Re: Storm Petrel (was...Featherwind or Dave Carnell's Nutmeg?)
A 10 sheet boat? 9 off 3/8" plywood sheets - required when hatch enlarged to doghouse? Plus part of another for the modified ply keel? (The remainder might be sufficient for the interchangeable low hatch cover per Stephen's fishing scenario.)
Looking at the modified keel sketchhttp://www.belljar.net/bolgersp.htm;and
"What follows are excerpts from Phil's letter to me:
The plywood keel is likely to be stronger for beaching etc. than the designed steel one though the latter could readily be strengthened with more flange to the hull. In ballasting the keel, allow for the greater buoyancy of the thicker wood keel."
Would the draft now be reduced to approximately 12"?
Would that stronger, shallower keel make Storm Petrel more of an easy trailerable boat? The keel so shallow as to present little added difficulty to launch and retreival? So shallow it may in fact support no other weight on the trailer, hung from the bunk supported hull?
That seems to be what's occuring here with another extremely shallow keeled, 10 off 3/8" sheet boat, Catfish:http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=118161&id=100001418541739&l=cac0d0c18e&ref=fbx_album
.....................................
Catfish Beachcruiser
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=16353&id=100001418541739&l=cac0d0c18e&page=3
http://www.dca.uk.com/safety.htm- does CF satisfy?
http://www.messingaboutinboats.com/archives/mbissuejuly00.html
http://instantboats.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2568
http://instantboats.com/phpBB3/search.php?st=0&sk=t&sd=d&sr=posts&keywords=catfish
http://www.chebacco.com/chebacco_news/chebac12.htm
http://www.boatdesign.com/jumps/mckib/CFSweetP1640x480.jpg
Looking at the modified keel sketchhttp://www.belljar.net/bolgersp.htm;and
"What follows are excerpts from Phil's letter to me:
The plywood keel is likely to be stronger for beaching etc. than the designed steel one though the latter could readily be strengthened with more flange to the hull. In ballasting the keel, allow for the greater buoyancy of the thicker wood keel."
Would the draft now be reduced to approximately 12"?
Would that stronger, shallower keel make Storm Petrel more of an easy trailerable boat? The keel so shallow as to present little added difficulty to launch and retreival? So shallow it may in fact support no other weight on the trailer, hung from the bunk supported hull?
That seems to be what's occuring here with another extremely shallow keeled, 10 off 3/8" sheet boat, Catfish:http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=118161&id=100001418541739&l=cac0d0c18e&ref=fbx_album
.....................................
Catfish Beachcruiser
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=16353&id=100001418541739&l=cac0d0c18e&page=3
http://www.dca.uk.com/safety.htm- does CF satisfy?
http://www.messingaboutinboats.com/archives/mbissuejuly00.html
http://instantboats.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2568
http://instantboats.com/phpBB3/search.php?st=0&sk=t&sd=d&sr=posts&keywords=catfish
http://www.chebacco.com/chebacco_news/chebac12.htm
http://www.boatdesign.com/jumps/mckib/CFSweetP1640x480.jpg
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "prairiedog2332" <arvent@...> wrote:
>
> I have often "built" Storm Petrel in my mind and it seemed instant
> build to me - in fact a very elegant process, following the keys in
> "Different Boats".
>
> The raised hatch as shown was restricted in size due the constraints of
> staying within the plywood sheet requirement number. Add another sheet
> and it could be enlarged to accommodate two people sitting side by side,
> making it into a dog house with drop board and companionway. Perhaps
> even a slot top.
>
> The plans were modified to have a shallow plywood keel filled with lead
> a la Micro resulting in less draft (but more plywood) . Somewhere I
> heard a larger sail was suggested. Balance lug like on Zephyr I believe,
> to improve light air performance.
>
> I could envision this as a very safe boat when out on a lake where
> thunderstorms might build in the afternoon, like on the mountain lakes
> near me. It could also serve as a very safe motorboat without the
> sailing rig to go fishing in.
>
>http://www.belljar.net/bolgersp.htm
>
> Although Mr. Bolger stated it was not one of his "best efforts" I fail
> to see anything wrong with it and a lot to like!
>
> Nels
I have often "built" Storm Petrel in my mind and it seemed instant
build to me - in fact a very elegant process, following the keys in
"Different Boats".
The raised hatch as shown was restricted in size due the constraints of
staying within the plywood sheet requirement number. Add another sheet
and it could be enlarged to accommodate two people sitting side by side,
making it into a dog house with drop board and companionway. Perhaps
even a slot top.
The plans were modified to have a shallow plywood keel filled with lead
a la Micro resulting in less draft (but more plywood) . Somewhere I
heard a larger sail was suggested. Balance lug like on Zephyr I believe,
to improve light air performance.
I could envision this as a very safe boat when out on a lake where
thunderstorms might build in the afternoon, like on the mountain lakes
near me. It could also serve as a very safe motorboat without the
sailing rig to go fishing in.
http://www.belljar.net/bolgersp.htm
Although Mr. Bolger stated it was not one of his "best efforts" I fail
to see anything wrong with it and a lot to like!
Nels
build to me - in fact a very elegant process, following the keys in
"Different Boats".
The raised hatch as shown was restricted in size due the constraints of
staying within the plywood sheet requirement number. Add another sheet
and it could be enlarged to accommodate two people sitting side by side,
making it into a dog house with drop board and companionway. Perhaps
even a slot top.
The plans were modified to have a shallow plywood keel filled with lead
a la Micro resulting in less draft (but more plywood) . Somewhere I
heard a larger sail was suggested. Balance lug like on Zephyr I believe,
to improve light air performance.
I could envision this as a very safe boat when out on a lake where
thunderstorms might build in the afternoon, like on the mountain lakes
near me. It could also serve as a very safe motorboat without the
sailing rig to go fishing in.
http://www.belljar.net/bolgersp.htm
Although Mr. Bolger stated it was not one of his "best efforts" I fail
to see anything wrong with it and a lot to like!
Nels
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "c.ruzer" <c.ruzer@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> That's mostly how the idea of the boat comes across to me too. Dead
set, if I lived on a deep water, and rugged coast...
>
> One other thing...
>
> AFAIK there have been three SPs built. One keeless, presumably
rigless, and one built reversing the key sequence in that the sides were
preassembled to the bulkheads and transom _first_ then somehow a cleat
(serving as the deck edge fastening frame) was fitted to the inner sides
(using a laser level?), and then the deck was offered to that assembly
_second_. Do the circumstances of this small sample set of builds give
another indication of why SP is not one of the Instant Fleet?
>
>
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Matthew L" owlnmole@ wrote:
> >
> > I see your point, though several of the designs that Dynamite sells
aren't so instant, either. But you may be right about not wanting to
promote a design that might get tyro builders, or tyro sailors, in
trouble.
> >
> > Personally, I always saw Storm Petrel as a fun little boat to keep
at a mooring or dock for daysailing if you lived near deep water. (I
grew up in Rhode Island on Narragansett Bay.)
> >
> > It's a comfort knowing that the extra clothes and lunch, and perhaps
sleeping bags for camp cruising, would stay secure and dry. I think you
could even work out an arrangement to use a portable toilet under that
little house--a luxury in what is essentially a 16' skiff.
> >
> > And even if you never tested the "corked-bottle routine," that
coffin-like cabin could be a place to take a nap, or wait out a drizzle
warm and dry, or if you were VERY friendly with your significant
other.... ;-p
>
That's mostly how the idea of the boat comes across to me too. Dead set, if I lived on a deep water, and rugged coast...
One other thing...
AFAIK there have been three SPs built. One keeless, presumably rigless, and one built reversing the key sequence in that the sides were preassembled to the bulkheads and transom _first_ then somehow a cleat (serving as the deck edge fastening frame) was fitted to the inner sides (using a laser level?), and then the deck was offered to that assembly _second_. Do the circumstances of this small sample set of builds give another indication of why SP is not one of the Instant Fleet?
One other thing...
AFAIK there have been three SPs built. One keeless, presumably rigless, and one built reversing the key sequence in that the sides were preassembled to the bulkheads and transom _first_ then somehow a cleat (serving as the deck edge fastening frame) was fitted to the inner sides (using a laser level?), and then the deck was offered to that assembly _second_. Do the circumstances of this small sample set of builds give another indication of why SP is not one of the Instant Fleet?
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Matthew L" <owlnmole@...> wrote:
>
> I see your point, though several of the designs that Dynamite sells aren't so instant, either. But you may be right about not wanting to promote a design that might get tyro builders, or tyro sailors, in trouble.
>
> Personally, I always saw Storm Petrel as a fun little boat to keep at a mooring or dock for daysailing if you lived near deep water. (I grew up in Rhode Island on Narragansett Bay.)
>
> It's a comfort knowing that the extra clothes and lunch, and perhaps sleeping bags for camp cruising, would stay secure and dry. I think you could even work out an arrangement to use a portable toilet under that little house--a luxury in what is essentially a 16' skiff.
>
> And even if you never tested the "corked-bottle routine," that coffin-like cabin could be a place to take a nap, or wait out a drizzle warm and dry, or if you were VERY friendly with your significant other.... ;-p
I see your point, though several of the designs that Dynamite sells aren't so instant, either. But you may be right about not wanting to promote a design that might get tyro builders, or tyro sailors, in trouble.
Personally, I always saw Storm Petrel as a fun little boat to keep at a mooring or dock for daysailing if you lived near deep water. (I grew up in Rhode Island on Narragansett Bay.)
It's a comfort knowing that the extra clothes and lunch, and perhaps sleeping bags for camp cruising, would stay secure and dry. I think you could even work out an arrangement to use a portable toilet under that little house--a luxury in what is essentially a 16' skiff.
And even if you never tested the "corked-bottle routine," that coffin-like cabin could be a place to take a nap, or wait out a drizzle warm and dry, or if you were VERY friendly with your significant other.... ;-p
Personally, I always saw Storm Petrel as a fun little boat to keep at a mooring or dock for daysailing if you lived near deep water. (I grew up in Rhode Island on Narragansett Bay.)
It's a comfort knowing that the extra clothes and lunch, and perhaps sleeping bags for camp cruising, would stay secure and dry. I think you could even work out an arrangement to use a portable toilet under that little house--a luxury in what is essentially a 16' skiff.
And even if you never tested the "corked-bottle routine," that coffin-like cabin could be a place to take a nap, or wait out a drizzle warm and dry, or if you were VERY friendly with your significant other.... ;-p
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "c.ruzer" <c.ruzer@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Matthew, I was looking at the Storm Petrel for ages last week and it finally hit me as to the reasoning why Dynamite doesn't sell the plan even though it was done for him. I'll likely be proved wrong, but, ah ha, I saw that it's not one thing, though largely it is. It is, but in fiddly ways it isn't an Instant Boat. But that's only partly it. Yes, there's a lump of steel work, but that's insufficiently fiddly - not a lot more to that than the Instant Boat Sweet Pea slipping keel. However, take the deck beam to forward bulkhead join. And take those side butt straps passing through the deck, for instance. The rebates in the deck edge for the side butt straps aren't shown on the plan - fiddly for a tyro builder. And they lead to notions of integrity in a number of ways. It's to be sold most probably not as a non-Instant Boat, but as a INSTANT boat, but it's not that instant. It's to do the corked bottle act, for days, no leaks allowed - serious integrity required. Then, it may encourage Instant Boat people to sail offshore, likely far enough into dangers that Dynamite was all too familiar with - a serious integrity clash.
>
>
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Matthew L" <owlnmole@> wrote:
> >I also have plans for Storm Petrel <http://www.boatdesign.com/postings/Files/petrel.pdf> if I get really motivated...they use the same rig!
>
Matthew, I was looking at the Storm Petrel for ages last week and it finally hit me as to the reasoning why Dynamite doesn't sell the plan even though it was done for him. I'll likely be proved wrong, but, ah ha, I saw that it's not one thing, though largely it is. It is, but in fiddly ways it isn't an Instant Boat. But that's only partly it. Yes, there's a lump of steel work, but that's insufficiently fiddly - not a lot more to that than the Instant Boat Sweet Pea slipping keel. However, take the deck beam to forward bulkhead join. And take those side butt straps passing through the deck, for instance. The rebates in the deck edge for the side butt straps aren't shown on the plan - fiddly for a tyro builder. And they lead to notions of integrity in a number of ways. It's to be sold most probably not as a non-Instant Boat, but as a INSTANT boat, but it's not that instant. It's to do the corked bottle act, for days, no leaks allowed - serious integrity required. Then, it may encourage Instant Boat people to sail offshore, likely far enough into dangers that Dynamite was all too familiar with - a serious integrity clash.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Matthew L" <owlnmole@...> wrote:
>I also have plans for Storm Petrel <http://www.boatdesign.com/postings/Files/petrel.pdf> if I get really motivated...they use the same rig!
I second the recommendation for Zephyr <http://instantboats.com/zephyr.htm>, I have those plans and would definitely build one if I had the space to store a boat that big (not heavy, just long, so very easy to get on and off a trailer). Zephyr would be great fun and the length would make for a suprisingly fast boat in the right conditions. I also have plans for Storm Petrel <http://www.boatdesign.com/postings/Files/petrel.pdf> if I get really motivated...they use the same rig!
> Four people you say? How big are they? A small family perhaps as, say, the case was for Featherwind? There's a nice photo showing Dynamite with three inbetweens sailing a Zephyr. Looks like enough room for plenty more too. Dynamite's not even stretched-out sprawling either!
It's a shame, what's happened over at the SBF. Dave Carnell said some time after the business went to Thom as the Nutmeg that he still had a small run out stock of plans to dispose of himself. When they were all gone that would be the end of the $200 Sailboat adventure for him. He's still occaisionally seen around the traps, recent MAIB issue wasn't it, so an email to him might land you a plan set - if he still has any that is.
Four people you say? How big are they? A small family perhaps as, say, the case was for Featherwind? There's a nice photo showing Dynamite with three inbetweens sailing a Zephyr. Looks like enough room for plenty more too. Dynamite's not even stretched-out sprawling either! Old Brick will somehow take four large adults and a big dog! A Jinny wouldn't cost much more than Featherwind to build, but that would be a bit more than the $200.
Four people you say? How big are they? A small family perhaps as, say, the case was for Featherwind? There's a nice photo showing Dynamite with three inbetweens sailing a Zephyr. Looks like enough room for plenty more too. Dynamite's not even stretched-out sprawling either! Old Brick will somehow take four large adults and a big dog! A Jinny wouldn't cost much more than Featherwind to build, but that would be a bit more than the $200.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Trent" <milesevin@...> wrote:
>
> Also does anyone know where I can get plans for one? The Smallboatforum where the plans are advertised seems to be overrun with spam and the moderator doesn't answer his emails.
>
> OR
>
> Does anyone know of a similarly cheap, easy build that will accommodate four people? Thanks.
>
I have plans from both PB&F and from Dave Carnell. I started, but never completed the boat. The hull is the same in both designs, but Dave changed the sail plan to a lateen very similar to a Sunfish. (He did use a Sunfish rig at first.) I don't recall all the details, but I think he may have also changed the lee board and rudder to pivoting or kick-up designs like those used by Michalak, and also simplified some interior structural details. The Bolger design was sloop rigged and I think the mast had stays.
Some people really like the design, but I think you can do better. The hull is actually pretty small and probably not adequate for four people. I would suggest looking at some of the other Bolger instant boat designs avaialble from Payson and/or the Michalak designs. Michalak's Mayfly 16 is similar to Featherwind, but larger and more refined with floatation comparments and bench seating that would accomodate four people.
Just my opinion.
Regards
Rob
Some people really like the design, but I think you can do better. The hull is actually pretty small and probably not adequate for four people. I would suggest looking at some of the other Bolger instant boat designs avaialble from Payson and/or the Michalak designs. Michalak's Mayfly 16 is similar to Featherwind, but larger and more refined with floatation comparments and bench seating that would accomodate four people.
Just my opinion.
Regards
Rob
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Trent" <milesevin@...> wrote:
>
> Also does anyone know where I can get plans for one? The Smallboatforum where the plans are advertised seems to be overrun with spam and the moderator doesn't answer his emails.
>
> OR
>
> Does anyone know of a similarly cheap, easy build that will accommodate four people? Thanks.
>
Also does anyone know where I can get plans for one? The Smallboatforum where the plans are advertised seems to be overrun with spam and the moderator doesn't answer his emails.
OR
Does anyone know of a similarly cheap, easy build that will accommodate four people? Thanks.
OR
Does anyone know of a similarly cheap, easy build that will accommodate four people? Thanks.