Re: Windsprint questions

Thanks for the advice, guys. I am going to finish the basic boat, keeping my side decks and increased forward decking, lashing in large flotation bags, and adding a drain hole in the centerboard case (which is centrally located on this version). I'll test her out for what remains of the season, and contemplate more serious modifications (permanent watertight chambers), for next season. I am already used to mizzen, main, and jib on my proa, and I will also try this combination on the windsprint (94 square feet, down fairly low, and it might sail on main and mizzen for reduced area). -- best -- Wade
Wade:

The side and end decks would be a good thing. I've got flotation bags in bow and stern, and would deck and seal everything between the thwarts if I was going to do more work. Side decks would sure help the butt for hiking out in any wind. Hike you must. Side decks would give you significantly more heel room.

My other use for the boat is for flyfishing and floating on the Delaware. I used to guide whitewater trips and have run the river's biggest drop in many conditions. At relatively high water last year, my son and his buddy were simple swamped in a canoe. I took on no water. Waves are good. If an open canoe with an ama can handle the chop, windsprint can--its a modified dory, after all--though oars would be safer than sail.

Daggerboard size is fine, just keep sail plan balanced. I can't speak to handling of balance lug because I designed a sprit-boom sprit sail, 93sf, with reefing options I have never used. I think the balance lug would be a better sail in most conditions because this is REALLY a single handed boat, and the rigging and reefing is much easier than what I have. For that reason, a mizzen would add complications.

Have fun!
--Matthew
I grew up sailing racing dinghies and rarely reefed. If we capsized, we simply righted the boat and sailed out from under the water, utilizing the massive amounts of built-in flotation and excellent bailers. What a surprise it was when my Windsprint swamped some distance from shore and was completely impossible to bail! Fortunately, a friendly local was happening by and offered a tow. I sold the boat shortly afterward.

If I had such a boat again, I would definitely give her generous decks and put lots of flotation under them: flotation in the ends (as my boat had), because of the sheer, leaves the middle of the boat awash! I also found that the daggerboard case being open to the side of the hull meant that there was that much less buoyancy on that side of the boat when heeled — possibly contributing to my swamping. I would keep the board off center, but put it in a proper case.

Good luck with your new boat, Wade.

All the best,
Eric
-------


On 10-08-16 10:19 AM, wtarzia wrote:
Hello -- I was just given an unfinished Windsprint, which I am hoping to have in the water before winter. It came with carbon spars (!) and new sail, the 114 square foot one according to plans. I am used to sailing a small outrigger canoe along the coast near New Haven, CT, so I am curious as to what to expect from this small double-ender sharpie. My only other sailing experience has been in a 11 LOD foot Lowell semi-dory.

I realize that some questions are beaten to death on a forum, so if you feel it is better to refer me to previous excellent posts (their approximate date or exact number if possible) on the Windsprint, I understand (or, off-list replies are welcome). I will continue on to my questions in any event.

The general question is of course, "Has this boat generally proved to be worth having and sailing? What can I expect?" Assume I have a few years of casual sailing experience. Of course I intend no open-water crossing, but even so, Long Island Sound gets surprisingly rough for small sailboats. More specifically:

(1) The sail seems very big. It would be great in the frequent light New England winds, but it seems anything over 5 mph might lead to frequent capsize. Correct me if I'm wrong. Yes, it has reef points -- does the sail keep any useful windward-going shape with those reefs? If not, I would rather carry my 54 sf lug and just raise that.

I tried the 114 balanced lug on my 16 foot outrigger canoe (wisely, on a lake with its flat water), and in windspeeds regular 9, and frequent gusts between 16 and 23, it was a real handful, flying me up to 11 knots and almost driving my ama (float hull) under on close reaches. Don't get me wrong, I loved the 3 hour play time, but for longer periods on choppy coastal water.... I don't know. My outrigger has an ~7 foot beam, so I can only imagine how a Windsprint might behave. I am planning to try out my 54 square foot lug sail on the Windsprint, and plan to add a step aft for a jib-headed mizzen sail of 20 square feet: 74 square feet set lower than the design sail and mast seem better. I could still roll up and the big sail for zephyrs. So....any experiences/advice concerning use of different/smaller sail rigs?

(2) The original plans had the off-center dagger board. The builder of this one opted for an on-center centerboard with a wide thwart across it. I assume this should have no effect on sailing (might even improve sailing?). Is the plan size of the daggerboard enough? Seems a tad small to me (less than 3% of design sail area).

(3) I am adding ~ 6-inch wide side-decks (inside those heavy, wide gunwales) to keep some water out when heeled and to allow me to sit on WW gunwale comfortably, since sedate reclining while sitting on the bottom of this boat does not seem to the best method if there is any sail area on this boat. Opinions? Is this a rare/common design modification? (Also adding fore deck up to the mast step, and aft deck up to the cross-beam there that is on the plans).

(4) Perhaps I should have taken this time to build the side decks as water-tight chambers, but I am trying to actually sail rather than build this summer. Still might do so as a winter project, but for now I intend on stuffing large sections of the unused interior of the boat with slabs of Dow foam inside large nylon laundry bags. Has anyone experience with strategic placement of capsize-recovery foam?

(5) Any other comments appreciated, or answers to questions I should have asked. -- thanks -- Wade
Wade,

 I've used my own Windsprint as a platform for electric power only, but hope some of this helps.

1. An advantage of the Balanced Lug is that the center of effort doesn't change much when reefed, so will keep about the same moderate weather helm.

2. Philip Bolger noted once that, "Contrary to popular belief"  less sail requires more leeboard. Using your smaller rig could mean a bigger board, particularly if you double the boats weight with improvements; not a better match. On the other hand, a similar board is used in a variety of boats that use the 60 sq. ft. 'Instant Boat Sail.' 

4.The ends of my boat are decked over containing about 360 pounds worth of flotation to float boat and batteries level when swamped. The general consensus, received wisdom, common knowledge, ancient wisdom (take your pick) is that flotation high in the ends helps most in a capsize. The Windsprint's ends aren't as high as some, but are rockered enough to keep the boat unstable upside down. You might find something useful here from Jim Michalak.


Upright, it doesn't take very large waves to start tap, tap, taping against the hull. I often cruise comfortably heeled over. This helps with my own important wetted surface and dampens the effect of power boat wakes slapping the bottom forward. 

What a nice gift! You can't go wrong.
Mark

On Aug 16, 2010, at 10:19 AM, wtarzia wrote:

 

Hello -- I was just given an unfinished Windsprint, which I am hoping to have in the water before winter. It came with carbon spars (!) and new sail, the 114 square foot one according to plans. I am used to sailing a small outrigger canoe along the coast near New Haven, CT, so I am curious as to what to expect from this small double-ender sharpie. My only other sailing experience has been in a 11 LOD foot Lowell semi-dory.

I realize that some questions are beaten to death on a forum, so if you feel it is better to refer me to previous excellent posts (their approximate date or exact number if possible) on the Windsprint, I understand (or, off-list replies are welcome). I will continue on to my questions in any event.

The general question is of course, "Has this boat generally proved to be worth having and sailing? What can I expect?" Assume I have a few years of casual sailing experience. Of course I intend no open-water crossing, but even so, Long Island Sound gets surprisingly rough for small sailboats. More specifically:

(1) The sail seems very big. It would be great in the frequent light New England winds, but it seems anything over 5 mph might lead to frequent capsize. Correct me if I'm wrong. Yes, it has reef points -- does the sail keep any useful windward-going shape with those reefs? If not, I would rather carry my 54 sf lug and just raise that.

I tried the 114 balanced lug on my 16 foot outrigger canoe (wisely, on a lake with its flat water), and in windspeeds regular 9, and frequent gusts between 16 and 23, it was a real handful, flying me up to 11 knots and almost driving my ama (float hull) under on close reaches. Don't get me wrong, I loved the 3 hour play time, but for longer periods on choppy coastal water.... I don't know. My outrigger has an ~7 foot beam, so I can only imagine how a Windsprint might behave. I am planning to try out my 54 square foot lug sail on the Windsprint, and plan to add a step aft for a jib-headed mizzen sail of 20 square feet: 74 square feet set lower than the design sail and mast seem better. I could still roll up and the big sail for zephyrs. So....any experiences/advice concerning use of different/smaller sail rigs?

(2) The original plans had the off-center dagger board. The builder of this one opted for an on-center centerboard with a wide thwart across it. I assume this should have no effect on sailing (might even improve sailing?). Is the plan size of the daggerboard enough? Seems a tad small to me (less than 3% of design sail area).

(3) I am adding ~ 6-inch wide side-decks (inside those heavy, wide gunwales) to keep some water out when heeled and to allow me to sit on WW gunwale comfortably, since sedate reclining while sitting on the bottom of this boat does not seem to the best method if there is any sail area on this boat. Opinions? Is this a rare/common design modification? (Also adding fore deck up to the mast step, and aft deck up to the cross-beam there that is on the plans).

(4) Perhaps I should have taken this time to build the side decks as water-tight chambers, but I am trying to actually sail rather than build this summer. Still might do so as a winter project, but for now I intend on stuffing large sections of the unused interior of the boat with slabs of Dow foam inside large nylon laundry bags. Has anyone experience with strategic placement of capsize-recovery foam?

(5) Any other comments appreciated, or answers to questions I should have asked. -- thanks -- Wade


Harry:

Oh, it's all that, for sure! Brent Benson of Benson Sails
(http://bensonsails.com/)in Coopersburg, PA did a great job on it. I
don't at all remember how I got his name and address, but I'm very happy
with the sail he cut. I did have to send it back to get a second set of
reef points -- he mostly makes (or made at that time) Lightening sails
for racing and I had the impression that the thought of reducing sail
(v. getting some more crew and going really fast) was not the first to
come to his mind. He talked me into a fully-battened sail, and I think
that was a good decision.

Patrick

On 08/17/2010 12:49 AM, Harry James wrote:
> That looks like a well cut powerful sail.
>
> HJ
>
> Patrick Crockett wrote:
>
>> points and use the second frequently. There are some photos at
>>http://www.patrickcrockett.com/boatsand at
>>http://www.flickr.com/photos/patricks_photos/sets/72157600330106529/--
>> unfortunately, only one photo double reefed (on the Flickr site). You
>> can see that the second reef eats up more than half of the sail area.
>>
>>
That looks like a well cut powerful sail.

HJ

Patrick Crockett wrote:
> Wade:
>
> Windsprint is, indeed, worth having and sailing. It requires a bit of
> agility and quick response to shifting winds, due to the large sail, low
> freeboard, and lack of side decks. And long boom.
>
> 1. The sail is big. With a single 250 lb. adult in the boat, I typically
> sail reefed in any but the lightest winds. I have two setts of reef
> points and use the second frequently. There are some photos at
>http://www.patrickcrockett.com/boatsand at
>http://www.flickr.com/photos/patricks_photos/sets/72157600330106529/--
> unfortunately, only one photo double reefed (on the Flickr site). You
> can see that the second reef eats up more than half of the sail area.
>
>
>
Wade:

Windsprint is, indeed, worth having and sailing. It requires a bit of
agility and quick response to shifting winds, due to the large sail, low
freeboard, and lack of side decks. And long boom.

1. The sail is big. With a single 250 lb. adult in the boat, I typically
sail reefed in any but the lightest winds. I have two setts of reef
points and use the second frequently. There are some photos at
http://www.patrickcrockett.com/boatsand at
http://www.flickr.com/photos/patricks_photos/sets/72157600330106529/--
unfortunately, only one photo double reefed (on the Flickr site). You
can see that the second reef eats up more than half of the sail area.

2. Moving the dagger board to the center of the boat probably will not
have a noticeable impact on performance either way. The board is plenty
big enough. Having a daggerboard is annoying in North Carolina waters
which tend to shoal rapidly and often. I'm always running aground and
that's a hassle with a daggerboard, especially singlehanding. Its too
bad the builder of your boat moved the board to the center -- the
enormous open area as designed is a definite plus for the boat. I can
pitch a one-man tent inside mine and camp out in the boat. On a day with
low wind I can sprawl out my 6'2.5" frame any which way. I never knock
my shins on a centerboard trunk or thwart when tacking.

3. Side decks might be a good thing. I definitely ship water when I have
failed to reef as soon as I should, and getting a few waves in is enough
to cause serious problems (sometimes leading to capsize). On the other
hand, having side decks will definitely require you to sit up on the
side with any wind, and to have hiking straps. And they will make the
interior smaller.

4. I haven't yet found a good floatation plan. I recently replaced the
foam blocks I had in the ends with airtight chambers, but I haven't
swamped the boat yet to see if they work better than the blocks. My
problem has been that the boat fills with water as it goes over and
stays full as I right it, so even with flotation in the ends it is so
low in the water that I cannot bail it out without it tipping a few
degrees in the waves and refilling. I also cut a hole in the daggerboard
trunk and installed an 8" inspection port, and I hope that the water
egress combined with the airtight chambers will suffice for me to
self-rescue. But I haven't had an opportunity to try it out yet. Of
course, I didn't make these changes in the first 13 years of sailing the
boat, so you can see that capsizing really hasn't been a major issue for me.

5. When sailing downwind, especially if overpowered, be sure to keep
crew weight as far back in the boat as possible. Otherwise waves will
slap you around and capsize is likely. And remember the adage, "The time
to reef is the first time you wonder if you should." With Windsprint's
big sail, you really need to reef before the first time you wonder about it.

Patrick

On 08/16/2010 01:19 PM, wtarzia wrote:
> The general question is of course, "Has this boat generally proved to be worth having and sailing? What can I expect?" Assume I have a few years of casual sailing experience. Of course I intend no open-water crossing, but even so, Long Island Sound gets surprisingly rough for small sailboats. More specifically:
>
> (1) The sail seems very big. It would be great in the frequent light New England winds, but it seems anything over 5 mph might lead to frequent capsize. Correct me if I'm wrong. Yes, it has reef points -- does the sail keep any useful windward-going shape with those reefs? If not, I would rather carry my 54 sf lug and just raise that.
>
> I tried the 114 balanced lug on my 16 foot outrigger canoe (wisely, on a lake with its flat water), and in windspeeds regular 9, and frequent gusts between 16 and 23, it was a real handful, flying me up to 11 knots and almost driving my ama (float hull) under on close reaches. Don't get me wrong, I loved the 3 hour play time, but for longer periods on choppy coastal water.... I don't know. My outrigger has an ~7 foot beam, so I can only imagine how a Windsprint might behave. I am planning to try out my 54 square foot lug sail on the Windsprint, and plan to add a step aft for a jib-headed mizzen sail of 20 square feet: 74 square feet set lower than the design sail and mast seem better. I could still roll up and the big sail for zephyrs. So....any experiences/advice concerning use of different/smaller sail rigs?
>
> (2) The original plans had the off-center dagger board. The builder of this one opted for an on-center centerboard with a wide thwart across it. I assume this should have no effect on sailing (might even improve sailing?). Is the plan size of the daggerboard enough? Seems a tad small to me (less than 3% of design sail area).
>
> (3) I am adding ~ 6-inch wide side-decks (inside those heavy, wide gunwales) to keep some water out when heeled and to allow me to sit on WW gunwale comfortably, since sedate reclining while sitting on the bottom of this boat does not seem to the best method if there is any sail area on this boat. Opinions? Is this a rare/common design modification? (Also adding fore deck up to the mast step, and aft deck up to the cross-beam there that is on the plans).
>
> (4) Perhaps I should have taken this time to build the side decks as water-tight chambers, but I am trying to actually sail rather than build this summer. Still might do so as a winter project, but for now I intend on stuffing large sections of the unused interior of the boat with slabs of Dow foam inside large nylon laundry bags. Has anyone experience with strategic placement of capsize-recovery foam?
>
> (5) Any other comments appreciated, or answers to questions I should have asked. -- thanks -- Wade
>
>
Hello -- I was just given an unfinished Windsprint, which I am hoping to have in the water before winter. It came with carbon spars (!) and new sail, the 114 square foot one according to plans. I am used to sailing a small outrigger canoe along the coast near New Haven, CT, so I am curious as to what to expect from this small double-ender sharpie. My only other sailing experience has been in a 11 LOD foot Lowell semi-dory.

I realize that some questions are beaten to death on a forum, so if you feel it is better to refer me to previous excellent posts (their approximate date or exact number if possible) on the Windsprint, I understand (or, off-list replies are welcome). I will continue on to my questions in any event.

The general question is of course, "Has this boat generally proved to be worth having and sailing? What can I expect?" Assume I have a few years of casual sailing experience. Of course I intend no open-water crossing, but even so, Long Island Sound gets surprisingly rough for small sailboats. More specifically:

(1) The sail seems very big. It would be great in the frequent light New England winds, but it seems anything over 5 mph might lead to frequent capsize. Correct me if I'm wrong. Yes, it has reef points -- does the sail keep any useful windward-going shape with those reefs? If not, I would rather carry my 54 sf lug and just raise that.

I tried the 114 balanced lug on my 16 foot outrigger canoe (wisely, on a lake with its flat water), and in windspeeds regular 9, and frequent gusts between 16 and 23, it was a real handful, flying me up to 11 knots and almost driving my ama (float hull) under on close reaches. Don't get me wrong, I loved the 3 hour play time, but for longer periods on choppy coastal water.... I don't know. My outrigger has an ~7 foot beam, so I can only imagine how a Windsprint might behave. I am planning to try out my 54 square foot lug sail on the Windsprint, and plan to add a step aft for a jib-headed mizzen sail of 20 square feet: 74 square feet set lower than the design sail and mast seem better. I could still roll up and the big sail for zephyrs. So....any experiences/advice concerning use of different/smaller sail rigs?

(2) The original plans had the off-center dagger board. The builder of this one opted for an on-center centerboard with a wide thwart across it. I assume this should have no effect on sailing (might even improve sailing?). Is the plan size of the daggerboard enough? Seems a tad small to me (less than 3% of design sail area).

(3) I am adding ~ 6-inch wide side-decks (inside those heavy, wide gunwales) to keep some water out when heeled and to allow me to sit on WW gunwale comfortably, since sedate reclining while sitting on the bottom of this boat does not seem to the best method if there is any sail area on this boat. Opinions? Is this a rare/common design modification? (Also adding fore deck up to the mast step, and aft deck up to the cross-beam there that is on the plans).

(4) Perhaps I should have taken this time to build the side decks as water-tight chambers, but I am trying to actually sail rather than build this summer. Still might do so as a winter project, but for now I intend on stuffing large sections of the unused interior of the boat with slabs of Dow foam inside large nylon laundry bags. Has anyone experience with strategic placement of capsize-recovery foam?

(5) Any other comments appreciated, or answers to questions I should have asked. -- thanks -- Wade