Re: fiberglass butt joints & a note on Toto
> I'm just starting a Michalak Toto and have a questionTo Bill and anyone else starting a Toto:
> regarding fiberglass butt joints.
>
This is a little thing, and not really Bolger, but maybe worth
mentioning. When I cut all the panels as indicated for my Toto this
spring, the bilge panel overlapped the side panel in a weird way. I e-
mailed Jim Michalak about it and he said, yes, there's a small
problem with the blueprints. (Maybe he's corrected it on sets sent
out since then?)
For what it's worth, here's my note to him. Basically, you
should recalculate the dimensions of the bilge panel at each frame
location (to match the dimension of the frame there), and draw the
panel slightly differently than indicated.
Here's my note to Jim:
>>>I recently bought the Toto plans from you and am in the midst of
building it. I cut all the frames and bulkheads and panels to your
measurements on the blueprint, and then went to fit them all
together. Everything looked great as the sides went onto the frames
and the gunwales got fit on.
Then when it came time to install the bilge panels, I noticed that
the aft edge of the bilge panel was too wide for the portion of the
transom that was to receive it. I thought, did I really cut it that
bad? It overlaps the side by about ¼". Then I checked your
drawing
and noticed that if you work out the length of that angled section of
the transom, using the right triangle indicated by some of the given
dimensions of the transom, that section which is to receive the end
of the bilge panel comes out to exactly 4.717". But the bilge
panel
is explicitly 5" wide there. Hence my overlap.
Then I checked the match-up of the angled section of the other frames
and bulkheads vs. the dimension of the bilge panel at their locations
and bulkhead 10 is also a bit undersized to receive the
indicated
bilge panel (7.846" on the bulkhead vs. 8.125" on the panel)
and the
other bulkhead/frames (at 7, 4, and 2) are all a bit bigger than the
bilge panel which is much easier to deal with.
I'll just recut the bilge panel to try to make it fit the space
available for it.
>>>>Just a note based on my experience: recutting the panel to fit the
frames after the fact makes for curves that aren't quite fair. Best
to fix it early on.
For what it's worth,
Garth
Bill,
When I built my Bolger/Payson "Canoe" or "Pirogue" (Bolger
calls it a pirogue, Payson calls it a canoe), I laid out all the pieces
and cut them out prior to gluing the butt joints. I did this to avoid
maneuvering a 4' x 16' sheet of floppy 1/4" luan around the shop.
When I did glue the butts I accidentally reversed the positions of
the two forward bilge panels, making the boat impossible to
assemble. I spent two days cursing Bolger's incompetence before
I figured out what I had done. Then it was time to curse my own
incompetence, and to fix my mistake. Situations like this build
character, but slow the construction of boats. I've subsequently
used the same technique--cut and then assemble--on other boats,
but I've been very careful to mark each panel with its proper
position and to align the panels precisely.
Imho, you *do* have butt joint anxiety. This is a good thing. Glue
the joints before cutting the panels, if you have the room,
david galvin
When I built my Bolger/Payson "Canoe" or "Pirogue" (Bolger
calls it a pirogue, Payson calls it a canoe), I laid out all the pieces
and cut them out prior to gluing the butt joints. I did this to avoid
maneuvering a 4' x 16' sheet of floppy 1/4" luan around the shop.
When I did glue the butts I accidentally reversed the positions of
the two forward bilge panels, making the boat impossible to
assemble. I spent two days cursing Bolger's incompetence before
I figured out what I had done. Then it was time to curse my own
incompetence, and to fix my mistake. Situations like this build
character, but slow the construction of boats. I've subsequently
used the same technique--cut and then assemble--on other boats,
but I've been very careful to mark each panel with its proper
position and to align the panels precisely.
Imho, you *do* have butt joint anxiety. This is a good thing. Glue
the joints before cutting the panels, if you have the room,
david galvin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Turnbull" wturn@y...
To:bolger@egroups.com
Sent: Monday, July 31, 2000 8:38 PM
Subject: [bolger] fiberglass butt joints
> Hi all,
>
> I'm just starting a Michalak Toto and have a question
> regarding fiberglass butt joints.
>
> I think I'm going to take the approach outlined by
> Dave Carnell for doing both sides at once. Has
> anyone had experience with this method? Reading the
> instructions for Building Toto as well as the instant
> boat books it seems the recommendation is to apply the
> butt joint (in both cases using wood instead of
> figerglass) prior to cutting out the pieces. I'm
> concerned that if I cut out the pieces prior to
> joinin them together that I'll have alignment problems
> when making the joint.
>
> Perhaps I'm having butt joint anxiety??
>
Hi all,
I'm just starting a Michalak Toto and have a question
regarding fiberglass butt joints.
I think I'm going to take the approach outlined by
Dave Carnell for doing both sides at once. Has
anyone had experience with this method? Reading the
instructions for Building Toto as well as the instant
boat books it seems the recommendation is to apply the
butt joint (in both cases using wood instead of
figerglass) prior to cutting out the pieces. I'm
concerned that if I cut out the pieces prior to
joinin them together that I'll have alignment problems
when making the joint.
Perhaps I'm having butt joint anxiety??
Thanks,
Bill
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I'm just starting a Michalak Toto and have a question
regarding fiberglass butt joints.
I think I'm going to take the approach outlined by
Dave Carnell for doing both sides at once. Has
anyone had experience with this method? Reading the
instructions for Building Toto as well as the instant
boat books it seems the recommendation is to apply the
butt joint (in both cases using wood instead of
figerglass) prior to cutting out the pieces. I'm
concerned that if I cut out the pieces prior to
joinin them together that I'll have alignment problems
when making the joint.
Perhaps I'm having butt joint anxiety??
Thanks,
Bill
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.
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