Re: New Teal project, questions

Here's a cheap alternative for rigging my Teal with a smaller and handier sail...an Optimist dinghy training sail, just $90 brand new!

<http://www.apsltd.com/c-2730-optimistsails.aspx>

I can adjust the mast placement as needed since I have not yet installed the partner and mast step (or the bottom for that matter).

Thoughts?

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Matthew L" <owlnmole@...> wrote:

>
> --Has anyone tried hanging the rudder directly on the sternpost
> rather than using the long skeg as drawn? That skeg looks
> awfully prone to damage as drawn.

Can try the zephyr/jinni rudder profile. guess the teal skeg is for some tracking when rowed and without it that slanted rudder would collect weed and stuff.

> (sailing off the beach through light surf)

!!!

One adult or two smallish kids a teal overload except on the glassy.
--- So a lashed on outrigger? Gets an extra ply box or PVC pipe float tank there, helps the reboarding, and good with the 59er sail when windy not glassy.

Hmm, I may have a candidate for less "exciting" and more portable rig for Teal if I assume that if it's not blowing, then I'll be rowing: the rig from PCB's little Eeek! sailing
canoe.

--Sprit-boom leg-o'-mutton
--9' 8" x 9' 11" x 5' 1"
--Just 24 sq ft
--11' 6" mast, 6' boom

It would be a dog in light air, I admit, but seen as a back-up rig for sailing a rowboat when conditions are right, it might work.

Here's a pic and nice little article about Eeek! by a builder/owner:
<http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?72365-Eeek!-A-Phil-Bolger-Sailing-Canoe>.

Thoughts?

> I didn't like that skeg sticking out. It would be better to have it
> pivot per Michalak. While you are at it also fit his pivoting
> leeboard. That will ease use in shallow spots as when beaching. I
> busted the fingers on my leeboard once.

I busted the fingers once, too (only one, actually). I set the hardware
holding the fingers into a hole, and I made the whole too big. I used
red oak for the fingers, and that was fine, but I weakened it too much.

I replaced it with a minimally drilled douglas fir finger, and it worked
fine.

You might consider the Michalak alternative. It's tweakier work, and I
needs a lot of consideration to make it handsome, but it can be done.

It also offers you a chance to move the ceter of lateral resistance on
the boat (by allowing the board to angle back and up a bit), and this
can be useful. On a dead run, you could pull it up completely and scoot
a little faster (and wilder).

-Chris

>> I've made some more progress, see the pics here
> at<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/photos/album/1392268644/pic/list>.

Looks pretty good. The boat can deviate a tad here or there with no
serious consequence (beyond aesthetics). Those gunwales will smooth out
your sheer, so take your time and make sure that they are symmetric and
not distorted by ropes, clamps, straps, etc.

>> Another question...I am considering an alternative rig that would
> allow the spars to fit inside the boat, more for storage and transport
> than any other reason. Anyone have any ideas or experience with
> alternative rigs, preferably "plug-and-play" replacements for the
> standard Bolger/Payson 59 sq ft rig. Maybe a boomless spritsail?

The standard Bolger rig has a few advantages:

One, the boat is designed around it, and since we're talking leeboards,
your center of effort must not be moved fore or aft (even a little bit
will have significant consequences).

Two, the sail can be purchased properly made, for not too much money. I
got mine from Bohndell--perfectly good sail.

Three, all of the dimensions and "how to" is available to you in the
Payson's book and the Bolger plans. Designing your own is a difficult
thing to do.

Four, If you're building according to plan, it's not hard to keep the
spars and sail in/on the boat. One lashes the equipment to the thwarts
(one forward, one aft), and there's little or no problems.


You may think I'm "Mr. Status Quo" but really, I'm not. I certainly
suggest that Bolger is a better designer than, well, all of us. But you
have to have a good reason to deviate from plans, and you have to be
prepared for the consequences of deviation.

I have deviated from plans, and on occasion check with the designer to
make sure it's OK (I put in a frame in place of a thwart in a
skiff--designer concurred, boat has been fine).

OK, actually, I *am* Prof. Status Quo, in that I've been publishing
psychological work on how people rather unthinkingly judge the status
quo to be better than its alternatives, but as a boatbuilder, I'm all
for innovation.

>--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Matthew L" <owlnmole@...> wrote:
>
> I do have a few questions for those who have built or sailed Teal:
>
> --Has anyone tried hanging the rudder directly on the sternpost >rather than using the long skeg as drawn? That skeg looks awfully >prone to damage as drawn.
>

I cut away the aft sides and fitted a wedge transom with just a little rake, then redesigned the rudder to sweep back slightly below the bottom. I did'nt like that skeg sticking out. It would be better to have it pivot per Michalak.
While you are at it also fit his pivoting leeboard. That will ease use in shallow spots as when beaching. I busted the fingers on my leeboard once.

>
> --Does anyone have any thoughts on flotation options other than >urethane foam (unobtainable here and to big to ship) or polystyrene >(also not easy to find)? I am thinking of kayak or dingy floatation >bags or maybe a bunch of empty water bottles corralled with netting.
>

I think air chambers fore and aft with deck plates would serve well.
---
As to sail, I have used the designed LOM. Great fun but prepare to shift weight if the wind pipes up. Also used a spritsail with boom of about 50 SF; This was quite adequate for a more casual sail. All done solo.


Joe T

Thanks, Chris, for the feedback. I will likely go with the skeg as drawn and if I do mess around with a double paddle I'll let everyone know how it works out. I was thinking I might kneel on a lifejacket for going in and out of the beach surf.

I've made some more progress, see the pics here at <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/photos/album/1392268644/pic/list>.

I had a devil of a time with the temporary frames, thing just weren't lining up. In the end I used rope and bungee cords to pull the ends in temporarily, glued and nailed the stem and sternposts and then removed the ropes letting the sides take their natural shape.

It seems to have worked out fine...looking quite like a boat!

Another question...I am considering an alternative rig that would allow the spars to fit inside the boat, more for storage and transport than any other reason. Anyone have any ideas or experience with alternative rigs, preferably "plug-and-play" replacements for the standard Bolger/Payson 59 sq ft rig. Maybe a boomless spritsail?

Cheers.

Matthew

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Chris Crandall <crandall@...> wrote:
>
> > --Has anyone tried hanging the rudder directly on the sternpost
> > rather than using the long skeg as drawn? That skeg looks awfully
> > prone to damage as drawn.
>
> Yes, you can do this. It works OK, I'm told--I made the skeg. My skeg is
> in no way prone to damage; it's large and thick able to take the ground
> just fine.
>
> If you do hang it onto the stern post, your rudder will stall some--it
> will act as a break a bit because as you turn, instead of rotating
> around a vertical axis, the axis is tilted back, and the rear of the
> rudder will move not in a left-right arc, but also in an upward arc (as
> you move away from center). It becomes a scoop/brake instead of a foil.
> It still works, but not as well.
>
>
> > --Has anyone tried paddling the boat with a single or double paddle,
> > seated or kneeling, rather than rowing? For the type of use I expect
> > it to see here in Morocco (sailing off the beach through light surf)
> > paddling looking forward seems like a better option.
>
> I'm sure it's possible, but the sides are pretty high for that.
> Double-paddles are best when the gunwale is substantially lower than
> your armpit--not the case in the Teal. And, if you get the high, you'll
> find the boat as tender as a papaya-marinated filet.
>
> -Chris
>

Thanks, Bruce, you've inspired lots of folks with your many projects, so I am flattered that I could return the favor.

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <hallman@...> wrote:
>
> > Hi ho, all!
> >
> > I haven't been very active in this group for quite some time but some of you may remember me from several years ago or may know my web pages on my Brick, Yellow Leaf, June Bug and Tortoise projects <http://sites.google.com/site/molepages/home>. A photo of my wife and me in our Brick also figured prominently in PCB's New York Times obit.
>
>
> Thanks for that webpage about Yellow Leaf, it inspired me to build one!
>

> --Has anyone tried hanging the rudder directly on the sternpost
> rather than using the long skeg as drawn? That skeg looks awfully
> prone to damage as drawn.

Yes, you can do this. It works OK, I'm told--I made the skeg. My skeg is
in no way prone to damage; it's large and thick able to take the ground
just fine.

If you do hang it onto the stern post, your rudder will stall some--it
will act as a break a bit because as you turn, instead of rotating
around a vertical axis, the axis is tilted back, and the rear of the
rudder will move not in a left-right arc, but also in an upward arc (as
you move away from center). It becomes a scoop/brake instead of a foil.
It still works, but not as well.

> --Has anyone tried paddling the boat with a single or double paddle,
> seated or kneeling, rather than rowing? For the type of use I expect
> it to see here in Morocco (sailing off the beach through light surf)
> paddling looking forward seems like a better option.

I'm sure it's possible, but the sides are pretty high for that.
Double-paddles are best when the gunwale is substantially lower than
your armpit--not the case in the Teal. And, if you get the high, you'll
find the boat as tender as a papaya-marinated filet.

-Chris

> Hi ho, all!
>
> I haven't been very active in this group for quite some time but some of you may remember me from several years ago or may know my web pages on my Brick, Yellow Leaf, June Bug and Tortoise projects <http://sites.google.com/site/molepages/home>. A photo of my wife and me in our Brick also figured prominently in PCB's New York Times obit.

Thanks for that webpage about Yellow Leaf, it inspired me to build one!

Hi ho, all!

I haven't been very active in this group for quite some time but some of you may remember me from several years ago or may know my web pages on my Brick, Yellow Leaf, June Bug and Tortoise projects <http://sites.google.com/site/molepages/home>. A photo of my wife and me in our Brick also figured prominently in PCB's New York Times obit.

In any case, the boatbuilding bug has bitten again and I have started a Teal <http://instantboats.com/teal.htm> to have a little boat to mess about in with the kids. Cheap plywood, mystery lumber, nothing fancy, though I do have some Marinepoxy resin on hand so I've gone with Payson fiberglass butt joints and I'm going to do the bottom tack-and-tape to eliminate the chine logs altogether. I've uploaded a few pics of my progress so far in the "Photos" section in an album titled "Matthew's Teal project."

I do have a few questions for those who have built or sailed Teal:

--Has anyone tried hanging the rudder directly on the sternpost rather than using the long skeg as drawn? That skeg looks awfully prone to damage as drawn.

--Has anyone tried paddling the boat with a single or double paddle, seated or kneeling, rather than rowing? For the type of use I expect it to see here in Morocco (sailing off the beach through light surf) paddling looking forward seems like a better option.

--Does anyone have any thoughts on flotation options other than urethane foam (unobtainable here and to big to ship) or polystyrene (also not easy to find)? I am thinking of kayak or dingy floatation bags or maybe a bunch of empty water bottles corralled with netting.

Cheers and regards to all,

Matthew

-------
Matthew William Long
Rabat, Morocco
www.cluttonfred.info