RE: [bolger] Re:Bolger Plans Resellers (was Re: Bolger "Pivoquor")

Some PB&F comment on the matter is indexed at

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/links/Bolger_on_Bolger_001013733773/

First, a little from December 1999 concerning the DFWB rip:

" - CSD (CSB?!) are the de facto successors to LaRowe with the right on a very few designs to sell - NON-EXCLUSIVELY -, assuming the already minimal royalty payments are met, which has NOT been the case for while.


- DUCKFLAT has in the past dealt with CSD in the fashion we've touched
on in earlier statements. We understand that they are selling
'versions' of our TENNESSEE and WYOMING designs. These versions are
NOT FROM US. They are NOT AUTHORIZED in any way. We draw no royalty
from them. And the name and creativity of Bolger are being 'taken for
a ride'- again. Since we will not pay for OUR plans, modified by
others, we'll likely never see how far they've gone to adulterate the
underlying concept of the two types. Is it ok. to do this? We don't
think we've never been asked!


Why are these people behaving this way? Your guess is as good as ours.


The approach is short-sighted, has in its various
iterations deeply violated Phil's sensibilities, has cost serious
income, and has cost legal fees. We trust that 'world-wide' transparency will reduce the likelihood of
this continuing to any serious degree.


We have spent endless time dealing with inquiries on plans of ours
bought elsewhere. We continue to have our name associated with
fourth-rate copies with our name on it.

IMPORTANT NOTICE:
- THERE HAS NEVER BEEN ANY QUESTION ABOUT Dynamite Payson's INTEGRITY.
- THERE HAS NEVER BEEN ANY QUESTION ABOUT WOODENBOAT's INTEGRITY.

To repeat:
We hold the intellectual right to every design we've ever concocted."
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/message/1250)

From the above it's apparent that DFWB sourced their Bolger copies originally from CSD, not PB&F!!


"- When people sell our plans and go far beyond the already very
generous boundaries of agreements and spirit in violating them, we
finally must state the realities. If some feel uncomfortable about
this, consider the losses in time, money, nerves, creativity these
episodes have caused in this office. And for purposes of this forum,
these are losses to you too."
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/message/1659)

Michael Storer, a former DFWB employee and now business associate, had a try at defending the DFWB rip a couple of years ago on the Instant Boats Message Board. You could look up the thread there. As I recall the thread topic was to do with the Micro. In short his argument was that some deal or other was done way back between the founding DFWB business owner, Robert Ayliffe, and PCB. Robert Ayliffe sold the DFWB business to a "nice" bloke some years ago. (Robert Ayliffe appears to to have ongoing business associations with DFWB.) The "arrangement" for DFWB to copy and sell Bolger plans transfered to the new DFWB owner, he said. The new owner states he has a right to copy and sell Bolger plans, and that PCB at eighty odd years of age and tired of rip offs should be the one to contact him in Australia, he said. Apparently, Michael Storer knows nothing of the existence of any written formal contract between PCB and DFWB. He was an employee and not party to any dealings. He understands that the arrangement was between Robert Ayliffe and PCB - not CSD! (Note: DFWB Bolger plans marketing matter consists largely of copies of CSD catalogue material. Take a look at their "A Book Of Dreams" for instance!) If PCB were to contact the new "decent" owner of DFWB and raise the issue with him then Michael Storer was sure they would look into the matter. However, the onus was on eighty year old PCB on the other side of the world, not the decent second DFWB owner who had a right to continue to sell Bolger plans based on past practice, and his acquired, and apparently at best hearsay deal with Bolger. He was aware of the claims that there was never any deal with PB&F, but until Phil Bolger took up the issue formally with him the "honest" new DFWB owner would continue with the status quo. DFWB would not be contacting PB&F to establish the integrity of the "deal".

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Mark Albanese <marka97203@...> wrote:
>
> Perhaps I'm wrong, David. Things may have changed, but I recall the
> message long ago from Philip Bolger himself in this forum stating
> emphatically that Payson was the only legitimate alternative supplier.
>
> And then this comment, also here, from July, 2009
> > PCB plans from PB&F and Dynamite Payson only please. Continue the
> > boycott. Susanne Altenburger
>
> Mark
>
> On Sep 24, 2010, at 6:48 AM, David wrote:
>
> > Mark,
> >
> > The way I understand the situation is that there is only one firm
> > that has a dispute with PB&Friends. That is Common Sense.
> >
> > Duck Flats, AFIK, is a perfectly reputable Australian firm - run by
> > a bunch of quite nice fellows.
> >
> > Perhaps someone can correct me if there's something I've missed.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > David G
> > Harbor Woodworks
> >
> > *
>

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Stromski <j.stromski@...> wrote:

>
> Do you have plans? How much and what thicknesses of plywood are called for?
>

all Plywood is 3/8th's. The plans don't state how many sheets.

Perhaps I'm wrong, David. Things may have changed, but I recall the message long ago from Philip Bolger himself in this forum stating emphatically that Payson was the only legitimate alternative supplier.

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Joe Stromski <j.stromski@...> wrote:

>
> Anyone have a bill of materials for what it takes to build a Bolger
> Tennessee?
>
> thanks,
> Joe
>

I will be building one this fall and winter.

Mark,

The way I understand the situation is that there is only one firm that has a dispute with PB&Friends. That is Common Sense.

Duck Flats, AFIK, is a perfectly reputable Australian firm - run by a bunch of quite nice fellows.

Perhaps someone can correct me if there's something I've missed.

Cheers,
David G
Harbor Woodworks

***********************

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Mark Albanese <marka97203@...> wrote:
>
> Saw this listed at Duck Flat Wooden Boats for $214 AUD. ( I know enuf
> never to purchase PB&F plans from them.)
>
> But any clues to what this boat is like?
> The tantalizing name does not turn up in any dictionary I've got either.
>
> Mark
>

Saw this listed at Duck Flat Wooden Boats for $214 AUD. ( I know enuf
never to purchase PB&F plans from them.)

But any clues to what this boat is like?
The tantalizing name does not turn up in any dictionary I've got either.

Mark

Anyone have a bill of materials for what it takes to build a Bolger
Tennessee?

thanks,
Joe