terrible devices and in my opinion quite dangerous. I dumped the boat once and was nearly struck in the head with the windward leeboard, which is very heavy. They also are not useful for righting the boat. Use Michalak type leeboards.
The boat does not row well, and a motor mount is needed.
If I were doing it again (and I may...) I would build a chine design like one of the many Michalak models. That would overcome the flexing and pounding issues. There may be other Bolger designs that would serve as well.
Kinguq.
In my considered opinion, there are some problems with the design that were likely corrected in later boats.
It is somewhat overcanvassed and the rig is not convenient to reef. The rig is also difficult to single hand effectively.
The hull shape pounds severely, and the 1/4 inch ply called for in the design flexes a lot. Use thicker ply.
The loose leeboards are terrible devices and in my opinion quite dangerous. I dumped the boat once and was nearly struck in the head with the windward leeboard, which is very heavy. They also are not useful for righting the boat. Use Michalak type leeboards.
The boat does not row well, and a motor mount is needed.
If I were doing it again (and I may...) I would build a chine design like one of the many Michalak models. That would overcome the flexing and pounding issues. There may be other Bolger designs that would serve as well.
Kinguq.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <footstepfollower@...> wrote:
>
>
> I can access the link to Chuck's site, but not the actual Instant Boatbuilder articles. I am quite interested in Jinni after reviewing what I can find. I am suprised more were not built. I would love to read the Michalak article.
>
> I would be torn between Jinni and Michalak's multi chine boats (woobo) as I live on the gulf. Like the two mast setup with mizzen, and the tabernacle. It would be fun to combine the two designs (woobo/Jinni). The flat floorboards of Jinni seem better suited to two campers, and I like the open slot in the rear airbox for oars etc...
>
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > At Chuck Merrell's site in an Instant Boatbuilder issue there's a two page article by Jim Michalak on his first Jinni, written after sailing for a while. In another issue there's a Jim Michalak layout sketch of plywood sheet use. Here's the indexhttp://www.boatdesign.com/postings/Files/instbb/index.pdf
> >
> > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Christopher C. Wetherill" <wetherillc@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Interesting that the pictures lack the leeboards.
> > >
> > > V/R
> > > Chris
> > > On 7/15/2010 10:44 PM, Bruce Hallman wrote:
> > > > On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 6:44 PM, Christopher C. Wetherill
> > > > <wetherillc@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Is the MAIB article posted anywhere?
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > > There actually was not a Bolger article about Jinni in MAIB. A couple
> > > > 'build' articles.
> > > > Early on there was a Jim Michalak article, and of course the write-up in the
> > > > Common Sense Design catalog, plus the essay from WB.
> > > >
> > > >http://www.hallman.org/bolger/426/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
I can access the link to Chuck's site, but not the actual Instant Boatbuilder articles. I am quite interested in Jinni after reviewing what I can find. I am suprised more were not built. I would love to read the Michalak article.
I would be torn between Jinni and Michalak's multi chine boats (woobo) as I live on the gulf. Like the two mast setup with mizzen, and the tabernacle. It would be fun to combine the two designs (woobo/Jinni). The flat floorboards of Jinni seem better suited to two campers, and I like the open slot in the rear airbox for oars etc...
I would be torn between Jinni and Michalak's multi chine boats (woobo) as I live on the gulf. Like the two mast setup with mizzen, and the tabernacle. It would be fun to combine the two designs (woobo/Jinni). The flat floorboards of Jinni seem better suited to two campers, and I like the open slot in the rear airbox for oars etc...
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> At Chuck Merrell's site in an Instant Boatbuilder issue there's a two page article by Jim Michalak on his first Jinni, written after sailing for a while. In another issue there's a Jim Michalak layout sketch of plywood sheet use. Here's the indexhttp://www.boatdesign.com/postings/Files/instbb/index.pdf
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Christopher C. Wetherill" <wetherillc@> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Interesting that the pictures lack the leeboards.
> >
> > V/R
> > Chris
> > On 7/15/2010 10:44 PM, Bruce Hallman wrote:
> > > On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 6:44 PM, Christopher C. Wetherill
> > > <wetherillc@> wrote:
> > >
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Is the MAIB article posted anywhere?
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > > There actually was not a Bolger article about Jinni in MAIB. A couple
> > > 'build' articles.
> > > Early on there was a Jim Michalak article, and of course the write-up in the
> > > Common Sense Design catalog, plus the essay from WB.
> > >
> > >http://www.hallman.org/bolger/426/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
> Interesting that the pictures lack the leeboards.That's likely due to the boats shown being built to the (first?) version of the plan that has a single daggerboard shipped through slots let in the guards to starboard. It's somewhat similar to that on June Bug #400. The slot and upper guard are just visible here behind the starboard rollockhttp://www.hallman.org/bolger/426/V11-N14%20Jinni%20build.gifThe board as drawn has a leading edge that slants at a good angle aft to a square tip, thence a plumb trailing edge. Likewise the one-piece fixed-rudder slopes away aft, no doubt to shake off the skultch (don't ya love that word!) and potwarp common in the Designer's sailing home waters. In the 'Singlehander' PCB wrote that with the foils unshipped and laid on the aft deck Jinni was good for a mile or two of rowing, and, anyway, the woman preferred the chance to look around afforded by rowing the last into shallow sheltered anchorages. Personal safety, and good neighbourly relations were stressed here.
I believe Jim Michalak had the plans first and built Jinni from scratch with the alterations of his own Mk1 pivoting leeboard and rudder in mind to suit his thin waters. I'm not sure, but it seems likely the additional PCB drawing for the leeboards and kick-up rudder option as solely shown in the later CSB catalogues were added to the plans after Michalak reported back on the prototype. I think too that the mainsail rig design was altered from a thin (light-ish) mast and fixed head without halyard to show only that having halyard and track. The 'Singlehander' had unreefable halyardless main, but carried a much smaller mainsail which involved unstepping the mast to change sail. Although she might jerk the light rig quick-and-easy up and over the side alee to act as drogue when struck by a squall others possibly preferred easily taking in the two reefs as later shown. Michalak also fitted crutches to port to carry the large rig a foot or so higher than the gunnels when trailing and rowing.
The woman carried a tarp for this wet boat (landlubber campers might think groundsheet). It instantly gave a dry interior when laid across the floor and up the sides - a very neat touch I thought from someone who'd obviously beach cruised often. The 'Singlehander' extract is merely six paragraphs long which belies the vast amount of information and considered opinion it packs. What a writer.
Graeme
very delighted to have just caught a Bolger Boats for AUD21 and not 200+. Yippeeeeeee
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Christopher C. Wetherill" <wetherillc@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks,
>
> Interesting that the pictures lack the leeboards.
>
> V/R
> Chris
At Chuck Merrell's site in an Instant Boatbuilder issue there's a two page article by Jim Michalak on his first Jinni, written after sailing for a while. In another issue there's a Jim Michalak layout sketch of plywood sheet use. Here's the indexhttp://www.boatdesign.com/postings/Files/instbb/index.pdf
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Christopher C. Wetherill" <wetherillc@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks,
>
> Interesting that the pictures lack the leeboards.
>
> V/R
> Chris
> On 7/15/2010 10:44 PM, Bruce Hallman wrote:
> > On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 6:44 PM, Christopher C. Wetherill
> > <wetherillc@...> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> Is the MAIB article posted anywhere?
> >>
> >>
> >
> > There actually was not a Bolger article about Jinni in MAIB. A couple
> > 'build' articles.
> > Early on there was a Jim Michalak article, and of course the write-up in the
> > Common Sense Design catalog, plus the essay from WB.
> >
> >http://www.hallman.org/bolger/426/
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
Interesting that the pictures lack the leeboards.
V/R
Chris
On 7/15/2010 10:44 PM, Bruce Hallman wrote:
On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 6:44 PM, Christopher C. Wetherill<wetherillc@...>wrote:Is the MAIB article posted anywhere?There actually was not a Bolger article about Jinni in MAIB. A couple 'build' articles. Early on there was a Jim Michalak article, and of course the write-up in the Common Sense Design catalog, plus the essay from WB.http://www.hallman.org/bolger/426/
On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 6:44 PM, Christopher C. Wetherill
<wetherillc@...> wrote:
'build' articles.
Early on there was a Jim Michalak article, and of course the write-up in the
Common Sense Design catalog, plus the essay from WB.
http://www.hallman.org/bolger/426/
<wetherillc@...> wrote:
>There actually was not a Bolger article about Jinni in MAIB. A couple
>
>
> Is the MAIB article posted anywhere?
>
'build' articles.
Early on there was a Jim Michalak article, and of course the write-up in the
Common Sense Design catalog, plus the essay from WB.
http://www.hallman.org/bolger/426/
Is the MAIB article posted anywhere?
On 7/15/2010 9:02 PM, apraphett777 wrote:Yes Sir she sure is it is like the longer you look at her the more she seduces you :) --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984"<graeme19121984@...>wrote:Lovely looking design, Jinni, isn't she David? The harmony of the proportions, proud stem, the masts raked just so... ah. Of course there's the super practicality, the economy, and so on. Sometimes not seen immediately, it looks too easy, is the... genius. Graeme --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, david johnson <djsaprophet@> wrote:are the plans for Jinni in any of Phils books ?
Yes Sir she sure is it is like the longer you look at her the more she seduces you :)
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Lovely looking design, Jinni, isn't she David? The harmony of the proportions, proud stem, the masts raked just so... ah. Of course there's the super practicality, the economy, and so on. Sometimes not seen immediately, it looks too easy, is the... genius.
>
> Graeme
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, david johnson <djsaprophet@> wrote:
> >
> > are the plans for Jinni in any of Phils books ?
> >
>
'The Resident' is the Leeboard Catboat described in BWAOM, chapter 67.
> The "Scenarios" article is a great one, but what design is that
> featured in "The Resident"? PCB doesn't mention whether it is a
> finished design. It may be wholely speculative on the theme: the
> illustration is even by a Stephen L Davis.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...> wrote:
"... what design is that featured in "The Resident"? PCB doesn't mention whether it is a finished design. "
An essay with that title forms most of chapter 67 in BWAOM [Leeboard Catboat].
cheers
Derek
> When in doubt, contact 'the Source' i.e. us atSusanne,
> Phil Bolger & Friends Inc.
for those overseas, what do think of PayPal?
Graeme
Lovely looking design, Jinni, isn't she David? The harmony of the proportions, proud stem, the masts raked just so... ah. Of course there's the super practicality, the economy, and so on. Sometimes not seen immediately, it looks too easy, is the... genius.
Graeme
Graeme
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, david johnson <djsaprophet@...> wrote:
>
> are the plans for Jinni in any of Phils books ?
>
Bruce, thanks for the article references. I believe the WB essay also to be "The Singlehander (JINNI)" from Appendix #2 of my beaten up old 1991 CSD catalogue. The story is about a woman solo weekend cruising the lower Potomac. It points out the various attributes of the design, and manner of use possibilities. Appendix #2 also contains "The Lovers (MICRO)", and "The Family (BIRDWATCHER)".
Yep, that Wooden boat article "The Singlehander" is contained in the larger article "Six Cruising Scenarios" (p 76) only here the woman goes on further to think about upgrading accomodations etc to a boat that indeed is the Singlehand Catamaran from BWAOM. However she meets a man and goes off to crew for several years on a fibreglass IOR boat. Singlehand Cat is never built. The "Scenarios" article is a great one, but what design is that featured in "The Resident"? PCB doesn't mention whether it is a finished design. It may be wholely speculative on the theme: the illustration is even by a Stephen L Davis.
In an editorial snippet here at the end of Bolger's "Six Cruising Scenarios" we're told that PCB first slept aboard a small boat in 1941. And that he made it a thousand and one nights the previous summer. (Averaging a few weeks a year ? Resolution not counted due to... ?)
In "More On The Water Front" in this WB issue #86 there's news that La Rowe has sold his boat plan service to Wolfard and that it will be thence known as "Common Sense Boat Designs" in Baltimore, MI.
The following WB issue had significant positive feedback on PCB's work, and his "Six Cruising Scenarios" feature. Also advertised for sale was: "POINTER", built 1959, in excellent condition $12000.
PCB could be cited upwards of a dozen times each issue of WB around this period! Still huge, and for someone more or less retired!!! And much more yet to come!!!!
Graeme
Yep, that Wooden boat article "The Singlehander" is contained in the larger article "Six Cruising Scenarios" (p 76) only here the woman goes on further to think about upgrading accomodations etc to a boat that indeed is the Singlehand Catamaran from BWAOM. However she meets a man and goes off to crew for several years on a fibreglass IOR boat. Singlehand Cat is never built. The "Scenarios" article is a great one, but what design is that featured in "The Resident"? PCB doesn't mention whether it is a finished design. It may be wholely speculative on the theme: the illustration is even by a Stephen L Davis.
In an editorial snippet here at the end of Bolger's "Six Cruising Scenarios" we're told that PCB first slept aboard a small boat in 1941. And that he made it a thousand and one nights the previous summer. (Averaging a few weeks a year ? Resolution not counted due to... ?)
In "More On The Water Front" in this WB issue #86 there's news that La Rowe has sold his boat plan service to Wolfard and that it will be thence known as "Common Sense Boat Designs" in Baltimore, MI.
The following WB issue had significant positive feedback on PCB's work, and his "Six Cruising Scenarios" feature. Also advertised for sale was: "POINTER", built 1959, in excellent condition $12000.
PCB could be cited upwards of a dozen times each issue of WB around this period! Still huge, and for someone more or less retired!!! And much more yet to come!!!!
Graeme
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <hallman@...> wrote:
>
> On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 10:16 AM, david johnson <djsaprophet@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > are the plans for Jinni in any of Phils books ?
> >
>
>
> There are two Bolger design's name Jinni. The 1954 double ended sloop
> described in MAIB V15N19.
>
> But, the Jinni people think of the most is the cat-yawl (design 426)
> built by Jim Michalak 'instantboat-style', which Jim wrote a brief
> article about in MAIB vol 6 no 17 (7?). In MAIB V11-N11 there is a
> photo and a few paragraphs about the Jinni built by Greg McMillan of
> Port Townshend. Also, Burke Liburt (New York) had a Jinni advertised
> for sale in the MAIB classified ads about 2000.
>
> There is also the Phil Bolger essay about Jinni written up in a 1980's
> issue of Wooden Boat magazine, (is this issue #86 (Jan/Feb 1989)(I
> haven't seen it personally). In anycase, Jinni got republished in
> the Bernie Wolfard _Common Sense Boats_ catalog which was circulated
> in the early 1990's out of advertisements in MAIB. Bernie sold the
> plans for Jinni about this time too. I think that the
> copyright/royalties dispute has caused many of the designs from the
> Common Sense catalog to become obscure and not published by PB&F.
>
> Here is an isometric rendering of Jinni #426
>
>http://flickr.com/photos/hallman/2262668121/
>
Hello David Johnsson,
- the plans for Design # 6-54-A 19'6"x 5' Daysailer Sloop 'Jinny' on 4+1 non-standard smaller sheets are available for US$ 175.- to build one boat, sent priority-mail, rolled in a tube.
- Plans for Design # 426 on three 17"x22" are listed by Phil at $150.- to build one boat, sent priority-mail, rolled in a tube.
Phil Bolger/Phil Bolger & Friends Inc. have never relinquished any rights to anybody of the designs once sharedin good faithwith CSD. We have not received any royalties from CSD/CSB in a long time and consider their business-practices not in keeping with our expectations or that just about all friends of Phil Bolger's work. They have not received support from this office for well into the second decade now, such as in the form of clean copies to print clean plans from, or have received any of the updates and upgrades of plans and building keys.
When in doubt, contact 'the Source' i.e. us at
- the plans for Design # 6-54-A 19'6"x 5' Daysailer Sloop 'Jinny' on 4+1 non-standard smaller sheets are available for US$ 175.- to build one boat, sent priority-mail, rolled in a tube.
- Plans for Design # 426 on three 17"x22" are listed by Phil at $150.- to build one boat, sent priority-mail, rolled in a tube.
Phil Bolger/Phil Bolger & Friends Inc. have never relinquished any rights to anybody of the designs once sharedin good faithwith CSD. We have not received any royalties from CSD/CSB in a long time and consider their business-practices not in keeping with our expectations or that just about all friends of Phil Bolger's work. They have not received support from this office for well into the second decade now, such as in the form of clean copies to print clean plans from, or have received any of the updates and upgrades of plans and building keys.
When in doubt, contact 'the Source' i.e. us at
Phil Bolger & Friends Inc.
P.O.Box 1209
P.O.Box 1209
or
66 Atlantic Street
Gloucester, MA 01930-1627
This office's responsiveness is gradually improving.
----- Original Message -----From:david johnsonSent:Wednesday, July 07, 2010 1:16 PMSubject:[bolger]are the plans for Jinni in any of Phils books ?
On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 10:16 AM, david johnson <djsaprophet@...> wrote:
described in MAIB V15N19.
But, the Jinni people think of the most is the cat-yawl (design 426)
built by Jim Michalak 'instantboat-style', which Jim wrote a brief
article about in MAIB vol 6 no 17 (7?). In MAIB V11-N11 there is a
photo and a few paragraphs about the Jinni built by Greg McMillan of
Port Townshend. Also, Burke Liburt (New York) had a Jinni advertised
for sale in the MAIB classified ads about 2000.
There is also the Phil Bolger essay about Jinni written up in a 1980's
issue of Wooden Boat magazine, (is this issue #86 (Jan/Feb 1989)(I
haven't seen it personally). In anycase, Jinni got republished in
the Bernie Wolfard _Common Sense Boats_ catalog which was circulated
in the early 1990's out of advertisements in MAIB. Bernie sold the
plans for Jinni about this time too. I think that the
copyright/royalties dispute has caused many of the designs from the
Common Sense catalog to become obscure and not published by PB&F.
Here is an isometric rendering of Jinni #426
http://flickr.com/photos/hallman/2262668121/
>There are two Bolger design's name Jinni. The 1954 double ended sloop
>
>
> are the plans for Jinni in any of Phils books ?
>
described in MAIB V15N19.
But, the Jinni people think of the most is the cat-yawl (design 426)
built by Jim Michalak 'instantboat-style', which Jim wrote a brief
article about in MAIB vol 6 no 17 (7?). In MAIB V11-N11 there is a
photo and a few paragraphs about the Jinni built by Greg McMillan of
Port Townshend. Also, Burke Liburt (New York) had a Jinni advertised
for sale in the MAIB classified ads about 2000.
There is also the Phil Bolger essay about Jinni written up in a 1980's
issue of Wooden Boat magazine, (is this issue #86 (Jan/Feb 1989)(I
haven't seen it personally). In anycase, Jinni got republished in
the Bernie Wolfard _Common Sense Boats_ catalog which was circulated
in the early 1990's out of advertisements in MAIB. Bernie sold the
plans for Jinni about this time too. I think that the
copyright/royalties dispute has caused many of the designs from the
Common Sense catalog to become obscure and not published by PB&F.
Here is an isometric rendering of Jinni #426
http://flickr.com/photos/hallman/2262668121/
are the plans for Jinni in any of Phils books ?