Re: [bolger] oooey gooey sticky mess...suggestions welcome!
David, I am currently making a Micro and amongst my paperwork I have several pages of your Micro making exploit. The story seemed to have been cut short? Do you still have the boat?
thanks,
Rod Cahill
Bowning, Australia
From:dnjost <davidjost@...>
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent:Mon, 12 July, 2010 11:03:58 AM
Subject:[bolger] oooey gooey sticky mess...suggestions welcome!
I am in the final stages of prepping the 18' Work Skiff. I applied three coats of WEST to all surfaces to be clear coated, then applied Captain's Varnish (polyurethane high gloss with UV inhibitors) to the surfaces. After two weeks I have an ooey gooey mess that I have now scraped back to the epoxy surface and rewashed, and resanded.
What do you folks think the matter may have been. (Several factors at play here).
1. incomplete removal of epoxy blush.
2. High Humidity
3. Old varnish.
Has anyone tried Cetol clear coat in such a situation? It looks like a viable alternate to the polyurethane I have been using.
Ideas are welcome by this tired boatbuilder with an aching back. On the bright side, I now have a serial Number and can register the boat. The goal is August 1st for launching. Photos soon.
David Jost.
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It's news to me that Captain's Varnish is a
polyurethane. Is it, really? Is Flagship such, too? They are used a lot by the
mahogany runabout people, and I used them all the time myself, over epoxy, with
perfect success. Great varnishes in my experience and I prefer them, except on
antique boats, to Epifanes varnishes (since they seem better to spray. Epifanes
requires a daunting amount of thinning). I use System Three, MAS, and West
epoxies, and favor Flagship over Captain's because of the allegedly stronger UV
filter package which is hugely important (and needs to be kept up!). I think the
explanation of your mess must have been extreme blush, unless by chance you had
an unvented kerosene heater going in the shop. I once epoxied the interior of a
goodboat with a kerosene space heater in the shop (furnace broke down), and that
epoxy did not cure; had to be wiped out with thinner. Kern Hendricks of System
Three explained the chemistry of what had happened.
Anyway, I have never had nor heard of until now any
problem with any varnish over epoxy, even though it is a nice rule to follow:
two parts over two parts.
. ---Mason
----- Original Message -----From:dnjostSent:Sunday, July 11, 2010 10:17 PMSubject:[bolger] Re: oooey gooey sticky mess...suggestions welcome!
interesting. since posting, I went to the WEST site. They do caution against using one part polyurethane over it's epoxy and suggest a test first. I will use a tradintion spar varnish such as Z spar. Have used it for years with no issues.
epoxied surfaces have been washed and scrubbed with soap and water, cleaned with mineral spirits, and lightly sanded with 200 grit. Should be good now.
Will use an acrylic lates high gloss on the inside, over Kilz premium. this worked well on the exterior.
David
About Cetol I asked the tech support if work ok on epoxy and they said "Absolutly NO". Giuliano --- OnMon, 7/12/10, dnjost<davidjost@...>wrote:
|
It's a well=known fact that some varnishes do not cure over epoxy. I
have even had varnishes that used to cure not cure. Found out the
formulation had changed since I last used it. Now I test the varnish on
a sample before applying over epoxy. That being said, I still undercoat
varnish with epoxy for longevity...
Paul Esterle
Freelance Boating Writer
"Capt'n Pauley's Place"
The Virtual Boatyard
www.thevirtualboatyard.com
dnjost wrote:
have even had varnishes that used to cure not cure. Found out the
formulation had changed since I last used it. Now I test the varnish on
a sample before applying over epoxy. That being said, I still undercoat
varnish with epoxy for longevity...
Paul Esterle
Freelance Boating Writer
"Capt'n Pauley's Place"
The Virtual Boatyard
www.thevirtualboatyard.com
dnjost wrote:
>
>
> I am in the final stages of prepping the 18' Work Skiff. I applied three
> coats of WEST to all surfaces to be clear coated, then applied Captain's
> Varnish (polyurethane high gloss with UV inhibitors) to the surfaces.
> After two weeks I have an ooey gooey mess that I have now scraped back
> to the epoxy surface and rewashed, and resanded.
>
> What do you folks think the matter may have been. (Several factors at
> play here).
>
> 1. incomplete removal of epoxy blush.
> 2. High Humidity
> 3. Old varnish.
>
> Has anyone tried Cetol clear coat in such a situation? It looks like a
> viable alternate to the polyurethane I have been using.
>
> Ideas are welcome by this tired boatbuilder with an aching back. On the
> bright side, I now have a serial Number and can register the boat. The
> goal is August 1st for launching. Photos soon.
>
> David Jost.
>
>
interesting. since posting, I went to the WEST site. They do caution against using one part polyurethane over it's epoxy and suggest a test first. I will use a tradintion spar varnish such as Z spar. Have used it for years with no issues.
epoxied surfaces have been washed and scrubbed with soap and water, cleaned with mineral spirits, and lightly sanded with 200 grit. Should be good now.
Will use an acrylic lates high gloss on the inside, over Kilz premium. this worked well on the exterior.
David
epoxied surfaces have been washed and scrubbed with soap and water, cleaned with mineral spirits, and lightly sanded with 200 grit. Should be good now.
Will use an acrylic lates high gloss on the inside, over Kilz premium. this worked well on the exterior.
David
dnjost wrote:
over System 3 epoxy without problems.
Depending on the timing between the WEST and the Captains, my first
guess would be epoxy blush.
First, epoxy takes some time to cure, and several days at 80+ deg is
probably just a starter. The System 3 book that came with my Pygmy
Kayak kit 11 years ago recommended that the boat be used for a couple
months before varnishing, to ensure as complete a cure as possible. A
bad epoxy mix could delay the cure, too...
Next, the blush is essentially invisible, so how did you clean it off?
I use a nylon scrubber and dish detergent, followed by wet sanding
(200-240 followed by 400) with clear water.
I've used Cetol and Cetol Light, but not their clearcoat; both were used
only over teak, not over epoxy.
If you decide to buy new varnish, Z-Spar Flagship may be a better
alternative to Captains -- better UV inhibitors...
> I am in the final stages of prepping the 18' Work Skiff. I applied three coats of WEST to all surfaces to be clear coated, then applied Captain's Varnish (polyurethane high gloss with UV inhibitors) to the surfaces. After two weeks I have an ooey gooey mess that I have now scraped back to the epoxy surface and rewashed, and resanded.I've used Captains as well as Flagship (another Z-Spar product) varnish
>
> What do you folks think the matter may have been. (Several factors at play here).
>
> 1. incomplete removal of epoxy blush.
> 2. High Humidity
> 3. Old varnish.
>
> Has anyone tried Cetol clear coat in such a situation? It looks like a viable alternate to the polyurethane I have been using.
>
> Ideas are welcome by this tired boatbuilder with an aching back. On the bright side, I now have a serial Number and can register the boat. The goal is August 1st for launching. Photos soon.
over System 3 epoxy without problems.
Depending on the timing between the WEST and the Captains, my first
guess would be epoxy blush.
First, epoxy takes some time to cure, and several days at 80+ deg is
probably just a starter. The System 3 book that came with my Pygmy
Kayak kit 11 years ago recommended that the boat be used for a couple
months before varnishing, to ensure as complete a cure as possible. A
bad epoxy mix could delay the cure, too...
Next, the blush is essentially invisible, so how did you clean it off?
I use a nylon scrubber and dish detergent, followed by wet sanding
(200-240 followed by 400) with clear water.
I've used Cetol and Cetol Light, but not their clearcoat; both were used
only over teak, not over epoxy.
If you decide to buy new varnish, Z-Spar Flagship may be a better
alternative to Captains -- better UV inhibitors...
1
-----Original Message-----
From: dnjost <davidjost@...>
To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, Jul 11, 2010 9:03 pm
Subject: [bolger] oooey gooey sticky mess...suggestions welcome!
From: dnjost <davidjost@...>
To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, Jul 11, 2010 9:03 pm
Subject: [bolger] oooey gooey sticky mess...suggestions welcome!
I am in the final stages of prepping the 18' Work Skiff. I applied three coats of WEST to all surfaces to be clear coated, then applied Captain's Varnish (polyurethane high gloss with UV inhibitors) to the surfaces. After two weeks I have an ooey gooey mess that I have now scraped back to the epoxy surface and rewashed, and resanded.
What do you folks think the matter may have been. (Several factors at play here).
1. incomplete removal of epoxy blush.
2. High Humidity
3. Old varnish.
Has anyone tried Cetol clear coat in such a situation? It looks like a viable alternate to the polyurethane I have been using.
Ideas are welcome by this tired boatbuilder with an aching back. On the bright side, I now have a serial Number and can register the boat. The goal is August 1st for launching. Photos soon.
David Jost.
What do you folks think the matter may have been. (Several factors at play here).
1. incomplete removal of epoxy blush.
2. High Humidity
3. Old varnish.
Has anyone tried Cetol clear coat in such a situation? It looks like a viable alternate to the polyurethane I have been using.
Ideas are welcome by this tired boatbuilder with an aching back. On the bright side, I now have a serial Number and can register the boat. The goal is August 1st for launching. Photos soon.
David Jost.
Have you talked to the help line people at
West and at Captains Varnish???
I am in the final stages of prepping the 18' Work Skiff. I applied three coats of WEST to all surfaces to be clear coated, then applied Captain's Varnish (polyurethane high gloss with UV inhibitors) to the surfaces. After two weeks I have an ooey gooey mess that I have now scraped back to the epoxy surface and rewashed, and resanded.
What do you folks think the matter may have been. (Several factors at play here).
1. incomplete removal of epoxy blush.
2. High Humidity
3. Old varnish.
Has anyone tried Cetol clear coat in such a situation? It looks like a viable alternate to the polyurethane I have been using.
Ideas are welcome by this tired boatbuilder with an aching back. On the bright side, I now have a serial Number and can register the boat. The goal is August 1st for launching. Photos soon.
David Jost.
What do you folks think the matter may have been. (Several factors at play here).
1. incomplete removal of epoxy blush.
2. High Humidity
3. Old varnish.
Has anyone tried Cetol clear coat in such a situation? It looks like a viable alternate to the polyurethane I have been using.
Ideas are welcome by this tired boatbuilder with an aching back. On the bright side, I now have a serial Number and can register the boat. The goal is August 1st for launching. Photos soon.
David Jost.