Re: Did I miss anybody with e-mail requests ?
Nels,
Of course stock plans should be mailed in a reasonable amount of time if the business is able to. For the past year it has not been able to.
As for commissions. Ask anyone who has dealt with an artist. Even with the best of intentions an artist cannot necessarily finish commissions in the order they are received. Some are begun with an obsessive inspiration are not a full enough expression to carry to completion. If you think it is any less frustrating to the artist than to the person who has commissioned the art you are wrong. Committing to a themed gallery show when the work is not already existent, is a sure way to disaster, usually fudging to get by and have something to fill the space.
A Mr. Cunningham asked Phil to design the AS-29 quite a few years before Phil was inspired to design the AS-29. At least the words Cunningham wrote were nearly identical to my own and the AS-29 is the boat I was going to ask Phil to design. Phil's response in SBJ was classic Phil, and floored me. ROGUE's interior is in function and many respects layout nearly identical to AS-29. What is to get mad about? Other things were inspiring Phil, and some of those boats have been built and have given people pleasure. Phil's design work has inspired other designers. I felt mighty discouraged reading Phil's response to Mr. Cunningham, but I certainly didn't feel any animosity. Later I felt irony that he did design the AS-29, but anger, no.
My response was to order more design books, and read and re-read again all the books I had. In the end I wanted a Bolger boat, and because he wouldn't design the boat I wanted, I radically modified a Bolger hull form and liberally drew from a whole boat load of Bolger ideas in my making the boat I wanted.
The people who are not getting their designs fast enough can stop the process and try another designer. Can try their own hand and show their ideas to perhaps inspire results. Or they can be patient. In his books Phil shows at least on boat design that did not work because of too much effort and too little inspiration, and though commissioned and no doubt paid for, was never built.
As for character, there is an award winning power boat design that Phil discouraged a potential buyer from pursuing because Phil did not think the boat would be a good investment. Phil lost a commission for a design. And the waters were not graced with an inspired design.
Eric
Of course stock plans should be mailed in a reasonable amount of time if the business is able to. For the past year it has not been able to.
As for commissions. Ask anyone who has dealt with an artist. Even with the best of intentions an artist cannot necessarily finish commissions in the order they are received. Some are begun with an obsessive inspiration are not a full enough expression to carry to completion. If you think it is any less frustrating to the artist than to the person who has commissioned the art you are wrong. Committing to a themed gallery show when the work is not already existent, is a sure way to disaster, usually fudging to get by and have something to fill the space.
A Mr. Cunningham asked Phil to design the AS-29 quite a few years before Phil was inspired to design the AS-29. At least the words Cunningham wrote were nearly identical to my own and the AS-29 is the boat I was going to ask Phil to design. Phil's response in SBJ was classic Phil, and floored me. ROGUE's interior is in function and many respects layout nearly identical to AS-29. What is to get mad about? Other things were inspiring Phil, and some of those boats have been built and have given people pleasure. Phil's design work has inspired other designers. I felt mighty discouraged reading Phil's response to Mr. Cunningham, but I certainly didn't feel any animosity. Later I felt irony that he did design the AS-29, but anger, no.
My response was to order more design books, and read and re-read again all the books I had. In the end I wanted a Bolger boat, and because he wouldn't design the boat I wanted, I radically modified a Bolger hull form and liberally drew from a whole boat load of Bolger ideas in my making the boat I wanted.
The people who are not getting their designs fast enough can stop the process and try another designer. Can try their own hand and show their ideas to perhaps inspire results. Or they can be patient. In his books Phil shows at least on boat design that did not work because of too much effort and too little inspiration, and though commissioned and no doubt paid for, was never built.
As for character, there is an award winning power boat design that Phil discouraged a potential buyer from pursuing because Phil did not think the boat would be a good investment. Phil lost a commission for a design. And the waters were not graced with an inspired design.
Eric
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "prairiedog2332" <arvent@...> wrote:
>
> Bruce,
>
> I have to wonder how offering plans for sale in MAIB does not suggest
> some sort of obligation to send them once they are ordered? Or at least
> respond to inquiries about them. Or do you suggest one just send the
> money and hope they show up sometime?
>
> And as for patience, how long until a person might get the feeling they
> are being ignored? Five years? Ten?
>
> I think most of us who have been a devotee of Bolger and SBJ and later
> MAIB for what 20-25 years (including John Kohnen) own or have lusted
> after Mr. Bolger's books (now out of print except for one) are well
> aware of the trials and tribulations of PCB&F. This includes the
> military contract and the devotion to keeping the fishing industry
> viable.
>
> What really bothers some of us is how some commissions jump the queue
> and get completed (Becky Thatcher) and others like the I60 and Auriga
> are ignored to this day!
>
> John Kolb - who has built many Bolger boats is still awaiting his Auriga
> plans and has built the Fast Brick to go with it - which lies useless in
> his shop. Reality is he is getting on in years now and has given up the
> project last I heard.
>
> Nels
>
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <hallman@> wrote:
>
> > The second implies that it is "wrong" that SA is not making the life
> > work of PCB and PB&F more easily available to the public. Actually,
> > she has no obligation that I can see to make those designs available
> > to us. I see nothing wrong with having to wait to get something we
> > don't own. We should be grateful for what we get and try to find more
> > patience.
> >
>
Is this your take on the old SBJ Flat Bottomed Outboard Cruiser? Taking out the front steering station would net about 21'. Can't find the pictures, but would enjoy seeing them in any case.
Mark
On Oct 6, 2010, at 11:09 AM, Chris Crandall wrote:
Work proceeds on my Bolger-inspired power sharpie, the Chico Mendes.
I'll post a few pictures in the files--it's 21 ft long, and I've turned
over the hull twice, entirely by myself. I'm 51 and apparently a
thrill-seeker. Went pretty well both times.
-Chris
1.3. Re: Did I miss anybody with e-mail requests ?
Posted by: "John Kohnen"jhkohnen@...jhkohnen
the Bolger list. I encourage all to disengage and move on to better
subjects.
Work proceeds on my Bolger-inspired power sharpie, the Chico Mendes.
I'll post a few pictures in the files--it's 21 ft long, and I've turned
over the hull twice, entirely by myself. I'm 51 and apparently a
thrill-seeker. Went pretty well both times.
-Chris
Posted by: "John Kohnen"jhkohnen@...jhkohnen
> This is ridiculous... Has anyone else noticed that the instigator of thisJohn is right, this guy is working toward "Aussie Troll of the Year" on
> thread chooses to remain anonymous? Who is this c.ruzer anyway?
the Bolger list. I encourage all to disengage and move on to better
subjects.
Work proceeds on my Bolger-inspired power sharpie, the Chico Mendes.
I'll post a few pictures in the files--it's 21 ft long, and I've turned
over the hull twice, entirely by myself. I'm 51 and apparently a
thrill-seeker. Went pretty well both times.
-Chris
Hello David,
thanks for your interest
in DIABLO GRANDE (Design 603). Plans are available from PB&F for
$100 to build one boat, sent rolled in a tube.
Susanne Altenburger
Pil Bolger&Frends
Susanne Altenburger
Pil Bolger&Frends
66 Atlantic Street
Gloucester, MA 01930
----- Original Message -----From:David McManamaySent:Tuesday, October 05, 2010 6:04 PMSubject:[bolger] Re: Did I miss anybody with e-mail requests ?HI everybody I joined this group to read more about the boats and the peaple who built them.I,ve bought the books and I had a few reservations I was hoping would be answerd here.I want to build a 18 foot Diablo with a small cabin.
is there another site .I can go to for insite into the boats and some fun and fellowship.the whinning and backstabing here is sad
thanks David
Plainfield VT
THATS MUCH BETTER GUYS. THANKYOU
Anybody who takes the time to enjoy life is a wonderfull person
That means boat builders are the best
thanks again
David
Anybody who takes the time to enjoy life is a wonderfull person
That means boat builders are the best
thanks again
David
David, there's 89 threads matching a Diablo Grande search herehttp://instantboats.com/phpBB3/viewforum.php?f=1
7 hits herehttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/Instantboats/
However there's 111 matching hits right where you're reading this! These may have all the info you need, or steer you in the right direction.
I'm vaguely aware of some differing ways the Diablo Grande decks have been done, the motors, and biminis, but am not at all sure a cabin has ever been fitted.
May I suggest you post your query here as the start of a brand new DG thread, and see how it goes?
7 hits herehttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/Instantboats/
However there's 111 matching hits right where you're reading this! These may have all the info you need, or steer you in the right direction.
I'm vaguely aware of some differing ways the Diablo Grande decks have been done, the motors, and biminis, but am not at all sure a cabin has ever been fitted.
May I suggest you post your query here as the start of a brand new DG thread, and see how it goes?
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, David McManamay <mtnstryder1@...> wrote:
>
> HI everybody I joined this group to read more about the boats and the peaple who built them.I,ve bought the books and I had a few reservations I was hoping would be answerd here.I want to build a 18 foot Diablo with a small cabin.
> is there another site .I can go to for insite into the boats and some fun and fellowship.the whinning and backstabing here is sad
> thanks David
> Plainfield VT
>
David,
You might try joining this discussion group.
http://instantboats.com/phpBB3/
Or contacting Dynamite Payson by phone or e-mail directly from his
website for his advice.
http://instantboats.com/contact.htm
He sells the plans for the 15 ft. version and might be able to help you
lengthen it.
Good luck though as he is not that open to changing the plans from my
experience.
Nels
You might try joining this discussion group.
http://instantboats.com/phpBB3/
Or contacting Dynamite Payson by phone or e-mail directly from his
website for his advice.
http://instantboats.com/contact.htm
He sells the plans for the 15 ft. version and might be able to help you
lengthen it.
Good luck though as he is not that open to changing the plans from my
experience.
Nels
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, David McManamay <mtnstryder1@...> wrote:
>
> HI everybody I joined this group to read more about the boats and the
peaple who built them.I,ve bought the books and I had a few reservations
I was hoping would be answerd here.I want to build a 18 foot Diablo with
a small cabin.
> is there another site .I can go to for insite into the boats and some
fun and fellowship.the whinning and backstabing here is sad
> thanks David
> Plainfield VT
>
It saddens me when things get taken out of context. The internet is fantastic but it exposes us to an enormous amount of information which we were previously oblivious to, desperate for or happy without. The main problem is that the quality of most information is impossible to ascertain.
I would never have begun boatbuilding at all if it were not for the internet. I would never have had access to plans or bought books or had all the fun without internet. From Chile I have bought plans and books from Dynamite Payson and boat parts from Duckworks. I have also corresponded by e-mail with Susanne. I bought my first plans from CSB because I had never heard of PB&F or stumbled on this forum.
Susanne openly admits to trouble dealing with correspondence over the last period and I can only sympathise. She does answer e-mail, and quite promptly in my personal experience. This is the way THIS thread started out. I am sure that, if there are genuine complaints, she will do everything possible to sort them too.
I share a love for Phil Bolger's genius, work and writing with many on this forum and have learnt to appreciate the thought process that every little detail includes. I find this forum an interesting and genuinely helpful venue and enjoy seeing the way internet shares knowledge, information and experience. I particularly appreciate Bruce Hallman's contributions.
I have no connection whatsoever with either Duckworks or PB&F. However, to put things in context, I think it is important to note that Chuck and Sandra were on vacation (Lake Powell?) during most of September (I know because I wanted to buy gudgeons and pintles and couldn't). I therefore sincerely doubt they are in any way personally connected with posting or censoring letters in the magazine in September.
As someone who participated in the moderation of another internet group for around 4 years (until most of us got tired of receiving abuse and complaints as it is impossible to please everybody) I can understand well the pain and problems which people like Chuck and Sandra are submitted to.
I would motivate each of us to continue to assume the best of people and continue to enjoy and contribute to Phil's legacy which has generated and will continue to generate a passion in most of us which I would never have imagined.
Let's move on...
David
I would never have begun boatbuilding at all if it were not for the internet. I would never have had access to plans or bought books or had all the fun without internet. From Chile I have bought plans and books from Dynamite Payson and boat parts from Duckworks. I have also corresponded by e-mail with Susanne. I bought my first plans from CSB because I had never heard of PB&F or stumbled on this forum.
Susanne openly admits to trouble dealing with correspondence over the last period and I can only sympathise. She does answer e-mail, and quite promptly in my personal experience. This is the way THIS thread started out. I am sure that, if there are genuine complaints, she will do everything possible to sort them too.
I share a love for Phil Bolger's genius, work and writing with many on this forum and have learnt to appreciate the thought process that every little detail includes. I find this forum an interesting and genuinely helpful venue and enjoy seeing the way internet shares knowledge, information and experience. I particularly appreciate Bruce Hallman's contributions.
I have no connection whatsoever with either Duckworks or PB&F. However, to put things in context, I think it is important to note that Chuck and Sandra were on vacation (Lake Powell?) during most of September (I know because I wanted to buy gudgeons and pintles and couldn't). I therefore sincerely doubt they are in any way personally connected with posting or censoring letters in the magazine in September.
As someone who participated in the moderation of another internet group for around 4 years (until most of us got tired of receiving abuse and complaints as it is impossible to please everybody) I can understand well the pain and problems which people like Chuck and Sandra are submitted to.
I would motivate each of us to continue to assume the best of people and continue to enjoy and contribute to Phil's legacy which has generated and will continue to generate a passion in most of us which I would never have imagined.
Let's move on...
David
HI everybody I joined this group to read more about the boats and the peaple who built them.I,ve bought the books and I had a few reservations I was hoping would be answerd here.I want to build a 18 foot Diablo with a small cabin.
is there another site .I can go to for insite into the boats and some fun and fellowship.the whinning and backstabing here is sad
thanks David
Plainfield VT
is there another site .I can go to for insite into the boats and some fun and fellowship.the whinning and backstabing here is sad
thanks David
Plainfield VT
Hint, hint...let's drop it, folks.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Denis Meier <meier.denis@...> wrote:
>
> This would be a wonderful note to end this thread on. Thank you...
>
> Denis Meier
> Onoway, Alberta
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: prairiedog2332 <arvent@...>
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tue, October 5, 2010 12:23:11 PM
> Subject: [bolger] Re: Did I miss anybody with e-mail requests ?
>
>
> Bruce,
>
> You are a kind and gentle soul and a great inspiration with your work.
>
> To me genius is a gift and intended to be shared.
>
> I am reminded of Mathew5 14-16
>
> Ye are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hid. Neither do
> men light a lamp, and put it under the bushel, but on the stand; and it shineth
> unto all that are in the house. Even so let your light shine before men; that
> they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.
>
>
> Amen,
>
> Nels
>
>
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <hallman@> wrote:
> >
> > On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 9:45 AM, prairiedog2332 arvent@ wrote:
> > >
> > > And as for patience, how long until a person might get the feeling they are
> >being ignored? Five years? Ten?
> >
> > Dealing with PCB was more like seeking inspiration from an artist, as
> > opposed to hiring a technician.
> >
> > When I hear the Robert Hunter lyrics about a traveling
> > story-teller/prophet from Lady With a Fan, I think of Phil Bolger's
> > genius:
> >
> > ââ¢Â«
> > Let my inspiration flow in token rhyme, suggesting rhythm,
> > That will not forsake you, till my tale is told and done.
> > ...the lady fairly leapt at him.
> > That's how it stands today.
> > You decide if he was wise.
> > The story teller makes no choice.
> > Soon you will not hear his voice.
> > His job is to shed light, and not to master.
> > Since the end is never told, we pay the teller off in gold,
> > In hopes he will return, but he cannot be bought or sold
> > ââ¢Â«
> >
> > Nels, we probably don't see eye to eye on this,
> > but when asking for inspiration (or life),
> > you cannot demand, you can just hope.
> > Boat designs are not commodities
> > but rather they are inspirations.
> > They don't always come when you want them.
> >
>
Hello All,
about designs jumping the queue:
about designs jumping the queue:
- Seemingly limited efforts, such as BECKY THATCHER, seemed 'diversions' to recover strength for the big projects through reasonably joyous concepts and hopefully rapid construction and use to fuel our lives. We were trying anything to somehow manage the em,erging over-flow of work, opportunities and must-dos. And all suffered - none of which brightened our days.
- Without the Fisheries-issue and the unexpected advances by the Navy I would suggest that much backed-up work would have gotten done reasonably on time, incl. likely most of the books now in manuscript form.
- But how would we have stood on the side-lines watching your home-town fleet's travails ?
- And while folks were serving bloody combat-duty by 2002 - and on the background that in both families many members served by draft or volunteering - we felt compelled to offer our best conceptual responses without holding back, and took a net-loss on any of those exercises. Furthermore from a professional perspective, if as Small Craft Designers we are asked for an opinion by the US Navy, it would be absurd to decline, no matter how much it upset our schedules and business plans. The outcomes of this work were and are worth it, with some eventually accessible as well.
It is one thing to be asked once. It is another thing to build a relationship bridging the cultural chasms between PB&F and Conceptual Specialists and Force Analysts of the most powerful fleet.
- What would interfere unevadeably was Phil's and our decline in net output, as the 'timing' of this work did tragically not match the emerging challenge at the core of creativity and predictable work-flow for both of us. Eventually we found ourselves truly spent.
- As to AURIGA, she underwent a series of mostly productive reconsideration on the part of PB&F and the Kolbs. Her plans are well advanced and are a rigorous treatment of the live-aboard global-reaching 50' advanced sharpie subject. Between above-mentioned distractions and thus delays, and changing life circumstances for the Kolbs, their 40-foot shed in a high-country valley may see a much scaled-down project emerge within its protection from Colorado mountain weather.
- After the initial concept-study, INSOLENT 60 in her extreme attributes needed thorough re-doing in-house (delay) and does indeed need one more mid-size revision to get her to be a reasonably plausible proposition. Conceptually she is fully-formed, with most details addressed. But it is probably a very good thing that she did not go out the door as is. I know that at least one builder is eager to get on that project.
- There are several other smaller designs that went into hibernation but remain attractive since extraordinarily rational concepts.
Right now I am dealing with several immediate high priorities related both to design and life and have at them day by day with a steady increase in strength and thus output. As they get settled one by one this venture moves closer to where it should be.
Susanne Altenburger, PB&F
----- Original Message -----From:prairiedog2332Sent:Tuesday, October 05, 2010 12:45 PMSubject:[bolger] Re: Did I miss anybody with e-mail requests ?Bruce,
I have to wonder how offering plans for sale in MAIB does not suggest some sort of obligation to send them once they are ordered? Or at least respond to inquiries about them. Or do you suggest one just send the money and hope they show up sometime?
And as for patience, how long until a person might get the feeling they are being ignored? Five years? Ten?
I think most of us who have been a devotee of Bolger and SBJ and later MAIB for what 20-25 years (including John Kohnen) own or have lusted after Mr. Bolger's books (now out of print except for one) are well aware of the trials and tribulations of PCB&F. This includes the military contract and the devotion to keeping the fishing industry viable.
What really bothers some of us is how some commissions jump the queue and get completed (Becky Thatcher) and others like the I60 and Aurigaare ignored to this day!
John Kolb - who has built many Bolger boats is still awaiting his Auriga plans and has built the Fast Brick to go with it - which lies useless in his shop. Reality is he is getting on in years now and has given up the project last I heard.
Nels
--- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <hallman@...> wrote:
> The second implies that it is "wrong" that SA is not making the life
> work of PCB and PB&F more easily available to the public. Actually,
> she has no obligation that I can see to make those designs available
> to us. I see nothing wrong with having to wait to get something we
> don't own. We should be grateful for what we get and try to find more
> patience.
>
This would be a wonderful note to end this thread on. Thank you...
Denis Meier
Onoway, Alberta
From:prairiedog2332 <arvent@...>
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent:Tue, October 5, 2010 12:23:11 PM
Subject:[bolger] Re: Did I miss anybody with e-mail requests ?
Denis Meier
Onoway, Alberta
From:prairiedog2332 <arvent@...>
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent:Tue, October 5, 2010 12:23:11 PM
Subject:[bolger] Re: Did I miss anybody with e-mail requests ?
Bruce,
You are a kind and gentle soul and a great inspiration with your work.
To me genius is a gift and intended to be shared.
I am reminded of Mathew5 14-16
Ye are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hid.Neither do men light a lamp, and put it under the bushel, but on the stand; and it shineth unto all that are in the house.Even so let your light shine before men; that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.
Amen,
Nels
--- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <hallman@...> wrote:
>
> On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 9:45 AM, prairiedog2332 arvent@... wrote:
> >
> > And as for patience, how long until a person might get the feeling they are being ignored? Five years? Ten?
>
> Dealing with PCB was more like seeking inspiration from an artist, as
> opposed to hiring a technician.
>
> When I hear the Robert Hunter lyrics about a traveling
> story-teller/prophet from Lady With a Fan, I think of Phil Bolger's
> genius:
>
> ♫
> Let my inspiration flow in token rhyme, suggesting rhythm,
> That will not forsake you, till my tale is told and done.
> ...the lady fairly leapt at him.
> That's how it stands today.
> You decide if he was wise.
> The story teller makes no choice.
> Soon you will not hear his voice.
> His job is to shed light, and not to master.
> Since the end is never told, we pay the teller off in gold,
> In hopes he will return, but he cannot be bought or sold
> ♫
>
> Nels, we probably don't see eye to eye on this,
> but when asking for inspiration (or life),
> you cannot demand, you can just hope.
> Boat designs are not commodities
> but rather they are inspirations.
> They don't always come when you want them.
>
Bruce,
You are a kind and gentle soul and a great inspiration with your work.
To me genius is a gift and intended to be shared.
I am reminded of Mathew5 14-16
Ye are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hid.Neither do men light a lamp, and put it under the bushel, but on the stand; and it shineth unto all that are in the house.Even so let your light shine before men; that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.
Amen,
Nels
You are a kind and gentle soul and a great inspiration with your work.
To me genius is a gift and intended to be shared.
I am reminded of Mathew5 14-16
Ye are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hid.Neither do men light a lamp, and put it under the bushel, but on the stand; and it shineth unto all that are in the house.Even so let your light shine before men; that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.
Amen,
Nels
--- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <hallman@...> wrote:
>
> On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 9:45 AM, prairiedog2332 arvent@... wrote:
> >
> > And as for patience, how long until a person might get the feeling they are being ignored? Five years? Ten?
>
> Dealing with PCB was more like seeking inspiration from an artist, as
> opposed to hiring a technician.
>
> When I hear the Robert Hunter lyrics about a traveling
> story-teller/prophet from Lady With a Fan, I think of Phil Bolger's
> genius:
>
> â«
> Let my inspiration flow in token rhyme, suggesting rhythm,
> That will not forsake you, till my tale is told and done.
> ...the lady fairly leapt at him.
> That's how it stands today.
> You decide if he was wise.
> The story teller makes no choice.
> Soon you will not hear his voice.
> His job is to shed light, and not to master.
> Since the end is never told, we pay the teller off in gold,
> In hopes he will return, but he cannot be bought or sold
> â«
>
> Nels, we probably don't see eye to eye on this,
> but when asking for inspiration (or life),
> you cannot demand, you can just hope.
> Boat designs are not commodities
> but rather they are inspirations.
> They don't always come when you want them.
>
-----Original Message-----
From: david_shurr <david_shurr@...>
Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 9:31 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Did I miss anybody with e-mail requests ?
Rob, I re-read the original letter on Duckworks Magazine before I responded to you; you may want to also. I have not conversed with either party before or after the original letter.
I suspect the letter is real, but very onesided. Ms. Bolger explained the issue in her email and I believe her response is adequate.
If I owned Ductworks; I might be concerned about allowing the letter to be printed. However, Ductworks runs on contributions from all source. Having a sensorship issue may reduce the amount of contributing writers.
Ductworks may or may not have thought the letter was a fair, accurate and truthful description of the issues, I can not say. In any case his printing of the letter was brought out into the open to allow discource and the truth to be told.
I see no reason to give judgement or bad mouth anybody. The reputation of Ductworks and Bolger and Friends is on display for all to see.
From: david_shurr <david_shurr@...>
Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 9:31 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Did I miss anybody with e-mail requests ?
Rob, I re-read the original letter on Duckworks Magazine before I responded to you; you may want to also. I have not conversed with either party before or after the original letter.
I suspect the letter is real, but very onesided. Ms. Bolger explained the issue in her email and I believe her response is adequate.
If I owned Ductworks; I might be concerned about allowing the letter to be printed. However, Ductworks runs on contributions from all source. Having a sensorship issue may reduce the amount of contributing writers.
Ductworks may or may not have thought the letter was a fair, accurate and truthful description of the issues, I can not say. In any case his printing of the letter was brought out into the open to allow discource and the truth to be told.
I see no reason to give judgement or bad mouth anybody. The reputation of Ductworks and Bolger and Friends is on display for all to see.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Robb" <robb@...> wrote:
>
> Then why was that message posted that may or may not be real?
> There is no way I would have posted stuff like that...
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Kohnen" <jhkohnen@...>
> To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 1:35 PM
> Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Did I miss anybody with e-mail requests ?
>
>
> > One last time: There is NO Duckworks pressure! <sigh>
> >
> > On Mon, 04 Oct 2010 09:59:24 -0700, Robb wrote:
> >
> >> And my 2 cents worth too...
> >> I wouldn't buckle to the duckworks pressure........I lost all respect
> >> after
> >> they turned the texas 200 into a "members only yacht club"
> >> I think part of why Phil did business the way he did, was because people
> >> very often lead themselves down the wrong path when deciding what boat to
> >> build. Keeping sales more personal and not "bulk" is not such a bad
> >> idea.
> >
> > --
> > John (jkohnen@...)
> > There are two means of refuge from the misery of life - music
> > and cats. (Albert Schweitzer)
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
> > horses
> > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
> > (978) 282-1349
> > - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo!
> > Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 9:45 AM, prairiedog2332 <arvent@...> wrote:
opposed to hiring a technician.
When I hear the Robert Hunter lyrics about a traveling
story-teller/prophet from Lady With a Fan, I think of Phil Bolger's
genius:
♫
Let my inspiration flow in token rhyme, suggesting rhythm,
That will not forsake you, till my tale is told and done.
...the lady fairly leapt at him.
That's how it stands today.
You decide if he was wise.
The story teller makes no choice.
Soon you will not hear his voice.
His job is to shed light, and not to master.
Since the end is never told, we pay the teller off in gold,
In hopes he will return, but he cannot be bought or sold
♫
Nels, we probably don't see eye to eye on this,
but when asking for inspiration (or life),
you cannot demand, you can just hope.
Boat designs are not commodities
but rather they are inspirations.
They don't always come when you want them.
>Dealing with PCB was more like seeking inspiration from an artist, as
> And as for patience, how long until a person might get the feeling they are being ignored? Five years? Ten?
opposed to hiring a technician.
When I hear the Robert Hunter lyrics about a traveling
story-teller/prophet from Lady With a Fan, I think of Phil Bolger's
genius:
♫
Let my inspiration flow in token rhyme, suggesting rhythm,
That will not forsake you, till my tale is told and done.
...the lady fairly leapt at him.
That's how it stands today.
You decide if he was wise.
The story teller makes no choice.
Soon you will not hear his voice.
His job is to shed light, and not to master.
Since the end is never told, we pay the teller off in gold,
In hopes he will return, but he cannot be bought or sold
♫
Nels, we probably don't see eye to eye on this,
but when asking for inspiration (or life),
you cannot demand, you can just hope.
Boat designs are not commodities
but rather they are inspirations.
They don't always come when you want them.
Bruce,
I have to wonder how offering plans for sale in MAIB does not suggest some sort of obligation to send them once they are ordered? Or at least respond to inquiries about them. Or do you suggest one just send the money and hope they show up sometime?
And as for patience, how long until a person might get the feeling they are being ignored? Five years? Ten?
I think most of us who have been a devotee of Bolger and SBJ and later MAIB for what 20-25 years (including John Kohnen) own or have lusted after Mr. Bolger's books (now out of print except for one) are well aware of the trials and tribulations of PCB&F. This includes the military contract and the devotion to keeping the fishing industry viable.
What really bothers some of us is how some commissions jump the queue and get completed (Becky Thatcher) and others like the I60 and Aurigaare ignored to this day!
John Kolb - who has built many Bolger boats is still awaiting his Auriga plans and has built the Fast Brick to go with it - which lies useless in his shop. Reality is he is getting on in years now and has given up the project last I heard.
Nels
I have to wonder how offering plans for sale in MAIB does not suggest some sort of obligation to send them once they are ordered? Or at least respond to inquiries about them. Or do you suggest one just send the money and hope they show up sometime?
And as for patience, how long until a person might get the feeling they are being ignored? Five years? Ten?
I think most of us who have been a devotee of Bolger and SBJ and later MAIB for what 20-25 years (including John Kohnen) own or have lusted after Mr. Bolger's books (now out of print except for one) are well aware of the trials and tribulations of PCB&F. This includes the military contract and the devotion to keeping the fishing industry viable.
What really bothers some of us is how some commissions jump the queue and get completed (Becky Thatcher) and others like the I60 and Aurigaare ignored to this day!
John Kolb - who has built many Bolger boats is still awaiting his Auriga plans and has built the Fast Brick to go with it - which lies useless in his shop. Reality is he is getting on in years now and has given up the project last I heard.
Nels
--- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <hallman@...> wrote:
> The second implies that it is "wrong" that SA is not making the life
> work of PCB and PB&F more easily available to the public. Actually,
> she has no obligation that I can see to make those designs available
> to us. I see nothing wrong with having to wait to get something we
> don't own. We should be grateful for what we get and try to find more
> patience.
>
On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 8:33 AM, John Kohnen <jhkohnen@...> wrote:
I see nothing "wrong" with PB&F not filling orders. PB&F has no
obligation to fill orders.
And, I see nothing "wrong" with unfinished designs.
While I am not informed about the exact terms of the design service
agreements; I strongly suspect that payments are made for services
rendered, or milestones achieved, and not simplistically for "finished
designs". Many design concepts, even in the best of circumstances,
are never completed to a 'finished' stage.
If there are specific problems, work them out directly; there is
little good that comes from gripe sessions here!
> In my posting I didn't say a word about Susanne making the PB&F plans more:) Perhaps you misunderstood me, so let me be more direct:
> easily available. The "wrong" I was talking about is the backlog of
> unfinished designs and unfilled orders, which Susanne is working to
> address.
I see nothing "wrong" with PB&F not filling orders. PB&F has no
obligation to fill orders.
And, I see nothing "wrong" with unfinished designs.
While I am not informed about the exact terms of the design service
agreements; I strongly suspect that payments are made for services
rendered, or milestones achieved, and not simplistically for "finished
designs". Many design concepts, even in the best of circumstances,
are never completed to a 'finished' stage.
If there are specific problems, work them out directly; there is
little good that comes from gripe sessions here!
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen" <jhkohnen@...> wrote:
"Chuck Leinweber" <chuck@...>
I am currently in the middle of discussions with Mr. Bolger in which I am trying to get his permission to post a few of his old cartoons in Duckworks. He seems to think that I am some kind of multinational corporation bent on raping the land and cheating him out of something. His words were "our essays are copyrighted material not available for commercial exploitation."
I have met a number of the Bolgeristas on this list, and communicated with many others over the years. Indeed, I count myself as one (having built a Tennessee). I think you can vouch for my character. Anyway, I'd like to encourage some of you who would be interested in seeing more Bolger material on the web to fax or write PCB&F and let them know how you feel.
Chuck Leinweber
Duckworks............................."
>".............................help!
> I know Chuck Leinweber of Duckworks, and have to defend him
> against this anonymous "libel." He's not someone who'd "remain
> miffed" over being rebuffed by PB&F after offering to market
> their plans. Do we even know if anything like that ever happened?
> He's not some cutthroat competitor who'd maliciously try to harm
> his rivals (are there any people like that in the small boat plans
> business? I've never encountered any...). He's got plenty of
> business to keep himself and Sandra busy, and is more interested
> in having time to go boating than in expanding their business
> until it eats up too much of their life.
"Chuck Leinweber" <chuck@...>
I am currently in the middle of discussions with Mr. Bolger in which I am trying to get his permission to post a few of his old cartoons in Duckworks. He seems to think that I am some kind of multinational corporation bent on raping the land and cheating him out of something. His words were "our essays are copyrighted material not available for commercial exploitation."
I have met a number of the Bolgeristas on this list, and communicated with many others over the years. Indeed, I count myself as one (having built a Tennessee). I think you can vouch for my character. Anyway, I'd like to encourage some of you who would be interested in seeing more Bolger material on the web to fax or write PCB&F and let them know how you feel.
Chuck Leinweber
Duckworks............................."
> Chuck only published a letter from a disgruntled customer of PB&F.Why? Has he published many letters from disgruntled clients of other professional service providers? Is he in the profession of journalism or marketing?http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dwforum/message/23813
> If there's any truth behind Grover's gripe, there's no libel, andWith who? Says who?
> there may be something to it, given the chaotic state of PB&F in
> the last few years. Acknowledging the troubles of PB&F by no means
> indicates that I think there was ever any intentional wrongdoing by
> Susanne! PB&F is hardly a competitor with anyone in the boat plans
> business now.
> It's just too difficult to find out about the plans SusanThat would depend. Generally, it aint.
> sells and then make a purchase.
> Short of having someone build andHave you seen Instant Boats site for one thing? Perhaps a small add in MAIB or WB with an inexpensive mail out catalogue like some others do would serve as well as anything online, and be a better fit? Anyway, Duckworks add to the plans price, add still more to P&P, and the designer still does the same accounting, printing, packing, and posting. Plans are mostly cheaper direct, and ordering that way instead of through Duckworks is often only available by mail.
> maintain a Website for PB&F, like I did for another widow, Pat
> Atkin, and put together a catalog, Duckworks would be an excellent
> way to market Bolger's plans.
> I don't know why Susanne would be resistant to the idea. <shrug>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/message/27139
> Duckworks handles the online catalogWhat's the relative volume of orders Jim receives direct? How do Jim or Dynamite, let alone Duckworks, handle a builder/client enquiry of the type that might arise from a Bolger wooden submarine plans purchase?
> and deals with the payments, the designer ships the plans. The
> plans are never out of the designers control, so there's no chance
> of problems like PB&F have had with Common Sense Boats and Duckflat
> down in the Antipodes. Jim Michalak has been happily using
> Duckworks for many years to sell his plans, and I'm sure he'd be
> willing to tell Susanne about it, if she'd ask.
> John (jkohnen@...)There's naught no doubt so much the spirit calms as rum and true religion. (Lord Byron)
> The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are
> always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of
> doubts. (Bertrand Russell)
>
This is ridiculous... Has anyone else noticed that the instigator of this
thread chooses to remain anonymous? Who is this c.ruzer anyway?
The Grover letter was not seen on the Duckworks Yahoo group -- which is
exactly analogous to this forum, as are all Yahoo groups -- because it
wasn't posted there. Messages to the Duckworks group don't have to be OKed
before they appear. Don't go looking for a conspiracy there... <sigh>
Duckworks has no business with Grover's gripe, it just appeared in a
lightly, if at all, moderated forum on their Web pages.
I give up. It's liking trying to argue with a pile of rocks. I shouldn't
have fed c.ruzer as long as I have. <sigh> But it did get my blood
circulating. <g>
thread chooses to remain anonymous? Who is this c.ruzer anyway?
The Grover letter was not seen on the Duckworks Yahoo group -- which is
exactly analogous to this forum, as are all Yahoo groups -- because it
wasn't posted there. Messages to the Duckworks group don't have to be OKed
before they appear. Don't go looking for a conspiracy there... <sigh>
Duckworks has no business with Grover's gripe, it just appeared in a
lightly, if at all, moderated forum on their Web pages.
I give up. It's liking trying to argue with a pile of rocks. I shouldn't
have fed c.ruzer as long as I have. <sigh> But it did get my blood
circulating. <g>
On Tue, 05 Oct 2010 07:16:04 -0700, c.ruzer (whoever that is) wrote:
>
>
> Aw, come off it. This 'gripe' was not seen on the Duckworks owned and
> moderated Yahoogroup, dwforum, that is itself only somewhat analogous in
> structure to this Bolger Yahoogroup.
> ...
> So what business of Duckworks inc is this 'gripe' anyway? And even
> supposing that it's to help out some poor sod, why is that business
> handled this way by savvy business interests? "If it walks like a ..."
--
John (jkohnen@...)
He could do anything he put his mind to, except put on a white
shirt and tie. (said of yacht club manager Clifford James
Dickson by his daughter)
Yeah I'm sure they are uncensored right up until you complain about
duckworks bb supply or something that hits close to home. It isn't
uncensored at all......it's just uncensored when it involved negativity
against the competition. Robb
duckworks bb supply or something that hits close to home. It isn't
uncensored at all......it's just uncensored when it involved negativity
against the competition. Robb
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Kohnen" <jhkohnen@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 11:33 AM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Did I miss anybody with e-mail requests ?
> In my posting I didn't say a word about Susanne making the PB&F plans more
> easily available. The "wrong" I was talking about is the backlog of
> unfinished designs and unfilled orders, which Susanne is working to
> address. Grover's gripe was about part of that problem. It's unfortunate
> he got carried away with his rhetoric, but his complaint is completely
> plausible. The Duckworks letters seem to be an open, uncensored forum. It
> seems like rebuttals to Grover's letter would be most effective if they
> were posted there.
>
> I wish Susanne only the best as she takes the reins of PB&F and gets
> caught up. I sure wish she'd find a way to make it easier to buy Bolger
> plans, but that wasn't the subject of my post.
>
> On Tue, 05 Oct 2010 06:17:38 -0700, Bruce H wrote:
>
>>> There have been problems at PB&F. We all know that. Susanne has had a
>>> hard
>>> time since Phil's death, but she's trying to get things fixed. I'm sure
>>> everyone here wishes her the best, but it does no one any good to ignore
>>> that there was ever anything wrong.
>>
>> You are mixing up two things:
>>
>> First, any person would be deeply moved at the loss of a spouse, and
>> we all wish there was something we could do to make this better. My
>> heart goes out to her over this.
>>
>> The second implies that it is "wrong" that SA is not making the life
>> work of PCB and PB&F more easily available to the public. Actually,
>> she has no obligation that I can see to make those designs available
>> to us. I see nothing wrong with having to wait to get something we
>> don't own. We should be grateful for what we get and try to find more
>> patience.
>
> --
> John (jkohnen@...)
> Too often I would hear men boast of the miles covered that day,
> rarely of what they had seen. (Louis L'Amour)
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
> horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
> (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo!
> Groups Links
>
>
>
>
In my posting I didn't say a word about Susanne making the PB&F plans more
easily available. The "wrong" I was talking about is the backlog of
unfinished designs and unfilled orders, which Susanne is working to
address. Grover's gripe was about part of that problem. It's unfortunate
he got carried away with his rhetoric, but his complaint is completely
plausible. The Duckworks letters seem to be an open, uncensored forum. It
seems like rebuttals to Grover's letter would be most effective if they
were posted there.
I wish Susanne only the best as she takes the reins of PB&F and gets
caught up. I sure wish she'd find a way to make it easier to buy Bolger
plans, but that wasn't the subject of my post.
easily available. The "wrong" I was talking about is the backlog of
unfinished designs and unfilled orders, which Susanne is working to
address. Grover's gripe was about part of that problem. It's unfortunate
he got carried away with his rhetoric, but his complaint is completely
plausible. The Duckworks letters seem to be an open, uncensored forum. It
seems like rebuttals to Grover's letter would be most effective if they
were posted there.
I wish Susanne only the best as she takes the reins of PB&F and gets
caught up. I sure wish she'd find a way to make it easier to buy Bolger
plans, but that wasn't the subject of my post.
On Tue, 05 Oct 2010 06:17:38 -0700, Bruce H wrote:
>> There have been problems at PB&F. We all know that. Susanne has had a
>> hard
>> time since Phil's death, but she's trying to get things fixed. I'm sure
>> everyone here wishes her the best, but it does no one any good to ignore
>> that there was ever anything wrong.
>
> You are mixing up two things:
>
> First, any person would be deeply moved at the loss of a spouse, and
> we all wish there was something we could do to make this better. My
> heart goes out to her over this.
>
> The second implies that it is "wrong" that SA is not making the life
> work of PCB and PB&F more easily available to the public. Actually,
> she has no obligation that I can see to make those designs available
> to us. I see nothing wrong with having to wait to get something we
> don't own. We should be grateful for what we get and try to find more
> patience.
--
John (jkohnen@...)
Too often I would hear men boast of the miles covered that day,
rarely of what they had seen. (Louis L'Amour)
> You are mixing up two things:Too right. And more!
Aw, come off it. This 'gripe' was not seen on the Duckworks owned and moderated Yahoogroup, dwforum, that is itself only somewhat analogous in structure to this Bolger Yahoogroup.
No, the slur is up on the Duckworks inc commercial site. There Duckworks have even more control and business interest. Duckworks choose to accept or refuse content received, or lifted from their forum, for publication. They edit it, put it up, or shut it out - censoring.
Rather, a somewhat corresponding situation and truer test would be that of the occaision when order filling for plans by Duckworks associated designers goes awry. Do they then put up the disatisfied customers griping, and commercially detrimental letters of demand in the Duckworks inc Magazine letters column? Uh-uh. Oh, no. Instead Duckworks may quietly remove the subject of complaint from their product range - instead of rubbing salt in the wound.
Griping, and dissing commercial products in the dwforum Yahoogroup occurs, but surely that's to be expected, even applauded, in a reasonably open forum in a free virtual society. But, how much of that griping about the many things not commercially associated with Duckworks inc have you seen published on the Duckworks website?
So what business of Duckworks inc is this 'gripe' anyway? And even supposing that it's to help out some poor sod, why is that business handled this way by savvy business interests? "If it walks like a ..."
No, the slur is up on the Duckworks inc commercial site. There Duckworks have even more control and business interest. Duckworks choose to accept or refuse content received, or lifted from their forum, for publication. They edit it, put it up, or shut it out - censoring.
Rather, a somewhat corresponding situation and truer test would be that of the occaision when order filling for plans by Duckworks associated designers goes awry. Do they then put up the disatisfied customers griping, and commercially detrimental letters of demand in the Duckworks inc Magazine letters column? Uh-uh. Oh, no. Instead Duckworks may quietly remove the subject of complaint from their product range - instead of rubbing salt in the wound.
Griping, and dissing commercial products in the dwforum Yahoogroup occurs, but surely that's to be expected, even applauded, in a reasonably open forum in a free virtual society. But, how much of that griping about the many things not commercially associated with Duckworks inc have you seen published on the Duckworks website?
So what business of Duckworks inc is this 'gripe' anyway? And even supposing that it's to help out some poor sod, why is that business handled this way by savvy business interests? "If it walks like a ..."
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen" <jhkohnen@...> wrote:
>
> Duckworks probably chooses to do little, if any, censoring of letters.
> Grover's gripe only differs a bit in tone from many similar complaint
> posted here. Should the Bolger group be moderated, and all postings
> critical of PB&F deleted before they see the light of day?
> There have been problems at PB&F. We all know that. Susanne has had a hardYou are mixing up two things:
> time since Phil's death, but she's trying to get things fixed. I'm sure
> everyone here wishes her the best, but it does no one any good to ignore
> that there was ever anything wrong.
First, any person would be deeply moved at the loss of a spouse, and
we all wish there was something we could do to make this better. My
heart goes out to her over this.
The second implies that it is "wrong" that SA is not making the life
work of PCB and PB&F more easily available to the public. Actually,
she has no obligation that I can see to make those designs available
to us. I see nothing wrong with having to wait to get something we
don't own. We should be grateful for what we get and try to find more
patience.
Duckworks probably chooses to do little, if any, censoring of letters.
Grover's gripe only differs a bit in tone from many similar complaint
posted here. Should the Bolger group be moderated, and all postings
critical of PB&F deleted before they see the light of day?
There have been problems at PB&F. We all know that. Susanne has had a hard
time since Phil's death, but she's trying to get things fixed. I'm sure
everyone here wishes her the best, but it does no one any good to ignore
that there was ever anything wrong.
Grover's gripe only differs a bit in tone from many similar complaint
posted here. Should the Bolger group be moderated, and all postings
critical of PB&F deleted before they see the light of day?
There have been problems at PB&F. We all know that. Susanne has had a hard
time since Phil's death, but she's trying to get things fixed. I'm sure
everyone here wishes her the best, but it does no one any good to ignore
that there was ever anything wrong.
On Mon, 04 Oct 2010 16:26:44 -0700, Robb wrote:
> Then why was that message posted that may or may not be real?
> There is no way I would have posted stuff like that...
--
John (jkohnen@...)
A lawn is nature under totalitarian rule. (Michael Pollan)
Modest dues to pay for insurance and other expenses. Quite sensible, and
hardly exclusionary.
http://www.texas200.com/
hardly exclusionary.
http://www.texas200.com/
On Mon, 04 Oct 2010 21:34:58 -0700, david s wrote:
> The membership was for participates of the Texas 200 only.
--
John (jkohnen@...)
Dissent is what rescues democracy from a quiet death behind
closed doors. (Lewis H. Lapham)
Gene,
The membership was for participates of the Texas 200 only.
The membership was for participates of the Texas 200 only.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Gene T." <goldranger02-boats@...> wrote:
>
> David,
> Thanks for the clarity. Much to do about nothing as I can see it.
> Was it membership in the forum?
>
> Sincerely,
> Gene T.
>
> On 4 Oct, 2010, at 3:50 PM, david_shurr wrote:
>
> > Rob,
> >
> > When ever someone organizes an event they are exposed to possible
> > litigation and financial risk. The "members only" stipulation was
> > needed to qualify for liabiliaty insurance and to reduce liabiliaty
> > concerns.
> >
> > Duckworks did what was needed to be done! Your opionion is harsh and
> > unfounded.
> >
> > What do you? You pay for what you get.
> >
> > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Robb" <robb@> wrote:
> > >
> > > And my 2 cents worth too...
> > > I wouldn't buckle to the duckworks pressure........I lost all
> > respect after
> > > they turned the texas 200 into a "members only yacht club"
> > > I think part of why Phil did business the way he did, was because
> > people
> > > very often lead themselves down the wrong path when deciding what
> > boat to
> > > build. Keeping sales more personal and not "bulk" is not such a
> > bad idea.
> > > Robb
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Chris Crandall" <crandall@>
> > > To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 12:00 PM
> > > Subject: [bolger] Re: Did I miss anybody with e-mail requests ?
> > >
> > >
> > > > My $0.02. As usual, Craig O'Donnell gets it 100% correct.
> > > >
> > > > But let me add one thing.
> > > >
> > > > Susanne, it would be a wonderful, wonderful thing if you would
> > allow
> > > > someone to market plans for you. You could do all the fun,
> > interesting,
> > > > and rewarding work that you do, and the other person would
> > handle all of
> > > > the drudgery, get it done faster, be the target of "mail"
> > complaints,
> > > > and *both* of you would make more money.
> > > >
> > > > There are thousands of us out here longing to look at a complete
> > (as
> > > > possible) Bolger catalog. And willing to buy plans after we look
> > at them.
> > > >
> > > > There are talented, decent people out there waiting, veritably
> > chomping
> > > > at the byte, to do it. I hope you seriously consider it.
> > > >
> > > > -Chris
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > Bolger rules!!!
> > > > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> > > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or
> > flogging dead
> > > > horses
> > > > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks,
> > Fred' posts
> > > > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> > > > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
> > 01930, Fax:
> > > > (978) 282-1349
> > > > - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-
> >subscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo!
> > > > Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
Rob, I re-read the original letter on Duckworks Magazine before I responded to you; you may want to also. I have not conversed with either party before or after the original letter.
I suspect the letter is real, but very onesided. Ms. Bolger explained the issue in her email and I believe her response is adequate.
If I owned Ductworks; I might be concerned about allowing the letter to be printed. However, Ductworks runs on contributions from all source. Having a sensorship issue may reduce the amount of contributing writers.
Ductworks may or may not have thought the letter was a fair, accurate and truthful description of the issues, I can not say. In any case his printing of the letter was brought out into the open to allow discource and the truth to be told.
I see no reason to give judgement or bad mouth anybody. The reputation of Ductworks and Bolger and Friends is on display for all to see.
I suspect the letter is real, but very onesided. Ms. Bolger explained the issue in her email and I believe her response is adequate.
If I owned Ductworks; I might be concerned about allowing the letter to be printed. However, Ductworks runs on contributions from all source. Having a sensorship issue may reduce the amount of contributing writers.
Ductworks may or may not have thought the letter was a fair, accurate and truthful description of the issues, I can not say. In any case his printing of the letter was brought out into the open to allow discource and the truth to be told.
I see no reason to give judgement or bad mouth anybody. The reputation of Ductworks and Bolger and Friends is on display for all to see.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Robb" <robb@...> wrote:
>
> Then why was that message posted that may or may not be real?
> There is no way I would have posted stuff like that...
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Kohnen" <jhkohnen@...>
> To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 1:35 PM
> Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Did I miss anybody with e-mail requests ?
>
>
> > One last time: There is NO Duckworks pressure! <sigh>
> >
> > On Mon, 04 Oct 2010 09:59:24 -0700, Robb wrote:
> >
> >> And my 2 cents worth too...
> >> I wouldn't buckle to the duckworks pressure........I lost all respect
> >> after
> >> they turned the texas 200 into a "members only yacht club"
> >> I think part of why Phil did business the way he did, was because people
> >> very often lead themselves down the wrong path when deciding what boat to
> >> build. Keeping sales more personal and not "bulk" is not such a bad
> >> idea.
> >
> > --
> > John (jkohnen@...)
> > There are two means of refuge from the misery of life - music
> > and cats. (Albert Schweitzer)
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
> > horses
> > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
> > (978) 282-1349
> > - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo!
> > Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
I agree with John.
There have been several Bolger designs partaking in the Texas 200 and
all have been greatly admired, including a Cartopper, Martha Jane, Tiny
Cat and in particular the Folding Schooner that has "stolen the show"
for several reasons. It is open to one and all.
I belong to several Yahoo small boat discussion groups which are quite
often interested in Bolger designs and over and over the question is
raised how do I get plans? And over and over I tell them not from CSB or
Duck Flats which are pirated but through either Payson or PCB&F. The
four designs are most often the ones that they found about from Texas
200 write-ups as well as the Micro and Long Micro as well as Brick, and
recently Super Brick.
The underlying atmosphere on all these discusions is one of
frustration, particularly when it comes to the Micro series and Martha
Jane. Everyone seems to realize these are superior designs to any others
out there.
Nels
There have been several Bolger designs partaking in the Texas 200 and
all have been greatly admired, including a Cartopper, Martha Jane, Tiny
Cat and in particular the Folding Schooner that has "stolen the show"
for several reasons. It is open to one and all.
I belong to several Yahoo small boat discussion groups which are quite
often interested in Bolger designs and over and over the question is
raised how do I get plans? And over and over I tell them not from CSB or
Duck Flats which are pirated but through either Payson or PCB&F. The
four designs are most often the ones that they found about from Texas
200 write-ups as well as the Micro and Long Micro as well as Brick, and
recently Super Brick.
The underlying atmosphere on all these discusions is one of
frustration, particularly when it comes to the Micro series and Martha
Jane. Everyone seems to realize these are superior designs to any others
out there.
Nels
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen" <jhkohnen@...> wrote:
>
> One last time: There is NO Duckworks pressure! <sigh>
>
> On Mon, 04 Oct 2010 09:59:24 -0700, Robb wrote:
>
> > And my 2 cents worth too...
> > I wouldn't buckle to the duckworks pressure........I lost all
respect
> > after
> > they turned the texas 200 into a "members only yacht club"
> > I think part of why Phil did business the way he did, was because
people
> > very often lead themselves down the wrong path when deciding what
boat to
> > build. Keeping sales more personal and not "bulk" is not such a bad
> > idea.
>
> --
> John (jkohnen@...)
> There are two means of refuge from the misery of life - music
> and cats. (Albert Schweitzer)
>
Then why was that message posted that may or may not be real?
There is no way I would have posted stuff like that...
There is no way I would have posted stuff like that...
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Kohnen" <jhkohnen@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 1:35 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Did I miss anybody with e-mail requests ?
> One last time: There is NO Duckworks pressure! <sigh>
>
> On Mon, 04 Oct 2010 09:59:24 -0700, Robb wrote:
>
>> And my 2 cents worth too...
>> I wouldn't buckle to the duckworks pressure........I lost all respect
>> after
>> they turned the texas 200 into a "members only yacht club"
>> I think part of why Phil did business the way he did, was because people
>> very often lead themselves down the wrong path when deciding what boat to
>> build. Keeping sales more personal and not "bulk" is not such a bad
>> idea.
>
> --
> John (jkohnen@...)
> There are two means of refuge from the misery of life - music
> and cats. (Albert Schweitzer)
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
> horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
> (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo!
> Groups Links
>
>
>
>
David,
Thanks for the clarity. Much to do about nothing as I can see it. Was it membership in the forum?
Sincerely,
Gene T.
On 4 Oct, 2010, at 3:50 PM, david_shurr wrote:
Rob,
When ever someone organizes an event they are exposed to possible litigation and financial risk. The "members only" stipulation was needed to qualify for liabiliaty insurance and to reduce liabiliaty concerns.
Duckworks did what was needed to be done! Your opionion is harsh and unfounded.
What do you? You pay for what you get.
--- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Robb" <robb@...> wrote:
>
> And my 2 cents worth too...
> I wouldn't buckle to the duckworks pressure........I lost all respect after
> they turned the texas 200 into a "members only yacht club"
> I think part of why Phil did business the way he did, was because people
> very often lead themselves down the wrong path when deciding what boat to
> build. Keeping sales more personal and not "bulk" is not such a bad idea.
> Robb
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chris Crandall" <crandall@...>
> To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 12:00 PM
> Subject: [bolger] Re: Did I miss anybody with e-mail requests ?
>
>
> > My $0.02. As usual, Craig O'Donnell gets it 100% correct.
> >
> > But let me add one thing.
> >
> > Susanne, it would be a wonderful, wonderful thing if you would allow
> > someone to market plans for you. You could do all the fun, interesting,
> > and rewarding work that you do, and the other person would handle all of
> > the drudgery, get it done faster, be the target of "mail" complaints,
> > and *both* of you would make more money.
> >
> > There are thousands of us out here longing to look at a complete (as
> > possible) Bolger catalog. And willing to buy plans after we look at them.
> >
> > There are talented, decent people out there waiting, veritably chomping
> > at the byte, to do it. I hope you seriously consider it.
> >
> > -Chris
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
> > horses
> > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
> > (978) 282-1349
> > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo!
> > Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
Robb,
Would you mind explaining those comments.
Sincerely,
Gene T.
On 4 Oct, 2010, at 12:59 PM, Robb wrote:
And my 2 cents worth too...
I wouldn't buckle to the duckworks pressure........I lost all respect after
they turned the texas 200 into a "members only yacht club"
I think part of why Phil did business the way he did, was because people
very often lead themselves down the wrong path when deciding what boat to
build. Keeping sales more personal and not "bulk" is not such a bad idea.
Robb
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Crandall" <crandall@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 12:00 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Did I miss anybody with e-mail requests ?
> My $0.02. As usual, Craig O'Donnell gets it 100% correct.
>
> But let me add one thing.
>
> Susanne, it would be a wonderful, wonderful thing if you would allow
> someone to market plans for you. You could do all the fun, interesting,
> and rewarding work that you do, and the other person would handle all of
> the drudgery, get it done faster, be the target of "mail" complaints,
> and *both* of you would make more money.
>
> There are thousands of us out here longing to look at a complete (as
> possible) Bolger catalog. And willing to buy plans after we look at them.
>
> There are talented, decent people out there waiting, veritably chomping
> at the byte, to do it. I hope you seriously consider it.
>
> -Chris
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
> horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
> (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo!
> Groups Links
>
>
>
>
Rob,
When ever someone organizes an event they are exposed to possible litigation and financial risk. The "members only" stipulation was needed to qualify for liabiliaty insurance and to reduce liabiliaty concerns.
Duckworks did what was needed to be done! Your opionion is harsh and unfounded.
What do you? You pay for what you get.
When ever someone organizes an event they are exposed to possible litigation and financial risk. The "members only" stipulation was needed to qualify for liabiliaty insurance and to reduce liabiliaty concerns.
Duckworks did what was needed to be done! Your opionion is harsh and unfounded.
What do you? You pay for what you get.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Robb" <robb@...> wrote:
>
> And my 2 cents worth too...
> I wouldn't buckle to the duckworks pressure........I lost all respect after
> they turned the texas 200 into a "members only yacht club"
> I think part of why Phil did business the way he did, was because people
> very often lead themselves down the wrong path when deciding what boat to
> build. Keeping sales more personal and not "bulk" is not such a bad idea.
> Robb
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chris Crandall" <crandall@...>
> To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 12:00 PM
> Subject: [bolger] Re: Did I miss anybody with e-mail requests ?
>
>
> > My $0.02. As usual, Craig O'Donnell gets it 100% correct.
> >
> > But let me add one thing.
> >
> > Susanne, it would be a wonderful, wonderful thing if you would allow
> > someone to market plans for you. You could do all the fun, interesting,
> > and rewarding work that you do, and the other person would handle all of
> > the drudgery, get it done faster, be the target of "mail" complaints,
> > and *both* of you would make more money.
> >
> > There are thousands of us out here longing to look at a complete (as
> > possible) Bolger catalog. And willing to buy plans after we look at them.
> >
> > There are talented, decent people out there waiting, veritably chomping
> > at the byte, to do it. I hope you seriously consider it.
> >
> > -Chris
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
> > horses
> > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
> > (978) 282-1349
> > - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo!
> > Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
One last time: There is NO Duckworks pressure! <sigh>
On Mon, 04 Oct 2010 09:59:24 -0700, Robb wrote:
> And my 2 cents worth too...
> I wouldn't buckle to the duckworks pressure........I lost all respect
> after
> they turned the texas 200 into a "members only yacht club"
> I think part of why Phil did business the way he did, was because people
> very often lead themselves down the wrong path when deciding what boat to
> build. Keeping sales more personal and not "bulk" is not such a bad
> idea.
--
John (jkohnen@...)
There are two means of refuge from the misery of life - music
and cats. (Albert Schweitzer)
And my 2 cents worth too...
I wouldn't buckle to the duckworks pressure........I lost all respect after
they turned the texas 200 into a "members only yacht club"
I think part of why Phil did business the way he did, was because people
very often lead themselves down the wrong path when deciding what boat to
build. Keeping sales more personal and not "bulk" is not such a bad idea.
Robb
I wouldn't buckle to the duckworks pressure........I lost all respect after
they turned the texas 200 into a "members only yacht club"
I think part of why Phil did business the way he did, was because people
very often lead themselves down the wrong path when deciding what boat to
build. Keeping sales more personal and not "bulk" is not such a bad idea.
Robb
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Crandall" <crandall@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 12:00 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Did I miss anybody with e-mail requests ?
> My $0.02. As usual, Craig O'Donnell gets it 100% correct.
>
> But let me add one thing.
>
> Susanne, it would be a wonderful, wonderful thing if you would allow
> someone to market plans for you. You could do all the fun, interesting,
> and rewarding work that you do, and the other person would handle all of
> the drudgery, get it done faster, be the target of "mail" complaints,
> and *both* of you would make more money.
>
> There are thousands of us out here longing to look at a complete (as
> possible) Bolger catalog. And willing to buy plans after we look at them.
>
> There are talented, decent people out there waiting, veritably chomping
> at the byte, to do it. I hope you seriously consider it.
>
> -Chris
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
> horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
> (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo!
> Groups Links
>
>
>
>
My $0.02. As usual, Craig O'Donnell gets it 100% correct.
But let me add one thing.
Susanne, it would be a wonderful, wonderful thing if you would allow
someone to market plans for you. You could do all the fun, interesting,
and rewarding work that you do, and the other person would handle all of
the drudgery, get it done faster, be the target of "mail" complaints,
and *both* of you would make more money.
There are thousands of us out here longing to look at a complete (as
possible) Bolger catalog. And willing to buy plans after we look at them.
There are talented, decent people out there waiting, veritably chomping
at the byte, to do it. I hope you seriously consider it.
-Chris
But let me add one thing.
Susanne, it would be a wonderful, wonderful thing if you would allow
someone to market plans for you. You could do all the fun, interesting,
and rewarding work that you do, and the other person would handle all of
the drudgery, get it done faster, be the target of "mail" complaints,
and *both* of you would make more money.
There are thousands of us out here longing to look at a complete (as
possible) Bolger catalog. And willing to buy plans after we look at them.
There are talented, decent people out there waiting, veritably chomping
at the byte, to do it. I hope you seriously consider it.
-Chris
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Christopher Breaux <qvcoachbr0@...> wrote:
>Apology accepted Breaux.
> I stand corrected and apologize for jumping to conclusions, Mr. Smith.
>
> Breaux.
I stand corrected and apologize for jumping to conclusions, Mr. Smith.
Breaux.
I wrote the second missive and there was no insinuation. I just simply couldn't find the d**n thing. I have built 6 Bolger boats and wanted to share it with a friend who has build several Bolger boats and likes small cruisers.
I still admire Phil and also treasure my letters from him.
I am puzzled why Chuck chose to post my inquiry to him in his magazine.
Reed Smith
Ventura, CA
I still admire Phil and also treasure my letters from him.
I am puzzled why Chuck chose to post my inquiry to him in his magazine.
Reed Smith
Ventura, CA
>Â issue got aI wrote the second missive and there was no insinuation. I just simply couldn't find the d**n thing. I have built 6 Bolger boats and wanted to share it with a friend who has build several Bolger boats and likes small cruisers.
> "second life", so to speak, by insinuating that Chuck had removed the >original
> letter to the magazine (I have not asked but assumed that Chuck was ?>pointing out
>
> that the letter was, Â in fact, still out there).Â
I still admire Phil and also treasure my letters from him.
I am puzzled why Chuck chose to post my inquiry to him in his magazine.
Reed Smith
Ventura, CA
1) Duckworks is a straight up operation and Chuck is a good guy.
2) Suzanne has been traumatized; she is coming out of it slowly; and I have found that she is prompt and responsive to my inquiries. (She recently sold me a set pf plans for Fieldmouse with a very fast turnaround.)
3) Perhaps we should spend more time discussing the design, construction, and use of PCB’s marvelous designs than creating squabbles over nebulous inferences…
JohnT
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:
bolger@yahoogroups.com ]On Behalf OfDavid
Sent:Sunday, October 03, 2010
5:01 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject:[bolger] Re: Did I miss
anybody with e-mail requests ?
Indeed. When I stumbled across this little tempest a
few minutes ago, I was amazed. Pretty much all the responses have fit my
experience.
I'll only add that I've known Chuck for several years now. First as a customer,
then as a colleague, and in recent years... as a friend. He's an honest,
gentle, upright man who strives always to serve his customers with excellence.
Any suggestion to the contrary I can only regard as so much uninformed
Codswallop.
Cheers,
David G
Harbor Woodworks
Portland , OR .
***********************
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com,
"dennislancaster36" <dennislancaster36@...> wrote:
>w:st="on">Wa
> thank you John, well said.
>
> Dennis
> "Old Shoe" Pearl
> Bellingham ,
>"John Kohnen" <jhkohnen@> wrote:
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com,
> >this
> > I know Chuck Leinweber of Duckworks, and have to defend him against
> > anonymous "libel." He's not someone who'd "remainmiffed" over being
> > rebuffed by PB&F after offering to market their plans. Do we evenknow if
> > anything like that ever happened? He's not some cutthroat competitor who'dthe
> > maliciously try to harm his rivals (are there any people like that in
> > small boat plans business? I've never encountered any...). He's gotplenty
> > of business to keep himself and Sandra busy, and is more interestedin
> > having time to go boating than in expanding their business until iteats
> > up too much of their life.PB&F. If
> >
> > Chuck only published a letter from a disgruntled customer of
> > there's any truth behind Grover's gripe, there's no libel, and theremay
> > be something to it, given the chaotic state of PB&F in the lastfew years.
> > Acknowledging the troubles of PB&F by no means indicates that Ithink
> > there was ever any intentional wrongdoing by Susanne!business now.
> >
> > PB&F is hardly a competitor with anyone in the boat plans
> > It's just too difficult to find out about the plans Susan sells andthen
> > make a purchase. Short of having someone build and maintain a Websitefor
> > PB&F, like I did for another widow, Pat Atkin, and put together acatalog,
> > Duckworks would be an excellent way to market Bolger's plans. I don'tknow
> > why Susanne would be resistant to the idea. <shrug> Duckworkshandles the
> > online catalog and deals with the payments, the designer ships theplans.
> > The plans are never out of the designers control, so there's nochance of
> > problems like PB&F have had with Common Sense Boats and Duckflatdown in
> > the Antipodes . Jim Michalak has beenhappily using Duckworks for many
> > years to sell his plans, and I'm sure he'd be willing to tell Susannetheir
> > about it, if she'd ask.
> >
> > On Sat, 02 Oct 2010 20:42:04 -0700, c.ruzer wrote:
> >
> > > ...
> > > It's apparent that Duckworks Inc remain miffed by refusal of
> > > proposals from long ago to market PB&F plans. Their currentbehaviour
> > > can only be seen as a strong-arm move toward getting their cutout of
> > > PB&F. Reed's comments give an indication of thedisemination, and
> > > traction the duck-workover has through the interweb.
> >
> >
> > --
> > John (jkohnen@)
> > The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are
> > always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of
> > doubts. (Bertrand Russell)
> >
>
Indeed. When I stumbled across this little tempest a few minutes ago, I was amazed. Pretty much all the responses have fit my experience.
I'll only add that I've known Chuck for several years now. First as a customer, then as a colleague, and in recent years... as a friend. He's an honest, gentle, upright man who strives always to serve his customers with excellence. Any suggestion to the contrary I can only regard as so much uninformed Codswallop.
Cheers,
David G
Harbor Woodworks
Portland, OR.
***********************
I'll only add that I've known Chuck for several years now. First as a customer, then as a colleague, and in recent years... as a friend. He's an honest, gentle, upright man who strives always to serve his customers with excellence. Any suggestion to the contrary I can only regard as so much uninformed Codswallop.
Cheers,
David G
Harbor Woodworks
Portland, OR.
***********************
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "dennislancaster36" <dennislancaster36@...> wrote:
>
> thank you John, well said.
>
> Dennis
> "Old Shoe" Pearl
> Bellingham, Wa
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen" <jhkohnen@> wrote:
> >
> > I know Chuck Leinweber of Duckworks, and have to defend him against this
> > anonymous "libel." He's not someone who'd "remain miffed" over being
> > rebuffed by PB&F after offering to market their plans. Do we even know if
> > anything like that ever happened? He's not some cutthroat competitor who'd
> > maliciously try to harm his rivals (are there any people like that in the
> > small boat plans business? I've never encountered any...). He's got plenty
> > of business to keep himself and Sandra busy, and is more interested in
> > having time to go boating than in expanding their business until it eats
> > up too much of their life.
> >
> > Chuck only published a letter from a disgruntled customer of PB&F. If
> > there's any truth behind Grover's gripe, there's no libel, and there may
> > be something to it, given the chaotic state of PB&F in the last few years.
> > Acknowledging the troubles of PB&F by no means indicates that I think
> > there was ever any intentional wrongdoing by Susanne!
> >
> > PB&F is hardly a competitor with anyone in the boat plans business now.
> > It's just too difficult to find out about the plans Susan sells and then
> > make a purchase. Short of having someone build and maintain a Website for
> > PB&F, like I did for another widow, Pat Atkin, and put together a catalog,
> > Duckworks would be an excellent way to market Bolger's plans. I don't know
> > why Susanne would be resistant to the idea. <shrug> Duckworks handles the
> > online catalog and deals with the payments, the designer ships the plans.
> > The plans are never out of the designers control, so there's no chance of
> > problems like PB&F have had with Common Sense Boats and Duckflat down in
> > the Antipodes. Jim Michalak has been happily using Duckworks for many
> > years to sell his plans, and I'm sure he'd be willing to tell Susanne
> > about it, if she'd ask.
> >
> > On Sat, 02 Oct 2010 20:42:04 -0700, c.ruzer wrote:
> >
> > > ...
> > > It's apparent that Duckworks Inc remain miffed by refusal of their
> > > proposals from long ago to market PB&F plans. Their current behaviour
> > > can only be seen as a strong-arm move toward getting their cut out of
> > > PB&F. Reed's comments give an indication of the disemination, and
> > > traction the duck-workover has through the interweb.
> >
> >
> > --
> > John (jkohnen@)
> > The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are
> > always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of
> > doubts. (Bertrand Russell)
> >
>
About John Kohnen's comment.
0. I agree with John. Getting all twisted-knickery over something at third hand is a waste of brain cells.
1. Get off the "cutthroat competition in boat plans" wagon. There's been enough trash talk over the years, apparently there have been some less-than-straight-up plans sellers, but you know, there are screwups in every business and every industry. That includes "screwups" -- people who take advantage -- and also screwups as in "sh** happens."
2. Frankly, everyone is better off now that people can use the Web to find and purchase plans, to show progress on their boat on a blog or using a photo host, and communicate widely about things that work and things that don't. It might be the best place to put a cleat on a certain design, how to pull a kayak with a mountain bike, or a mistake on blueprints, or what have you.
There was a time when, if someone was selling plans and they were Australian or British, well, good luck getting them. It was costly, slow and rather annoying.
If anyone is the big gorilla in boat plans, it's Chesapeake Light Craft, not Duckworks. I know at one point there was some thought there of handling some of Phil's plans -- many years back. I don't know what happened to the notion or whether it was ever raised with Phil, but I can assure you John Harris is a longtime Bolger fan, not a "competitor" in anything but the most general sense.
But if Susanne's skills don't run to filling plans orders, it might be a good thing for everyone for her to sell through one or another established source. That's her decision, not anyone else's.
3. Designing boats and selling plans are two very different skills. John at CLC designs boats, he does some promotion since it is after all his copany, but he's not on the phone taking orders. In essence, he has employees for that because filling orders is not a good use of *his* time.
Why anyone would want to re-invent the centerboard when there are operations like CLC and Duckworks (and, yes, Dynamite Payson) that handle plans on the Web and by phone is beyond me. Life's too short, folks. Go sailing instead.
4. MAIB is a user-group magazine, nothing more and nothing less. Just because a Bolger cartoon showed up there doesn't mean Bob Hicks has anything to do with problems between a customer and PBF. You might as well say Duckworks is MAIB's cutthroat competitor while you're at it. You'd be wrong, but why not say it?
Sheesh.
I was disappointed the ”I’ll get you and your little dog too!” issue got a
"second life", so to speak, by insinuating that Chuck had removed the original
letter to the magazine (I have not asked but assumed that Chuck was pointing out
that the letter was, in fact, still out there). I was rather confused reading
the second missive and could not exactly make out what the person was actually
talking about. I assume the third rant will be even more incoherent (what is the
expression – don’t open your mouth and prove you are an idiot?).
If I do nothing else in the world of boating, the two things I will treasure the
most are the 400 miles I have logged sailing with Chuck, a prince of a man, and
Mr. Bolger’s rather crumpled letter (apparently Hobo the cat was helping him
with correspondence at that point) dated January 2, 2009 approving the class
worthiness of my folding schooner. In my mind, these are two first class people
and organizations. I would just assume that someone who chooses to resolve an
issue by an open letter to online magazine has lots of time on his hands and/or
poor conflict resolution skills.
Let’s talk about boats.
Cheers!
Breaux
Elsie B.Bolger design #268
________________________________
From: Gabriel K. McAtee <gmcatee@...>
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Cc: John Kohnen <jhkohnen@...>
Sent: Sun, October 3, 2010 11:29:50 AM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Did I miss anybody with e-mail requests ?
I'm sure he would, but not in the same issue, as the response would
come in a subsequent issue. I've not seen any linking between issues
between letters and responses, as you would maybe see in a blog. I am
not in any way accusing Chuck at Duckworks of unwillingness, simply
stating that the Duckworks site does not appear to have that functionality.
"second life", so to speak, by insinuating that Chuck had removed the original
letter to the magazine (I have not asked but assumed that Chuck was pointing out
that the letter was, in fact, still out there). I was rather confused reading
the second missive and could not exactly make out what the person was actually
talking about. I assume the third rant will be even more incoherent (what is the
expression – don’t open your mouth and prove you are an idiot?).
If I do nothing else in the world of boating, the two things I will treasure the
most are the 400 miles I have logged sailing with Chuck, a prince of a man, and
Mr. Bolger’s rather crumpled letter (apparently Hobo the cat was helping him
with correspondence at that point) dated January 2, 2009 approving the class
worthiness of my folding schooner. In my mind, these are two first class people
and organizations. I would just assume that someone who chooses to resolve an
issue by an open letter to online magazine has lots of time on his hands and/or
poor conflict resolution skills.
Let’s talk about boats.
Cheers!
Breaux
Elsie B.Bolger design #268
________________________________
From: Gabriel K. McAtee <gmcatee@...>
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Cc: John Kohnen <jhkohnen@...>
Sent: Sun, October 3, 2010 11:29:50 AM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Did I miss anybody with e-mail requests ?
I'm sure he would, but not in the same issue, as the response would
come in a subsequent issue. I've not seen any linking between issues
between letters and responses, as you would maybe see in a blog. I am
not in any way accusing Chuck at Duckworks of unwillingness, simply
stating that the Duckworks site does not appear to have that functionality.
On 10/3/2010 11:22 AM, John Kohnen wrote:
> What makes you think Chuck wouldn't publish a letter responding to
> Grover's letter?
>
> On Sun, 03 Oct 2010 09:15:41 -0700, Gabriel McA wrote:
>
>> c.ruzer,
>> While I agree that it is unfortunate that that particular letter was
>> published and no opportunity to respond/counter the claims appears to be
>> possible,
>> ...
>
------------------------------------
Bolger rules!!!
- NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978)
282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups
Links
Chuck might not feel it is his place to do that!
Gene T.
Gene T.
On 3 Oct, 2010, at 12:22 PM, John Kohnen wrote:
> What makes you think Chuck wouldn't publish a letter responding to
> Grover's letter?
>
> On Sun, 03 Oct 2010 09:15:41 -0700, Gabriel McA wrote:
>
>> c.ruzer,
>> While I agree that it is unfortunate that that particular letter
>> was
>> published and no opportunity to respond/counter the claims appears
>> to be
>> possible,
I wouldn't think Chuck wants to have the job of chief censor. If people are not given the freedom to voice their opinions we would be in a much poorer world. Most talk free speech until something is said that they disagree with.
Sincerely,
Gene T.
On 3 Oct, 2010, at 12:15 PM, Gabriel K. McAtee wrote:
c.ruzer,
While I agree that it is unfortunate that that particular letter was published and no opportunity to respond/counter the claims appears to be possible, I'd be very hesitant to accuse Duckworks as libel... I suspect that they (Duckworks) are, as has been upheld by the California supreme court recently, considered a publisher & are not responsible for comments/responses/letters posted by 3rd parties on their site.
regards,
Gabriel McAtee in the Chicago, IL suburbs.
Me thinks you should just give him his money back. Not because I think he is right. It would just give him one less thing to bitch about (maybe). And free you as well. Unless he dropped a couple grand your way for a design, I suspect he is the type that expects way too much bang for way too little buck (and I say that as cheap fart myself).
Some of the best people I have ever met are "old farts". Then again, some of the absolute worst people I have met are "old farts". Sometimes there is no pleasing or reasoning with one of the bad ones.
Just my two cents.
Blll "hopes to be one of the good old farts one day" Fish.
-----Original Message-----
From: Susanne@... <philbolger@...>
To: bolger <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Oct 3, 2010 11:54 am
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Did I miss anybody with e-mail requests ?
From: Susanne@... <philbolger@...>
To: bolger <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Oct 3, 2010 11:54 am
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Did I miss anybody with e-mail requests ?
Hello All,
on the NANO issue referred to by "grover". While we expected to be done with them by the time the MAIB article came out, the plans are not finished - close enough - but not finished. He knows it and I could send him unfinished plans but that might not be a good idea either...
To a certain extent he has point - like quite a few folks who are waiting. But based on the hull of FLYING CLOUD, that hull would be immediately buildable should there actually be an urgent project on his agenda. Were that assembly on-going, I would try to reprioritize hard realities on this end to get him what he needs. But I have no indication that such an actual project is planned.
He has my sympathy to a certain extent. But the situation is what it is.
As to the language in such discussions, 'it is the Internet' with often funky names and at times decidely mysterious codes of civility... Phil Bolger's legacy is way more robust.
Susanne Altenburger, PB&F
on the NANO issue referred to by "grover". While we expected to be done with them by the time the MAIB article came out, the plans are not finished - close enough - but not finished. He knows it and I could send him unfinished plans but that might not be a good idea either...
To a certain extent he has point - like quite a few folks who are waiting. But based on the hull of FLYING CLOUD, that hull would be immediately buildable should there actually be an urgent project on his agenda. Were that assembly on-going, I would try to reprioritize hard realities on this end to get him what he needs. But I have no indication that such an actual project is planned.
He has my sympathy to a certain extent. But the situation is what it is.
As to the language in such discussions, 'it is the Internet' with often funky names and at times decidely mysterious codes of civility... Phil Bolger's legacy is way more robust.
Susanne Altenburger, PB&F
----- Original Message -----From:c.ruzerSent:Saturday, October 02, 2010 9:54 PMSubject:[bolger] Re: Did I miss anybody with e-mail requests ?
Susanne,
it's great to hear you're gaining strength, and that progress is being made. More power to you!
In so far as 'normal' and your query about overlooking anybody are concerned, have you addressed the 'grover' libel as published by your competitor plan seller, Duckworks Inc?
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/10/letters.htm#sept
The 4th item down reads:
"DUCKWORKS 2010
Tuesday, August 31, 2010
September Letters
More Advise Wanted & Given
I need your advise. I commisioned Philip Bolger in dec of 2009 to do a very small birdwatcher type boat. I believe it was his last complete set of plans and the details were published in maib. His wife and he even referred to me in the article. The boat is known as the Nano. I have made every type of reasonable attempt to get what I paid for. I have talked to maib publisher... he will do nothing. she is dishonest and has defamed the good name of Mr. Bolger. I am going to start a campaign on every internet site I can find telling this sorry tale. I do not want to do this. I am old and not in good health and so many friends and family are dying. I just want what i paid for... the plans. Do you have any advise, please.
grover
ps... be very careful of any dealings w/ susan attenburger[sp]Mr Bolger's widow"
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/10/letters.htm
Susanne, I looked it up in MAIB here:
MAIB Vol 27 No 2, June 2009, page 42.
Bolger On Design
Nano Cruiser
Water Beetle 10
Design #680
5th paragraph:
"Fast forward to last December when an old client wrote from Texas that he wanted "a brick with a Birdwatcher top." As usual we were behind on all sorts of matters, somewhat exhausted and down from wrestling with too many things for too long. So we thought it would be a therapeutic diversion from matters much more serious in serious times to make a quick drawing showing how a Flying Cloud hull could be modified into a cruiser?!...
...Plans of NanoCruiser Water Beetle-10, our Design #680, are available for $125 to build one boat, sent priority mail..."
The MAIB BOD article includes 2 photos of PCB sailing Flying Cloud, and 1 reproduced sheet showing profile, layout, and optional sailplans.
The 'grover' claims published by Duckworks Inc in the undated 'letter' may pehaps be true, and have some legal if not moral defence to charges of libel and consequent damages. Perhaps this fellow, grover, did commission the design. Perhaps he paid in advance for same, and perhaps more than the quoted $125 plans price? If so he has his years, 08/09, a little mixed up, but perhaps he has actually been overlooked by PB&F? Duckworks, a competitor in the boat plans retail market, will continue to make a meal of out of this kind of thing as they have in the past.
People pop up in various yahoo groups advising others to stay well clear of PB&F. They recount 'friends' cautionary horror stories. This duckworks story has gotten some traction instead of retraction.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Susanne@..." <philbolger@...> wrote:
>
> Hello All,
> I hope I am up to date now...?!
>
> It seems that I'll be able to share Phil Bolger's (and my) thinking on the Commercial Fisheries before a rather untypical audience; Phil would be tickled... I will offer details later.
>
> Gaining strength and sleeping rythms - takes long... - and tackling one must-do after the other (as most of us have to...). Things won't be 'normal' for a good while - if ever. But progress is being made.
>
> Susanne Altenburger, PB&F
>
Hello All,
on the NANO issue referred to by "grover". While we expected to be done with them by the time the MAIB article came out, the plans are not finished - close enough - but not finished. He knows it and I could send him unfinished plans but that might not be a good idea either...
To a certain extent he has point - like quite a few folks who are waiting. But based on the hull of FLYING CLOUD, that hull would be immediately buildable should there actually be an urgent project on his agenda. Were that assembly on-going, I would try to reprioritize hard realities on this end to get him what he needs. But I have no indication that such an actual project is planned.
He has my sympathy to a certain extent. But the situation is what it is.
As to the language in such discussions, 'it is the Internet' with often funky names and at times decidely mysterious codes of civility... Phil Bolger's legacy is way more robust.
Susanne Altenburger, PB&F
on the NANO issue referred to by "grover". While we expected to be done with them by the time the MAIB article came out, the plans are not finished - close enough - but not finished. He knows it and I could send him unfinished plans but that might not be a good idea either...
To a certain extent he has point - like quite a few folks who are waiting. But based on the hull of FLYING CLOUD, that hull would be immediately buildable should there actually be an urgent project on his agenda. Were that assembly on-going, I would try to reprioritize hard realities on this end to get him what he needs. But I have no indication that such an actual project is planned.
He has my sympathy to a certain extent. But the situation is what it is.
As to the language in such discussions, 'it is the Internet' with often funky names and at times decidely mysterious codes of civility... Phil Bolger's legacy is way more robust.
Susanne Altenburger, PB&F
----- Original Message -----From:c.ruzerSent:Saturday, October 02, 2010 9:54 PMSubject:[bolger] Re: Did I miss anybody with e-mail requests ?
Susanne,
it's great to hear you're gaining strength, and that progress is being made. More power to you!
In so far as 'normal' and your query about overlooking anybody are concerned, have you addressed the 'grover' libel as published by your competitor plan seller, Duckworks Inc?
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/10/letters.htm#sept
The 4th item down reads:
"DUCKWORKS 2010
Tuesday, August 31, 2010
September Letters
More Advise Wanted & Given
I need your advise. I commisioned Philip Bolger in dec of 2009 to do a very small birdwatcher type boat. I believe it was his last complete set of plans and the details were published in maib. His wife and he even referred to me in the article. The boat is known as the Nano. I have made every type of reasonable attempt to get what I paid for. I have talked to maib publisher... he will do nothing. she is dishonest and has defamed the good name of Mr. Bolger. I am going to start a campaign on every internet site I can find telling this sorry tale. I do not want to do this. I am old and not in good health and so many friends and family are dying. I just want what i paid for... the plans. Do you have any advise, please.
grover
ps... be very careful of any dealings w/ susan attenburger[sp]Mr Bolger's widow"
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/10/letters.htm
Susanne, I looked it up in MAIB here:
MAIB Vol 27 No 2, June 2009, page 42.
Bolger On Design
Nano Cruiser
Water Beetle 10
Design #680
5th paragraph:
"Fast forward to last December when an old client wrote from Texas that he wanted "a brick with a Birdwatcher top." As usual we were behind on all sorts of matters, somewhat exhausted and down from wrestling with too many things for too long. So we thought it would be a therapeutic diversion from matters much more serious in serious times to make a quick drawing showing how a Flying Cloud hull could be modified into a cruiser?!...
...Plans of NanoCruiser Water Beetle-10, our Design #680, are available for $125 to build one boat, sent priority mail..."
The MAIB BOD article includes 2 photos of PCB sailing Flying Cloud, and 1 reproduced sheet showing profile, layout, and optional sailplans.
The 'grover' claims published by Duckworks Inc in the undated 'letter' may pehaps be true, and have some legal if not moral defence to charges of libel and consequent damages. Perhaps this fellow, grover, did commission the design. Perhaps he paid in advance for same, and perhaps more than the quoted $125 plans price? If so he has his years, 08/09, a little mixed up, but perhaps he has actually been overlooked by PB&F? Duckworks, a competitor in the boat plans retail market, will continue to make a meal of out of this kind of thing as they have in the past.
People pop up in various yahoo groups advising others to stay well clear of PB&F. They recount 'friends' cautionary horror stories. This duckworks story has gotten some traction instead of retraction.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Susanne@..." <philbolger@...> wrote:
>
> Hello All,
> I hope I am up to date now...?!
>
> It seems that I'll be able to share Phil Bolger's (and my) thinking on the Commercial Fisheries before a rather untypical audience; Phil would be tickled... I will offer details later.
>
> Gaining strength and sleeping rythms - takes long... - and tackling one must-do after the other (as most of us have to...). Things won't be 'normal' for a good while - if ever. But progress is being made.
>
> Susanne Altenburger, PB&F
>
I'm sure he would, but not in the same issue, as the response would
come in a subsequent issue. I've not seen any linking between issues
between letters and responses, as you would maybe see in a blog. I am
not in any way accusing Chuck at Duckworks of unwillingness, simply
stating that the Duckworks site does not appear to have that functionality.
come in a subsequent issue. I've not seen any linking between issues
between letters and responses, as you would maybe see in a blog. I am
not in any way accusing Chuck at Duckworks of unwillingness, simply
stating that the Duckworks site does not appear to have that functionality.
On 10/3/2010 11:22 AM, John Kohnen wrote:
> What makes you think Chuck wouldn't publish a letter responding to
> Grover's letter?
>
> On Sun, 03 Oct 2010 09:15:41 -0700, Gabriel McA wrote:
>
>> c.ruzer,
>> While I agree that it is unfortunate that that particular letter was
>> published and no opportunity to respond/counter the claims appears to be
>> possible,
>> ...
>
What makes you think Chuck wouldn't publish a letter responding to
Grover's letter?
Grover's letter?
On Sun, 03 Oct 2010 09:15:41 -0700, Gabriel McA wrote:
> c.ruzer,
> While I agree that it is unfortunate that that particular letter was
> published and no opportunity to respond/counter the claims appears to be
> possible,
> ...
--
John (jkohnen@...)
I have no truck with lettuce, cabbage, and similar chlorophyll.
Any dietician will tell you that a running foot of apple strudel
contains four times the vitamins of a bushel of beans. (S. J.
Perelman)
c.ruzer,
While I agree that it is unfortunate that that particular letter was published and no opportunity to respond/counter the claims appears to be possible, I'd be very hesitant to accuse Duckworks as libel... I suspect that they (Duckworks) are, as has been upheld by the California supreme court recently, considered a publisher & are not responsible for comments/responses/letters posted by 3rd parties on their site.
regards,
Gabriel McAtee in the Chicago, IL suburbs.
While I agree that it is unfortunate that that particular letter was published and no opportunity to respond/counter the claims appears to be possible, I'd be very hesitant to accuse Duckworks as libel... I suspect that they (Duckworks) are, as has been upheld by the California supreme court recently, considered a publisher & are not responsible for comments/responses/letters posted by 3rd parties on their site.
regards,
Gabriel McAtee in the Chicago, IL suburbs.
On 10/2/2010 8:54 PM, c.ruzer wrote:
Susanne,
it's great to hear you're gaining strength, and that progress is being made. More power to you!
In so far as 'normal' and your query about overlooking anybody are concerned, have you addressed the 'grover' libel as published by your competitor plan seller, Duckworks Inc?
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/10/letters.htm#sept
The 4th item down reads:
"DUCKWORKS 2010
Tuesday, August 31, 2010
September Letters
More Advise Wanted & Given
I need your advise. I commisioned Philip Bolger in dec of 2009 to do a very small birdwatcher type boat. I believe it was his last complete set of plans and the details were published in maib. His wife and he even referred to me in the article. The boat is known as the Nano. I have made every type of reasonable attempt to get what I paid for. I have talked to maib publisher... he will do nothing. she is dishonest and has defamed the good name of Mr. Bolger. I am going to start a campaign on every internet site I can find telling this sorry tale. I do not want to do this. I am old and not in good health and so many friends and family are dying. I just want what i paid for... the plans. Do you have any advise, please.
grover
ps... be very careful of any dealings w/ susan attenburger[sp]Mr Bolger's widow"
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/10/letters.htm
Susanne, I looked it up in MAIB here:
MAIB Vol 27 No 2, June 2009, page 42.
Bolger On Design
Nano Cruiser
Water Beetle 10
Design #680
5th paragraph:
"Fast forward to last December when an old client wrote from Texas that he wanted "a brick with a Birdwatcher top." As usual we were behind on all sorts of matters, somewhat exhausted and down from wrestling with too many things for too long. So we thought it would be a therapeutic diversion from matters much more serious in serious times to make a quick drawing showing how a Flying Cloud hull could be modified into a cruiser?!...
...Plans of NanoCruiser Water Beetle-10, our Design #680, are available for $125 to build one boat, sent priority mail..."
The MAIB BOD article includes 2 photos of PCB sailing Flying Cloud, and 1 reproduced sheet showing profile, layout, and optional sailplans.
The 'grover' claims published by Duckworks Inc in the undated 'letter' may pehaps be true, and have some legal if not moral defence to charges of libel and consequent damages. Perhaps this fellow, grover, did commission the design. Perhaps he paid in advance for same, and perhaps more than the quoted $125 plans price? If so he has his years, 08/09, a little mixed up, but perhaps he has actually been overlooked by PB&F? Duckworks, a competitor in the boat plans retail market, will continue to make a meal of out of this kind of thing as they have in the past.
People pop up in various yahoo groups advising others to stay well clear of PB&F. They recount 'friends' cautionary horror stories. This duckworks story has gotten some traction instead of retraction.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com,"Susanne@..."<philbolger@...>wrote:
>
> Hello All,
> I hope I am up to date now...?!
>
> It seems that I'll be able to share Phil Bolger's (and my) thinking on the Commercial Fisheries before a rather untypical audience; Phil would be tickled... I will offer details later.
>
> Gaining strength and sleeping rythms - takes long... - and tackling one must-do after the other (as most of us have to...). Things won't be 'normal' for a good while - if ever. But progress is being made.
>
> Susanne Altenburger, PB&F
>
I concur. Duckworks and Chuck and Sandra meet very high standards in my estimation. To say anything different shows you just are not paying attention.
Sincerely,
Gene T.
On 3 Oct, 2010, at 10:57 AM, Alvan Eames wrote:
Hear hear, John. I cannot stand by and read without comment, those remarks detrimental to Chuck, of Duckworks.
His integrity has been demonstrated many times over many years.
ÆAlvan Eames,UK
From: John Kohnen <jhkohnen@...>
To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, October 3, 2010 11:02:24 AM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Did I miss anybody with e-mail requests ?
I know Chuck Leinweber of Duckworks, and have to defend him against this
anonymous "libel." He's not someone who'd "remain miffed" over being
rebuffed by PB&F after offering to market their plans. Do we even know if
anything like that ever happened? He's not some cutthroat competitor who'd
maliciously try to harm his rivals (are there any people like that in the
small boat plans business? I've never encountered any...). He's got plenty
of business to keep himself and Sandra busy, and is more interested in
having time to go boating than in expanding their business until it eats
up too much of their life.
Chuck only published a letter from a disgruntled customer of PB&F. If
there's any truth behind Grover's gripe, there's no libel, and there may
be something to it, given the chaotic state of PB&F in the last few years.
Acknowledging the troubles of PB&F by no means indicates that I think
there was ever any intentional wrongdoing by Susanne!
PB&F is hardly a competitor with anyone in the boat plans business now.
It's just too difficult to find out about the plans Susan sells and then
make a purchase. Short of having someone build and maintain a Website for
PB&F, like I did for another widow, Pat Atkin, and put together a catalog,
Duckworks would be an excellent way to market Bolger's plans. I don't know
why Susanne would be resistant to the idea. <shrug> Duckworks handles the
online catalog and deals with the payments, the designer ships the plans.
The plans are never out of the designers control, so there's no chance of
problems like PB&F have had with Common Sense Boats and Duckflat down in
the Antipodes. Jim Michalak has been happily using Duckworks for many
years to sell his plans, and I'm sure he'd be willing to tell Susanne
about it, if she'd ask.
On Sat, 02 Oct 2010 20:42:04 -0700, c.ruzer wrote:
> ...
> It's apparent that Duckworks Inc remain miffed by refusal of their
> proposals from long ago to market PB&F plans. Their current behaviour
> can only be seen as a strong-arm move toward getting their cut out of
> PB&F. Reed's comments give an indication of the disemination, and
> traction the duck-workover has through the interweb.
--
John (jkohnen@...)
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are
always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of
doubts. (Bertrand Russell)
------------------------------------
Bolger rules!!!
- NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
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I add my support to the comments of John Kohnen and Dennis Lancaster. Though I do not personally know any of the players in this set ( Suzanne, Chuck & Sandra) I have dealt with Duckworks Plans. There was a screw up ( not their fault) which they sorted out promptly. I get the sense that they are straight forward, honest people whose hobby and interests launched them into a business as well as an avocation. The business part hasn't taken over their love of boating and the enjoyment of people like those on this site who are builders and participants. That they published "Grover's" complaint does not equate to using it as a marketing tool. They issue an e-magazine which presumably allows comment much as any newspaper does. Don't shoot the messenger.
Dennis
Scram Pram
Vancouver, BC
To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
From: dennislancaster36@...
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2010 14:35:12 +0000
Subject: [bolger] Re: Did I miss anybody with e-mail requests ?
Dennis
Scram Pram
Vancouver, BC
To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
From: dennislancaster36@...
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2010 14:35:12 +0000
Subject: [bolger] Re: Did I miss anybody with e-mail requests ?
thank you John, well said.
Dennis
"Old Shoe" Pearl
Bellingham, Wa
Dennis
"Old Shoe" Pearl
Bellingham, Wa
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen" <jhkohnen@...> wrote:
>
> I know Chuck Leinweber of Duckworks, and have to defend him against this
> anonymous "libel." He's not someone who'd "remain miffed" over being
> rebuffed by PB&F after offering to market their plans. Do we even know if
> anything like that ever happened? He's not some cutthroat competitor who'd
> maliciously try to harm his rivals (are there any people like that in the
> small boat plans business? I've never encountered any...). He's got plenty
> of business to keep himself and Sandra busy, and is more interested in
> having time to go boating than in expanding their business until it eats
> up too much of their life.
>
> Chuck only published a letter from a disgruntled customer of PB&F. If
> there's any truth behind Grover's gripe, there's no libel, and there may
> be something to it, given the chaotic state of PB&F in the last few years.
> Acknowledging the troubles of PB&F by no means indicates that I think
> there was ever any intentional wrongdoing by Susanne!
>
> PB&F is hardly a competitor with anyone in the boat plans business now.
> It's just too difficult to find out about the plans Susan sells and then
> make a purchase. Short of having someone build and maintain a Website for
> PB&F, like I did for another widow, Pat Atkin, and put together a catalog,
> Duckworks would be an excellent way to market Bolger's plans. I don't know
> why Susanne would be resistant to the idea. <shrug> Duckworks handles the
> online catalog and deals with the payments, the designer ships the plans.
> The plans are never out of the designers control, so there's no chance of
> problems like PB&F have had with Common Sense Boats and Duckflat down in
> the Antipodes. Jim Michalak has been happily using Duckworks for many
> years to sell his plans, and I'm sure he'd be willing to tell Susanne
> about it, if she'd ask.
>
> On Sat, 02 Oct 2010 20:42:04 -0700, c.ruzer wrote:
>
> > ...
> > It's apparent that Duckworks Inc remain miffed by refusal of their
> > proposals from long ago to market PB&F plans. Their current behaviour
> > can only be seen as a strong-arm move toward getting their cut out of
> > PB&F. Reed's comments give an indication of the disemination, and
> > traction the duck-workover has through the interweb.
>
>
> --
> John (jkohnen@...)
> The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are
> always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of
> doubts. (Bertrand Russell)
>
Hear hear, John. I cannot stand by and read without comment, those remarks detrimental to Chuck, of Duckworks.
His integrity has been demonstrated many times over many years.
Æ
Alvan Eames,UK
From:John Kohnen <jhkohnen@...>
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent:Sun, October 3, 2010 11:02:24 AM
Subject:Re: [bolger] Re: Did I miss anybody with e-mail requests ?
I know Chuck Leinweber of Duckworks, and have to defend him against this
anonymous "libel." He's not someone who'd "remain miffed" over being
rebuffed by PB&F after offering to market their plans. Do we even know if
anything like that ever happened? He's not some cutthroat competitor who'd
maliciously try to harm his rivals (are there any people like that in the
small boat plans business? I've never encountered any...). He's got plenty
of business to keep himself and Sandra busy, and is more interested in
having time to go boating than in expanding their business until it eats
up too much of their life.
Chuck only published a letter from a disgruntled customer of PB&F. If
there's any truth behind Grover's gripe, there's no libel, and there may
be something to it, given the chaotic state of PB&F in the last few years.
Acknowledging the troubles of PB&F by no means indicates that I think
there was ever any intentional wrongdoing by Susanne!
PB&F is hardly a competitor with anyone in the boat plans business now.
It's just too difficult to find out about the plans Susan sells and then
make a purchase. Short of having someone build and maintain a Website for
PB&F, like I did for another widow, Pat Atkin, and put together a catalog,
Duckworks would be an excellent way to market Bolger's plans. I don't know
why Susanne would be resistant to the idea. <shrug> Duckworks handles the
online catalog and deals with the payments, the designer ships the plans.
The plans are never out of the designers control, so there's no chance of
problems like PB&F have had with Common Sense Boats and Duckflat down in
the Antipodes. Jim Michalak has been happily using Duckworks for many
years to sell his plans, and I'm sure he'd be willing to tell Susanne
about it, if she'd ask.
His integrity has been demonstrated many times over many years.
Æ
From:John Kohnen <jhkohnen@...>
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent:Sun, October 3, 2010 11:02:24 AM
Subject:Re: [bolger] Re: Did I miss anybody with e-mail requests ?
I know Chuck Leinweber of Duckworks, and have to defend him against this
anonymous "libel." He's not someone who'd "remain miffed" over being
rebuffed by PB&F after offering to market their plans. Do we even know if
anything like that ever happened? He's not some cutthroat competitor who'd
maliciously try to harm his rivals (are there any people like that in the
small boat plans business? I've never encountered any...). He's got plenty
of business to keep himself and Sandra busy, and is more interested in
having time to go boating than in expanding their business until it eats
up too much of their life.
Chuck only published a letter from a disgruntled customer of PB&F. If
there's any truth behind Grover's gripe, there's no libel, and there may
be something to it, given the chaotic state of PB&F in the last few years.
Acknowledging the troubles of PB&F by no means indicates that I think
there was ever any intentional wrongdoing by Susanne!
PB&F is hardly a competitor with anyone in the boat plans business now.
It's just too difficult to find out about the plans Susan sells and then
make a purchase. Short of having someone build and maintain a Website for
PB&F, like I did for another widow, Pat Atkin, and put together a catalog,
Duckworks would be an excellent way to market Bolger's plans. I don't know
why Susanne would be resistant to the idea. <shrug> Duckworks handles the
online catalog and deals with the payments, the designer ships the plans.
The plans are never out of the designers control, so there's no chance of
problems like PB&F have had with Common Sense Boats and Duckflat down in
the Antipodes. Jim Michalak has been happily using Duckworks for many
years to sell his plans, and I'm sure he'd be willing to tell Susanne
about it, if she'd ask.
On Sat, 02 Oct 2010 20:42:04 -0700, c.ruzer wrote:
> ...
> It's apparent that Duckworks Inc remain miffed by refusal of their
> proposals from long ago to market PB&F plans. Their current behaviour
> can only be seen as a strong-arm move toward getting their cut out of
> PB&F. Reed's comments give an indication of the disemination, and
> traction the duck-workover has through the interweb.
--
John (jkohnen@...)
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are
always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of
doubts. (Bertrand Russell)
------------------------------------
Bolger rules!!!
- NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/
<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional
<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/join
(Yahoo! ID required)
<*> To change settings via email:
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<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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thank you John, well said.
Dennis
"Old Shoe" Pearl
Bellingham, Wa
Dennis
"Old Shoe" Pearl
Bellingham, Wa
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen" <jhkohnen@...> wrote:
>
> I know Chuck Leinweber of Duckworks, and have to defend him against this
> anonymous "libel." He's not someone who'd "remain miffed" over being
> rebuffed by PB&F after offering to market their plans. Do we even know if
> anything like that ever happened? He's not some cutthroat competitor who'd
> maliciously try to harm his rivals (are there any people like that in the
> small boat plans business? I've never encountered any...). He's got plenty
> of business to keep himself and Sandra busy, and is more interested in
> having time to go boating than in expanding their business until it eats
> up too much of their life.
>
> Chuck only published a letter from a disgruntled customer of PB&F. If
> there's any truth behind Grover's gripe, there's no libel, and there may
> be something to it, given the chaotic state of PB&F in the last few years.
> Acknowledging the troubles of PB&F by no means indicates that I think
> there was ever any intentional wrongdoing by Susanne!
>
> PB&F is hardly a competitor with anyone in the boat plans business now.
> It's just too difficult to find out about the plans Susan sells and then
> make a purchase. Short of having someone build and maintain a Website for
> PB&F, like I did for another widow, Pat Atkin, and put together a catalog,
> Duckworks would be an excellent way to market Bolger's plans. I don't know
> why Susanne would be resistant to the idea. <shrug> Duckworks handles the
> online catalog and deals with the payments, the designer ships the plans.
> The plans are never out of the designers control, so there's no chance of
> problems like PB&F have had with Common Sense Boats and Duckflat down in
> the Antipodes. Jim Michalak has been happily using Duckworks for many
> years to sell his plans, and I'm sure he'd be willing to tell Susanne
> about it, if she'd ask.
>
> On Sat, 02 Oct 2010 20:42:04 -0700, c.ruzer wrote:
>
> > ...
> > It's apparent that Duckworks Inc remain miffed by refusal of their
> > proposals from long ago to market PB&F plans. Their current behaviour
> > can only be seen as a strong-arm move toward getting their cut out of
> > PB&F. Reed's comments give an indication of the disemination, and
> > traction the duck-workover has through the interweb.
>
>
> --
> John (jkohnen@...)
> The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are
> always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of
> doubts. (Bertrand Russell)
>
I know Chuck Leinweber of Duckworks, and have to defend him against this
anonymous "libel." He's not someone who'd "remain miffed" over being
rebuffed by PB&F after offering to market their plans. Do we even know if
anything like that ever happened? He's not some cutthroat competitor who'd
maliciously try to harm his rivals (are there any people like that in the
small boat plans business? I've never encountered any...). He's got plenty
of business to keep himself and Sandra busy, and is more interested in
having time to go boating than in expanding their business until it eats
up too much of their life.
Chuck only published a letter from a disgruntled customer of PB&F. If
there's any truth behind Grover's gripe, there's no libel, and there may
be something to it, given the chaotic state of PB&F in the last few years.
Acknowledging the troubles of PB&F by no means indicates that I think
there was ever any intentional wrongdoing by Susanne!
PB&F is hardly a competitor with anyone in the boat plans business now.
It's just too difficult to find out about the plans Susan sells and then
make a purchase. Short of having someone build and maintain a Website for
PB&F, like I did for another widow, Pat Atkin, and put together a catalog,
Duckworks would be an excellent way to market Bolger's plans. I don't know
why Susanne would be resistant to the idea. <shrug> Duckworks handles the
online catalog and deals with the payments, the designer ships the plans.
The plans are never out of the designers control, so there's no chance of
problems like PB&F have had with Common Sense Boats and Duckflat down in
the Antipodes. Jim Michalak has been happily using Duckworks for many
years to sell his plans, and I'm sure he'd be willing to tell Susanne
about it, if she'd ask.
anonymous "libel." He's not someone who'd "remain miffed" over being
rebuffed by PB&F after offering to market their plans. Do we even know if
anything like that ever happened? He's not some cutthroat competitor who'd
maliciously try to harm his rivals (are there any people like that in the
small boat plans business? I've never encountered any...). He's got plenty
of business to keep himself and Sandra busy, and is more interested in
having time to go boating than in expanding their business until it eats
up too much of their life.
Chuck only published a letter from a disgruntled customer of PB&F. If
there's any truth behind Grover's gripe, there's no libel, and there may
be something to it, given the chaotic state of PB&F in the last few years.
Acknowledging the troubles of PB&F by no means indicates that I think
there was ever any intentional wrongdoing by Susanne!
PB&F is hardly a competitor with anyone in the boat plans business now.
It's just too difficult to find out about the plans Susan sells and then
make a purchase. Short of having someone build and maintain a Website for
PB&F, like I did for another widow, Pat Atkin, and put together a catalog,
Duckworks would be an excellent way to market Bolger's plans. I don't know
why Susanne would be resistant to the idea. <shrug> Duckworks handles the
online catalog and deals with the payments, the designer ships the plans.
The plans are never out of the designers control, so there's no chance of
problems like PB&F have had with Common Sense Boats and Duckflat down in
the Antipodes. Jim Michalak has been happily using Duckworks for many
years to sell his plans, and I'm sure he'd be willing to tell Susanne
about it, if she'd ask.
On Sat, 02 Oct 2010 20:42:04 -0700, c.ruzer wrote:
> ...
> It's apparent that Duckworks Inc remain miffed by refusal of their
> proposals from long ago to market PB&F plans. Their current behaviour
> can only be seen as a strong-arm move toward getting their cut out of
> PB&F. Reed's comments give an indication of the disemination, and
> traction the duck-workover has through the interweb.
--
John (jkohnen@...)
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are
always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of
doubts. (Bertrand Russell)
> Duckworks, a competitor in the boat plans retail market, willTowit, here, now right at the top:
> continue to make a meal of out of this kind of thing as they
> have in the past.
"Sea Trials
Hi Chuck,
Interesting letter you posted on NanoCruiser. I wondered what was up as I've built several Bolger boats and I like small cruisers. Altenberger's writing doesn't hold a candle to Phil's, but that doesn't mean she can't continue the business. I was going to share it with another Bolgerista and it seems to have been removed.
What's going on?
Reed Smith
Ventura, CA
It's still there, Reed - click HERE"http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/10/letters.htm
It's apparent that Duckworks Inc remain miffed by refusal of their proposals from long ago to market PB&F plans. Their current behaviour can only be seen as a strong-arm move toward getting their cut out of PB&F. Reed's comments give an indication of the disemination, and traction the duck-workover has through the interweb.
Susanne,
it's great to hear you're gaining strength, and that progress is being made. More power to you!
In so far as 'normal' and your query about overlooking anybody are concerned, have you addressed the 'grover' libel as published by your competitor plan seller, Duckworks Inc?
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/10/letters.htm#sept
The 4th item down reads:
"DUCKWORKS 2010
Tuesday, August 31, 2010
September Letters
More Advise Wanted & Given
I need your advise. I commisioned Philip Bolger in dec of 2009 to do a very small birdwatcher type boat. I believe it was his last complete set of plans and the details were published in maib. His wife and he even referred to me in the article. The boat is known as the Nano. I have made every type of reasonable attempt to get what I paid for. I have talked to maib publisher... he will do nothing. she is dishonest and has defamed the good name of Mr. Bolger. I am going to start a campaign on every internet site I can find telling this sorry tale. I do not want to do this. I am old and not in good health and so many friends and family are dying. I just want what i paid for... the plans. Do you have any advise, please.
grover
ps... be very careful of any dealings w/ susan attenburger[sp]Mr Bolger's widow"
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/10/letters.htm
Susanne, I looked it up in MAIB here:
MAIB Vol 27 No 2, June 2009, page 42.
Bolger On Design
Nano Cruiser
Water Beetle 10
Design #680
5th paragraph:
"Fast forward to last December when an old client wrote from Texas that he wanted "a brick with a Birdwatcher top." As usual we were behind on all sorts of matters, somewhat exhausted and down from wrestling with too many things for too long. So we thought it would be a therapeutic diversion from matters much more serious in serious times to make a quick drawing showing how a Flying Cloud hull could be modified into a cruiser?!...
...Plans of NanoCruiser Water Beetle-10, our Design #680, are available for $125 to build one boat, sent priority mail..."
The MAIB BOD article includes 2 photos of PCB sailing Flying Cloud, and 1 reproduced sheet showing profile, layout, and optional sailplans.
The 'grover' claims published by Duckworks Inc in the undated 'letter' may pehaps be true, and have some legal if not moral defence to charges of libel and consequent damages. Perhaps this fellow, grover, did commission the design. Perhaps he paid in advance for same, and perhaps more than the quoted $125 plans price? If so he has his years, 08/09, a little mixed up, but perhaps he has actually been overlooked by PB&F? Duckworks, a competitor in the boat plans retail market, will continue to make a meal of out of this kind of thing as they have in the past.
People pop up in various yahoo groups advising others to stay well clear of PB&F. They recount 'friends' cautionary horror stories. This duckworks story has gotten some traction instead of retraction.
it's great to hear you're gaining strength, and that progress is being made. More power to you!
In so far as 'normal' and your query about overlooking anybody are concerned, have you addressed the 'grover' libel as published by your competitor plan seller, Duckworks Inc?
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/10/letters.htm#sept
The 4th item down reads:
"DUCKWORKS 2010
Tuesday, August 31, 2010
September Letters
More Advise Wanted & Given
I need your advise. I commisioned Philip Bolger in dec of 2009 to do a very small birdwatcher type boat. I believe it was his last complete set of plans and the details were published in maib. His wife and he even referred to me in the article. The boat is known as the Nano. I have made every type of reasonable attempt to get what I paid for. I have talked to maib publisher... he will do nothing. she is dishonest and has defamed the good name of Mr. Bolger. I am going to start a campaign on every internet site I can find telling this sorry tale. I do not want to do this. I am old and not in good health and so many friends and family are dying. I just want what i paid for... the plans. Do you have any advise, please.
grover
ps... be very careful of any dealings w/ susan attenburger[sp]Mr Bolger's widow"
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/10/letters.htm
Susanne, I looked it up in MAIB here:
MAIB Vol 27 No 2, June 2009, page 42.
Bolger On Design
Nano Cruiser
Water Beetle 10
Design #680
5th paragraph:
"Fast forward to last December when an old client wrote from Texas that he wanted "a brick with a Birdwatcher top." As usual we were behind on all sorts of matters, somewhat exhausted and down from wrestling with too many things for too long. So we thought it would be a therapeutic diversion from matters much more serious in serious times to make a quick drawing showing how a Flying Cloud hull could be modified into a cruiser?!...
...Plans of NanoCruiser Water Beetle-10, our Design #680, are available for $125 to build one boat, sent priority mail..."
The MAIB BOD article includes 2 photos of PCB sailing Flying Cloud, and 1 reproduced sheet showing profile, layout, and optional sailplans.
The 'grover' claims published by Duckworks Inc in the undated 'letter' may pehaps be true, and have some legal if not moral defence to charges of libel and consequent damages. Perhaps this fellow, grover, did commission the design. Perhaps he paid in advance for same, and perhaps more than the quoted $125 plans price? If so he has his years, 08/09, a little mixed up, but perhaps he has actually been overlooked by PB&F? Duckworks, a competitor in the boat plans retail market, will continue to make a meal of out of this kind of thing as they have in the past.
People pop up in various yahoo groups advising others to stay well clear of PB&F. They recount 'friends' cautionary horror stories. This duckworks story has gotten some traction instead of retraction.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Susanne@..." <philbolger@...> wrote:
>
> Hello All,
> I hope I am up to date now...?!
>
> It seems that I'll be able to share Phil Bolger's (and my) thinking on the Commercial Fisheries before a rather untypical audience; Phil would be tickled... I will offer details later.
>
> Gaining strength and sleeping rythms - takes long... - and tackling one must-do after the other (as most of us have to...). Things won't be 'normal' for a good while - if ever. But progress is being made.
>
> Susanne Altenburger, PB&F
>
Hello All,
I hope I am up to date now...?!
It seems that I'll be able to share Phil Bolger's (and my) thinking on the Commercial Fisheries before a rather untypical audience; Phil would be tickled... I will offer details later.
Gaining strength and sleeping rythms - takes long... - and tackling one must-do after the other (as most of us have to...). Things won't be 'normal' for a good while - if ever. But progress is being made.
Susanne Altenburger, PB&F
I hope I am up to date now...?!
It seems that I'll be able to share Phil Bolger's (and my) thinking on the Commercial Fisheries before a rather untypical audience; Phil would be tickled... I will offer details later.
Gaining strength and sleeping rythms - takes long... - and tackling one must-do after the other (as most of us have to...). Things won't be 'normal' for a good while - if ever. But progress is being made.
Susanne Altenburger, PB&F