Re: OLDSHOE

Joe

I agree that with no need to get anywhere, the hydrodynamics from overloading don't matter too much. I found that in chop or crossing a motorboat wake with more than two adults on board I would get the bow slamming into the waves and being slowed rather than riding over them. This was compounded by taking in large quantities of water through the bow step and consequently weighing the bow further down, tending to raise the stern. I know she's actually pretty safe, but the sensation of lots of water coming in is worrying to the passengers.

I am specially tempted to close the step as I have not actually used it at all. I find I can usually step in straight from the shore or jetty onto the top of the hatch. With any type of rasonable beach, she runs herself nicely up on the keel but keeps upright nicely with the tail floting flat. If boarding from the water, give me the motor cut out any time... Although with the motor in place, there isn't that much space.

Best regards,


David

Thanks David, The colors came from a can of deep green and a can of white -- industrial enamel. Deep for the topsides, mixed below the waterline, and more white for the sheer strip and interior. I like the interior light but with enough color to cut glare, easier on the eyes. I mixed a bunch of sample colors on a white card to choose the ones that looked best to me. Lancaster picked up my treatment for the bow with the curve painted at the top.

I did omit the hole for the bow, didn't like the look. In practice it didn't cause an inconvenience as I could get close enough to the beach to wade to the stern and climb aboard aided by the boomkin.

I would encourage keeping all drain holes open as designed. An accumulation of water in the wells could be a problem. Water entering the wells while underway never concerned me. I like the idea that rain can exit while in storage.

I see your point about overloading. One of my photos shows the bottom of the bow transom plowing a bit of water with four adults aboard, but what the heck, if they all want to take a spin on a nice day where's the harm. It will just be a bit slower.

Joe T

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "dir_cobb" <dir_cobb@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Joe
>
> I think I stole my colour scheme from you. I notice you blocked out the step in the bow transom. Did you keep the drainage holes in the fore and aft wells? I am tempret to plug the front ones.
>
> I find she takes water on board in either or both wells with more than three people on board. It is manageable and she remains stable and safe even with a lot of wind. However, I feel she is definietely more a three adult than a four adult boat. It isn't a question of space...
>
> Matthew:
>
> My concern with letting the kids loose in Oldshoe on their own is mainly that she is a heavy boat and liable to damage the other person if they hit something. It's a bit like giving a youth an ex-military jeep to learn to drive in. They're unlikely to come to much harm but could do a lot of damage to someone else. We don't usually teach 10 year olds to drive cars, whereas we can teach them to sail. In any case, I agree that Oldshoe takes some beating as a "modern" day Swallow provided the kids have learnt to sail properly and be responsible. Better drowned than duffers, if not duffers, won't drown.
>
> David
> Santiago, Chile
>

Hi Joe

I think I stole my colour scheme from you. I notice you blocked out the step in the bow transom. Did you keep the drainage holes in the fore and aft wells? I am tempret to plug the front ones.

I find she takes water on board in either or both wells with more than three people on board. It is manageable and she remains stable and safe even with a lot of wind. However, I feel she is definietely more a three adult than a four adult boat. It isn't a question of space...

Matthew:

My concern with letting the kids loose in Oldshoe on their own is mainly that she is a heavy boat and liable to damage the other person if they hit something. It's a bit like giving a youth an ex-military jeep to learn to drive in. They're unlikely to come to much harm but could do a lot of damage to someone else. We don't usually teach 10 year olds to drive cars, whereas we can teach them to sail. In any case, I agree that Oldshoe takes some beating as a "modern" day Swallow provided the kids have learnt to sail properly and be responsible. Better drowned than duffers, if not duffers, won't drown.

David
Santiago, Chile

hmmmmmm.... that puts a whole new meaning to the term: "rail meat".. no ballast issues there "on my lead, all ten of you on the windward side "hike out"!!

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen" <jhkohnen@...> wrote:
>
> Those photos sure show how room an Oldshoe is! But I was thinking about a
> daysailer for taking along a _lot_ of friends. Like this. <g>
>
>http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Photos/JamesSamuel/
>
> If you're only going to be using a boat for daysailing, why waste a lot of
> the sprawling room with a cabin?
>
> I'm not actually thinking about getting, or building, an Oldshoe or
> daysailer Micro. The daysailer Micro was just a result of boat dreaming,
> which I do a lot of. <g>
>
> On Fri, 08 Oct 2010 23:04:01 -0700, Joe T wrote:
>
> > John K
> >
> > These photos show four full size folks sailing my Oldshoe while laid
> > back in sprawling comfort. It was sold to a lady in Seattle a few years
> > ago. Several attempts to communicate with her were fruitless. I suspect
> > it could be available if you are interested. I'm not sure but I seem to
> > recall you are in that area. I really am wonder what has become of it.
> > It's not like selling an old car, this was my creation! If interested in
> > pursuing this, I can provide info by direct email. If you are in Seattle
> > you could at least go see it so I know how she is. You might be able to
> > buy it for reasonably.
> >
> >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/photos/album/1657882815/pic/list
>
> --
> John (jkohnen@...)
> Boats, like whiskey, are all good. (R. D. "Pete" Culler)
>

Those photos sure show how room an Oldshoe is! But I was thinking about a
daysailer for taking along a _lot_ of friends. Like this. <g>

http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Photos/JamesSamuel/

If you're only going to be using a boat for daysailing, why waste a lot of
the sprawling room with a cabin?

I'm not actually thinking about getting, or building, an Oldshoe or
daysailer Micro. The daysailer Micro was just a result of boat dreaming,
which I do a lot of. <g>

On Fri, 08 Oct 2010 23:04:01 -0700, Joe T wrote:

> John K
>
> These photos show four full size folks sailing my Oldshoe while laid
> back in sprawling comfort. It was sold to a lady in Seattle a few years
> ago. Several attempts to communicate with her were fruitless. I suspect
> it could be available if you are interested. I'm not sure but I seem to
> recall you are in that area. I really am wonder what has become of it.
> It's not like selling an old car, this was my creation! If interested in
> pursuing this, I can provide info by direct email. If you are in Seattle
> you could at least go see it so I know how she is. You might be able to
> buy it for reasonably.
>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/photos/album/1657882815/pic/list

--
John (jkohnen@...)
Boats, like whiskey, are all good. (R. D. "Pete" Culler)

Love that.

I wonder why Phil didn't use that sort of typical paint contrast scheme on Wish II instead of 'dazzle camoflage'? Just to tear it down some more? He didn't 'dazzle' on most other wall sided designs with little or no profile sheer, or those with some reverse sheer. He added a moulding or two with just the right line and showed the paint contrast between it and the prominent boot stripe to lovely effect.

This can be seen in the cute looking Cynthia J catboat, a design PB&F wrote where the cabin was a hindrance to perfomance in its actual use as mostly a daysailer. Remove the deck and extend the seating for more comfort for six, more power, and better trim.

Rick added water ballast to his Cynthia J.

The profile shows deeper curvature aft on shorter length, and bulkheads at relatively the same positions as the Storm Petrel profile, so why not a shallow external ballast keel similar to that of the Storm Petrel? The large offset between the keel attachments gives the junction strength, and the keel strengthens the boat. A perky catboat Cynthia J daysailer for six then?

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Joe T" <scsbmsjoe@...> wrote:
>
> John K
>
> These photos show four full size folks sailing my Oldshoe while laid back in sprawling comfort.http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/photos/album/1657882815/pic/list
>
> Joe T, just can't let go.

Hi Joe,

I did try to communicate with the lady and like you, got no response. Its hard to say where she is or your Old Shoe. Yes, we can never truly let go.

Your pictures clearly show the ability of the Oldshoe to carry cargo and still have reserve bouyancey. Truly the cockpit of a 30ft sailboat and the comfort as well.

Great design.

Regards,

Dennis Oldshoe "Pearl"
Bellingham, WA

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Joe T" <scsbmsjoe@...> wrote:
>
> John K
>
> These photos show four full size folks sailing my Oldshoe while laid back in sprawling comfort. It was sold to a lady in Seattle a few years ago. Several attempts to communicate with her were fruitless. I suspect it could be available if you are interested. I'm not sure but I seem to recall you are in that area. I really am wonder what has become of it. It's not like selling an old car, this was my creation! If interested in pursuing this, I can provide info by direct email. If you are in Seattle you could at least go see it so I know how she is. You might be able to buy it for reasonably.
>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/photos/album/1657882815/pic/list
>
> Joe T, just can't let go.
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen" <jhkohnen@> wrote:
> >
> > I've sometimes thought that building a Micro without a cabin, just a big
> > cockpit like Oldshoe's, would make a nice daysailer for taking friends out.
> >
> > --
> > John (jkohnen@)
>

If ever I have a chance to set my kids loose on a lake with some islands to play "Swallows and Amazons" without an adult, Oldshoe would be the perfect boat for it. I can't think of anything else that small that would be so seaworthy and so much fun.

John K

These photos show four full size folks sailing my Oldshoe while laid back in sprawling comfort. It was sold to a lady in Seattle a few years ago. Several attempts to communicate with her were fruitless. I suspect it could be available if you are interested. I'm not sure but I seem to recall you are in that area. I really am wonder what has become of it. It's not like selling an old car, this was my creation! If interested in pursuing this, I can provide info by direct email. If you are in Seattle you could at least go see it so I know how she is. You might be able to buy it for reasonably.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/photos/album/1657882815/pic/list

Joe T, just can't let go.

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen" <jhkohnen@...> wrote:
>
> I've sometimes thought that building a Micro without a cabin, just a big
> cockpit like Oldshoe's, would make a nice daysailer for taking friends out.
>
> --
> John (jkohnen@...)

Four big men andtwobig dogs. Plus assorted cats!

I've sometimes thought that building a Micro without a cabin, just a big
cockpit like Oldshoe's, would make a nice daysailer for taking friends out.

On Wed, 06 Oct 2010 19:01:42 -0700, Nels wrote:

> Speaking of OLDSHOE. I recall an old MAIB article regarding a couple who
> built an OLDSHOE, but lengthened it, and did some other things to the
> point PCB&F suggested it might have been a lot simpler to just build a
> MICRO.
> ...


--
John (jkohnen@...)
I have no truck with lettuce, cabbage, and similar chlorophyll.
Any dietician will tell you that a running foot of apple strudel
contains four times the vitamins of a bushel of beans. (S. J.
Perelman)

Speaking of OLDSHOE. I recall an old MAIB article regarding a couple who
built an OLDSHOE, but lengthened it, and did some other things to the
point PCB&F suggested it might have been a lot simpler to just build a
MICRO.

I don't have that article handy but what caught my attention was Mr.
Bolger mentioning it was a highly under-appreciated design and there was
some thought of adding a Birdwatcher-style cabin to it. So that got me
to thinking about a removable hard "slot-top" like on SUPERMOUSE shown
in BWAOM (Page 35).

Obviously the top would have be a bit lower foreward to clear the foot
of the leg-o-mutton main, but still retain sitting headroom for two aft
with the slot closed off.

This would result in a nice little "sleeps two" camper for a couple and
still retain the option of a daysailor for four in "rocking chair"
comfort.

2 hp outboard and the option of a yuloh used from the aft section of the
slot. I would on modify the forward "dry storage" area with a fold down
door to allow the porta-potti to slide aft for usage under the topper.

Would it replace a Micro for Myles? Maybe not, but would be fun to
imagine if one wants to narrow down the fleet. Nice building and
visualizing site here thanks to Denis:

http://www.solopublications.com/saillanc.html

Nels